The Untold Business Story Behind Sneaker Design Icon Aaron Cooper | EP 28

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AARON COOPER
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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Nike was among the best, maybe uh uh you know, s out of bias, but uh I believe they were the best in terms of understanding what people wanted before they even knew themselves. Right. It's like the famous quote about uh Henry Ford. If yeah, if he were to ask everybody back in the day, hey, what do you want? I'll make you whatever you need. Right. It would be like, I just need a faster horse. AI is never gonna replace, well, never so never, but I don't think in my lifetime it'll replace soul. Like, there's something magical about being human, and that's your job as a designer is to figure that out.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

This is our now second time on here. We got AC, we got Koo. We already heard the backstory. If you guys haven't heard already, make sure you guys go watch the old episode from the backstory to where you got today, right? But now, from the last episode to now, there's been a lot of change for both of us in life, right?

SPEAKER_00 0:59

I'm still waiting for you to have a kid.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

The big change. We're still making progress here. So, um, the brand has been popping off. We've been working on that. We've been seeing your name and face on that a lot lately, and you're working on some other projects that are mayor or may not be able to talk about. We can talk about whatever you want.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

You gotta ask me the question, okay. You're the pro.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Okay, okay. Tell me about where things have gone, what EQLZ from the beginning to now, and um how it's been, I guess, working with you know with a quote unquote smaller brand and the business side. I think I want to dive more into just the business at a smaller level, I guess, technically to the bigger, you know, those large corporations, because there's a lot that can get lost in the weeds in that big corporation side and the things that you gotta pay attention to.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Well, I mean, I would love to dig into that and help educate people because it gets tiring. Uh people talking trash about Nike or other companies, and then and you know, thinking it's should be easier, is easy to, you know, start a footwear company. Um, but it's one, it's a huge capital expense. Uh just to get product into a warehouse, you have to have hundreds of thousands of dollars.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Then you have to pay for the shoes. Like that's that's just to get it to get a shoe off the factory line. Okay. Then to get all those pairs, you have to pay for them up front. So you gotta fill the warehouse, and then that's nobody knows who you are. Right. So now you gotta market, spend all the money marketing. So it's it's not easy. And so EKLZ is they brought me on you know years ago to help them. They realized if they wanted to be a true basketball brand, they had to get it, you know, on the on the court and be, you know, playing at the highest level from a performance standpoint. And um, there's not that many people that can do that. You know, there's a lot of I call them fire emoji Instagrammers, like you know, especially with AI today, like you can put a lot of stuff on Instagram and get comments and talk and all that, but to take that into a three-dimensional shoe that somebody can wear is another thing. Then to take that into the highest level of performance uh is a whole nother another level. And then to be comparable with the great, and that's what E. Kyolzi wanted to do. So we want to do it, we needed to impress uh professional players that we know we're doing. Um and uh you know, the 247 started that conversation and it's just scratching the surface. That's why I was suggesting to them to keep that conversation going, because you know, to to then come back and redo an entire new shoe uh that plays at this level is not easy. And there's not that many people that know about the shoe, so just getting more and more people to know about it, doing a low top version of it, um, yeah, which is the latest.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

And then also, you know all the uppers are like this on the low top.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Yeah. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. And then uh, and then how do you bring familiarity? You know, that if you're a Nike or somebody else and it has, or you have a ton of money to spend on marketing to convince people that you belong uh on the court, um, you know, you can try to do that. But one of the reasons why we did, you know, this colorway um is to help bring some nostalgia and help create a conversation. And that's what it did. You know, we did the sneaker news thing, and you can read through all the comments. There's definitely a love hate. Um, you know, people talking trash, and then other people talking about, oh, it's such a good idea. Some people, you know, not realize realizing that I designed the Pippin 2, which part of this was inspiration. Other people talking about, you know, get ready, Nike's gonna come sue you. Like, well, you can't sue in for inspiration. Like, like I said, I designed some of it, like I know what the design patents are, um, in terms of just aesthetics and patents. Yeah, I mean, it's just it's just uh aesthetic. Very good. Uh see you're the pro. But uh, but yeah, I mean it's just and uh Nike would be crazy. Like we're we're I'm the I the the name of it's the source code. I do believe like this is the Jordan 11 is a source code, like that is one of the beginnings of where like why we're sitting here. If the Jordan 11 didn't exist, would we be sitting here? Right.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

Man, I was watching my mom and my dad's pairs scrubbing the midsoles, that white phylon, cleaning them up for them. I remember when I was finally able to wear my mom's size, and I was in middle school and like rocking them, the OGs back in the day. Like, yeah, it was dope. Yeah, the 11 is an amazing shoe for sure. I remember rocking the Concords and the braids and all that stuff back when it originally came out.

SPEAKER_00 5:50

Seriously, like, and by the way, I mean you know the story of that. Like people were hate, oh yeah, people were hating it. Yeah, I mean, I had the the prototype and we're taking it around and showing kids, like we had a you know, all the latest, it's 94, um, and just getting people's feedback, and I mean they were just killing that shoe.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

Okay, so tell me about that real quick, actually, because I guess we could dive into a little bit more. Because I had Gentry on the pot. If you guys haven't watched or listened to that episode as well, he told me about that and he was saying the same thing, like, yeah, it was getting highly rejected, it felt like it wasn't gonna come out. He had to make sure it was still pushed through, and he and others, yeah, part of his crew, right? But you were also a part of this?

SPEAKER_00 6:30

I mean, I just happened to be. I mean, I was in Nike basketball, you know, sitting there tinker, and you know, I was around when it was being created. There weren't that many people, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:38

So, um So what did what were your first impressions when you saw the Jordan 11 back in whatever that was, 94, 95?

SPEAKER_00 6:44

I thought it was trash. No kidding. Uh that's like the number one used term on Instagram. I'm sorry. Right. Fire trash. Trash. Yep. Like, do people realize like people put their lively, like their passion, their sweat, their tears all into that? All for some reason just going, trash.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Come on, man.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

No, the funny part is like or at least come back, like spend the time, have the respect of like, hey, that's trash, but this is a lot, yeah. I think because of this shoe we're going to show, and blah blah blah. And like, oh like then you might get somewhere, but just trash trash.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

I think also, yeah, people just like driving down the street, trash. You know what I'm saying? Like, but uh, like have some respect. I tell everybody all the time, not every shoe is for everybody. And what's turned around in this sneaker culture now is that people assume that everything is for everybody and we're supposed to get all the shoes and all the drops and da-da-da-da. And it's like, it's not all meant for every single person, it's not for every consumer. It's not a universal thing. Like, yes, we all love sneakers, but we don't have to all have the same buy all the same and get every drop and have all the, you know what I'm saying? There's a white and kennedy uh campaign.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

I specify as white and kennedy because back in the day uh their their relationship with Nike was among the best still today. Uh and they did a love-hate campaign. Do you remember that? When was it? I don't know, probably when you were in grade school or something. I don't know. But that was the whole point. Uh, and the creator behind it, John Jay, I believe it was John Jay, uh, one of the best in the history of advertising. Um that is the idea. Like you you need to create a love hate, you need to create the conversation. For sure. Right? And I think that's what you know, if you know, this one on sneaker news kind of helped do that. There's people have opinions, and you gotta, you know, you have to create an emotional connection with people first. That's like team and get anybody to care of like yo, where'd you get those? Yo, what are those? Uh, and then to have a conversation about what are they, why are they, what do they remind you of? What do they like? Which they create that. You well the consumer creates that as well. Well, no, the the the brand creates that, like the designer create the the creation team has to create that love-hate, that conversation. That's what I call these are just conversation pieces. So if I if I go somewhere where there's a bunch of sneakerheads or basketball people, whoever, you just put this on the table and conversation's gonna break out.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

Okay, so you put this on the table. What are the most commonly said things on both sides for loving and hating the low top?

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Uh a lot of people thought like smart move. Um, I think people, some people appreciated this, uh, certainly the people that played in it. Um, but in terms of like everyday wear and transcending off the court, more difficult. Uh the white black one though, I have a friend, his his wife works for Oscar de Laurenta, and she's and he's a huge sneakerhead. And she told him he's never allowed to wear sneakers like outside of the house until he got that the phantom from me. I gave it to him. And uh she said that was the first he said that was the first shoe that uh she liked the look of it? Yeah. What's she gonna mean? Uh not like dress shoes, but just you know like loafers and stuff? Yeah, like nice, you know, yeah. What the uh but like high-end, like nice, you know. But uh makes sense. But yeah, so so the idea of going to a low top easier, like that helps transcend off the court, um, more into you know, everyday, like I said, everyday use. But it's still a performance product. Uh and then this specific colorway, you know, with the in the story behind it and the source code and the and the Jordan 11, and and then I did share uh for the first time about you know, other people have talked about it, but um the uh the Pippin 2 inspiration, people call out the uh Kobe, and I don't even remember the number for the Kobe, but you know, this has some inspiration that but it for me it's it was less that and it was more around you know the human foot. The the the number one inspiration, um which I've never told anybody, uh can you guess like like generally speaking, in terms of like where I my head was at and what I was trying to do, you know, this colorway was you know, patent leather, Jordan 11, uh, but in terms of like the design, the the form and function of the shoe, can you guess where that uh inspiration came from?

