Transforming the Trauma Landscape with Dr. Nat Green

In this insightful episode, Nichi Morrin interviews Dr. Nat Green, a post-traumatic growth coach, author, and podcast host with a background in clinical and health psychology. Dr. Nat shares her journey of over 30 years working in trauma, her personal experiences with trauma and invisible conditions, and how she has transformed her life to focus on post-traumatic growth and sustainable living. She discusses her book, "Key to Freedom: The Seven Step Model to Triumph Over Trauma," and her development of the ABS Method, which accelerates trauma healing.

Key Takeaways:

• The Journey to Sustainable Success: Dr. Nat opens up about the impact of ignoring her health while being driven and overworking, leading to a necessary sabbatical to recover and rebuild her life.
• The Importance of Listening to Your Body: She emphasises the critical lesson of listening to your body’s signals and making informed choices about rest and recovery to avoid long-term health consequences.
• Embracing Change: Dr. Nat discusses how she had to shift her mindset, accept her conditions, and redefine her identity beyond her work to live a more sustainable life.
• The Power of TRE (Trauma Release Exercises): She shares how TRE has been a game-changer in her recovery, helping release trauma stored in the nervous system and aiding in her journey to healing.
• Support Systems and Relationships: Dr. Nat highlights the importance of nurturing supportive relationships and accepting help, particularly from her husband, who has been a crucial part of her journey.
• Self-Advocacy and Finding Your Tribe: She encourages listeners to advocate for themselves, seek out information, and find communities that understand and support them, especially when dealing with invisible conditions.
• Dr. Nat’s Mission: Dr. Nat is passionate about transforming the trauma landscape by teaching therapists and individuals how to achieve post-traumatic growth and live more sustainable lives. She is currently working on expanding her ABS Method and reaching a broader audience through her podcast, "Growing Tall Poppies."

Connect with Dr. Nat Green:

• Website: www.drnataliegreen.com.au
• Instagram: @drnatgreen
• Facebook: Dr. Natalie Green
• Podcast: Growing Tall Poppies

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Previous Intro and Outro music: Inspirational Acoustic - Organic Harmony by Sonican; and Andrii Poradovskyi from Pixabay. Current music: levgen Poltavskyi from Pixabay.
Disclaimer: This content is general in nature and intended for educational purposes only. It is not deemed as psychological treatment and does not replace the advice from your health professional or need for psychological treatment.

Transcript

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Welcome to the Sustainable Success Series, the podcast where my mission is to transform the worlds of those living with invisible conditions, supporting them to become their biggest advocates, begin to heal and make sustainable changes to get back being too busy living. We explore sustainable success in health relationships and business. We raise awareness and we relatable stories from people just like you. Driven visionary people who dream of more for their life without sacrificing their health. or being stuck behind those invisible chains. Plus, the insights, knowledge and know how from those in the field. I'm your host, Nicky Moran. I've been through the trenches myself, through trauma, adversity, and invisible conditions. I've combined my lived experience, my learnings, and my diverse knowledge as a clinical psychologist, sustainable success coach, author, rural businesswoman, and entrepreneur to transform my life. My vision is to inspire a global movement for a world where invisible conditions are understood, accepted, and met with sustainable solutions. Empowering people to live with energy, purpose, and fulfillment. And I do this through the Million Scene Movement. Join me and be inspired, be curious, and become excited. This is the Sustainable Success Series. Welcome to the podcast, Dr. Nat. I am so super excited to be able to have you here to talk to today. So today we have Dr. Nat Green, who's a post traumatic growth coach and author and podcast host with a background in clinical and health psychology. Dr. Nat is passionate about transforming lives and revolutionizing the trauma landscape. With over 30 years working in trauma and having experienced her own trauma firsthand, Dr. Nat is a trailblazer. She's authored a book, Key to Freedom, The Seven Step Model to Triumph Over Trauma, and is founder of the ABS Method. Which accelerates trauma healing and transformation into post traumatic growth. She's also a nominee in the 2024 Women Who Podcast Awards in the USA. And received an award at the Therapist Rising Industry Awards in 2023. When she isn't writing, podcasting or changing lives, Dr. Nat enjoys coffee by the beach and travel. She lives on the New South Wales mid north coast with her husband and her two kids. So huge, big welcome, Dr. Nat. so much for having me on here, Nicky. I'm so excited to be one of your guests as you start to launch your amazing new podcast. Thank you. So, Nat, can we just start, can you please share a little bit about yourself and your story? Oh, goodness. Well, the short version of the long