Ep. 92 - Fight for Your Crew: Changing Bad Policy Before It Hits the Field

The hidden cost of bad excavation data isn't just a hit to your bottom line; it is a direct threat to the lives of your crew members on site. When project owners withhold accurate utility maps to shield themselves from legal fault, field crews are left to dig blind, relying on paint lines that might not tell the whole story. We sit down with Sarah Magruder Lyle and Jerrod Henschel at the CGA Conference to look closely at why relying on basic compliance is no longer enough to protect underground workers.

We get into the specific operational bottlenecks that occur when field teams over-notify tickets, which accidentally forces utility locators to rush through critical safety checks. The conversation covers the legislative push for mandatory reporting, the ongoing efforts to remove municipal exemptions, and how the DIRT report is being used to accurately track fault. Jerrod Henschel shares his perspective on the financial realities of field downtime, highlighting why structured advocacy is the only way to challenge outdated state codes.

Fixing a fragmented system requires moving past finger-pointing and realizing that safety rules are dictated state by state. Every territory operates under a separate regulatory framework, meaning a process that keeps a crew safe in one county could lead to a severe strike just across the state line. True progress requires shifting from reactive problem-solving to proactive legislative engagement before bad policy is signed into law.

Transcript

Welcome And Sponsor Support

SPEAKER_03 0:09

Hey guys, welcome to the Blue Collar Business Podcast where we discuss the realest, rawest, most relevant stories and strategies behind building every corner of a blue collar business. I'm your host, Dyke Irvey, and I want to help you what it took me, trial and error, and a whole lot of money to learn the information that no one in this industry is willing to share. Whether you're under that shade tree or have your hard hat on, let's expand your toolbox.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

Welcome back to another episode of the Blue Collar Business Podcast, brought to you and sponsored by PayDerd Support. Ben Bruni and the team over there, you guys know I'm very passionate about the support they give the show, but their product and what they do with takeoff quantification. If you have a one estimator, a little overwhelmed, needing a larger project, taken off, get with them, shoot them over an email, shoot the plans, they'll walk you through it. Um, but also too, there's um you can move from there and go straight into modeling. And they can also teach you from takeoff quantification straight into modeling and how they get there. So check them out, patriotsport.com.

Live From The CGA Conference

SPEAKER_02 1:15

Guys, we am having a little hard breathing this morning up at 6,000 elevation. We're still at the Rod Moore. Let me correct myself there. Uh beautiful facility at the CGA conference. I am wrapping up an unbelievable experience and opportunity. We've had five different panels. We've been talking all about damage prevention, what 811 is, what it does, what CGA does, the involvement, and all the intricate pieces. We've talked about technology. We've talked about, you know, contractors across the table. We've talked about utility locators and what they're facing and what an owner of a project is facing. But today there's an uh uh most excited about this entire week, these two guests for sure.

Meet Jared Hensham And Sarah

SPEAKER_02 2:01

Um, Jared Hensham and the wonderful and one and only Sarah Magruder Lyle, president and CEO of Common Ground Alliance, and Mr. Jared, you are the president East Region of Quanta Telecom, correct? That's right.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Just give us a brief intro, if you wouldn't mind, sir. So I've been in the involved in the excavation community for almost four decades. Wow. Um involved in power telecom, tunneling, road building, heavy civil, just about everything you can imagine. Uh worked across the continental US, uh, Canada, Alaska, Hawaii, Guam, the Marshall Islands, America, and Samoa. Seen a lot.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

That's amazing. Um, Miss Sarah, uh, I've had just a little bit of time with you guys last night and it was wonderful at the dinner, but uh we we talked just briefly, but man, the one thing I've gotta say, when you're a leader, so I talk about leadership influences, um, and just how we treat our people on this show all the time. And the way I saw you with your people last night was really special. And so I wanted to, number one, shine some light on your leadership and the people I was around, the people I have met, the incredible team at CGA, up and down. It's an attestment to your leadership. And so keep that going up. Uh, but if you wouldn't mind sharing just a brief little bit of your background for the show.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

Sure. So um I am, as we like to say in Washington, D.C., a recovering attorney. Um, I've completed my 12-step program and have stepped out of actually practicing. But but in all seriousness, I've been in the oil and gas industry for most of my professional career. I've been upstream, downstream, midstream. I've seen the country, you know, be a net importer to be a net exporter, to be, you know, an energy, you know, uh one of the most energy dominant countries in the world. Um, so I've seen all the variations of that. So um, and you know, pipelines are are a major part of that.