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Was it an animal?

SPEAKER_00 11:33

Uh close. I mean, it's definitely um yeah, definitely connected to nature. Okay. I gave myself uh I gave myself a what if. I like what-ifs. Okay. So the what if on this one was what if the game of basketball was created just after fire. After fire. Damn.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

Okay, so where's the fire align with this?

SPEAKER_00 12:02

No, no, I'm saying we had like thousands, millions of years of like cavemen. Yeah. So just invented man just invented fire. He makes this and then took a rock and chucked it through some something and like, you know, okay, made it a game. Okay. So if basketball started that long ago, what would our feet look like? It wouldn't look like pretty wide. Wide, yeah, we'd have like our calves would probably be a little bit more. That kind of like gives that look on the outside. Well, it would have so this was all like, you know, your the the fat pad on your foot would look a lot different, the traction on your foot would look a lot different, uh, or the traction of the skin on the bottom of your feet. So that's what this is all kind of. So it looks like if if you get it in the right light, too, yeah, um, you can kind of start seeing like it's like the foot within it, kind of swells out. Uh, and so that was the the general, and if you if you see the original colorway, the um the black-white one, uh, you can really see that come through.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

So the design process and coming up with inspiration, I think can be used for a lot of different ways when it comes to creativity, creating content, um, remodeling homes, whatever, right? Like, there's a lot of ways that people can pull inspiration from stuff and tie it into like their design world. So, what do you say is like I guess your like checklist or whatever of things that you try to think of, or your kind of go-to process of being creative from scratch from zero? Like, you just start a new project, and you're like, okay, well, these are my essentials that I always think about.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Yeah, always start with the people you're trying to serve. So, who's the population you're trying to create for? What are they going to be doing in that product? And then how does their how does their human nature already perform in that space during that time, whatever that may be? So I always strip it down, pun intended, I guess, uh, down to like literally the naked body. Okay. So, but once you put something on your body, you you've now altered, at least subconsciously, but you've now altered your your human performance. So if you're looking to play the game of basketball, we weren't naturally born to do that. So, what augmentation do you need to play the game at the highest level? Okay. Well, once you put that on your foot, now you've tweaked some things. And you know, if you just needed traction and you glued a piece of you know rubber on the bottom of your foot, right? Well, now you've complicated things. You've done like you've made, like you need to give support for um for the rest of your foot, but still allowing for your foot to do the natural things it needs to do. So every time you add a uh piece of augmentation that you weren't naturally born with, you've added a comp you've created a complication. So then how do you solve that complication without creating more?

SPEAKER_01 14:59

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SPEAKER_00 15:25

So it's just this kind of constant like I'm always trying to create for the population to perform with their natural self with the augmentation that they need, and then get out of the way. But for the most part, and we could you could pick any one of these shoes, uh any of that augmentation creates a bigger problem than you were trying to solve in the first place.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

So now you got, you know, the shoes are are have created a problem. That's why people think that um you need high a high top. Like this, people call this the uh like this. Literally, I had a hard time designing a loaf because this is literally low, this is this plays lower than this does. This is this is uh more minimal than this around the ankle, especially like a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

Like you can see how much more slim it is around everything about it.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

There's less to this shoe than there is to this. Okay, so that was my I wanted to create a second skin. I wanted to create something that that was a natural extension of your human self. Um, and so that that's you know always my desire. Um and then trying to create a low top of this, so now that you have this shoe on your foot, how is that changing how you play? The feel, the feel, everything, everything.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

It's so wild how like it's the quote unquote same shoe and high and low, but like it can be a completely different feel, completely different performance. Like 100%. Just like the same thing with like cleats and everything like that. When I was playing in football, I'm like, you have the two different versions, and I'm like, man, it's so wild, just like the slight switch up and the whole feel of the game.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

Yeah, absolutely. So that's what I was gonna say about like people think like high tops, you need a hire when I worked with Serena, so I worked with Serena Williams for seven years, uh, and she when I first started working with her, she thought she needed more shoe. I convinced her she actually needed less shoe. Right. Become one with the shoe. Right. 100%. Yeah. Uh because your shoe, especially when you get tired, uh, and if there's more stuff on the shoe that you're not cued into, which nobody is, because you haven't been wearing them for your whole life, uh, or even more than because I think genetically we're we're cued into just being naked. Uh so anything you put on your foot is now a foreign object that you have to understand how it's being perceived within that space that you're performing in. So if there's anything external that's sticking out, outriggers, whatever, all these things that we think we need, um, we only need those things because we've created such a blocky, uh, non-conforming, you know, uh material around your natural self that if that you need that for the support support and the stability. But if you can create the shoe in a different way, more naturally, then you can get rid of some of those things.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

So the barefoot, like the barefoot world and then like the rest of the world, right? It's two different spaces, like ultra narrow shoe and barefoot style, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:44

Do not well that's yeah, exactly. Like that's a good example of like which which has more stability, you know, this or that. Right. But if you do this inside of a inside of a shoe, then and your foot is moving around, then you're you can kind of like have this little bit of slop, especially when you're performing on a on a on a uh turf or something. Right. Uh so you want your foot to be um I I don't like the word locked in because now because you don't last thing you want to do is lock your feet up. Right. Because that's the beginning of everything else.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

You lock your feet up, and you gotta have that flex, because yeah, that's what people don't realize. Like, even like your hand, if you just move your hand, like there's so much, even in the small like tendons and bones and everything on the side of the foot that needs to be able to flex and hold, and that part locks you in, really, like that stability, yeah. And people don't realize that when it's all cramped in, you can't like move. It's like your hand is just stuck, like if it's if you got your finger straight like that, like you don't got no ability to really flex your hand down or move it. But if I loosen it up, I can now roll it and be more dynamic.

SPEAKER_00 19:49

So, as an example, and you had the other oh yeah, this one. So this was all about so for EKLZ, uh the beer at the very kind of the top umbrella is all about nature and that connection with uh the the human self. Uh and and then for the game of basketball, I was looking at it as um, you know, what's really changed in the last 30 years? Not a whole lot, honestly. Uh except for like the speed and athleticism of the game.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

More three-pointers. That's about it.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

Yeah. Uh so I wanted to create like this this higher level of speed across all the product uh and how people play and help them play at a higher level across the entire court um and across all five positions. So this was all about flow speed. Okay. So if you're a player that's just like constantly flowing and you kill like a like I think Steph Curry is more of a flow player than he is a than he has a point. Like that's why he kind of messes up. Yeah, he'd just be around and his clerics is moving. So this was this was a Mako shark. Yeah. So Mako shark sharks in general, uh you stop swimming and you and they die. Right. Um, and the Mako shark is the fastest creature in the ocean. So it's just a constant move and constant flow, and it kills its predators with uh with that speed in the water, and that's what this is all about. Then this shoe is all about uh about that shifting speed. So a cheetah.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

The 360 for those that are listening.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

The 360, yeah. So the cheetah, and so this is all about rotational um compliance with the shoe uh and with your foot, and so you're slashing, and you know, like uh I'm dating myself, but like a Paul Pierce, I'm sure you can come up with other people, but uh where it's like a cheetah, like you're you you're moving around the court, but then you can slash and you can and you can uh shift and change your direction pretty quick. Uh and the shoe is allowing you to do that. I mean the shoe's completely broken down, like like it's segmented basically. Yeah. Right? So that the one that I'm working on now.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

So you guys don't have a low top or anything like this. This is essentially like a low. Like that is like little.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

I mean, this dude, seriously, this is there's nothing other than people saying, which I don't disagree with them, of like the sock, but I made this as as or we made this, um, you know, but I'm knowing what I know and how to design knit, uh, so that this would open up as much as possible. Like it's not difficult to get in. And it plays like it's like a natural extension of your of your foot.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

So this model in particular is no um evolution of the model. Essentially, it's just new colorways that can come onto this. This one gives you the opportunity to design like a high and low.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

Um, and this part.

SPEAKER_00 22:42

We're talking about you know what I'm saying? Yeah, and I'm trying to like help them figure out like, is there a way to uh design this so that we can redesign the up you know like the sock part of it with more of a traditional tongue and still keep everything else?