version, whatever you want to run with, we're happy. Oh, I mean, I think you've done a great introduction on a little bit around my past. The past version of me was a psychologist who has worked for 34 years in the field of trauma. So a very long time. Yeah, I had, had a lot of stuff go on and some surgery that didn't go very well and it resulted in significant, a need to significantly change, put it that way, the way I approached life and the way I worked and, um, Yeah. So now I'm no longer working as a psychologist, seeing clients or anything like that. I'm actually, I'd like to word it now as I'm on sabbatical, having a break, um, which was what I needed to do for myself to recover from. A lot of the things that were going on, and I know we'll get more into my invisible conditions and the things that I've been impacted by. Um, so I've spent many years, probably 13 years continuing to push through despite the pain, the emotional stuff that was going on, the physical stuff, and just kept going and kept going because that's what you do, isn't it? Apparently. Yes. And. You know, I'm pretty much a slow learner, apparently, and, didn't get the very loud four by two messages that were whacking me over the head saying, stop, stop, look after yourself. And eventually at the end of 2021, 22, I was forced into taking a break and, and it's been very good for my healing and getting to the point of being more sustainable. So yeah. And I think what you're saying that is such a common theme that so many of us, very driven visionary and entrepreneurial type people do is we can just be so used to going, going, going, going, and then we ignore what our body is telling us. And then our health or our nervous system becomes impacted and then. All of their functioning can just fall off the rails as a result. Absolutely, yeah, and more than once, sadly. Yeah, yes, I'm in the same boat there. so do you think that was some of the key influences or experiences that shaped your journey? Oh, yeah, definitely. yeah, I'd always been I've always been good at what I do and very committed to my job. It's where my identity has been wrapped up, sadly, a lot of the time. Yes, I'm a wife. Yes, I'm a mum and I enjoy those roles and, and do a reasonable job at those roles. But everything had been tied up in my identity of work and who I was and what I did, because I love helping people making a difference. And. It's only now in hindsight that I've recognized the impact that those patterns of behavior have had. but also, you know, there's probably been a lot of invisible conditions present most of my life, but everything came to a head after surgery in 2011. When I had significant trauma and almost died after surgery and My body was put under massive trauma and stress, and then all the invisible conditions started to be diagnosed. And I think That's such a good point what you've raised and in all your work that you have done around trauma you would see this regularly and I think it often gets overlooked is the impact that those experiences or those traumas or adversities can actually have not only psychologically but also on our bodies and physiologically and how those invisible conditions can then emerge. Absolutely. If I'm honest with myself, now I was always as a psychologist taught,, you know, do all the self care, have good supervision in place, have boundaries, don't show who we are to our clients. You have to be, you know, this almost brick wall in some, in some ways that you, you know, You don't share parts of you and your story and stuff like that in session. And you just always there for your clients. Don't break down if their story's really hard, all those sorts of things. So if we. We can put all those things in place, but if there's not really an outlet to process those things properly, yeah, sure. Supervision or whatever. It's not enough. No, I'm not very good. I've never been able to meditate because my brain doesn't switch off. It's always classic entrepreneurial brain with a bit of ADHD thrown in there. And, it just, it never switches off. So for me, lying down, doing a bit of a meditation never really worked. Because it doesn't quite, obviously I know that there's meditations you can do when your mind's still allowed to wander, but I wasn't very good at allowing it just to stop. I think because I was worried that if I stopped, I'd fall apart and people would get to see the real me and what was really going on in my head, which is pretty scary in this head. And I suppose that's Vulnerability, isn't it? Because when you, when you slow down and you're not, your mind's not busy all the time, well, you can be more vulnerable and that can be a scary place. Absolutely. And, and there's always that fear. If we're seen to be impaired and if we let people know, my gosh, I'm not coping. There's that fear of, Oh my God, I'll never be able to practice. Yeah. And that was going on for me. So I just kept going and I compartmentalized it. So it never impacted my client work ever. No. No. I never let any of anyone know what was going on. What we know is holding onto that whilst we hold space for our amazing clients, our body stores our trauma and our body stores the stories that they tell us. No matter what great stuff we've got in place, it's never going to not be imprinted in our nervous system. Absolutely. And I, I see that a lot and you would too with the work that we do. When that stress or that trauma imprints on the nervous system, it's going to come out in every aspect of our life and our functioning. And it's, I, I talk to it, well, I explain it to people as being like little, Half done like cycles in the washing machine imprinted on the nervous system and when we keep ignoring that they just keep building up and building up and eventually something's going to happen because they're not processed. I love the way you've described that. That's a really great way of thinking about it. Well, let me tell you that washing machine rides been pretty wild. Machines not going real well at times for me. And it does sound like that. Eventually it got to a time where it did sort of. Yeah, definitely. So I remember back in 2011, this is a classic example of being there, you know, literally almost dying, being in the, high dependency unit. And a guide wire in my arm in through the heart, and it was too close to the heart. And, and I've got, basically atrial fibrillation going on thinking I'm dying with a temperature of 41 degrees, but I was on my laptop because I had to do my pays for my stuff and do stuff like that. And I'll look back now and go, what was I thinking? A nurse came in and said, Oh, for God's sake, put your laptop away. Please put it away. Nothing's more important than your life. And it was like, Oh, but this is really important. And I look back now and I go, what was I thinking? So I didn't, obviously I was in and out of hospital for eight months and I worked in between and did everything that I still was hoping to do normally. And it wasn't until this time where everything stopped, where I made the decision in 2022, end of 21, whenever it was, and I took time off work because the best thing for me that I ever had was as a business owner, getting an income protection policy and God, I felt guilty. I felt so bad. Actually putting in that form and getting the doctor to sign it, to start to activate my income protection claim. And I was like, why do I feel bad about this? That's why we have insurance. That's what the claims person told me. I'm like, Oh, okay. So that was like, you have permission from someone else. I was like, yeah, okay. And then I stopped, didn't go to work. And of course. What I'd feared came true, got really, really sick and had shingles three times in five months. Wow. Yeah, it wasn't pleasant. And I thought on top of, you know, the autoimmune conditions, the chronic pain conditions that I already had and was still carrying my PTSD, everything else, and it took me. Months to actually accept that if I didn't stop and if I didn't really get in tune with my body and listen, I might not be here. That's huge. That is huge. And that is something that would be so hard to actually do though. And I do know from my own experience also, when you're so like busy, high functioning, multitasking, you've got all these things that you're wanting to do, this ADHD brain that, that we have. And then when you actually do slow after your body's been screaming at you for so long, when you actually do slow. Well, then your body's like, Oh my goodness, what are you doing? You're slowing. And then all these things can emerge, but having to accept that and really change what you're doing, like that is massive. That is hard. Oh, it was, it was probably, it's not the worst period of my life, but it was close,, and the guilt and the shame. And even, you know, I'm only just now starting to talk about it. People don't know that. I'm not working. I just say I'm on sabbatical. I'm not working'cause I'm not physically able to work to the level that I worked and I need to own that. Yeah. So I thank you for letting me come on here and talk about that.'cause there's not shame in that anymore. It's like, no, I gave myself the gift of rest and recovery. It's what I needed to heal and my body's still a work in progress healing, but it's definitely getting better. I love that, how you say the gift, it is a gift of rest and recovery, and it absolutely is. And, like, that is the whole purpose of this podcast, because that sustainable success, like success doesn't mean having wads of cash around, it is that focusing on your health and the things that are right for you and the things that are going to sustain you. Um, to be busy living the life that you, you wanting to live to find that happiness and that purpose. And I really like how you said that gift of rest and recovery. And I think a lot of people forget that we're human beings and like we're human doings a lot. Yes. Yes. And I've been a doer all my life. Yeah. So that's how it needs to happen. I'll just do it. I'll get in and get it done. So that's been a huge shift in how I think. How I function, like financially, I walked away from a million dollar business because it wasn't serving me and the impact it had on my nervous system constantly switched on and nerves firing. It's impacted my nervous system as well as the client's stories through no fault of their own and no fault of my own. And I think that's the thing that I didn't listen. When the messages were being sent to me loud and clear, and sometimes we're forced to get to that point where we have to change what we're doing, or we're not going to be here. No, and your life is worth more than anything else. Absolutely. Absolutely. Spot