You Can Sell Faster By Refusing To Build A White Box

Most houses can be “nice” and still be totally forgettable. That’s why I loved talking with Denver real estate broker and developer Athena Brownson about the difference between building a home that simply checks boxes and creating a property people instantly remember.

Athena shares how she’s spent 13 years in residential real estate by specialising in relationships, not gimmicks, and how that trust turns into a referral-driven business. We dig into her move into luxury residential development with her father, and why she’s so determined to avoid the characterless white box trend. If you’re a builder, developer, or house flipper, you’ll hear specific ideas on sourcing finishes, making design choices that stand out, and why you don’t always need a bigger budget to create a better product. We also talk staging with a twist: estate sales and one-of-a-kind pieces that add history and personality without inflating costs.

Then the conversation takes a turn into something more personal and, honestly, more important: invisible illness. We talk openly about rheumatoid arthritis, fibromyalgia, Lyme disease, brain fog, fatigue, and what it takes to keep showing up for clients, family, and yourself. Athena’s word of wisdom is “grit” and we unpack it as the art of showing up, even when it’s hard.

If you know someone in real estate who needs a smarter edge, or someone dealing with chronic health issues who needs to feel less alone, share this episode with them. Subscribe, leave a five-star review, and tell us: what does grit look like in your life?

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Transcript

Welcome And Quick Introductions

Dwan Bent-Twyford 0:47

Hey everybody, welcome to the most Dwanderful real estate podcast ever. I'm the host, Dwan Bent-Twyford, I am America's most sought after real estate investor. And I'm so excited about my guest today. I have a woman. I told my podcast guy that you booked me so many men like me. There have to be some women. Go find it. I said, Go find me some women. So I'm really excited to have a woman and also to have Athena on the show today. Um, for those of you that might be new to the Dwanderful Universe, I took my first name Dwan and the word wonderful, and I combined it and I made Dwanderful. So you are in the Dwanderful universe, and we just talk about real estate and money and health and wealth and all the things. And uh if you're looking for me, you can just type in Dwanderful again, D-W A N D E R F U L, Dwanderful.com on everything. Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, I don't know what else thread. LinkedIn, threads, Dwanderful's everywhere. So just I'm super easy to find. So Miss Athena, welcome to the show today. How are you?

Athena Brownson 2:04

Oh, I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me. Excited to speak to another a fellow boss lady and have a little bit of fun.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 2:12

And I have to tell you you are so, so, so pretty.

Athena Brownson 2:15

Oh, thank you. Right back at you.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 2:17

I was pretty just like, wow, you're so pretty.

Athena Brownson 2:20

I appreciate it. You know, I the the ring lighting really gives me that nice glow.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 2:25

So I've got the ring lighting. I didn't even put that much makeup on. So I was like, oh, the ring lighting really does it forgives a lot of things.

Athena Brownson 2:33

It really does.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 2:36

Yes, I am a fan. Uh so what we like to do, first of all, I want to welcome you to the most Dwanderful real estate podcast ever. And I really kind of like to just throw my guests to the wolves and just have you like in two sentences, tell us your name and what you do, like in a sentence, because I got to ask you questions. And how can everybody find you on social media?

Athena Brownson 3:02

Absolutely. Well, I'm Athena Brownson. I'm in Denver and I'm a real estate broker and real estate developer. And if you would like to find me, I love connecting. And my handle, I'll give you my Instagram. It's Athena Brownson Realtor. That's also my website. So www.athena brownsonrealtor.com. Um, you can pretty much find me on everything through that handle, just like you said.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 3:33

Yeah, you're just everywhere.

Athena Brownson 3:35

Keep it easy.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 3:36

You have to be, you honestly really have to be everywhere.

Athena Brownson 3:40

You have to. It and there's new things popping up all the time. It's um the world is moving

Athena’s Broker Origin Story

Athena Brownson 3:45

quickly.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 3:47

That is the truth. So you are in Denver. I love that. And yeah, I'm surprised you and I have never crossed paths being in Denver.

Athena Brownson 3:55

I know. Now we're gonna have to.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 3:58

Now we're gonna have to meet up and have lunch and stuff. Because I go to some of those. There's a couple women's groups. I've been to a couple of those and the RIA and some of the things like that. So it's like, yeah, I'm happy that you're in Denver. That's amazing.

Athena Brownson 4:12

Me too. No, I'm excited to connect, and um, we definitely are gonna have a lot in common being in the you know greater Denver metro area because it's um it's a small world. So I'm sure now we'll see each other all the time.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 4:26

And I like that you said that too. It's like, yeah, women you all right. So you are an agent and a broker. So tell me about that. So you're a broker and what properties do you do? What do you specialize in? Like, you know, what's your deal?

