Blue Collar Business Podcast
Welcome to the Blue Collar Business Podcast with Sy Kirby. Dive deep into the world of hands-on entrepreneurship and the gritty side of making things happen. Join us for actionable tips on scaling your blue-collar business, managing teams, and staying ahead in an ever-evolving market. We'll also discuss the latest industry trends and innovations that could impact your bottom line. If you're passionate about the blue-collar world and eager to learn from those who've thrived in it, this podcast is a must-listen. Stay tuned for engaging conversations and real-world advice that can take your blue-collar business to new heights.
Blue Collar Business Podcast
Ep. 41 - Why Buildertrend Failed Us (and How Project Management Saved It)
Ever felt trapped in the endless cycle of gathering more work than you can handle, scrambling to complete it, then desperately seeking more jobs to stay afloat? Sy Kirby calls this the "hamster wheel of death" for blue collar entrepreneurs—and it's exactly where he found himself before implementing proper systems and processes at Sy-Con.
In this revealing conversation with Shelena Taylor, owner of 4G Enterprises and Sy-Con's fractional project manager, we pull back the curtain on what truly happens when a disorganized construction company transforms through systematic project management. The journey isn't pretty or comfortable, but the results are game-changing.
"People have to know what they need to do, what they're required to do, what's expected of them, in order for you to hold them accountable," Shelena explains, highlighting how job descriptions and standard operating procedures create the foundation for everything else. We explore how simple tools like QR codes for equipment inspections and digital forms for field reports can dramatically shift responsibility from the owner to the team, creating accountability without micromanagement.
We dive deep into the practical aspects of implementing project management software like Buildertrend and monday.com, discussing what works specifically for blue collar businesses where team members aren't sitting behind desks. You'll hear honest admissions about the emotional challenges of this journey—the vulnerability, the transparency, and the occasional resistance from team members who aren't ready to change.
The most powerful takeaway? As Shelena puts it, "If you are willing to change, you are not going to stay stuck." Whether you're the person holding the shovel on day one or the burnt-out project manager drowning in responsibilities, this conversation offers a roadmap to transform your approach to blue collar business.
Ready to break free from the cycle that's keeping your business dependent on you? Listen now, then connect with us at bluecollarbusinesspodcast.com to share your own journey toward systems that actually work.
Click the link above for a free marketing audit with insights to boost your blue collar business!
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Hey guys, welcome to the Blue Collar Business Podcast, where we discuss the realest, rawest, most relevant stories and strategies behind building every corner of a blue collar business. I'm your host, cy Kirby, and I want to help you in what it took me trial and error and a whole lot of money to learn the information that no one in this industry is willing to share. Whether you're under that shade tree or have your hard hat on, let's expand your toolbox. Welcome back, guys, to another episode of the Blue Collar Business Podcast, sponsored and presented by podcastvideoscom. We are in the beautiful I do believe they call this the conference room here in the Rogers Arkansas location.
Speaker 1:I have a guest that you guys have all been waiting for.
Speaker 1:You've been hearing me preach, talk about systems and processes and procedures and why they're important, and all the things that I've been doing behind the scenes at PsyCon, and today you're going to get to actually hear firsthand a little bit about what we've been doing, but also some basic implementation steps that you can start getting your guys, your teams, on a fast track within a project management system, and I have been truly waiting to bring some of the insight from and use me as an example and some of the horror stories we could probably get into today when our guest first showed up and started helping.
Speaker 1:So today, furthermore, I have Ms Shalina Taylor, owner of 4G Enterprises, and a little brief description essentially has been CyCon's active fractional project manager for essentially for the last six months, implementing systems and processes and SOPs, standard operating procedures and things of that nature. So we're going to talk about that in the blue collar setting and why that is important for you guys. This is not just for the corporate world. You have got to implement some of this if you want to succeed, grow and scale.
Speaker 1:So furthermore thank you, ms Shalina, so much for joining me. Thank you for having me, of course. Where do we start today? Because, literally, Michalina would, for the first couple of months, during a research analyst's little phase, sunday, through what you would call not a meeting, but a collective group of individuals getting together and talking about what they may or may not get done that week, you can start. Let's start number one with a little bit about you. But I am so honestly shocked the power of LinkedIn within just a year's time and how I've been on there and started integrating. But that's where I found you. Like you, you had just basically put out an ad for where you're at, you know, and uh, I found you and thank God we did, because we have fast-forwarded what I have been and what Sarah has been begging to get done for years. But now I understand the need. But tell us a little bit about you before we get going too far here.
Speaker 2:Sure, I have spent the last 12 years in commercial construction on the owner's side, so I had that perspective Before that. All of my positions with previous companies were all project related, so I've been doing project reading for a long time.
Speaker 1:Sizable construction project management.
Speaker 2:The last 12 years were, yes, very large projects, so it just seemed like a natural progression to try to start my own company and help small to medium-sized businesses with their project management. And I tend to gravitate toward blue-collar so I really enjoy helping the blue-collar industry, so that's where I'm at.
