BTDubs Podcast

The Mom Panel: Before / After We Had Children Part 1

• Jackie de Godbout • Season 2 • Episode 7

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In this candid podcast episode, the hosts share personal anecdotes and experiences about their journeys into motherhood, reflecting on significant life changes, challenges, and the dynamics of their pre- and post-parenting lives. The conversation illustrates the struggles and adaptations involved in balancing personal identity, work, and family responsibilities. Topics like teen pregnancy, postpartum anxiety, societal acceptance, and cultural perspectives on parenthood are discussed in depth. The episode also touches on the joys and difficulties of blending families, the impact of generational cycles, and the shifting responsibilities and self-discovery that accompany raising children. Additionally, the hosts contemplate societal views on diversity and inclusivity, specifically addressing issues surrounding Pride Month and the importance of teaching acceptance. The dialogue underscores the complexities of parenting and underscores the shared yet unique aspects of these experiences.

Takeaways:

Navigating friendships can be challenging as life changes.
Postpartum experiences can include anxiety and grief.
Cultural perspectives on teen pregnancy vary widely.
Community support plays a crucial role in parenting.
Acceptance and diversity should be taught to children.
Personal growth often comes from overcoming challenges.
Motherhood can change one's identity and priorities.
It's important to reflect on pre-parenthood life.
The journey of parenting is unique for everyone.
Conversations about acceptance are vital for future generations.


Want to be a guest on our podcast? Contact us at: BTDubsWithJackie@gmail.com

Tiesha:

I wanted out. Literally, like literally wanted out, tried taking medicines, all kinds of stuff because I never wanted to disappoint my parents. Going through that whole turmoil by myself, I took my best friend she knew so I could still lean on her like we're young and neither one of us really understanding what's going on and what's next. Going through that and eventually having to tell my parents. And so it wasn't so much more of shame, it was more so now I gotta make sure I never disappoint them again. And I got the baby showers, I got the, can I rub your stomach?

Jackie:

So right now I'm in a place where my friends are so far away. And doing their own thing. They're obviously have babies and they're working and all the things, and they're far and, um, yeah. And I, I miss being able to see them, but I am in my comfort zone also, and I don't have mm-hmm. Them all around, but it's okay because I'm an introvert. It's, uh, the weirdest thing. So I really enjoy our podcast episodes. I really do, because there's something about, even if you're an introvert. You wanna connect with people? Hello? You're still human. Mm-hmm. Yep. So, no, totally. With that, with that being said, you guys, last time we were talking about, there was an episode, and I don't know how many episodes are gonna happen before they see this one, but we tossed a coin. We wanted to select. You know what we were gonna talk about? Jill won and I'm glad she won because we really had fun in this episode. Right?

Michelle:

We found the secrets of Jill,

Jill:

the true, the real Jill. So embarrassing guys. I loved every second of it, but listening back I was like, okay, it's out there like to, not just to your friends, like to like your professional, like everyone knows. It's okay. It's fine.

Jackie:

We're, it's

Jill:

good

Jackie:

you guys. I was editing the episode and was dying the entire time. Like I was, I, I was crying. There was tears coming down my face and my husband's like, what are you listening to? I'm listening to one of the episodes. Yeah,

Michelle:

I'm listening to myself talk

Jackie:

Crazy. So he is like, it looks like you're having fun and I so am, but I wanna go into one of the other topics that we were supposed to do. And so today we're gonna have to go into the. Well, we're gonna do the other one as well, but we'll go into before we had children. I think that's a good one, only because I reminisce. I love my baby, don't get me wrong, but I think the reality is that your life changes in such a dramatic way that postpartum kicks in. Sometimes it is because we are grieving when we were not with child. What do you guys think? Yeah.

Jill:

Oh yeah. I think so. I think so.

Michelle:

You know, I do have to say something about that ahead. I always have something to say, but you know, I think that when you're pregnant, you get so much attention from everybody. You're working, you're still, you know what I mean? So people wanna touch your belly and. You know, they want to somehow participate. Oh, we lost Aisha, participate in, you know, all of that. But the truth of the matter is, once you have the baby, all of that goes away because all the attention goes to the baby. And it's not you anymore. It it does. Yep. And it's okay, but it's a different feeling. I don't think that it's good or bad, but it shifts the attention.

Jackie:

Totally. I totally agree with you. Yeah. Jill, did you ever go through postpartum depression? Anxiety?

Jill:

Not depression, but I definitely had anxiety after having my daughter. I think it's weird. I'm pregnant now, but I my only time being pregnant. Was it a really bizarre time in the world? Yeah, right. Like I was pregnant. I found out I was pregnant, like peak Pandemic March, 2020, like New York shut down a few days later. My whole experience being pregnant was bizarre. It was like it. I was alone. No one saw me pregnant. In fact, one of the things I've been feeling this time around is it's going so fast. Because I've been so busy and I also have my other daughter who's life, so life is like happening. And then like I had my anatomy scan this week and I was like, oh, we're at that point. Like, but that means I'm like almost halfway. I feel like it's just whizzing by. It's crazy. So anyway, I say this because I feel like. When I had my daughter, in addition to all the anxiety you'd experience as a new parent, no matter what, and the hormones and everything going on that I was not fully prepared for, I think there was also this whole added element because there was this additional pressure of no one knew what was going on. We had no vaccines, but a lot of people were dying and there was not a lot of understanding about what this meant. When you were pregnant? Certainly, yeah. But what it meant when you had an infant. So it was just like there was all this additional anxiety I experienced because it was like, can we talk to anyone? Can we have any help? Can we go anywhere? Mm-hmm. Can we go outside? There was all this additional stuff that I think contributed to the anxiety that I already was having. Yeah, and it also meant like you really couldn't. Lean in to any village, even if you had one. Yeah. Like we had to make a lot of difficult decisions about. Seeing people, what capacity, what we were gonna need of people if we did see them, what that meant for them, what they were doing outside of seeing us, like these things. I never thought I'd have to think about that in a million years. I thought my friends, my sister and I, my parents and Matt's parents, like everyone would just be there. It just became so much more complicated, which contributed to a lot of that anxiety, you know? Yeah,

Jackie:

definitely. Environment, right? Like all the stuff that's happening before, and yes. That's a very good point, Jill. I actually have to say that, you know, you and I have the youngest children of the panel. I think that when it comes to postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety, you might have a predisposition to have more anxiety. In my case, more anxiety than, than normal because I respond a lot to hormones and things of that nature. With in, in internally, I've learned with. Seeing my mother, my grandparents, my cousins, even to understand that a lot of it is genetic, but also environment is so important. And so this episode I think will be a little more of like, what did we miss? What did we grieve? If there was anything to grieve, you know, that single person without children. I'm gonna start with Taisha 'cause I know hers is different than. Everyone else's. And even my own, I was a teen mom, but I was married and I kind of did things in a way that traditionally all you had to do was grow up a little bit more. It would've been seen as a more normal way of forming a family. But in Tisha's case, I'll let her take over the mic right now. Taisha like you are. So different and in, in so many ways. Tell us your

Tiesha:

story. Yes. For starters, I was pregnant at 13 and I had my baby at 14. Just thinking back on what that was like for me, it was. A lot of hiding, wearing bigger clothes, trying to figure out how I'm gonna tell my parents what's

Jackie:

gonna be said. Um, wait, so you had a lot of shame. I did. I don't wanna interrupt you too much, but I have questions like, so mm-hmm. There was shame involved in that too.

Tiesha:

Oh yeah, definitely. And it, it came from, because I was a, I was an honor student, I was a church girl. I didn't get in trouble. Like I said, our punishment was to go outside, like I was a nerd. So for this to have happened under the circumstances, it happened under, it was, it was a very big shock to all of us. I wanted out, literally like literally wanted out, tried taking medicines, all kinds of stuff because I never wanted to disappoint my parents. Going through that whole turmoil by myself, I told my best friend she knew so I could still lean on her like we're young and neither one of us really understanding what's going on and what's next. Going through that and eventually having to tell my parents, so it wasn't so much more of. Shame. It was more so now I gotta make sure I never disappoint them again. And I got the baby showers, I got the, can I rub your stomach? I lived about 45 minutes from the city, from restaurants. So my cousin, I called her and I said, Hey, can you bring me a milkshake? And she, when she got off work, she bought me a milkshake. So a 45 minute milk Tiesha.

Jill:

Yes,

Tiesha:

yes, girl. I'll tell her.

Jill:

I'm like, that sounds good. That sounds good right now.

Tiesha:

Right? So they were able to experience that part, but in addition to that, it was still the side eyes and the sidebar conversations. Dang, she's young. Never really having a boyfriend because nobody, mom wanted their son to be stepdad in middle school and high school. So going through that whole little, mm-hmm. Like, well, it is what it is, but my mom still made sure I participated. And you're also like

Jill:

in like a small town, right?

Tiesha:

Yeah, girl. Yes.

Jill:

So that's a whole other thing. Everyone is in like everyone's

Tiesha:

stuff, you

Jill:

know?

Tiesha:

Yeah, girl, it was so many rumors had I thought us. It was so many rumors because nobody knew. Nobody knew who my child father was, or they didn't know details. They didn't know nothing according to them. Nikki was just this fast little girl who ended up with a baby and don't know who her baby daddy is. And I allowed that narrative to play out. Like, if that's what y'all wanna believe, y'all go for it. I don't have to correct anything in my story when I publicly talked about it. I let them know. I heard y'all. I seen y'all. Even I had a aunt who made up lies because she didn't know what was going on. It was crazy. It was a lot of shame, guilt, disappointment. All of that pain kind of turned to purpose because I began to love myself. My parents still loved me, knowing that God still loved me. My church family embraced me and I didn't lose my best friend. Like she was my best friend then. And she's still my best friend to this day. So I think I gained more than I lost and it, it pretty much gives me, yeah, sounds like be the person that I am with a whole bunch of resilience. What

Michelle:

I was gonna say is that Taisha, you are. One of very few people that have gone through what you went through that actually is doing the things that you are doing today. You took responsibility, you took that into your hands. Your family, your village, helped you. And here you are. You just graduated. You gotta tell us about that too. Girl, you doctor,

Jill:

you're a doctor.

Michelle:

You know? Those are the things like, look at where you were and look at where you are now. And honestly, I feel like those hard times shape you. They make you who you are and you are who you are because of what you went through. And you took that and you changed it around from I'm 13 and I'm pregnant to, you know what, I'm gonna take responsibility and do something with my life. And a lot of the girls out there, they just don't have that opportunity.

Jill:

Yeah, so true. Very true. I see it a lot also though, and when I think about myself at that age. Like, I'm like, yeah, first of all, there was a lot of like unfortunate things happening. Like yeah, there's like very awkward bracelet, like all that, but that aside, but just like to paint a picture a little bit, but like, I can't, I was a kid, like a baby, a kid, right. I didn't even, I mean, I think I had first gotten my period around that time. I just can't, it, it's unbelievable to me to conceive of. Not only where you've been able to go, but how you even. Process, something like that, that is, is so mature, so grown up in that moment. Mm-hmm. Because when I think about the things that I was thinking about then, and I just, you know, I'm like, wow. It was like, who do I like better? Backstreet Boys are in sync. Like, I'm like fighting with my best friend about it, you know? Right. But it's amazing that you were able to do that at that point. Yes. Yeah.

Jackie:

Yeah. It was a shift. I wanted to also, being a Latina and very close to the African American culture in many ways, because we do share a lot, I've noticed, is also in our cultures. It seems to also, teen pregnancy is a little more common than other cultures. I don't know. I can't speak upon any other cultures. I'll be honest. If I dare say, you know, the white Caucasian community has the same, I don't know. But for Latinos, it was seen as completely normal. In fact, it was acceptable to get married at 15 as my mom was married at 17.

Michelle:

My grandma was married at 16. Are you freaking kidding me? Like. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know? Yeah. It, it is. Yeah. And so I was just writing my chapter for Tisha's book, and it's funny that you touch on this, Jill. I got married much later in life and I think that I already shared that in here, but my mom got to a point that she didn't think that I was gonna get married at all. So she gifts all the daughters a pearl necklace, and she's like. I don't think that you are gonna experience this. And she just handed me the pearl necklace when I was like in my thirties because she's like, I don't know if you're gonna get married. And I was like, okay. Alright. Well I guess I enjoyed the pearl necklace that I'm gonna have,

Jackie:

but I mean, but it's almost grieving, right? Like it was a, like a that for her.

Michelle:

For her. I was, you know, she had two older daughters and an older son and they all had kids. They got married early. They, you know, they did the whole thing. And I moved to the United States on my own. I'm getting to 30. My mom is wondering what the hell is going on. And, you know, the Mormon community, this doesn't happen. Like I didn't even have a place in the Mormon church because I was 30 and. I wasn't married, so you know, it's the opposite of that. Right? It's very different. The stories. I think for all four of us here, we all have a different story and I'm gonna bring up Tisha's book one more time. That's what I think her book is so awesome is that she's bringing all of that together. When we look at the panel and who we have here, this was Jackie's vision of the four of us and kind of pulling from different.

