86 ~ Seven Types of Friendships

Have you ever considered that all your relationships don't need to serve the same purpose? In this episode, we explore friendships, and dive into seven categories of connection that enrich our lives in different ways. 

We decided to reference ~ Lane Moore's book "You Will Find Your People," we unpacked how soul friendships, chosen family, long-distance connections, situational bonds, trauma-bonded relationships, surface-level interactions, and one-sided friendships each play unique roles in our social landscape. Rather than judging these varying depths of connection, we celebrate how each serves different needs at different times in our lives. It was refreshing to reference the book categories while also speaking about our own experiences. It definitely felt like a renewed celebration as we touched on some possibilities. 

Episode Highlights:

• Not every conversation needs to open the "back of our heart" or lead to transformation
• Soul friendships provide rare, deep connections where we feel truly seen and understood
• Having capacity for intimacy requires personal growth and emotional regulation
• Long-distance friendships thrive with technology but in-person time reveals new dimensions
• Situational friendships (like with coworkers) can be enjoyable and serve important purposes in our life
• Trauma bonding happens when connections form around shared difficulties rather than growth
• Surface-level friendships allow for light, enjoyable interactions without emotional investment
• One-sided friendships occur when effort is imbalanced, often requiring self-awareness
• Different friendship types serve different needs at different times in our lives
• The expectation that one person should fulfill all our needs is not only unrealistic it also leads to disappointment

We'd love to hear your experiences with different friendship categories. DM us or write a review on Apple!

P.S. As promised, here's a list of the 7 types of friendships we discuss in this episode:  For more details and insight, check out the book You Will Find Your People, by Lane Moore.

1. Surface-Level Friendships – These are casual acquaintances or people you interact with in social settings but don’t form deep connections with.
2. Situational Friendships – Friendships that arise due to shared circumstances, like coworkers, classmates, or neighbors. These connections may fade when the situation changes.
3. Trauma-Bonded Friendships – Relationships that form due to shared difficult experiences, where the bond is rooted more in mutual pain than in mutual growth.
4. One-Sided Friendships – Friendships where one person puts in significantly more effort than the other, often leading to feelings of imbalance or frustration.
5. Long-Distance Friendships – Friends who remain close despite physical distance, relying on texts, calls, or visits to maintain the bond.
6. Chosen Family – Deep, meaningful friendships that feel more like family, offering the emotional support and unconditional love that may be missing from biological family relationships.
7. Soul Friendships – Rare, deep connections where you feel truly seen, understood, and accepted for who you are. These friendships can be lifelong and transformative.

Chapters

• 1:24 Honesty in Sisterhood
• 4:15 Conversations and Possibilities
• 8:05 Soul Friendships
• 16:35 Exploring Different Types of Friendships
• 28:31 Trauma Bonding and Bus Stop Conversations
• 37:02 Surface Level and One-Sided Friendships
• 51:34 Finding Value in All Friendships

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:08

Welcome to Desire is Medicine. We are two very different women living a life led by desire, inviting you into our world.

Speaker 2: 0:16

I'm Brenda. I'm a devoted practitioner to being my fully expressed true self in my daily life. Motherhood relationships and my business Desire has taken me on quite a ride and every day I practice listening to and following the voice within. I'm a middle school teacher turned coach and guide of the feminine.

Speaker 1: 0:36

And I'm Catherine, devoted to living my life as the truest and hopefully the highest version of me. I don't have children, I've never been married. I've spent equal parts of my life in corporate as in some down and low shady spaces. I was the epitome of tired and wired and my path led me to explore desire. I'm a coach, guide, energy worker and a forever student.

Speaker 2: 0:58

Even after decades of inner work, we are humble beginners on the mat, still exploring, always curious. We believe that listening to and following the nudge of desire is a deep spiritual practice that helps us grow.

Speaker 1: 1:12

On the Desires Medicine podcast. We talk to each other, we interview people we know and love about the practice of desire, bringing in a very important piece that is often overlooked being responsible for our desire. Welcome back family and friends. Oh, it's been so wonderful to just meet up with the lovely Brenda. She is here, as always, looking fabulous and just always backing our desire to record and be of service. We have had, or I have had, we haven't had, I have had a few tech issues, so hopefully today will be as smooth as can be, but we just don't know. So we are at it, doing our best with what we have, and that seems to be a theme that continues to pop up for me. I am just doing the best I can with what I have, and if I look back, I'm still saying to myself oh yeah, back there, I just that version of me did the best she could with what she had, and I want to invite you all to do the same With that in mind in here, doing our best.

Speaker 1: 2:16

When we started to hit the 80s in recordings on the Desire as Medicine podcast, Brenda and I, we were talking about like how can we be people that people are honest with, Like how can we be a safe place to really hear honesty? Then we had this lovely episode where I was crying and we talked about spinning and what it feels like to just be reveling in your story, feeling like queen, victim of whatever's occurring and how life is just happening to you, et cetera, et cetera. And we landed on this gorgeous place of sisterhood and the power of high-level relating. That would be episode 82. And we just explored honesty, because honesty really makes sisterhood so much juicier. Who wants to be relating with another human? That is just not being 100% transparent. It's possible. It's just not as enjoyable. And when we think about possibility we also covered that in 84, talked about possibility and how amazing it is to see someone else show us something. That would just blow our minds.

