S3 E2 Master of One: How Agencies are winning with niche SEO & Digital PR in the AI Era

Anna Simpson from Cedarwood Digital discusses how niche agencies win using SEO and Digital PR in the AI era. Learn why the "Master of One" philosophy is essential for building eCommerce brand trust and navigating the 2026 marketing landscape. In this episode, we break down the transition from traditional search to AI-driven discovery. We dive into the specific strategies that differentiate high-performing agencies from those trying to do everything. The conversation covers the rise of "discovery shopping" on platforms like TikTok and how Digital PR creates the third-party credibility required to turn visibility into sales. This framework is designed for brand owners looking to move past simple ads and build a long-term, trustworthy presence online. 

Key Takeaways:

• Specialisation Over Scale: Why focusing on niche areas protects your agency's reputation.
• AI Disruption: How ChatGPT and Amazon's Rufus are disrupting traditional Google Shopping results.
• The "Modern QVC": Leveraging TikTok Shop for viral product discovery.
• Trust-Building: How to secure high-authority placements to validate your brand. 

Timestamps:

00:00 - Introduction to the Online Hustle Podcast

01:35 - Career Growth: From Junior to Head of Paid Media

05:34 - The "Master of One" Philosophy for Agencies

12:38 - Key Marketing Foundation Strategies for 2026

15:13 - How ChatGPT is Replacing Traditional Shopping

21:53 - Visual Search and AI Tools: Amazon Rufus and Lens

25:54 - Discovery Shopping: TikTok Shop as the New QVC

35:23 - Influencer Partnerships and Brand Morals

42:46 - Digital PR: Turning Visibility into Consumer Trust

52:28 - Real-World Example: Using BBC Features for Credibility

56:57 - Future Outlook: What Sellers Should Prepare for Now

01:01:45 - The Road-map: Launching a Brand with Zero Resources 

#digitalmarketing #onlinebusiness #entrepreneur #tiktokshop #amazonsellers #business

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening. This is the online hustle podcast, and today I that way. On my on my right here, we have Anna Simpson who's just giving us a wave. Anna is head of paid media at Cedarwood Digital. Before I get too much into that, Anna, if you can just give us a bit of a background of who you are yourself. I know I've just introduced you, but you take it away and tell everybody who you are.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Anna, yeah, thank you for that. Um so I'm Anna, I head up the paid media department at Cedarwood. I've been here about eight years now. Um so basically I've kind of come from like nothing when I left uni to like building my way up um within the agency. Um I started out doing a bit of digital marketing in just a general sense, um, and then I kind of found my specialism in paid media. It's kind of what I enjoy. Put like a bit of a numbers brain, so it kind of aligns.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Nice. Uh, what originally drew you into the world of digital marketing and how has that evolved into leading one of the most data-driven agencies in the UK, do you think?

SPEAKER_00 1:17

I think, well, it kind of started, I didn't really know that I wanted to do marketing. I actually originally wanted to become a lawyer, just really random. Um, and then at uni, I ended up doing business management instead of law because law just kind of went in so many different directions. I just wanted to do interesting criminal law. So I thought, let me find something that'll like open doors for me instead so that I can kind of figure out what I want to do in the future. