Ep. 19: Breaking the Trauma Cycle - Dr Nat Green on Post-traumatic Growth & Holistic Healing

In this powerful and raw conversation, Nichi welcomes back Dr. Nat Green — trauma breakthrough coach, bestselling author, podcast host of Growing Tall Poppies, and creator of the ABS Method and the Seven Archetypes of Transformation. With over 30 years in the trauma space and lived experience of complex trauma and invisible illness, Dr. Nat shares her deeply personal story of hitting rock bottom after serious health complications, burnout, and medical gaslighting — and how she used her own breakthrough strategies to rebuild her life and nervous system from the inside out. Whether you're a health professional, trauma survivor, or someone navigating invisible illness, this episode is a beacon of validation, hope, and holistic insight. Healing is possible — and it can become the foundation for a meaningful, thriving life.

Key Takeaways:

1. You Can Rise After Trauma: Healing doesn’t have to take years. Accelerated trauma strategies create profound shifts, even when traditional methods fall short.
2. Trauma Lives in the Nervous System: Emotional residue from our own experiences and the stories we witness in others (vicarious trauma) accumulate in our nervous systems. Left unprocessed, it contributes to burnout, chronic pain, emotional dysregulation, and health crashes.
3. Medical Gaslighting is Real: Dismissal and invalidation in the health system can compound trauma. Trusting your inner knowing and advocating for yourself is vital.
4. Invisible Illness Deserves Visibility: Invisible conditions often get overlooked. Validation and holistic support can change outcomes.
5. Burnout Isn’t a Buzzword: Especially for health professionals and helpers, burnout is often a symptom of deeper unresolved trauma and nervous system overload — not just poor self-care.
6. Healing is Holistic: True recovery includes the head, heart, and gut — our three brains. Reintegrating all parts of ourselves is key to sustainable wellbeing.
7. Know Your Trauma Archetype: Dr. Nat’s 7 archetypes help people understand their unique healing blueprint.

📚 Resources:

• Book: Break Your Trauma Cycle: The 7 Archetypes of Transformation — by Dr. Nat Green (Link in Instagram bio)
• Growing Tall Poppies podcast by Dr. Nat Green

🔗 Connect with Dr. Nat Green: Instagram: @drnatgreen or Facebook: Dr Natalie Green

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Previous Intro and Outro music: Inspirational Acoustic - Organic Harmony by Sonican; and Andrii Poradovskyi from Pixabay.  Current music: levgen Poltavskyi from Pixabay.  
Disclaimer: This content is general in nature and intended for educational purposes only.  It is not deemed as psychological treatment and does not replace the advice from your health professional or need for psychological treatment.  

Transcript

0:06

Welcome to this episode everybody. I am just super ecstatic today to be back with Dr. Nat Green, who's a trauma breakthrough coach, bestselling author, and host of the Growing Tool Poppies podcast, which is brilliant by the way and creator of the A BS method and the archetypes of transformation. With the background of over 30 years working in trauma and having lived experience with trauma, Dr. Nat is an industry trailblazer. She empowers individuals to thrive after trauma. Using her signature accelerated breakthrough strategies, a BS method. With her unique blend of professional expertise and personal experience, Dr. Nat helps clients clarify their values. An identity after trauma release their emotional burdens and regulate their nervous systems for holistic healing. Dr. Nat is author of The Key to Freedom, the Seven Step Model, to Triumph Over Trauma and Break Your Trauma Cycle. Seven archetypes of transformation. She's passionate about revolutionizing the trauma landscape and showing people that healing is not only possible, it can become the foundation for a thriving, meaningful life. And I also interviewed Dr. Nat back at episode three if you'd like to learn more. But for today, let's here at Bonnet. Welcome. Thank you so much for having me, Nikki. I'm so excited to be here again. I feel so privileged and honored. Thank you. Oh, I'm so excited for what we're going to discuss today because I think you just have so much knowledge, so much skill, and there's just immense value that our listeners can gain from hearing you speak today. Thank you. So, Nat, can you just share a little bit about your journey and what drew you towards working in this space? Oh, a little bit. I could talk for ages on this, Nikki. Um, I guess I'd always, I'd spent my life being the person that everyone came to, to ask advice, to help, to listen, and so. Even though I wasn't planning on going down the path of psychology, I actually wanted to be a physiotherapist, believe it or not, because I'd spent my life like always playing sport, but constantly having injury after injury. In fact, my family would have a bet as to when I'd go away to play at the elite volleyball level, what injury I'd come home with. So. They always took bets about that.'cause there was always a something dislocated or sprained or something like that. So physio, it was gonna be, and I think I missed out by two marks was devastated, but, oh well I'll do psychology. So it was pretty funny'cause then at that time everyone's like, but we always thought you'd do psychology. It's like, ah, can't see what you. Can't see, I guess. Yes. So yeah, I went down that path and I always felt pulled to work with people who were struggling, just experiencing things a little out of left field or out of outside the norm, I guess, and came across a lot of trauma. A regional area that I was living and working in and ended up working in, port Arthur for a year after the massacre. Oh. So that was a significant trauma event, and about a few months after I returned from doing that work, then there was the. Mine collapsed at North Parks, so I had another year out in the field working with some significantly distressed and traumatized people, and that really cemented it for me, that that was the work I felt like I was born to do, working with people who'd experienced such immense pain and I wanted to make a difference. So that started that journey. It's a long-winded way to answer your question. And then I kept noticing that whilst I loved working in that trauma space as a psychologist, I was getting really, really frustrated at how long it took people using my evidence-based training to, to heal if they ever healed from their trauma. I just felt like they had to talk about it, and I wasn't sure that talking about it and doing exposure therapy was. The best way to do it, even though it was what we were trained in, but I kept doing it. Then I came across the field of coaching and I was trained in a process strategies in the field of NLP, so neurolinguistic programming, and there was some amazing accelerated methods in there, and I just thought, wow, I can't unsee. What I've now seen the results that I was getting, and then I went on to start to use a method that I adjusted a bit for myself in my practice and my clients were getting amazing results in very few sessions. Wow. This sounds amazing. It's something not often seen. No, and I think I was frustrated really at the fact that it was just so accepted. That healing from trauma took years. And we would sit there and keep going over and over it and I was like, hang on, I don't think it will. And then, then I was really put to the test and, and as you know yourself that we often are working in the area that we have the most lessons to learn in. Exactly. And suddenly, I. I went in for a major ankle reconstruction because I'd ignored the underlying pain and issues with my ankle that I'd hurt 25 years before and eventually, yep. I remember going. Into my kid's school. They were in early primary school, and I stepped over it as just a little fence, stepped over the fence and heard this crack and snap, and thought, oh, that's not good. And started down the path of seeing more specialists, more people who were trying to help and fix what was going on, and ended up having to have major ankle surgery, which yeah, didn't go so well, and I didn't really know why Then. And then I ended up, in a hospital bed with significant infections, golden staff infections, had systemic issues and almost died, and then was in and outta hospital for an eight month period. And in that period. Developed all these other weird things that were going on with allergic reactions and significant pain and all these invisible conditions that I know you and your listeners know well. And I just, I really, well, I remember in a hospital bed one time looking like I had chickenpox, I had allergic reactions. Uticaria yet again, and I'm thinking. Oh my goodness. What now? I had been put on every single antibiotic, every single pain medication, nothing worked. And a doctor came in and said, you can't possibly be allergic to that. It's in your head. Oh my goodness. Yeah. And I just went, look at me like I can't make this up. Yep. So it was classic. I know as you and I have talked about before, medical gaslighting. Mm-hmm. Because at the time they were frustrated'cause nothing they were doing was getting better. Yes. Yep. And I was just in the too hard basket and like I said, in and outta hospital for eight months and you know, the distress and the trauma that caused and the consequences of almost dying. And then not knowing what was wrong. And then I had another significant trauma that was done to me by a. Allied Health Professional, which I won't go into details of, but yeah, it basically shattered me and I felt I couldn't keep going, so I became, you know, really distressed, ultimately suicidal. At the time, I didn't feel like I was going to kill myself, but I wanted to not wake up. And I just thought, this is it. I'm gonna drive over a cliff because I can't keep living like this. That was my rock bottom moment. And you know, I just kept pushing through, pushing through. Couldn't work for quite a while, but kept working on my approach and my method because I thought. I know this will make a difference. And after