Episode 30: Carlos Santana part 3

Carlos Santana’s musical adventures include finding a love of jazz, his relationship with Miles Davis and touring Europe during the 70s. Find out more in this episode of Jay’s Rock and Roll Stories. 

Contact the show: jaysrockandrollstories@gmail.com 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:11

Something a little different today. Hello, hello, rock and roll. Welcome back to Jay's Rock and Roll Stories. I'm your host, Jay. I told you before that I was gonna get off Santana for a little bit, but I think what I want to do is because I there's so much to go for, so what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna give you this last one, and then and then we're gonna take a break and do something else, and then we're gonna come back because uh listen, tell you the truth. I I, well, my wife and I, we're going together. Carlos Santana is coming to concert here in San Diego in August. I'm freaking stoked. So, we're gonna do this episode about Santana. Take a break, and then later, after August, I'm gonna do a little like, how was my concert episode? Like that kind of thing, man. Hell yeah, right? Why not? Alright, so let's just go back, right? So we're talking about how Santana played at Woodstock. That was the top of the mountain. You can't get higher than that, right? Coming from such humble beginnings, he fuck, he's he's there, he's playing at fucking Woodstock. So after Woodstock, he talks about Altamont. We did that episode before. And Altamont, he he agrees it was just a complete shit show. So dark, so scary, so awful. Uh nothing but Hell's Angels and Violence. Like, really, he doesn't he doesn't go into it in the book. But um I think that I think that's the type of guy, like he he he talks about in this book how when he um meets other uh musicians, maybe he doesn't get along with them, or he had a run-in with something. He doesn't remember those things, he only remembers the good times. So he he really doesn't talk about negative shit. He d I mean well for the most part, really. So um 1969, everything is like happening like incredibly fast, you know, according to Carlos. Everything's just happening like, and that's what Bill Graham told him. He's like, you guys are gonna become famous, and you're you're you're not even gonna realize what the fuck's happening here. So they this is 1969, after Woodstock, they go back to the Fillmore East in New York, and guess what? They're the main attraction. Uh the the Paul Butterfield Blues Band and Humble Pie are opening for Santana. Holy shit, right? Um in December of 1969, Evil Ways, this the Willie Bobo cover, is um released, and it is a top 10 radio hit. Evil Ways. So that that gets them their uh their first kind of like royalty checks. They're they're making some money. Everyone, you know, buys a car or something, you know, they get to splurge a little bit. Carlos buys a red Excalibur Phaeton. Google this, Google image this red Excalibur Phaeton. P-H-A-E-T-O-N. There's a funny story. Doesn't really know how to drive. So uh he gets in the thing, he quote unquote drives away, he's going 20 miles per hour on the highway 101 and he gets pulled over. But the cops are like, holy shit, you're Santana! Like, he's he's already known. I mean, think about it. If you're opening for like humble pie, you have a little bit of fame. So the cops are just like, holy shit, man, what's up, man? So um, instead of giving him a ticket, they give him a ride home and they promise to give him driving lessons. They're like, fuck, you don't know how to drive, do you? So they give him driving lessons over the weekend, he finally learns how to drive. The cops get helping him out. Um, he doesn't really like the sound of their first album in 1969, but he does love the sound of their second album, uh, Abraxis, 1970. And he talks about uh the tone, and uh there's a question he formed. Um you know, he's really give me a second. I have this music on in the background. It's Santana, I'm gonna turn it off. There, now you can't take my episode off because like the royalties, right? Anyway, so um so he he's talking about sound. This guy is he this is a player, he he's not just gonna plug in and play. He's he's he's he's an artist, right? He talks about the sound that he wants to capture. He's saying, what's the sound of a soul praying? Or what's the sound of a ghost crying? Like, Jesus Christ, that's that's Van Gogh right there. Um he talks about the album Abraxis, that uh it was also a good album for other people making royalties. Like, okay, on that album is their hit uh that got radio play Black Magic Woman. But that's not Carlos Santana didn't write that song. That's that was written by Peter Green from Flea Good Max. So Peter Green got a little check. And that other hit that you know on the radio, Oye Como va, that's not written by Carlos Santana. That was written by Tito Puente. So Tito Puente got a little little check in the mail, too. Everybody