SPEAKER_02 4:02

So the oil and gas, obviously, coming from the water and sewer background, it's a little foreign to me, but at the same time, I have learned through several oil and gas and folks that have been sitting here. But um, let's let's talk about your CGA involvement. Obviously, you're the head lady, your buck stops with you. But Mr. Jared, your very special role in DPAC, I'd like to talk about. We have mentioned in five different pods, every single panel. We have sat here and talked about DPAC. And for the contractors, you're talking to zero to five owners, you know, five to ten-year owners. Sitting here as a ten-year owner, I had no idea what DPAC was. And so if you wouldn't mind from the chairman himself, like just a little brief about what DPAC is and who it serves.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

Maybe

What DPAC Is And Why

SPEAKER_01 4:48

give you a little bit of the why first, right? So think about the experience that I've had. I've been very fortunate to see a lot of the things from really, really good damage prevention to absolutely non-existent damage prevention. Right? You go to Samoa, there is no McCall. You're on your own and figure it out, right? So seeing that wide variety of things, and I would say um it wasn't until about 2019 when we had a big incident with a locating firm that or a company that switched locating firms, and we went months without getting located. It's in a six-state area. I had hundreds of crews not being able to get out there and get anything done. We can imagine the financial impact it has to a contractor, right? Especially in the northern states, where we only have about a 40 or 45-week construction season because of frost. Every week we lose, every day we lose is precious, right? So in 2019, I started getting more engaged with CGA, trying to figure out I can either sit around and complain about this or I can get engaged and do something about. And as I got more involved with CGA and started looking at what we could do there, it became apparent to me that if we really want to see change, it's gonna happen, have to happen legislatively. Which is why you know we started thinking about how do we do that. CGA as a 501c3 is prohibited from lobbying. So we had to create a 501c4 and start the process.

SPEAKER_02 6:06

That's amazing. And so DPAC serves as that DPAC is that service, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:11

So like it is is really the mission is issue advocacy, right? So we're gonna get out to legislators, governors, state attorneys general and talk about what good policy looks like, right? So I think we have to move the needle, and that's the way we're gonna do it. And then we're really, you know, we're looking at things like exemptions. There should not be exemptions anywhere. There shouldn't be a municipality that can say, I'm too small, I can't milk pay. That should not exist. It should not. Right. And then you know, we've got a some utilities asking for exemptions on hand digging of drops in backyards. Why would you allow that when the shovel is the number two cause of damages? It's the second time third done. It just does not make sense. So exemptions are are high on the list of what we got to get off, right? And um what more of a long-range plan is mapping. Yeah, look, I'm I'm a big hunter, I see you're wearing camouflage. You familiar with on X maps? You look at the detail, you can get on Onyx Backs. It's incredible. There is no reason we can't have that for every single utility in the ground. So when a crew shows up on a job site, they're at the corner of 7th and Main Street, they could pull up an app and see, should I have yellow paint on this side of the street or not? And if they don't, they know they better stop and start asking questions, right? There's no reason we can't get there. That's gonna take a while, but we gotta start moving that direction, though.

SPEAKER_02 7:30

Just the technology in this room, you can walk around and and and you'll question yourself when you will walk back out in the field and you're like, the amount of technology in this room, just in this room alone, let alone the country, the mapping that we already should have, like we already should be further along in this process. Absolutely. Uh not just uh, we've got drones. Like we're we're not we're not asking people to take tape measures out in the field anymore. Yes, ma'am.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

The well, the interesting part of that is, and and you know, this all kind of you know came to a crossroads at once. So, you know, Jared got involved, um, Power Commun Communication Contractors Association is very active with us. And, you know, my board, so this was in 2022. Um the board's been talking, and I went, oh great, perfect. And we would like to challenge the industry to reduce damages by 50% in five years. Wow. So we put that, you know, announcement out in February 2023. And then Jared and I started talking. I said, We we're not gonna do this unless we change the rules of the game. I mean, everybody that's here at this conference, everybody that belongs to CGA, they're they're committed to reducing damages. They're not the problem. So the CGA board voted to comp uh create a completely separate group, separate board, separate finances, separate everything, right? Trying to you know, sep separate out what we do to actually go and do the issue advocacy for damage prevention. There's never been an association totally focused on damage prevention from the issue advocacy side.