SPEAKER_01 22:56

Um remember the uh Nike basketball, like the Elite series or whatever it was called? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

That's actually yeah, that's a good analogy.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

Um I was just wondering about that.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

So that you'd uh uh one of the shoes that I worked on, um, well, there's one the Flight 1.0, and then also uh the Fly by You, which is a horrible name, but um But that that had the Fly By You is actually the first one that had fingers. I also did Cheryl Swoops's uh fourth shoe, and I had the same concept. Like I it's an amazing concept, I think, uh, and and it still hasn't been fully realized, I don't believe, in this idea of segmenting the shoe, um, giving you the support uh that you need. Um and when I said support, I'm talking about supporting your game. Right. Like supporting your foot and how you play, um how you personally play, but then also how you play the game of basketball. Uh so that so that's this is flow speed, this is shifting speed, and then the one that I'm working on now with them is uh around first step speed.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

So it's a whole new model. A whole new model. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

So, and this is uh cheetah. The next one is gonna be on the peregrine falcon. Ooh. So they say uh that the peregrine falcon is so fast and such a killer. Now I don't know if you've seen uh like when they drop down? Yeah. It's crazy. And they'll show that they'll show the other bird just kind of like walking along and all of a sudden it just like explodes with a feather. Yeah. And then the peregrine comes back and gets after it. But uh yeah, it's the fastest predator in the air, and they they say, like experts will say, that the the prey that it's going after is already dead before it leaves its perch. Like it does not miss and it's that fast.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

The accuracy is crazy. So I'm that far out, too.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

For me, like a James Harden like kids don't understand, like he's out there doing his thing. He's not just dribbling for the sake of dribbling. Like, that's what a lot of kids do. They're just dribbling top, you know. My son play, I've watched kids play a lot. And a lot of kids will just be out there at the top dribbling for the sake of dribbling, but James Harden did he's like mentally getting into you and waiting for you to make a move so that he is calculating when he's gonna kill you. And he does it, he already knows that he's gonna break your ankle before he does it. Right. And then he drains the three often.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

Because there's like so many moves that can happen. And once you've mastered all the moves, but back to like understanding the defense and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 25:39

Right, but back to your point about so where does your body first move? Your foot. And if your foot's like this, it's stuck, it's stuck. And if you're if all the materials are super stiff, like how do you get up on your toe like that fast? Like it's really difficult. Right. So, how can you create a shoe where the moment you want to make that first move to leave the perch, how do you allow your foot to do its natural thing with uh a shoe that allows you to play basketball at the highest level? Nobody's ever done I I honestly the last shoe to do it, and I'm you know, I guess I'm being biased, but uh a lot of people talk about it, is the jet flight. The jet flight? So Steve Nash wore that for a long time, point guard, right? Do you know who else wore that shoe? Who? Dirk Nowitzki. He did. He's seven foot whatever, like how much force is he putting into footwear? A lot. His his step back, all that, like so. My belief is that if if he was able to wear that shoe and nobody has taken that shoe, that concept, and pushed it even further. Um, so that's my that's that's what I'm I've been super excited about recently because I'm literally in the middle of um well, the concept is well done. Like it's in my head and on paper and starting to do some 3D modeling around it. Um, but I have a couple partners. Um that's another thing. Back to the like the Instagram thing. Like, please, people, like again, have some respect. It's not just one designer that like sketched it up and you're calling it trash. Like you have it like if it if it's world class, there's a there's there's world-class people, there's a people, there's a team that put it together that uh you know they're putting their emotions into, right? And uh just imagine if you if if your job was put out on on Instagram, whatever you do for a living, like trash.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Okay, bummy out, right? But also, also, it's also safe to say that in these times there's certain stuff that has to hit the numbers and get the quota and all the other stuff on the corporate side that things do get pushed through that the team is like as a majority, this is trash, but we gotta get this out. Actually, I'm saying yes, yes, so there's also that, like it's because I've sat in those meetings and heard the stories and helped give input and those things. So there's the other sides of the where your hand is tied a little bit or whatever, and you're like, we gotta get this done because we got this bigger project that's technically more important to that, that's gonna sell us more units or whatever. So let's go ahead and get this out the way, or we need this to be done before the quarter's over, or whatever the scenario is, right? All those situations, we gotta get X amount of takedowns created before. So I think just like I tell everybody, if you want a retail store, you gotta sell the BS too, right? Like you want the hot drops, you want a tier zero account, you want to sell the exclusive J's and all the exclusive stuff, you gotta sell the stuff that's sitting on shelves too. You're not just gonna get a top tier zero account, you're gonna have to go through all the other stuff too.

SPEAKER_00 28:51

So that's funny you say that because that's also like at the end of the day, most people get excited about you know the flashy stuff, all the stuff that you collect, right?

SPEAKER_01 29:03

And that's not what does the numbers.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

Well, that's not what people buy. Like there's only so many people, there's only so many kids in high school that will risk rocking a pair of X, Y, or Z, walking down the hall hallway, and have the bravado and have the personality strong enough so that you know they don't make get made fun of or or they don't get called out or whatever. Um that's why the majority of shoes are you know triple white, triple black, pandas, like you know, very neutral. Very neutral.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

Makes sense. No, it's just yeah, it's interesting. Again, I never worked the corporate side, but I've heard enough and been in a lot of rooms to understand like the business side of it and everything, and it's just very interesting to see, like you said, trash this, that, the other. I'm like, okay, well, let's look at this project. You can tell when a brand is like putting their peacock feathers out and like showing, like, oh, this is our big shiny thing for the month, year, whatever, right? That's when we're like, okay, what you got? And then that's when we really start to dive into that when it's that special project, that big collab, the whatever. But yeah, when it's like those again, shoes that kind of slip through the cracks or whatever you want to call those, those are the ones where I'm like, why are you so hyper-critical on those? Those are just like everyday general releases. What are we talking about here?

SPEAKER_00 30:23

I mean, to be fair, like Steve Jobs, you know, creator of Apple. Uh, I know he did have a conversation with Mark Parker a long time ago, and he was critical of Nike, and because he was on the board, and he was saying, you know, Nike does a lot of really good stuff, like amazing, amazing product, like setting the standards across so many levels uh and across so many categories. And he said, But at the same time, you're also doing a lot of trash, and uh, and it's true, and and that's when back in the day they called it editing to amplify. So, and I totally agree with that. It's like, how do you how do you limit the the the product that just doesn't really resonate or doesn't really move the needle? Yeah, it's like why is this here? Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, how do you limit that um to be able to give more room to the things that will make more um yeah, more of a difference?

SPEAKER_01 31:21

And that's also the problem with the game right now, too, right? Like we need newness, but then at the same time, you see brands going what's working, so everybody's like, Oh, you guys are just living off the past and all this stuff. We're here with multiple brands, even with like the revitalization of Reebok or whatever, bringing stuff back or giving us a different iteration of something similar. Like, it's not even just you know, Jordans and Nikes, but then it's like it's working. So, how do you stop that? Like, as a content creator, like, oh, I know these things work.

SPEAKER_00 31:51

I can tell you, how do I get you know what I'm saying? I know very I mean, that's this is a rabbit hole we can dive deep into as as far down as you want to go, but it's all I break it down into there's the emotional quotient, the EQ, and the intelligent quotient, the IQ, right? Like those are two like things you can have those actually tested. Uh, and that goes for an individual and it goes for uh a brand or a company. Um, and to I believe where you need to make decisions and act upon, uh whether you're as a person or as a company, is your gut instinct. And that gut instinct is made up of those two things, the EQ and the IQ. Okay. And you have to educate, you have to fill both of those. You have to constantly be um learning uh in those two areas.

SPEAKER_01 32:43

How does one, I know somebody's listening to this right now and say, how do I learn in both of those areas?

SPEAKER_00 32:47

So IQ is all about that hardcore data. Like that's what, and that unfortunately is what a lot of companies are are uh going after for you. Like it's all of the the metrics that you can get off of meta or the metrics you get off Instagram or all those things, the the the data. Right, it's facts.

SPEAKER_01 33:03

Like you look at the numbers, it tells you X amount of people watching this from here, you watch X from here.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

X number of people buying this shoe, X number of people buying this colorway, blah, blah, blah. Well, you also have to go out and talk with the people. You have to, you know, you know your audience better than anybody else. You go out and talk with the people, and you get that information back. So the data might be telling you one thing, but the people are telling you something a little bit different, and you are the one that has to take all that information and mash it together and come up with what you believe is the right thing to do. And it might actually be completely opposite of what the data is telling you to do. If you read Shoe Dog, Phil Knight's book, there's a number of times in Nike's history where he went against the data, and he didn't have I mean that there he was going against like you know, literally like pieces of paper.

SPEAKER_01 33:55

I was about to say back then it was just like somebody wrote something down, like, hey, this is what we got.

SPEAKER_00 33:59

Or he was telling retailers were saying, hey, this is selling, so you need to do more of that, or whatever. And he was like, Yeah, that that might be true, but we need to do something else. Uh and Tinker would talk about it, you gotta zig when everyone else is zagging. I thought I was blown away when um who was it? It was like the fashion houses or the the the companies that would tell you what is coming, like what's the next, you know, oh like the fall collection or whatever. Yeah. Uh and Nike started, I was at Nike in '94, and when those things were starting to happen, they would you could buy the these books, and they were they weren't cheap. And in those books, uh would basically kind of tell you what's what's gonna happen, like what's gonna be on trend for next year. And I'm looking through these books, yeah. I mean they still exist, uh, like um you know, W Gisson or uh no, I'm forgetting the the uh acronym. Anyway, uh, but these trend houses, and you I was flipping through these books, and I'm like, there's Nike product in these books. Why are we paying them to tell us what we already know? You know, like or or what are we paying them to tell us what to look for, where to go? Uh Nike was among the best, maybe uh uh you know, out of bias, but uh I believe they were the best in terms of understanding what people wanted before they even knew themselves. Right. It's like the famous quote about uh Henry Ford. If you had if he were to ask everybody back in the day, hey, what do you want? I'll make you whatever you need. Right. It'd be like, I just need a faster horse. Right. You know, that was before the automobile was invented. He invented the automobile. Uh and nobody's asking, and nobody, you know, Steve Job, nobody said, I need a little computer in my pocket, you know, that I can make phone calls and do dollars. Like it was his, you know, his idea.

