Blue Collar Business Podcast
Welcome to the Blue Collar Business Podcast with Sy Kirby. Dive deep into the world of hands-on entrepreneurship and the gritty side of making things happen. Join us for actionable tips on scaling your blue-collar business, managing teams, and staying ahead in an ever-evolving market. We'll also discuss the latest industry trends and innovations that could impact your bottom line. If you're passionate about the blue-collar world and eager to learn from those who've thrived in it, this podcast is a must-listen. Stay tuned for engaging conversations and real-world advice that can take your blue-collar business to new heights.
Blue Collar Business Podcast
Ep. 55 - Fixing Financial Blind Spots in Construction
Ever wondered why your profitable projects aren't reflected in your bank account? The answer lies in construction financial management, specifically, the disconnect between traditional accounting software and the unique needs of contractors.
In this revealing conversation, Sy Kirby speaks with Caleb Smith, Co-Founder and President of ControlQore, about the financial visibility gap plaguing blue-collar businesses. Caleb, whose team combines construction experience with software expertise, explains how their platform was born from frustration with QuickBooks and the cumbersome patchwork of spreadsheets contractors typically rely on.
"We were hitting this wall of challenge around having visibility and control over our project financials," Smith shares, describing the pain point that drove ControlQore's creation. The solution? A comprehensive financial platform built specifically for contractors that connects every transaction to specific projects and cost codes.
What sets ControlQore apart isn't just the software itself, but their approach to implementation. Unlike other platforms that provide minimal onboarding and then leave users to figure things out, ControlQore's CEO personally oversees customer implementation. This hands-on approach helps contractors overcome the typical hurdles of adopting new technology while running daily operations.
The most compelling takeaway comes when discussing real-time job costing. As Sy points out, knowing you're losing money on manholes at installation #2 rather than #20 can be the difference between salvaging profitability and watching margins disappear. This visibility allows contractors to make corrections while there's still time to impact outcomes.
Whether you're a general contractor managing multiple trades or a specialty subcontractor focused on a specific craft, ControlQore offers adaptability without sacrificing power. The result? Owners report gaining back 20+ hours weekly while increasing net profit, time, and money that can be reinvested in growth or simply enjoying the fruits of your labor.
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Hey, guys, welcome to the Blue Collar Business Podcast, where we discuss the realest, rawest, most relevant stories and strategies behind building every corner of a blue collar business. I'm your host, cy Kirby, and I want to help you in what it took me trial and error and a whole lot of money to learn the information that no one in this industry is willing to share. Welcome back, guys, to another episode of the Blue Collar Business Podcast, brought to you and sponsored by our wonderful presenting sponsor, thumbtack. Guys, if you've owned your craft and you care about your results and you're spending too much time chasing leads that just don't fit, you need a solution that connects with you and your customers who appreciate your skills and jobs that fit your team and schedule and area. Thumbtack delivers just that, without subscription fees or pricing surprises. As your business grows, thumbtack's centralized tools automation keep things running more smoothly, ready to grow. Visit Thumbtackcom backslash pro and book your personalized strategy session today.
Speaker 1:Guys, we're heading off into the software space today. I, as you guys know, I'm very passionate about software. We talk about it a lot on the show. But, guys, I'm dealing with a little bit of a tickle in my throat, so I apologize. I've been trying to drink a little bit of water here. But, um, software in the blue collar space there's three types. I believe I've categorized a few videos about them. You've got the front of the house, you've got estimating, you've got sales, and then there's, you know, your project management softwares, and we can go off into all of those and what they try to generalize in and try and capture for your project management needs. But then there's always that back backend software that, most generally, that we're speaking to an audience of entrepreneurs I bet you guys are running QuickBooks, if I had to guess, currently Now there's probably some percentage of you running Sage, I believe is the other large one. But today, guys, I am joined by a gentleman that has used his wizardry of a team that Brainiacs, and they have produced a product that I believe is going to change the game here and help you guys. And it's not just one of all three, it's one all three in one is where I was going with that. It's one all three and one is where I was going with that Today.
Speaker 1:Gentlemen, I follow on LinkedIn, been following this company for a little bit, checked them out. I would like to say I'm an avid customer currently, but during our project management, changes and corrections, as I've been sharing with you guys over the past couple months. Changes and corrections, as I've been sharing with you guys over the past couple months. Didn't think that was an exact, perfect time to be switching softwares as well, as you guys know, implementation and retraining of your guys it's one of the most expensive things we deal with. But today, guys, I am joined by a gentleman who has an MBA in leadership, and that is something that needs to be shined. To follow that path and to be on a part of a team that somebody has that kind of accolade is pretty incredible. But avid, car enthusiast, traveler, family man and the co-founder of Control Corps my man, caleb Smith how are you doing, sir?
Speaker 2:I'm doing well. Si, it's good to be here. I can't dude, I've got to match your enthusiasm for life, man, just getting to know you more, this is awesome.