Athena Brownson 4:42

Absolutely. So I've been a broker for 13 years now, as of like yesterday, which blows my mind. I have no idea where the last 13 years went. Um, but you know, when I when you say what do you specialize in, I honestly I specialize in relationships. I have built incredible relationships with clients over the last 13 years, given them, you know, the top service imaginable and in residential buying and selling. And through those relationships, I've been able to help them through the chapters of their lives. So 98% of my business is from past clients or past client referrals. And I honestly um wouldn't have it any other way. I love it. I I love building that trusted relationship with my clients that they know they can rely on me to actually take care of them and to help them through their biggest acquisition imaginable. So I absolutely love being a broker. Um and as of the last like three, four years, I joined my father, who's a residential real estate developer up in Breckenridge, actually. Um, I got him to come down to Denver and partner with me. And we started doing some luxury residential development over the last several years. And that's really um something I've become extremely passionate about. I absolutely love developing.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 6:09

I know. So when you guys are doing uh development, tell me about any any project that you guys, because I love developing too. And I still think, and you'll probably agree with me, I still feel like most people when they think of real estate developers and landowners,

Stepping Into Luxury Development

Dwan Bent-Twyford 6:26

they still think it's like the man's business.

Athena Brownson 6:29

Totally.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 6:30

And then they see a woman, they're like, You're a developer?

Athena Brownson 6:32

And I still like what are you doing?

unknown 6:35

Right?

Athena Brownson 6:38

It is a very male-dominated field, and and we have to show them what's up, you know. So, you know, a project that I completed about a year ago that I absolutely it's my favorite project to date. I I couldn't be more pleased with how it came out. It's in the University Hills neighborhood in Denver. It was a about a 4,200 square foot house, five bedroom, four-bathroom. And I think what I love about development is that I can take everything that I learned from my clients, everything that I'm seeing that they want in properties, their wish list. And I can not only bring that into the development, of course, but I am so sick of seeing white boxes that have absolutely no character that are getting thrown up all over the city. So it's become really important for me to make sure that we're creating something that's unique and memorable. So I'm very hands-on when it comes to the interior design portion. I pick out all of our finishes and I make sure that we're doing something that, yes, is palatable to you know, a wide demographic, but it's different from everything that you're seeing in, you know, this the standard white box development that is happening all over our city and all over the country, really. Um and I love it. I mean, for example, we took this beautiful black subway tile in a kitchen and brought it all the way up to the ceiling for the backsplash instead of just, you know, maybe like a 12-inch backsplash. We took it all the way up and yeah, it was incredible. Um,

Designing Homes With Real Character

Athena Brownson 8:15

I'll have to send you pictures, but and it creates a statement, you know, it it creates something that's memorable for people to latch on to. And it it really helps differentiate our properties from anything else. So I'm I'm definitely proud of what we we've created and what we are creating.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 8:34

Yeah, I love that because I honestly feel well, you know, I used to rehab how like for about a decade, I was strictly a rehabber, and I don't always try to bring in something new or interesting and not make them all look like you just went shopping at Home Depot.

Athena Brownson 8:50

Exactly.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 8:53

You know, exactly. People don't want to put the extra work or I don't know, maybe they don't have like the talent to design and decorating. It could be that, it could just be that they watch too much HGTV. We can take this house and we'll put in, you know, $85,000 and we'll make all this profit. And it's like, but dude, the house, like it's terrible, it's really terrible. And people just don't spend the time on that. Why do you think that is? They just corners you think, or they just really don't have talent for it.

Athena Brownson 9:27

Unfortunately, I don't think there's they care. I think that they they see a formula that quote unquote works um because they've seen other, you know, flippers or developers do it. They've seen it on HGTV, maybe. And instead of, you know, putting some creativity and some thought into it, they just choose, you know, what the easy option is. And what people don't realize is that you don't have to spend a a ton more money to create a unique product. You literally just need to spend the time to actually source materials that give your property a unique flair. And that's what's going to differentiate it from everything else, and that's what's going to help it sell. Because, you know, at the end of the day, if you're flipping a property and you think your margin is 85,000, but maybe interest rates go up a half percent like they did, you know, yesterday because of our interesting weekend that we had. And um that changes, you know, what your buyer demographic is gonna be drastically. And if you don't have something that's gonna make your property stand out from everyone else that's doing the same color palette and the and the same Home Depot finishes, then your your profit margins are gonna diminish very quickly.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 10:47

Yeah, when I first first first started, I uh it's funny because my first deal, I met some people and they said, Oh, we buy houses and we fix them up. And they said, we buy cars and we fix them up. So I thought, well, I don't know anything about cars, but you know, I'm a good decorator. I think I could decorate and I could make some houses with nice. So when they were saying like we buy them and we fix them and we sell them, I honestly from like the depths of my soul thought they were talking about decorating. So I buy this, I find this really super trashed house that looking back, I didn't know at the time what a hoarder was. I didn't know what the hoarder was, but as TV developed and they have those shows, buried

Rehab Reality Checks From A First Deal

Dwan Bent-Twyford 11:30

alive, all stuff, I was like, oh my god, my first house was a hoarder house.

Athena Brownson 11:34

Which was that's a great introduction.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 11:42

And they just move like five pieces of paper in the day, and then she removed everything in the weekend. And I looking back, it's like, oh my god, that must have been really hard for her. So I thought I was gonna decorate. So I you know make custom made blinds. It's like 1990, custom mobs everywhere, custom blinds, it's a carpet, this and that. And then I'm like, God, the kitchen is like still got that avocado. And like the wash and dryer are yellow, that old from the 70s. I'm like, what am I gonna do with this house? And then I realized that decorating and rehabbing, not the same thing, completely different, right? And I was like, no matter how many blinds of colors of paint, this house is I gonna have to redo all this stuff. So I actually started going to Home Depot because back then Home Depot had classes like every weekend, almost every day.

unknown 12:33

Really?