being told Natalie, you'll have PTSD for the rest of your life. You'll never heal. You'll never be able to move forward from this. And you know, reports that said that you'll never work again. You won't be able to do this. I know you think you can use this method on yourself, but we don't really believe that. I thought, ah, I just felt helpless and hopeless. I. Like there wasn't a way forward. Wow. So you were out there doing all this amazing trauma work and then you, your health went down and it seems like it really, really went down with all that time in and outta hospital that gaslighting the surgeries, the infections, the, the dismissing. Which is something I hear so often. There's not a week that goes by where I'm not working with people who are just so distressed and feeling at a loss from being dismissed or being gasoline. And I'm not saying everyone does gaslighting or even directly, it can be indirectly because it's just the way they're so used to working, but it is devastating. To have this happen, and it sounds like it really, really pushed you to the brink. You just felt hopeless and helpless and isolated and like you weren't getting anywhere, and it, and it really grinds my gears. When I hear such fixed mindset comments in those reports of you will never be able to work again, or you will have PTSD the rest of your life, or you will not be able to heal yourself, and that is not where I come from and it's not where you come from and it's not what people are wanting to hear. It is not helpful and. I fully believe if you are alive, healing can occur and change can occur, and it's finding the right people with the right skills that can actually look outside the box and see a future for that person and see healing and. Part of that is looking at people holistically, and even with my own experiences, so many times have I had to advocate either myself or my kids or a client. In terms of look at the whole clinical picture, look at someone holistically. We can't treat symptoms in isolation or just look at one thing. We've gotta look at the entire clinical picture, and that's looking at the entire person as well. And I thank you so much, NA, for sharing your story because. It just demonstrates what so many people go through, and that vulnerability in sharing that is immense. But I think it can give people hope that, to advocate yourself, but also to look outside the box. Yeah, absolutely. Because, you know, I went down the path of, okay, I have to be on the other side of the couch. That was. Very challenging, especially in a regional area where I was a senior psychologist and knew everybody and I didn't really wanna open up about what was going on and what had happened. So I went to someone, I trusted another senior therapist, and I've never been so devastated in my life. They basically said. Really sorry, Nat. As I burst into tears, shared the story and they said, oh, I can't really help you because if I have to go on the stand in court down the track, then we are friends, we're colleagues, so I can't help you. I was like, oh. So again, I just felt let down, dismissed when I'd. Finally had the courage to speak up. So I thought, that's not gonna work for me. I did work with, you know, a psychiatrist who wanted to put me on medication, but couldn't guarantee I wouldn't have an allergic reaction to that. So I held my ground and like you said, advocated for myself and never took medication. But he was helpful to talk to and just. To know that I, he never gaslit me. Yeah, he, he did believe that I wouldn't ever get better and go back to any work, but I thought he would listen without too much judgment. So that was okay. Yeah. And then I thought, I'm gonna try my method on myself. I know that sounds really weird, so I got someone to. Do it. Yeah. And gave my feedback when they didn't do it the right way. Yeah. Yeah. Not that I was a control freak at all much. And yeah, I, I haven't looked back. It was life changing. It worked in that it really released this emotional stuff that I'd been carrying. For years, unknowingly, that was stuck in my nervous system from not just this part of what had happened with the, you know, the surgery that hadn't gone well and the other trauma, but the reality was I had carried all the years of working in trauma, even though I'd done supervision and self care in inverted commas, and. It was in my nervous system, and that left me highly sensitized and on edge and wasn't allowing me to regulate my nervous system because it was, best word I can come up with was it was fried, completely fried, and I know, you know. Mm-hmm. A lot about having a fried nervous system, and I think it was. I was already feeling a lot better, but then I came across you and you were like this godsend, because I actually was talking to you and you said, oh, it sounds like you've got this underlying invisible health condition. Just, just another one to add to my already. List of autoimmune conditions, complex, PTSD, the complex regional pain syndrome. And then you said, what about Ella's Danlos? I'm like, what? What's that? And when I read