Jackie:

Yeah. You know, uh, speaking on that, I think the mom panel is more of these experiences because I do not believe in a cookie cutter way of living. A lot of the time, mothers, we have mom shame because we think there is a proper or correct way, either because. Your grandma said it. 'cause in my case, that was a case, right? Like your grandma said that this is the way to do things and that is that. Or you have people whispering in your ear, maybe they're teaching you or trying to tell you something that they were taught. So a lot of the time we carry all of the shame. And for me, bringing all these perspectives that you're mentioning about the book is such a wonderful way to introduce parenthood. To new moms and to maybe start something where it's less shame and more of what can I do when the problem surfaces and take care of it without all of that shame. So we kind of like went a little bit sideways on the topic and Miss Taisha left again. She's got technical difficulties today, but I think that. Um, talk, speaking on the different things. I will want to ask her when she comes back. I know the African American community is very much about. Teen pregnancies for whatever reason, we have the same stuff going on as the Latino community. Jill, I don't know. You grew up with your white friends, mixed.

Jill:

How did you grow up? One thing I will speak to is I think, I think there's like race and culture and this plays a role, but I also think there's like. It also depends on the demographic and where you are. Mm-hmm hmm. The town that I grew up with, I grew up in, which was not incredibly diverse. Like, I mean, that's just a fact. It just wasn't. But the suburb that I grew up in. Like, I think there was like a 99% rate of people going on to college, like to four year college. Um, just to like paint a picture like this was like, it wasn't until later in life I was a little bit naive that I realized, wow, people don't always do that. Like some people go right into. Working after high schools? I didn't, there weren't other options like that was just, that was everyone. Everyone I knew. No, I can't think of one person I knew that got pregnant young growing up. And I know, um, personally, I mean the, I had the fear of. Of God in me about really doing anything. Yeah. That's how it was for me. Anything. Right. So yeah, like I talked about it, like, oh my gosh. Yeah. So it was just like. I didn't, I didn't drink, I didn't experiment with anything until I got to college. Maybe the end of senior year was the first time I ever drank, but I mention all this because I had a lot of feelings in college about, you know, am I bad? That this feels natural to me. What does this say about me as a person? I had a very clear view up until that point of who I thought I was. And then it was kind of like, no, maybe you can be a great student. And a really like good and kind person and also like, like letting loose and drinking and like having, but like for me, those things didn't live on the same plane for a very long time, if that makes sense. I feel like Michelle, you had your old version of that too

Michelle:

and it was in Brazil of all

Jill:

places. Yeah. Everything I've ever associated with that is like, you go there and have a good time. Yeah. It's so funny. As you were saying before, Jackie, I was thinking to myself, another thing that I love about these conversations and everyone's sort of sharing, you know, where they come from, like who they were leading up to being parents is because we have this motherhood in common. Yeah. And then. So much of what informs who we become as adults, who we become as parents, are the experiences that we've had that led up to this point and sort of color who we turn into. I think that like a lot of what comes up for me when I work with clients and certainly what comes up for me in my own parenting is a lot of things that trigger us. Or that are difficult or have to do with experiences that we had in our own childhood or in our own past, right? Mm-hmm. So I think it's important to have these conversations about who we were before because it informs a lot of that. Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, no, where I grew up, I'm sure that doesn't mean it didn't happen, but that shows the degree to how much it was covered up, if it did. Right. I can't think of one person. Um, and I think that that was not. That was not a road that was presented to me as a potential option. Option. I mean, it sounds like really, like, it sounds ridiculous, but it just No, it, it just wasn't, yeah. Um, you know, it, it just wasn't, and I think that was something for me as I got older, as I got to college, I went to college in a city. I went to school in Washington, dc then I went to Nice, you know, I moved to New York City and I think that like, it really was the exposure to. All different types of people from all different walks of life. It was very eyeopening for me that like, and it was like, wow, there are a lot of ways to do this thing, right? There are a lot of ways to live and there isn't a right or a wrong, there's just different. It really opened my mind a lot and one of the things that we focus on a lot as parents with my daughter is that she see. Difference from us. Part of that comes in living in a diverse place, but also having her interact with people from all different backgrounds and talking about different experiences, reading books from a young age with characters who have different experiences. That was just something I didn't really feel I had a lot of until much later than I would've liked. Interesting.

Michelle:

Well, I, yeah, we're going through it with my kids. We live in Huntington Beach. There is some diversity, but it's not like how, like my school, my school was it, it was pretty diverse when I grew up. But here at her school we have the galas that we put together, dressing up, things like that in Huntington Beach. And so, but we really do try to bring. More into their world. Mm-hmm. We go to the theater and learn about whatever it is. We try to bring culture to their lives, including Drake, who might not even un really understand what we're doing here, but the love is the same. These are people. The other day, it was interesting because Drake said to me. Why does so and so have black skin? And it was very wow. It like, it's so naive but honest and raw, very honest. And so it was a moment for me to be like, doesn't matter, we're all the same. And that was something that I look back and I don't think that I had that. From my parents either, but you know, it was like, okay, this is, and then that was that. Then we changed the subject.