SPEAKER_02 9:17

As a yeah, that's surprising.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

And therefore, there's never been anybody to advocate for that to be a priority. And so when you look at even if you think of the excavators or fiber or pipeline, you know, when they're in the states and they're looking at all the different pieces of legislation they have to deal with, some of those things are gonna take priority. We don't have we we don't have a permitting problem, we don't have a raid case problem. The damage prevention action center is solely focused on damage prevention legislation. And we've gotten a lot of traction because nobody's ever really paid attention to it like that, right? And it's not gonna be a priority in the states unless we make it a priority for states.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

And and bring the awareness. It needs awareness, evangelism, education. And wow, okay. First of all, thank you guys for doing that for the people that they don't even realize that that that's out there because it's it's my guys' lives that are at stake. It's contractors behind me listening to this lives at stake, and they don't realize that all of a sudden I mean it happens to good people. Like there's the preventable and the unavoidable uh the avoidable risk that we deal with every single day is on the top, top, top to ensure that everything is going safe out there. We are underground contractors, and things do happen. I mean, it is literally unavoidable. Right. And so we've got to do as contractors, as utility locators, as developers, owners of projects, but also associations, need to come together and we we need to find a common ground, no pun intended there, but literally a common ground and the liability

Liability Fears And Missing Maps

SPEAKER_02 11:01

issue. Before we get off into legislation piece, we have been sitting here talking through the three or four panels about liability, liability, because everybody's just doing this. And that's really kind of the bottom line, in my opinion, to the problem here. If you provide me as an entity or municipality, if you provide me a map for my locate of your existing utilities, I can almost guarantee you it won't get hit. That's exactly right. But why won't they give that information to me? Well, because when I do go hit it, that's the information they can use against me. So, and until we find this liability pointing problem and come to the table with the associations that are so important like CGA and DPAC, we're we're never gonna get there. And so, yes, ma'am.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

Well, you know, it's interesting. So um Jared wasn't at this initial meeting, but some of your guests from yesterday were when I started at CGA, I think I was about five weeks in, and uh I was asked to go meet with the excavators. And at that point, I think fair to say they were pretty frustrated with CGA. And the conversation was we get blamed for everything, we have to pay for everything, there's nobody backing us up. And I said, Look, you're always gonna be the one that causes the damage, but that doesn't mean it's your fault. That's right. And I think that was a real turning point for how the excavators got involved because at that point, the excavators, like I said, were frustrated. And Jared, John, and some other excavators really start pushing saying, This is our chance, guys. This is our chance to change how we play here. We can keep, you know, complaining about it or we can go do something.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

We can either be at the table or we're gonna be on the table.

unknown 12:42

Right.

SPEAKER_02 12:42

Right? Yes, sir. And I'm calling, you know, I've been sitting in this chair calling excavators out pretty much this whole week and has them send your kind of representation. You know, you guys, the utility locating community, obviously, associations, everybody is so extremely documented, right? Through the entire process, the one-call process, et cetera. The contractors, we struggle with documentation. And so when these damages and strikes happen, that's what I teach and preach on that show. Like it's not about work we can do, it's about work we can document we've done as underground contractors. You when you you're burying 95% of your work to never be seen again. That's that's difficult. And so when you get into these situations, we have got to be better prepared to be able to come to the table and go, no, this isn't my fault. And here's why. Here's the exact from contract to here, here's why it's not my fault to actually give some ammunition in this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

You know, some of the things that Jared and I have talked about, and we've talked about it a lot of our committee meetings and a lot of the panels we've had here is the when you think maybe you're doing something to benefit your stakeholder group and you don't think about how it impacts the process, you're actually being counterproductive.

Ticket Overnotification Hurts Everyone

SPEAKER_00 13:54

So one of the biggest points that we've been talking to the excavators about is overnotification. If you're calling in 30 sites, I mean, you're obviously not going to get to all of them in the next 72 hours or 48 hours, depending on where you are. That overnotification is actually stressing and already very stretched out, you know, workforce with locators, even thinner than it already is. So when you do that, yeah, there's a good chance that this this this, you know, the job site you need to work on first isn't going to get marked because they're scrambling to try to do all this. Because the locators, there's no other industry where you can call in 10 tickets or a thousand tickets and they all have to be marked in the same same time frame, regardless. If you call the doctor's office and they don't have an appointment for you, guess what? You're waiting. They don't have that choice.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

And that's where we've got to come together as excavators. I that has been a topic through the entire panel group. And I'm so glad because we had we don't have a clue until you guys share that information with us. I didn't have a clue. Now, don't get me wrong, we're a little bit more intricate with our locates nowadays, but that's just from past experience. But at the same time, I mean, that's all an education or experience is you learn from your mistakes, right? And so, but most of the time it's pretty costly in this neighborhood with damage or strikes or et cetera. But I gotta tell you, the urgency I feel here, I'm gonna kind of move us a different direction. The urgency here at CGA um is unreal. You guys want change. You guys want change on that side of the table. Uh, the contractors, I don't think, understand the amount of level that you guys are having to go to every single day in every single state. Let me just cover that with you guys. Every single state has its own legislative piece to this for rule change or policy.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

States are like snowflakes. There are not two states in this country with the same damage prevention law.

SPEAKER_02 16:00

And how, and how is that gonna, you know, that screens failure for the utility locator and the contract for a process failure, especially if you work in a tri-state area.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

I mean, if you you know, I live in the you know, DC metro area, Maryland, Virginia, and DC all have different laws. They have different regulatory processes, they have different tolerance zones, they have different exemptions, they hit different call times.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

You know, and I live in a tri-state area. Back to, you know, ticket volumes, ticket size, and we're gonna lead into this and how we create the change. As excavators, yes, ma'am, we absolutely have to do a better job at number one, the sheer volume of tickets coming across the table. Yes, it's a free service, but we have got to understand hey, if you're not gonna get to that 2,000-foot run this week, don't call it in. Call it in on Friday for the next, you know, two weeks coming. But just calling in 10 tickets for your mile-long run, it's just overcrowding the entire system. And then it's gonna create inaccuracies because he's got to rush through the ticket to get this contractor and my crew or whoever's screw standing out there going, hey man, come on, I want to get to dig and boss man test. I want production, you know. So it's just this bad dichotomy, but we have got to, on the excavator side of the table, have got to understand not just the volume, but also the size of the ticket. Jim uh Plazinski really honed in on that yesterday. It's not just the volume, the actual size of the ticket, reduce the size, it's going to create a better successful job for the contractor and the utility.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

I I want to challenge that it's free. It doesn't cost you anything, but free costs somebody else a whole lot of money. And and I think, especially with professional excavators, we have to quit spreading that it's free. It's not free because a lot of excavators have to have ticket management systems. They have to have an admin supporting it, they have to call back in, they have to do relocates. The facility owners are having to send out people repetitively. They're not there. I mean, there's a whole other set of costs there that it's not free. And it ultimately ends up coming back and costing the excavator money too. Because if you can't work, you're not making money.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

It's so good to hear from the very

Document Damages And Report Them

SPEAKER_02 18:19

tip top.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

Like I want to touch on something you talked about earlier about documentation of the work you're doing, right? You think about when a damage does occur, you got to make sure we're taking really good records of all the facts of that damage, right? To make sure you're protecting yourself. And take that a step further. If you have those records, you should be sharing them with CGA. They have this tool called the Dirt Report, damage information reporting tools. And I'll tell you, the excavation community was not participating at the level they should have been. And if you just go back four or five years into the past, the records were showing that excavators are at vote like 70% of the time. Right. We started really putting an effort into the trade association saying that whether it's DCCA, PCCA, all the big digging organizations, you've got to start recording. And we're we've gotten better. And the records that the statistics have flipped. Now it's we are not at fault 70% of the time. It has changed drastically, right? So it's very important that you report. And that leads into another thing. One of the things that we're pushing for in state is mandatory reporting. Yes, right. Because until we see at a state level what's happening, who's at fault, that's the start of how we start fixing the problems. We have to understand it first before we can fix it. And and where there's bad actors, we want enforcement. Right? So we have to have bampedor reporting, and we have to have enforcement. And that goes 360 degrees. It's not just enforcement on vexcomer. It's enforcement on locators, this informus enforcement on the utilities.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

All the utilities, not just enforcement on the oil and gas operators, which gets to the legislative feast that that I know you've wanted to literally.