Speaker 1: 3:36

Recently I heard someone talking about a different coach. I'm in a course and she said this phrase like I've definitely straddled and made sure that I don't overwork. I've had an area of time in my life where I really experienced burnout. And she posed this question of like were you really physically burnt out or were you just exhausted by the thoughts you were having? Were you exhausted by the feelings you were having? And just in that conversation. It opened up so much possibility for me. So much is available to us when we are just in conversation with what's real, with what's in the room, and you just don't know how big of an impact you have on another human. And not every conversation has to take us to the other side of transformation, where you're on the floor, guts open, saying you just changed my life.

Speaker 1: 4:30

Sometimes I'm having a conversation about. Right now I'm watching the series on television. It's called Doc. I find it super fascinating because it's about a doctor who loses her memory because she was in an accident. It's about a doctor who loses her memory because she was in an accident. I don't have to go into all the details, but I can chat with somebody about something like that or talk about Reacher how hot he is, and like there's another season of that on Prime. Like not every conversation has to be like oh, my goodness, I wasn't burnt out, I was actually hating my emotions. Like not every conversation that I have with another human has to open all the doors in the back of my heart or shoot me to the point that I'm just like crying at tears and like Brenda's saying thank God, Brenda, go ahead, Come on, this is what we're talking about today.

Speaker 2: 5:18

Yeah, thank God. Thank God every conversation isn't going to open up the very back of our heart. That's not even realistic. Sometimes it's great to just talk about what we're watching on TV or the weather. The weather could be really fun to talk about. A friend of mine said, depending on who you're talking about, talking about the weather could be different kinds of conversation, like there's even many levels to just that.

Speaker 1: 5:43

Yes, there is so much there. I mean so much so that Brenda and I were talking about this the other day and she mentioned this book I don't know if you happy listeners know it. It's called you Will Find your People by Elaine Moore, and she definitely explores different types of relationships. Brenda and I were like we want to talk about this, especially on the Sisterhood series, because the ultimate goal isn't to have deep conversations 360 all around in your life. It's just not possible. Just like you can't have an amazing day every single day or be in the best mood Right now I'm giggling just thinking about a woman's body and her menses. Like when are we exactly in the best of moods all the time? It's just not feasible, right. Like some of it is gonna be super yum in life and some of it is gonna just suck. Amen.

Speaker 2: 6:37

Also, if we're talking about real life, we're not ever in the same place all the time. Nothing is ever the same and we talk about that a lot on this podcast, about how, if we're living in the rhythm of nature, we are always in change and we're experiencing life in many different facets. And if we expect things to always be the same, so if we expect, say, deep conversations wherever we go, we're kind of missing out. I love deep conversations those are my favorite where you just get into that deep heart space and there's like that connection and there's an actual energy that's present. It just feels so good and you feel like you're touching each other's souls and you remember it forever. But it can't always be like that.

Speaker 2: 7:24

So this book you Will Find your People by Lane Moore a friend of mine actually was reading it because she was exploring friendship and she was telling me about how she was looking at friendship and her sisterhood in her life to have more of what she actually wants, and I just loved her approach. I think we've all experienced different kinds of friendships. Loved her approach. I think we've all experienced different kinds of friendships, but have we really sat down and defined them? Like, what are the different kinds of friendships.

Speaker 2: 7:54

I think we all have heard the phrase we have relationships for a reason, a season or a lifetime, and that's really true. And what I love about this is that she goes in even deeper. And so Catherine and I thought let's explore this. You know, we're over here talking about sisterhood for a couple of episodes and really talking about what's possible, and Catherine and I do have a soul friendship, and I have a lot of soul friendships in my life where I feel truly seen, where I can really be myself and I can mess up and be honest. They're transformative. These are soul relationships, but they're not all like that and that's not a bad thing. I think we could just be neutral and, like you said, Catherine, in reality, with what something is, can we just meet it for what it is?

Speaker 1: 8:49

Yes, there's so much breath there. It's like can I just be with what is what's real, not have to transform it or change it, and we can start like in the book. Lane has a section for soul friendships and she talks about it as rare, deep connections where you feel truly seen, understood and accepted for who you are. These friendships can be lifelong and transformative, as Brenda said. But not every relationship is going to be a soul friendship and I'm just going to speak from my own experience. I understand the desire for it.

Speaker 1: 9:28

I remember going to different events or retreats. I would go away for three, four days and I would say to myself this this is what I want. I want every relationship to be this way. And I remember I think it was 2015, I was leaving a particular coaches event. And I remember, I think it was 2015, I was leaving a particular coaches event. I was in maybe Arizona, sedona, I don't know somewhere over there where it's very warm, and I'm looking at all the cactuses and desert grass and I said to myself I want this forever. I want this. How do I have this be part of my everyday living? It's the best way to describe it now, in hindsight, in 2025, it's been 10 years is that I was really hungry for that sort of relating right. What comes up for you, brenda, around soul friendships.

