Blue Collar Business Podcast
Welcome to the Blue Collar Business Podcast with Sy Kirby. Dive deep into the world of hands-on entrepreneurship and the gritty side of making things happen. Join us for actionable tips on scaling your blue-collar business, managing teams, and staying ahead in an ever-evolving market. We'll also discuss the latest industry trends and innovations that could impact your bottom line. If you're passionate about the blue-collar world and eager to learn from those who've thrived in it, this podcast is a must-listen. Stay tuned for engaging conversations and real-world advice that can take your blue-collar business to new heights.
Blue Collar Business Podcast
Ep. 35 - Buying a GC Company at 30: What They Don’t Tell You
What happens when an architecture graduate decides he'd rather build buildings than design them? For Trent Hanna, President of SSI Northwest Arkansas, this realization launched a journey through construction superintendency and project management before culminating in the purchase of a 50-year-old general contracting company.
Trent's story is a masterclass in business transformation. Walking into a company still using carbon paper for purchase orders and operating without company credit cards, he faced the delicate challenge of modernizing operations while preserving the expertise of long-standing employees—including a superintendent with over 30 years of experience. His approach balanced respect for legacy with practical innovations that made everyone's jobs easier.
The conversation dives deep into the realities of commercial construction that rarely get discussed publicly. Trent openly addresses the extended payment terms plaguing the industry (sometimes beyond 120 days), the challenge of maintaining cash flow while satisfying both clients and subcontractors, and the increasing competition from out-of-town contractors flooding into Northwest Arkansas. His perspective on prioritizing reputation over size—aiming to be the contractor clients will "wait for" rather than the biggest in town—offers a refreshing counterpoint to growth-at-all-costs business philosophies.
For anyone feeling stuck in their career, Trent's advice is refreshingly direct: just do it. Take time to think strategically, develop your ideas, and execute. While making the initial leap is challenging, he notes the surprising number of people who emerge to support your journey once you commit to it. His experience demonstrates how combining architectural knowledge with hands-on construction expertise creates a unique perspective that can transform an entire business.
Whether you're managing a construction company, working your way through the ranks, or contemplating an entrepreneurial leap, Trent's insights on balancing tradition with innovation provide valuable guidance for navigating today's complex construction landscape.
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Hey guys, welcome to the Blue Collar Business Podcast where we discuss the realest, rawest, most relevant stories and strategies behind building every corner of a blue collar business. I'm your host, cy Kirby, and I want to help you in what it took me trial and error and a whole lot of money to learn the information that no one in this industry is willing to share. Whether you're under that shade tree or have your hard hat on, let's expand your toolbox. Welcome back, guys, to another episode of the blue collar business podcast brought to you and sponsored by this beautiful studio we are in today here at podcastvideoscom in the Rogers, arkansas location. You guys know I have been joined forces with them for almost a solid year now. Love this team, love their studio. They always are super helpful about getting guests connected If there's any type of schedule changes. Navigating to folks that run a business and trying to get them in the same room at the same time can be extremely tough sometimes Just doing a project, let alone trying to do a podcast or something out of the ordinary. So shout out to those guys here at podcastvideoscom. Today I've got a special guest and I think we have done another General Contractor episode here at BlueCollarBusinessPodcastcom. You can go check that out.
Speaker 1:But that was more of a resi stepping into light commercial, into the commercial game. Today I'm bringing you a little bit of a different show. We've been trying to line this up for like a year, as I was just talking about it. This is a true blue historical commercial GC and today I brought to you guys Trent Hanna, the president of SSI Northwest Arkansas. He is a younger generation guy like myself, trying to figure out this whole project world and the well, that's how we've always done it and trying to navigate. Well, that's probably not the most efficient and profitable. So we're going to get to hear a little bit of his insight today. And he's got a degree in architecture. That kind of blew my mind when he said that. I was like I did not hear that, but um worked off in in the general contractor world before before stepping up and and and buying in an ownership of this uh section of the company and man, uh, kudos to you for doing it, but furthermore, welcome, welcome, brother. Thank you so much. Glad to be here. Thanks for having me. Dude, it's been uh, it's been like I don't know, probably six or eight months.
Speaker 1:I gotta say trent reached out after hearing the first I don't know first couple episodes that come out and just shared some insight, and I appreciate all you guys behind the scenes that are shooting me an email, dropping a little message on the website hey Cy, look this episode. I never thought about it like that. That helped me and that added some value into what I'm doing. That's all I'm trying to do here, guys and try and give different perspectives in a audience manner that you guys can understand. That we can understand, that I can understand. There's a lot of folks that come in understand that we can understand, that I can understand. There's a lot of folks that come in here speak a totally different industry language than I do and I can't even normally compute their language. You know what I mean, I know what I mean. So, but today I have been looking forward to this. Trent reached out and said man, I really like what you're doing. I'd love to jump on there when you get some time, and he was actually busy the last three or four months, holidays, etc. So, man, first question I got for you, let's take it all back. Give us kind of the rundown of the steps.
Speaker 1:Number one why did you want to go into architecture school. My guy, start there for us, you bet, um, I'm a northwest arkansas native. Um graduated from west fork high school and, hey, west fork's a fantastic school. But these smaller schools around here, at least when I was going to high school, I mean, there wasn't a huge emphasis on careers out there, you know, and they brought in, you know, for career days. They typically brought in parents of some of the students and they spoke for a little bit and just kind of gave their spiel. And at West Fork anyway, I feel like there's three big ones Swepco, ozarks Electric, a teacher of some sort or Washington County Sheriff, those were the three. No man, if you went to West Fork, that was kind of your area and obviously there's nothing wrong with those, but none of those interested me.