wins. Uh so there is a song that I like that he recorded around this time. It's called Samba Pa T. Three words. Samba Pa T. P-A-T-I. He tells a story about this song where he says that he was uh jet-lagged in New York and he can't sleep. He's like just walking around the room in the hotel, and he hears a bunch of noise out the window. What the hell is happening? Bottles rolling, a horn, like some sort of horn sounding. He looks out the window, and there's a drunken man trying to play the saxophone, like for change, for passers-by for change, and trying to drink a bottle at the same time, like a drunken guy with bottled wine and saxophone in one one hand on the other, going for it. And his mind and his brain says to him, He says that uh you could be lost just like that. So he wanted to he wanted to create a song that is just like just complete vulnerability, like where it's something is like almost like undressing you, you know. When the the reason why I'm repeating these words is like that, Jesus Christ, that sounds like this song. Listen to the song. Carlos just put Santana Samba Pati. That's it's amazing. He really did it. Like what he just said, he made that into a form of music. Um at this point, uh drummer, the drummer Michael Sheeve, um, he gets Carlos like really into jazz. He really gets him into uh Miles Davis and John Coltrane. Um also 1970 as uh Santana is doing a lot of tours through Europe. They're they're top, man. So he talks a lot about Miles Davis, he talks a lot about the relationship between he and Miles Davis and he and Bill Graham and Miles Davis and Bill Graham. And Miles Davis is kind of like a jokester, like um he'll just show up and like chat with him and stuff, and uh really into cocaine. Like Miles Davis, that that's his that's his thing, man. He liked coke. And uh Bill Graham loves Miles and he just he has a lot of respect for Miles Davis and Bill Graham and it's it's nice because um Miles Davis at that point was already going through uh a period of transition from complete bebop jazz to when he he made the album Bitches Brew, which is like jazz fusion. That's what critics call it, right? It's like electric guitar with just jazz, right? That Miles Davis is experimenting with sound, and uh it's it's it's fascinating because he talks about how Miles Davis would just kind of seek Carlos out, you know, go to his shows, just chat with him, and and and Carlos has a very high regard for him. Like, hey Miles, what's up, man? I'm just doing my thing. And uh at the end of this episode, Carlos has the same thing. He has a period of transition, and I I think there's a point where Miles Davis maybe saw that, maybe saw this guy is not just you know pigeonholed as the rock guitar guy. You know, it's just like what is he gonna do? Because when you hear Carlos Santana's guitar solos, it doesn't sound like rock and roll sometimes. It doesn't like you wouldn't put that record in, like if you go to a record shop, you have the rock area. You where does it go? It it goes does it go in jet? Where the fuck do I put this thing? Anyway, um so yeah, uh Miles Davis is involved with uh Carlos and Tana, they're friends, and uh kind of like a mentor, because my Miles Davis is uh he is an anomaly. I I would have to do an episode on that guy. Let's just move on here. Bill Graham is still in the picture. Um Carlos gives heroin a try. Yes, and in this in the book, he talks about how it felt great. He talks about how the first couple of times, holy shit, I can play like nothing. I could play so I feel so good, I can play so good. Yeah, like um, it's interesting because he he says he only did it a few times and it felt great, he could play, and he said this one time. This is what I really admire about Carlos Santana's because he he has such control about being, just being, he has control on it. So this is the story. He's in a bathroom, he has a buddy with him, tying him off, about to shoot him up, and the um medicine cabinet mirror just opens up out of nowhere. It opens and swings right into his face, and the mirror is right on his face, and he's looking into the mirror and he can see himself, and he's like, Jesus Christ, looks like a fucking like like wolf man. And he tells the guy, stop, stop, stop. And the guy's like, What? Stop. I said, stop, pull it off. Takes rub takes the rubber band off. I'm not I'm done. Like that made him stop. Like, I this is what I am? No, I'm done. And uh, yeah, he he gave it up just because like he he had that you know, step out of the box experience for a second to see what the fuck's going on. Um at this point in the band, everyone's kind of dabbling with heroin, everyone's kind of fucking around, and he confronts uh Michael Carabello and he says, like, listen, if we don't clean this shit up, I'm done. Like, I'm telling you, because you're one of the original guys with me, if we don't wrap this up, and and I I'm stepping out. So um Carabello says, Yeah, you're right. Um 1971 is an interesting