Jackie:

I love your response, Michelle. It was like, it doesn't matter. We are all the same. It's almost like we can highlight the differences and bring forth the differences. Or we can also say, actually yes, we're different in many ways, but who isn't? It

Michelle:

doesn't matter that those are the words that I came up with at the time, because of course it was out of nowhere. They always ask things when you're never prepared

Jill:

to give the answer in the moment. It always,

Michelle:

it comes at the weirdest times and, and you're like,

Jill:

oh, okay. I guess we're doing that now. Yes,

Michelle:

and here's something, and this is an interesting thing, we're talking about diversity, right? Last week we received an email from Drake's teacher. It was the very first time that I have ever like even questioned. But it was, it was good 'cause she was proactive about it. But she sent an email and she's like, throughout the year we celebrated every month we celebrated Black History Month, we celebrated Hispanics, we celebrated everything. And this month is about pride and. She's like, if you would rather not have your child in the room when we are talking about this, I will find something else for them to do during that time. And I was, first of all, like to me, I really do take life in a way that it doesn't matter. Maybe that's why I never felt discrimination being Brazilian. Because it never mattered to me. So

Jackie:

I see what you're saying.

Michelle:

That was one part of, mm-hmm. To me it's like we're equals, it's fine. You choose to be who you choose to be, but it was an interesting conversation that I had with my husband. I'm like, do you mind? It's like, no, I don't mind at all. And it was very, actually, I, I was taken aback by that because he comes from the. White Mormon family, he's a hunter. He's all these things. But I was very surprised and he is like, no, I don't care. I don't mind at all. Then we, you know, don't respond to the email and just let it be. So anyway, that's so

Jackie:

interesting to me. Tiesha, we lost you, but we're interested to talk about your community and how teen pregnancy is very common in Latino community. But I wanna ask you, is it common? Am I assuming wrong when I say we have that in common? Yes and

Tiesha:

no. Because it happens, but it is not something that's accepted or something that's, um, okay. You know, like, good job, girl. Like, oh, I knew that was gonna happen. Like, it's more like, was it good for you? It's like, what were you thinking? So it was more so like, you know, oh, she being fast, or you couldn't wait. And all this other extra stuff and it's just like Jesus. Oh, okay. Yeah. Ain't one of them. Pat on the back girl, you got yourself something. It's like now here you go and you gotta break

Jackie:

generational cycles. Interesting. Yeah, no, I wouldn't know. I thought it was a little more accepted, like the Latino call. No, it ain't accepted. It just happens in any situation, I think. But like Latinos, we get married asap. And that's just the way it is. Yes. You really don't have an option. That white boy, if he was a white boy, doesn't have an option. Right? He meets dad and he is like, all right, cool. Now you gotta put your little pants on. Wow. And you gotta marry my daughter and white boy's like, what is happening? But if he's a Latino, he knows what's up. He's like, okay, we're gonna get. Or any other culture outside of that Taisha. It's funny now I'll be here, baby. And then two years later

Michelle:

they're divorced.

Jackie:

Yeah, Michelle. And I think that a lot of it comes from respect, right? Respect of the father, the family. You were man enough to touch my daughter and do grown up things. So you will be man enough to be the man of the house now and take care of my daughter. You'll grow up. We're kind of strict like that, just overall. Anyway, I hope you don't have any more technical difficulties. I'm in the same spot

Tiesha:

every session and they wanna act a fool today. Like I ain't, I just don't get it. The episode's so good. It is just clowning. But no, I digress. I'm having a you problem, Jackie.

Michelle:

I, you know, it's all good, girl. I was gonna say, 'cause we were gonna talk about kids. Yeah, pre kids are

Jackie:

post kids. Yeah.

Michelle:

Yeah. And Isha like, you know, she was a kid herself, right? Mm-hmm. So pre kid, Isha was a kid. She probably continued to be a kid.

Jackie:

I did. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to talk about when you were, regardless of children, where you were as a woman, as a person. Mm-hmm. Without children, just you, your identity and how that changed when you became a parent. So Taisha for you, you grew up with your baby and alongside her, and then became a woman with her. So I guess, what were the things that you discovered and started to really. Be in the comfort zone after she probably left the nest. Was it before she left the nest that you started to date your husband then married, and discover your sexuality? What made you you, you know, so