Speaker 1:So then you know, the other side about small schools too is they push college, college, college. You know you've got to go to college, and so that's what I did, started college and I started reading the whole list of all these hundreds of majors that they had to choose from. I have no earthly idea what I want to do, and so in high school I tore my ACL a couple of times and so I had to go to physical therapy quite a bit. So I was, like you know, physical therapist that sounds like so jumped into that, started off with going towards the biology route in college and then realized, real quick, this isn't for me. So kind of looked around, looked at engineering there was a couple in the agricultural school there that I looked at Ag business yeah, ag business, supportive in the area, ag physics, stuff like that and I thought, you know, there could be a healthy career on that. But nothing really just sparked my interest until I was like architecture.
Speaker 1:I can remember as a kid laying on the floor with my dad looking at floor plans of houses. You know that's just what one thing that he did a lot and I thought, you know, that would be really, really cool. And so I interviewed him in school, talked to the dean, we, you know it went well and thought this is it, this is what I want to do. Well, it was like four years later I don't remember exactly what I was doing, but I remember having this like aha moment I'm like I don't want to do this, you know, and I'm like I've already paid all this money, I've already gotten, you know, gone this far in school and I can remember talking about a fiance, now wise, I was like I really don't know that, I want to draw this stuff all day, I want to build it. And she was like what do you mean? I was like I want to be a disruption.
Speaker 1:And she's like construction, you know, and thinking like you know, and I can just tell like, um, you think of somebody, construction, you're thinking dirty jeans, tool bags, you know all that kind of stuff, and there's this stigma, yeah, and working in construction. I was like I'm like, yeah, I want to work in construction. And, um, she was like, uh, like okay, what does that look like? And I felt like, you know, just her looking at me was like, okay, what's wrong with you? Yeah, what's going on, it's a major question, it is absolutely. And so, um, you know, I just her looking at me was like okay, what's wrong with you? Yeah, it's going on, it's a major question, it is Absolutely. And so, um, you know, I kind of laid out what I wanted to do and I remember, in that same conversation or shortly thereafter, I told her I said I want to be my own general contractor.
Speaker 1:And you know, I said there's more to more to just working for somebody. I said I want to be my own general. That's a huge statement, I know, and I had no idea what it meant. No idea, fair enough, I just said it because I knew I wanted to work for myself. And so it was around that time I think I was working at Battery, outfitters and Rogers, just kind of working my way through school. I've worked all. I mean, I worked 40 hours, probably most of the time through school.
Speaker 1:And so I got a call from nathan ogden, owner of pickett, uh, and who's they're out of favor, local general contractor, and shout out we've done some work. Oh, yeah, pickett's great people and company. I think they focus mainly on multifamily now, but when I was there we were doing all sorts of stuff, and so, anyway, uh, he called me and asked if I'd be interested in a superintendent position, assistant superintendent, superintendent position, kind of hybrid deal, fair enough. And I thought, okay, let's talk about it and see what it comes in. So, anyway, interviewed there with Will, and a couple days later he offered me a job and he said when can you start? And I said man, I'll start right now, you know, whenever you want.
Speaker 1:So I got on it and was ready to rock and roll, and my first project was an apartment complex in South Fayette and I had no idea what I was doing. I was just in the water just trying to swim, you know, trying to stay afloat, and so that's kind of how Civil as well. Oh, yeah, everything, oh. And so it was like that's how I learned. The commercial world that's how I learned was just tossed in, say, here you go, help get it done. The ones that survive, normally Best stuff. That's the way to learn. It sucks. I'm with you. It's terrible, it's brutal. You don't go home ever motivated. Try to show up motivated and you're demotivated by 805. Pretty quick, 100%, I agree. Pretty cool, exactly 100, I agree. That's that's how it was.
Speaker 1:On that one too, it was just all hands on deck, get the job done, kind of thing, and it was, you know, seven days a week, uh, multifamily, just constant. And um, I can remember we just got married, my wife and I. I would come home in our one bedroom apartment and it would be like seven o'clock after working, you know, 15 hours that day, or whatever it was, and she's like do you still want to do this? Yeah, I do, I do. It's crazy, isn't it? I promise yeah. And so anyway, you know, fast forward a little bit, I worked my way up a little bit and uh, at picket, and then some other companies as well, and then here we are, we uh.
Speaker 1:So a little a limelight insight me and trent met on a project. Um, it was super funny how we ended up with the project. Honestly it was a utility line but it was done through a fire contractor and it was like kind of just a divine intervention moment. And then shout out to Jonathan, because I met Jonathan as well and we did great work out there and we just kind of liked you boys. And what was the older gentleman's name? George Waldo. There you go, waldo, that guy. You probably learned a thing or two from that guy. Oh, absolutely, I may not have liked it, but I learned a thing, I learned a thing or two.
Speaker 1:And we were still green walking through that kind of market before we were nowhere near ready to be handling full civil site projects, let alone dirt or total right. But at that moment we were still navigating. But we had done the whole GC game. You know, get to work whatever for a little while at that point. And so I think you guys saw, hopefully, some success from that, but I met Trent there. I think you guys saw, hopefully, some success from that, but I met Trent there. But 100% been encouraging through this whole transition to see you hit 20 under 20, right, that was kind of a cool little achievement. I kind of gave him hell over it because I didn't get nominated for that or anything you know, but anyways. But congrats there, dude, that's awesome. But circling back, so now we've got an architecture degree and you're dead set on being a general contractor.
Speaker 1:Um, even after picket, you saw like or you know previous work history, you saw what. Maybe did you see the full lens of the tippy top before you got to the tippy top? How about that? I don't think so. Um, I don't either. It was kind of like, um, you know, again, I had this dream like I want to work in construction. I had no idea what it looked like to get there and I don't even think that I'm there yet, probably will never get there, um, but it's like I had this dream and I'm like okay, what, how do I achieve that one? What does this look like? And, and essentially I just worked my butt off. I worked as hard as I could tried to soak up as much information as I could, because that's one thing where I feel like me and there's a few other architects that work in construction now specifically, where we kind of look at things a little differently and it sets us apart in a sense a little bit, because architecture school is fantastic. It's a fantastic program. It's a very hard program.
Speaker 1:What school I went to? The Fay Jones School of Architecture. You bet U of A and good, good school and so. But they teach you, obviously, how to design. They don't teach you how to build, and so drawing something on paper is one thing. Understanding how things go together was part of that, and then understanding how you do it, yeah, how you execute the plan, let alone profitably, exactly more efficiently. Different, yeah, efficiently is the key. It's completely different. And so that's one thing where, like I probably start, I probably graduated and started working construction, um, with a little bit of a mindset, as I'm going to be pretty good at this because I can draw it. Yeah, it doesn't mean a thing, you know, that doesn't mean a absolute thing, and so, um, you know it, it doesn't translate over into the construction world, and so I really, you know, I felt like I was starting from scratch. Um, even though new grad, you know, five-year degree from the U of A, I was starting from scratch Five-year degree.
Speaker 1:Did you guys hear that Architecture Is engineering the same? Do you know? I think it's four years. Okay, wow, what's the extra year for? You don't know either. No, I do. There's a lot of information though, a lot of studios and stuff. Oh, my gosh, gosh. Well, you know. Okay, let's talk about your very and please be as private or as open as you want to be here.
Speaker 1:But you know, navigating, walking into an opportunity that you had with SSI. You got your magic opportunity that you wanted. It wasn't just something that one in the GC world bringing one up from the ground up. It takes a decade, but being able to navigate into that opportunity. I'd love to hear a little bit about that and what SSI has been for. 40, 50? Started in 1969.
Speaker 1:Well, 52 years, my mom's 52. So, yeah, tell us a little about that. You betcha, 52 years, that's my mom, my mom's 52. So, um, yeah, tell us a little. Yeah, you betcha, um.
Speaker 1:So you know, after I left picket, the reason I left picket was, um, that I found out that my wife was pregnant and it was important for me for her to stay at home. You know, I was like, okay, that's, that's what I want to make happen, I want to find a way to do it and, um, just on my income it was just wasn't enough. So so I had an opportunity at another GC and I took it. And that was what kind of got us to the point where I'm like, okay, we can, we can do this. And so, you know, I worked at other GCs and saw things that I liked, saw things that I didn't like, and just, you know, I agree with every business, you know, and you can't really change that until you get to the point where you're like, okay, I'll run this business myself, yep, then I can make those changes.
Speaker 1:And so it was honestly all just luck of the draw, right place, right time, this whole SSI thing, and through a mutual connection to Leo, the former owner of SSI, who is 80, I believe he's 85 this year, think the world of him. I still talk to him all the time. He still comes up for lunch every once in a while. We chat and just catch up. He's a really, really genuine guy. Mutual connection with him, you know he was, he was trying to get out of the company, just sell it just because he was tired of it.
Speaker 1:Because, um, and if you don't know, this ssi started in fort smith years and years ago um, and so I back in 69. It's still like a year later, year or two later, they opened up this office up here northwest arkansas, just as a branch office, um, satellite, yeah, just satellite office. You know, there's a lot of work up here. So he just just brought a satellite office up there. There's not a lot of work up here. I don't know what y'all think. Stay away, stay away.
Speaker 1:Anyway, in the 80s I think it was in 84, he actually incorporated this office to where it was its own standalone legal entity. Okay, he just happened to own this one and the Fort Smith one. I don't know if it was tax reasons or whatever it was behind that, but I'm glad he did, because I wouldn't be here if he didn't, and so so up, I mean, from 84 on, it was its own standalone company and people always think that, you know, it was just a branch office. But no, it was its own deal, own separate contractor's license and everything, wow. And so anyway, fast forward to, you know, 23,.
Speaker 1:I had a mutual connection with him and he wanted to stay at that Fort Smith office Leo did and work down there, but he just wanted to get rid of the Northwest Arkansas office. And so we talked money, we talked you know what it would look like on paper, things like that and he initially said, ok, let's, how about you buy in 20 percent for 100 bucks? And I was like, wow, okay, you know, that's more of just a gesture, a gift than anything, in that. You know that, right, there is what really just said okay, this guy's genuine, he means what he says, he wants, you know, he wants this thing to go into good hands. And again, we talked several times before we, what a good point. And so, yeah, for a hundred dollars I bought 20 of the company and was a, you know, shareholder in the company at that point.
Speaker 1:And, um, then it kind of gave me skin in the game, you know, it gave me a lot of motive to real mindset switch. And it really does. It's crazy, you know, a hundred dollar bill slid across the table but it's like, okay, this is now my baby, you know, I gotta, I gotta tend to this thing, you know. And so it does, your mindset uh, shifts a little bit. And then, so you know, it was, that was in january of 23, I guess. And then, um, obviously, just you know, bought the company out throughout the year and got got to the point where, you know, uh, officially made the purchase of the remainder of the shares that he had.