year. There's uh a big tour uh that goes to Ghana, Africa. It's Carl, it's it's Santana, it's Ike and Tina Turner, it's um Wilson Pickett, it's Willie Bobo, it's the Staple Singers, it's Robert Roberta Flack. Uh there's also some other musicians. And I think there's a movie about this. I haven't seen it. I have to see. It's called Soul to Soul. 1971. Africa. Alright, so they're also doing a bunch of concerts in Europe. Um Carlos is not is very unsatisfied with this sort of like rock style lifestyle rock rock star lifestyle. He doesn't like it, you know. He's not digging it. Uh it's the drugs, it's the egos, and um he he's he's turning to a s some sort of like a spiritual like a spiritual cleansing. That's what that's what he's looking for, you know? So he finds that in the album, a Love Supreme by John Coltrane, and another band called the Mahavishnu Orchestra, and that's um that's the the guitarist John McLaughlin. Um that was his given name by like a yogi, Mahavishnu. So he's he's drifting sideways from the whole rock style. Like you saw Woodstock, you saw Altamont. I'm gonna go this, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna take this bridge. And he it's kind of funny. He jokes about how um, you know, because if you're a rock star, you're gonna have parties, lots of parties all the time, you know. And once when he gets sick of these stupid parties, he would put on, put the record on, A Love Supreme by John Coltrane, and uh surely it it it would clear the whole room out. Put that on. There's a homework, put that on. A Love Supreme by uh John Coltrane. He said it worked every time. He was like, I'm sick of these people in my house. Alright, here we go. Put the needle on. Alright, a Love Supreme, John Coltrane. Okay, 1971. Uh Jimi Hendrix dies, then Jim Morrison dies, then Jonas Japlin dies. Jonas Joplin, sorry, Jonas, Jonas Joplin dies. And it's like, it's kind of a scary thing because it's everyone's kind of freaked out. Like, what what the fuck just happened? That's the triad, that's the Trinity. What where do they go? Uh it freaks Carlos out, and he tells, like, he's he's done. He's like, I am never I'm done with cocaine, I'm done with heroin, and I'm trying to get that shit out of the band. He fires uh David Brown, the bass player. Uh David was really getting into heroin and just kind of nodding off during concerts and stuff, so he's out. Um it turns out that um David Brown cleaned himself up and he would actually come back into the band, so nice. Um Carlos also meets and becomes friends with Gabor Zabo, as we talked about before in the Chico Hamilton band. And they get together and make music together and they hang out. And he's actually he's kind of disappointed because he he he says that he never got to hear uh Gabor ever talk about his time with Chico Hamilton and the and the music that he made. And I I'm disappointed too, because I fucking love that shit. I love Gabor Zabo. I love hearing him, the Chico Hamilton band. I'm like, fuck, I wanted to know more about that. But I think he's I think he says how um Gabor Zabo was um wanting a different sound. That's not what he wanted. Which is interesting because uh the the Gabor Zabo albums are basically he covering like Beatles songs and mamas and papa songs, like doing it in a jazz style. It's very strange. Like, that's what you wanted to do. Alright, I mean it's cool and everything, but I mean the Chico Hamilton, I I think it's way fucking cooler, but oh you know, I I dig both. Alright. Anyway, so uh music music itself is very serious to Carlos. He does not fuck around, and he's really becoming a sort of like a like a band leader, you know. Um he writes how one time on a tour on a bus, there was a member that kind of like uh just kind of declared like like out loud to him in front of everybody, he says, you know, we really don't like it when you like tell us what to do and what not to do. Like, you know, stop bossing us around. He responded, he was like, Okay, then surprise me. Don't bring me that same old shit that you learned, you know. Don't don't bring me something that you learned, like do something else. So he explains that um I don't know, he he he's serious, man. It's it's his music. He explains that it's his job to say if someone is just passing the buck and going through the motions, but he will also say, That was some fucking good shit that you did last night, bro. Like, oh man, you were on, thank you. You know, so uh let's see here. And I think that I think that comes back to the universal tone. That that idea of like just just don't don't go through the motions, don't go like bring it out, and I think that goes back to the universal tone because it's just like uh feel it, do it. Don't hold on to the reins and do what you're supposed to do, feel it out, you know. And um I think that's something that you you maybe you can't be taught, and maybe you can't even learn it. Maybe maybe it's just something that you feel or you don't feel. So