SPEAKER_01 35:50

Um that's the biggest, like everything you just explained right there, definitely probably created a lot more clarity for people to understand that. And I think people need to realize it's an art to put all those together to foresee and understand and be ahead of the curve, set the trends, all those things because even with all that information, the book smarts and everything, like you said, it's that gut feeling, and literally some people will never have it yet.

SPEAKER_00 36:27

So like most that's a that's actually a oxy, like or that's a whatever it is, uh so a lot of designers are are introverts.

SPEAKER_02 36:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:36

So for you to be an industrial designer, to be a good industrial designer, to be a good, that's another thing we can dive into. Design is form follow as function, it's not styling. So if you want to be a good footwear designer, go to industrial design school. Learn how to create product and how to connect emotionally with people and then make their life better. Form and function, equal parts. Uh, and so to understand how to understand what a population wants uh before they even realize it, you have to be empathetic with them. Like you have to find a like you have to like the idea of the pun isn't it in this case, but the idea of you know learning how like what's it like to walk in someone else's shoes, like that is literally what you need to do for that population. So if it's for you know the highest level of running or basketball or football, whatever it might be, like I'm not I'm not I can shoot the basketball, like I played, I played almost all the time growing up, almost every day, but I never competed, so I don't know. I had to go listen, I had to go sit down with pro players, college players, high school players, AEU players, like sit down and and learn from them.

SPEAKER_01 37:40

Yeah, it's a completely different feeling when you're playing the organized sport and the the intensity in the game and just the sacrifice of can't lose this for the season and all the other stuff. Like things change because of that and how you perform.

SPEAKER_00 37:53

I know how you decide to do and how you move and everything. Yeah, and same with like uh I don't know, I grew up skateboarding and I worked at the Marsalazar, and you know, you have to leave everything at the door, like you have to go out and learn like you've never, like you don't know anything. Um and uh and so to understand that population at an empathetic level and what they need, like that's that's where you're trying to get to. So if you're just creating another shoe that looks different, like it's you're just styling things, you're not right, you're just trying to making people's lives better.

SPEAKER_01 38:27

I get that, I feel that. So yeah, it's I've been so for me, we're talking about again, we've had a lot of growth and change um from the last time we did an episode to now, right? And for me, one thing that I've two things actually. The first thing that I started coming into last year, I don't know if this is on topic or not, either way, we're just talking. But the first thing I started coming into last year, last summer, coming into this year, especially, was like everybody kept, I just kept people coming, they're like, you gotta pop your shit. You gotta tell people who you is, you gotta let them know what you do. And I'm like, I'm always just like low-key, like I make it happen. Some people may or may not think it I'm flexing based off of whatever they're projecting on me and stuff. Great, that's cool with you, but for the most part, like y'all don't know much about me, y'all know what I let y'all know, all that stuff, right? But when I've been in certain rooms and certain stuff like that, I'm always like, oh, this is like us people know, and I don't need everybody else to know. Like, because me telling everybody else don't change my outcome for what I get, so I just need to make sure everybody in here know what's up. Because me showing off to these people, that don't matter, they're not gonna create me no opportunities or nothing. Yeah, so what's that gonna get for me? You know what I'm saying? So for me, I got in those rooms though, and I had to start like popping my shit in those rooms, like more aggressive with like, hey, this is what I do, I'm good at this, like I need more opportunities with this, whatever, instead of just being like so passive and everything. But then the other side, you could teach me that maybe the yeah, it's it changed a lot too, like with more opportunities that I've already been coming just over the past six months alone. And then the other part that I learned, especially over the past six months, was Hey, sorry to interrupt, just wanted to let you guys know we have a special deal going on with Apothecary now. So if you use the discount code DNA show, that's gonna get you guys a discount on all your orders from their website. Also, I'm gonna have everything linked down below underneath the video and in the pinned item section where you can purchase directly from this video as well. One thing that I love about the apothecary socks is they have the ISO weave material and it is so good, it has a great comfort, flex, and even good for me at a size 13. So, again, use the discount code DNA Show. And if you ever plan on rocking any socks, make sure you guys tag me on Instagram. Like you said, having the empathy and understanding the consumer and everything. For me, I have so much to provide to my audience. Like we were talking about at Brunch earlier, right? Like, I'm a four-sector person, so I can put you on game with shoes, social media, stocks, and real estate, right? So if I can do all those and I have multiple years of experience and have made people's incomes off of all four of those individually, not alone, not even talking about combining them all together, right? Like, if I have that ability and that expertise to do all that stuff and not just be one thing, I'm seen as a must-be nice person. So when the viewer looks at me, they say, Oh, it must be nice to have all that, da da da, right? And I'm like, I was 16 too, I didn't have nothing either. I had to figure it out too. Yes, because I'm fortunate to have my parents in my life and I love my father, and I get to bring him around, and again, that's a privilege that I feel like everybody should have, but it's unfortunate they don't. But at the same time, they be like, Oh, they did that, and I'm like, bruh, it's the tables be turned, like I'll be the one that's paying for stuff, I'll be the one that's doing these things. Don't get me wrong, like they do stuff too, they done help me out. But like, people just be thinking, like, I remember when I got my first Corvette when I was young, everybody was like, Oh, his dad bought him that. And I'm like, bro, I literally just gifted my dad the Corvette.

SPEAKER_02 42:09

Huh?

SPEAKER_01 42:09

Like, it's the opposite of what you think, right? So now that's in the partially like pop my shit area, but then also like I have to find a way to now because I'm trying to educate my audience, like you can do this, all these things too. So maybe but the way I talk to them, the language that's our gap. So the way I speak and my confidence and my belief in, like I said, growing a $10 million portfolio in real estate and doing these things and being able to uh scale stuff still, like some people may see it and it they can't take it in because they're listening to it as a must-be nice, right? And I've never worked a nine to five, I've never had a corporate job, I've never done all those things. So I can't come from your position and talk to you in your full lens because I've never experienced it all the way. So when I try to talk to people, some people take it, but the more majority won't, right? Because they're gonna see it as that must be nice, must be nice. So I have to change the way I speak and the way I deliver to be able to get the same message, and my same goal is to help people get to the next level. And I've literally helped over 400 students take their stuff to the next level. People buy homes, all these things. I've helped people over these years from having social media, and people don't even know that, right? I just have the course, and like I showed you my course and all my stuff. I'm like, bro, I literally have helped so many people, but that's that's where my tell those stories. So that's what I've been working on like this past month. I just started doing like the live QA's and stuff, but that's where I learned, like we were talking about the art of putting it all together. Like, if I have all these pieces, but I'm missing like what is going on, like I understand this whole game, I see where they're coming from, I get that. I got Start talking in their language and changing it a little bit to be able to make them understand. Like, I know where you're coming from. I may not have fully felt everything, but if I can explain to you how you're coming from and what you're doing, that clearly shows that I understand. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? And people say, like, I had somebody tell me, Well, you didn't get it out of the mud, like so much, so and so. And I'm like, bruh, I literally almost died in a car accident. I couldn't walk, I couldn't speak, I needed help brushing my teeth. I came from nothing. Like there was times where I lost it. I had top of the world, lost it all, had to figure it out, start over again. Like I had a struggle with a lot of things, but because I've done these other things, they say that don't count. It's not hard enough. You still had your parents in your life, whatever. Like, there's always something that they'll discount you for, right?

SPEAKER_00 44:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:46

So for me, I'm in that position of like those are the small group of people that I just like, okay, you say what you say, right? Yeah, I can't let because those would be the people that will hold me back from like helping the wider audience. Because I let those four, eight, ten comments or whatever not fully get to me, but be like, I got more to prove, I got more. When I'm like, no, let me just keep it simple, give you what you need, and then give it to the world and let y'all take it and do what you decide to do with it. So that's kind of like that thing that I've been learning over this past six months, especially. I've been seeing a lot of change like within the community, how I deliver, how I talk to people, and even just understanding them more and being more like inquisitive of the consumer and understanding where they're at in life. And I have a way better understanding now of like my viewer, what they are, and what they do. Empathy. So that's just kind of like my little tangent of no, it's good.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

