The Most Dwanderful Real Estate Podcast Ever!

Next Level Income with Matt Fore

• Dwan Bent-Twyford • Season 5 • Episode 369

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Embark on a picturesque journey through the heart of Tennessee with me, Dwan Bent-Twyford, and my esteemed guest, Matt Fore of Next Level Income, as we intertwine the allure of the Volunteer State with the intricate world of real estate investing. This episode is a treasure trove of insider knowledge, from unearthing the potential of self-directed retirement funds in real estate syndication to sharing the vibrant life lessons learned from investing in a small town during a global crisis. As you revel in our shared experiences, you'll find Matt's expertise in syndication and my insights on the importance of educational transparency both enlightening and actionable.

Get ready to be moved by the power of aspirations and the importance of community, both in real estate and beyond. Beyond the financial discussions, we indulge in heartwarming tales, like the story of my first concert and ambitious endeavors, such as running seven marathons across seven continents. This narrative is about more than investment strategies; it's about the passion that drives us and the dreams that propel us forward. We celebrate the entrepreneurial spirit that can transform a locality, as my husband and I did in Clinton, Iowa, taking advantage of an Opportunity Zone during uncertain times and igniting a business boom that reshaped a community.

Concluding with a reflective note, we dive into the art of curiosity and the unexpected insights that arise from asking for just one word from our peers. As we ponder the value of time and extend our gratitude to you, our listeners, for sharing yours with us, we invite you to engage with us further and stay tuned for revelations and truths in episodes to come. This conversation isn't just about real estate—it's a mosaic of life experiences, a testament to the entrepreneurial journey, and an inspiration for anyone looking to leave their mark on the world, one investment or marathon at a time.

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Dwan Bent-Twyford:

Hey everybody, welcome to The Most Dwanderful Real Estate Podcast Ever. I'm your host, Dwan Bent-Twyford. I'm America's most sought after real estate investor and our motto at Dwanderful is people before profits. So if that resonates with you and you like that idea, you're at the right place. I'm your girl, Matt is your guy and we're going to have another fun episode and just talk and chat about real estate and all the things. So you can find me at Dwanderful D-W-A-N-D-E-R-F-U-L dot com. Opt in over there and I've got some free e-books and some just a lot of free stuff for you. So if you're really new, I took my name Dwan and wonderful, and I made a new word, so we're Dwan-der-ful. So that's how we roll, M matt, and this is Matt Fore. I'm super excited to have you on today.

Matt Fore:

Absolutely Thanks for having me.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

And you're in Nashville, so we were just chatting before we started. I love Tennessee. The only thing I don't like about Tennessee is there's so many bugs.

Matt Fore:

So you know we're having the cicadas come out this year. Oh, I know, and we're going to be hit with that, like we're in that weird pocket of it's two cicadas coming out at once. Fortunately, my neighborhood just got built in the last two years so we're told we're not going to have any. But I was out riding my bike the other day and I swear a couple hit me like right in the face.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

So they are coming. So I was telling that before we started recording my family's from crossville, tennessee, and my grandparents lived like, like, in like maybe, like almost like a holler, like really in the country, like dirt roads, and I can't tell you how many times every night my grandma would check our hair and we'd do a tick check and I can't tell you how many ticks I've had. They would light the match. I'm like you know, I had so many ticks. I'm just like, oh, my god, it's amazing I don't have lymes disease. And then my sister lived in Pleasant View and on land with so many trees. It's like, oh, my god, there's so many bugs and spiders and ticks. It's like, oh, but I still love Tennessee. So, yeah, I'm a, I'm a, I'm all about. Even when my kids like, hey, we're going to do tick checks and I mean I did my whole life doing that stuff.

Matt Fore:

It's funny. You said a holler c Cause, like we were talking about Oak Ridge. Oak Ridge is literally like two miles wide, 14 miles long. I mean it is the definition of just a pocket inside of the mountains, holler.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

It really is, and Oak Ridge is such a good town and Nashville and like Knoxville, like all of that and people I think don't understand like Tennessee has so many great things. My sister and I used to go whitewater rafting at the Ocoee River. It's like there's so many great things that people don't know. They just say, oh, it's just a bunch of country people. It's like there's like there's stuff for days.

Matt Fore:

Yeah, the Ocoee is. The Ocoee is where they had the Olympics in 96 for the kayaking. Yeah, yeah.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

And I'm telling you we did. We went on a day where the water wasn't really high enough, so it was like more dangerous than usual. My God, I thought I was going to die, for I was just like fearing for my life, but we did it anyway. It's like, ah, and I got all these great pictures and it was scary, but it was so much fun.

Matt Fore:

Good for the story.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

Yeah, it's good for the story. It's like, ah cause, you know, I guess the lower the water is, the more dangerous it is because of all the rocks and things. We whitewater rafts in colorado, but the water level is always really high. On the weekend that we went to the elkoi, I'm telling you, man, we were rafts were flipping over and we're just like, don't let us die, but it was so much fun. I just I love everything about it. So I'm so happy to meet you and talk to you and so what I like people doing. I'm just kind to throw you straight into the wolves here. Matt is.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

I like people to tell us who you are and just give us like a one or two sentence of what you do and all the ways to find you, and then I have some fun questions. Got my green skin on today so you can't see my questions, but I have them and we're just going to talk and we're going to have a good time today.

Matt Fore:

Perfect. So Matt Ford, based out of Nashville, Tennessee, partner here at Next Level Income. We are a private equity real estate syndication company. We help individual investors invest into large commercial real estate to take advantages of cashflow, tax benefits and appreciation without having to deal with toilets and tenants. That's me.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

I love it. See, that's so great. Just like right to the point. And how do people find you?