Dwan Bent-Twyford 12:40

At night when my daughter would be sleeping, I'd be building cabinets. So my first thoughts were like straight up on Home Depot. Whatever was the class, I asked the guy, there's what I need, they give it, they put it in my car, I take it home, and I would do that. But after, you know, three or four houses, I thought, gosh, these houses need to have they do need some decorating, they need some personality, they need something to make them better. And so then I started learning a little bit more about like interior design. And I learned a lot from going to like salvage yards.

unknown 13:13

Yeah.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 13:14

They have all these salvage places, especially in South Florida, where you know, some millionaire just doesn't like the shade of the brand new kitchen they spent hundreds grand on. They want a new one. And they're like, and I was like, I'm gonna add personality and you know, really decorate the outside and make it look good. It's not good out, people don't want to come in. Exactly. So I've always taken a lot of pride that all my houses always look really good. They look really good, especially for the whatever the price range is. Yeah, take that extra time, but I know lots of rehabbers that are just like, no, we bought cabinets one sale low, so we bought enough of the next eight houses.

Athena Brownson 13:55

Yeah.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 13:56

We bought you know 200 gallons of this paint, and we bought this, we bought that. It's like really, you don't want like you have like a little something.

Athena Brownson 14:04

A little imagination in there.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 14:06

And they're just like, no.

Athena Brownson 14:07

Yeah, and you know, you're such a woman after my own heart. You say going to salvage, are it's I've become over the last four years, I would say, um, absolutely mesmerized with going to estate sales. So I stage the properties that I, you know, that I develop and the ones that I um enlisting. And I find the most unique, um incredible pieces through estate sales, and they have so much history behind them, so much character. They're not, you know, the exact same staging you're seeing in every property. It it really gives the property a little bit of that extra flair. Um, but you know, you have to put in the time and and find out what resources

Salvage Finds And Estate Sale Staging

Athena Brownson 14:51

are are at your disposal. And again, usually I'm buying this stuff for pennies on the dollar. Uh, you know, really high quality furniture that's gonna make the house shine. But I I'm just putting in the extra time and a little bit of extra effort to make sure that we're going the extra mile because that's when you know your client's house is gonna make the most money or your own project is.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 15:13

Yeah, and whoever's buying that house, you know, that may be their dream home and they'll live there forever and ever and ever.

Athena Brownson 15:19

Exactly.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 15:20

I always like want to give everybody a great place. It's like, oh you live here, like, you know, I want you to have a beautiful place, raise your family. I like estate sales too. I only started going to them a couple years ago. We live up in Bailey, so we live like up in the mountains.

Athena Brownson 15:35

Oh, yeah.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 15:36

And I don't know, a couple years ago I noticed a bunch of signs that said like estate sales, and they were that day. But they'll now like, oh, let's go to one.

Athena Brownson 15:44

Yeah.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 15:45

Because we walked out with like half the stuff. But there was like some really old bars from like the 1800s. And there were, I mean, not not things I put in any of the houses we were fixing. I actually went into my own house. Neat.

Athena Brownson 16:06

Absolutely. And it really that's that's such a fun story because that's what I love doing when I'm not showing on the weekends is hunting for for those goodies. And, you know, like you said, you you want to create a product that you're proud of that people can live. When I'm thinking about like the mark that I want to leave on on my city and in the state that raised me, you know, I love Colorado so much, and I couldn't imagine putting something up that I wasn't extremely proud of that I couldn't imagine, you know, a family or or whoever living in for for the for hopefully, you know, a hundred years from now, it's still gonna be there. And and it really comes down to finding good workmanship too, because unfortunately there's a lot of uh really bad labor out there, and sometimes you learn that the hard way.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 17:34

It's bad. So much bad labor out there. So you uh do retail then. You mostly do retail, correct. So if somebody is interested in becoming uh so you're a broker and age, do you have your own brokerage?

Athena Brownson 17:48

No, I'm actually now under uh your castle real estate. I just just switched brokerages.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 17:54

Okay, that's nice. So you have your license, then you focus on the retail.

Athena Brownson 17:59

Correct.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 18:00

Okay, so I focus like on foreclosures. The people I deal with are actually like their sale date is probably within 30 or 45 days. So I I get the people that are losing their house at foreclosure, and then you know, we fix them up, we make them like super, super, super nice, and then sell them out retail. So if some of my people from my REA group or my Denver uh listeners uh are listening to you, then you're happy to take houses that these rehabbers have fixed up.

Athena Brownson 18:32

Absolutely.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 18:33

Yeah, put them on the market and be a consultant.

Athena Brownson 18:38

Yeah, like I I love being able to, you know, share whatever expertise I'm learning from what my buyers are wanting and what I'm seeing as trends and properties and and really help throughout the entire process from you know acquisition to renovation to getting it ready for sale and staging it and making sure it looks perfect. So my team and I um would absolutely, absolutely love to help

Why Investors Need The Right Agent

Athena Brownson 19:04

anyone that is interested.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 19:06

Because I always tell every new student that I get, I'm like, you have to find an investor-friendly real estate agent. Yes, maybe we'll see the house when you first buy it, or maybe even help sell it to you from the homeowner because you know it's like a short sale, the bank wants it to be listed. Like, find an agent that can help you like with the short sale and get the listing agreement, and then when you're done, they can put it back on the market and they can sell it for you. And I tell people the first thing you need before you start doing anything is you have to have an investor-friendly real estate agent because as investors, like I don't have my real estate license. I've always done the investing, I've sold I've actually done over 2,000 deals at this point.