Speaker 1:Honestly, it's what's needed and I have picked up on many times from your past experience with working with the blue-collar world owners, from Concrete or Steel Guys or HVAC or whatever it may be, to excavation and utility guys. We're all disorganized. We're all completely lost individuals. From the organization standpoint, we don't know what is important first, like we don't even know where to start. We don't know. All we're concentrated on is the next job and trying to get this job done. And it's this hamster wheel of death for an entrepreneur of go, gather as much work as possible, go, do that work, because you just gathered too much work for what you have. Then you grow a little bit oh, I've got a bit more work, get over here. And it's just back and forth and back and forth. And as you showed up here, literally that was the representation of the wheel that I was on and obviously the audience has watched me progress through having a project manager and backing up and going oh, this is on my plate now and it needs to be, because you and the systems that you have made so important, and go no, look, you have got to understand. This is so important If you want to do what you tried to do put this in place. Then we go find the right candidates and you let them roll. And I'm like, well, that's what I've been wanting to do this whole time, but I didn't understand how to get there. And this is the key, literally the key and shout out to Mr Howerton, because I wasn't. I was serious about it last year, like I knew it was a focus point.
Speaker 1:Obviously, july, my project manager going and doing his own thing, was a definite wake-up call for me and I'm like, man, why am I failing so hard with you know, the leadership principle? Why is it still all on me? I have all these people in place like all tree mess of people and it was all imploding on me and it was all back on me every single day, like, did you not ask this person and this person and this person? Yeah, but we didn't get anywhere. So we just came straight to you and I'm like, oh my gosh. Well, so, as you have got to watch, I literally sat there and kind of made a decision myself and I was like, hmm, I kind of kind of take this role back over and number one understand it. Number two, probably put myself in their shoes and see the disorganization and zero systematic procedure other than, oh, we took some pictures and this is what we did that day.
Speaker 1:Like guys, I'm not discouraging you. If you're at that level right there, that is a great place to start. But I'm telling you there's so much more to it and for years that's what I thought. You know, we just document what we do and keep on rocking, get us the next project and it's all the finite information and details to make it a whole lot less stressful. Add a little bit of accountability, the right accountability. Job descriptions Do we start there? Descriptions, let's do we start there? I mean, I will talk about just for a moment and I'm probably gonna hop on this isn't something you say but the job descriptions and how vitally. I can't tell you guys how vital job descriptions are, because you can have a whole mess of people 30 people but if there's no organization chart and job descriptions for what each and every single person does at that company, I know that sounds overwhelming, but seriously, and that's what we've been working through.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one of the larger problems that we discussed early on was the lack of accountability. So you have to have people have to know what they need to do, what they're required to do, what's expected of them, in order for you to hold them accountable, and there wasn't anything like that in place whenever I first started working with you guys. So we're still in the middle of rolling that out, because that's a big job of trying to determine what everybody needs to be doing and how they need to be doing it. So you mentioned SOPs making sure that we have the processes in place for each job description. It's a big job, but it's basically that foundation that you really need so that you can start building.
Speaker 1:It is literally the interweb. It's the communication method. I screamed for communication, but they needed a process to communicate. They were communicating, but not everybody can remember everything all day long. So, guys, you don't know what you don't know.
Speaker 1:And while Ms Shalina is talking about the size and the weight of literally writing these documents and making sure they're in place, it is a big, big task. Don't put it on your wife's, okay? Like, literally, sarah would be like for years. We've got to get this going. She'd be reading and she'd be studying and like this is vitally important. We've got to get this going. And here I am Well, this job and that job, and I've got to get a track. Oh, here, well, this job and that job, and I got to get a track. Go here and not even remotely trying to bite into the information she's trying to give to me and understand, because I didn't understand a lot, like our audience today doesn't understand the benefit and the curse of not having it in place.
Speaker 1:But it takes a long time to go through this process. It's as fast or as slow as you want it to be, mr or Mrs Entrepreneur, but once you start to feel those little winds on the other side of it and you see Johnny the backhoe driver literally driving his backhoe and he's happy and he understands his job. And he's happy and he understands his job and he's getting those equipment check sheets in before he starts his engine. For you know, this is the small things but they don't become necessarily hassles at that point. You know, I I screwed up in a lot of ways but literally we're fixing to start our 10th year in business in August. You guys, as plumbers and electricians or excavation guys, you're not job description writers and I would encourage you to find somebody like Miss Shalina, spend the time sitting here for her to pull the information out of in a very therapeutic way.
Speaker 1:And you go through self-realizations and you go through self-development and you go through this vulnerability and transparency, through this and you start to realize, just talking to somebody about this, you're like, oh my God, am I an idiot? And you just have these major shifts. I'm the bottleneck, literally. You watched me do this. I'm like I told Ms Salinas two days in she's like you need an operations manager, sir. And I'm like, yeah, we're not doing that again. Yeah, I was so scarred and I was vulnerable in that conversations where I was going with that to make sure you understood like, hey look, it's not like me saying no, I don't need that. I recognize the fact that I do. I just don't know how to emotionally process dealing with that right now and I know we're going a little off.
Speaker 2:It took you six months.
Speaker 1:It literally did, and it was three weeks ago. Guys, I was just talking about it on the last episode. We are hiring for an ops manager role. You can check it out on Sycon's LinkedIn Shameless plug there. But the beautiful job description that was wrote by the wonderful Miss Shalina right here will be there for you to read and analyze, and I guess that's the way they get to check homework on you today and that role's there. We're looking for that person desperately to empower the team. It's what's lacking. How did you know day two that I needed an operations manager? I think that would be a really good question for you to answer.
Speaker 2:You know, I think I knew the day that we met for coffee. Okay, before I even started.
Speaker 1:Start the discovery intro call okay.