Speaker 1:Well, guys, we had a brief intro call. Usually when I bring guests on, we take 15, 30 minutes and try and talk about maybe what we're going to talk about through the show, and I kind of picked his brain a little bit. But, guys, I'm going to be learning just as much as you guys today and I'm going to kind of give the floor up to Caleb to talk about a product that is so unique. As you guys know, I'm very passionate about job costing, as we have learned how important that is and how important it is for the three words in our world is know your cost. And you know there's companies out there 10, 20 years still don't know those three words.
Speaker 1:And you know I just went through the pride and the ego shot of taking a step back and going hey, you don't know everything like you think you do, so get to the right people. But I went software chasing. As you guys know, I've done the Procore game. We have also done used Microsoft Teams, as we started small iterations of what we thought we needed for project management. But it's not just a project management tool that you guys have built. What you shared with me in the intro was almost relieving to me it's the replacement for QuickBooks in construction.
Speaker 2:Couldn't have said it better, Si.
Speaker 2:Talk a little bit about it.
Speaker 2:My guy yeah, yeah, you bet.
Speaker 2:So, just like you said, we are a group of general contractors and project-based accountants that really, as we were scaling and building a DC firm particularly my co-founding partner, JD he still operates as a general contractor Just hitting this wall of challenge around having visibility and control over our project financials, really understanding where the heck we were as a company related to projects, and just having that transparency over when you're transacting dollars in your company do you know where those are going and how much you're spending?
Speaker 2:And so not only having that visibility for your company but at a project level and QuickBooks just wasn't cutting it and, in addition to that, just having a lot of frustration around having this financial tech stack. That was just getting really cumbersome. You had to tie in a bunch of spreadsheets, maybe a few other softwares make it work with Procore, um, figuring out what to do there, and so really we decided to to set out to build this, solve those problems, been building it and making sure we get as much industry feedback, both from the field experience with software like this bookkeeping teams, anybody and making sure we build a solution that is aligned with the project-based world from a core accounting standpoint.
Speaker 1:You hit it home and that's where I was hoping you'd go with. That is that this team is not only super smart coming from the techie world and the software development world, but you guys also build things for a living. You also ran into the same problems that we ran into the oh my God, I've got to go to this program to get this sheet, to get this cut and fill, to match it against this Excel sheet. And you know my estimator still has four screens and we get it all spread out. And you know we build this schedule in this program to throw it's so all over the place. And as you're scaling and growing, you're like, why is all of this so hard? You know, and if you jump off in into the software, software world like we were doing, man, we were just tiptoeing. And man, the first couple of programs, the implementation, it all sounded so good in the sales call and I might poke at you a little bit today. I hope you're ready for it.
Speaker 1:But the audience literally wanting to hear this because we're talking about it a little bit in the intro, like the stigma of the software in contractor base. Like, guys, if you don't, everybody's basically got an accounting software, that's pretty much standard. But if you have tried to scale and grow and you've got multiple crews, job documentation, scheduling, daily logs, all of that wrapped up into, of course, once it gets to the next level, is those project financials. And when I've been through these softwares, man, where they're not even set up for contractors, it doesn't even the terms don't even make sense. Like where's a place to put a change order? What do you mean? It's not just.
Speaker 1:I wish I could just go hey, everything's 300 bucks and they pay me in two days. You know it just doesn't happen like that and they pay me in two days. You know it just doesn't happen like that. Things happen and change through the project but there's no way of properly documenting it. That's not to take your words, man, not just completely cumbersome, right? So software and contractors are already a battle. But from what I'm hearing, man, you guys are literally built this product from where. What phase do you guys kind of start? Do you start in the estimate phase?
Speaker 2:So we actually don't start in the estimate phase. We start generally once there's a contract in place Okay, and that's when the transaction occurs. So we are bidding and estimating is in the product roadmap. Um, we, we, we, with a little tongue-in-cheek, say, like control core is, we have built it. Every column of what control core is. It took billion dollar companies just to do like 20 of what we've done in the last 18 months. Now were we able to build it off the backs of, like what they all got wrong? Yes, absolutely. So we have an advantage there, right, but the component is like we have to get all of the foundational inputs correct before we can continue building out the full stack. And so that started as the core general ledger covering all of the accounting components and then making sure you had pathways to be able to manage and track and job cost every financial transaction that you have in a company.
Speaker 1:No, I really. Actually, our model right now is set up that CRM. We call it fantasy land up there in the estimation world because it's like, till that point of contract it really doesn't matter. Nobody past that office really needs to know about it, unless we need somebody to go take some shots or go build a quick surface or something like that to have an edge on some certain situation. But it's very, very slim to none that anybody outside that office. So we are currently set up on a CRM software upfront and it does very well.