Speaker 2: 10:18

I was so hungry for it, just like you said, I wanted it so badly and I didn't know how to have it. I had it in a couple of places in my life or, like I said before, like you could touch on it, like that feeling. Usually it happens maybe it's sleepovers when you're a kid, or even an adult, like late at night when everything's done and there's nothing left to do, when you've stayed at dinner way too long and it's the best thing ever. I really wanted that and I really tried to create it in my life and there were moments that I created it, but it wasn't really until I dove into my own personal transformation and put myself into rooms with other people who really wanted that kind of connection that I really started having it.

Speaker 2: 11:11

And I would say now, 17 years later, I have that every day. I have that every day in my relationships and also I am that like I'm able to go really deep, I'm able to hold good space for people, I'm able to tell the truth, I'm able to receive truths and all of those things. So I embody that right now and I also have all the other kinds of friendships as well and they're wonderful. But going back to what you said, being hungry for it. I think that we really do all want these deep soul friendships, and we don't always know how to get it.

Speaker 1: 11:49

And I want to say that for anybody listening. If you don't want it, that's okay too. Like I understand that I think there was a time where people would ask me really deep questions. I want to say in my 20s potentially, because I was really big on like meditation and being still and stillness and a lot of my retreats or events they were sort of like that. So a lot of Tai Chi, qigong and stillness and heart opening exercises, but it wasn't a lot of talking or conversation. It wasn't that style.

Speaker 1: 12:25

I wasn't in those rooms and if somebody was poking around too much I was like why are people poking around? And by poking around I mean like asking really deep questions when I felt like, oh, this came out of nowhere, why is this person asking me this person? I had this like hierarchy at that time of you and I are not that cool. You'd be asking me these questions and that could just be the New Yorker in me. I'm like you don't need to know all that. There's this background in New York I think when you were from the city, this Italian background of you.

Speaker 1: 12:58

Don't ask people really deep questions because, like, whatever they want you to know, they tell you. So you're not digging in there unless you're cool. It's like so I would you to know. They tell you. So you're not digging in there unless you're cool. So I would say to myself does this person think that we're really cool like that that they're asking me these questions? But now I could be with a complete stranger who asked me something that's super deep and there's a really high percentage that I'll answer it, because I don't have the same level of safety requirement around secrets. Right, I see Brenda's eyes widening.

Speaker 2: 13:30

Yes, Now that's beautiful the way you said that, but I want to go back to what you said. Not everybody wants that kind of friendship. I'm so glad you said that. Here I am over here saying we all want that. I think a lot of people really do want that and I would even argue that deep down below everyone's hurt and wounding and traumas, that they really do want that. I think that we really are built for that. But of course, with people, people can get hurt easily. They've been burned in the past, they've had bad experience, whatever kind of trauma it is that you're carrying in the world, or karma from your past lives, if you believe in that. Some people just don't want to be bothered because it's too much effort or it hurts too much or it could be expensive to yourself, and so maybe they don't want that. So I'm my mind over here is a little blown.

Speaker 1: 14:26

You know what's coming up for me. It's sort of like when you say everybody wants it, it's possible. But I think there's a question that we can ask ourselves Are we ready for it? Right, yeah, like is the person. Like, was I in my early 20s ready to just expose my heart myself to anyone? No, I wasn't in that space. Now I can hold myself there, I can regulate my own nervous system, I can talk about really tough things. I mean, I was just talking to Brenda about this not that long ago. I didn't like to cry, even on Zoom, I wanted to mute myself. Now I can record an episode where I start the episode crying. It's range, right, it's capacity. So, yes, brenda, I think that, yes, mind blown. And are we ready? There's other factors in soul friendships, like am I ready for it? Are you ready for it? Can you hold and regulate your nervous system in it? Because when you share about something that was really painful or you go to a really deep place, it's emotional.

Speaker 2: 15:34

It is and it's vulnerable. It's really vulnerable and when you're vulnerable, there's the possibility of getting hurt. As we grow and learn and we have these experiences over time and, like you said, if you really want it, if you really want it, you're going to learn how to be the person who can have it, and I think that takes a lifetime, maybe I don't know a lifetime, if that's accurate. I don't know. I don't know the answer. It's different for everybody.

Speaker 1: 16:06

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 16:07

But I think that we build our capacity over time. So you said in your 20s you weren't maybe able to go to the places that you can go to now. I certainly couldn't. But did I have deep relationships and friendships? Yeah, I did. I got married in my 20s, twenties and we did go deep. We had a soul deep relationship. I don't know what I would think of that now if I was in it. I don't know. But when I was in my twenties it was great. But it does change over time and I think we change over time and we grow and what we want and what we feel is possible changes over time 100%, and I also want to say that I probably had a more tier system than you did in my 20s.

Speaker 1: 16:52

Yes, there were people that I would go close with, but it wasn't everyone. My circle was a lot smaller. My availability was a lot smaller than what it is now. I think now I have a lot more capacity for it, and I would say that part of it is, yes, I don't want to get hurt. Another part is just sort of boundaried and range, sort of really choosing when and where and with whom, being very intentional about who gets access. I think we've talked about that too in the past, right, brenda, when there is capacity for something, right.