Speaker 2:But at that that moment, you and sarah were very open with me, um, and you guys gave me a lot of information in that outer coffee slot that we had. But, um, it was good because then I kind of had an idea what I was getting into as well. But also, just, you're the owner of the company and your focus needs to be on business development and what I've seen over the last six months is your focus is in 15 different directions and a lot of it is field operations, which part of getting job descriptions in place and putting some accountability on your field crew is going to take some of that pressure off. But you know, those are just some of the little hints that you know I saw along the way that said that's what you need. When we first started, I did a SWOT analysis talk about what a SWOT analysis is.
Speaker 2:so that's where you analyze a company and you determine what the strengths, the weaknesses, the opportunities and the threats are. And then, when you take all that information and you figure out how you can kind of build off of, how do you capitalize on those opportunities to minimize your weaknesses.
Speaker 1:So we did that and that told us a lot about psycon told me a lot like seeing it on paper in front of my face. I couldn't disagree with anything. And, um, I think the one phase that I think we kind of skipped through, but that first three months you were like a shadow and not just with me guys, guys like with the estimator, and if there was a project manager, I mean you were filling that kind of a gap there, but it was me and dealing with me on the project management side, but also dealing with me from the and the hr stuff, making sure michelle up front in the back of the house is taken care of, which is a whole different beast in itself. And and and not only that, it made, it gave you the time, I do believe, to understand, because I don't I don't think you were in the blue collar working space, you know, in the last 15 years, so I also gave you a little appreciation. I would hope to. Oh, they're trying, but they really just don't know.
Speaker 1:Did you think from January it can't be that bad walking into it? I mean, we were pretty transparent about it, but at the same time it can't be that bad, can it? And then you get there. Was there any shock walking in?
Speaker 2:Well, I think not necessarily shock, because I don't think you give yourself enough credit for the things that you did have organized and working. I mean, you did make it to year 10. So I don't think I was shocked. I think the thing that really impressed me was the dedication of your team. Yes, you had guys that just all they want is to see Saigon, you know, make it. So they were just sitting there like ready for someone to come in and say, hey, let's try this, let's give you these tools so that you can do this job a little more efficiently. So I wasn't shocked.
Speaker 1:No, Good Well from. I think that will shine a little light to maybe somebody in your position as well that has the knowledge and has the direction and maybe can walk in and maybe hopefully inspire somebody from the upper echelon of the world with the knowledge level to step down and literally work laterally along with a, you know, much smaller mid-market, whatever blue collar skilled trades guy. Because that's what this show's about is to take the white collar world and literally dumb it down. Enough for I mean us to understand, because that's why a lot of blue collar guys don't reach directly out, because you guys don't. We don't speak the same language, like we don't get all the fancy words. It takes us time and if I didn't go through the last 10 years of experience, I wouldn't have half a clue what you were talking about day one. And but I knew from the things that I was lacking and the things that I was researching and the things that you were saying is exactly what I needed. And so once we got past that kind of research and that phase, you really I got to say you started holding me accountable, and in both of my roles in that PM slot, because I wouldn't give it up. But here we are.
Speaker 1:We had a few people along the way that didn't like how this navigation was going as well, and we both discussed that. We knew a percentage was probably going to jump off the ship and the percentage that stayed was exactly. Honestly, looking back is exactly what needed to happen and also showed me that I made some wrong hires, not necessarily in the wrong people, but in the wrong positions, and I've also, 30,000 foot big, pictured this like we're dealing with another backlog issue. Why are we dealing with another backlog issue? If we had a salesman, well, the marketing set up with my face on it, but then I'm handing them off to a different salesman, well, that's probably not what they. That's not really cohesive, right? So I really put two and two together there when I could sit back.
Speaker 1:Number one I've had enough time to analyze something and work on the business and help navigate me. Working on the business, as you're holding me accountable as the owner of the business, which you probably don't know as much as you do, but navigating. That alleviates all of the pressures out of my brain and, with some of these systems that these guys are catching on with, is buying me back a little bit of time to sit back and literally analyze myself and analyze a company and build strategy and that's the. I've like thought strategy was such a weird word for business. But it's everything long-term strategy and short-term strategy and literally micro strategy to a like the stuff we're doing with CRM stuff.
Speaker 1:I know I'm getting way off the beaten path here, but give us a small say. There's a guy listening today that wants this so desperately. He's been in the same rut for 20 years and he doesn't even know to take the first step. Where does he start? What's the basics that he needs to cover for any skilled trades? Blue collar working business, documentation of the work clocking in where? Where do we need to start?
Speaker 2:I honestly think that it is starting like we did with your company is like you really have to um sit and analyze what are the gaps? Um, how's the communication? Do the teams feel supported? What's your cash flow looking like? Um, just all of those little pieces have to be analyzed to see kind of it's going to.
Speaker 2:What it's going to do is highlight the gaps there and then, once you have those gaps, then you can figure out like what, what do you need to fix on? And in your case, you know you had, you were taking on the project management role and you were taking it on 150 percent, to the point where you were spending your week going out and gathering information from the guys in the field, instead of the guys in the field being accountable and giving you the information. So that's where you know we we've found you know I sat in those monday meetings. You got me up god awful early in the morning to be at a meeting, um every monday and um I would just sit there and be like what are we doing? Like I don't understand this.
Speaker 1:So we Neither did my team, though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the point. Nobody. Yeah, they just needed some direction. So it was. That was like a. Really.