Speaker 1:We've got some processes built within the what I call fantasy land of the hopeful land, the land of heartbreak. But past that point is, once it hits, contract is okay. When the contract gets put into what? And that's where we switch over to our project management software. We run our project and our project management software and then we transfer over into our financial software and that's where it sounds like you guys have really linked and it needs to be linked without it being some ridiculous process of input output. So it's a major problem. So talk about how a project. We've got our contract landed. We've got our subscription to Control Core. What's our first steps?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so once your project agreement's in place, one of the frustrations that I think can happen in a system like pro core is it requires that you have all the information, um, before you can continue to move forward. And how often is that the case in contractors world? Never, my guy, so. So that's a key difference that we wanted to make sure we started, just like giving that perspective like we live this problem Right, we know that this is not a solution.
Speaker 2:When you're like you know, maybe you have a phone number and an email and like one line of information and that's your, your start, right, like literally going, and then, and then the owner you know, cowboy Joe was like had his conversation and wrote the notes on the back of the napkin, right, like you got to work with that, right, and and you know, of course, I'm sure he's the dad of, like the new person who's trying to take over all the operations, right, and so you know, that's just kind of what happens in life and anything in between.
Speaker 2:And so we want to be able to start working with financial data, even if it's incomplete, related to the contract and the agreement, so that you can begin attaching transactions or attaching information to that, and so basically, you'd set up a project in Control Core and you'd be able to begin working with that. Whether it's in like, even if it's at the pre-construction level and not much is going on there, you can at least begin tying any cost associated with that to the project right. So now you're actually able to get that visibility of how much do we actually spend in the pre-construction of this project. That's like hammering your margins rather than. Well, we actually didn't have any visibility until costs came later, until costs came later and we had no idea that 40% of our margin was taken out actually getting this project off the ground.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, literally it happens all the time. There's a lot of guys probably listening going man, what are they talking about? They're just now learning about I'm just trying to figure out my overhead percentage and my indirect cost and trying to figure out how to bid for that. And you know they're just compiling it all into that. But the more you can get off indirect and the more you can job and correct me if I'm wrong conjumbled, maybe, potential project that could be game changer.
Speaker 1:They ain't got no information. Cowboy Joe just keeps calling you every Tuesday wanting a freaking number. The plans are halfway drawn together. There ain't no topo, there ain't no geotech, but it's a raging opportunity. But at the same time you've only got his phone number. He won't email, he won't do anything. The engineer sends you. I've been in those situations.
Speaker 1:But a lot of times we call them those pie-in-the-sky deals is what our estimator loves to call them. I love those opportunities. Putting those together and materializing them all the way down to a point of contract. It can be absolutely tiresome. A lot of estimators don't like that. They want a set of drawings. They want them to be the best potential possible when it does hit that point of contract and they hand it off and they can't watch it anymore. If they run up on that gravel line item and they've spent all their gravel in day one, they're like, hey, what were you estimating on?
Speaker 1:But a lot of these guys listening too, man, they're just finding out that, oh, I need to get that production data back to the estimator as quick as humanly possible so he can estimate fairly to a production level that we've produced. Yeah, exactly, and it's a cycle. But I'm so glad that you guys are. I get it. That bidding and estimating it's really cool to hear it's coming down the pipeline. But man, there's so many CRM platforms out there that do it really really well.
Speaker 1:And you're right, it's all. Yes, that's great, but a point of contract moving forward, but still being able to take those pie in the sky deals, start adding information, boom, point of contract. Here's the dollars, brass tacks and move on how we would break that job down in control core. Because job costing is something I just have really recently known about. That's one of those blue collar topic killers. Because job costing they're like oh I job cost, you know my gravels. There's no job costing through the project. You have estimated job costs, but what are your known job costs and talk a little bit about how that contract is broke down and how the job costing progresses through. You know invoicing and kind of highlight job costing for these guys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, great, great topic. In Control Core we try to create an environment which you can capture every transaction that's coming into the company and manage and tag those, move them through an approval-based workflow that aligns with the right people on the job and into your back office staff, and so, during that process, you need to have a structure that enables people to allocate costs associated with their, their, their correct um buckets, essentially, and so, um, you create cost codes, right, and so, uh, for, for a general contractor, that could be hundreds of cost codes. Um, you know, our, my, my, co-founder, jd, is his firms, they've got over 600 cost codes they run through, um, yeah, my gosh, yeah right um, he uses the CSI format.
Speaker 2:So, um, go ahead and, you know, do a google search on that, learn up on on what that means. But it's kind of a generalized format. But, that being said, so many companies are nuanced. They they customize off of that, they do their own thing or they build out their own. We help a lot of companies kind of come up with their own thing and we use a template as well if they want. But fundamentally, if you're a sub or specialty contractor, you might have maybe just 20, right it? It's significantly different picture.
