The Mom Panel: Building Bonds and the Power of Play in Parent-Child Relationships

Join us as we explore the dynamic world of parent-child play. Michelle sheds light on the unique aspects of play for special needs children, while Jill, our play expert, dives deep into the many ways parents can engage with their kids at any stage of life. 

We discuss how play can be tailored to fit various needs and situations, breaking down perceived barriers and highlighting its universal benefits. 

Tiesha and I reflect on the changing nature of play as children grow, from toddlers to teens, and how parents can foster meaningful connections through every developmental stage. Tune in for insights and inspiration on nurturing strong bonds through play! 

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Youtube episode here: https://youtu.be/WCcFoko1aIU?si=q1IiUNml_2dvYZrn

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Want to be a guest on our podcast? Contact us at: BTDubsWithJackie@gmail.com

Transcript

0:05

Hey! Hey, how are ya? How was your week? it's been busy, but it's been good. We're just gonna wait for the other gals to come in good, you know, it's been busy too. It's been a week man Yeah We're at the end. So we're good. I know. Did you ever reschedule your little girl's... No, I did not. She's going to do it. She's responsible enough. She'll let me know when it's time to get rescheduled. So I think she's going to wait until around Christmas time to kind of get it rescheduled. Okay, cool. That's good. He's doing great. He's changing so much. I don't know, you know, like he's just so cute. He's He's almost five months and he just acquired his voice, his tantrum voice. I call it the tantrum voice. But, you know, it's like, you know, not necessarily crying. It's more like demanding, like, I want this, mama. I'm bored, mama. you know, he's grabbing things, grabbing your nose face, which is super cute. That's Michelle. Let's see what she has to say. I'm in a couple of minutes late. OK, that's OK. All good. So. What else? No, he's super cute, just amazing. Yeah. Yes, so. style. how are you outside of mommy and wifey and you know, how are you? How's Jackie? you for asking. Thank you for asking. You weren't here for the episode we covered and will probably put in one of the episodes called Making Time for Yourself as a Mommy, whatever. I'm not sure what we're going to name that episode still, but not too long ago, I was talking about how I was. Not I'm new in the area here, right? So we just bought a home like a year ago. It's my first home in my 40s. Yay. I love it. love it. Who said there has to be an age put on when you do stuff? Literally, I know. So true. And so I'm new in the area, but that means I'm surrounded by Francophones, meaning French, French Canadians. And they all speak French and it's hard to get an English speaking person sometimes around here. So. So I told my my girlfriend in California and I was just she's like, hey, what are doing? How's because she and I had had babies. Funny enough, she and I had babies 20 years ago. And now we're having babies again together. Beautiful, right? Soap, so nice. So in the end, she's like, what are you up to? are you doing? You know, your self care. Because now we know, right? The second time around, we're like, OK, self care girl, yeah, self girl check. Yeah, OK. I know. And I'm like, you know. I don't have it yet. And she's like, no way. And she had her baby way after me, like literally a couple of months after. And she's like already hitting the gym and all this. And she's a force to be reckoned with. But anywho. And she's like, no way you need to, you need to figure that out. And I was, I was like, yeah. She's like, any friendships? I'm like, and that, I actually opened, I'm like, I just don't know anyone out here. You know? any like Facebook groups or anything like that for, I'm sorry, I keep adjusting this thing because I'm trying to make sure that. you're doing exactly what she did. She basically said. So why don't you hop on? There's an app that's called the peanut app. And. Yeah, and apparently and I go, well, what if it's only in Cali, right? If it's only in California, then. I'm not sure it'll be here. And she's like. you know, OK, but you know, you could try. And I said, yeah, I could. I could. And I did. I hopped on. I hopped on. And there are some mamas around this area. So the peanut app is it's like it's like a bumble or a tender. But for mamas. I need to hop on that app. This is literally right? Okay, I'm letting Jill in. Let's see, hi, how are ya? So I'm good, how are you? thanks. So we're gonna wait a little bit for Michelle. We are now recording. I don't know, do you see the little red dot right above you? Yeah, this thing's recording. How was your week, Jill? Sounds like you were off somewhere. we went to the Poconos to Great Wolf Lodge. Have you ever done that with your kids? OK, so they have like a bunch of, I didn't realize there's a bunch of them around, excuse me, around the United States. it's like a resort, very kid-centric. They have a huge indoor water park and all kinds of activities for the kids to do. We, over the summer, we were like, we haven't gone. on a trip as a family in a long time, but also flights and everything's expensive and just coordinating schedules and figuring it out. And we were looking at this and we were like, shortly it's like an hour and a half drive from here. It looks like my daughter would love it. It feels like it'd be really fun. And in the fall, it's in the mountains, so it's really beautiful out. We actually went for a hike one of the days, which was really fun. And I find being in nature just very recenter. Right. But yeah, so we booked it over the summer. It felt like it was a million years away. And then it like crept up and all of a sudden we were leaving and I was like, it's like I feel like all of fall into winter feels like a mad dash because it's like it's Halloween and then my daughter's birthday is right after and then it's Thanksgiving and that's the it's just like crazy. So I didn't really think that through when we booked it like it was going to be kind of crazy town in life. But all that to say it was really fun. If you don't want to, you never have to leave the hotel. Like they have that much going on for the kids to do. But we did go out in nature and explore and do stuff and yeah, it was great. explore and do stuff and yeah it was great. Hello. We have an echo from you Michelle. I know I know I'm working on it I promise I'm working on it. That's actually a great wood lodge. Let me mute you in the meantime okay babe? Okay. Just one second, just one second, Tayisha, just one second. Okay, there. So there's a great roof lodge, like maybe