Speaker 2:I think that's a good example of how we use technology to kind of help with project management, because I was able to go in and create just what programs that you already have in your office 365 packet. You know, we used forms and I created a Microsoft form that had questions and there was a QR code. The guys in the field could just scan the code, answer the questions. The questions were like you know, does this project have any constraints? Are there challenges that you're encountering that site needs to be involved in? Do you need more labor? What equipment do you need on this site?
Speaker 2:You know, like just, they were basic questions, but you were getting that information from the guys. The guys were providing it through this form and then it dumps it into a OneNote sheet and there you have your report for your Monday morning meeting, and so it's simple, little things like that. And because the guys are out there working, they're in the field, they're working hard, they're not sitting at a desk all day, so you have to tailor this to something that's easy for them to navigate and it doesn't feel like a burden. It feels like a tool. So that's just like a little example of some of the things that we've been working on to alleviate some of that pressure on you and hold the guys in the field a little more accountable.
Speaker 1:I think you just blew a couple of guys' minds and hold the guys in the field a little more accountable. You know, I think you just blew a couple of guys' minds because they probably were sitting there going wait a minute, that makes sense. Why am I showing up on Monday telling all these guys what's happening? And they show up every week. These were on these jobs. There's so many guys sitting in the same position that may have a few crews, or three or four or five crews or whatever it may be, and are still taking on that pm role. I can't tell you. I can't. I could probably name three or four of them, but we just don't know any different. And until you say, well, why have we not stuck a qr code in their truck to get this information out of them? And we're like what do you mean? And the first time I'll never, freaking, forget it.
Speaker 1:I knew it was such a game changer in our world. One of the guys came up to me, a guy that you would never think that even tried. The method, you know what I mean, wasn't really set up for him and he came in there and he goes. You know what I mean. It wasn't really set up for him and he came in there and he goes hey man, that's really cool. I didn't know how you can do that, but that also helps dn logistically. Help jim move our pieces of it. It changed the whole game.
Speaker 2:The qr code in a dadgum machine equipment maintenance checklist and then they started asking for more qr codes for other things. So we ended up doing your equipment safety inspection.
Speaker 1:And it's fixing to happen more and more. But it was mind boggling for me when you're like, why are you giving all of them the information when you don't have it? Half the time they do. And I'm like, oh my God, that hurt. And you know, through this process I'll just be 100% vulnerable and open with you guys, like I try to be, like it's not super fun, like it's not definitely the most vigorating time sitting here going over your mistakes, where you've messed up, you don't know. But as a business owner you're taking it so hard. You're like, how could I freaking not know this? Whether you're five years in, you could be 20 years in sitting there and going, oh my gosh, you know, you just don't know what. You just don't know. And you've taught me so much in the first six months in this process of what we're doing. But we're just now, like you had said, rolling this out Everything we've been working on for six months and the guys are a little impatient. They're ready to get this going, and so am I.
Speaker 1:But I think, as a blue collar business owner, we tend to rush things, we tend to think of things very one-laned and instead of encompassing the entire business picture. Hell when your first five years you don't even know about 40% of the business picture. I'm actually talking about cash flow, interest and of that sort taxes. I mean that just shows up one day and you're like, oh hey, I got to pay all these too. But when you're making those decisions they're uninformed. But in our heads we're like I know what's going on. I know what's going to happen with the market. I know what's going on. I know what's going to happen with the market. I know what's going on here. And then when the banker man goes, hey, why are we doing this? Oh well, because here's why. And he looks at you and go, well, that's convincing, and I've known you a long time, johnny. But like, where's the paperwork? Where's your P&L and balance sheet? What's it look like? Do you know what's on there? Can you sit here and describe in front of that banker and go I know everything that's on that P&L and balance sheet.
Speaker 1:Because I had to go sit in front of my big boy CPA in the first or second week of this year and go, hey, look, I have got to figure out my inside accounting piece. I mean, I had a pretty good start in the six months before you got here of really starting to channel, of going this way in estimation and production compared to what it was. But for me to get it over, or even get it to an elementary start, I don't have that power, guys. I don't know how to set it up. I don't know how to set it up. I don't know how to create it. Yeah, could our team effectively get there? Yeah, how many foremans are gonna have to go? How many superintendents are gonna have to go? How many project managers are gonna have to go? How many estimators are gonna get pissed off and leave because they can't get the right information from the back of the office after production's at it so we can appropriately and accurately estimate Like how many? And so here we are. I was done. I wanted to figure it out, so I've been kind of harping on that Blue Collar Performance Marketing guys. You guys have been hearing me talk about them for almost 10 episodes. They've been partnered up with the show I think three months. At this point.
Speaker 1:I have been with Ike and the team for some time now. They came in, took a look at our website, our entire campaign, telling us where we're wasting money, where we're not spending enough time, where the people we want are on the social game, where the people we want are on the social game. So what I'm trying to get at value with those guys has been absolutely astronomical. They take the time, they sit with you. You have to give them the time, just like Michalina sitting here today. You've got to take the time and literally sit down and pour this information out of your head. But if you do that, I promise you you will start seeing the compounded wins. So if you guys want to get with Ike over at Blue Collar Performance Marketing, get with bcperformancemarketingcom backslash bcbpodcast for your free, comprehensive look. He'll give you a discovery call. He's going to take a look at your website and what you guys got going on from the social campaign status and move from there and get you guys a strategy built and hopefully get you in front of the right people. So give them a ring.