Speaker 2: 17:30

Totally. I mean there's times in our life where we have capacity and space for a lot of deep connection. For instance, I was just in California for six weeks with a bunch of women. I went to this specific town in Northern California because I have friends there and it was friendship every day. It was like getting together with women and co-working and dinners and going out and events. Oh my goodness, it blew my mind with what's possible. It was wonderful and I had the space for it. I mean, I intentionally created the space for it and also I had to expand into that.

Speaker 2: 18:09

The first few days that I got there I was seeing friends every day and then I was suddenly exhausted and I realized, oh, this is a really important piece of desire is that when we have our desire and I have a desire to have close women friendships in person and here I was having it every day but when we have our desire, we do have to build our capacity for it. And I didn't have the capacity for it because my relationships on the East Coast actually look a little bit different. I'm not with women every day, like you, and I connect over Zoom Hopefully we'll see each other tomorrow but I see my friends in person, but not every day. No way, it's just the way it is around here it just doesn't happen. So I had to build up my capacity to have it, because I was tired at first I had a headache. I'm like, wow, I need a little break here to rest, to give my body space to integrate my desire to be with women and actually have the space in my body to have it get anywhere.

Speaker 1: 19:11

It doesn't matter where you're going, it takes an hour. It could be 10 miles, like one mile, it's taking an hour. It's a bigger city, more people, more congestion. So yes, there's other parameters that we're working with in this arena or this area, this location, that maybe other cities don't have to deal. But I love that you had that, I love that you had that time.

Speaker 1: 19:41

And I mean there's another category here. It's almost like Brenda's experience could fall into two friendship categories One, long distance friendships, because she's talking about California. She visited there and it's the long distance friendship Friendships. Plural is friends who remain close despite physical distance, relying on text messages, calls or visits to maintain the bond. And a little bit of a combination here, because potentially some of these friends that brenda's talking about she's going to let us know soon could be chosen family, like deep, meaningful friendships that feel more, feel more like family, offering the emotional support and unconditional love that may be missing from biological family relationships.

Speaker 1: 20:24

And I just want to tag here that I don't know how many biological families have support, emotional support and unconditional love. I know that it's something that people want and people talk about. I often hear, oh, my family doesn't, and I'm like whose family does. Where is this Brady Bunch reality? Who lives that life? I know very few people that have it. I feel as though, no matter our conditions, there's a certain level of potential dysfunction or discomfort or challenge. Right, brenda, what comes up for you when I talk to you about your long distance, aka chosen family?

Speaker 2: 21:09

I love that. It's really interesting. When I was looking at this list, at this long distance friendships, I thought, oh yeah, this, this group of people they are. They feel like chosen family and soul friendships. They are also long distance friendships and two of the women that I went to visit in California I've been in a women's group with them once a week since 2019 or 2018. We meet once a week for all these years and so we've gotten really close and we've seen each other through a lot of highs and lows and we've really been there for each other, sharing on Zoom our deepest.

Speaker 2: 21:50

Everything it's possible to maintain friendships like that over technology makes it possible to be really deep. So I want to be with these people in real life. So I got myself to California. I mean, we had a whole road trip around it and I was there for six weeks and one of the things I was really thoughtful about because I've had long distance relationships before so this is different.

Speaker 2: 22:16

It's long distance friendships, but some of the dynamics could be the same, where you could end up going into fantasy about who these people really are, and being in person is different. It just is different. So I was very mindful to notice any fantasy or any way that I put these people on a pedestal just to notice. Is this happening? Are they so amazing and like nobody around here is so amazing? Because that would be a red flag.

Speaker 2: 22:48

I didn't think that, but I was just very mindful of noticing any time I would potentially fall into that. And it is different if you are seeing people over Zoom and texting versus being with them in person. You know, people are people and we do our people things and people get tired, they get, they have feelings, and so interacting with someone in person is quite different and it did create space for that, which I'm grateful for. And then also the beautiful thing about it is that you get to be with people for who they really are and show yourself for who you are. You know, like some of my own imperfections came out because I'm there for six weeks. It's very different than who I am for an hour or two on Zoom.

Speaker 1: 23:44

I love that comparison who you are for six weeks as opposed to an hour on Zoom. That happens for sure in romantic relationships, especially if they're long distance, because seeing someone for a few days can feel very vacation-y, honeymoon-y, right. Versus being with someone day in, day out or having them really close by being 20 minutes from someone or seeing them, living with them very different than just this once in a while sort of we see each other for dinner or Zoom for an hour, dinner for an hour and a half every month, or it's not the same right. And I love how this is organically going to relationships and the conditions of the friendship, whether it's long distance or in person. If it's an hour, three hours a weekend, right.

Speaker 1: 24:32

Because another section of the book she talks about situational friendships, friendships that arise due to a shared circumstance, like coworkers, classmates or neighbors. These connections may fade when the situation changes, and Brenda's talking about when or in her circumstance here in this example. She flew to California and meets with them once a week but actually spent time and space and got to see them in person and everybody gets to be with each other, with their imperfections. But how about when that's not the case? You change jobs or, potentially, you were part of this women's group or program, or maybe you were part of a 12 step and you're not going to that 12 step anymore. You're going to a new 12 step, or you're going to a different location, or you move from location to online. These situations, like the circumstances, do change the relationship.