an hour, instant change for me as well in LaGrange, Georgia. And I've never gone, but my daughter, she's gone with school because she was in the beta club and they would do like a lot of competitions and stuff there. yeah, it is very kid-centric. It's kid-friendly. It's like, it's like it has something for everyone, but being that it's indoor, you can literally go year round and yeah. I get the draw and really there's stuff for kids of different ages. It really was great. It's very overstimulating. So you just like, for us and them, you just kind of have to know going in. And I was prepared for that to a certain extent going, but there was definitely like like, whoo-kay, there's a lot happening, there's a lot going on. I always have to remind myself like... And I feel like this is good with the holidays coming up too. It's like a good reminder that when you do these fun things that are out of your normal routine with your kids and then meltdowns happen or things don't go according to plan, right? And then you feel like, I shouldn't have even done this. Why do we even do whatever? Or I know some people will feel like, ugh, they're ungrateful or they're whatever. And I have to always remind myself in those moments, it can be so much fun. So much and it's like a lot to ask of our kids to be out of the regular routine even if what they're doing is having a good time like it's a lot and So there were definitely moments of that throughout the trip where I was just kind of like, she's having the best time ever, she's having the best time ever, and then we're falling apart. Like, okay, we're back. So there was definitely some of that, but it really was great and I highly recommend it if you're looking for something like that, like a family-centric thing to do. We really enjoyed it. Yes, yes! Okay, so we have... didn't, you didn't, you weren't even here. How do you know? I know I have a crystal ball that I work with every day for surgery for my day job. And every once in a while, I know these things. No, I just heard you guys talking. And we have one here in Anaheim and we've been, we actually went during COVID. Somehow they were still, well, maybe it was before COVID. I don't know. But it was really fun, but it is, Jill, like it's the overstimulation. There's just so much. But once they get older, Jill, like even Disneyland is going to be all that stimulation. It's going to be fine. And then one thing. ahead. my gosh, it's the age. you know, and I tried it even with Drake who, you know, he has his issues, like it took him longer, but it really takes the, it's an age appropriate thing. Like, yes, they're going to have their meltdowns up until they're like five or six. And then, and then you kind of start getting your life back a little bit here, a little bit there. And then you feel like a restaurant might be a Yeah I mean, we didn't go, we didn't go to restaurants for like five years. I'm not, and I'm not exaggerating. Yeah. Unless we had a babysitter, we didn't go. So, but Great Wolf Lodge is fun. I, yes, it's just, we went when they were little too. lots of meltdowns, lots of, but, and I haven't been a mommy for 20 years, so, of small children, so I don't even know what's out there. Is it fairly, like, was it around in 1999? no, no. so much more. Like the freaking jumpy places. Yeah, in 2005 it wasn't heard of either. Yes, they have, I know just recently here they had like a, we have a civic center. So they had like this big, bouncy house, like all type. And it was for kids of all age. And it was like, almost like a, they made like a theme park for like a couple of days. And I was just like, my god, I need a redo. I need for her to go back to being a kid so we can do some of these things. I know so much more now and I want to be so engaging. But then it's just like, she calls me like, hey mom, could you send me someone? Girl, like, we can't hang out. You know how much people want go to lunch? She's like, no, what's my friend? So it's just like. I need that little kid again. So I go back and look at old videos of us dancing and playing with nails and different stuff like that. Wow! Wow! And yours is 18, right Taisha? 18, 19? 19, 19. yeah. Well, I have a Get Air birthday coming in two weeks for a seven year old and it's like a trampoline park. So that's where she wanted to do her birthday. So I have... Did I tell you this story? Because this is really funny. Let me just tell you really quick and then we can jump to it. So I told Rio, I said, said, Rio, we're going to do your birthday. Where are we going to do it? It's just like, well, I want to do it. get air. And I said, OK, well, you can only invite 10 people to your birthday, like 10 friends, because it gets freaking expensive. Even with 10, you think 20 adults and then getting pizza for everybody and everything, it was going to come to like 400 bucks just with the with 100%. 100%. Yeah, easy. we made the the invitations and we wrote down everybody that she wanted to and then today like that day she comes home and she goes yeah so I talked to Jacob about coming to my birthday but I told him that he has to pay for it because it's too expensive but he can come to my birthday and pay for it and My face. I don't even want to go to her school because you can just picture these seven year olds going home to their moms and saying, I want to go to Rio's birthday, but they said that we have to pay. And I was like, Rio, do you understand what you just did? And so I, of course, For me, well, she figured it out, right? How to have more people at her birthday. So she's very resourceful. But then here goes mom printing out more invitations to give to the kids that she said, come and pay. my gosh, Michelle. Well, she didn't want her birthday funds cut into, so you gotta pay to come. You gotta pay to come and play with us. my gosh. today. How wonderful because it's exactly what we're talking about today, girls. The episode today is all about play. It's about bonding while playing. it's lovely that it all kind of transitioned our conversations coming in here just to talk about this wonderful topic. honestly, yeah, today is gonna be a fun episode, I hope. It's already we're having so much from Michelle your mini me is to die for I love her so much like Rio You know, it's it's funny because same right like Nikki is my little mini me and One day you guys will meet her and she's just you're gonna you're having a Rio moment with a Nikki moment and back in that day I was like Just mortified, just mortified. But I have I have so much to talk about with Nikki in her younger years and it's it'll be during the next episodes. But thank you for coming on. You guys are the best as per usual. Today's is mostly going to be about bonding while you play