Speaker 1:But back at it, michelina. I'm just trying to sit here and think um, from the organization chart. I know that sounds so simplistic, but I literally didn't have one. Like I had an idea, but the word that hit home with me that you probably don't even understand was the flatarchy. I had never been told. Hey, this is a flatarchy Like you have got to fix this. And I'm like everything's underneath me. That is literally the hamster wheel that I'm talking about that I got to get off. How do I start developing the systems underneath these people? And as a blue collar business owner, you'd sit there and you go. Man, I can't tell Jimmy that Bobby's his boss. Heck, no, I can't do that. Well then, jimmy's going to get pissed off and leave. Well then, jimmy don't need to be here. And it took me some time.
Speaker 1:You literally watched me kind of deal with it personally and emotionally, from the damage that what these individuals don't really understand and this is something I've had to deal with too as a leader that it's not always personal, but when you have personal ties into the relationship before they come to work for you, it will always make things difficult. But these people that were supposed to be here for life you know that swore up and down, but it's not necessarily. Yeah, they didn't do their job or whatever the case may be, but PsyCon literally didn't give them all of the tools that they needed to be able to view and look at or create to literally solve the problem that they kept running into, which was the communication front, the information gathering front, the documenting and the storing of that information, and that's where I was going to go next is you know, you've seen that when we first showed up, we were literally, we had a pretty decent documentation stat process. Now was everybody doing it? No, we brought light to that very quickly and I have always been really good at starting things. Here we go, boys. This is what we're doing this week. Here we go, guys. Hey, ladies, I need this, this and this. And we're doing this week. Here we go, guys. Hey, ladies, I need this, this and this, and we're gonna start this and this is how it's gonna roll every time here on out, and we get it the next time and then the next time we've got to reschedule because we're all working and then, and then we kind of forget about it, and then we update and we kind of try to get it scheduled again three months later and then it just dies.
Speaker 1:Execution after implementation is everything, and implementing it is one thing, starting it, getting it going, but being able to have a checks and balance accountable system that to catch hey look, homeboy's not putting anything in there, like you're telling me yes, oh well, are these other two guys. Yeah, no, they're going over the top with information. Why is this guy getting to squeak by? Where's the system to catch that? And we and we maneuvered that very quickly to and to put another set of eyes on it to ensure that I know and I catch an email. Hey, I'm on our report every week. Misty shout out, she'll stick it on her hand. I haven't got any maintenance inspection sheets, my gosh or I haven't got any truck inspection sheets, and this crew's been doing a really good job at it. So I'm not sitting there harping on the whole bunch like I used to, because any, anytime you guys would bring me something. It would be well, we've got to talk about this this week. Well, there may be a group of guys that are doing great. Now I know. Anyways, but the documentation piece.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about software for just a minute, because in the month of June it's the month of software, but there's so many programs out there. You hit on Microsoft 365, there may be some guys still on Mac out there or whatever they're doing, but Microsoft 365, you have to have. Okay, that's a check mark From there. Even, pardon me, where would they go if they're sitting there trying to, maybe instead of just emailing, because at one point we tried Microsoft Teams within 365 is where I was going with that it just doesn't really serve that purpose. Although it can set up all the jobs and store files there, it's just really clunky for the guys out in the field and they couldn't really get the information back. Maybe a couple of programs that handle from the project management base, maybe something we're not thinking about. Maybe some things that we use now, or whatever it may be for the guys that are just now jumping into that software kind of game so you first have to analyze like your business and what you really need.
Speaker 2:You already had builder trends that you were using, so we didn't want to go spend a bunch of money on more software. Like I mentioned, the guys are in the field, they're busy, they're not sitting at a desk all day, so you need something that's going to cover most of the bases, if not all of them. When we first started I thought Asana was the way to go. I love Asana. I just like the way it looks. What's Asana the way to go? Right, I love Asana. I just like the way it looks. What's Asana? Part of it? What's Asana? For the folks that don't know, it's a project management database software that you can use, sort of like mondaycom.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:But what we learned is that Dylan, your estimator, was having a little issue with CRM keeping track of his estimates that he had sent out, his bid invites that he was working on and the status of all that and his communication with clients. So Asana doesn't do a CRM, so we didn't want to start using something, just another program, just because it works good for project management. The ultimate goal is to find one program that covers most of your bases, if not all, and we worked with Ike and we did some research. Ike did his research because he's more CRM, I'm not. I'm more project management. So we both did our research. We ultimately landed on mondaycom and right now we're not using it for project management. We're still in builder trim because that's what your guys are used to, but eventually we will get everything rolled over into Mondaycom, so you're just using one platform.
Speaker 1:The CRM is something that's totally new, but totally new to the blue collar working world and it may not be maybe speaking a little neglectful there, because there are very high transaction-based companies out there like HVAC service call bases or companies or plumbers or electricians that may do a ton of service calls across 20 crews. That's a high influx for the front of the office. They're probably using some type of CRM management, no doubt, but for an excavation business owner that probably only handles five to ten contracts a month and it's not a real high transactional base but it's a real high volume in the price tag department. You still need to organize these people, especially as the contract value goes up, the nurturing of that contract and knowing where my estimator started and stopped, where I'm picking up because, like I've been telling you guys, I'm kind of transitioning up to the face and and starting to do more sales again, which I absolutely love, and anyway it's a different subject. But mondaycom I have literally been helping Ike Shalina and Dylan structure this software for Dylan, because it's not for me, it's not my owner's ego. I love the sales table but if it's what Dylan wants I don't care whatever, as long as we are being efficient and we're getting numbers accurately. Enough time to take off, put our numbers together and get them out in a scheduled manner. I don't care what it needs to look like, I can procure the information in your way, but Dylan has been super effective in communicating what he wants. We just don't know how to get there. And now we have been literally tooling around with this CRM tool for almost 90 days and I'm getting a lot of enjoyment out of it and I am going into subcategories, tasks, and I'm like bro, who am I Like? This is so, but, like I was saying earlier, what we don't realize it's not just all about ROI to a business owner, it's the benefits from all these little things that you have to concentrate. That equals the big picture that you don't automatically see the benefit. Once you feel the benefit from it, you're like, oh, oh, that's why we do that. That makes way more sense. They didn't even call me. They always call me about that thing, but we were able to document and johnny showed up on the job and, uh, he, he looked back in us. Whatever project management tool and builders trends, what we use. We did the pro course thing and that's a whole different podcast for a different day.