on. Nothing's more important than your health. Yep. If you don't have your health, then you've got nothing. So, you know, I now, thankfully I have the most amazing husband who I physically can't do without. The housework, I can't do it. I can't squat like, and that's not a, something for people listening to go, uh, surely if she just did more rehab or she just did, these legs no longer squat, the ankles don't work in that way. So he carries the load and that's been a huge,, burden of guilt to bear. A lot of the time he's wonderful. He never complains. He's been doing this since. My surgery in 2011. That's amazing. Yeah. He's so good and looks out for me and, you know, I do what I can obviously to contribute to the household, but the dynamics definitely changed. So yeah, I don't, for one day, not recognize., the support he gives and how amazing he's been. That's beautiful. Thanks. It's true. Cause I couldn't do it. I'm lucky, you know, and we pay, you know, I, I scraped the money together to pay a cleaner because he works really hard. I don't want him to come home and have to then clean the whole house. So once a fortnight, there's a cleaner, but he carries most of the load with the day to day stuff. And I've had to accept that, that it's not how I like it, but that's the reality. And if I need, if I want to have energy for being with him, with the children, doing the things we want to do in life, then I have to do that. Absolutely. It's all about monitoring that energy you see Jim. And that expenditure. Absolutely. So with all these changes to help you overcome some of these challenges to be able to function, what sort of mindset works? Did you find you had to do? It's probably not an easy question to answer. It's not an easy question. But, I've always been, I've always been an optimist. I've always seen the best in things, the best in people, much to my detriment at times. You know, I'm, I'm not someone who always sees the worst in things and looks for the negative, even though it would probably be easy for someone with the things that have gone on in my life to think, Oh, it's all too hard. Yeah. But I just think, I've always enjoyed learning, reading, I'm in a, an amazing group,,with like minded women and we have a wonderful mentor and I know you're in that group too. And that's been a godsend, the relationships there and having a coach to call me out on things. Yep. And last year, The biggest mindset work I, the shift I did was she called me on one of my patterns, which was Nat, you need to work on your self sacrificing behavior. That's it. I was like, Oh, right. That was the fluffy sledgehammer. We call her. Thanks Haley. If you're listening to this, sledgehammer whacked me and, and I'm forever grateful because sometimes working with a coach, And since having you in my orbit and being around you, just getting permission that it's okay to recognize where we can't do things, or we need a bit of extra help to do things is really important. And having a coach to call us out on things that we can't see because they're in our blind spot. Yeah, I did some breakthrough work to work on that pattern and it shifted everything. It totally changed the whole way I look at things and the way I've been able to do recovery work on myself. That's amazing. And that, that self sacrifice isn't that one of those big things that's hard to change too when you're used to it. Oh, yes. I had a good teacher. My mum taught me very well. And all of that was, was stuff that came up, it's like, Oh, okay. Yeah. But recognizing that and, and doing the work. And I think it's work as in not a horrible task, work that is positive and, and really freeing. Because it's like, ah, it's given me the freedom that I wanted. I didn't know how to get there or what to do or where the issue was, but getting to that root cause and taking action little by little is part of the mindset stuff that I needed to do. I think that's connected with processing those imprinted on our nervous system too. Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, just finding, I think, you know, everyone's going to do. What works for them. Yeah. Like some people might love mindfulness and meditation. My brain didn't allow for that, but I've found a thing called TRE trauma release exercises. And it's a physical thing that I can do. That's not overly exert. It doesn't exert too much energy, but it helps release a lot of the stuff that's imprinted in my nervous system from the years of work that I've done. And that's been slowly helping shape. Yeah, my recovery. That's amazing. And that was actually one expression is what have you found, any practices or, or things that you found that's helped with the physical or the physiological type things? Yeah, for me, the TRE has been a godsend. I just, I've tried all the things and you know, I've been the psychologist that's told people all those things. Uh, years ago, in another lifetime, I worked in a pain clinic. So, I know all the strategies to do to help chronic pain, and I don't let my pain rule my life anymore. Yeah. I just do things regardless of the pain. I pace myself, I do all the things that I can do, um, and some days I, you know, I lie in bed. A friend of mine, found this great word. It's called hercule dercling. What's this word mean? Hercule dercling. A herkle derkle is where you lie in bed