with your child. And I think the expert of this topic today is Jill. Jill, are you ready for today's topic? You were out all week, so I don't know. No, I think so. We'll know soon. We'll see what comes out of my mouth. No, I, yeah, I am. am. This is my play is what I'm most passionate about. And I think that it'll be really fun to explore and kind of talk about it. I think at the base, like the foundation of play as it pertains to, you know, bonding with our kids is it's really about connection. But I think it's important to say before we start getting into all the things that we will get into them that there are many ways that we can connect with our children. Play is one of those ways. It's a great way. I always like to think about, especially with our young kids, but I think this is true really through child development, even as our kids grow that. there's different ways that we can connect with our children. One of them is that we kind of get invited into their world. And I think this is like kind of what happens when we're playing with our kids and being creative in that way. They're kind of inviting us in on their terms. And then the other big way to connect is that we invite them into our world. And that's things like, you know, where maybe we're making something in the kitchen and they come and help us or, you know, things that we're doing or around the house and errands we have to run and that we're doing those things together. And then there's some that kind of fall in the middle where our worlds are kind of meeting. And I think all of those things work. And at the end of the day, it's all about love and bonding and connection. Sometimes I think we feel a lot of pressure on ourselves as parents that play is the only way that we can connect, especially if you have young kids. And there are a lot of different reasons why sometimes that doesn't work, whether it's because you're just not able to or available or frankly just maybe not. not in the mood in that moment. Or there are other developmental difficulties or learning difficulties that make that hard in the traditional way that we're used to thinking about it. I see Michelle nodding. She would know probably best to speak on that out of us. I think that the If we can kind of think of it like that, it makes it so we can actually enjoy those moments rather than feeling the pressure of if I'm not down for this right now or if I can't do this right now or for whatever reason that doesn't work, that I'm somehow a less than parent or I'm not being loving or I'm not being nurturing. I think we have to kind of consider the connection spectrum as a whole and that it's just about filling that connection cup and that love cup and play is one way that's really great to do that. hope that made sense in my still recovering brain. OK. does make total sense. No, it does. I love this topic and I was like immediately drawn to this topic with you when we met Jill because now becoming a mom of a little baby again 20 something years later, I see a new dad in my life that has become a dad like before me, like before my eyes and and he while he was such a grown-up and so serious before now with a new little baby, I'm seeing his inner child just come out slowly and it's one of the most rewarding things I had never understood when I you know social media back in the year 2000 wasn't a thing like today. So definitely my parenting experience is so much so different. But now we're seeing like quotes like, I love witnessing you become a father, things like this. And I understand it now. I'm like, wow, it's such a wonderful thing. So now he's doing things like Superman, right? With the baby. and he'll go all around the home going Superman, know, just picking him up, having so much fun. And I just see this this unique part about my husband coming out. And I wonder, you know, I was a child myself when I was having babies. So for me, it was really natural to play and bond with my my children when I was in my late teens. but to see it in your 40s, mid 40s is such a gift. So I don't know, do you guys have any experiences like how Michelle like speaking upon, you know, your experience with, well, no, even complex kids, right? Even complex kids. Sorry, because it did seem like that, because I said mid 40s, right? But like, like, No, also complex kids, I feel it's so different, right? It can be. So there's the two sides that... As you guys were talking, I was thinking, okay, so I'm going to go with the easier part of it first, which is having your kids when you're in your 40s, when you're older, when you don't have that energy that you did when you were in your 20s. So, you know, you have those. mean, it's it's a barrier. Like I have a full time job as a mom. I'm in my 40s. This is what I know. is I've been doing for 20 years. This has been my career. And then like, baby, I have to finish this and then I'll come and play with you. When you're in your 20s, like, everything is fun, you know, and all of that. So there is a difference when you have your children in your 20s and when you have your children in your 40s. Energy wise, you can be in the tip-top shape of your life when you're in your 40s, you're still not going to have that... And I don't want to say energy, it's different when you're your mind. Even your mind is still like when you're in 20s, you want to play. You want to do all these things when you're in your 40s. You're worried about how are you going to pay for the bills? How are you going to do, you know, get your house taken care of and how are you going to keep doing your 20 year job and how are you going to retire? And there's so many other things that you have to think about when it comes to this. So that is one part. And then the other part that Jill saw me nodding my head is, I mean, you have a child with a developmental delay. My son, all he did was scream because he couldn't speak. So he had no words until he was like almost four years old. And so everything was, and that's, that is the only thing that he could do was grunt. was scream. It was cry. And for probably two years of his life, his play, when he started crying, actually it was the crawling stage. The only play he wanted to do was throw his car and crawl and pick it up and then he would throw his car and then he would crawl and pick it up and I and we tried other things and then you know those I know I'm gonna get so much crap for this but I'm gonna say it anyway you know those jumpers that you put the kids into that you know they have all different kinds of and they can play with this and they can play with that. It was what he wanted. Like he did not want interaction as much as interaction with his toys or the noise. And so like even when I wanted to play with him, he wanted to go do something else. Like he was on the go because of his ADHD. He couldn't focus on one thing. And so that's why that little play area, like the little jumpers, it was like, my gosh, okay, he can be here for a few minutes that like, I don't have to be hearing him scream or throwing his car and going and getting into something that he shouldn't be getting into. it is, you have to adapt to your child. When you do have a, Kid with some kind of a delay or some kind of a you know no interaction or ADHD or whatever it is You have to adapt to what it is that they want to do and what they can do So I'm thinking to myself not to get like too far into play theory and things that like I find really interesting, but I don't know that everyone wants to, but. Every child wherever they are in the world whatever demographic whatever social, you know socioeconomic status There are certain play patterns that every single child goes through and one of them is trajectory Which is exactly what you described. It's like understanding your relationship of objects in space It's like when we see a lot of throwing happening sometimes of toys But also like when you have like I feel like we've all been there your kid just keeps throwing their cup from the high chair and you're like, my gosh, stop throwing the cup. But actually, like, It's called schema play or schema driven play. And essentially, our kids are learning these skills and learning about the world around them through trial and error and through experimentation. But it doesn't look like play in the traditional sense that we're used to. And they start, you start to see these patterns really in six to eight months. You can start to see them. And they're really prevalent in the toddler years and in the first really five or six years of life. But I mention this because I'm thinking to myself many parents in you know experiencing what you experienced or you know even parents like that we're not experiencing that exactly, but something along those lines. When we have these ideas of what play we think it's going to look like, based on what we see and what we're told, then that's not happening. It's very easy, I think, for us as parents to feel like we're failing in some way. What's wrong with us? I can't connect. This is supposed to be the most natural thing. It's not happening. And I think something like this, schema-driven play, actually not only incredibly common. It's every child. Every single child goes through this phase at one time or another, but we're not talking about that, right? We're seeing the child who's stacking their blocks, right? Or like very, you know, happily sitting and shaking an instrument and when your young toddler isn't doing that and you're seeing something that looks more destructive or they're not using it in the intended way that this toy was meant to be used when I purchased it, we then get into this kind of thought pattern of like something's not right and that there could be other things at play, but then there are also some of these things that are completely developmentally appropriate and we're not talking enough about them. Which honestly was part of why I wanted to start doing the work that I do because I felt like I find this stuff really interesting and cool and you know, there's that side of it. But there also is this other part where if we understand that, then we can kind of present opportunities to explore that in a more appropriate way that isn't as unsafe, right? So I remember for me like even with my daughter when she was in a trajectory driven phase and everything was getting thrown I started like being you know, okay. Well, we're not gonna throw that right like I that's a boundary But can I let you take things like I don't know rolled socks that something soft, something that's not whatever, and let you shove it off of the table repeatedly? Yeah, you know what? I can. It's not what I thought we were gonna be doing, right? But like, here we are. So I mentioned this just because if it's helpful to anybody to hear that, or things like dumping is another one, right? Such a common thing, or knocking things off the shelf, that every child kind of goes through and we're like, well, that's not how you're supposed to be doing this. And then we feel, I don't know, all this pressure. I always like to mention it that sometimes there are ways, sometimes not, but sometimes there are ways that we can kind of follow their lead and then figure out, okay, well, what would be an appropriate way to explore this thing that you're very driven to do? And Michelle, as you're talking about how you kind of figured out and followed his lead and said, hey, he actually, I'm craving this interaction. That's not what he needs in this moment, but he kind of needs the space to explore in his own way. I mean, I don't see that as something to like judge about. I see that as something to celebrate. Our job is to parent the kid that's in front of us, right? So like, let's Michelle for a minute there, right? Yes, Tiesha. I think, but truly, I think that like we... Everyone will experience this in different ways, I think, throughout parenting. And we have these sort of preconceived notions. And I think play is one of those spots. And instead, I think, if we can take that step back and instead parent the child in front of us, OK, well, that wasn't what I thought we were going to do. But what do you need? That's when the magic happens, you know? Yeah. I tell parents a lot. You go ahead. Okay, you're fine. Yeah, so I tell parents a lot. Basically, know, just piggybacking off what you just said here. Every parent is different. Every child is different. Every household is different. So what works for one child may not work for the same child, even if those two are in the same household. So one kid may like to throw socks, the other one may like, you know, want to roll on the floor. It doesn't mean that as a parent what I'm doing is incorrect or what I'm doing is not enough. It's just each child has their own way of thinking. They have their own desire of what it is that they want because they're their own individual person. And when they were young, they are coming into themselves. And as adults, we live life so we feel everything should be cookie cookie. But it's not kids are not a cookie. It's not a one size fits all. right. Totally. And what I was gonna say, what I was gonna say is this, when you have a child with developmental delays, you are going to see these so much later in life. Like, my son, was so... I remember he was probably full. I don't know. I can't remember exactly the age, but all the other kiddos his age were already doing the little puzzles and then he didn't get that until a year or two