Matt Fore:

You can check me out. I have a podcast called Ice Cream with Investors. I'm just a skinny man stuck in a fat man's stuck in a skinny man's body. But also you can find me on Twitter. I'm really trying to grow my presence over there at Matt411 this year. That is my big goal.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

Okay, I love it. So how do you feel about Twitter being X now?

Matt Fore:

It's fine. Look, I never got onto Twitter for a long time because I've heard of the toxicity of it and make no mistake about it. If you follow those rabbit holes down on Twitter, it is a very, very weird place. But what I I found in real estate Twitter and SMB Twitter and finance Twitter is there's a lot of people doing really interesting things who just want to connect with other interesting people going through the same thing. So I found a lot of great connections that have helped me through some challenges that I'm facing right now in some of our portfolio, as well as some interesting people to go follow.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

I always loved Twitter. I got banned off Twitter.

Matt Fore:

Oh gosh.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

I did. I used to follow that QAnon and I would like follow all the stuff. Oh, I'm in all the conspiracy stuff and they made some announcement that they were going to like ban followers and stuff and I got banned. I was like seriously.

Matt Fore:

Wow.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

But now that Elon made it X, I was able to go back in and make a new page, and so now I have it again. So, yeah, I was, I don't know, I. I happened. I go down the conspiracy rabbit holes. First of all, most of it's probably true, but it's just fun. And just what I think about things, and so I got kicked off.

Matt Fore:

I heard somebody say the other day it's TV for intellectuals, people who like to read and understand things and dig two or three levels deep instead of watching TV. It's a great place for that.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

So I don't know they they banned a bunch of people that follow that Q guy Q and on or whatever. And I was like, okay, well, that well that sucks because I couldn't get back on for a minute and I'm like I'm back on now. So now I'm just behaving and using it for what it should be and putting a post and following a lot of fun people like you, and just I'm using it properly and I just like I stay off of all the conspiracy stuff because it got me banned.

Matt Fore:

It's literally called retwit Real Estate Twitter. It's a fantastic little sub-threaded and community out there.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

Retwit Okay, I'm going to. I'm going to. Okay, so next level income. So what is it that you guys do? So you said you help people, yeah.

Matt Fore:

We're a real estate syndication company. So basically when I first got involved in real estate I thought you could buy and hold or you could do fix and flips. I had no idea that there was this whole community out there and whole trillion dollar industry in the United States. I thought the big banks and life insurance companies own the apartment complexes downtown and what I found is that actually individual investors own a lot of that stuff. So groups like ourselves will go buy a hundred million dollar apartment complex, pull together investor capital, do the deal, fund the deal, finance the deal, manage the deal. And our investors are just limited. So they get all the benefits of cashflow appreciation and tax benefits of being in real estate without having to do all the heavy lifting of being in real estate.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

And yeah, I love that about syndications because when I mean I've been investing for almost 35 years and I was probably 25 years in before I learned about syndication, so I was the person buying the rentals and dealing with the toilets and all the stuff and I was like you mean you can just like put money in and they do all the work. I was, I don't know about that.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

And I think I feel like a lot of people don't don't know about syndications or they've been led to believe you have to have like so much money to get into them or you have to have all this crediting, all this stuff and and I didn't know either. So when I first found out I was like this is like the best thing I've ever heard of. I can just put some money in there and I don't have to do anything Much easier.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

So much easier, so much easier. So, with your syndication, do people have to be? Is there like a minimum? Is there a maximum Like what do people have to have to invest?

Matt Fore:

Yeah, it depends on the deal, right? So when we're talking different regulations that we can fall under, there's the 506B and the 506C. 506b means that it's a buddy, it's somebody I know, I have a developed relationship with them and because of that they don't have to meet what's known as the accreditation status. An accreditation status is just a governing rule and code given to us by the SEC that says if you make a certain amount or if you have a net worth of a certain amount, you must be smarter so you can invest in these other things. If you don't, then you can only invest in these things. So that would be known as a 506C. So when you asked about minimums and things like that, typically it starts out at 50 and it can scale up to 250, depending on the deal and the operator and things like that and depending on how big or small the deal is.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

Yeah, and see, I really like that because, like people like, like my dad, he's 86 and he's not going to go buy rentals and fix toilets and do stuff, but they have so much money from the 401k and all their stuff and and I think most people like, when I first heard about syndications, I heard the part where you have to have all this to qualify and it's like well, who has all that?

Matt Fore:

Right.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

Then you know people do so I like the fact that you can be a smaller investor and you can just put money in and let it ride for a while and keep putting it in and not have to have all the stuff. And then for you guys, you can buy like a hundred million dollar complex that some, a regular person, could never even imagine anywhere. They could be a part of something so big. But they can, because you can just pull all the money. And here's what we're buying.

Matt Fore:

That's right Now. I like that you mentioned the 401k and the IRAs. Most people don't know that you can actually self-direct your retirement accounts, whether it's a Roth IRA or 401k, a regular IRA and direct those into real estate opportunities and get the cashflow and the appreciation from those. So I'm glad that you brought that up, because that's a little known secret that a lot of people don't know about.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

They don't know. I think it was funny because I invested for, honestly, like 25 years, like a really long time, before I started hearing about syndications. And then I first started hearing you have to have this this, this, this this, which at that time I had. But then I was like, ok, wait a minute. So I love to interview people that do syndications and talk about that, because someone that, like my family, that's worked until they're 60 for the man and they've got all this money but they don't know what to do with it, they can make more because you know you're a lot of your things go down with stock marketing. It's more volatile, but I feel like putting money into syndications is a good place to put money and there are so many people that are baby boomers, that are sitting on millions of dollars and they have no idea what to do with any of it.