SPEAKER_02 20:08

That's exactly where I'm going, is that you know, we just talked about a whole plethora of Pandora's boxed problems. And honestly, as contractors, we don't even understand what you guys are up against. It's way over our heads. And if we can work on volume size, the simple tasks that you guys are asking us to do, so you guys can keep waging war for us and the utility locators. But take us through number one question I know everybody's going to be asking.

Why States Set The Rules

SPEAKER_02 20:37

Why do we have 50 different? I understand our country's set up that way, I understand, but 50 different laws and policies and bot that that's just set up for absolute failure. How do we how do we fight the system and at least get everybody on the same level playing field? And that would help in successfully cross the entire country. It makes too much sense to my brain. But I need some help understanding that, and so does every other contractor, because you know, I live in a tri-state area. I could be in Oklahoma in 45 minutes or Missouri in 10 minutes, and we work in all three different little areas, but I didn't even understand truly that I'm under three different jurisdictions of law. I had no idea. I thought 811 was 811. I'd know my lawfulness, you know.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

The original 811 law, which established 811, is the floor. Every state has to have at least one 811 center. So wherever you call in the country, call 811, you get routed to your one-call center. The only federally regulated utility we have is pipelines. So therefore, there's been this philosophy here for a long time. Well, if we can just get things into the Pipes Act, which is you know the the the Pipeline Safety Act at the federal level. If we just get it in there, everybody else will. Everybody else will follow. Fiber will follow, power will follow. What they don't. They won't. And the biggest challenge that I've had, especially coming from because when you look at the oil and gas industry and the pipeline industry, because it is so heavily regulated and it's federally regulated, there's a whole different level of safety, of you know, process, of reporting that nobody else has. And I've really been trying to, you know, it will reinforce to them that if nobody else acts in your right-away like you do. Nobody else acts in the pipeline right away like the pipeliners do. They don't have the same potentials penalty risk, they don't have well perceived, not ignition risk. They don't and they don't usually nobody goes after.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

So even the qualifications, right? When you look at it from that level, right? Yeah. As an excavator, if you want to work for a liquids pipeline company, the standard that you have to meet as an excavator is extremely high. It's the highest in the industry. Right. And then I would say second to that is going to be distribution, gas, and power. They're right there. Because the things that they they have, their their facilities could potentially kill you. Right. You go into things like telecom, waters here. If you've got the equipment and you've got the little bid, you've got the work. That's it. You're not wrong. Sure. So if the challenge is most of those excavators are the ones that will do the damage to the things that are going to kill you. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

That's the problem. And and they're not being penalized at the state level. So we actually had um the deputy administrator of FIMSA, the Pipeline Hazardous Material Safety Administration, which is for the Department of Transportation here this week. He said, You guys got to go to the states, right? I mean, the the vast majority of damage prevention laws are regulated at the state level. There is some, which is the floor for pipelines in the pipeline, in the Pipes Act. But that is not where we're going to get to balanced effective enforcement or mandatory reporting because they don't have the authority to do that. They can't go after fiber or water or powers. So we have to go to the states. And and I think the deputy administrator was put pretty clear about that. We need to go to the states and fight for what we need.

SPEAKER_02 24:37

Contractors need to get a hold of your state legislators and uh start bringing this conversation, get DPAC involved, maybe become a DPAC.

SPEAKER_01 24:45

Hey, how do I like to mave a pitch for that, right? So it to be a member of DPAC is $5,000. Okay. Think about this. You've got a a boar crew, a pile crew, an earth moving crew shut down for a day or a week. What's the cost of that? Downtime is just I I promise you, all of your listeners have probably had it happening more than one time the year, if not more than one time a month. So we can either sit and complain about it, or we can get engaged and try to actually do something about it to change the normal that we have today.