Speaker 1:But I remember the first time Jesus showed up on a job and he didn't call me for a said task that I normally catch a call on. Why? Because so-and-so put his dadgum daily log in there. From the last time he was there he knew exactly what he was going in, took pictures of everything when he left it. It was different when he showed up, but I remember, hey Zeus, what happened over there today?
Speaker 1:Well, we had some different things that we had. I got it all worked out with the GC and they supplied us some rock because of whatever. And I'm like, whoa, what you had? The GC supply us rock by pictures and documentation that you had in the field, because it looked like this and I didn't even have to make a photo. Are you kidding me? Like, at that point I saw and I felt the benefit. That's what I mean by that. And financially it will compound, there's no doubt, but it's going to take some time.
Speaker 1:But those are the small benefits I will encourage you guys to be on the look for and celebrate them. Don't just skip over them. Oh, what's on to the next thing. It's so easy for an entrepreneur or any executive on any team just go. Oh well, that was cool. No, if you created change last quarter and you're seeing benefit from that change the next quarter, celebrate it. And I'm not the best at that and I've had to challenge myself like Dylan. Dylan set a record month last month. I walked in there yesterday. I'm like dude, we're going to eat steak somewhere. You just let me know where. I bought the team lunch in the office today and the girl's been working hard but anyways, but finding those little celebratory wins that are special to those people in those departments. But it's getting a little off track. So builder's trend Mondaycom. We're using on the front of the house, the CRM, and our delineation line is contract essentially. So the boys really don't anything from the off side, aren't really seeing anything of Monday yet and eventually go ahead.
Speaker 2:Well, they are adding data to Monday. Yes, go ahead. So we put a link into their daily log and builder trend where they go in and they click the link and they add their production data and that way Dylan can look back at the jobs its sorts by jobs and materials versus labor. Very really, that's really cool. You don't even know.
Speaker 1:No, it's really cool. Things have been happening so fast.
Speaker 2:Dylan can go in and look at the job and kind of see where they're landing on labor and, you know, use that information in his estimating.
Speaker 1:I know he's been, him and Shea have been in that WIP report and that's more for an accounting day. But from the production standpoint, fighting against those estimated and known costs, costs. But that's the one document that he feels as an estimator he can sit there and go. I can literally live track this job and see how I'm doing. It's a race to make sure there's enough of his estimate left there at the end compared to the known costs. So, but okay, so say a guy. Um Asana, you were speaking about builder's trend trend. Speak a little bit about builder's trend, whether you like it or dislike. I'd like to hear about that. And is there another program out there that you do like that maybe cyclone doesn't use that you could see utilized across another platform I builder trend is a nice program.
Speaker 2:I think it it's geared more toward, like, residential builders.
Speaker 1:And then yeah.
Speaker 2:I didn't. I wasn't familiar with BuilderTrend until working with you, so I had to get in there and learn some of the features. One of the things that we did like one of the problems that we assessed early on was the lack of schedules and not having a schedule for a project that you could share with a stakeholder Yep and so I had to spend some time in Builder Trend. I watched a lot of videos to learn how to create a good schedule in Builder Trend, create a good schedule and builder trend, and then, of course, I had to sit down with your guys and do one-on-one trainings with them, because now, when they start a job, they also go into builder trend under that job and they create a schedule and and then they maintain the schedule as as they go it makes me excited because, and where we're trending to back to the short-term, long-term goals.
Speaker 1:This is the short-term, everybody's updating a schedule per job. But long-term, all of those updates transfer over into a broadband company schedule, in which monday does, I do believe, but BuildersTrend doesn't do. Right, that's one of the things. Well, you don't have the full version. That's right, you don't do the full package.
Speaker 2:So I don't know if they would offer that. That's a little bit expensive. Mondaycom is, I think, a little more cost-effective, and Mondaycom where you at. Eventually, what we want to do is when Dylan goes through the estimating process in Monday and then it gets to contracts. If you win the bid it goes to contract. Once the contract is complete, then that job will roll up into a project management board and from there that's where the guys would manage the schedule and production and labor and all that stuff.
Speaker 1:But how we're fighting it right now with the two then spin around here. When it's time to take that project to contract, the guys obviously the schedule is going to need to be updated from when dylan sent it. So at that point, whatever the contract date is, they go in and plug in their dates and they michelina literally sat with the superintendents and was like, hey look, this is how we create a schedule in here and this is what happens if this window pops up and it's that time that's needed to be able to go. Now I can go and look on my phone and go, oh okay, we're behind schedule here. We're definitely behind schedule.