Speaker 1:And then, um, how was that feeling when it actually happened? I know it's getting to the point I've never been more scared in my life. But that day after that, I think I slept like a baby for a solid day. It was like, okay, I can breathe. But then it was like, okay, training wheels are off, yeah, let's go, she's all yours, let's go. And so that was. You know, I had like a day, maybe two days. It was like, okay, this is done, I can breathe. And then it was like, okay, we're gonna go. You know we can't stop, we're gonna hit the ground running. And so ever since then, that's what I feel like it's been. It's just been constant. You know, just hit the ground running, just, uh, trying to gain traction a little bit.
Speaker 1:Because, um, not nothing negative against ssi formally at all, um, but in northwest Arkansas for the past 15, 20 years or so, there had been. A lot of people said that they were just, they thought SSI shut down, it was very minimal, they didn't know that it was really a thing anymore, maybe a couple projects here and there. And you know, I look at that and I'm like, okay, you know, there could have been several things. And again, I have been several things and again I don't know most of the backstory on it. But, um, uh, it's northwest arkansas.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, you know, especially over the last 50, exactly years exactly, and we've in this office, has done a ton of stuff. Uh, there's a building just right up the road here, harvey pediatric. It's a big, yeah, a big, pediatric center there, and marlon blackwell shout out to him on this one. He's a fantastic architect, he was the architect of record on that and it's a stunning building. Well, our office built that and, uh, people don't realize that and, uh, you know, I kind of want to revamp that history a little bit. You show some cool stuff, so let's, let's show that. You know, let's showcase that, yeah, and so that's kind of been my goal as of late is, uh, to try to broadcast what we, you know what was done in the past, what we can do now, and here's, here's why we can do it well, man.
Speaker 1:So obviously, with buying into a company like you have, man, talk about some of those processes that was non-efficient, like, oh my god, you guys are still doing it this way, not to shed any bad limelight whatsoever, but just to open up maybe that audience guy sitting out there going I ain't changing these young pups, but he's listening for a reason, you know what I mean. Maybe how you've navigated some of that change because I'm assuming you still have some previous employees, exactly so they're used to these systems how you're navigating that change, because, from my experience, is extremely difficult. Once you embody some culture and embody processes or lack thereof, and then trying to change everybody, man, you start seeing the shift and people start just, you know, dropping like flies. Yeah, no, absolutely. I think the two biggest things that I've done that were curveballs to some of the employees, but after doing them they're like, oh, this makes more sense. Two things One formerly nobody had a credit card in the company.
Speaker 1:There were no credit cards out. So if you needed to run the lows to, you know, get a drill bit, you couldn't do it. Yeah, you're the JC, you're the catch all. Exactly. You know you have to call the office. Hey, I need the drill bit. Well, you know, either use your personal card, bring in a receipt and get a reimbursement, or whatever the case may be.
Speaker 1:Um and so that that was the first one. And uh, you know, leo the, the former owner, you know, I don't. I don't know what the mindset was there. I think it was more trying to control costs with, with not giving credit cards, but I've actually found that spending stay the same, like we're not spending money. You thought it was. If you need to go to Lowe's, you just it's convenient, you have credit cards, swipe it, you're good to go, just keep track of your receipts. And then the receipts. That's the next thing that I changed too. So it's kind of mind-blowing.
Speaker 1:This office still used carbon paper, and if you don't know what carbon paper is, they used carbon paper for all their purchase orders, and so I completely understand the thought process of what they were doing. I really do, but I don't know if you've ever priced carbon paper. It's unbelievably expensive. You never even thought about it. You can't really get it, and so we have cases and this stuff at the office, and because they buy it in bulk, and I'm looking at that like they spent so much money on carbon paper. So that you know, you can have a purchase order here, write it and then you can have a copy of it over here.
Speaker 1:Well, what I've asked all of my employees to do is, if you go to the gas station to get fuel, you're going to get a receipt. Well, there's an app called Adobe Scan. There you go and it's a free app. You literally take a picture of it, it converts it to a PDF and you email it to our accountant. Bingo, it's as simple as that and you can throw the receipt away. I don't care. Right, we all have that system.
Speaker 1:But I need to shed some light there. We're actually going through kind of the same, not really the transition. Ours was here's a credit card, just get what you need. And then spending did get a little wonky because there wasn't as much tracking, and so now we've gone to a PO system projects, but it's not really it is. It was an approval system and we were a lot more stricter on it because it was so wide band, but now we've got it under control.
Speaker 1:If somebody needs something and they know the material, I'll say hey, just grabbing this, throwing it on the Amex or whatever case it may be, get an approval. Yep Good, they know the invoice is coming or the receipts coming so they can track it. But it's so important guys, if you're not sitting in that ownership role, important guys, if you're not sitting in that ownership role. I know receipts you get hounded on all the time. But the faster the estimators, the production managers, the president, everybody up top can see live time tracking to be able to make decisions, to maybe benefit your position, that you're sitting in, if they can actually see live black and white what's going on.
Speaker 1:So, and it starts with making sure all your receipts are turned in or making sure that email oh man, I forgot on a tuesday. And then you got sally in there going. Well, who got fuel on a tuesday? I can you call someone you know it's like yes, ma'am, you've got to, because you understand you're the one asking miss sally to make sure she reports who doesn't? It's just frustrating.
Speaker 1:But I was just letting you guys know out there, man, that the labor tracking and the cost tracking know your cost. Um, I just wanted to highlight that real quick. But man, that's crazy. Not even nobody, not a single soul. I had a credit card, okay, um, but it was one of those deals where, you know, even if I had to go to lowe's, I would have to call and say, hey, you know, I'm victory lowe's this gave 20 or whatever it is. Uh-huh, I have to go buy this. Well, do we really need it? Well, yeah, we do. You know, when you found the job. So, um, but you know, again, there's.