SPEAKER_02 25:17

It's exactly why I'm here. Like, truly, number one, the invit the opportunity, the urgency that's in this room. I believe we have the opportunity for all of us to be sitting at the table, and there is people in this room that we'll carry back to the state level. But it's also up to contractors to get involved with associations that are created for us to urgently get your voice heard. Because I promise you, I hear more about ticket management and wait times than you'd ever want to believe. And but at the same time, we've got to do our piece. Everybody has to do their piece. But to create actual change at the state level, to I'm gonna pick on Arkansas because we are behind the times. Like, Governor Sanders, please. I will help you. I'll do whatever I gotta do. Um, but we are 100% like positive response. I didn't even know what that was until I was sitting at this table yesterday. What that's an amazing feature. Like, right why is that not an absolute federal requirement across the entire country? It doesn't even make sense to my brain. That just we're talking about people's lives at the end of the day. My guys, standing in the world.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

And it's your as I was gonna say, but it's the excavators' lives. And we've had that discussion a couple of times, you know. Step back when it's not you and you start looking at numbers and money and and and and you know, all these KPIs and what things are, and and and but they're not the ones putting the shovel in the ground. They're not the ones putting the backhoe in the gam ground, hoping that the map was right so that the locator could do their job so that you don't hit something that could ignite or arc or spark or shut down a 911 call center or leave a community without water for days.

SPEAKER_02 26:59

Just trying to do its job. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

Just want to touch on one other thing here. Some people might think, okay, they're asking for money, what's it really gonna do for me? Is it gonna be effective? Whatever. Several years ago, it's probably been 10 years ago now, myself and a couple other people, members of the PCCA, Power Contractors, the Power Communications Contractors Association, started a lobbying effort. Started out just grassroots, um eventually got some professional lobbyists involved, would get us meetings in DC, did us meetings at the agency, the FCC, USDARUS, and I saw the effect of that. When when common contractors could walk in, talk to an agency or a legislative, and we were representing companies that are anywhere from five employees to five thousand emperors, and we're all saying the same thing, and we are all job creators, we get their attention. They listen to us, right? So this can be effective. We just have to have people get engaged.

SPEAKER_02 28:02

From all around the table.

SPEAKER_00 28:09

And that's what's important about CGA and the damage prevention action center, right? I mean, CGA is the damage prevention industry, but that is made up of 15 different stakeholder groups, right? And locators, excavators, water, power, sewer, gas, fiber, insurance, emergency services, um, you know, road builders, right? All 15 of those industries are part of the damage prevention industry. And when you walk in the door of CGA, right, it's time to put your damage prevention industry hat on. Because if you can't get outside of your own silo, we can't fix this. That's right. Because you have to think about how your actions are impacting everybody else in the process. And the one call centers, they're an important piece of this because they're the hub. They're the nucleus of all this. But they too are also, you know, sometimes hamstrung by state law. They can only do what they've been, you know, allowed to do.

How Contractors Drive Policy Change

SPEAKER_02 29:07

You know, if you guys wouldn't mind, talk about what it takes to get policy change, law change within the state level, because everybody's going to go, well, what do I need to do to get involved? Number one, get a part of DPAC, yeah, CGA as well. At the same time, go to your state legislators, have those conversations, but what do they even need to be asking? You know, we're we're just a bunch of ditch diggers at the end of the day, and we're we don't even know what we're asking for, but we're willing to fight the fight because it's our people's lives at stake.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

But you're the economic driver in your community.

SPEAKER_02 29:37

True.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

And and I mean, let's call it what it is, right? If if if you're, you know, if your crew's not working, they're not making, you know, you're they're not making money, they're not getting paid, they're not spending money in the community. I mean, it is, you know, it is the economic impact all the way around. But we can't wait until we see a bill that's already out there and then start going, oh, we don't like that. We have to start educating state legislators and policymakers and, you know, the regulatory utility commissioners and the attorneys general before that, right? Some states are gonna have opened their law this year, some are planning on opening it next year. We have to be at the table and say, this is the right way to do it, not let the special interest groups get ahead of us and say, but we need this.

SPEAKER_02 30:25

It's just so cool to hear that we actually have people out there fighting for us from the contractor perspective. And did I had no idea? I had no idea. I hope we can use the tools that we have to be able to really amplify this out. The DPAC, I'm really excited to be a part of it, truly.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

Um thank you for being our newest member.