Speaker 2: 25:26

Yes, they truly do. But what I want to say about situational friendships is how great they are. They are the best I taught for 22 years. So a lot of those would fall into this category and it did have really good friends and our kids were friends and our spouses were friends and we would go out and we would go to parties together and blah, blah, blah all of that. I don't do that anymore with those people, um, but technology makes it so that we can connect on Facebook, which is really great, and have a lot of love for these people we taught together for 22 years.

Speaker 2: 26:03

I have so many memories of the friendships that I had. I'm going to give this great example. This is really one of my favorites. It ties in a couple of things. Okay, remember Seinfeld? Did you watch Seinfeld, catherine? Okay, she's saying yes.

Speaker 2: 26:18

So when Seinfeld was actually on TV the days before things were live streamed, it was on Tuesday night. I think it was nine o'clock at night. Every Wednesday morning was the best day of work. We would go in and we would talk about Seinfeld and it was all live. Everybody watched it live and we would talk about it. We would have lunch and we would talk about Seinfeld and we would laugh at the jokes and like unpack the episode and we created this. These fun friendships at work. That was the best. And how fun is it to complain about work with people Like you're in this shared situation, the shared environment, and only you know about it and you know all the ins and outs and the dysfunctions and who's this and who's that, and it is fun to chit chat about that. I don't know what that is, what kind of friendship that really is.

Speaker 1: 27:17

It's just based on the moment it might be moving into trauma bonded, I think so. Trauma bonded friendships are relationships that form due to shared difficult experiences. So, whether it's work, or you have a particular relationship and you speak to other women that fall into that relationship or other men that have similar relationships like that, so it's shared difficult experiences where the bond is rooted more in the mutual pain than in mutual growth. Right, so it could be. I'm thinking about things that women talk about.

Speaker 1: 27:55

Oh, for petite women. Oh, I can never find a dress that I don't have to hem, or pants I don't have to hem. Or, oh, I'm getting my period. I never have a pain-free period. Or, oh, you know, I'm going to do some bad ones. Or I don't know if they're bad. Ooh, the internet, I'm about to say something. Or when women talk about potentially getting a yeast infection post-sex or having UTIs post-sex. These are things that we talk about and bond around that are not the most enjoyable conversations. But you are experiencing an annoying something maybe it's PMS or something like it and you want to talk about how it's helped. Yeah, and I think it's how you talk about it and you want to talk about how it's held.

Speaker 2: 28:40

Yeah, and I think it's how you talk about it depends if it falls into this category, because you can certainly talk about any of those topics that you just mentioned and just run your energy and collude, or really talk about something and really getting to the heart of it and have some openings and potential resolution around it, and receiving each other's wisdom and telling the truth and sharing from a vulnerable place, I think is very different than just colluding about it. I had a friendship, a very long friendship, that really at the end it was completely based on trauma bonding. It grew over time and we would mostly call each other to complain about our husbands and only find each other right Always, finding the husband was always wrong.

Speaker 1: 29:39

I love that you were always right.

Speaker 2: 29:42

I mean, I look back now and I'm like, wow, I really could have used some reflection and truth back then.

Speaker 2: 29:48

But she couldn't give it to me because she was in her own trauma with her own husband, like we were both really. You know ACA, adult children of alcoholics and dysfunctional families running our patterns so much, not able to see our own wounding, blaming everything on our husbands and feeling victimized by it and then going to each other to just talk about that and validate our feelings and it's very validating to have someone who's also has some trauma in a situation. Just validate you and hey, maybe that's part of the process that led to healing. The other thing that women really complain about is their kids. I talk about this a lot the bus stop conversation. The women are complaining about their kids or they're complaining about their husbands or they're complaining about the housework Really boring shit.

Speaker 2: 30:44

But it feels good in the moment and for people who are I think, the women doing that, first of all it's a surface level situation where you're standing at the bus stop, maybe you don't know what else to talk about and also you're probably just so overflowing and stuffed up with all of these feelings and thoughts and no outlet that the bus stop feels like a great place to talk about it with other women who really get it. But it is kind of trauma bonding and it just like feeds the fire. It doesn't really help anyone, but it feels good in the moment to have someone look at you and say, oh yeah, I totally get it. The other thing I want to say about that is mostly, yeah, they're listening to each other, but there's no attention on one person. It's just like, oh yeah, let me tell you about mine and then somebody else tells you about theirs, and it's like throwing hot potatoes around.

Speaker 1: 31:47

Nobody's really listening because everyone's so messed up. Well, I think it's a time to take some space, right, everybody wants to take space and you're not really intending to get to a resolution. You're sort of like this is my pain, I'm dumping this, and then another person gets to dump and everybody's kind of dumping right, and there's time and space for that too. I think. And yeah, there just is time and space sometimes to just dump.