I mean, that's that's what you have to do. I mean, you're designing like you're designing your show, you're designing your present, you're designing your brand, you're designing your channels and you know, all the different levels that you're at, and um, so to be able to do that better, to pursue a better self and a better experience for the people that you're trying to serve, like you have to get them, you have to get out of yourself and into them, like into their shoes. And that's what design, like that's that's where I think is missing, that's what I think is missing the most from uh at least from footwear anyway, is uh the lack of getting out. And and like I said, a lot of designers are introverts, and they the first thing they want to do is stay in. Um and I've just this like I'm not like I'm not uh extrovert and don't love getting on a camera or doing whatever, but you know, you've created a safe place, we've gotten to know each other, happy to do it. Um I'm better at this than I'm terrible at Instagram, I'm terrible at like talking in front of into into no into nothing. Yeah, I can't even um but I try to put myself in in places that I'm not comfortable to get out of my comfort zone if I believe that it can help other people. And I I I'm maybe a little bit different in that I'll share anything. Like I'll share, I tell a lot of people now my background, and my father was a preacher, my mom was a social activist. Uh and I didn't we didn't have money. My father was a preacher, like we had no money. Uh and my mom was also bipolar, so I grew up in a pretty gnarly house for a handful of years, and um so I you know, but yeah, I mean I also had a lot of things that were most people don't. Um but I try to understand where everyone's coming from uh and appreciate as much as I can where everyone's coming from and how they see things and their perspectives, and um and that's why like to get down to like I was gonna say uh about you know this this gathering that I've been trying to create, this community that uh I'm trying to create with some other people that have been amazing um collaborative and what's that? A few years now. Yeah, yeah, this will be your four. And uh because I've never seen anything like it, um, this community in the culture, uh in the conversations that happen. Like I I call s shoes, sneakers, uh uh conversation pieces. And and for me that's what creates the culture and then brings the commun community together. And like in in the spaces that that I've been a part of that we've brought people into, uh, if you were to take the shoes out of it again, like take that out of the context, I would bet you that most people couldn't tell you, like if you brought a stranger into that room, like, oh, why do why do you think all these people are together?

SPEAKER_01 48:37

Yeah, because they don't look alike, they don't like there's no you what do you find the commonality between you're like who is all these people here for?

SPEAKER_00 48:43

And I'm this year I'm trying to bring in more women, bring in younger people, so to really play that up as much as possible, because I think it exists. I know it exists, just not the not the percentages that I'm hoping to build it into, but um, but we'll get there. Uh and that to me is what is why I keep doing it. That's why I still design. Um, and that's my kind of what I'm feeling is a purpose, path, and legacy I want to leave behind of to help people understand that that shoes, sneakers break barriers, performance barriers like last Sunday breaking the two-hour marathon is insane. Um, it's crazy. Crazy. And the fact that nobody's really talking about it is even more crazy, which is kind of get gets a little bit to my point.

SPEAKER_01 49:30

Um that and the other dude that went and got first place at that the local marathon they had when he came back and ran and uh caught it was like the white dude who was like close to the line and the black dude came up and he called him to that. That was awesome.

SPEAKER_00 49:44

That was so good. Uh yeah, so so for me it's like sneakers break cultural barrier, they break performance barriers, cultural barriers, financial barriers, gender barriers, uh social barriers, you know, age barriers. Um I mean, what brands do you know that uh high school kids are excited about and their grandparents? Right. Like I it's not just in my house, I know this for a fact. Like, Nikeators are worn by grandparents, parents, and the grandkids. And the grandkids are the cool kids in the high school, and they love it when their grandparents show up rocking a good pair of kicks to the game. Like, yo, your your dad or your grandpa or whatever, your mom, grandma, like they're cool. Like, that is cool, like that's a thing. Like, so I just want to keep perpetuating that because I think it it it helps to build this culture and this community and um with something that's affordable, something that is obtainable. Look, if you want to, like I said, my father being a preacher, didn't have much money. I got one pair of shoes a year, and they weren't awesome. Uh, and if I wanted another pair or if I wanted a better pair, I just go more mow more lawns you know. We had newspaper routes back then, so I could just you know sign up a few more houses. Like he's cutting grass too.

SPEAKER_01 51:06

Cutting grass, yeah. Riding on my bike, I'll be riding my bicycle, holding the lawnmower, and I'd be riding that way I can get more distance farther and catch more houses and be able to get there faster. Perfect. So I'll just mop mob around with the uh lawnmower on the turn it into sneakers and then sneakers into houses, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:23

So yeah, that's why I keep uh keep doing that.

SPEAKER_01 51:28

Okay, so this is the one that you're welcome to or not to talk about if you don't want to, but the there's a lot of people that are watching and listening that are trying to put themselves in a better position financially to create more freedom, to be able to have time with their friends, with their family, um, less stress, to eventually get out of having to work their job, all this stuff, right? You went up the corporate ladder sense, right? There, you're done, you get stocks, you get all this stuff, you put yourself in a position to be able to either cover your life or have to work or whatever you want to do, be able to be in that position to take care of things. What uh would you say would be somebody something somebody should focus on? Whether it's focusing more on getting an SP or finding a financial advisor or trying to take on a new hobby that's really profitable and trying to turn that into something. What do you think is somebody that's like in that that 40-year-old range that's like you're like, bruh, you've been working hard, you're doing your thing, you still driving Uber on a part-time, you got kids, you don't got time to hang out with your family. But there's some advice I would give you to be able to compound your money or make something extra on the side, whether it's putting $100 away a month or whatever it is, just to get them kickstarted. Because I feel like a lot of people work hard, but they have their own ways of getting kickstarted, and there's other people that have good jobs and corporate jobs that don't position themselves to have the full retirement that they want, and they kind of restrict it a little bit or whatever, right? So I think it kind of plays in both lanes with that, but again, I've never experienced it. I just hear the stories and then you've experienced it. So, what are some positioning that you could do?

SPEAKER_00 53:27

Well, for the younger crowd, like uh if you're in a well a corporate or another job, like I always tell my I've told my kids and then other kids that I've mentored, like once you get into a job, if it has a 401k, like max that out. Like put as much put as much as you can, as much as they allow you, uh percentage-wise of your paycheck into that. Okay. Now start living. Okay. So instead of you know, driving maybe a little bit of a better car, living in a little bit of a better apartment or whatever, uh max out all you can in your 401k, then that's your paycheck. So once you get now you're used to living off of that.

SPEAKER_01 54:13

Right. And then if you create something on top of that, that can be your extra or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 54:17

Yeah, good. Perfect. Uh and then also trying to figure out where, like, what does that afford you? Like, you also tell people, you know, well, my my logo, uh, AC, Aaron Cooper, um, and the A is a square peg and the C is a round hole. My mom and my mom used to tell me that was a square peg and a round hole. I was gonna have a hard time fitting in. I've come to believe that we all are a square peg and a round hole. We're just trying to figure out where we best fit. You should always refine your shape, who you are as a person. Uh, but try to find out where you fit in. Try to find out, you know, figure out where you uh are, you know, who you're supposed to be, who you're born to be, and then find that place in life and uh and always continue to refine yourself and then be happy with that. Right? Don't that's I think that's a one of the worst things about social media. Oh dude. So you're constantly comparing yourself with others, whether it's people you don't even know, or maybe sometimes in worst cases, like people you do know, and you're comparing yourself to them in their life. And you know, someone that went to school for something else, because that's their shape. That's they found their where they fit in the world. Like find out word, like figure out what who you want to be, who you're born to be, um, and uh and then be happy with with uh what that's affording you. And like there's I think teachers is a good example. Uh you know, I my daughter's a teacher, and I, you know, they don't get paid enough. I mean, for the amount for the amount of what they do, and they're and that's something I don't think we'll ever change. I have an idea on how to change it, but oh, I'd love to hear it.

SPEAKER_01 55:57

Uh but just based off of what the world is like. I don't think I know soon.

SPEAKER_00 56:03

And I'm trying to help her, like she's she's living at home right now, stacking cash so that she can, you know, if she wants to move out, she could. Uh and she does, I mean, she doesn't want to live at home. Um so when she does move out, I'm trying to figure out what is her, you know, what does it afford her? And she's starting to think maybe, well, maybe I'm not a maybe I don't want to, because she also coaches volleyball. She has her own volleyball club.

SPEAKER_02 56:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 56:25

Uh, and trying to figure out, you know, is that really what she wants to be doing? I would say she has found who she was born to be. Um, it has something to do around uh the youth, around something around coaching or teaching. Um, and in that, whatever that may be, uh, you know, she'll she'll figure it out. But she'll it she'll, you know, doesn't take her a lot to to be happy um in life in terms of like, you know, she doesn't need expensive cars or she doesn't need, you know, she does like to travel, so you know, she'll put something away for that. But it's like trying to figure out what do you need in life and uh at what level, like how how much are you, yeah, like financially, how much do you need to live that life and then and then whatever you can do to supplement that, like keep putting that away so that uh that can start compounding on itself while you're not even watching and not even paying attention, uh, so that you know when you get into your 60s you can retire and 50s, retire whenever you, you know, are able to do so. But it's kind of just figuring out where you kind of fit in and what makes you happy. And you know, you hear it all the time about not all the time, but you can read sometimes about uh how much money, like what an average salary is for people to really be happy. It's not as much as you think.

SPEAKER_02 57:51

Right.

SPEAKER_00 57:51

Like and you talk to, you know, I mean, I'd I'd like to sometimes test this theory myself, but uh but I know that I would rather have I would rather have enough money to uh go to Las Vegas and race on the exotic racing track with a Ferrari every couple years. Right. I don't need one in my garage. Right. That's a headache. That'd just be a good one. I don't need it. Where am I gonna drive it? If drive it to the grocery store, I look like Portland weather sucks. You're like a few months, like I don't need the investment, I don't like I don't, it doesn't but to drive one, and I have done it on the on a track, like that is and that's what they're supposed to do.