Matt Fore:

Yep, yep and two. My view on retirement planning and retirement accounts is a little bit different, in the sense of I was having this conversation with a friend earlier today of why do we use a retirement account? Well, we want to stuff money in a hiding place and let it grow and then basically pull from it later, siphon it off later to meet our expense needs, to meet our cashflow needs. So if you know you have to do that at some point in the future, why wouldn't you just start doing that today to buy these cashflow streams? And what I found in my journey is that once I kind of became financially free and my basic living expenses were paid for, I just operated at a more intentional level and a higher level with my friends, my family, the causes I care about and things like that as well.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

Yeah, I know, and it's just people don't know. Like my family, you know, like I said told you earlier it's from Crossville, tennessee, and then my dad and mom and everybody like moved to Dayton Ohio and they worked in all the factories and no one teaches people like about financial literacy and what can you do. And you know you just work for the man and you retire and you have like this amount of money. But you could have that amount of money If you knew that things were available. So how do you let people know that, hey, we have some opportunities over here, like for someone that might be new, like new or has money, and they're like I don't know what to do with this money. I don't want to do all that. Like, how do people find out about you? Or about syndication? How do people find out about that?

Matt Fore:

Yeah, so conspiracy theory. It's interesting that the big banks don't want you to know about this, because they get paid based off of the assets they have under management. They get paid on a fee on basically how much money you give them to manage, whether it goes up or down. So because of that we're not allowed to really advertise that we've got opportunities or things like that. We have to get people on a call with us, establish a relationship and then ultimately we send it out in an email after we have that relationship. So if you're interested in learning about our investment opportunities, you can just email me, matt at nextlevelincomecom or go to icecreamwithinvestorscom and there's a link to my calendar on there and once we have an established connection and relationship then I'm allowed to email you, but before that not allowed to email you.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

Basically, I think that's why I never knew, because I was always rehabbing and buying rentals and doing a little commercial. And now all of a sudden I'm like, oh, syndication, what's that? And since I had my podcast I've interviewed a lot of people that offer syndications. I was like why do people not know that this stuff exists? Like why do they not know? I was in the business and I didn't know it existed.

Matt Fore:

Yeah, there was a law that changed in 2011 or 12. I can't remember that basically allowed the Regulation D for some syndicators to go out there and advertise if they met the 506C regulation. We still don't advertise because we don't want the SEC to ever say that we took somebody's money that didn't know what they were investing in and things like that. But ultimately, that's probably why you never heard of them back then is because until that rule came into place, they weren't allowed to go advertise and promote what they did.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

I know, and I am a firm believer, that syndications are just a really good. It's a good idea for anyone that, like you said, doesn't want to deal with the light bulbs in the toilets, but it's a good idea for people that have a lot of money that don't want to just keep putting in the stock market, cause that's just like and crypto is like all over the map, like everything is all over the map, and some occasions, at the end of the day, you get your money back and you have, you know, regular paychecks and stuff like that. So what do you guys do for, like interest rates on people?

Matt Fore:

Interest rates in terms of what's going on in the environment today.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

Yeah, Someone says listen, I want to give you guys a hundred grand.

Matt Fore:

Oh gotcha, I mean it depends on deals.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

How much are they going to make? Is it guaranteed, like, how do you guys work your?

Matt Fore:

Yeah, first and foremost, no, it's not guaranteed, so I'll get that one out of the happen Side note on that, I think a lot of people in this industry downplay the risk. What I prefer to do is tell you hey, here are the risks in this deal that we see, here's how we're overcoming those risks and minimizing them. But there are also the biggest risks out there are the ones that we don't know about. So, to answer your question, it depends on the deal, depends on the structure, but typically we underwrite everything for a five-year hold just because that's usually when the tax benefits start rolling off of our syndications, because we do bonus depreciation, cost segregation Happy to kind of talk a little bit about that, but typically it's a five-year hold.

Matt Fore:

And then what we're ultimately looking for is how can we see a path to doubling our investors' capital within five years? If we have to do a bunch of funky things and pray for some magic and do a rain dance, then we're probably not going to do the deal. But if it's like, oh, we could do these two or three things and there's a clear path, then it makes sense for everybody around.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

And I know all those country people in tennessee do those rain dances that's right.

Matt Fore:

That's right. Did you see the cloud seating? Did you see the cloud seating stuff in dubai right now by the?

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

way, yes, I do that's crazy right like what is happening to the world today. It's insane. Yes, I watch all the stuff but it's funny because having like southern parents they're you know, they're religious but there are so many like wives tales that everybody believes in all this stuff. It's like that's why nobody in my family got involved in anything other than just like the job, the man thing and you know, at the end of the day that's safe. But I don't feel like it is safe. I mean, my stepmom worked at General Motors and they closed down and they put everybody on like a forced retirement no-transcript.

Matt Fore:

I am so glad you said that and we're having this conversation because, look, I, if you, if you have a skillset like what you're doing, passionate about what you're doing, work like the people you work with all those sorts of things no one's telling you to stop doing what you're doing and go do something else. However, the biggest risk you can take financially in your entire life is tying yourself to one income stream. I've been in W2 jobs where I had to lay off people who were 62, who spent 24 years in our company, and I remember, right before I made that call, I called him and said, hey, this is what's about to happen, et cetera. He just said, matt, no, please, I just need two more years. I'm just not ready, please don't do this just yet.