Speaker 2:Now, what's very important is to know that how you're breaking down your costs enable you to drill into the specifics of those related to any part of the project. So it could be at architecture and engineering, or it could be in concrete, it could be dirt, it could be finished work, any of that, and then you drill down in. You know, is this like the wiring associated with that and what's type of can say, okay, man, we're getting killed on? You know, maybe there's some tariffs or there's an increase in steel pricing or this one vendor just randomly decided to increase their prices or whatever, and you would have no idea if you're looking at the general picture of your project around how profitable it was. Uh, when you say, okay, well, this is where the expenses are going so far and this is where, um, you know we projected this would be as far as like the original budget cost, but you didn't have any idea that that one vendor now it's just like increased their cost by 50% and maybe there goes your margin, maybe it doesn't, but either way, um, if you don't have that visibility when project ages blows it out the door with it being awesome and profitable, but project B just tanks to you and you had no idea that that happened to either of those projects. When you get to the end of the year and your CPA says, man, you guys made 2 million bucks this year, and you're like, that's nothing. What I was in my bank account right now, you know, and you're just feeling the pain because it does not translate at all across that.
Speaker 2:And so one of the other core things that we do is you have the job costing and, through the cost codes on those transactions, that allows you to get super granular in your projects. But then we bridge that into your company financials where we do a cost type, where you are now, and this goes into the Procore thing, where Procore has been challenging. Procore looks for that, and so in order to get information working well with pro court, you need to be able to uh have a cost type, and so what that is is uh it. If we have um drywall, for example, as the cost code, the cost type might be labor or materials, and so then now at the company level, you can really draw, drill in and understand where are my costs going at a labor level materials and you can get a really good picture from your P&L without having 600 cost codes screwing up your, your charter accounts.
Speaker 2:And like when you as an owner try to go in there, you're like I have no idea what's going on. I mean, we just saw somebody's chart of accounts. Where they were, they were literally taking cost codes and putting them in as um parts of their chart of accounts and they had over 300 line items on the chart of accounts to just try to understand it and bucket everything. And we're like, oh my gosh, you know and and, yeah, and, and we've seen that that kind of method is kind of being taught on youtube as like a way to do things and it's it's tough because it's like guys, if you do that, you're gonna be in a heap of of uh trouble in terms of understanding where you stand as a company let me tell you some.
Speaker 1:I am an avid youtuber myself. Shout out. But I mean there is things that I will definitely get perceptions from, but from financial and the way you run your company, man, I would not advise you guys to be following anything from YouTube. I have been very ill-advised over the years by people that were very close to me, even CPAs, and if I was looking out and making sure I was seeing all perceptions of the market, I may have been paying a little bit more attention.
Speaker 1:My guy is is you're hitting the nail on the head with job costing and you brought up the Procore thing and, man, we did a couple of years worth of Procore and we actually got hit in the head with cost codes. Man, we were a six, seven year old company. We didn't realize we just got given this ginormously powerful tool that we were nowhere even ready to strap on to our tool belt because we didn't even have the basics. Like, how's your implementation doing at the implementation level to integrate this software and get it live? Because I will tell you, the whole first year of Procore I dang sure didn't even get it fully live and then by the second year we were coming through thought it would really pull together and we still couldn't get past cost codes and all these. Oh, we'd reach out for help and then it would be another person and another Zoom call and I'm just sharing you with the frustration that we all feel in this market. That builds that stigma, my guy. But what's the implementation like with Control Core?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a big challenge in the industry, especially around software. It's a big challenge in the industry, especially around software. Like it really doesn't matter how cool the tool is if it can't be implemented effectively. I mean, the GC firm on our side took two years to get Procore going right and it's, like you said, a big lift, tons of work, right, and you know, you guys have, you guys have your businesses to run, um, you have fires put out, you have um projects to run and so the like. Just getting bogged down and getting the value out of the software you're spending, as is not something you want to be having a headache with. So that has been one of the key competitive advantages that we look to take to the market in terms of the time and the amount of touch points you have with us as the founders and with our whole team. Every one of our customers has our cell phone and we're getting calls at seven o'clock at night. Hey, dude, like, tell me, like how do I do this thing? Or whatever. Like we will answer your question right there. We also have, like we have a full implementation and migration process. So we'll, we'll migrate your general ledger and we, our team, handles that. So you're just business as usual doing your thing and we, we get that all taken care of. We build out the backend as far as all of your project data, your job codes, job um, your cost codes and your and your job uh information. We work on that and the thing is is along that way, we set up um every week at least 30 minutes of your time. We set up every week at least 30 minutes of your time.
Speaker 2:Brian Solomon, my co founder, our CEO. He oversees all customer implementation. So the CEO of our company company that's how high we we prioritize that and so he will meet with you for 30 minutes a week at least. If you need more time that week, we'll make that time and um, we will meet with you as long as you'd like. So there's no like well, you get like six weeks of implementation and then you're on your own. Like, we will train your team, we'll help them set up and what we do is we do it on like real stuff.
Speaker 2:So you say like, hey, I got this bill in. Okay, let's take a look at this bill and let's get this process. So, okay, we um tagged it, we put the information in, we job cost it. We moved into the next stage, feel comfortable with that, yeah, let's try another one. And then, okay, now you're good, let's, let's move on to the next segment.