I think it's kind of like a win-something, lose something. You might have a guy in the band that there's no way he can do that. Well, you know, can't win them all. Santana 1972 releases the album uh Caravansarai. I have this album, it's really good. Another homework assignment. Uh YouTube full album Santana Caravansarai. It's interesting because it it's it's like it's almost like one track that just keeps going through. It just meanders through. It's it's cool, it's kind of getting jazzy. And this is what I'm talking about. This is where this a transition where he's not doing like the rock and roll. He he's making music, what he he wants to explore it. So he's unsure uh where it's going. He's very conflicted. Uh they're in the studio for five months, they only did a few shows. Uh the guys in the band are not David Brown and Stan Carbello, but uh, those guys are gone. Uh they are uh Greg Rolly and Neil. Um those but those two guys after that album would go on and create the band Journey. Yes, that that band, Journey, Journey. So um, yeah, Greg and Neil would uh they agreed to do the Caravanserai. It's a cool album, check it out. I really like that album. It's it's very different. So, um what what does Caravanseray even mean? So this is where Carlos is getting more into his his uh Eastern philosophy, Eastern religion, like you know, explorations here. He explains that um Carlos explains that they would drive around San Francisco and listening to the tapes, like trying to figure out what's what's the sequence of Karavansurai, how how should we play it out? They had a he had a few tapes uh should we do it this way, should we do it that way? And he explains that he found the word Karavansarai when he was reading a book written by a yogi, the the it the eternal wisdom of a yogi. The caravan, okay, this is from the book. The caravan is the eternal cycle of reincarnation. Every soul going into and out of life from death to life and back again until you arrive at a place. Where you can achieve your inner peace. That place is the Keravan Sarai. So how you live now determines how you will live again. If you can't get there, the reincarnation is in your hands. You keep going. You have to make you can't make that same mistake twice. You gotta you gotta keep passing on. So uh he is actually pretty content. He's happy that he's become acquainted with Eastern philosophy, and the quote he puts on the record is the body melts into the universe. The universe melts into the soundless voice. The sound melts into the all shining light, and the light enters the bosom of the infinite joy. I don't know about you, but I I can dig it. It's it's uh I don't know. Could you sum that up by saying do the right thing? Could you? I don't know. I I think it's uh I think it's an incredibly long bridge that he crossed, you know, playing from his humble beginnings, La Cucaracha and Tiguana, all the way over here, you know. And uh so on the release of uh Caravan Sarai, the album, Clive Davis, who is head of the uh record label, is asking Carlos, like, why? Like, why are you doing this? Because he's looking for a hit. You know, he's looking for, you know, like, you know, like come on, we gotta put something on the damn radio. And that album, like, no, no, no. It's it's one piece, man. It's one piece. And um, yeah, why why are you doing this? And Carlos says, why not? I mean, he says, why what? Why are you doing this album? There there's no song on it. It's it's just one piece. There's already a John Caltrain. There's already uh you know weather report that the jazz band, why can't why can't there just be Santana? So let's end it here. Why can't there just be Santana? Well, I don't know. Because he's exploring. And uh with the universal tone, it's it's it's not about creating a song to put on the radio. It's uh searching into your soul and bringing something out, you know? And um I think we're gonna take a break with Carlos Antana. I think I'm just gonna take a little break and we'll let it we'll let it transition to this spot where it's where does it go? I don't know. It'll go to the next episode, right? I'm gonna do something else. Next episode I'm gonna do something completely different. So if you don't mind, um put on like you you know the songs, you know, you know, Black Magic Woman, you know, you know Oye Komova. Put on this album. Uh Santana Caravansarai. It's Caravan C-A-R-A-A C A R A V I N S E R A I. Put that on. Listen to that. Because it it sounds like he has an idea and he wants to take it somewhere that's away from what he was doing before. I think that's cool. That's that's an artist. That's what artists do, you know. Anyway, um thank you so much for hanging out with me. Uh thanks for coming back. And I want to tell you to send me an email at the J's Rock and Roll Stories at Proton. I will see you next time. I hope you have a good evening, good morning, good afternoon, where what whatever you are on that time of day. And love you. See you.