Matt Fore:

It was another two and a half years before that man found another job and now he's going to have to work longer than he expected because he had to draw down off his retirement accounts for so many years. So if nothing, if it's real estate, that's great. If it's investing in a business, that's great. If it's doing a little bit of extra, something on the side to pick up some extra money, that's fine too. I would just encourage every listener out there to find an additional way to earn an income stream, because tying yourself to one income stream is the most dangerous thing you can do.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

I just I can't even tell you how much I agree with that. I remember my dad and Lois so I call her my little mom and my stepmom. I remember them calling me my husband and they were like 60 ish or 65, maybe 65. And they my dad had retired from the power company. She had been forced into early retirement because they closed all the General Motors factories and they called and said listen, we've gone through all of our money, we're going to run out of money in two years.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

I was like what do you mean? You're going to run out of money Like you're 65. You I was like what do you mean? You're gonna run out of money like you're 65? You have years to live, you're running out of money. And so at that time I got them into some rentals and they like to go putter around and, you know, work on their rentals because they're retired and stuff like that. But shocking how many people like you just said, like the gentleman, that you had to let go. They're like right there, but then nobody wants to hire someone that's 65 to come to work because they can hire someone that's 25 that'll work for less. And they're like oh yeah, they're old, they're going to die or whatever they think. And so I remember my dad. I never forget the day he called. He's like we're going to run out of money in two years. I was like wow.

Matt Fore:

Crazy.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

A whole life.

Matt Fore:

How are you guys going to run out of money? Yeah, and that goes back to kind of the point we were talking about originally, if the goal of these retirement accounts is to stick money in the ground and hope that a tree grows so that you can chop down that tree and use it for firewood later in life, why not just go ahead and start building that income stream today?

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

No, I'm with you. So my dad was really eye-opening. I think maybe around that time I started learning about syndication, because all I needed to tell him was like, buy some rentals. They're in your little town, you guys can drive over and fix them up and they'll give you something to do. You putter around on all this stuff, which they still do today. They just putter around on their rentals, which is fun for them because now they're in their mid eighties, so it's a fun thing. But not everybody has that ability or someone like me to give them any kind of advice. And I've been easy to say look, throw your mind into syndications and just keep traveling and running around and keep doing everything you're doing instead of like being tied down to things.

Matt Fore:

Right, right, I agree.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

People don't know. They just don't know that it's there. And I did not know that you weren't allowed to advertise. I don't know why I didn't know that. I didn't know you're allowed to not advertise.

Matt Fore:

So you're allowed to advertise. If it's a 506C, we do both 506B and 506C offerings because we believe that real estate can be a path for people to create wealth as well and we want to offer them that option if available. So if it's a smaller deal, we will offer it as a 506B. But we try to stay very clean in our operations and say we've never advertised the deal on social media or to anybody that we don't know. So you can't come knocking on our door. That's saying that we advertised for a deal that we shouldn't have.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

So the 506B is people that are not accredited and don't have X amount of money and X amount of this and this. And this is someone that says hey, I've got 75,000 bucks sitting in my account, I just want to give it to you guys. You can't advertise that, but you can advertise the 506 C's.

Matt Fore:

Correct, correct. But since we do both, we just firewall it and say we we've never advertised, we're not going to advertise. So if the SEC ever asks, then we can just quickly point to the fact that we've never done it.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

So the SEC, I'm telling you, after the 2008, 9, 10, all that crash, they tightened up so many things Like the Dodd-Frank and all this stuff got so tight. It's like but how do you expect investors Like why are you cramping in on us? We're the ones helping people have financial freedom and work for themselves and enjoy all the privileges that come with all the things like that. And they just like, and they just make it like every year it feels like they just put more restrictions on investors.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

when it's like yeah this is the best thing that ever happened to the country.

Matt Fore:

Yeah, most of that's regulatory capture. Right, there's few people that own the market and have the money to play in this space. They know that if more people can play in the space, then it'll make competition and erode away margins. So ultimately, like, let's just stick our foot in the ground and draw a line and protect ourselves over here with, like, all the big tech companies too. All the big tech companies like when the Facebook and uh and some of the big social media companies go up to Capitol Hill and say, yeah, we need regulations in the space. I bet you do. You've already captured the market.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

You don't want anybody else coming in. It's like, well, that's going to affect Facebook, so I want to control that and I'm going to get rid of this one, because everybody loves TikTok, so they do. They regulate us to death. I, I I hate the fact that things seem to get more regulated all the time. That's why I just like being an investor and being free and I do what I want to do investing in the syndications and different things like that but then it just gives people and they you're right the government the big tech. They don't want us to have the freedom, they want us to be in their wheel right, or at least stop people from coming in to compete it away yes, they do.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

They buy the big companies out. It's like every time I see some big company merger over some other company, it's like wonder how many people just lost their jobs right I wonder how many people like just got like thrown to the wolves so that this company can make a billion more dollars this year that they don't need. I'm not hating on big companies. You guys, I'm all in on the big thing. I'm also a lot of those big companies. Started with mom and pop that built a big ass company but so controlling over everything.

Matt Fore:

Yeah, yeah.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

So what would you say to someone brand new, Like they hear the podcast, like, hey, I really like Matt, for I'm going to get on one of his. Did you do? Calls webinars.

Matt Fore:

Webinars email lists yeah.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

So they get on. They're like hey, I really like what you said. I heard about you over from Dwan and I want to listen and I hear it and I want to invest. I've got some money. So what would it be like a person like I come to you off of a webinar. What's my first step?