later. And so, you you look at you start comparing your child to other children and you can see, my gosh, he's like, he can't even do this. We had to teach Drake how to play. You go in his room, even now he's 10 years old, you go in his room and it is a disaster. It's pieces of toys. He doesn't know how to play with a toy. He plays with pieces of the toys. He breaks them. He takes them apart and then he doesn't know how to put them back together. And so, and this is all developmental, right? Like, so he's still in the stage of, don't know how to play with a whole entire toy. And so, and you look at it and you feel like, am I just not teaching him the right way? Am I? behind, do I not know how to do this? And so, of course, because moms, that's what we do. We blame ourselves for everything. But it's important to remember that when you do have a complex kid, it's not going to look like it does for other people. And it might take a lot longer for your child to get to where the other children are. anyway, just wanted to throw that out there. comment on that real quick, Michelle, as a nanny, as a former nanny. you know, I would even go as far as saying, you know, that some of these games, well, they have it on the box developmentally where they're at. You're, where are you gonna nail that, Jill? Yeah. Yeah. so many that I'm sorry to cut you off. It's like a I will see this all the time and It's like this is recommended for six plus, you know six plus months or You know three years plus and I'm like no three-year-old Can follow that many step? directions, there are, I don't wanna say no, most cannot. So then what happens, you purchase this toy for the holidays, right, or whatever, and then the child, you know, just, it's not developmentally appropriate for them, and then it feels like, well, why? It says 3 plus, and so much of the time that is true, those recommendations. Or sometimes you see it the reverse, where there are things that actually could be appropriate for a younger child and the age is older because of things like a lot of little pieces, choking hazards. There's so many things that go into those recommendations, and it's really more about, again, you parent the child in front of you, kind of looking at, what does this entail? Can my child follow multi-step directions? We're not there yet. Maybe this board game is not appropriate right or this craft is not appropriate Can my child manipulate little pieces or they don't have that fine motor control? Hmm, maybe this one's not appropriate and then sometimes a younger child can Can do this thing that's recommended for four plus at two years old because they do have that and then great But yes, Jackie you finish your thought but I just that takes me over the edge over the edge. It makes me crazy crazy. We're like, ahhhh! Yes, my gosh. We were just like, my God. Yeah, no, I was gonna add to that. And also I think that as parents, our focus goes into what matters to us, unfortunately, right? It really does matter to us that our child developmentally is up to date, quote unquote, or smart, or... you know, not as far behind. And what we fail to remember is it's a building, it's building that bond still. You want to still go into play understanding that sure, developmentally things may be a little behind or may not be exactly the way you were thinking they were gonna go while you're playing Legos with your baby, but Baby, I say, I call babies all kinds of babies. Even 10 year olds are babies for me. So just so you know, it's not an actual infant. I'm talking about your children at home. But really to remember that even if you are telling your child how to do things, if you wear a smile on your face, or even if you turn Legos into another game, right? You're still going to bond with your child. If it's not a negative experience and I think and I'm gonna I'm I'm I'm actually channeling my brain to go into one particular parent I had once upon a time and she while all of her children are absolutely genius level amazing super smart and I don't say that I actually they are they were tested this way and it was very important to this parent to be you know that their children were were you know tested for how smart they were because of the schools they were going to go into, yada yada, et cetera. For me, I loved how she was able to switch from as important as it was to play smartly with your child. It was also very important that if your child started to throw a tantrum and was like, I don't want to do it this way, mom, she would then switch it. and say, okay, how do you wanna do it? And then it wasn't a game of Legos anymore, it was a game of hiding the Lego or what color was the Lego? And so I loved that example because that mom till this day is still a friend of mine and her dynamic was plain, was never forceful, even if it was absolutely so important to her that her children you know, hit their milestones and entered the right schools for them. It was still such a wonderful thing to see how mommy and child played and it was still giggles and laughter at the end and not frustration. Right. Did you want to say anything like that, Joe? About that. play experiences, the best toys, if people are listening to this and thinking about things they're going to purchase, are always going to be open-ended in nature. Meaning there isn't only one way to utilize it. That there are multiple ways to play. And that however a child utilizes it is the quote right way, assuming of course it's not something unsafe or harmful. So I think that when we think about you know the things we're going to invest in in terms of materials that we want to have at home for kids to play with and also when we're thinking about like I don't know I have Like I have a membership that I run where I share simple play ideas. And a lot of times it's not just with toys. It's like random items you have around the house, right? Because that can work in play too. But the thing that they all have in common is this idea of, there's actually many ways your child might do this. There may be one that we kind of have in our mind, right? Or even two ways that we think it might go when we have a certain thing out. But the idea of it is like, hey, this is going to meet them where they are and then they can take in and run with it. Something that I always think about from my early teaching days is this story. I had just started teaching in a regio inspired school and not to go like too far down. that road, but Reggio is like a very child led educational philosophy. And we had out different things in the room. And one of the things we had on the carpet, there was like a whole car block situation. And then at one of the tables, there was like a painting situation and so on and so