Speaker 1:What is going on here, and it's just live trying and it's not anything extra on the guys because they don't feel like they've got to go figure it out on themselves. They just got instructed literally hey guys, you have to do this, and not just from a standpoint of you have to do this. But here's why and why this schedule is so important to Shea, to Dylan, to the project managers, to everyone here. It is vitally important and, honestly, it's one of those things that I always put to the wayside because the schedule is right here. Honest to God, I don't know, all the guys had it it was up in their head.
Speaker 1:Yep, exactly, and it is not the way to do it and it's not the way to scale and grow.
Speaker 2:You can't until you get it out on paper and if they look like there's something in this job that's going to force them to go over their labor numbers or even materials, then we know ahead of time.
Speaker 2:We're not addressing it the day it happens. We're addressing it two or three weeks before it happens and then that can be taken back to the stakeholder. Or maybe it's an adjustment that the team has to make, you know, depending on the job, but it puts some ownership back on the guys in the field to make sure that that job is profitable and it gives them an opportunity to keep it profitable from the get-go and transparency guys.
Speaker 1:I encourage you be transparent all the way to a fault with your guys with the production data. If there's 420 tons of gravel in that job, let them know. There's 420 tons of gravel in that job, so that way when they get 500 tons, well that's on them. They knew. But if they don't know, they don't know, they're just trying to get the job done.
Speaker 1:I can't tell you how many times that I would get upset about things that they just didn't know wouldn't get upset with them. I get upset with me. I have this running thing. I'll never get mad at you if you don't know. It's my job. I'm the trainer, my name, you work here.
Speaker 1:But now if I take the time and thoroughly stand there and explain not only how but why we do what we're doing, and then it does happen again where you just didn't do it, then we're going to have a serious issue. You know, and I take this training and implementation of our people very serious, but at the same time I was lacking on the career roadmaps and from those job descriptions. What does that unlock? It unlocks the pathway of advancement for them and it really gives them something to work towards, while they're just not. They're just not, while they're just working away. They're also working away at something else and actually have a goal that's achievable maybe something a little unachievable, but something really to work towards. And that was probably, I think, one of the coolest. The coolest things I have seen that has come out of this for our people is that we're literally why I've brought you in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a little bit for me, don't get me wrong, but it's for them. I want their job to run as successfully as possible. I want them to feel that they have all the training that they could possibly grab a hold of, and I want them to feel empowered when they're out there. I don't want them to feel scared or whatever they're going at. It's these internal pre-cons. I think we probably didn't discuss that at all, but we kind of did it. We kind of not did it, but you were the one that was like no, this is the perfect point. We have to have these to transfer this data out of dylan's hands into size and into there. So we we're all on the same page here. So we're communicating about the same amount of quantities here and we all know the production rate, so that way, when they're laying 20 feet and then they needed to put 100 feet in the ground, today we all understand there's there and let's go find it.
Speaker 2:It's more than just materials and labor. You have superintendents that really need to understand the contract and the terms, because those change depending on the job, and they need to be in the know of what is required on that job.
Speaker 1:And I can't tell you it's crazy. It's crazy the amount of development we've already done to sit here and just kind of talk about. I can't wait to feel and see what it's going to do in like six months from now, because I'm starting to feel those small compounded benefit, situational benefits I guess, um, but I literally can't wait to not not for me. I want to see wesley in six months. I can't wait to see zeus in a year. I can't wait to see sam in a year, like, like and get them on this path to success. There is no more. What you didn't know, no, guys, I'm talking. We have papers, like stacks of them. Now there is and we're creating videos for our marketing program, which I thought was a great idea for our onboarding and our implementing.
Speaker 1:If you guys don't know, I psycon does a uh youtube channel. We do double uploads a week and bring you behind the scenes of exactly what the company is doing for, not just for you guys, but for our customers and everybody to see. So I guess I kind of lost my train of thought there. But, um, what was I saying? Training videos? Oh, that's exactly what I'm saying. Editors, help me out there, sorry.
Speaker 1:So through that youtube program uh will is selena's, giving us a small list of generic stuff, because, as the entrepreneur or the ops manager, you're so far off in the weeds you're like I don't know what to give them. Well, how about ppe sigh? And I'm like, oh yeah, like, let's us two minute video of this is what's required from me in a video. I don't have to stand there every time, but this I'm telling you. So when I show up for the first time and they see me on a job, they're like oh, that dude, that's the dude that told me that I gotta have my hard hat on, but I get my hammer hard hat on, which we don't play that game here. We wear art hats, but anyways, it's the small things like that that stacks the compounds. But what would you say in the overall grand scheme of things, from the project management level is the? I've talked about where to start, but if you had one section of it that is the most important, could you narrow it down to one thing?
Speaker 1:um, I would think take your time if you need the most important would probably be Um team development. Hmm.
Speaker 2:What an answer. You're not going to make any money if they can't do their job properly, efficiently, in a timely manner.
Speaker 1:On schedule.
Speaker 2:I think, making sure that they have all the tools and that they're trained on those tools. That's one of the things that I think I've been. You know, and it's difficult. That is one of the hardest things working with your company right now is trying to find the time to spend with your guys to train them, because the only time you can do that is when the weather's bad yeah, especially when the weather's been so bad this year yeah, and it seems like when we do think there's going to be a weather day and we schedule it, then it doesn't rain and then they need to be out working, so that's, that's a struggle it is but it's important.
Speaker 2:I mean, we have seen just in your company what me sitting with the guys for an hour talking about schedules has done with. You know their use of builder trend, that they were never trained on how to use it and it was never really part of their job description that's right.