Speaker 2:But either way, we're consistently enabling our customers so that, like this system, just like it, it feels like it's designed for them. Right, it and um, fundamentally, um, we, we, we, just we don't we want to be your key financial partner for 10 plus years, right and um, just handing you like a robust software like control core is not going to be the best thing there. So control core is simple and to be the best thing there. So control core is simple and it's fairly easy to use. Um, it's not like a legacy based software that's just gonna, you know, you're like I have no idea what the heck's going on in this software. Um, it's not overly simplified so that you can't accomplish what you need to, but at the same time, it's robust. There's a lot going on in there, and so one thing that's cool is our team really focuses on optimizing the personas who are logging in under their roles, and so if there's a project manager, an estimator who does need to engage with Control Core, or there's a controller, or there's an owner, they only see what's relevant to them and so that when you have approvals coming through for transactions, you only see those approvals for your projects that you work in right and you know what's what you need to handle. So that's, that's, that's part of it.
Speaker 2:We also we try to kind of apply a dial to this where, like, if you're super comfortable and you're like dude, I can handle any software that's having great take it. We'll still do implementation however you want, but you run with it. But others, like dude, I have businesses to run, I have people to manage. Let's turn that dial up. We'll help you with your bookkeeping. Our team specializes in project based accounting. We know, like how to handle that. We'll bring in fractional CFO type engagements, but in a package where you're not paying for a fractional CFO, you're just getting their insights and guidance without having to pay the monthly retainer. So you have cashflow forecasting, you have job costs and you're reporting all of that, but built for a small business Because and because you still have the complexity that, like a really large business does you just don't have the budget and the bandwidth right. So that's how we want to help.
Speaker 1:Dude. It's definitely a gap in the market. Dude, I have again been all over the map with softwares and I haven't really shared what I use currently. But we have integrated builder's trend. I think this is our second year. Are we super happy from the standpoint of it being billed directly for subcontractors? No, it's not.
Speaker 1:And here's the thing with us is like we GC some land development stuff, so we need the GC stuff, but a lot of times we're either a utility sub or a dirt sub on these commercial projects or et cetera. So it can be a wide plethora of range. But builder's train has been great. There's some things I would love for it to go further on. And we don't use any of the financials. I've already covered that. We use it directly for a project management-based software because we have found it. It's about the only thing we can actually get results consistently back from the field. Because I don't care how good the daggum tool is, if you're not getting consistent flow back from the actual end point and back up to estimation, then it's all design flaw to begin with. Buy GCs for GCs.
Speaker 1:It sounds like this is the project financial tool that every general contractor should definitely get a demo call and to have your CEO say take the time and implement because it is that big of a deal. Like you're, you're pausing somebody's life business. A lot of us it's. It's everything you know, other outside of our families, and um it, it. It puts so much strain and extra stress because it's not just running like normal. It gives the owner or operators or whoever's involved, the team involved, it's just so much extra headache. But to hear that level of implementation is did. I hear you say you would help build cost codes. Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 1:Man, where were you three, four years ago? But to your point, man, there's a massive gap in the market. For you do want to be, you want to have that back end ability I guess we would call it of those big boy companies, but at the same time, you don't have their indirect budget. Yeah, nope, you have to be sparingly, but at the same time you don't have their indirect budget. Yeah, no, you have to be sparingly. But if there's one thing you're going to be sparingly on, it doesn't need to be your financial software. You need to be able to. I love the word visibility and transparency that you use. Man, you've got to be able to see that, to be able to see that, and it sounds like not only will you guys help get it established and up and running and live, but it sounds like you'll also explain a little bit along the way. You know bookkeeping service and trying to help these guys.
Speaker 1:Because I can't tell you, caleb, the amount of guys that are probably sitting here going man, what's a cost code? Guys that are probably sitting here going man, what's a cost code? And don't feel any way, guys like, literally, don't feel any way. You don't know what, you don't know, I didn't know what I didn't know. I didn't until Sarah looked at me. And we can't go any further with Procore integration until we have cost codes. Do you know what a cost code is? I'm like I'm going to go get a job, love you. Like what was I? Who's I going to reach out to? We would have already had that person in place, if you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:So the, the level of implementation is always going to be, I believe, the stigma killer for you guys as you move forward, because if you can carry that out, man, um, it sounds like the perfect tool that you can track from point of contract to job closeout. And, yeah, is it decently user-friendly? You're hitting around about it, but the the one thing I couldn't stand about, pro course, how unforgiving it was once you went live with something. You know what I mean. Right, quickbooks has gotten a little bit from. We just recently switched from desktop. Over the years we were told that we had to have desktop and finally we moved back to online. That was a whole process in itself but, like I've always heard, quickbooks is very unforgiving. I used to run our books from first year to, you know QuickBooks online very, very, very high level, but it was there, you know, yeah, so yeah, that's a.