Speaker 1: 32:15

I know that now we're so much more sophisticated you and I, miss Brenda, where we could be like hey, I would really like to vent for five minutes, 10 minutes. Can you hold space? Maybe I have withholds We've done episodes on that or maybe there's something else that I would really love for you to hold space for me. We have more tools now for that and I think probably potentially I'd hope more skill in regulating ourselves so that we don't have to use that tool. But I think there's a time in life where potentially, that's it Like for moms. You're just bringing up something that has me think Women who have little kids and who haven't seen an adult in days, who haven't had an adult conversation in days, and they're just like this is what happened.

Speaker 2: 33:10

It's so hard and you take what you can get and if you don't have the community or the tools or the sisterhood that we're highlighting on this podcast, then yeah, you're going to unload at the bus stop and there's nothing wrong with that. I've done that. There's so much more possible is what I'm mostly trying to say here.

Speaker 1: 33:30

Well, you have something to compare it to right, exactly. So you're like looking at something in hindsight and I also want to point to like my God, I mean, when I look at my thing at my meditation days in hindsight, I'm like, wow, I really was not available to connect with any strangers. I was like you are not my chosen cool person and so, no, I am not talking to you about anything, I just would listen and not share a damn thing. You know, it was so cultural for me. I was raised in a house. Nothing that happens in this house leaves this house, and that's big conditioning. How do I now go out into the streets and just tell everybody what's going on, like, no, you're not supposed to show the mess right and to get to a place where now, yeah, I can show it, but it's taken some time and I really forgive that person, that version of me, and also know that it had its purpose in place, right.

Speaker 2: 34:30

Yeah, I think everything has its purpose and we grow along the way. And let's just talk about the bus stop. That can feel great, great if that's all you have and it's priceless. Let me just say that it is priceless and even my friend that I was talking about, that I would call and we would collude priceless at the time and it was what I was ready for at the time To have someone who gets it like oh, you're having a hard time with your partner, with your husband, you're having a hard time with your kids. This one threw up the dinner. Nobody liked.

Speaker 2: 35:05

You know, people are complaining, nobody wants to get out on time, people aren't going to bed to have somebody actually understands that all have the need to release and dump, whatever you want to call it. If we all get backed up, I don't care who you are, especially the world that we're living in right now we have far too much information available at our fingertips, in my opinion, or I've experienced, and we have emotions that build up and feelings and thoughts and even great things. It's not just negative things. We have great things.

Speaker 2: 35:41

I have so much to share about my four month road trip. So we do get backed up at times, and we do want to let it out. You do it how. You know how to do it. Maybe it's at the bus stop right, or over the water cooler at work, and what you mentioned before was you and I, in particular, have a whole bunch of tools around it. So, even though I'm not off gassing at the bus stop anymore, I have practice of withholds. I do fear inventory and how to write. I have spring cleaning tools. Sometimes I'll just ask you or another friend to hold space for me, but I don't want to give the illusion that I or you don't need to ever dump or release things.

Speaker 1: 36:28

No, now we have consent.

Speaker 2: 36:31

Exactly, we have consent and tools. Yes, yeah, because it's not great to just dump your vomit on people, it's not great and it feels great when somebody says, hey, do what you like.

Speaker 1: 36:49

If you message me, hey, do you have a minute? I just need to listen. I'm like, yeah, and the structure provides so much permission because, let's say, you say to me I just need you to hear me out. I'm like, okay, great. You know, sometimes when we're listening, we have that masculine come in inside of us where I'm like, oh, what do I need to fix? Uh-oh, what if she's asking me a question? But if I know ahead of time you're just venting, I'm like, cool, great, yeah, shoot, do your thing. I'm like, all right, do you want to say anything else? How about now? Anything else? How about now?

Speaker 1: 37:18

And then it's like normally somebody's like, oh, I'm so glad I needed to share and hear myself. And I'm like I totally get it. And actually the other day I was talking to Brenda. I don't remember what I was off-gassing or sharing about, but Brenda said to me I hear you and I see you. And I think that was the third thing you said. You said I hear you, I see you. You said something else and I can't tell you how delicious that felt. I was like, oh, she heard me, she sees me. That was enough.

Speaker 2: 37:52

I love that. I do remember when I said that to you I think I said you were seen and heard and that's a 12 step thing that comes from 12 step. So if you share in 12 step, they not always but often will say you're seen and heard. And it is really beautiful to be received in that way, because at the bus stop conversations nobody's really saying that they're just going on to their story because they're so backed up that they're like oh well, let me tell you the horrible story that happened in my house last night with my kids or my husband and nobody saying I see you and I feel you and I heard you and then actually pausing and not coming in with your own story.

Speaker 1: 38:38

It really does make such a difference I can't say it or stress it enough Whenever Brenda's so good at this, whenever she says you know you're seen and heard, or it just feels so good Like something happens in that space. But I don't think, not, I don't think, I know I didn't have that skill before. So I'm giggling and laughing and it's funny that I'm like, oh, we do it with consent now and there's systems and tools, but it does actually feel better.