Athena Brownson 19:54

I think I read that and I was blown away.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 19:57

So many. I wholesaled thousands, probably 1,200 deals. I was a wholesaling maniac for 15 years. I just wholesaled like a crazy person.

Athena Brownson 20:08

That's incredible.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 20:14

And and the mountains are really nice because you can really build whatever you want because the subdivisions aren't tight like they're in Denver. So this house can be like a castle, and this house can be something else, and and they all have their own land. So we could do some really, like really super beautiful creative stuff in a couple of the houses that we did.

Athena Brownson 20:34

I'd love to come see your project sometimes.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 20:37

So many. We have gosh, we have one house, it's just it's so beautiful. I was like, can we move to this house? But it has like forty feet of like Lani Doors that open to the mountains.

Athena Brownson 20:53

Wow. We have to have this.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 21:08

If that house had had the land that we have, we would have moved.

Athena Brownson 21:12

I love it. I love it. Yeah, that's incredible.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 21:20

That was something else. So um, yeah, so I always tell people you gotta find uh an investor-friendly agent because you're gonna have to have an agent, first of all, to sell your houses. If you do a short sale, you're gonna have to have to have your agent give you some listing agreements and you know do some different things like that. And then I'll meet someone, they go, Oh, I just haven't found an agent yet. It's like they're literally everywhere.

Athena Brownson 21:46

There are over 25,000 agents in Denver Metro alone.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 21:51

Um, unfortunately, not all are great, but so it's like, okay, you have no excuse not to have an agent.

Athena Brownson 21:59

Yeah. And I think, you know, the the differentiating factor though is what experience does that agent have? You know, how are they gonna represent your you and your property to the best possible um outcome? And and then finding that realtor that you want to build a long-term relationship with because you, you know, being able to do deal after deal together and kind of create that rhythm and flow, uh, it makes things a lot easier. So finding a great agent is definitely one of the best first steps.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 22:31

Yeah, you'll have to come as a guest to our uh Colorado Rhea and I would love to call and I'll be like, hey, right here, agent, and then follow your girl, female agent.

Athena Brownson 22:41

Thank you. Yeah, I I would love the opportunity to help anyone.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 22:50

But they are all guys, and I just like I don't know, it's like I prefer to have like a female doctor. I want a female, you know, who's gonna be looking at all my stuff to be like another woman, you know.

Athena Brownson 23:04

Totally.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 23:06

You know, I just like certain things, and I think that um as in the investing in the real estate side, it I think agents, there's a lot of female agents, but there's not that many female investors.

Athena Brownson 23:19

Yeah, and and that's a huge difference.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 23:21

Yeah, and I always like to like, you know, support like the home team.

Athena Brownson 23:26

Me too. No, I feel the same way. And um you know, love partnering up with amazing women and and creating amazing things, really. I mean how lucky are we?

Dwan Bent-Twyford 23:38

Yeah, you know how small of a town Bailey is.

Athena Brownson 23:40

Yeah.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 23:41

I want to go out to eat. I'm like, well, I could go to dinner and support some restaurant there, or I could just eat up here in my little piece of the woods up here and support the local businesses because you know, if people don't support them and and go there often, they go out of business.

Athena Brownson 23:57

They're gonna be gone.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 24:00

And changed over three or four times. So I'm like, no, I want to support a local business, they don't want to support investors, I want to support the girls.

Athena Brownson 24:10

I love it.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 24:12

I love it too. I how old are you?

Athena Brownson 24:14

I'm 35. Really. Well, thank you. I and honestly, I think that you're probably 40. Whatever you're doing, you look amazing.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 24:27

Um, 67.

Athena Brownson 24:29

I can't believe that.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 24:31

One thing I will say though, because people are like, what do you do? And I'm like, well, I don't know. I've been drinking water for lots of water for a hundred years, and all the women on my mom's side are they they look really good and they live really old. Like my Aunt Wanda is, I mean, honestly, she's turning 100 in October. If you leave her out on the street, you would not think she was a lot older than I was. She could be 75 all day.

Athena Brownson 24:59

That's incredible.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 25:00

And 89, and she looks so young. Women live long and they all look good.

Athena Brownson 25:08

Good jeans.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 25:09

I'm like, oh, thank you for those jeans.

Athena Brownson 25:11

Exactly.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 25:14

Everybody eats too much and drinks too much. And okay, I think I got my mom's good jeans, you know.

Athena Brownson 25:22

Yeah, that's perfect.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 25:24

But eating right does help. Drinking a lot of art does help, but I think jeans help more than anything because people always like, well, how you have to have Facebook by now. I'm like, dude, I don't have a Facebook. Like, there's this is it. There's no there's not there's a little bit of Botox. That's it.

Athena Brownson 25:39

You look incredible. That's amazing.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 25:42

People always like, oh, that's face lift. Money can buy. It's like, dude. You're like, just drink some more, drink a gallon of water when I have a facelift, if I ever have one. Because I've got rheumatoid arthritis, I've done a million podcasts about RA. I got fibromyalgia. I've done a whole bunch about fibro, like I talk about the things.

Athena Brownson 26:02

We need to talk about that sometime.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 26:07

Trust me, if I go there, you will know.

Athena Brownson 26:09

Yeah. No, I I've been battling Lyme disease for the last 10 years and it turned into every autoimmune disease in the book. So I get four plasma transfusions a month. So um, it's been the most gruesome road that I could ever imagine. And I think finally I'm starting to come out the other side and I couldn't be more excited about it. But you know, it what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, I guess.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 26:38

I know. When I um I got diagnosed with RA like seven years ago. And you know, like when you get the initial diagnosis, you're like so happy to know. I was just like, thank you. Okay, but then I start reading what it is and like, oh no. I could look back, so I got diagnosed at 60. I could look back, like even over the last 10 years and see times where I was having the symptoms, but they weren't often enough that I put it together to be something.

Athena Brownson 27:15

Yeah.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 27:16

And then I got diagnosed with fibro only just in

Invisible Illness And Staying In Motion

Dwan Bent-Twyford 27:19

January.

Athena Brownson 27:20

Wow.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 27:21

I'm telling you, I have had, I have canceled so many podcasts. I have had so many days where I feel like death. Like, yeah. I'm just like, how am I supposed to live like 20 or 25 more years like this? Like, what the hell? And then sometimes I'm like, Lord, listen, you know, I'm never gonna commit suicide. I would never consider it, but if you wanted to take me tonight, I will not be mad at you.

Athena Brownson 27:45

Like I wouldn't be mad at you right now. Now I've been there.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 27:49

Seriously.

Athena Brownson 27:51

Like, is this real life? Is it possible to actually hurt this much?

Dwan Bent-Twyford 27:55

I'm like, no, seriously. I I promise you, I won't be mad.

Athena Brownson 27:59

Yeah. No, I get it unfortunately. And um, you know, I think honestly, for me, one of the biggest things that's been like a driving factor is the fact that I have clients that I care so much about, and it's kept me moving forward and kept my eyes like looking ahead and being goal-oriented because there are so many days that you're like, I cannot survive this. I mean, I I can't move my body, it hurts so bad. I have such bad bad fatigue and brain fog that I can't think or see straight, you know, migraines that last for four days. The list goes on. And it's and it's like you you have to have something that is keeping you moving forward. And I think you know, we're we're both lucky to have that because this I think the second that you lose that is you can you kind of give in to the disease and it can just overcome, overtake your whole life.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 28:56

You do, you do. And I always say I was diagnosed, I never say I have, because you know that I I don't know if you're a Christian or read the Bible or anything, but um, but the Bible says not to speak things over yourself like oh my god, yeah dying. Also says speak things into existence as if they already have happened. So I wake up every day and I go, I am healed, I am great. I buy I start doing that little tapping, you know.

Athena Brownson 29:24

I do the same thing.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 29:28

Every day, every day, all I just I'm with you. I actually think that helps. I have felt better since I started doing that.

Athena Brownson 29:37

100%. If I don't wake up and and do my gratitudes and write out my affirmations, you know, I write out I am healed, I am healthy, I am vibrant and full of energy. Like I I've got this routine that helps really get my mind in the game and helps me not think about how bad I might feel. I, you know, I think when we have something more positive to focus on, that's where our energy goes instead of sitting sitting in the misery and and thinking about how awful you might feel. But I I completely agree with you. You know, what we speak into existence is what existence is. So we have to be careful.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 30:18

So I just start doing that reason. I'm like, yeah, what's that little thing? It's on TikTok. Um oh, it's like a little tapping thing. Everything looks down.

Athena Brownson 30:28

Is it oh yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 30:31

I can't I can't think of it right now, but all the time I'm just like you know, all the time. Like, what are you doing? I'm like, I'm telling myself I'm healed. And he's like, Yeah, you look like a nut, but you do what you need to do.

Athena Brownson 30:44

Like, hey, it works.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 30:46

I saw your affirmation was like people need to do that. And even like in people that are in the real estate business, you know, it's like if you want to be a successful agent or a successful investor, a successful broker, you have to put out those buys and you have to let people know that you're there and you're there to help them. And you know, and even though like I know you and I probably inside, you know, much worse than we look on the outside right now. People are saying, But you look so fine. And I'm like, it's frightened up when the person says, I know. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna start like smacking outside the head. It's like looking and feeling are two completely different things.

Athena Brownson 31:23

Yeah, you're like, if you only knew.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 31:25

You know, I do that a lot. I'm just like instead of him being like, Hey, how do you feel today? I'll just come and I'll say, Hey, listen, today's a good day, or I got hit by a bus while I was sleeping last night. And if I say that, he's like, Let me couch, let me get your blanket, let me get you food water, what movie do you want to watch?

Athena Brownson 31:45

I'm like, that's so sweet. He found a good one. That's well, I'm glad he figured it out because um that support system is everything for sure.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 31:58

Like, stop back in me.