forth. And a little boy in my class, I taught toddlers, took one of the cars and brought it over to the paint and started like going to roll the car in the paint. And my initial reflexive reaction and I think this is true for many of us even me with my background whatever was to be like no no no that that goes over here that goes on the carpet no no no no we have brushes here And then I was like, girl, like, what are we doing here? Like, what is the point of all of this? Right? What is the point of everything that you do? Right? It's like that you want these kids to be creative. We want them to come up with their own ideas. I want to be supportive of their development and respectful of the people that they're meant to be. His idea is to do this. Is it hurting anyone? No. Is it like out of line with the values of this classroom? Or if you're doing this at home with your family values? No, it's not unsafe or dangerous. Okay, then like what are we doing here? And I let him do it and then slowly but surely a bunch of other children started taking different vehicles from that area, bringing it over to the table. What happened? 45 minutes of amazing exploration and discovery as they saw different tire tracks from different vehicles and like, you know, the big truck makes this the small car makes this and they are mixing colors together all these amazing things because it was an open-ended experience. I had an idea of what it was going to be that idea changed at the hands of the kids and now a whole new thing began and they were so much more interested in it and kids always will be when they get to decide, right? And I'm not telling them what they have to do or how they're supposed to do it. So then that ended up being 45 minutes, which in toddler land, like it might be a hundred years, right? Like for 45 minutes of focused attention, right? And we're like, let's be real. I was so like, whoa. And then after that, we got another 45 minutes because then my co-teacher and I brought out bowls of warm water. and sponges, and then they washed the vehicles, and now we're having a car wash, like, this, now a whole new, you know, area of the play happens. But all this to say, like, that was such a powerful moment that I come back to again and again and again, even now as a mom, when I hear that reflexive no, like, about to pop out of my mouth when it comes to her play especially. It's like, well, is it? Like, is it a no? And if it's not, like, is it me kind of stopping this because I have an idea of how she's supposed to do it? Or is there actually a reason that I'm shutting this down? So getting back to the point, open-ended in nature, more than one way to play is always going to be the best kind of play at any age for any child. And then the other thing that I was thinking about Jackie, as you were telling that story, was also having an idea of, you know, play styles, I think is really helpful and important. Because different every person. Adults to write because we also need to play and like have that kind of fun and exploration We all have our own approaches Right and we all have our own play styles And I think when your child is really into a different place style than you that can be really hard for a lot of parents I certainly see with parents I work with and I've experienced it myself when my daughter is like in her creator Moment and like wants to paint wants to do sensory exploration wants to tell stories and or do dramatic play and act things out like that is my jam I live there I was that kid I still am that person now like I'm all about that life when she starts getting into like more physical and active play which is also a major play style for her she wants to scoot down hills and jump off things and climb complex things I'm a nervous wreck I that for me like everything in my being is like shut it down shut it down shut it down it's not safe it's not safe I like I like can I can't read exactly like no no no no no no exactly and I like I can't enjoy it Yes, I feel like right if we're those people like you know you're that person and I am I'm the first one to admit. That's me Yes, and that's my that's my husband yes, that's my husband the. Exactly and I'm like, my and I'm sitting there and I'm watching her do it and like she can do it I mean we just had this when we were away and like she was doing it and I'm sitting there like I'm biting my nails off like I'm like I can't look I'm just like this the whole time just like this and Anyway, I say all this because I think if we can kind of We don't have to change who we are and or who they are, right? I think it's just about again You you parent the child in front of you you appreciate the person in front of you and you also know your own limitations I'm never gonna be I know it about myself. I try my best I really do I am never gonna be the parent that can just like really calmly allow that to happen It's just not me. So sometimes that means when she needs to do that that I'm like I tap out And that's like my husband's domain. And I think... You know, and I think that like sometimes we need to not feel bad about like, I don't know a lot of I have a client right now who hates dramatic play the second that and and that right now is like her son's love language. She hates it and it's like you can't necessarily like totally change who you are, right? So I think instead sometimes yeah, we can try to like stretch ourselves a little for the sake of our kids. But I also think it's OK to be like, you know what, that's not really mama's thing. Let's do another connecting activity. Or to set out something like, I just made this suggestion to her, like Play-Doh and silicone cupcake liners and candles and whatever, like a whole prompt. He felt so seen and loved by her. And then it was an independent play thing that was for him to do. That also is an option for us. That still is play. That still is us connecting. It doesn't mean that you necessarily have to be in it with them and in fact we kind of change it when we're in it so like we can also kind of re-explore our role and play right maybe my role is to be the facilitator and to kind of put things out and like let them do their thing and just kind of step back yeah michelle do it Yes, Michelle. That's me. So my daughter, about a year ago, she comes to me and she says, I want to have a tie dye party. And in my head, I'm like, my gosh, it has to be outside because if it's inside of my house, there's going to be stuff everywhere. And how am I going to do this? you know, because that's where my mind goes. Like my house is going to be a tie dye house once it's done. So she comes to me and I go, OK, let's do this. And we're going to do it outside. OK. It turns out that the day was super