Speaker 2: 39:08

It does feel better and I'm really, oh, we do it with consent now and there's systems and tools, but it does actually feel better. It does feel better and I'm really grateful for it. It kind of takes away the drama, and at the bus stop you probably could get your feelings hurt because somebody wasn't listening all the way. As compared to if I call you and I say, hey, can you listen to me for a couple of minutes, it's very different, and then I know that you have the capacity to do it. I also trust your yes and your no where you might be like well, I can't right now, but call me in three hours.

Speaker 1: 39:39

I trust that. There's also a piece that if you say to me I can't right now, for whatever reason and we're trusting each other in it I get to turn somewhere else to get my needs met. And then I get to turn to you and say thanks so much for being available. I was able to like be heard and seen. And then you know oh, my friends handled, I didn't have to do it for whatever reason, and we keep moving right. I don't have to tell every single one of my friends my vent piece right.

Speaker 2: 40:09

Exactly. I think you're bringing up a really good point too, that we don't have to be everything for everyone. We don't have to be everything for everyone and our friendships don't have to fulfill all the parts of ourselves, just like our romantic relationships are not going to fill all the parts of ourselves. It's just not realistic, and I think that if we're really in reality, then we know that, and I think the expectation that one person is going to fulfill all of you is some old romantic notion that really just leads to disappointment.

Speaker 1: 40:47

Yeah, I'm going to just out myself and say I think that the times in my life where I wanted somebody to be everything, I was just being lazy and I wasn't willing to form deeper relationships with more people.

Speaker 1: 41:02

I think that was part of it, in addition to potentially growing up feeling like I was part of the witness protection program, of which I was not, but just being told all the time like whatever happens here stays here, and so not being willing to share.

Speaker 1: 41:20

And it took a long time for me to become someone that, going from not sharing to then sharing, to then sharing so intentionally that I because I think there's also a fear, right, I remember at a time I don't remember exactly when, but I can recall touching a place, like, oh, I'm going to share this and I hope they don't share it with someone else, right, like where there's this whole privacy thing, like I want to share my secrets and I hope nobody shares my secrets, right, and becoming the woman that, when I share my secrets, even though I would like to have a certain level of privacy, understanding that people are human and that somebody might share something of mine and am I willing to back it, becoming the kind of person that once something leaves my lips, I know it's left and it's out there and being willing to hold the weight of that. Becoming that woman felt a lot better for me than holding someone else on a pedestal as if they had signed an NDA for me, like a Madonna or something.

Speaker 2: 42:36

Madonna, I love it. Okay, I'm going to shift gears a little bit, because there's two other kinds of friendships on our list. There's seven here that we're talking about and people we will review the names of them at the end, where we decided that we would go through these in a linear fashion, but that is, of course, not what happened at all. So there's two more that we haven't talked about that I do want to touch on. One is surface level friendships, so these are casual acquaintances or people you interact with in social settings but don't form deep connections with. What would you say about that, catherine? I love these.

Speaker 1: 43:07

I love these drive-bys. I love that Because they're probably those are the moments where I get to talk to them about things. It's almost like I'm thinking of bank accounts, credit cards, assets. It's almost like why would I want to spend my deep conversations on someone? That's surface level? I want to be able to spend my surface level conversations on surface level, like I want to be able to talk about that doc series, I want to be able to talk about how hot Reacher is, but I don't want to spend that time on the person that I can have deep conversations with because, yeah, I want to be intentional about what I'm having. So that's what comes to mind for me. I'm like, oh, casual acquaintances, yeah, I get to talk about.

Speaker 1: 43:52

You know, what good movies have you seen? Have you seen anything? I really love comedies. What's the last comedy that you saw? Or I get to talk about and shoot the crap, shoot the shit, as they say about things that I wouldn't normally get the chance to, not because it's not available, but because I'm spending my relationship coins wisely. You have relationship coins.

Speaker 1: 44:16

Yes, I get to cash in my chips.

Speaker 2: 44:19

I love that. That's so good. I love how much joy and approval you put on surface level friendships, because you could have a judgment about that. Oh, surface level oh, I love that, it's great. It's so great. There's so much joy in that. This is one thing I loved about my grandmother she would talk to everybody, no matter where we went. My grandmother was having conversation the grocery line, you know the hair salon. Mother was having a conversation the grocery line, you know the hair salon, the store, the playground, everywhere, and you just talk to people about whatever it's in the moment and it's really lovely.

Speaker 2: 45:06

I think that's where magic can happen and that's kind of where we're meeting life on life's terms. It's like here I am in the grocery store, can you just talk to somebody? Or if somebody's talking to you, right, are you talking to them back, and you may or may not be available for that. Sometimes I don't want to do that. Sometimes I'm like don't talk to me, and other times I'm like oh yeah, I'm really really available and juicy for a conversation with a stranger right now.

Speaker 2: 45:34

I had this recently. I took a friend for a medical procedure when I was in California and I had a couple of hours to wait and this person just sat down at my table where I was eating lunch and said, oh, can I sit here? And I checked in with myself and I thought, yeah. And he started talking to me and we just had this really nice conversation for a while and I really enjoyed it. It wasn't going to be any more than just surface level conversation and then I reached a point where I felt complete and I told him I was going to get back to my work and that was it. It was really enjoyable. I want to be available for that kind of thing in my life. I want to be like my grandmother where I could just talk to anybody about anything.