Athena Brownson 32:00

Yeah. My my team and I are the same way. We have code words because I don't want to say, you know, like I'm feeling like I'm dying or something. So, you know, I'll I'll just kind of have code words about, or I'll say, Hey, I think I got steamrolled last night. And and then they know, okay, Athena's gonna be working from the couch today. And you know, if there are showings, then I'm gonna take over the showings for the day and um Athena will get stuff done on the couch.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 32:34

And that's just the reality. I always say, Oh, I feel like I get hit by a bus while I was asleep. But thing rolls back to you back because you just feel like right?

Athena Brownson 32:43

That's what I say. I say I think I got steamrolled last night.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 32:47

But that's good. I feel like I don't know. I feel like for me, after following as many people and pain doctors and all the things, I feel like having like some code words like that helps you. I feel like it helps me mentally because I can just say without I feel like death today because I don't want to speak better about my body. Just say, oh man, I don't know why I think I busted when I was asleep. And right away he jumps right in. What do you need? What do you need? What can I get you? Do you want fire? Do you want the windows open? Do you need what do you need?

Athena Brownson 33:15

And I'm just like, I need that's so special. Yeah.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 33:19

My thing. Yes. And then I just hope that the next day is better.

Athena Brownson 33:27

Yeah, it's all you can do, really. It's it's kind of moment one moment at a time. And I think one thing that, you know, chronic health issues remind you of is just how precious time is. Um, especially when, you know, we we've both worked in such busy occupations. You know, being in real estate is very tedious and cumbersome, and it's the best job ever, but you it will consume you. And we're so busy and busy and busy. And then it, you know, sometimes it takes something really big to remind you to to be present and to to be in the moment because you never know what moment is gonna be good and what moment is is gonna be really hard. So you have to celebrate the good ones.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 34:10

It's a lot. I should have you on another show and we just talk about that. I should done four or five podcasts, just talking to my audience and talking to them about the RA. And after I got the fibromyalgia diagnosis in January, but I really thought for like the first three months, I seriously thought I was like gonna die for real. Yeah, I was so crazy sick. It's like I don't even understand how your body can like feel that bad. Feel this bad and you're still alive, you know.

Athena Brownson 34:40

Yeah, I I've said that. I'm like, I don't know how it's possible to feel this bad in so many different ways and still be like upright and and a human that's alive. Like it doesn't it doesn't seem possible.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 34:56

They had so many, many, many, many, many views. Like so many more. I bet thousands and thousands. And I was like, you know, I guess maybe that's part of it is you know, is uh for me to share my story because anyone that was seeing me out or on stage or talking or podcasting, they would just assume should look fine. But honestly today, I've already taken two pain pills. Yeah, I took a half a sand ex like, oh, my joints are killing me today.

Athena Brownson 35:27

You and me both.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 35:29

Gotta keep going. I'll put on some makeup, that'll make me feel better.

Athena Brownson 35:32

I always say I'm putting on my war paint and getting ready for the day because when you don't feel good, it's like you don't want to get ready. You don't wanna, you know, but if you just put yourself together and and kind of put on that warp paint and convince yourself that you're gonna show up, then I mean there's something to it.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 35:50

It does. And I honestly believe that that helps too. So it's not I mean it's not I'm not I'm super sad that you have that. Like I hate that for you, but it's also nice to talk to somebody else that like really gets it.

Athena Brownson 36:02

Yeah, I insane. Um, and I think one of the biggest, most important things that we can do is to have a voice and to share our stories because it is chronic illness is so isolating and it it feels like no one can understand what you're going through. And it's true, like so few people could understand unless they've been through something similar. So I think being able to like have a platform to speak about saying, you know, like I am a successful woman and and I've done A, B, C, and D, and I am doing A, B, C, and D, but I'm also battling at war with my body at the moment. And this is what I'm experiencing on a day-to-day basis. And, you know, you're if you're going through something like that too, you're not alone. And here's something that worked for me that you might want to try. Or, you know, I love when I'm able to connect with other people that are experiencing, you know, unfortunate circumstances with their bodies.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 37:00

And you know I have uh one of my best friends has that, and that is Pub. And it does trigger a lot of other things. So I I totally I get you.

Athena Brownson 37:13

Yeah, you get it. You definitely get it.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 37:15

Nobody knows, nobody gets it more than me. Yeah, down there at that reunion. I'm like, hey, welcome everyone. Oh my god, why am I not in bed right now?

Athena Brownson 37:25

You're like, everything hurts.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 37:27

Why did I drive an hour and a half from the mountains from the comfort of my home to be totally, totally, you and me both. Oh, all right. So not to digress off that, but I I'll keep you in my prayers because I did yes, and it's funny the in the last couple of years. I've had these people I've talked to that somehow we got up on this kind of a subject. And it's like men too. It's like just so many people, and you're just like you just you can never tell. That's why, you know, of course, they call invisible disease, invisible illness, yeah. Because you cannot ever, ever, ever tell how someone's feeling.

Athena Brownson 38:03

Exactly. And and it it's a reminder, you never know what someone's battling because, like you said, like we look great from the outside. On the inside, our bodies are literally at complete war, and it's you know, more painful than anything you could ever describe to someone. So it's a good reminder to be patient with people because you never know what they're going through.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 38:25

I have one thing I will say is I noticed I have become a lot more patient with older people and like being in lines behind people, and people that are moving so slow that I'm just like, but then I'm like, hey, listen, they could be, you know, I was diagnosed with rental arms, right? They could have had it for the last 30 years, and their joints are like at the end of their life, and they're in so much. I'm like, Can I help you? And I'm always helping people just everywhere, airports, groceries, check-in, loading people's cars. They're probably like, I'm a crazy woman. But beautiful.