about it, I'm like, oh my goodness. Now it all makes sense as to why I was hypermobile had all these, I couldn't tell you how many operations I've had on every joint in my body except one. Has been operated on and every single time I have surgery, the orthopedic surgeon says, oh my God, that would be the worst one I have ever seen. Every time. Yep. And I just thought there was something wrong with me. Yes, yes, yes. Until you told me, well, maybe this is going on underneath. And it was like that information and that knowledge. It gave me power. Yeah. And I thought, okay, I can't, it's not a treatable condition like most of the other things that I have, but there's a reason and there's not something wrong with me. Yeah. I could then look at myself in a more holistic way and really start to do that deep nervous system healing work. Oh. So thank you. I can't thank you enough for putting, bringing that picture together for me, and that's what I love to do is be to help. Put that picture together for people because it can be years, if not decades before people are getting the answers. And I suppose that's something that I like doing is help making the invisible visible, um, for people to get those answers. But there's something too that you said about the nervous system and how you were holding so much in your nervous system. That is something I'd like to touch on because I feel in the work that we do and all health professionals or people that are working with people that have trauma, you ingest so much of it. Mm-hmm. And a lot of people, including some of our colleagues, will say, oh, you know. Just another burnout thing because you know, a lot of this doesn't end up with burnout when we are ingesting a lot of this and holding it in our nervous systems. Mm-hmm. Sorry, everyone who likes to dis burnout, but everyone could get burnout, including yourself if you are a health professional listening to this. Mm-hmm. And when we are ingesting this. Without even realizing you are holding part of that in your nervous system. And even if you like to think that you are like Superman or Superwoman and you are not gonna have any of this, you know, you don't carry any of this on when you are working with other people. You are human and you are going to ingest some of this and then with your own things as well, because. Yes, your own things are going to happen. It's like all these little half done wash cycles imprint on your nervous system, and often it's gonna strike before you even realize it's striking and then your health's going to go down. And I just wanted to make point of that because it leads back to looking at people holistically again, but it's also looking at yourself. In that same manner. And when you said you did that your own method on yourself and you could feel that release of all that stuff held in your nervous system like that is just amazing. It's just amazing. And you finding out your own story as well to help put that together would've been another release on the nervous system. Oh. Absolutely. And I think, you know, you've absolutely nailed it, and I know you and I are big advocates of this holistic, the need to get that holistic picture because both of us, and we've talked about this together openly about our experiences with burnout and the frustration. You know, even recently being in a room with the most amazing people who we love dearly, but feeling like we couldn't even talk about or use the word burnout, because as you said, it was gonna be dissed. Oh, just another burnout coach, or just another burnout thing. What we know is burnout is just the symptom. Mm-hmm. That we've got this. Complex underlying nervous system. And underneath burnout, I firmly believe is this vicarious trauma. Yes. Just as you beautifully talked about, we cannot as helping professionals listen to our client's stories day in, day out, because let's face it, some of those stories are heartbreaking. Yeah. And even if we do the most amazing self-care. The residue of some of those stories just break off and plant themselves in our nervous system. Break off. Yeah. And plant themselves. And if you are in the game, even just for a little while, there's hundreds of stories you might hear, but when you've been in it, like me showing my age for 35 years and working at some of the really intense levels that I did. Imagine how many little broken off bits were implanted in my nervous system that I sort of knew were there, but I thought I could ignore. Yep. And that nervous system collapse occurred, and it's occurred more than once. Yes. That I can put into practice all these amazing things. But it wasn't until recently when I found. The process that I love and you know, that I advocate for all the time is TRE Trauma Intention Release Exercises, which is the most amazing process that helps us release things from our nervous system in a really gentle way by inducing the body's natural response to trauma, which is shaking. So if you go through something. Traumatic, something scary. Like say, say you have a surgery and you come out of the anesthetic, what do you notice