Tiesha:

that's a really good question and the reason I said is a good question because I still have moments where I'm trying to figure out like, okay, am I being true to me? Basically, because we are constantly evolving as individuals. What I like today, I may not like tomorrow. One of the things that I've learned is I absolutely love reading. I would read a book in a day and a half. That was my thing. As time progressed, my reading turned more to educational things, and it was more so like I'm reading to learn, not reading for enjoyment. At this stage in my life now being an empty nester, I'm getting back to reading for enjoyment and not necessarily reading to learn something growing up alongside my child. It was trying to find the balance of being mama and still being a kid, and her actually seeing both of us evolving. It's actually been pretty cool. Like now we'll sit back and talk about it, and I tell you I did my absolute best to make sure. That you're not sitting on the therapist's couch healing from things I've put you through. And she was like, well, mama, I'm not sitting on the couch having to heal through things you've put me through. I know I wasn't the best, according to best or perfect, but I was definitely the best parent for her. Just utilizing what I learned as a child, watching my mom and my aunts, and implementing that. And being a social worker. So now I have the education and I also have the hands on and the things I learned from there. And I was able to create my own way with being a mom and the whole dating piece coming into that. My daughter was, I think she was 10 when my husband and I met. It was her entering into puberty. A man entering into our home with structure and rules. You would've thought a tornado was coming through there. But we were able to find our balance. And I talk about it a lot like with blending families is not something you could put in the microwave. It's not what you see on tv. Because that's what I thought we was gonna be this happy family. He has a son, I have a daughter. Everything is gonna be perfect. It was. Quite opposite for a long time, and it is just recently, within the last few years, we've gotten our foot where they have their own relationship and it is absolutely beautiful and the relationship I had with my bonus son was great when we had that opportunity, but we never, the opportunity wasn't often given. Circumstances that caused him not to be in our lives because of his own mom and all of that other extra jazz that went along with that. Of course. So, yeah, so navigating, just being a woman is like, I'm learning now what it's like to be in this soft girl era because my husband has always been the guy, he's always been the protector and I'm not having to do so much. But now it's just. Beginning to learn me all over again. The new me, I guess you could say Ms. Michelle

Jackie:

has to go soon actually, so just I do, we

Michelle:

have, we have a fun day of family day, so like it's Rio. She's singing in her springing. So we get to go to her school and watch them sing and then from there we're going to Great Drake's graduation. 'cause he just finished fifth grade, so he is going to sixth grade. Nice. Even though he is not switching schools and not really going to a middle school, they still do the transition from fifth to sixth. So we're gonna do that. It's always the morning. I love that. So you have to take the day off.

Jackie:

At least. You didn't work last night. Right.

Michelle:

Oh, that's true. I was talking to Jackie and I get a call in the afternoon. We have a case going at seven. Oh no, it's at eight 30 at night. So I'm leaving to go to the surgery and they go, oh, the case canceled. I was like, oh, thank the Lord. And so I turned, that would've been that've been brutal because you

Jackie:

woke up

Michelle:

so early. Oh my

Jackie:

gosh.

Jill:

Yeah,

Michelle:

right. I did. Yeah. So anyway, the life of a mom after I had children. And I came into being a mom with a corporate job. I was a salesperson. I, I already, like, I was in the top of the world because I had, you know, earned all these awards and sales When I came into it, that stayed. I had to grow up and be a mom. Be a mom of a special needs child, be a mom of an 8-year-old who's going on 16. I had to continue bringing on that power, that sales, that corporate thing, and trying to balance all of it. So I got into motherhood later in life. I was 38, you know, had I not built a life for me before then, I honestly, I don't know how you do it after. It's so hard. But I'm grateful for the things that I did. I'm grateful that I went to school. I graduated and I got a master's degree in the middle of nowhere, Indiana, and then I'm grateful that I found myself back to Utah and then found myself to Huntington Beach. This is where I've been for the past 18 years. This is where my family began. This is where my life started. Has it been. Smooth sailing. Oh hell no. Here I am. I woke up at five 30 so I could curl my hair, put makeup on because I knew that I had to curl. Curl. That looks so You look so good, right? Thank you ladies. Thank you. Thank you. You know, these are the things I had to do, but you learn to adjust to those things. Yeah. Can I do more with my kids? Yes. And I, and I am feeling that the older that I get, and with Rio turning eight, she looks at me and goes, you don't need to go. You don't need to go to work. Please don't do it. Do it for me. Why are you telling me? That this is more important than, and I'm like, oh my gosh. Break my freaking heart slashing into pieces, you know? But I am actually gonna go because I gotta go to my daughter's spring sing. Thank you ladies. Have a wonderful time, my

Jackie:

dear. Lots of pictures. You too.