Athena Brownson 38:58

If you feel anything like I do, you yeah, and we all, you know, it's such a good reminder. Like, we need each other. We need, you know, we need to help others. And and I think doing that is so special. It like warmed my heart so much hearing you say that because it really does give you like a whole nother um understanding of empathy.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 39:20

Oh, yeah. And I tell people all the time, it's like, listen, I would not wish this on even my very worst, worst, worst enemy. And you more empathy because you know, you have the day before your diagnosis, and then you have the day after. The day before, you're like, Oh, I need to know what, what, what, what, what? And then when you find out, you're like, oh no. I didn't know what it really was, but I know some people have it. After I read that, I think

Empathy, Patience, And Helping Others

Dwan Bent-Twyford 39:49

I cried for like two weeks. It's like, yeah, see my new life. And then I find myself just being so much more patient with everybody else because I'm like, that could be me. Yeah, that's me right now, but uh inside, that could be me on the outside soon.

Athena Brownson 40:06

Totally. Like you said, like I always say I would never wish this on my worst enemy. But at the same time, I think the biggest challenges that we face in life are what form us into the person and the people that we're supposed to be. And they, you know, they grace us with the qualities of empathy and compassion and patience and and things that you might not, you know, really have otherwise. So like again, wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, but I wouldn't be the woman that I am today had I not gotten as sick as I did.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 41:17

Because that's what I look at too. It's like, well, if I didn't feel this bad, you know.

Athena Brownson 41:23

Yeah.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 41:24

What would I be doing?

Athena Brownson 41:26

That's a good question.

unknown 41:28

I don't know.

Athena Brownson 41:29

I mean, it sounds nice, don't get me wrong.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 41:33

Some uh some personal questions. What which I'll this was just really all personal too. So listen, seriously, thank you for sharing that with

[Ad] Laugh Love Law

Dwan Bent-Twyford 41:40

me.

Athena Brownson 41:40

No, thank you.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 41:41

I don't know how we got off on that, but um it's good to know because it gives me something else to pray for and not focus on myself so much. And same. We do mean we have lunch, we'll have a bunch of wine.

Athena Brownson 41:56

Perfect. Sounds great. I'm in.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 42:05

Okay, so what's your favorite band of all time?

Athena Brownson 42:09

Favorite band of all time. Honestly, you're gonna laugh, but it's called the Suicide Boys.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 42:15

I do not know who those are.

Athena Brownson 42:17

They're rappers.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 42:19

Oh, I do like rap. See, I should know. I I've you know I've listened

(Cont.) Empathy, Patience, And Helping Others

Dwan Bent-Twyford 42:23

to music since the beginning of time, and then my parents' music and my grandparents' music, and then my kids, and then my grandkids' music. So I usually only two or three times did not know the band and I don't know the suicide boys.

Athena Brownson 42:36

Well, you can look them up. They're definitely amazing rappers.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 42:39

Whenever someone gives me one I don't know, I'm like there you go. Oh, I mean, I even follow like BTF.

Athena Brownson 42:47

Like Yeah, I love it.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 42:50

Suicide voice, okay. I'm gonna have to look for that.

Athena Brownson 42:53

Yes.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 42:54

I will watch them because you know I've got four or five. I have grand five grandkids now under eleven.

Athena Brownson 43:01

Oh yeah.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 43:02

People like popular music, and they're surprised I know stuff. I'm like, honey, nine of the guys I've listened to are remakes. Plus, how cool am I?

Athena Brownson 43:11

You're like, I'm I'm cool. Come on.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 43:15

It's like, listen, Mimi listens to music all the time.

Athena Brownson 43:17

Oh, I love it.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 43:19

What's your favorite food?

Athena Brownson 43:21

Spaghetti. My joints don't love that, but I love Italian food.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 43:28

My joints do not like it either. I actually really for the first time took my diet like deadly serious in October on carnivore diet, and I cannot believe how much less pain I have in my body.

Favorites, “Grit,” And Closing Requests

Athena Brownson 43:41

It's remarkable. I also I I do that also.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 43:45

Yeah, so yeah, for a few months, and then like you know, you don't want to stay on it forever because you're just eating meat, and then I'll go exactly in house.

Athena Brownson 43:55

Exactly.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 43:57

Okay, gotta get back on that. But it does help. Um do you have a favorite book?

Athena Brownson 44:05

You know, favorite book. I'm gonna go with the favorite book right now that I'm reading is Atomic Habits. I'm obsessed with figuring out hacking routines and and creating new habits in my life. And that book has been monumental for me for sure.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 44:22

Atomic Habit.

Athena Brownson 44:25

It's by James Cleary. Yeah, it's really good.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 44:29

Sounds like a good book. I know so many people say the Bible. No, besides the Bible, everyone says the Bible. You gotta give me like a little like any kind of book. Doesn't even matter if it's like whatever you read, dystopian, whatever.

Athena Brownson 44:42

Just any trash, it's fine.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 44:46

Exactly. So I want you to give me um a word of wisdom. So we're gonna part with a word of wisdom, but just a single word.