Speaker 1:I don't think there's anything wrong with that, I think there's just a more efficient way of doing it. And what I've told the guys is like, you know, you know, like my superintendents, they are tasked with getting the job done. If it's going to cost 20 bucks to get the job done, get the job done. If it's going to cost 20,000, let's talk about it. You know, let's, let's chat about that for a little bit. But, uh, you know, I'm not going to sit there and bark at, you know, 20, 50 if it's, if it's going to help push the job, 100, because in today's world, with supply chain issues, all this kind of stuff, uh, our number one goal is, you know, customer satisfaction. It's, you know, profitability. Profitability comes, but customer satisfaction is how you get the repeat business. So if we can show our clients that we are really trying to push, then that's the number one goal. And if it costs $20, it costs $20.
Speaker 1:It's just so different from your side of the table on the GC perspective than it is. You know, don't get me wrong, we had talked a little beforehand. How you know, I say here on the channel, all the time go on or negotiate it, if you can bypass the general talking to my dirt guys. But you know, anybody that's helping build that, building, having that relationship. And I wrote that down because isn't it funny? I talk about it every single episode, isn't that funny?
Speaker 1:You had a relationship with a guy. That a guy had a relationship with just at a divine moment of time and said, hey, I really want that, oh really. And then here you are. It's insane. It's it's treating Number one if you're in a customer relationship, yes, there's bad customers out there, but treating that customer with the mindset of, oh, they've got another project coming. I better not just hit a homer on this one. You know what I mean. Okay, if we hit a double, oh, we barely got the first base. We thought we were going to hit a double. It all comes, but they've got another one coming and to get. That's how we look at you guys.
Speaker 1:But at the same time, you know it's such an awkward conversation because I don't have to view it like that. You know what I mean. There's always don't I do, but not to the retrospective level of, pardon me, what you guys have to, man and um, blue collar performance marketing. These guys are behind the scenes on the cyclone side, helping the YouTube channel, helping our social media presence, touching our website, doing some retractions, additions and really giving me that full package strategy. If you guys are looking for somebody or have questions about who I'm going to ask questions to, it's Blue Collar Performance Marketing. You can get it at bcperformancemarketingcom, backslash BCcbpodcast. They're going to give you an entire complimentary on them overview of your website, your marketing strategy and campaign that you've got going on right now. Have a discovery call with them. Find out some of your pain points and what maybe you would like to see results from. So check them out, guys over at bcperformancemarketingcom.
Speaker 1:Sorry, trent, where were we? Bubba? That's where I was just talking about man. You've navigated every single position on your way up this GC climb, obviously working in the business. We were just talking about jumping in a skid, steer a dozer and spending eight, 10 hours. But where did you find your strengths and weaknesses? As you're I mean being at the top I've got some weaknesses that I just wish I didn't have. You know what I mean, but I do. And you navigated each and every role, maybe your favorite position, maybe your least position and here you are now. You know yeah, you bet yeah.
Speaker 1:So I started off working essentially as a superintendent, assistant superintendent, you know, just really just cutting my teeth in the commercial world, and I absolutely fell in love working, and so this is kind of the beauty of construction Every position is a little different. It's like as a superintendent, you're focused on one project. Typically, maybe you have a side little project on the side and you're trying to knock out as well, but your main focus is one project and that says a lot. Now you can really channel your focus into that thing and know every detail about that job. And that's really what drew me to being a superintendent. And you know I loved it because you were involved with the subs every day. You got to play on equipment. Occasionally we're on a GC side, you know. Typically we sub all that out, but you know, every once in a while you can play on some equipment, which is always fun, and so I really fell in love with that.
Speaker 1:And then it was, I guess about a year and a half or so later I was brought into the office to help with some estimating that they were doing, but also some project management, specifically that school, that where we actually met on that Prairie Grove Middle School there, and so I was brought in as a PM on that, but then kind of an on-site project manager as well, as it needs further into progression there. And so, bouncing from position to position, I feel like project management is kind of where I had. My aha moment is where I call it like everything kind of clicked, like what I was doing and because in the field, you know, I knew, I knew what my job was, but I didn't always know what the project manager was doing behind the scenes, right, and then so, um, as I transitioned more into that project manager role, I'm like, oh, this, this might be why he couldn't answer the phone 20 times today, you know. And so, uh, it kind of it was my aha moment and that's really. The other folks fell more in love with construction. I absolutely loved it and um, and that was actually at commerce construction where um cat was really really they're fantastic, yeah, they're awesome, awesome company. Um, that's kind of where I was like, okay, training wheels are off in this role. Um, I was kind of doing my own thing, right, and the way they operate. There is a business model that I really do enjoy and I would love to have our office kind of mimic that, as a project manager, you take the estimate, you know, you meet with the client.
Speaker 1:You start out with what they want. You estimate the job. You know, once the contract's executed if it goes that far hopefully it does then you actually manage the project and the books after that. And I think that some companies don't do that. Where they have a full-time estimator, there's nothing wrong with that whatsoever. But I think the beauty of managing a project that you estimated, you know what money's in there, you know where it's at and you know if you get to a point on the job where you have to rob Peter to pay Paul, so to speak, within the budget. You know where you've got fluff, where you're going to be, you know you can wiggle on in certain areas and that makes it so much easier instead of going.
Speaker 1:Oh, you know, let me call the estimator. What, what's this? What's this here? You know what's this cost code. You know what it is Cause y'all did it. Now it's not right. Well, that's your fault, you can't blame these. There ain't no hiding. Exactly so keeps everybody honest, makes it more efficient.