Speaker 2:That's a great point, and so I would say this like To use Control Core, you need to understand what it means to like a business. That's. That's it like. If you don't know that, then let's, let's go back to like, let's go and, um, you know, do a little bit of learning. But I fundamentally like that's.
Speaker 2:I think one of the biggest stigmas that, like the blue collar world gets is that people don't know how to run businesses. And yet I sit down with um prospects and customers every week and these uh owners, uh operators, are some of the most sophisticated uh people that I know and they actually know their software. They know their processes really really well. Um software, they know their processes really really well. Um, and so like knowledge around that is is rarely like a challenge. What, what is the thing is like. Control court um covers a lot of ground for your company, and so that's where it's like we do have to kind of show you through the software. We have to do some some some key uh setup for you to make sure that the data that's coming in is correct. But outside of that, what we do is we try to replicate muscle memory in the system. So when you get credit card transactions coming through. You've got the open transactions, you review those, you job cost them, you tag them to a project, you apply the data that you want, link the receipts and then it's submitted. Now it moves to pending approvals. You go through that process. Guess what the bill management system looks like? The exact same structure. You have the open bills, you go through the job costs, you tag moves into pending approval right, and so you don't have to relearn every step of the software every time. You can get into a new module and be like oh, I know where this is because it's the same process, and so that's like we have a full mobile application and that's great for the field staff. You're spending $500 at Home Depot and you can easily split that $500 across three different projects and apply the receipt there and job cost that and I've done this and it takes like 20 seconds on your phone and you're done.
Speaker 2:And so we tried to optimize for field staff and what's important there, as well as optimize for your back end. There's so many owners that I talk to. They're like, yeah, dude, we're doing good and stuff. And I'm like, hey, let me talk to your accounts payable specialists and they're just dying and I'm like, well, you have a really good accounts payable specialist or controller because they're making your life really easy and they're creating a lot of deliverables. How they do their job might be, they're going insane, and so let's talk to them about you know how we can make that process better, but either way, I would say it's user friendly, it's streamlined, it makes sense.
Speaker 2:That's one of the biggest things that points of feedback we get about QuickBooks Online, particularly around like trying to use that in a job costing environment, project based accountants, like it doesn't make sense, it doesn't, it's not intuitive, right? So, um, you know again, I say, like, control core is not like a basic software, it is, it is accounting. So if, like you, just hate accounting, no matter what, no matter what tool, then let's talk about our bookkeeping team and things like that. We can just get this done for you. But if you'd like to get involved with that and you love those systems and you want a tool that's even better and more optimized and makes sense and simple to use, then ControlCore is a great fit there.
Speaker 1:I think you hit the nail on the head earlier when you said I've met a lot of owners that are super sophisticated blue collar entrepreneurs, visionariesaries and man, I've met them too. They're unbelievable people. It's not from the lack of effort, it's just from the lack of somebody sitting down speaking their language for an hour or two. It's not that they didn't retain the knowledge, but it's a lot of times. You know that I have found, especially, you know, doing this show and sitting down with white collar professionals that are, um, extremely decorated and here I am a ditch digger, you know what I mean but trying to sit down and embrace that conversation so they can understand that. Hey, look, yeah, you need a little bit of bookkeeping knowledge and they may have gone. Man, I remember that time that Caleb said on that one podcast you know, I need to put a little bit of time. My wife's been after me or, you know, lady in the front office really needs some help on the bookkeeping. Yeah, get a little fractional help, man. I'm doing the same thing, man, get it to a point. But what it sounds like control core is is when you're ready to take that next step and you're scaling and you're growing and you need the visibility about where your money's going, because there comes a point, man, when you're. I grew fast, my God. I don't recommend it, um, but at the same time I did it and so I wish I had something like this in place three or four years ago that I could have had the visibility through the growth per project. Because, back to another point man, a lot of these guys you're giving a tool of accountability, because I had some dump trucks that were just eating us alive between payroll and drivers and maintenance and payments and I got these guys over here carrying the mail on the pipe crew and then my dirt guys over here he's doing pretty good for a couple of months and he just absolutely had a terrible month. Whatever the case may be, but how do you know what your business is doing? And a lot of these blue collar guys you may have HVAC company and you may be sitting there going.
Speaker 1:Man, I do a lot of my monthly reoccurring cash flow to be able to fund these large projects that I want to chase more of. Maybe if I ramped up more of my, you know, reoccurring cash, it's all about what I'm getting at, guys, not to go too far off in the weeds. There comes a point in time where strategy becomes a thing, becomes a thing, and whether you think it's not a thing, but budgeting, cashflow projections, forecasting the things I say that I didn't highlight, focus a lot when I was building a PsyCon in the first seven years out of the 10, and then I finally hyper-focused on it, but by then it was too late. I'm trying to build a freaking airplane as I'm flying it and I don't recommend that at all. And you know, sometimes it comes crashing and you've got to do everything you can to get her back in the air as fast as you can and it's. It's that rollercoaster of volatility, but volatility. I think I said that wrong, but they fact check me and they spell check me all the time on here.