usually happens? Mm, yes. There's body movements, there's shaking. Yeah. So we, we shake, we feel cold. And what's the first thing that happens is the beautiful nurse or doctor puts that warm blanket over you. Yes. To stop. Tremoring. But what we know is that's actually our body's way of releasing the stress that our body has just gone through. And we interrupt that someone has a car accident. Yeah. The first thing you see is them putting warm blanket because that person's in shock and they're shaking and tremoring. Yep. So what we. A born to do is to help people and we try to relieve their pain, but what we're actually doing is stopping that tremoring response. That's a natural body response. So the TRE process that I'm trained in actually helps people slowly let that go by inducing tremoring. Mm-hmm. And it's very healing and like peeling the layers off an onion. And that's the other part of my method, which helps treat us holistically, which has made all the difference in my life, but also in in the lives of my clients who I now work with. That sounds absolutely amazing and like I just need to book in straight away. It just, but the comments that I have heard also from, and the, the improvements I have seen also in people that you have worked with, it blows my mind the outcomes that you have and how much you help people with the method that you actually do. Thanks, Nikki. And that's, I just feel like, as I said, when you discover something mm-hmm. That you know works the same as you, knowing that you work with people with invisible health conditions and you need to look at them holistically and not just see the one presenting thing. Yeah. Once we can see that we can't unsee it and we can't go back to what, yes. Society says we should do to treat people. And we're of course still maintaining our ethics. Yeah. And doing things appropriately. But if you know something that works, can't not do it. Exactly. Provided it safe. Yeah. Yeah. And the evidence speaks for itself. Oh yes. Yes. Absolutely. And I think the work that you do. I just haven't seen anything like it, and it's that out of the box and it's looking at things in a different way. And like we've said heaps of times today, it definitely is looking at someone holistically from the mind, the body, the head to the heart, the cut to the brain. It's looking at absolutely everything. And from that nervous system point of view and. I think the nervous system is where everything stems from and so many times it's not even considered. Absolutely. A lot of the time we're in our head. Yes, it's, it's actually scary and as you know, like I said, I. The underlying this burnout and what's been going on in most people's nervous system is this vicarious trauma, this gathering of everyone's stories. And you know, if you watch the news, you also ingest everything that's going on around you. And, and realistically, let's look at anyone who was alive through COVID. The pandemic. No one's ever experienced anything like that before. No matter where you sit on, on the fence on that. The reality is that was a collective trauma. Yeah. Whether you were pro or. Anti, it makes no difference. Mm-hmm. The world shut down and no one had experienced anything like it. Exactly. And that impacted our nervous systems. So you just touch then on the, the three brains, and one area that I love working in, and I know we've talked about before is, is that concept of. The three brains. The head brain. The heart brain and the gut brain. Yeah. And we know, and like you said, you know, we live in our heads most of the time. We go through, we overanalyze and we have this rational thought. We analyze things, we plan things, and the head brain works on creativity, logical reasoning, and problem solving, and. When we've been through some sort of trauma or experiencing an invisible health condition, we think it's in our head because we've been made to feel like, oh my God, it must be in my head. There's something wrong with me. But what we know is our heart, brain, and our gut brain finish the cycle and the heart. Brain is where we feel. Yeah, it's responsible for emotional intelligence, empathy, compassion, and it's also at a deeper level responsible for our values, our beliefs, and how we connect with others emotionally. And the gut brain. You know, we often have that thing of, oh, oh no, I felt it in my gut. Mm-hmm. I just had this gut feeling. We know that that brain has its own neural network and that is associated with intuition, instinct, and taking action. And that is responsible for the body's response to stress, survival instincts and physical sensations. And when people go through trauma, at least one of those three brains disconnects. So, healthy person has the head, the heart, and the gut brain corresponding integrating things, processing things fully. When you've been gaslit dismissed over and over again, and you think it's in your head, normally you shut down the gut brain because you stop trusting yourself. Or if you're in pain and you've been hurt by others, you shut off your heart. Brain because it's too painful to feel. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And the work that I do, that I know you do, is about integrating and reconnecting the three brains, and that is the only way with the nervous system regulation and reintegrating the three brains that we can move forward and get that full, deep, long lasting healing. That's what I think, anyway. I might be deluded, feel. I think it's absolutely powerful what you said and it is just so true and it really is looking at that whole person and peeling back some of the layers of that onion rather than just putting a bandaid on the outer layer and hoping for the best. Exactly. And you know, we know that the medical system does the best it can most of the time. Yeah, yeah. So does the mental health system. Yeah. But. It's not working. No, no, absolutely not. There's an increase in mental health conditions. There's more people more every day becoming unwell. Yeah. There's all these complex health conditions I was really knee deep in the research this week into over the last five years, the increase in complex chronic health conditions and. Particularly the ones with either multi-morbidity or overlapping pathophysiology, which a lot of these invisible conditions, they do have, they have that overlapping pathophysiology and that multi-system component, which just adds to complexity and particularly in females as well. But just over the last several years. People's presentations are way more complex, which then is flooding a system that's already not coping and now it's not coping even more so because of this. Mm. And burnout is at an all time high. Absolutely. And particularly burnout in health professionals? Yes, because they're the ones that are the forward facing, mm-hmm. That have the people with complex conditions. Coming to see them. And let's face it, we're not trained overly well. No. In managing really complex things. And that's not a dis of the professional. No, that's, the system hasn't been set up to cater to such complexity. Yes, it's a gap. It's a gap in the system. It is system that needs support. Absolutely. And I know you're doing some amazing stuff around the Invisible Health Network and the gaps in those systems, so I'm so excited about that for you as well. And for your listeners, how they're gonna be impacted. I think I do a little bit of research every day, um, just a little bit of time dedicated to it and pulling it all together at the moment. So. Eventually it'll be out there and hopefully it can help fill that gap, in supporting people that do present with these chronic health conditions in a way that isn't gonna lead to more trauma or gaslighting or dismissal and improve outcomes for everybody. Yeah, definitely. And that's why I'm really loving the work that you're doing around the invisible CEO. Yes. Your next big project because. You are just one person. I'm just one person. Mm-hmm. As professionals who have significant underlying stories, multiple episodes of burnout, and really highly sensitized nervous systems. Mm-hmm. Yes. And we need to be talking about this. I know, you know, we've talked about this a lot, you and I outside of the podcast, that. We can't stay silent on this anymore. No. We need to be authentic. Yeah. We need to own it and be vulnerable and say yes, you know, we won't treat people unethically, we won't treat people. Mm-hmm. If we are not up for working at the time. Of course not. Yeah, but there's a way to find a balance so we can still work at a pace that works for us. Yeah. And our bodies and our complex nervous systems and still make a difference in the lives of our clients. And yeah, there's no shame in doing that and listening to our body. Oh, absolutely. In a lot of the strategies or the hustle coach culture that's out there. Doesn't align with how our bodies are, are built when we live with invisible conditions or burnout or trauma even. Yeah, exactly. Yes. Now, now we have spoke about such amazing things, but could you please tell the listeners a bit about your latest book that come out, because I think they all need to know about it. Thank you, Nikki. So I think it was October last year. Probably September, I started thinking, oh, I think I need to write another book. Because the first one had evolved and the way I work has evolved. And I thought seeing this pattern with all the people that I'm working with, that there is this underlying trauma and this pattern was too. Obvious for me to ignore and I thought, I think there's like seven clear, I've called them archetypes for want of a better word, seven archetypes. And if we know ourselves really, really deeply to the nth degree, as best as we possibly can, we can also. Work on our own healing and accelerate our path from trauma into posttraumatic growth. And so I've come up with these seven archetypes, a trauma archetypes of transformation, and I've written about them in a book called Brachy Trauma Cycle, and it looks. Really in depth at the seven. I'll quickly, if we've got time, go through the, just an overview briefly of the seven. So there's firstly the Phoenix riser, and