Speaker 1:I really liked that. And so at Commerce, that's kind of where everything just clicked and I truly fell in love with projects that we had obviously multiple. That one time I got fairly good at juggling. You know multiple projects and it was awesome. That's something I still navigate and struggle with today is juggling. You know all the different hats, but yeah, that's kind of where that's probably my favorite role was more project management.
Speaker 1:And you know Nick Peters, who was on the podcast, who we talked to quite a bit, and that's actually because I watched that podcast. I'm going to try to develop a business relationship with him and his team now so that you know, thank you for that. That was an awesome podcast we're talking. You know he always says work on the business, not for it, and that's what I'm trying to do now and eventually I want to get to a point where the business is just doing its own thing, to where I can run some projects. But right now we're at that point where it's. You know I've got to develop the entire corporation. Let these guys handle that and try to take it on man. Developing that team and strategy is so hard.
Speaker 1:That is a very unique business model for sure, but at the same time we all navigate it a little differently to get to the same result that we feel is beneficial and it's all shaped around experience. I think you know what I mean. You know, in the short tenure that I've had going on here, I definitely move from scarred experience of things going bad and I think a lot of times companies start building braces around those scars and necessarily shouldn't be as deep of a scar as it should be. You know what I mean. But we have a full-time estimator. It's definitely that's the kind of that blurred line where that would be extremely difficult for a sub to do. But in the GC model I could see, oh my God, super benefits with that. Now you got to have a PM willing to stand on his own and really own it and I was talking to you mentioned that earlier.
Speaker 1:Man is when that mindset switched and it's just a $100 bill going across the table at that time, but it was like instant. I know that's what you're talking about. I woke up that Monday with this mini excellent back of my truck one day and I went oh my God, it's all me. Yeah, this is it, it's your job, and so, anyways, have you had to struggle with that getting folks to buy into that team and maybe not and what have you done to correct especially some folks that have been there 10, 20 years? I know they've been around a long time.
Speaker 1:Um, and you know you've got new age coming in, trying to set new age efficiencies, and how have you been navigating that? A little bit, it's. It's not been as bad as I was thinking. It probably would be Awesome. Um, it's been really, really good. Um, we had a solid team. Um, anything I need done, obviously they're going to do it and you know, they know that whatever they need, I'm going to try my best to get it done. Um, so we've got a really solid team and, um, everybody there is fantastic and I think, um, so we've got I mean, we've got one guy, one of our superintendents has been there in excess of 30 years now and he's one of the best superintendents in northwest Arkansas. As far as I'm concerned, he's a rock star and so, yeah, it's been good. The team we've got is solid and it was a massive blessing to be able to keep that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, obviously, I bought the company, but also I inherited the employees, and sometimes that sounds scary, but it's like these people are rock stars, you know they really work, and so I just need a little support. Yeah, exactly, they just needed somebody there to, and I'm you know I might not be that person 100%, but they just needed someone there to. You know, just keep them moving in the right direction, and so, but, yeah, it's, I've got a solid team, and so I don't know if I really answered your question. No, no, no, you absolutely did. I mean, you've got this. It's really cool.
Speaker 1:It sounds like your 30-year-old superintendent, or ladies in the office that have been there a long time, are excited for this change, and I have found within myself and my company as well my guy is that a lot of times, they're just looking and waiting for the leader to do something about it. A lot of times, they're just looking and waiting for the leader to do something about it, and a lot of times for me, it took me a few years to go and catch myself and go why is this going like this? Oh, that's your problem. Stupid Like, do something about it, don't just expect a different result. And yes, it comes with change and accountability, but to have folks like that put in a lifetime at a company, of course I think, as long as I think that's a testament to you is where I was going with this. Is that being the right-minded leader to go? Oh, these guys know their jobs. I just need to be the support system in the tree right now until I can figure out where the support roles are needed to be able to plug those holes.
Speaker 1:But every single day, I couldn't imagine being a CGC dude. We already smiled and laughed about that earlier. But man, you guys are the catch-all Us subcontractors. We're not very easy to deal with. We're always. We want our money right now and I'm done with 52% of the job, but I want 100%. Come on, gc, you screwed it up. It's always your fault. And man, having 20 subs per project, I couldn't even imagine that. But thank God for good superintendents, thank God for good project managers, before it gets up there. But where are you seeing ssi heading man? I want to hear the next, yeah, one to three year hopeful goal or maybe just a projection of where you think you're heading? Yeah, you bet.
Speaker 1:So whenever I, when I bought ssi, I had to sit down and go okay, where do I want this to go? You know, obviously you gotta have a business plan. And I started thinking you think that's obvious, but there's a lot of blue collar guys out there like me yeah, we, I did not have a plan or strategy until like two years ago and my plan is hand written and you know, it's just something there's. There's nothing official, just very simple. Um, but I had to sit there and think, okay, do I want to be bald woman, shell or nam holtz or some of these massive gcs which I think? I think namholz is now a billion-dollar company, they're huge which you know they just bought. You know a ton of other smaller subcontractors out and so they're growing their you know the repertoire massively and I'm like do I want to be that?
Speaker 1:And then my first thought was absolutely not. No, there's no way in the world I want to do that and I still stick by that. You no, there's no way in the world I want to do that and I still stick by that. You know I don't want to be the biggest contractor in Northwest Arkansas. You know you start having 20, 30, 40 employees on staff. That's more to manage, that's more headache. To an extent, you know you can still have rock solid employees, but it's. You know you got to juggle. You know John's vacation time over here Well, you know this person. You got to juggle so much more and I don't want any part of that.