SPEAKER_01 58:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:29

Uh and honestly, if I won, if I won the, you know, if I became a billionaire overnight, I'd figure out other things to do with that money to leave the legacy that I want to leave behind in this world. I don't need, you know, I don't need a like that was the funniest thing about uh I mean you've seen it, the the one video that you know caught fire, went viral on TikTok and everything about my sneaker collection.

SPEAKER_01 58:53

Oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:54

You have like five pairs of shoes in the closet, you know. Like I don't I was never into it for that, but I am into it for this. Like I'm like the fact that you're raising a you're gonna be raising a family one of these days. But you're like you enjoy it, like this, like and it makes people happy. Yeah, you know, and it and it and it wins championships and it does things, it gets people like on a pursuit. I guess that's it goes all the way back to the thing about the tr the trash. Like I don't if it isn't connecting with pe with human beings emotionally, like yo, where'd you get those? Those are fire, those are cool, I remember when, or I want to do, you know, I want to get those and I see myself wearing them and doing them, doing this, that, or the other, and then and even more so, like I love to connect with people like in person. Like that's why I'm you know putting this to this gathering together and the people that I've met and the people that are now helping me build it out even further, and the more we can connect to other people in the world, like that's what makes me happy. And and then also working with athletes and uh pro athletes and helping them win you know world championships and gold medals and you know, or a fifth grader to win their first AEU tournament or whatever it may be, helping someone run their first 5K. It does on literally I've told I I I've told groups of people this. I have the same amount of happiness and I go through the same process to uh help people run their first 5k than I did with LeBron, you know, when he was in high school or Serena when you know another uh you know major. Like I that's the same problem, like I get the same stoke, you know. Um because we're all trying to, you know, I I hope everyone, I hope I can help everyone pursue their best self. Yeah. Um, and that's that's why I do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:42

Yeah, no, that's facts. I that just made me think about like same thing, like when I'm talking to homies, even what I got homies that got you know million-dollar portfolios and stuff, and I they still ask me about stuff or what I'm thinking about the market, and and I'm like telling them, and you know, because you don't know about every stock, you don't know about everything, like everybody helping each other out, and then like I go tell somebody else the same stuff, same stocks, but like that don't know how to buy their first stock, and they're trying to figure it out, and it's like the same process. I'm like, bro, this is exciting. It's like almost more exciting for the beginner because it's almost expected from the elite, right? Like, it's like, oh, this is what you do, it's high level. We do this, right? But when it's the beginner, it's like, damn, they're about to catch the bug. Like, this is gonna be good, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:20

Yeah, yeah. No, for sure. I mean, I've yeah, I mean people ask me how I got into footwear design, why I do footwear, um, what I'm doing today, why I keep doing it. Uh, yeah, and it's just uh, I mean, ultimately, like it sounds maybe ethereal, uh, but it's to help push the human race forward. I just, you know, and I guess it goes does go back to the whole trash comment. Like, I I'm not I don't support creating product for just this creation's sake. Um, it needs to connect with people emotionally and it has to make people's lives better. If it doesn't, uh then it's not great. And then you have to kind of question why did it need to be in existence?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:07

So what do you think about this is random, but what do you think about a collector? There's different types of collectors that have a lot of shoes, right? Because I had a lot of shoes before I started social media stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:23

Do you have more than us?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:25

Yeah, this is only one of the rooms. Okay, there's multiple rooms.

unknown 1:02:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:30

So uh when you see big collections like this, what do you think about those type of collectors? I feel like it's a lot easier to justify from somebody like me now because I do social media stuff, so you know, oh, he's making videos, he's doing his stuff, right? But really, I had the same, I had more shoes before I started social media, and then I've been, you know, I've been trimming, I'm around the same amount now, but the quality has increased. But for the most part, volume were very similar. So I don't know, just how do you perceive like large collection type people that are not in the social media space? You know, I'm saying they're just like collectors. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:11

Uh I'm cool with that on many levels. Uh the like going to a sneaker con or something, I think is I mean, it's amazing. Like, there's a lot of people that can buy and sell, like resell uh product and and raise a family on it. Like I think that's that's super cool. Uh I think I'd lean more towards someone like you in your collection because I'm pretty sure I could grab any one of these shoes and you'd have a story for it. You'd have a reason why.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:45

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:45

Uh, and if that reason why is like because you believe that it's gonna be escalating in price and you're gonna be getting rid of it, you know, at that point to be able to buy more or flip it over into homes or do whatever. And I know it. I also know your why you're doing the homes. Like, yes, you want to build a financial portfolio to uh travel the world and have fun and enjoy life, but you're also doing it to help um, you know, the community that you grew up in, the people that around you. Uh there's a a bigger picture to your whole um how you're doing things, your whole strategy. So I kind of lean more towards that. Um and then I know and then people that literally have huge collections, and there's people that have come to mind, you might not even realize this, but there's people that have come to these gatherings, and uh they have some of the biggest and best collections of a certain type of product than anyone else in the world.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:41

And that's why I've always told people not saying the collections on the internet are bad or anything like that, but there are comparable or volume-wise or anything, or best in its specific class or whatever, that are never on the internet. I've seen some crazy collections locally and around the country, and there's some I've seen some in Japan. There's collections that are absolutely insane that they're just like, I'm not for that social media stuff. I'm like, this is I'll show you on my phone or come over or something, you know. But like, and that's the part of the game that I will always love. Like the samples and the rare gems and the the crazy collectible items, like that's the part when you're really in the weeds of collecting and you meet these people through networking and everything. That's that's the exciting part because yeah, you just know like the hype shoe is the hype shoe, everybody's gonna love it, it's coming out, everybody wants it. Like, what changes about that, right? Yeah, but then when you go see that random gym and they tell you the story of how the shoe was produced, or like what athlete wore it, and what what you know, the whole scenario of how the town boy got it, and then they got trickled down to so and so's family, and they found it at a garage sale, and like it's just be crazy provenance.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:51

That's the story. Like that's my whole like this t shirt on if I showed you the back of it, which uh it says it's the stories that matter, and that's what I believe in life. It's it's Your story that matters, it's someone else's story that matters. It's the story between us now and what we're going to be doing for the next foreseeable future, and hopefully for the rest of our lives, and the story that we write together with each other, uh, and then the stories that are you know that created these products, and then what you do with them and where you take them and and the story that you put into them are the reasons why there's a couple of shoes in here I know that you're never gonna get rid of. Um because of the story. And you and and you should be passing those stories down to your you know the next generation. Um otherwise they just then they'd be just become another shoe. And and that's all they are. They're they're just shoes until somebody's foot goes into them, right? Um and what somebody does with them and the and the memories that they put into them and have with them. And um, and that's no different than I just went to a watch fair uh and watches have the same community and same culture and same conversation around them. Uh I've been to you know, spirits is another one. Like I know people that collect whiskey and tequila and wine. Yeah. Uh, you know, there's so many cars. Um you know, I have a 1969 convertible firebird that if I take it to a car show, the less less than 12,000 of those cars were ever made. Let's do it. So, and I people that know about them stop in their tracks and want to have a conversation about it. Uh, and people that don't know about them walk on and you know stop at the Mustang or the Camaro.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:34

Wait, when did you get that? Today's partner is shopdNashow.com. Are you tired of wearing low quality gear? I completely understand. I made a personal mission to go out and find higher quality stuff and give it to you guys at an affordable price. And not only because of that, I have to wear this stuff every day, and I don't want to be wearing cheap clothing all the time. So I want to make sure that you guys know about it and are understanding that we have a lot of cool stuff coming out as well. Hit the link down below or pinned or wherever it may be. It's gonna be shopdnashow.com. There's new drops every single month. I'm excited to see you guys in the gear, and now let's go ahead and get back to the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:11

In college, that was my daily drive.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:13

Oh, you had it forever. Yeah, that's fire.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:15

But I've redone it. I thought you got it when you was like I put it into storage and then saved up. Back to your whole back to your whole what do you do with money? Like, I put it in storage, I saved up money, kept on squirreling that away. Okay. Uh, with the intent to um turn it into what it is today. Um and like it's an asset, you know. I mean, you have to find none of this stuff, this is all none of this is valuable unless there's two people that want it. Right. Well, unless there's one person that wants it. If there's two people on it, then it can you know escalate. But uh that's what a marketplace is. Um so, but I don't think, you know, my kids would kill me if I sold that car. Right. You know? Who's gonna get in? Actually, that's a great so I do this, I think about this, uh, and for your viewers out there that are that have uh that are starting their lives and building out a family or whatever, like think about the things in your life uh that your kids will fight over. If they won't, like, why do you or or to your point about uh financing and and and uh um saving money, before you buy something, ask yourself, do you really need it? And I'm okay with it, like if emotionally you want it so bad you need it, uh now ask yourself, how long will it be in your life? Right. And if you and if it's something that is that meaningful that every time you know that if you buy it, you hang it on the wall, put it on the shelf, put it on your table, whatever, put it in the closet, that every time you see it, you're gonna be like, dang, I love that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:01