and give yourself permission to stay in bed and rest and take it easy for the day. I do herkle derkle a bit as well. I like that. I love it. It's that gift of rest and recovery again. Yep. The gift of rest and recovery and herkle derkling, brilliant. I would never have done that, ever. I mean even just saying that, people who might listen to this that know me will be laughing their heads off going, You! This is the new me. And it's a gift that I've given myself to help manage my invisible conditions. and yeah, the TRE has been a game changer because I can just do that, you know, 10 to 15 minutes. Three times a week. And it's. Working out my own body wisdom and trusting that it knows where all the trauma and the hurt and the pain and the issues are stored. And by allowing myself the time and space to do that, it does what it needs to do. And I just go, yep. And I get up and I feel better. That sounds absolutely brilliant. I love it. It's weird. It looks strange. But it's amazing. Sometimes the weirdest things are actually the most amazing things because it works at that deep core level. Yeah. And it's basically all it is, is when we go through some sort of trauma or some sort of stressful situation, our bodies normally, they, they shake if something's stressful or we're scared, our body tremors. And society teaches us that, Oh, don't do that. Like you have surgery and you come out of surgery and, and for me, I shiver really significantly and they put a warm blanket on you and they try and get you to stop your shivering and your tremor, but what we know through the study that I've done with TRE is that that's actually stopping your body. Restoring, it's, it's basically restoring the chaos. Yeah. Yeah. Stopping what it's meant to be doing. Exactly. So we really need to be allowing ourselves to let ourselves tremor. So that's what the TRE does. It evokes the tremors and, and gets that trauma out. Yeah, that's amazing. So you mentioned before also about how supportive your husband has been through this. And going through this journey, this new transformation from this really super busy, health impacted you. To the year now, how did you think you nurtured or maintained those important relationships during your journey? Oh, that's a good question. Sometimes, not well. A lot of the time I shut down and isolated myself. And I didn't, I didn't tell people. There's very few people that really know. No one really knows other than probably my husband who sees it, but I don't ever talk about the pain and stuff like that. So, I've, uh, I've lots of friends, but a couple of good ones that know the deeper things that I share some of. And I think that that's really important to be able to, well, I do like my coffee by the beach, so we do make the, Time and effort to catch up and have coffee by the beach, because those interestingly, my closest friends also have invisible conditions. We don't sit and talk about that. We don't talk about that at all, because that keeps us, I think, stuck in it, focused on it. And you go down that path and you could wallow in it forever. Yeah. Um, we live it every day. We don't need to be constantly talking about it as well. I don't think that's just for me. That. It may not be how other people feel. Um, so doing that and having that quality time to just check in with how our kids are and what's going on in each other's world, because when we aren't doing the things we used to do, our worlds get smaller. Yeah, that's so true. Not necessarily bad smaller, but smaller. I think for me. It's taught me what really matters, what's important and yeah, after going through what I've gone through and learning to live with things, it's, it's like showing up when you've got the energy with the best part of ourselves. So don't give energy to people that drag you down, that drain you. Because that's exhausting. I don't have the energy for that. So it's nurture the relationships that are supportive and I've always been someone to give rather than receive. So learning to receive support, yeah, it's a big work in progress with that. And that actually flows to the next question is. How did you connect with that inner self to embrace your unique zebra stripes? And that's part of it is being receptive, isn't it? Yes. Connect with that inner self. Accept. And whilst I definitely haven't liked it. If we can't get to the point of actually accepting, or I'd say first acknowledge it. It's really important that we acknowledge that it's going on. I've thought that for many years, finally acknowledged it when left with no choice and then got to a point of, well, I can keep fighting it. That takes energy that I don't have, or I can accept it and go, well, it's not my identity. For me, it's been important to not become my conditions. You know, I'm not complex regional pain syndrome. I'm not my autoimmune conditions, plural now, um, I'm not that. I'm so much more than that. They're there and I have them, but I am not them. And by changing that perception. It's changed my relationship with those conditions, but also allows me to show up as the best version of me with the people that I want to be with. Yep. Does that answer your question? Yeah. That was amazing. I loved it. Um. It was a long way around. Sorry. No, that's good. So what is, do you think are the key lessons that you've learned on your path? Another good