Speaker 1:And but what I do want to do is show people that you know we can absolutely handle larger projects with the crew that we've got, because we have, you know, different, you know operating procedures in place that try that we at least try to abide by to, to make us more efficient, because efficiency is key in this industry, and you know. So, with all that said, I don't want to be the biggest, but I want to have that reputation where it's like okay, call SSI, they'll, you know they'll help you out, whatever the case may be. And I remember one time I was at Commerce Construction and we were working there and somebody came up and asked about a project and one of the owner's comments was well, we're booked out. You know, year, year and a half or so and they're like well, we can wait. I want to get to that point, that's a plus. Okay, we can wait.
Speaker 1:You know that that project owner can wait a little bit to start the job until that GC is done, because they want to use that GC. Well, and it's not just from a money perspective. The money is, yes, for a lot of these clientele, customer base, money's their number one concern, and it's not necessarily how much it is, it's just how long can I hold on to the money, or whatever the case may be. But there's a whole different customer base that is way more concerned with deadline, time and schedule than they are. Cost Now, cost is cost to them and they understand that as long as they ain't getting their head took off. These guys over here when they say August 20th, we're done on August 20th, we got to be done on August 20th, so no schedule delays. And so those are the relationships that are hard to navigate when you're I can only imagine for a GC.
Speaker 1:But just for my sake is, I'm an underground contractor in all capacities. If we hit unsuitable soils and I didn't even warn you that this may be a thing hey, hold up before you ship eight or nine semis out here and put it down in a mud hole. You know it's anyways don't quite know where I was going with that fellows, but, um, I'm number one. I'm proud of you, dude. I wanted to share that. I appreciate that. I uh, I think it's very noble, I think it's yeah, passion has to be there.
Speaker 1:But to walk into a GC role and understand that it's not about let's be on every corner and make no money, but to model around a company that commerce has an amazing reputation in the subcontractor world as well, to have that reputation and a clientele reputation, because that client's sitting there going. Well, we'll wait, because I know there's going to be way less unexpected crap that I've got to deal with during my time and deadline and my project will get done. When I said it was going to get done because you guys did six years ago, you did a strip mall, whatever the case may be, you know, and it's you're right, as soon as you do get ahold of those clients, it's reoccurring. You've got to be thinking about that next project and how this one is going the entire time, because if not, you're losing your shot. You know, and, man, just, I encourage you for sure, cause I could only imagine some of your days in phone calls. It's a roller coaster for sure. You know it doesn't stop. And lately the email has been what really kills me. I get a ton of emails a day. But yeah, no, absolutely, and that's the thing you know.
Speaker 1:Right now in Northwest Arkansas there is so much going on, but there's also so many different GCs. Much going on, but there's also so many different GCs and that's like you know the, the repeat business. You know your reputation. That's make or break. You know cause. A lot of times it is about money, like you said. But um, you know there's so many different people that are coming in here as out of town GCs opening up branch offices here, and they're just hungry for it. They're going through everything they can just to get some of this work. And some of these smaller local guys that have been here for forever that you know, maybe less known, they're getting weeded out really quickly and it's kind of eye-opening really. So it's like you have to revamp your business model around that too. And, dude, it's so funny You're seeing that in the GC world because if you're on any type of social media, you know somebody everybody that I'm talking to right now that has gone and bought a skid steer and a dually in a truck.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. Like every Tom, dick and Harry is a guy, is a dirt guy now. And it's like, thank God in Arkansas, where you know we have contractor's licenses, and but our neighboring States, you know, oklahoma, missouri, it's a wild, wild West. You know what I mean. I couldn't imagine over there. But thank God we have that protection of being licensed contractors. But and fighting over anything that that's hole filler, oh my gosh dude. But then I was just on the phone yesterday, um crew looking for work.
Speaker 1:Another company can't make payroll and not judging, let me tell you it's freaking hard making payroll. You entrepreneurs out there it usually hits like here's payroll and nobody paid. Like they said they were going to what do you mean? Like that was my payroll this week. Like we paid all our, like what do we? So yeah, I'm telling you, I, yeah, I completely, completely yeah, and that's it's. It's that way on the gc world. So you know, don't think any differently there.
Speaker 1:It's um, we've got, we've got receivables that are way past 120 days. Right, it's like, and you know that's that's where my job gets really hard, because you built that next one, oh yeah, and it's like you know you really want to treat that client well, but it's's like, okay, well, you know here's, you know, in some cases it could be half a million, some some cases it could be a million dollars that we're waiting on. I'm like, well, where's this at? You know where we're looking at. I gets to a point where we really try to take care of sub, but, um, it's hard, it's hard. This year alone, um, we've seen more, you know, extended pay terms than I ever have, and I don't know why. I'm so glad to hear you say that because, man, it was funny, after covid, like it was, you always had day 75, they're going to start hollering at you. Hey, we've really got to get some attention to this. Yep, get you written update here's when it's coming. That's about all it was After COVID and all the supply chain went like it did, that 75 became 45 and that 90 became 60.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that 90 is where they shut you off, but 60, now you smoke bold. Well, when you adjust that over, you know, last year was tough, dude. The last two years was brutal, but last year, specifically 24, I'll never forget the rest of my life just from the fading of COVID and still dealing with hyperinflation and hypercost that people don't understand. That's not coming down yet. Got a 5% increase on all rock and all concrete heading into the year, like why. You know what I mean. Anyways, that's a totally different subject matter for today.