Athena Brownson 44:56

Okay. You know, from our conversation, I have to say grit.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 45:03

Okay, so what I do is um at the end of every show, because you know we come out once a month, is I always have our guests leave us with a word of wisdom, and then I ask the people that listen regularly to put it on a little sticky and put it on your window when you're brushing your teeth, you're doing your hair, read the word, and like so the word of the week is gonna be grit. So um help what grit means to you.

Athena Brownson 45:29

You know, grit is the art of showing up to me. You know, life it always throws challenges our way, you know, whether they're big or small. And it's so easy to become a victim to to challenge. And to me, grit is the art of showing up despite whatever challenges you're facing. It's you know, showing up as your best self, aiming to be one percent better every every single day. And and You know, fighting through the difficult times just as much as as the good times. Like you you have to have grit to get through life.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 46:05

You do. You know what? I really love that meaning for the word. I used to always tell people, like, leave us with a word of wisdom. And some people honestly would go on like a 20-minute rampage. Like, okay, listen, seriously, I'm just gonna make it like a word, but I'm gonna tell people ahead of time because then as we're talking, you're thinking about your word, and you'll actually change your word three or four times in the conversation.

Athena Brownson 46:26

Yeah, I love that.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 46:28

Give me a word, and I always like to know what it means to you because different words mean everything to everybody. Grit means different things to different people, but I do very much um uh agree with what it means to you, it's like just showing up because I mean I sit here sometimes and do these podcasts or teach, and I am literally gritting my teeth, and I'm just like, I'm showing up, I gotta show up for my grandkids, I got all these little kids that live, you know, a half a mile away, a block, like two blocks away from me, and they ride their dirt bikes over every day, they want to go out, they want to do this and that.

Athena Brownson 47:01

I'm just like they were like, I don't want to do anything, little and I better do it anyway.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 47:08

And I just like I suck up so many things. If people how much stuff I sucked up, they would not believe, just like you, I know for you too superheroing up so many things. If people knew how much we sucked up just to show up for other people, they would never believe that we can live like that.

Athena Brownson 47:26

Never, never in a million years. It it is that is so beautifully said, and thank you for that, honestly.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 47:33

Yeah, I've just really started this last well, just in since January, like really just saying, like, listen to people, like, hey, I'm gonna make plans with you, but I don't know if I'm gonna go.

unknown 47:45

I love that.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 47:47

I'm gonna make it, but I just started being honest instead of canceling all the time. Yeah, I'm gonna flare up, I'm not going. I'm not gonna push myself to satisfy everybody else because that may be a couple days after I'm not doing it anymore. So sometimes I'm just like, no, and I tell people ahead of time, like, listen, I'll plan, we'll make dinner, make reservations, whatever you want to do. But you got 50-50 that'll actually be there.

Athena Brownson 48:12

And that's showing up for yourself authentically, you know.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 48:16

And that's exactly we don't show up for ourselves because we want everyone else to be happy. And so we suffer ourselves.

Athena Brownson 48:29

Yeah, and we have to show up for ourselves and and take care of ourselves because without that we have nothing.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 48:36

It's hard to put yourself first.

Athena Brownson 48:38

It is, it's very difficult. It is, it's really hard, especially in this industry, too. Yeah, you're like, don't get me started.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 48:49

I know, I know, I could talk all day about that. Okay, so one more time, tell everyone how to find you.

Athena Brownson 48:54

Yeah, so you can find my Instagram. It's got my website, phone number, email, everything on there, and it's Athena Brownson Realtor.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 49:04

That's it. That's a really easy one.

Athena Brownson 49:06

Yeah. You know, first name, last name, realtor.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 49:11

That's as easy as it comes. Well, listen, I have really super enjoyed having you on. I hope you don't mind that we got sidetracked on our I loved it.

Athena Brownson 49:19

No, thank you so much. I love you so much more now. I know. It's like bonding, and I can't wait to spend more time with you. And I, you know, I think that these conversations happen for a reason. So I'm very grateful for that.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 49:32

I'm happy I had you on the show today. All right, everyone. If you uh are new to Dawanderful and you like the show today, anything resonated with you, you love her, you love me, you love both of us, you like talking about chronic illnesses or real estate or money or anything, just leave us a five-star review, subscribe to the podcast, and please share this with at least one friend. Because people like me that do podcasts, we can't grow without you. And I'll give you some good news this week. I was looking at my podcast stats uh yesterday or the day before. I was number one in Canada under entrepreneurship, and I was like, Yay, congratulations! America, and I have had a lot of really uh really good top 10 numbers like worldwide, Norway, all over the place. I'm just like that's incredible to me and the rest of the world.

Athena Brownson 50:28

Oh, I love it. Congratulations.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 50:31

So, this could be the episode that puts the edge. I love it. So you gotta like, gotta subscribe, you gotta watch my YouTube. Just you know, I'm here to help you guys be successful. She's here to help you be successful. Anyone in Denver that needs an agent, right there you go.

unknown 50:49

I'm here. I would love to help.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 50:52

Right there. So we'll be back next week. Same bat time, same bat channel. And remember that the truth is in the red letter. All right, everyone, talk to you next week. Ciao. Thank you.

Athena Brownson 51:07

Oh, that was so fun.

Dwan Bent-Twyford 51:09

That was so funny to go fun.