question. There's been lots of lessons. The biggest learning, whether it's a lesson is that, well, you know, and I can't look back with regret that I should have listened to my body earlier, but the biggest lesson is that I now listen and get the messages. Quicker than I used to, not always choice, but I think, and I think that's the lesson that it's a choice and sometimes I will make a choice not to listen and that's okay. There will be consequences, but it means that I can, you know, maybe do things that'll zap more of my energy and the consequence might be that tomorrow I don't have a good day, yeah, but that's an informed decision and informed choice because. What I get out of that experience will outweigh the fact that I might have to rest tomorrow. So the biggest learnings are that the world doesn't blow up and fall apart when you rest and recover. That the people that really matter will still be there, but you can't take that for granted and not put the effort in yourself and that. Yeah. Taking the time out for me to work, to not work and stopping work was probably the biggest positive thing that I did that I would never have seen that it would end up like that back then. Yeah. So now it's given me the space to activate my brain because it functions better than it used to, to do a podcast, to reach people and still make a difference. Using my energy, the best way I know how and doing it on days that suit me. So having that flexibility rather than having to be on 24 seven, I can do it far more sustainably now and I enjoy it. That's awesome. So others who might be listening, who might be struggling. With their invisible conditions or trying to manage sustainability. Is there any, um, reflections or thoughts or advice or messages for them? I've got lots to say. I think one of the biggest things is. It's okay to give yourself permission to acknowledge what's going on for you. And the best thing you can do is to stop. And get as much info as possible about your condition. That's what I learned even more since checking in with you recently. And you said, I remember it was earlier this year, we're having a chat and you went, that sounds like Ella's Danlos. I'm like, what, what's that? Oh, and you went into great detail explaining about the Ehlers Danlos syndrome. And I was like, Oh, I've had, I'm hyper mobile. I just thought, Oh, that's just who I am. I couldn't, there's only one joint in my body that I haven't had reconstructed. Not one, only one. And it needs reconstructive surgery on tears, but I'm ignoring it and hoping it'll go away, but it won't. I don't have time for that right now. So I think getting. In contact, not necessarily in some of those Facebook support groups, because I think that some of those can be really, they can, you know, they serve a time and a place for people. Yeah. But I think that for me, they focus on the negatives and made me feel worse. Yeah. Um, whereas connecting with you has It's given me information, validated it, and given me hope that, Oh yeah, you can live with these conditions and there, there are other things going on and there's reasons for them rather than thinking like the doctors often tell you it's in your head. Yes. Yes. If it can't be seen, it can't be measured. That's one of the things, isn't it? Exactly. So I think probably if you're listening and you. Thinking, Oh yeah, I've got all this stuff going on, but I'm not sure. Or, Oh, there's no, I've got the energy to do this. It's like trust in yourself and don't give up, keep searching for answers. And keep advocating for yourself. That's one of the biggest things I've loved about you, Nikki, is that you've advocated, you've advocated for my daughter, my son, you've helped give me an understanding and, and helped reignite that within me, that we have to be our own best advocates. Trust that we know our own body. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because we do. Mm hmm. The doctors. aren't God. No. They don't have all the answers and if we don't feel that they've listened or they've empathized or they've given us the answers that we want, go somewhere else. Absolutely. It's like when you're shopping for a car, you don't go look at the first car and yep, I'm taking that one and if you're healthy, you definitely do not. It's self advocacy and knowing how to put together the story of what's going on for you and finding the right people to go to, to be heard and seen and to work out what's going on because there's a reason for whatever's going on. It's not just. And I think, you know, when you can find those people that can help with that, well then you start becoming visible instead of invisible. Exactly. And sometimes part of that is also. We spend a lot of time with all these things because who we are is not the same as who we used to be once these things get into our lives and, and weasel their way in there, that who we are changes. We're okay. We're not broken. That we. Still have the right to be seen, be heard. And it's really important that we do, we need to advocate for ourselves and stand up for ourselves, but we matter. Absolutely. I love that. Makes me excited. Yeah. Don't let anyone tell us that we don't matter because we feel bad enough at how much we've changed and how the old. version of us is so different to our current reality, but it doesn't mean it has to be our future reality. We can create and write our own story about how that will look. It'll be different. It won't look the same. Absolutely not. That can be okay because I can tell you now. That I have spent so much more time with my kids, connecting, we talked about relationships and probably didn't answer that. I have a much better relationship with my kids now because I'm not work, work, work all day, every day. I still am busy most days. I don't sit around doing nothing. But I'm connecting to the things and the people that matter now in a way that I never did before. I'm being, not doing. That is so awesome. So working and living more sustainably has made, or has resulted in your relationships being way more fulfilling and successful and you can show up how you want to show up. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I have. And that's how we need to be able to have better quality relationships with the circle of people like you and our beautiful mentoring group that we're in. They're the most amazing people all with our own missions and our own desire to have impact, but we're all going to get there in very different ways and interestingly, the majority of people in there have invisible conditions. Yes. Isn't that so interesting. To varying degrees, but we've found our people. Yeah. And so don't feel like you can't disentangle from old relationships because you will outgrow the people you used to hang around. And that's okay. Not all of them. And you don't have to let them all go, but if they're not understanding why you're not working, why you're not playing sport, all the things that you used to do, then are they your people? Yeah. No, it's about finding that tribe. That gets it. I think that's important. Absolutely. And when you find that community, enjoy it. Because you can only thrive. Yep. It makes a huge difference. So, Nat, so what are you currently working on at the moment and what are the, the goals that you're focusing on right now? My main goal is I'm on a mission to, I'm doing a podcast where I speak to people who've experienced trauma, come out the other side and, uh, have moved into post traumatic growth and not stuck in their trauma. And we're looking at all the clues and the breadcrumbs that each of those people are showing us of how we can move into post traumatic growth. In a more accelerated way. So for me, my big mission is I want to read the world of the suffering associated with trauma. I'm not naive enough to think I can stop the trauma. I really very strongly believe that we don't have to suffer in the same way. So I'm working at the moment on. Developing my method that you mentioned earlier that I've developed, which is a really holistic approach to trauma. It looks at the identity, the values, who we are after our trauma and getting to a point of accepting that, and then looking at letting go of the. Negative emotions that have kept us stuck there. The guilt, the shame, all the things that I talked about that I've experienced, and then bringing it all together after we've get clear on our identity, let go of the negative emotions, but clearing it out with the TRE. So we're cleansing our whole nervous system. And then my aim is to teach other therapists how to use this method. A, on themselves in their own work, but also in their practices so that they don't have to continue to feel burnt out, exhausted, and that they can be healed and work out. Do they want to stay in the industry and keep helping the wonderful people that they're helping or move on so that, yeah, there's not a mass exodus of therapists like there is at the moment. We changed the therapy trauma landscape. Yes. That is a massive mission, but it is so needed and it is, it's so inspiring hearing what you're working on. It's definitely so needed. So how can listeners connect with you and learn more about your work? thank you for that. I'm on, I have a website that's being revamped at the moment and in the process of putting all my new stuff on it. And it's www. drdrnataliegreen. com. au. Thank you. And I'm on Instagram, Dr. Nat Green and Facebook, Dr. Natalie Green, and you'll find out more about me there. And I talk about my podcast, Growing Tall Poppies on there as well. And I will also put links in the notes, so And is there anything else that, um, you'd like to add to wrap up? Oh, I'd like to thank you for having me on your podcast. And I'm so excited about what you're doing in the world and the mission you're on to help us people with invisible conditions. And let's face it, there's more and more and more. There is, it's an epidemic at the moment. There is. And I honestly don't think it's going to change. So I love that you're helping. Us who have invisible conditions, but often feel invisible to be visible again and help us to live more sustainable lives because gosh, the world needs that. Thank you so much, Nat, and I have just loved, loved, loved interviewing you today and finding out about all the amazing things that you're doing. I will put the links in the show notes and thank you very much for being here today. Thanks for having me. Bye. Bye. Thank you for listening to the Sustainable Success Series. Our content is general in nature and does not replace the advice from your health professional. Please subscribe to our show and follow us on social media to stay up to date and connected.