Matt Fore:

Yeah, it's just ultimately setting up a call with us and during that call right during that call you'll either get myself or one of our partner, my partners, and basically we're just ask a bunch of questions like why do you want to invest in real estate? What are your goals? Let's make sure this is the right opportunity for you.

Matt Fore:

Duann, we've raised we've been very fortunate to raise over $105 million in the past couple of years here, and I can tell you, the worst thing in the world for both of us to do is for me to accept capital in a deal that you don't know what you're investing in, because ultimately it's going to take a lot more time for me to continue to explain what's going on in a deal and it's going to put a lot more stress on you to understand what's going on in a deal. So we like to use those calls to really chart out what a person's goal is in terms of investing in a real estate and make sure it's a right fit. If your goal is cashflow, you should not be investing in a development opportunity. If your goal is appreciation, you should not be investing in just straight private money debt offerings. Let's figure out what you're really looking for, and then we can talk through the opportunities to see if they're a fit.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

Yeah, no, I agree with you. I teach a lot of seminars. I actually have sold over 500,000 of my own training programs.

Matt Fore:

That's awesome.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

A lot of people have been like I love Dwan, I'm on board. She's people for profit. I love this thing. But I tell people, listen, if you have a bunch of money, you should not just jump in and jump into some of these people that charge 75,000 dollars for a training program and then no one actually trains and coaches you. And you shouldn't just jump in and buy things blindly if you don't know what you're doing or don't have someone to help you or guide you or mentor you. Or, in your case, like, blindly if you don't know what you're doing or don't have someone to help you or guide you or mentor you. Or, in your case, like, do all the stuff that has to be done, the research first, because people can lose everything in one deal.

Matt Fore:

Yeah, and to that point, investing in commercial is much different than investing in residential. It's more prone to market shifts. It's more prone to interest rate cuts or raises. It's got a lot of different terminology in terms of economic vacancy cap rates. The debt is structured completely different in commercial real estate. So we actually put together like an eight-week bootcamp program for people that want to understand this industry and are like hey, I'm a doctor, I've got money to deploy. I'm looking at all these opportunities. I don't even know what's a good deal or a bad deal. Or we just kind of go through different case studies, walking through our deals and other people's deals, and just picking them apart and saying like here's the risk that they're not telling you about, here's some things you need to know before you would invest in this deal, specifically for that point, to get people educated.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

And see I feel like a lot of people are like you have eight week bootcamp. I feel like a lot of people are like oh, let me show you this amazing $50,000 coaching program and I'll help you with everything, but then they don't. So now I go and I teach at a multi-speaker thing and they're like oh, I spent $50,000 here and $20,000 here and I haven't done any deals yet. It's like okay, first of all stop.

Matt Fore:

I saw people.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

I said, find someone where your moral compass aligns and work with that person and then find an opportunity Like do you want to be hands-on? Do you want to be hands-off? You want to be hands-off, do a syndication, find a company that has a track record and they do all the research for you and, like you said, learn and educate and figure it out, because you can make so much money in real estate. But I see so many people that make these tragic mistakes, like, oh, it didn't work for me and it's like, but it works for everybody.

Matt Fore:

Yeah, yeah, just like in every market, somebody is out there doing deals and making money. I don't want to hear that your market's a bad market Now. It might not align with the goals that you have and you might not have the time to go build your network relationship deal flow that this person did, but even in San Francisco and New York City, people are doing real estate deals and making millions of dollars, so I know it works. It's just a different strategy you might have to use depending on the market that you're in.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

Amen. I think the number one question people ask me is like oh, what about the market? The market's changing. I was like well, people become millionaires in bad markets. People become millionaires in good markets. It's not about the market, it's about your knowledge, because when a market goes up or down, for me it doesn't make any difference. I'm still doing my thing. I'm sure for you guys, you're still investing in buying apartments and whatever you're doing, the market doesn't matter. It's the knowledge to know what to do with the market.

Matt Fore:

I like your comment around people are making millions of bad markets and good markets, except for. I would change it just slightly and say people are making millions in good markets. People are making billions in bad markets Because when people are afraid to do deals is the best time to make a deal happen. So right now, for instance, there's a lot of talk over oversupply in these markets, oversupply, oversupply, oversupply.

Matt Fore:

Well, I don't know if you're watching new starts on some of these larger markets out there. They're starting to fall off a cliff, which tells you that in 2026, there's going to be no new supply on the market and rents will increase dramatically. Home prices will increase dramatically and I know it hurts to buy a deal right now at 2022 pricing with a 7% interest rate. But if you can find a way to make that deal work for your criteria, my criteria is going to be different than your criteria. If you can make it work for your criteria, my criteria is going to be different than your criteria. If you can make it work in your criteria, then five years from now, that will probably be a home run deal because no new supply is coming on the market during that time.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

I agree. I feel like people make the most money in a bad market because, like when everyone's like running and it's like blood on the streets, the people that know they're like, oh man, there's so much money to be made right now, but you have to maybe have a little bit higher risk factor and be willing to do things and jump into things. And I just feel like everyone's so worried about the market right now. It's like, oh my God, I don't want to hear about the market, it makes no difference. I've been doing this for 30, almost 35 years. The markets have gone all over the map and we're still all making money.