I still got shoes from high school and stuff that still in my collection. It's crazy to think, like, starting back in 06, now it's 2026, and seeing some stuff from back then, it's just like every time I glance at it, just like light that fire a little bit, you know. Like, it's just so crazy. You're never gonna get rid of it. Those types of the pairs, like, and I've owned a lot of shoes, but there's certain ones that I'm like, yeah, no, I'm keeping this. I don't care if it's worth $50.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:31

Like, is there a pair that you wish you'd never got rid of? Or do you do you? I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:37

I feel like because of most of the shoe stuff, I'll say this before and I've made videos about shoes like that. I just get them back. So it's it's not like that. Yeah, but it's not the actual one, but it's not that unique though. At the end of the day, like it's just the shoe, like it's a general release that came out then, and you got them back, and it's like it's the same shoe.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:55

Yeah, but we did like went to your first date in that once or you had like I feel like so.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:01

There's all those type of shoes that like really meant something, I still have all those. Okay, yeah. So that's why that's why I'm saying, like, I there's if it's something like, oh man, I wish I would have never got rid of those. I'll just be like, oh, I'll just get them back. You know what I'm saying? Because realistically, most of the stuff in the budget is gonna be under 500 bucks. Like, if you really think about it. You got stuff that's like gonna be most shoes, it's like too if it's reselling, depending on if it's used or whatever, like from that era, you're looking at like 250, maybe even cheaper, or like 450 or somewhere around there. So, like, realistically, if you wanted to get it back, you could just like get it back. Like, it's not that I feel like if it's anything under a thousand dollars, I'm like, I'll just get it back.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:40

What do you think about like when a shoe comes out and people just buy it, like they try to buy it, they try to hoard it, they try to buy as many pairs as possible. Of the same shoe, yeah, or just yeah, just to resell it. Like they you know their intent is uh like they don't care about the shoe, they just want to flip it.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:56

So I think I was like a part of kind of a part of that, but not I don't know, it's hard to explain. I'll explain from where I came from. So like when I was doing it, I was just buying a pair for myself, and then I was buying, I was buying a pair at we're in school, and people be like, damn, he got all the shoes, right? And then they'd be like, bro, you're getting all the shoes, like I need a pair too. So then I started buying multiples, and I already kind of like had buyers like aligned, but I was making my profit enough to be able to cover the cost of mine. So then I was basically like, oh, I'll buy five pairs, make a little bit on each one, cover my costs, and I'll get mine for free. So basically, I was like, remember I was talking about flipping the house? I'll do that, refinance, and get my money back, and then I get the house for free. So I was doing that with shoes first, and it was like the same concept like buy multiples, get the bread, do that. But people was doing it where they're just like buying them all and selling them all, like they don't even want to pair for their own self. And I feel like that's the difference, the disconnect. Because I was like, how can I fund and grow my collection with what I'm doing and bubble that money up to then be able to afford it to get the shoes that I love? Yeah, and other people were doing it just to make the money and they don't care about the culture. So I feel like from somebody from afar, they could see it as like, oh, both of these people are buying up all the shoes, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then for me, I could be like, Well, I can see why you're doing it, because you're trying to like take the money to be able to fund your pair and still have a pair in your collection. Other person's doing that. So does that kind of show like where I'm thinking from? So for that state, I would say, like, yeah, I'm all for it for somebody who's trying to do that. And then also, there's times where it's like, bro, it's facts. Like, you guys talking about, oh, why did they take all the pairs? It's like realistically, how many pairs did they take? They got 10 pairs and they came out with 400,000 pairs. So you're mad that somebody bought 10 pairs, and then also like they're widely available in this store and they're not available in this state. So, because of that, there's a demand because they didn't come out in this state, but they came out in this state. So that means somebody had to buy them to get them to over here because somebody that lives over here can't get them. So they have to buy them from somebody and they gotta pay the resale to get it. Because they can't just buy a flight ticket and just put just to fly out to buy one pair of shoes doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:05

Yeah, it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:05

She would pay 70 over retail for to a reseller and then still get the shoe that you want. So there's like justifications behind certain things. I get it. But again, it's like all I feel like truly a case-by-case scenario.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:18

What's what's the uh what's the most valuable pair of shoes in this room? Or is it the same?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:25

Oh, I got the Nike Mags in here. Those 25,000, 22,000, something like that. They're in a box, they're over there. So let me let me let me uh ask Louis Vuitton, let me like 16, 17,000. Yeah, 16.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:42

What's the most valuable pair of shoes in this in your collection? To me?

unknown 1:14:47

Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:48

That's the one right there. Those black Rebuses, the stuff in this case is very valuable to me. It's probably worth like 40 bucks to somebody else.

unknown 1:14:57

Dead ass.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:58

But those black Rebus trainers, uh, that was the shoe I was wearing on my way to football practice when I almost died in a car accident. And I woke up, actually, I don't remember nothing until six months later, but apparently I was like this in the middle of the freeway, covered in blood, laid out, and one of my shoes was on, the other one was in the middle of the freeway. They brought my other shoe to me in the hospital later. Um, they had found it on the freeway. My foot was all mangled up, it looked like it went through a blender, like it was all bloody and cut up and everything. Um and then my back got the big cuts in my back and everything. My eye got slashed open on I don't know, where's the scar at? Is it this side or this side? It's one of these sides. I don't remember. There's like a scar right here. It's this side, huh? Yeah. Yeah, I think a head, but I don't know what I did, but basically, my eye was cut open here, covered in blood in my face, and then my ear was split open. Uh okay. Um, covered in blood, my whole back, my foot. I had roll rash all down my arm. I was covered in blood everywhere. Okay, let's get back to the shoe. But so the shoe was covered in blood too. So one of the feet was covered in blood because of it. The other one was flew off on the freeway. Nah, I cleaned them up. I wear them like every now and then, like when I'm like, I don't know, when I'm just like need to be motivated. Like a day where I'm just like, what's going on? And like, you know how you have them days, you're like, what the what am I doing? Is everything I've been doing worth it? Like, what are we here for? You know how you have those days? You have those days too. You never had those days before? Me, yeah. Yeah. So like when I have that day, I'm like, I'll put those on. Like, I'm like, I know what I'm doing. I don't know what I'm here for. So that shoe, definitely most valuable shoe, never get rid of. I would sell they're sitting right next to my red Octobers, which I wore in college when I graduated. I wore the blink Yeezy ones for high school graduation and the red Octobers for college graduation. So I was like, high school, college dropout, Kanye West, like it was during the same era. I was like, I'm gonna wear the Yeezys for college, like uh it was like my little thing. So those are valuable to me in that sense. They just do also happen to be worth a lot of money. But for me, they're gonna be really hard to let go of just because of like being the first in the family to graduate from college, doing all the stuff, like wearing them, working hard to get them. Like those were the main reasons, not actually the value of the shoe monetarily.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:15

Well, that's why I didn't I didn't bait the question completely, but you answered both.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:21

Yeah, so that's kind of like I'll always go with that first. And so when I make my like top 10 sneakers of the year videos and stuff, people be like, yo, this is always different. Cause like, yeah, there's gonna be hype shoes in there. Like, I'm naturally gonna like a hype shoe. And that doesn't mean I like every hype shoe. Yeah, but it doesn't have to be number one on my list like everybody else. Like, you're gonna see random shoes in there that I'm like, bruh, this one got me excited. Like, I like these a lot, and everybody else is like, bro, them is an outlet. So I'm like, that's cool, like I still like them. Like, that's awesome. So I don't know. They're all Nikes. This is a Nike room, yeah. Oh, we have to go to the other room. We got a I got another room, Jordan room for sure. Jordan room, miscellaneous, and then all like extra stuff. I still got stuff in a bunch of boxes still. It's funny because I'll get some comments like, oh, he's a hype beast, and the other comments is like, same thing. That collection is trash, it's a bunch of like a bunch of bricks, like it's like it's a mix of both. Like, you know, some stuff I like, it happens to be expensive. Some stuff I like is might be worth $100. I don't know. Who cares? We'll figure it out. I just like it. I got my stories and memories. Like the Teleria, man. Like, I used to run track. I was in the junior Olympics. I ran, I got second in a four by one. It was one of the fastest kids in the nation. I was really good. Ran the 1500 to 400 to 800.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:32

What was your best 400?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:34

I don't remember. I was young. I have to I have the books and stuff with all the you know remember they used to print it out in the books and on the sheets at the track meets back in the day? Yeah, yeah, all that stuff. I used to do all that, but that was one. I remember we were um the top top uh track athletes in the state, so like the Nike people would always come and give us like all the models and the new runners and all the stuff, and we would get to have them and we'd just be rocking them to school and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:59

Tinker was one of the coaches.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:01

He might have actually pulled up and I probably didn't even know. Like, which was crazy. But yeah, that he was my track coach.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:08

That's what I'm saying. He's one of the coaches.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:10

Uh when I was at high school at Grant.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:12

But yeah, it would just be random stuff like that. And when I came adult and I saw their retro, and I was like, bro, I gotta get those.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:19

I'm surprised they haven't done more.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:20

I know that's that colorway in particular. Like, oh my gosh, I got so many memories rocking those as a kid. The little tennis ball joint. But yeah, okay. Um, you think we answered some good questions today? Teach the people about the business side a little bit, updating life, what's going on? Yeah, what's the future with EQLZ? You uh you got a new model coming, and then working on some watches?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:48

Uh potentially, but helping them. I'm just doing what I can to help brands understand that it's the stories that matter and support them and understand it's that gut instinct that they should be working on and acting on and not just all data. Um have experience too, and and meeting with people and being a part of the community is like is paramount. Like that's what I mean. You look at all that like startups that come out of nowhere and start making waves. I mean, it's because they've you know gotten into the communities and or and or helped build the communities. Um I mean that's that's why we're sitting in this room. Right. That's what Nike was so amazing at. Um and they're you know, I would argue that that's where they're s where they slipped up, you know. They focused too much on the data and the people started walking away. Um the the emotional quotient of the company, the people. Yeah. Um their stock is well, that's a whole nother that does not the people come on. You have all people, like nobody you don't have institutional money buying it's just interesting stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:57

It's all AI, like it's all Yeah. Speaking of AI, real quick before we go. Oh we were talking about that earlier. Okay. The AI designs and all the stuff that's going on internet and how people are just like whipping these things up and you guys are spending all this time to create stuff. And do you use it with your design process, or how do you feel about it?