Speaker 1:But no, I hope to encourage a few guys that are sitting out there in the same position that you are. Hopefully they're sitting in that PM role or that super role going man, I'd really like to freaking do this and do it the way I want to do it and encourage them. It can be done. He's sitting here. Do right by people so that when that relationship does strike up, you're ready to strike on that opportunity and be able to come to the table with a good reputation and all the sponge knowledge. It's not like you just woke up and were a CEO the next day. My guy, it's tough, isn't it? It still is. It still is.
Speaker 1:Working in the business is fun. Working on the business most of the time sucks and it's the hard nitty gritty and in my experience, the first two to five years, dude, I want to do every little thing myself because I was so scared of it and instead of delegating. Hey, cpa, you hand a payroll. Hey, fractional HR, you handle this and figure out where I'm at and let me go produce. And it took me a long time to figure that out, dude, it really did. But um, that's my biggest struggle, I think, too, is delegating. You know, I want to have a hand in everything. So welcome to being a true entrepreneur, bud, because we all struggle with it and I think.
Speaker 1:But that's the problem with scale, that's the problem with scaling, like until you get out of your head what you want to do on paper that people can read and follow it and follow a process because of what you know your head on paper. You know what I mean. It took me until year seven and some people don't ever find it out. I know companies that I'm literally doing work for right now that are 45 year companies and my jaw drops to the ground when they call me and ask some of the questions. They do. I'm like, guys, what do you mean? This or this? Like you're at like mind blowing stuff, companies around here that would floor you, but you know what you got to deal with. So I got one more question.
Speaker 1:I've been kind of rambling here, guys. I apologize, but I've really enjoyed our conversation. Dude's been insightful for me. Dude, honestly, more than you'd probably realize, um, but that blue collar guy, lady man sitting out there who's just sick and tired of being stuck in the mud. I ask it on every episode and you've probably prepared for this question if you've listened to a few. But it can be mental, physical, emotional. We've all been there and you are the epitome of the person I'm trying to talk to from. You were at this level and you said screw this, I'm going here, this is how I'm doing it. Yep, give us a takeaway for that blue collar just sitting there stuck in the mud, but just do it, just do it.
Speaker 1:Um, so being stuck in the mud is, um, it is, it's. It's a situation where it's like, I mean, you just don't know what to do. You know you have no idea where to go, what you're doing, all that kind of stuff. Um, the biggest thing that I do and I do this every day is I take time. I take, you know, five, 10 minutes, whatever it is. Just sit back and just think, um, shut your phone off, shut your TV off, whatever the case is. Just sit there and think, and you know those little micro thoughts that I have can compile you know X amount of days, weeks, months, whatever it is, um to an idea. You just try to develop that idea and just do it. You know, just execute, whatever it takes, just get it done.
Speaker 1:And yeah, being stuck in the mud is and I've been there. You know I was burnt out on working and just didn't like what I was doing, all that kind of stuff, and that just made a change. Just do it, just get out there. It's really that easy dude it is. Just get out there. It's really that easy dude it is. But once you do it, you've got to keep doing it. That's the hard. That's the hard part, like making the decision most people won't even do, jumping off entrepreneurial whatever, and a lot of them don't need to. Just to be fair, a lot of years me. But at the same time, as long as you make the jump, that's's step one. But then reoccurring, doing whatever you're doing month after month after month and trying to grow it a little bit, is probably one of the most difficult things I've ever done in my entire life. I agree. But I will say the one thing you know on to that point it is one of the most difficult things that you'll ever do.
Speaker 1:It's mind blowing how many people are in your corner. It is unbelievably mind blowing. I mean people that I'd never even thought would be my banker, one of my best. You know that's an awesome relationship. They're in your corner, they're fighting for you. You know these people are rooting for you and people come out of the woodworks to root for you and that you know that's. That's a game changer. I mean, it makes it totally worth it. Dude. I literally I was on to wrap it up here it's the emails that I get from audience members. It's the uh DM on TikTok, instagram. Just a short hey, man, I really appreciate you and all the things that you're putting out there. It's not easy putting yourself out there in the marketing world and for the internet to bash you and everything else, but it's the people that you truly help along the freaking way. Dude, it is, you're right, it's so rewarding, I think. Fulfilling, I think would be the word yeah, and but no testament to you.
Speaker 1:I hope you guys have absolutely loved today's episode. I think we have to have you back. I think we're going to have to have you back and probably a few questions are going to get asked from this episode. I have a feeling just because you're such a unique I mean literally how you navigated it is very unique and I'm hoping it encourages a guy or two out there. And they've got some questions.
Speaker 1:So where can they find you? Linkedin? I know you're on LinkedIn. Yeah, linkedin. I have a Facebook. I have an Instagram. I don't get on very much as far as the company pages go. Yeah, linkedin, facebook, instagram. I think our business development manager is also doing TikTok, oh, I think. Okay, I've never had a TikTok in my life and I think she is starting to do those. So be on the lookout for that as well. So LinkedIn sounds like a good spot to shoot Mr Hanna a DM and get to know him and his story. Good connections, build those relationships, guys.
Speaker 1:Till next time. Guys, we're coming at you every 5 am on Wednesdays, every single week. Catch it on all your podcast streaming platforms, but you can watch totally for free if you don't have a subscription, or listen for free straight from the website at bluecollarbusinesspodcastcom. Trent. Thank you again. Seriously, it was more insightful than you probably realized, but I really appreciate you and I hope it encourages somebody today. Until next time. You guys be safe. If you've enjoyed this episode, be sure to give it a like. Share it with the fellers. Check out our website to send us any questions and comments about your experience in the blue collar business. Who do you want to hear from? Send them our way and we'll do our best to answer any questions you may have. Till next time, guys.