Speaker 1: 46:16

Totally, I want to be able to talk about, to talk about why is this not coming out? I also want to be able to talk to anybody about anything like, just not feel restricted.

Speaker 2: 46:32

Totally All right. Last one Ready One-sided friendships, friendships where one person puts in significantly more effort than the other, often leading to feelings of imbalance or frustration. This is a really good one, because clearly there's something that's not aligned right. There's someone who wants more and someone who's not available and not exactly communicating it. It feels like both people are probably not communicating it.

Speaker 1: 47:05

I have a lot of experience with this one. I would say, okay, I'm going to read it again Friendships, where one person puts in significantly more effort than the other. I would say that has been me, often leading to feelings of imbalance or frustration. I can't say that I really feel imbalance or frustration anymore. I probably this is like a bigger topic, but I'm not even sure if we've done an episode on the victim triangle but triangle. But I would consider myself like the rescuer position where somebody would talk and I want to be there or want to listen or want to help or offer advice, something like that.

Speaker 1: 47:44

And in my twenties I think I had more experiences of imbalance or frustration and over the years I've been able to sort of not do that or, if I'm doing, it be a lot more intentional. So I'll check in with myself and say somebody will be telling me their thing. They're usually not available for me to tell them my thing and, in all honesty, normally that person also doesn't have the capacity to give me the kind of sight that I would want if I were to share my thing. So it's one-sided. I'm aware I'm putting in more effort and usually it's someone who I really love or care for, or it's a stranger and they're just talking to me about something that I potentially have a lot of experience or juice in, and I check in with myself and I'm willing to share of my and it's sort of like in my zone of genius, so I'm willing. So, yeah, I have some experience there.

Speaker 2: 48:45

Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, my experience with this is it's not exactly this, but it's actually something that I'm grateful for, where one person is really good at pursuing the friendship. I've had a couple of friendships where people are just really good at pursuing the friendship and saying, hey, do you want to get together? Do you want to get together? I don't always think of that. I mean I do. I do more now, but when I think back to past relationships, there's a couple of times where women have been like hey, do you want to get together?

Speaker 2: 49:19

Like I have one really good friends when my kids were little and she always would want to have play dates with the kids and and we would get together. And we got together every Tuesday afternoon after work. She was a teacher also and every Tuesday, one week I would go to her house and one week she would go to my house. That was all her. That was all her desire, her ignition, her being willing to initiate it. And I met her there. I loved it. I loved receiving her invitations and we had this beautiful friendships and our kids were friends for many, many years. So that could fall into that a little bit. But also we matched funds, like I responded to her and I reacted to her and I met her there.

Speaker 1: 50:01

Yeah, I would say I also have been that friend for some of my friends. I tend to have some close friends, so if you are listening, uh, that they'll be going through some things and I'm like, hey, do you want to go to brunch, you want to go to lunch, you want to get together, you want to go for a walk? You want to, and they don't want to meet me in that location, um, because maybe they don't want to be seen or heard there, because it's very confronting and I've learned to not take that personally. It's not really about me, and so I'll continue to extend the invitation for whenever they're available to say, yes, love that.

Speaker 2: 50:43

Just giving an invitation for somebody to say yes, that's really good. Just giving an invitation for somebody to say yes, it's really good. We've actually touched all of these seven types of relationships that Lane Moore discusses in this book. You Will Find your People. But go read it In full disclosure.

Speaker 2: 50:59

Catherine and I have not read the book. It was just a friend of mine who shared that she was reading the book and really investigating the relationships in her life and really seeing who falls into what category, for the purpose of not having disappointment in your friendships, not expecting people to show up in a certain way that you really want when they're in a different category, and so I was really inspired by that. So I'm going to read these types of friendships. We'll put these in the show notes as well. We have surface level friendships, situational friendships, trauma bonded friendships, one-sided friendships, one-sided friendships, long distance friendships, chosen family and soul friendships, and all of these have so much to offer in their own way, and we may go in and out of these at different points in our life. They all serve something in us that we need and want at the time, and when we want something different, we would go after that. We might pursue that.

Speaker 1: 52:13

The biggest piece for me, why I really wanted us to talk about this. My intention was I thought it was so cool that somebody actually broke it down in this way, like how cool to make a book about that, to write a book about that, about it, how cool to look at the different categories of friendships and maybe there are others that other people have. Please write in, let us know. How do you categorize your own friendships or, if at all, beyond above all things, I just, in sisterhood, think that there's so much possible and I really hope that this episode kind of opens that door even wider for possibility. Thank you so much, everyone for tuning in to today's episode. We loved having you. We'd love hearing what you have to say. So continue to DM us and write reviews on Apple. Yeah, write reviews on Apple, we'd love it Until next time. Bye for now.

Speaker 1: 53:17

Thank you for joining us on the Desire is Medicine podcast Desire invites us to be honest, loving and deeply intimate with ourselves and others. You can find our handles in the show notes. We'd love to hear from you.