Matt Fore:

And let me just pull on the string a little bit, because everybody's like oh, when the market improves, I'm going to buy, or in the market gets worse, I'm going to buy. No, you won't, because I think that I am very in control with my emotions around finances and I understand mathematically how finances work and money works and all those sorts of things. But I would be lying to you if I didn't say, at the end of March 2020, I wasn't scared as well. That was the best time to buy real estate. But at the same time I was looking at, my equity portfolio was down 40%. I didn't know if I was going to receive rent next month for all my properties that I own, and even I was scared to do deals during that time. So I can tell you if the market gets shocked like that, if you're not doing deals now, you are definitely not going to do deals when there's a sudden shock to the system.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

They're not. And when the COVID all started, we had started buying some commercial buildings in this little town called Clinton, iowa, where my husband's from, and they had this little nine block by nine, three block by three, this little nine block downtown thing. And so we had started buying a few buildings. And it's like rejuvenating the downtown, like, oh, we're part of this little thing. And then COVID happened and people, no one bought anything. We bought like 15 buildings, wow, because they were dirt cheap. And then people that own them were like I'll finance them for you, just take them off my hands. Because everybody was afraid and I'm like are you kidding me? We increase our net worth so much because, like, hey, we don't have the money. We can't get over the bank right now. Covid's happening. If you can finance all these buildings, we'll take all of them. And we ended up with a total of 28 buildings.

Matt Fore:

Awesome, awesome.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

Do you still own those? Heck? Yeah, we're fixing up the town. I'm making a home on town right now.

Matt Fore:

I got we'll chat offline. I got to connect you with somebody. He just bought a mobile home park in Clinton Iowa and he lives over in Des Moines. So when you said Clinton Iowa, I'm like I actually know where that is.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

Yes, it is. Well, it's right on the river and, like in the town, there's a bridge and on the other side is Illinois, so it's right there. So, illinois, they were like locked all the way down. But over in Clinton and Iowa they didn't have all the lockdowns, so our business went crazy, because people drive over the bridge and they could like walk around free and go downtown and go into stores, because I illinois was so locked down, iowa wasn't. So it's like I kept telling people like, listen, y'all need to invest. You, it's in covid, you need to invest. Like everyone's scared. And we ended up with 20 parcels all through that and and everyone was like, oh, whatever, you need, take these off our hands, we're going to get stuck. And I was like, but it's other people's fear, that's not playing on their fear, but they're really terrified and they really want to unload everything they think they're going to get stuck with. And then, if you're the right person at the right time and you know what you're doing, the market makes no difference. I'm just like we'll take everything.

Matt Fore:

Yeah, I need to get in your deal flow. That's awesome.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

I know, wait, I tell you so. So we started rehabbing. This is where my husband is from, so like we go back to our high school reunions there were both 65, 66. So every five years you see everyone.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

I was like this little town you're from is so cute and it's on the water and it used to be like really a bustly and then like out here they put in a casino and the Walmart and the restaurants and like everyone left the downtown and went, like you know, out here the downtown just kind of sat there forever and after like the third time we went back I was like why don't we buy something? They have to have. This is opportunity zone. There has to be something, there has to be some kind of re-beautification. That'd be something. I make a phone calls, found out they have this whole partnership thing and like no one's buying buildings. So we're like they're so cheap. The first building we bought is like 25 000 square feet and we bought it for 35 000 and it's beautiful it's beautiful and we just ripped it out, put in new carpet, new stuff, and put in an antique mall.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

Boom, covid happened. Everyone's shopping because they can drive across the bridge and they can shop. We're like, oh my god, we're gonna buy everything. So what happened is we get going and you have to vote. So every little thing, like a fall festival or winter fest or whatever, everybody votes because our taxes go into a fund for just the downtown. And you know, we're big thinkers and we kept getting out voted on things all the time. I was like listen, how many more parcels do we have to own to just control the vote? So we buy eight more next meeting. We're like, okay, here's what the twyfords want to do like I have the vote.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

I'm like we actually own this extra things, we control the vote. So now here's what we're going to do and the whole town is like it has all these festivals and music and things like home market, just all this stuff's happening and I just feel like the people didn't see that live there and they're in the small town, they didn't see enough of the big picture to to really turn it around. And we're like big picture thinkers and we would invest, like you like, all over the country and all over the place. I'm like, no, but you could take this little area and put in malls and shopping and places to have drinks and coffee and food, and it could be a little Mecca. And so we just took control of the Beltline County. Here's what we're doing now and it's so fun. So I'm like rehabbing a town.

Matt Fore:

That might be one of the best stories I've heard so far, but I think I heard you gloss over a very interesting detail. You said all of those are in an opportunity zone as well. Yes, oh my gosh.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

Yeah, the whole downtown, the whole nine blocks, is 100% opportunity zone. So for people that don't know what that means, if you own it for 10 years, there's no capital gain. So we're like we're buying everything we can get our hands on. So finally I was like listen, so I had to stop buying buildings, like stop, we have to fix up everything that we have. And then, you know, we couldn't get a lot of things done during covid and then he had a little cancer scare. Some things slowed us down. But it's like no, we're just going in, we're going to make all this happen and and there's just opportunity everywhere. Like to the point, I guess, is that when people think, oh my god, covid's happening, the world's on fire, it's like that you have people investing, we're investing, there's opportunity. There's never not a time when there's opportunity.

Matt Fore:

Yeah, yeah. What's that old statement? The best time to invest in real estate was 20 years ago. The next best time is yesterday.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

It's true, though it is so true, it's like it is the best time. And I see people all the time, oh, I'm gonna do it in the market changes and I and I'm like, no, you're not. Just honestly, be honest with yourself, you're not going to, it's never going to happen. Just walk away. Just walk away if you want to invest. Invest today, because when tomorrow comes, there'll be another reason, another reason, another reason, another reason. That's why I like syndications. People that don't really want to be in real estate can still be in real estate.