Speaker 1:So anyhow but that next, you know you have a team of girls and they're trying on the bookkeeping level, but they need a software. They're scanning through all these Excel sheets every single time. You're like, hey, give me this. And they're producing these documents. Give them a program like this. Maybe not jive off all the way to the pro core level, don't you know? You may have a small. You're maybe like I started doing just literally project on Microsoft teams and we all shared it and that's where the job data went Okay. But how does that all transfer and tangle up? Get them a product like control core where they could start at the point of contract and visibly see every. The guys didn't for some reason order concrete out of a truck and they went to the dadgum Lowe's and bought a pallet of Quikrete. That kind of stuff affects margins after a while.
Speaker 1:And the one thing, the big analogy on job costing that I like to share, and a shout out to Mr Nick Peters. He was on episode 20, something of the blue collar wwwbluecollarbusinesspodcastcom. You can listen and watch completely free from there or any of your beautiful podcasts streaming services. Drop a rating and follow Shameless, plug there real quick. But the number one thing that hit home with me is a blue collar guy. I'm an underground contractor. He sits down with me and he says all right, cy, you say you know your cost and say I've got and the audience is probably tired of hearing me say this, I've shared it several times but it's stuck with me and it's perfect for the topic Say, we've got two guys bid to go do 20 manholes.
Speaker 1:Okay, they're bid at two days per manhole. Well, their crew has been rained out for a couple of weeks and Johnny said let's hop over billy's crew with the manhole guys. They needed the help. They you'll. It'll make it easier on them, okay. So now we got three guys right, so then spin around. It took him on the first four manholes. It took him four days a piece.
Speaker 1:Okay, when did you know that Johnny hopped on Billy's crew and made it a three-man crew? And when did you know that it took them four days of labor per man hole instead of your two days? Is it at man hole number two? Is it at man hole number five, 10, 20, six months after the job's complete? Never, I was at that, never part of the meter and I've slowly been working my way back and it takes time, guys all the way back down to live tracking and going hey, we're on our second manhole.
Speaker 1:The work in progress report shows us that we're bleeding a little bit here on labor, and why is the concrete bill on this so high? Oh well, they were going to lows. Whatever the case may be, guys, I'm just trying to bring light to it is that you've got to know it's your survival of your company. You've got to know it. Manhole Two to ten somewhere in there where you still have control over it, where 50% of the job is there to still make up and you can do something about it. And if you have a tool and the right people doing exactly what we've been talking about through this show and giving you that, it's very easy for the guy that knows how to go pour manholes, to go fix the guys going and pouring manholes, than it is for the CFO putting us six months after and going hey, here's your report. You lost your butt on that and this is why you know what I mean Yep, a hundred percent.
Speaker 2:And I think you call it a good point on the labor tracking and timekeeping too. Right, that's a big part of this, and we have some great partners which enable us to bring in the full circle Um it uh has, have innovative tools around uh timekeeping and job costing at the labor level, so that then you can know when you hope change those brought from project A to project B and allocate those expenses accordingly at the labor level. And so it's uh, it's a lot and you know it, it I, I, I understand why it doesn't get done, because you know we joke that it's like eating your vegetables. I mean you, if, if you don't eat your vegetables, you know where are you going to end up. But at the same time, sometimes you got to make the effort to do it.
Speaker 2:But the cool thing is is there is tangible business outcomes from this. I mean I was sharing with you some of those that we've had with our clients and you have tangible increases in net profit, right. This is profit that goes to the owners, profit that goes to the growth of the company, to the new office, to the nicer computers, to the cooler truck, right, all of that stuff that everybody wants and the progress that they want like that can't happen if that's getting all sucked back into the projects through their margins.
Speaker 1:Dude, you're hitting the nail right on the head, my guy. It's definitely been a different perspective to hear about. You know a number one. Thank you for you and the team for putting this product together, pushing it out there and go hey guys, there is another solution out there to QuickBooks. Solution out there to QuickBooks. Yeah, we don't own 80% of the market and gobble it up every chance we get as soon as somebody else starts. But hey, we're doing this built by contractors for contractors. And I think the last question I got here well, I got two last one that I always ask everybody on the show and it'd be kind of interesting from a software guy but the other thing was is we definitely we can hear that it's built for general contractors, but are you guys willing to take the time during that implementation and tailor it for more subcontractor based and move the modules around, or however that may be, to get it to what they need to look like?
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100% and I would say actually 50% of our customer base are subcontractors. So we work with epoxy guys painters we have one of the premier painters out of Chicago we love. We have restoration companies. We have all kinds of specialty and subcontractors across the United States and the dynamic nature of their specific, really regionalized subcontracting companies. That being said, control Corps is highly adaptable for their processes.