Speaker 1:And they, literally they were just what do you mean? Now I gotta put the pipe in and then talk about how what I did. You know it's foreign, you know, and this software and all this stuff and computers has only been around for a couple of decades. You know, especially out there in the field. I mean the last 15 years. How long has iPads been around? Maybe a decade. You know what I mean. This has all come on really strong and now it's all the way on their phone and clocking it out on their phone. Yeah, that's a totally different subject for another day.
Speaker 2:I mean, how awesome was it Monday morning sitting there seeing your two superintendents sitting in the meeting with their iPads open. They had their weekly report pulled up. They were engaged.
Speaker 1:Very. It was awesome Setting the tone, asking the questions, not me going. Hey, what do you think about this this week? What do you think about that? Hey, we really gotta get old johnny knocked out. You know he's really gonna be me, just didn't have any clue.
Speaker 1:You know what do you put on them, how do you put it on them. You know they need to be doing it, but you really don't know how to get there for them. Number one for you to keep your people not piss them off. But it's just exactly why folks like you are needed in all industries industries, and I encourage hopefully um, I don't think there's going to be many male in this role just from the attention to detail, because the amount of detail that you put into this and care about the small details me and you guys entrepreneurs, you're not going to care like, like a lady like miss shalina and her company does, because she's passionate about it. I've seen the passion, I've lived through the passion like, literally like. Why do you care so much about this, michelina? It's not that important like, but it is that important and you have to see it. You need somebody to hold you accountable. So I would encourage you guys where's the best place to find 4G on LinkedIn? I would say LinkedIn, yep, that's the most professional place to find anything. But find Ms Jelena, reach out and maybe discuss a few things and maybe she can point you in the right direction and find her there on LinkedIn.
Speaker 1:But the last final question I ask everybody on this show yeah, you were ready for this, you were ready for this one. She's watched a few episodes, I think, more or less to just get in my head. But what's a takeaway for these blue-collar workers? I don't care if it's the guy holding a shovel just walked on job day one trying to figure out what this blue-collar life is about, or it's a project manager on burnout and just so sick and tired of dealing with the stress, emotionally, physically, mentally, just stuck in the mud. What are we saying to that guy today?
Speaker 2:I've been that guy, good girl. Um, I think, um, I think you are a really good example of this, because you are willing to learn and change and go through the uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:Shame and embarrassment, yeah, like literally.
Speaker 2:Like all of it. Like you and I have had some really uncomfortable conversations Maybe not so uncomfortable for me, but they were really uncomfortable for you and I think that is a great quality, because if you are willing to change, you are not going to stay stuck.
Speaker 1:Oh, you came prepared. That is good, that's really good. You actually you can always tell when folks have thought about that answer and have listened to an episode that if you're willing to change, you can stay stuck. I think that's probably going to be an infamous answer to that, because you're right, you're not stuck unless you stop. As long as you don't stop and you're always pressing forward whether it's the wrong direction or not, just don't stand in the middle of the road and get run over both ways. Pick a lane. It doesn't matter if it's the wrong lane, you pick the lane. You're going to learn very quickly if it's the wrong lane, or you might learn it's the right lane. Just make the dang decision and embrace change.
Speaker 1:I would so encourage that, and there's some people on my team that didn't want to embrace the change, and you know whether they're here or not. There's some folks that's still here, that are still having a hard time embracing the change and have got a little bit of a rude awakening. In the next 60, 90 days they're going to figure it out, huh. So anyways, guys, I really truly hope you got to see a little insight today from my perspective and what I've been coming on this show and telling you guys that I've been working on behind the scenes and I wanted to bring the credibility but also open up exactly 4G, the same place that I'm having so much success doing exactly what we're discussing today the minute details that are important for your success and your team's success and the development of your team. You have to go find the right person and I will tell you, the one I use is wonderful and I really appreciate all the work you've put in over the first six months of this year and I cannot wait to see the benefit compound and stack over the next couple of years Because when that operations manager does get a hold of these systems, a good one's going to be excited because he gets to still mold them and shape them and I'm really excited to see them take off and run. With what we've done and I'm glad I got it done in year nine Like most of the bad stuff is kind of over.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean, don't get me wrong. There's still things that we're going to deal with and have hard conversations, but like the most of the research and like having to tell all the nitty, nitty, nitty gritty is kind of over with and it's encouraging for me to keep moving forward. You know, some of them weeks. I wasn't looking forward as much to these meetings Okay, but I know they need. I knew for us to move forward, we had to, so thank you so much for joining me today. For us to move forward, we had to, so thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you for having me. Absolutely, guys, you can catch.
Speaker 1:This is episode number 41. I would love to know if anybody has actually listened to every single episode all the way to the end. If you have, go ahead and reach into the show. I've got something special brewed up for episode number 50 coming at you guys. Until then, check out bluecollarbusinesspodcastcom. You'll check out all the episodes completely free to watch and to listen to straight from there. Or, if you have a subscription on any of the podcast platforms, make sure you drop us a follow and a rating at the end of the episode, which most of them make you do. But I greatly appreciate it and until next time, you guys, you guys be safe and be kind and we'll see you on the next one. If you've enjoyed this episode, be sure to give it a like, share it with the fellers. Check out our website to send us any questions and comments about your experience in the blue collar business. Who do you want to hear from? Send them our way and we'll do our best to answer any questions you may have. Till next time, guys.