SPEAKER_00 1:21:17

I do just to help visualize. Uh but if you at the end of the day, if you can't turn that visualization into something that makes people's lives better, the game better, the run better, the walk about the city better, whatever it might be, um like who cares, you know? Uh and same with, you know, AI is never gonna replace, well, never so never, but I don't think in my lifetime it'll replace soul. Like, there's something magical about being human, and that's your job as a designer is to figure that out. Like, again, why all these things are in this room is because there's something human about them, there's something that is magical about them. And AI is just not gonna do that. Like, you have to spend time with the people you're trying to serve, you can't just prompt it.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:06

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:07

Yeah, you can do a lot I mean, and it can help. The other thing is I don't it drives me crazy to talk about speed, speed to consumer. For one, in uh um in the footwear world, I I I actually don't use the H-word very often, if that I try to avoid it as much as possible, but I do actually hate the word consumer, unless unless you're a consumable brand. But I'm not here to create footwear that can be consumed. Because when you consume something, you accept you have to dispose of it at some point. Uh I want to create product that um that has an emotional connection, that makes somebody's life better, that they created more story around it, and now they can't get rid of it because you know it won the championship forum, it was or you know, they were wearing it when they did, or they were bringing their first 5k, whatever. Uh so AI is not gonna get to that point. And so it just it's probably similar when like you know, photographers with an iPhone, or you know, everybody, you know, now all of a sudden is a is a photographer. Yeah, you know, like a lot of people thinking that they're they're a footwear designer, you know. They can visualize, like I can prompt uh AI to create a shoe. Um you know, I could say I mean it's it's not that difficult, honestly. But then to take that idea that well, one also like what is it for? Like what you know the prompts you still have to have. The human needs to give it the right prompt. Yeah, like how are you being empathetic? Like, what's the purpose of that shoe first before yeah, to give it the right prompt? Um and then to take to take that into three-dimension and into real life, and the nuances of footwear creation are uh I mean they're you're talking about millimeters, and I believe that millimeters matter, uh, millimeters equate to milliseconds. And when you're talking about performance product that makes people's lives better, I don't I I don't I've not I don't think I've ever designed a product where I didn't truly believe I was helping make someone's life better. Um and so I don't I don't think AI can do that. And and the brands and the companies that I work with now, I try to be their AI like and I don't I don't like artificial intelligence, I call augmented intelligence. Um so I think a company, a brand would be better served, you know, to to hire, hire me to come help be an augmented intelligence to their team than one more seat of VizCom or something.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:51

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:51

Like that's only gonna help you. Then it also like I've I've seen it already. It looked it's so realistic, and people are like, oh, that's fire, we gotta make that, and then they make it and they're like, uh, it's not as great as we thought it'd be. Right. Or they don't know how to make it into something that is that high-level performance product. Yeah. Um, and it's just kind of like an okay foot covering, and then that's not good for anybody.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:12

I've seen that plenty of times. You see sketches and it's just flowing so good and looks all futuristic, and then they make the shoe and you're like, eh, that ain't that good. Like maybe they should have just kept that on the sketchpad.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:26

Yep. So there's a big, there's a big, like, grand canyon size gap between prompting AI and uh world championship product. Um I always say it takes a world championship team to build world world championship product. Um you know, at all at all all facets of the team.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:50

It makes sense. It makes sense. Okay, we're gonna get out of here. We're gonna wrap it up. I think the next one we do, because it's gonna be over an hour-long conversation. Yeah. It's gonna be about how you're gonna turn yourself into a 40-year-old. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:06

I think people don't I need to get all my blood work done and then uh we'll do it after. Yeah, that'd be cool actually to break down like all the whenever you do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:14

We can do it right after. Because that's a whole thing. I think a lot of people can learn about like we were just talking about that what you can what you consume, how it changes everything. Do a test and it'll tell you, and you just when you thought you were eating healthy, like this actually hurting you. It's the opposite of what you need to be doing, and everybody ain't the same, and how to find those numbers and peritides and chill people and yeah. That's that's big. I think uh people want to have success, they want to make a lot of money and they want to do all these things, but then they don't want to take care of themselves, and then they wonder why they're miserable and they still got all the money, and then they're like, this ain't even worth it.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:47

Yeah, or you live a healthy life and then you get a headache, and then you w go to the doctor and they say you have a brain tumor, and you got four months to live.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:55

That's crazy too.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:57

That happens. So there's a balance. Yeah. That's why I eat chocolate chip cookies and ice cream every once in a while.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:03

Every now and then, gotta get my French toast. But it's good, yeah, you gotta get it.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:06

But I I I prefer homemade chocolate chip cookies or at a at a place that uh that I know that they're using good ingredients. Yeah. Um, you know, I I look at ingredients. I look at I care about what I consume. Um I mean it's still with every once in a while I'll throw a piece of candy or something down there.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:28

What's your what's your uh sweet tooth vices?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:30

Ice cream.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:31

Ice cream. Yeah, yeah. Cinnamon rolls and French toast for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:34

I'll I'll yeah, I know that to be a fact.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:37

I've seen it. I've seen plates of it. I like that. Alright, we good? Yeah. We got everything covered. We didn't even talk about them shoes down there. You was going over that, he was taking some hints from some current new designs over there.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:52

Yeah. I'll just take it out, I was just appreciating what Nike Nike's doing. I I if if people in the US get over the the the issues, they're not issues, if they get over the whatever they're getting over, um, about being a Chinese brand, like Anta and Li Ning could be doing some things because they're they're I don't prefer I don't love their design. I think they need more help on the design, the the aesthetic side of things, um and design, like general design, performance, all of that. Like I think I could help them, but but the engineering, like how what they're capable of creating, they're someone to reckon with.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:41

So, Anto Orlini, if you guys are watching or listening to this, hit him up. Y'all can work with him, but I gotta be his cameraman to document the whole process. There you go. I need two tickets out there, right? One flight for me, one flight for him. That'll be fun. I'll take the first class when you go premium economy. Alright, actually, I'll let you upgrade. I'll let you upgrade.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:06

I'm sure they can afford both.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:08

So all right. Um, tell everybody where to find you at. What you got? Um you got a website for this?

SPEAKER_00 1:29:15

It's come uh the website, it's thesories that matter.com. Okay. Uh Instagram, it's the stories that matter. Uh my Instagram is erin.ac.cooper. And I am working on a website and a couple other concepts to to help continue um sharing stories and and listening to people. Uh how to how to talk with people at scale. That's and I and by the way, I have a pet peeve. I didn't call you out on it, but uh let's not talk to people anymore. What you mean? Let's talk with people. When I say what did I say like when I was talking about listen to what I say and then start thinking about this with yourself and when you uh listen to other people.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:06

Oh, like when I say when I talk to my audience.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:09

I got you. And even even when it's a digital thing, like you're talking with, like you are getting you have potential to get comments back, and that is an exchange, that's a with. Right, right, right, right. And it's it's crazy how many people will say, Oh yeah, I was just talking to XYZ. Oh yeah, I was just talking to like so they didn't say anything back to you? Like you didn't, I don't like to talk to people, I like to talk with people. So I'm trying to figure out how to talk with people at scale. Okay, okay. Well and I'm not an Instagram like I'm terrible at it. Okay, benefit of the doubt.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:41

Benefit of the doubt. At least I wasn't talking at people.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:45

Fair. Yeah. This is true.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:51

So I did, I'm in the middle right now. I'm trying to get with we're we went from at to t.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:56

But you are a you are a with.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:57

That's what I'm saying. You are a with person. So No, I like that though. I like that. I gotta think about that for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:03

All right.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:04

All right. Well, I got some homework to do, y'all. Y'all do too. I'll see y'all in the next one. We definitely got another update. I'm gonna go get my Dex to scan. And then you're gonna Yep, that's what we're gonna do. We're both gonna do it.