that's the person who rises from the ashes after trauma. They've been through the devastation, and they feel reborn with this fist strength and a renewed purpose. We will all know Phoenix rises amongst us. Yeah. Then there's the resilience sage, and that's the wise soul who transforms their pain into deep, profound insight, and they guide others with this grounded sense of calm and clarity. They just have this inner wise knowing, so they're really the ones that are in tune with their gut. Yeah, listening to their gut response. Then we have the empowered trailblazer, and that's someone who's really bold and they will blaze a trail and forge new directions in life. A bit like what you are doing, what I'm doing, really standing our ground in what we firmly believe in. And having the courage and the vision to make a difference. Yeah, and be ahead of the game and take that path forward. Then we have the authentic warrior, and that's someone who has this brave heart, who sheds that mask that we all wear at various times and isn't scared to be vulnerable, to speak their truth with that commitment of really strong emotional strength. Then there's the reflective orchestrator, the deep thinker, who somehow, I'm not the reflective orchestrator, mainly someone who finds order in chaos and they can transform their pain through that deep thinking and reflection, and they can come up with a strategy in a way forward. Then we have the Radiant Alchemist, and that's someone who turns their emotional wounds into. Being creative, seeing beauty in things, meaning, and this personal magic. So there might be someone who creates through art or journaling or something like that. Again, that's not my area of strength. Then we have the liberated Voyager, and that's someone who seeks freedom in break breaking generational cycles and embracing, embracing that life of authenticity. Joy coming from that place of joy. So what we know is that we have all seven of those archetypes within us. Every human being has all of them. One will be the strongest and there'll be three that really deeply resonate, that you lead from as you live your life. And once you can understand all the seven archetypes, you'll find out what your strengths are. What your challenges are as well, because anyone who's that specific archetype will face those challenges. So if you know in advance, I'm a Phoenix riser and my strength is that no matter what happens, I can come back from that. But my challenge is that I usually. Burn myself out'cause I overdo and I will likely be exhausted and fry my nervous system. If you know that in advance, you can counteract that and you can work on your challenges and accelerate your way you grow and turn into post, post-traumatic growth. So I'm, I've had such a great response with people resonating with what's in there and, and yeah. So. It's a really powerful book and one that I'm really proud of because it makes sense. Yes. At a soul level, we can connect with who we are and find a way forward. That sounds absolutely amazing. And how can people find this book or connect with you? Thank you, Nikki. So I,'cause I'm old, I show my age. I am on Facebook, Dr. Natalie Green, like Dr. Dr. Natalie Green and I'm on Instagram, Dr. Nat Green, and I. I think I'm on LinkedIn, but I don't really hang out on LinkedIn much. And you'll find in my bio on Instagram there's a link to the book. Yeah. And also you'll see some of the work I'm doing at the moment around trauma, talking about burnout and compassion fatigue and how a lot of health professionals and helping professionals are really experiencing this and that there's a way forward. Yeah. Is there anything else you would like to add today before we wrap up? Oh, I think for me, the biggest thing is that you matter. Yeah. And it's okay to trust your gut, to trust yourself. If you have an invisible health condition, it's not in your head and it's about being kind to yourself. Knowing that you can go at your pace and don't be afraid to ask for help'cause we can't do this alone. Community is so important. Amen to everything you just said and that there's nothing wrong with you. It's not in your head. Yeah. Don't let anyone tell you. It's in your head. Well, it is in your head, but also in your head, your heart and your gut. Yeah. It's everywhere and it's real. It's not imaginary and that you can have hope. You can get better. Yes. It doesn't mean, it doesn't mean you don't still have the underlying conditions or the diagnoses that you've been given, but there's hope and you can still live a, an amazing life. Yes. Yeah, I think that's a huge, big take home message. Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Nat. It has been so good talking to you today, and there was just such value and so many important things that I think people could take from today, and I appreciate your time so much being here. Thank you so much for having me and yeah, I love being in your world and being part of your inner circle and I feel so privileged and I hope this helps other people'cause there is hope. There really is. Thank you. Thank you.