Matt Fore:

Yeah, and I mean we make a business out of it as well. So we're actively in the business, so we know deal flow, we have connections like all those sorts of things. I tell people all the time we have a lot of doctors that come through our funnels and those sorts of things and hey, how do I get involved in doing what you're doing? I want to do what you're doing and I'm like man, you're already making a million dollars doing the skill set that you have. Why do you want to go learn a totally different skillset?

Matt Fore:

And another aspect that they don't really talk about in syndications is if you're a doctor, you have so many different ways people want to sue you and malpractice, why do you want to get involved in real estate where you're just adding other ways that you can get sued? If you invest as a limited partner in syndications, you are not legally responsible for anything that happens on the property. Your only risk is the capital you put in the deal. So it is legally the risk, the best risk adjusted position you can be in in real estate.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

No, I'm all for it. I love that I had the opportunity to I interviewed. I was like, oh, I love people that are in syndication. It's like, it's like my favorite and ironically, I don't do it right now. I think I'm so like up to my eyeballs and buildings, but I want to get involved in some and put some, just place some money there, cause I just want to be a part of, like, the whole syndication vibe.

Matt Fore:

I know a guy.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

You do know a guy too now. All right, let's jump topics Um. What's your favorite band of all time?

Matt Fore:

Oh, man, I read probably I'm going to give you the answer Red H hot C hili P eppers. I haven't seen the red hot chili peppers play and they are starting to get up there in age. I want to see them perform before, before they stop.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

You have to. I love the red hot chili peppers, so I'm'm a I'm a fan of the rolling stones and they're doing a tour right now and they're coming to denver in june and I'm like, listen, I told my husband, I don't care if they're 10 000 a ticket. Those men gotta go almost 90 and one of them's already died. I said you better get tickets to the rolling stones, because how many more times are they going to tour?

Matt Fore:

yeah, exactly you know.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

So so where I don't know. So, uh, june 24th, we're going to figure out, because it takes like sold in like a minute. So we're going to figure out whatever it costs. I'm like we're going to go see the stones. I'm gonna give a shit what it costs, we're just going to go. They're like literally all dead, they're all pickled, they're dragged out. It's amazing, they're still even.

Matt Fore:

It is incredible, incredible to see Mick Jagger still dancing.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

He's like such a peacock, he's just dancing and stuff. I'm like it's like 87 years old. It's like look at that guy, man, that's drugs and alcohol for you.

Matt Fore:

What's your favorite food? Probably Japanese. I don't know why. I've just always loved Japanese food. I'm in a big health kick right now, though, so I am getting older in age to where a nice salad sounds good, but man, give me some yum yum sauce and hibachi.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

How old are you?

Matt Fore:

37.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

Oh my God, shut up my daughter's your age. You're a puppy. I'm getting older. I'm 65. Talk to me when you're 65.

Matt Fore:

Hopefully, hopefully 65.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

Hopefully, hopefully. And what's your favorite part of the day, matt? Like when you all throughout the day like what's your thing? You're like this is amazing.

Matt Fore:

Mornings by far. I love to see the sunrise. I love to get my workouts in before the morning starts. It's just, I believe in paying yourself first. So I get up at four, get a little bit of journaling, stretching, moving, doing that sort of stuff, get into my workout and then having that time before the craziness starts of back-to-back calls and emails and pings and all that, it's my favorite part of the day.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

Yeah, I like that it's. I always figure. I always say you can tell a lot about a person by their music, because when you like, the red hot chili peppers are great, so when you relate to that music, those are songs that like speak to you and someone else knows that band like, oh yeah, I get that. So I feel like music connects universally, worldwide. Music connects everybody.

Matt Fore:

My best opener for icebreakers when I'm in large groups is best concert, worst concert, best concert, first concert. So what was your first concert, what's the best concert you've ever been to? And you would be surprised, in a large group, like people will name bands I've never even heard of, but somebody's heard of them and somebody's like, oh my gosh, I love them. Oh my gosh, I saw that tour and those sorts of things.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

I'm going to tell you my first concert, David Cassidy.

Matt Fore:

I don't even know who, david.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

Cassidy.

Matt Fore:

Oh my gosh really.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

I was 13. That was my first concert. I mean, my girlfriend, my dad, let us go, let us go in alone. And we're like oh, we're so grown up right now.

Matt Fore:

So cool 13,.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

David Cassidy and I happened. My husband, you know I was like a part of the Monkees, the Brady Bunch. Like that was my decade and my era, I guess, and the Osmonds and the Jackson F ive, like that whole thing was was my age. And four or five years ago, um, my husband surprised me with tickets to see David Cassidy at a really small venue and you could pay a thousand bucks extra and meet him. He's like oh, do you want to meet him? I'm like hell, no, I don't want to meet him. The man's an alcoholic. He's been married three times.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

I have this like 13-year-old girl crush at 60. And if he's an asshole, it'll like ruin my life. So I was like, so he bought these backstage. I said just give them to somebody else. I do not want to meet this man and I know all the things and I'm like I don't want to be crushed as an adult. But I am telling you, the minute he walked out on stage, all these women in their 60s, we were all 13. We were dancing, everyone's in the aisles, everybody's holding hands, and my husband's like one of three guys and they're all looking around like why are we here?

Matt Fore:

Yeah, there is a saying don't meet your hero.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

I've always heard that and I thought, no, I can't. It's my first concert and if he's like drunk or he's an asshole, it's like I'll be too crushed. So I didn't. And here and I was, I was like oh sweet, you got the tickets, like I love all that, but no, there's no chance. And then he died like a year later, and I was super happy I didn't meet him because I was 13.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

It was like, oh my God, you know it was amazing and so um. So now, what is a big goal that you're still trying to reach and how can the wonderful people help you reach that goal?