Michelle:

I will. I will. Alright, bye. You know her

Jackie:

fun though. I. So much fun stuff. I, I, I wanna continue talking about this. Maybe we'll do another part going through the different dynamics. 'cause I am so curious how someone like Michelle is so different than someone like Jill, someone like me and Taisha obviously. Taisha. 'cause my goodness, in many ways, Taisha, I don't see your situation as something that is uncommon. What I see that is uncommon is how you made it your legacy as part of Yep. Your growth as part of something positive. And that's probably why I'm stuck on you a little bit today because I feel like. When it comes to the things that we go through as parents and the anxiety and the depression postpartum, there is actually a place where it can be so much worse. Mm-hmm. And I mean that with all respect, because I feel like it's, you know, I wasn't there, but I know that you were a child and that must have been so hard. It was a definite,

Tiesha:

definitely interesting journey postpartum. I ain't know nothing about postpartum until I became a social worker and the term was thrown around because I had that support. You still gotta go to school. You still gonna clean up, you still gonna do chores, you still gonna do everything you did prior to. The only difference is you have an addition because now you have to make sure this baby is taken care of. I couldn't support her financially, but I had to do everything else like my mom made sure that. I knew that that was my child and not my sister. I had to the wake up in the middle of the night and all of those things. And being taught how to maneuver as a mom, make sure the bag is packed properly. So now when I see moms that's like, could you go in the bag and get something? I'd be like, I go straight, grandma. It is like, this baby ain't got nothing but two diapers. What a other outfit. So it is like those things that I. I cherish so much because I still had a little balance. I was still on the dance team at school then National Honor Society, beta Club poetry club. My mom still allowed me to do those extracurricular activities because my baby was in daycare. Daycare got out at six. Mm-hmm. Extracurricular activities were over at six, so we would all just come home together, eat dinner, start over the next day. I love it. It was the same thing. And I see

Jackie:

it like a, just a wonderful thing. I, I don't see it at all with the shame that you had and maybe you, oh yeah. And maybe it was so strong and awful back then, but I see your story and of course you're invited to all kinds of podcasts. To talk about it. You're in a reality show too, Taisha. Can you tell us about that right now?

Tiesha:

Yeah, so today, today actually it premieres on Roku TV is the Real Entrepreneur. So I am honored to be the guest judge for, um. Jill, this is your kind of TV girl. People are getting eliminated and all of this great stuff. Yeah, it's right up my

Jill:

alley.

Tiesha:

I don't think it's too trashy. These people sound classy, classy entrepreneurs, but you know, every entrepreneur got little trashy, a little bit of trash. So when I see it today. I'm gonna shoot you a text, Jill and be like, yeah, nah, it ain't trashy.

Jill:

Like, is anyone

Tiesha:

fi,

Jill:

is anyone fighting? I'll let you know, girl, I

Tiesha:

promise you, I'll let you know. But, um, my, my story has taken me on a journey of healing, not only myself, but other people and the shame and the guilt. It, it was in the beginning, but once I received that, mama got you. I was good. It was like, I don't care what nobody will say. My mama got me. So I was okay. Mama said, I'm good, I'm good. That's all that mattered to me at that point until I got older and look back on some things and be like, dog. Like that was, dang mama. I'm sorry that ain't daddy. I'm sorry. Tanaya. I'm sorry baby. I, you know, I bought you in the world where I'm trying to figure it out. But other than that, it has been golden. My girl is my girl. That's my right hand. That's my heart. That's my bestie. I'm pretty honored to even have been chosen to be her mother.

Jill:

I got you. I got everything you have to say. I feel like we need a part two on this subject. We do. Because I'm very curious, Jackie, about your story before. Mm-hmm. And I also, when Michelle was saying that I started to think about myself. I know for me a lot of those shifts came in the form of my work. What I was doing before didn't serve me in the same way once I became a mom. And that really shifted my perspective. I feel like there's a lot more to unpack. Yeah, we do. Right? Definitely.

Jackie:

Yeah. I feel like we need a part two. I think. Jill, you are touching on a subject I wanted to talk about, which is. The surprises right before and after, and you're like, oh, I expected this. But actually it's like this. That is very unique to every individual, but I think there's a lot of common ground. We have to make it a part two. Unfortunately, that is all the time we have for today,

Jill:

Jackie and Taisha. There's just one thing. Yes. Whether it's in the episode or not, I feel like I have to get it out in my system. Tell tell us. It doesn't have to do with the subject and it's nothing about anything Michelle did. But when she was telling that story about the school, sending that email about Pride Month, it's like eating at me. So I just gotta get out. 'cause it's about being honest. I'm like the fact that a school feels they have to send an email about that month when we can celebrate everything else. We just acknowledge we celebr. But for this one, like is everyone okay? Right. Is getting me right. You know what I mean? I feel amazing to celebrate a and teach children about all different walks of life. I mean, it's such an important thing that should be happening, but I feel like the fact that pride month then is put in a different category of like, we wanna do that, but like, is that okay? It didn't 'cause of the way me either. I just had, I'm sorry. I just like had to put it out. It's nothing about her or the school. I think it's just the fact that that's like a conversation. Mm-hmm. That I think many teachers, schools are like, oh, we should like make sure first, if they're not comfortable, they shouldn't be there. No. This should be something that we're acknowledging. Yeah. The way we're gonna acknowledge everything else,