cold in Huntington Beach, California. And I said, great, great. So it was, I know, I know. Like exactly, like the one winter day that we had was the day that she wanted to do a tie-dye party outside. So I said, okay. We're going to have to figure this out. So we figured it out. I we got one of the tarps. I had my husband get a tarp and we put it in the living room and we brought in the tables that we had outside. And then it was like, OK, I can do this. But I facilitated it because honestly, I don't want to get dirty. I don't want to get paint on me. Like that is not my style. Like you want to go dance? I will dance with you. But don't ask me to paint, don't ask me to draw because I can't draw like my dryness from when I was three years old. so but those things are just but here you go. Like let me give you the sketch pads because she loves that here. Let me give you the the tie dye kit. Let's go to Target and get t-shirts for all of your friends. And so, you know, and here you go. You can do it. And this is happening, Jill, even she said You know, it's just turning eight now and if you have these things and you facilitate these things especially when they get older then They had the best time the best time we ran out of clothes We had so many t-shirts we had shorts. They we even had little Pencil little What do you call pencil boxes or bags? Pencil bags, sorry. And they would tie-dye those. And we ran out of anything. I think they were trying to find other things to tie-dye. And pretty soon it was gonna turn out to be my cushions on my couch. So I had to like draw a line at that time. But yes. It's over with. Yes. So what I wanted to say is, you know, being that my kid is now 19, I just like look back on those different, some of the same activities you ladies are talking about that you are currently engaging with your kids. And it's just like with an adult child, exactly where does the play come in? Besides, you know, going out, having conversations, laughing, maybe dancing or doing like a Zumba class or Pilates or something funny, going to a comedy show or concert. But having played with an adult child, it's like they're grown and the things that we think will be cool is like, okay, you're being childish, that's lame. And it's like, but you're still a kid. It's like, no, I'm an adult. Yes, but you're a kid. So right. So it's just like, you know, trying to find those things. So now it's, you know, game boards, Monopoly and karaoke and, you know, just dance and, you know, things of that nature that they enjoy way more than could be way more than you because now all of the trends that's on TikTok. Let's the head shoulder cup game. you know, especially being that the holiday season is approaching and families are coming together, you know, as adults. Like we feel on the play is like, you know, that childlike behavior displays itself. But it's normally during, you know, holiday season when it's like really big, but just on a every other day basis or everyday basis with an adult child. It is totally different than when they were a kid. So as a kid, they always want you. Like it got to a point where my baby was at the act because she wanted to dance and you know, she was acting and all this stuff. And it was like, we're going to play a game. We're going to play the quiet game. Let's who wins. So it was, was, mommy needed a break. I needed a break for just a moment to woo-sah. And, but now it's like, I wish, you know, I wish I could do more. You know, I wish I could go back in time. Yeah. Yeah. some of the things that I see now. Granted her childhood was great. Like I said, it was we sold one week then she got tired of the sewing machine and she wanted to be a painter. Like any and everything that a child can dream crochet. Like we did it all, acting, modeling and for her to just go through her checklist like, yep, no, don't like this, don't like that. I think I like this. I put this over here. So just being able to maneuver and keep that play thing going throughout life, even when they become teenagers and things of that nature, we still have to engage and involve ourselves in their world when it comes to play because play is still important. It's very therapeutic. It heals some of the pieces of them that we don't even know that need healing, including our own self. We have some stuff that needs to be healed. Such a wonderful point. Thank you for bringing that up. actually am the living, you know, I've experienced this myself with my two kids and being able to play with them even now and they're 25 and 20 there and then sorry, 21. And to me, they're still kids. They're still my little babies, right? Yes. gonna experience this, all of us will, but what I'm saying is you're already doing that now and it's such a wonderful thing that you brought up because I think that we don't, especially if we have littles, we don't realize how much our playing as they're little is going to reflect later in life when they're older. And I didn't mean to actually cut you, you know, I... know you're fine. But I grew so passionate because still to this day, I'm gonna share, and you know, we said that it was gonna be a great fun episode and we're already 50 minutes in. So I knew it, you know, I knew it, cause this is such a dynamic, like, it's relatable. All of us have this child inside and, If we're able to do that, I think the children pick up on who is going to be down for what like I've seen that, you know, if it's going to be daddy's going to be the one that goes and takes, you know, the bike out or is going to play in the mud while mommy is going to read the bedtime story or the stories in general and play Legos in the, you know, inside. So I think that it goes further than that when you when you're child now becomes an adult. They come to you in the same way they did as a child and it's crazy. But that is the way that it is. Yeah. And I know you just spoke on the mom and dad. We all know that there are some households where there are single parents and they have to wear all of the hats. They have to, especially if have boys and girls depending on their gender, they may have to be Superman or they may have to be Harley Quinn and their kid be the Joker to still get that play. They may have to play with Tonka Trucks as a mom and just engage in them regardless. you know, of not having because a lot of times I'm speaking from experience as who were, you know, a single parent, you know, having to be so many things for one person learning because it wasn't, okay, mama need a break. Hence that game, we're going to play the quiet game with her not knowing that it is the quiet game to be able to just recollect our thoughts and still be present. for our kids in that moment. And it is so beautiful