SPEAKER_02 30:49

You're welcome. Absolutely. I figured that would come at some point. But uh truly, just the advocacy of it. Like, it's important for the entire table. I keep saying that. But talk about, you know, you're right, we can't wait till a bill hits, and then we're like, hmm, well, uh, no, we need to have a good understanding from all collective efforts. This is exactly laid out. So when that does time period does open up, because I didn't even know that's a thing, open law, closed law, whatever. Uh, but at the same time, when we do have that opportunity, hey, here's what we've got, here's the resources we compile to get this information to you. We believe through all of the table, this is exactly the best effort to move forward with. I had no idea. So we've got to get involved. But how does DPAC have meetings? Talk talk a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

Yeah, there's regular meetings, and you know, there's board meetings, there is uh a political action group that's basically making trips to the government affairs. Government affairs group, sorry, that is um making trips to the hill, right? Going to Washington, DC, talking to the legislators. We're also working on using AI as a spider web across the internet to try to track down legislation that's being talked about across the country. Um and then really looking at you know, it's constant issue advocacy, talking about what good policy really looks like, what bad policy looks like, making sure they understand the ramifications of bad policy. And then I think, you know, when the state law is being talked about, there's plenty of opportunities in a lot of states where there's an opportunity for people to come forward and testify, right? And DPAC and its representatives will be there. If you're a member, you'll have an opportunity in your state. We'll notify you it's happening, and you may have an opportunity to get on the on the floor and talk about why you don't want this to happen, why why this matters to you, right? When those opportunities come, it's important.

unknown 32:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

Or even submit a letter for the record. I mean, we've written a lot of where where they didn't have a an open hearing or we weren't invited to speak, but you still write a letter and we make sure that all the associations do that when we have the opportunity, so we can push back. I mean, I've gone and testified, I texted that testified in Texas um last year. Um, we've written a number of letters, both to state legislators and uh to uh on the federal side. Um the the Pipes Act actually was unanimously passed out of the Senate yesterday, which is a big win. And you know, the pipe pipeline reauthorization act has not been passed. There hasn't been a update in three or four years. Um and this is a real opportunity. And and and you know, right when this administration came in, we we would joke and say this is actually the only thing that the Democrats and Republicans agree on was this. And even when, you know, look, when Senator Cruz and Senator Kant well agree on something, we should probably consider moving it. And on the House side, um, it's out of of the Transportation Infrastructure Committee, but energy and commerce still needs to move their version, and there's there's some back and forth there. But the one thing nobody has taken issue with is the damage prevention section. It is the one thing that everybody agrees on.

SPEAKER_02 34:02

Wow. Well, if they agree on it, we've got to start at the state. We've got to get involved with DPAC. DPAC will help us at that state level, is what I'm hearing. We're not in this alone, but you can make a difference sitting in your seat, driving that truck every day. Your voice can be heard. And that's where a lot of us, we're just tired of talking about it. We're literally sick and tired of it. We've figured our ways to deal with the systems that we've got to deal with. And I'm just being real awkward and honest at that level. And and we don't even know that we can create change. So today was literally, I wanted to hear about how we create change, how it could be excavators. Come to the table. Number one, get involved, CGA, DPAC, get involved with your state legislators and just bring the topic up. If you're telling me that at the federal level, we all agree on something, what are we doing? Almost. I totally understand, but we need to have a sense of urgency. That's right. And we need to we need to get a plan of action and we need to execute at every state because it's y'all's guys out there in the field, whether it's oil and gas, water and sewer, uh, I do not care. It's people's lies. It's their homes.

SPEAKER_00 35:10

It's uh makes me well and and you've you've heard, you know, the conversation here this week. There, there's more more than a few people have said there there's a different, there's a different vibe here this week. That you know, that this is the it's time to go act. I mean, it's it's time to stop talking and it's time to start walking.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

Well, I will say CGA is leading the head for sure. Um, every single committee member, every single piece of the puzzle has been an A plus absolute stud at what they do. And I'm just honored to be a part of it. And I'm just so it's so cool to just now be finding out about this 15 years in the industry. But that's where I can come in and hopefully help that. And and we all need to evangelize and just bring awareness that these um actionable items are already being taken place. We just need to voice, get together, come together. We're not gonna agree on everything, but we've got to find something that actually serves a purpose for everyone at the table. It's called the word compromise, and it takes some time. But um, that state legislative level, I'm excited to get back, honestly, and um how far we are behind in Arkansas. We're I'm gonna do everything I can to change that truly. To to hear the things that are already being done in the country, we haven't adopted them. There's no excuse for that.