Jackie:

it is a testament to where we are as a nation Still. A hundred percent. Unfortunately, we're still not very accepting of everyone. That can be, I know it race, it can be sexual preference just as an individual. I think that's where we are as a nation, and things have to change. I don't care how, but they should change a lot and it can't be disguised as. Loving anymore because unfortunately that's what we say. We're like, you know, we wanna disguise it as something we're trying to do for God or whatever. And I'm a, again, I'm a, I'm a Bible thumper ex Bible thumper, current Bible thumper. Yep. And I cannot stress enough that the Christ that I follow followed in love, the very people that were in sin. The very people that were in prisons, the very people that murdered, they cheated. They lied. Mm-hmm. They stole, he died with two criminals beside him that can go on and on about this. And he let 'em in Paradise. Yes. Which is the most beautiful thing. Is that all he did? You know, I know

Jill:

you're Jewish, Jill. No. No, but that regardless, I feel like it speaks to the same thing, which ultimately is love and acceptance, right? So whatever your walk, that's what I feel like it's about. If this is out there, there will be people that feel very offended by Absolutely. That stance. And you're right. That's just the nature of how polarized we are right now. Whether it's about your race, whether it's about your religion, whether it's about your sexual orientation, how you identify the fact that is so offensive, right? Why does it even matter for other people to just exist? Yeah. It gets me, and I feel like this tiptoeing around it. Of like, can we do it for this thing? Only if you're okay with it is sort of contributing to it for the next generation as opposed to, Hey, there are so many amazing, beautiful people that make up this world. We're gonna learn about all of them. Someone will identify with something as we learn all of these stories, right? That's the beauty of doing this for children, right? Helping them to not only understand the other people in their lives, but understand themselves. I just felt like I had to say it to you guys.

Tiesha:

My whole thing is the age of the kids and things of that nature. Why are we discussing sexuality with kids anyways? Just allow them to be because they're kids. If you feel it's gonna be offensive, then maybe you should reconsider even doing it anyways. Why is it an issue? Like who you sleep with, what you identify as, girl, boy, like whatever. That's your business. Who cares? Why are we making an issue? I

Jackie:

think there is also this belief, right? I'm gonna speak on that belief because that's really what was going on too. A lot of states are very different, and there is this recurring belief that because one state does something a certain way, the other state's gonna do it the same way. We have to remember that. Every state has their own way that they deal with these topics. Right. You're not gonna teach something in Alabama that you would teach in California because there are different states and there's different walks of more prominently in California that there aren't so much in Alabama. Gotcha. So, no, you're not going to be familiar with. I'm no expert, but I think there is an error or a fallacy, however you wanna call it, a narrative that all the states are teaching children about changing their gender and forcing kids to be different, and I just can't stand by that because I don't believe that's the case. I also think that it's demonizing a lot of. What actually is going on in schools, which is acceptance. A lot of it is teaching acceptance, and then we wanna demonize and say, no, we're pushing our children to do this and that and the other. We need to be careful with those beliefs because are we in Texas to know what Texas is teaching? Right? Texans can say that, but California can't speak for Texas. Missouri can't speak for California. It's this. Blanket of beliefs that we have to kind of demonize a certain demographic. And it's wrong if it is something that you're not okay with. As a parent. You have your child, you can teach your child the way you wanna teach your child. But yes, Jill. I mean, going back to that, that is such a topic and we do need to do better. I don't know if it will happen. Right? Hoping that in future generations like Generation Z is really coming out with. Making a stance, doing the right thing for their generation, and I hope they continue. I am very much rooting Gen Z and Alpha to change the narrative, to change the way things are done. So we lost Taisha again and that

Jill:

is going to wrap up. Yeah, I know where you. Sit with a lot of that stuff. I think that's the point is the acceptance, that it's more about, hey, there are a lot of different people with a lot of different experiences who walk through life differently and let's learn about what that is in order to better understand who we are and understand each other. That's what I ultimately feel like this is about for kids. Yeah, so that being put in a different box than doing that anywhere else. Is the part that's getting me, trust me, I know it's rough times out

Jackie:

there. It's, I appreciate you bringing it up, Jill, and with that I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day.