because if they don't play as a kid, they grow up and they're this uptight, hard person who does not understand laughter and true joy and peace because everything was so structured. Even going back to, yes, going back to what, know, Jill was stating about how, you know, the kid was We set it up this way, but they end up doing something else. Sometimes even, you know, even though a lot of, you know, households know we need structure, but sometimes structure, you can still have structure when they flip it. When they flip the script, there still can be structure because they're safe. The structure is the safe, you know, the safety of them in the safe environment, but the place and the things that, you know, they look back on. And just, know, from a reflective standpoint, looking at old videos and old conversations, it's just like, wow, like, you know, as a teen parent, as a single parent, it's like, I did pretty good. And for those kids who's listening, who feel like I am this plaything y'all talking about, I can't relate. Yes, you can, because you're doing it and you don't even know it. You're a car karaoke that y'all be having when you're taking them to school. Yes. the, you know, recycle movie, know, tickling, like whatever you guys are doing that you feel is not enough, it is more than enough and you are more than enough. Give yourself grace and know that you are doing an amazing job, especially like Ms. Listen, sis, I took my hat to you and every other parent who has a complex child because as a social worker, I see it from a different lens. And you have that firsthand experience and I could only empathize and have so much compassion for the phases that you've had to go through in life and just feel like, what did I do to deserve this? How did my child end up in this situation? It went from that to, okay, let me adjust my crown, chin up, chest out, we got this. because my child is special just like every other child and we're gonna do it his way. Not my way, not they way, but here's her way and we're gonna kill the game. And I salute you since like you were doing an amazing job even in those moments where you feel defeated, give yourself grace and know that your child is extremely blessed to have such an amazing parent as you. Like you're doing a great job as every other parent who has. complex kids. All of our kids are complex, we're to be honest about it. So, shout out to all parents near and far. Sorry I on this whole attention, but you know. No, so true. I actually have high respect for all the parents in general, but definitely for the most challenging part of parenting if you have a child that requires more time, more patience. so pat yourselves on the back, mamas and dadas or papas that are doing the work, man. So, you know, I want, I... I love today's episode. We're going to do some more fun episodes along play because we have a wonderful panel and Jill is here to guide us along the way because that is her experience and expertise. But I want to leave everyone with a question in the end. And if we went around the circle to to tell a story, this podcast would become two hours. So we're just going to leave and maybe one of us can actually answer this. What is one game or activity that you could do today that you thought that from? OK, I'm going to start all over again. What is one game or activity from your childhood that you still love or you secretly wish you could play, but you haven't given yourself permission to? Maybe you need permission from us today. Maybe you can you can Grab that activity or game and play with your kids today with that in mind. Do you guys want, one of you though, just one, do you want to share your thoughts on one game or activity that you still love from your childhood and you secretly wish you could play maybe with your kids today? Anyone? It's not necessarily a play. But as you were talking, I remember my parents, we had a hammock and every day we would have lunch together as a family. And it was lunch, it was in dinner because we have lunch together. we would go, and then as soon as we were done, we would go on the hammock and we would just swing and swing and swing. Now, how we didn't throw up after eating, I have no idea. how that didn't happen, but we did that all the time and I have wanted to get that hammock back up in my house and I just haven't done it. So I am going to do that because my kids love that and I love it. So it's not necessarily like something to play with. just, it was just a thought that I had and so I'm gonna do it today. love that. Bye. Jill, Taisha any last words? So, not at all. This been great. My baby is in town for a couple of hours. So we're about to play. We're gonna do something when she's creeping in. think she's gonna take a nap. But mama's gonna get some play out of her today. Because yeah, this is definitely very, very exciting. I may even go get my niffy from school early to play with him. I don't know. You I love it, I love it. So with that, I guess I'll say one thing that did happen and I witnessed myself was last Christmas, my 25 and 21 year old experienced elf on a shelf for the very first time. Yeah, and it was. bet that was so fun. They came over for Christmas and the host of that game was indeed my husband and he made, I'm gonna keep the different ways he did it off the air, cause they're a little inappropriate. But let's just say they had a blast. They had a blast to find the elf doing a mischievous thing the very next day, right before Christmas or every day they were here. And it was a blast you guys. Just maybe I'll include some photos at the end of the podcast on YouTube. anyways, yes. So there are many ways you guys can play with your kids. If you need that permission, you have it from us today. Go pick up that book, go pick up that game, that activity, or just lay in a hammock, just like Michelle said, and just bond with your kids. I promise you will not regret it. Alright, that's all the time for today, you guys. We had so much fun. I hope you'll join us next time at BT Dev's podcast with the mom panel. See you next time. Bye. is it recording? Yeah, it is recording. It's not letting me pause. Okay. Of course. All right. Ladies, I hope that it says big REC, so it better record. my gosh, technicality is here anyways. that would have been a total shame. think it's right, but I think it is recording because it says 99 % uploading. Yeah. Yeah. saying uploading. my gosh. Okay, so I can't stop the recording, but if you guys don't mind sticking around or you can't, you can, okay, yeah, maybe you can leave, but keep your browsers on because it needs to upload. Yeah, okay. But we can just hit leave. All right. I think so. Bye, ladies. Happy Thanksgiving! Happy Thanksgiving! Okay, bye!