Speaker 2:The only thing that's not as ideal right now is our lean waiver management system. So we have lean waiver management in Control Core and it's built from the GC perspective. We're working to release a subcontractor directional experience there from the lean waiver management side as well. We were GCs first, so we were looking to solve that massive headache we had around managing lean waivers in there, and so we can do that and that's primarily a GC experience. That being said, everything else is highly adapt, adaptable, flexible for many different types of specialty.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, sub segments of the industry, um and uh. That's kind of why we haven't gotten into like the crm, like estimating thing. It's because of, like one, like you said, there's a million other softwares out there that do these well. And two, how nuanced that process is. You know everybody's estimating sheet and bidding sheets is like so unique to their own business um, but like the core financial and job cost accounting things are highly like, relatable across, even just being a gc and and a sub um and so, yeah, like that we we are fully positioned. So I would say like, honestly, our customer base is pretty much split, like we have half about GCs and half in the specialty and subcontractor side.
Speaker 1:Perfect. I would have felt like I was doing these guys a douche. That's the other main question. Number one of course, implementation struggles, but the other thing is the softwares I see often that are built for GCs subcontractors that are dealing with GCs every single day are trying to be accustomed to and tailored to what they're using as well. So then they jump and they buy the same program because they think it's going to be tailored the same and it's just not, and so I wanted to get that question answered.
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Speaker 1:Backslash bcbpodcast or click the link in the show notes. Slash description below. Thanks guys. Man, I ask everybody this question at the end of every single episode my guy and these blue collar guys, and I think you've probably dealt more from the mental pressures of this question. But what's the takeaway for that blue collar worker who was just sick and tired of being stuck in the mud and that could be taken from the guys coming to you so frustrated about not being able to see, you know from a project overview, or you know, emotionally or maybe even physical?
Speaker 2:yeah, um, I know it, it wears on you. Um, I, I don't have to spend my days out in the sun. Um, so I, you know, my first tax paying job was as a, uh, concrete foreman for basements. I, I, I formed basements and homes. Dude, it was waking up at 2 am to get ahead of the sun so that we could get off work at 12 and not just die, right, and you know that that's it's.
Speaker 2:It's challenging work and then and then moving that into, like, trying to run your company and all of like the cash flow, weight and requirements around paying people salaries and and bills every month and everything it weighs on you and what I would say is like, you know, we're a startup too, we're, you know we're, we're small business and we, we live those pains as well that you guys do and, um, one of the things that I is one never under invest in the team that you build around you. Um, it's, I mean, I mean you can't do it all. You, you literally can't do it all, and I think that is a a stigma that gets carried in the contracting world. Um, that you know they try to just cover all the things right, and maybe, maybe you did well that year, cause you did that. But then you got done with that year and you're like dude, I can't do this, this company, anymore, because I'm just dying. You have to find good talent to buy back your time and you will see, after a slight dump in the margin that it takes to pay for that, that you will see revenue increasing, net profit increasing, time.
Speaker 2:One of our customers got 20 hours of their week back as the owner um implementing control core and in our um in our partnership with josh. So, um, uh, you know immense like benefits there to now open up your bandwidth to work on the things that fill up your bucket, rather than just dragging you down in the mud. Dude, I hate doing this bookkeeping, I hate doing this stuff. I'd rather be out selling or working with my project teams, things that I want to be doing as a professional that I, you know, grew up to be or would like to be. And so think about the things that don't fill up your bucket and how you can bring in good talent that will allow you to just keep moving forward.
Speaker 1:Yep, be an expert in what you're an expert at and once you're not, bring the experts in man. Very well said, but very hard concept for a lot of us in the blue collar space to grab a hold of man. Caleb, I really appreciate your time today. Where where can we find control core? Where can they find more about?
Speaker 2:you, you bet, yeah, you can find us at control corecom. Um, if you're interested in setting up demo there, just click on the get started button. It will go straight to me. You get a demo with with me. Um, also reach out to me in my email. C as in charlie smith smith at control corecom. Find me on linkedin, uh, caleb m smith. Um, uh, so, yeah, happy to chat, always available. Um, text me whatever. We will meet you where you're at. So, um, we, we love. I don't think there are people that think about job costing and a project-based accounting more than our team. And so if you're, if you have questions and you don't even want to be a control core customer, like that's totally fine. If you just want to say like, hey, how can I do this job cost process better, we're happy to help you and provide value anyway.
Speaker 1:Only for you avid listeners of the Blue Collar Business Podcast. I really appreciate you guys tuning in for another episode this week. If it's giving you some value, don't mind giving it a share. Drop us a like, drop us a follow on, wherever you're listening or watching us. Mr Caleb, thank you so much for your time, really looking forward to shaking hands down the road at some event somewhere, I'm assuming 100% Cy.
Speaker 2:It's been a pleasure man.
Speaker 1:All right, man. Guys, till next time. Y'all be safe. If you've enjoyed this episode, be sure to give it a like. Share it with the fellers. Check out our website to send us any questions and comments about your experience in the blue collar business. Who do you want to hear from? Send them our way and we'll do our best to answer any questions you may have. Till next time, guys.