Best Practices And Final Calls

SPEAKER_00 36:33

Well, that's our best practices, right? And I assume you had the best best practices committee co-chairs on here. Um that they are doing the work. They're doing the rubber meets the road, where the rubber meets the road work. Um, those best practices, and in Missouri actually, you know, um adopted a law last year that said you have to follow CGA best practices. Um, FIMSA put out an advisory um earlier this month and said, it's National Safe Digging Month, everybody. It's time to follow CGA best practices. Um National Transportation Safety Board, they actually issued a recommendation to us um in in their final report from the West Reading um explosion that killed seven, I believe. Seven and said, you need to update your one-call membership best practice because people were that that's the one that who has to participate in the process. So, you know, there there's a lot out there that is happening, but the best practices are are where it's at. And and that team does a tremendous job. But the key is what can we live with? And that is something that for a while we'd gotten a little stagnant in best practices, and it was the, you know, the no. We just don't like no, we don't like that no. And the excavators were were a bit of that problem for a while until um our chairman at CGA, John Flew Hardy, who you talked to, he, as he said, he, you know, all the work gets done at the bar, he took everybody at one of the meetings, said we're we are not gonna be the anchor anymore. We're gonna be the both. So time to get on board. And the excavators have been very engaged, aggressive, helpful. And and and that's that is how best practices are now. What can we live with? We all have to give to make it better for everybody.

SPEAKER_02 38:29

We uh I had missed shout out to Miss Rosemary. Shy I sat down. We actually talked about the best practices 22.0 and the living dog tin. They're always working on it. I heard from the entire committee how passionate they are, just uh literally to see their passion about driving the change. Totally free resource for you, cja.com for act, I believe. Common groundalliance.com. Thank you, man. For the correction there. Hey, and the book, I believe, carries a small cost, but it's in Spanish as well. 38%, I think.

SPEAKER_00 39:00

It's accessible online. You can look at all the best practices online.

SPEAKER_02 39:03

There you go. That's exactly what I was trying to get at. Um we need we need to be urgent. We need to be, we need to move. We need to and the leadership here that you guys are guiding us with, we just need to give you the ammunition that you need. And uh we need to come to the table. Big contractors, small contractors, but when we feel represented, valued, big things can happen. Uh but we've we felt unheard for a very long time. And uh the urgency in this room to move forward, I'm so glad to be a part of truly. Thank you guys for the opportunity. Um I cannot talk about CGA conference, any the level um the vibe you just said earlier. That's the word. I hate to be unprofessional, but literally the the vibe here is different. It's uh yes, there's a professional tone to it, but everybody's concerned. The the networking in between the booths, the uh the breakfast, the the speakers, everybody is all concerned with the same thing, and it's damage prevention at the end of the day. We have got to get more involved, guys. Thank you guys for your time today. Number one, hearing the legislative piece, I think is probably gonna open up some eyes. Um, most of these guys have no idea it's at the state level, then the federal level. So I appreciate you guys expressing that. DPAC, we've got to get we've got to get some more contractors in there as and really give the feedback that you guys need desperately. Um, and committee and panel eyes. So can't I don't think I really have anything else from the from the legislative piece. Um, I just want to say thank you, truly, for the conference, um, but also to the opportunity to bring every committee member here, talk about it was just so vulnerable. You guys really showed who you are this week, and I can't thank you enough for the opportunity. John Flewarty, that guy. This is the passion everybody individualized. I'm trying to get the point across is that you've got a team fighting for you guys. You just need to get involved. So um check out paydirdsupport.com. Miss Sarah, thank you so much. Absolutely. Jared, thank you so much. And uh, guys, if you're not here this year, check us out. We're gonna be in Tampa, Florida, CGA Conference.com. I don't know the exact date on that, but you know, okay. You know, mid-April. Mid-April, there you go, in the beautiful Tampa, Florida. So uh I have a feeling I might be there next year. Hope to see you there as well so we can actually sit down and talk about some of these issues together, guys. Till then, you guys be safe out there, and we'll talk soon.

SPEAKER_03 41:44

If you've enjoyed this episode, be sure to give it a like, share it with the fellas, check out our website to send us any questions and comments about your experience in the blue car business. Who do you want to hear from? Send them our way. We'll do our best to answer any questions you may have. Till next time, guys.