Matt Fore:

Um, I would say one goal that I have in life is to run seven marathons and seven continents. Um, there's a race that seven marathons, seven continents, seven days that's always really interested me. Um, I also have some goals Like I want. At one time in my life I wanted to climb all seven summits. Now that I'm getting older I'm like I don't know if that's a goal as much as maybe just see them all. I've always I'm debating this idea of running across America too, like running from San Diego to DC. I think would be a one, a phenomenal way just to see the country and meet people along the way. But the support you need and all those sorts of things is something.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

You let me know, email my people. I have them all donate, so my daughters love Japan. They speak fluent Japanese. Both my daughters and they ran a merit like a full. I said like I hate, to say I don't know this. The 26 K. Yeah, 26.2 miles I hate to say it, but I don't know this. The 26K, yeah, 26.2 miles, that's it.

Matt Fore:

They ran a full marathon in Japan like five years and the Tokyo one.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

Yep.

Matt Fore:

Yeah, the Tokyo marathon's very big. I love Japanese culture, something about the community aspect, the cleanliness of it, the orderliness of it, the details behind it. I just fascinated with the culture.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

So I've kind of always wanted to get 35 and 37 your age. They my two daughters love japan. They learn, taught themselves. They took college classes to learn japanese. Like they speak without at. The people say they speak without accents because they've learned it so well and they vacation and travel there and like we're gonna do a marathon. I was like seriously in japan. They were like there for like three weeks and they finished. They both finished in the time frame and it was like the greatest thing. They were like they're for like three weeks and they finished. They both finished in the timeframe and it was like the greatest thing. They were just like. They still talk about it today how amazing it was.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

So I think you should definitely do the seven marathons and seven continents.

Matt Fore:

And seven days.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

Oh, and seven days. I will root for you and send support. Not even trying to attempt something like that, when, when I first when I first heard of that race.

Matt Fore:

Something with that has just stuck with me forever.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

So I think, yeah, I think I'm gonna have to put it down and I'll email because I always want to help everyone reach their goals and and all my folks I say, hey, donate and help and do things and be part of a community, and we would love to help support you on that. So you do that and I will let all my people know that they got to support Matt for because he's seven days off, man.

Matt Fore:

Yeah, they, they get you on a plane. It's like you run get you on a, you're done, Take an hour shower, get you on a plane.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

Once you land, you got like an hour you go run again, then you move again. I feel like I'd be dead on the second day.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

Oh yeah, for sure I mean if jet lag alone would kill you for traveling that much. Oh so much fun, though. All right. So, folks, if you have enjoyed this podcast today, I want you to do me a favor. First of all, wherever you're listening, I want you to take a minute, leave a five-star review and leave a comment and just say, oh my god, d Dwan and Matt are so fun. I loved every minute of it. So leave a comment, leave a five-star review. I want you to find Matt. So Matt at nextlevelincome. c nextlevelincomecom right, and go to dwanderful. com. I have some free eBooks for you and you're doing podcasts and all the things that Matt and I do.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

It's our business, but it's also a labor of love and we can't do it without your support. So when you like it, you hear it, you support it. Just be, just be a part of it. There's like, be a part. If you don't know about syndications, get on a call and learn. Take the eight-week class and figure out what it is, because it's a great thing. That's a great thing. Okay, last thing of the day, I want you to give me a parting word of wisdom, but just a single word, one word of wisdom.

Matt Fore:

Curious.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

You came up with that word fast.

Matt Fore:

I think if we were all just a little bit more curious about what the other person was saying and why they were saying it, the world would be a better place. Instead of being judgmental, Amen.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

I cannot agree with you more about that. There is too much judgment in this world today. People have lost their minds. I don't even want to talk about it. People have, like, lost their minds, so I love it. So the people that are my regular listeners they take the word curious and that's our word of the week. So everyone in, curious is your word of the week. He just told you what it means to him. So be more curious and stop y'all being so opinionated.

Matt Fore:

Love it. That's a really hard question. I'm going to use that from now on.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

Well, I never tell people in advance because I used to say, give us a word of wisdom and people give like a five minute thing and it's like, oh, it's too long, so I'm always going to do a word. But if you tell people ahead of time, the whole time they're thinking about their word. So it's better to say, give me a word, and then people really tell you what's really at the top of their mind.

Matt Fore:

You threw me off with the just one word Because I was going down this long diatribe of philosophy, but when you said just one word, that's what made me stop. That's a good question.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

It makes everybody stop. And then they're like, oh, a word, it's like hmm. And then they have to think and you can see the way people are moving, like they're thinking it's like whatever word comes out, that's what's important to them.

Matt Fore:

So curious is a great word because I am so curious about people, which is why I podcast.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

I love it, I love it I love people, I'm people, I'm curious and I'm curious about the whole world, all the things in the whole world. Okay. So again I want to thank you for being on and sharing time with us. I know that time is our most valuable asset. You may not realize that at 37, but you will realize that at 65.

Matt Fore:

I certainly realize it already.

Dwan Bent-Twyford:

So I appreciate you spending the time with us and all listeners. I always appreciate you all investing an hour of your time to listen to all the super fun people that I interview and again leave reviews, follow, subscribe, go to youtube, all the things. Just be a part of all the things and we'll be back next week, same bat time, same bat channel, and remember that the truth is in the red letters. All right, everybody. Ciao bye, thank you thank you.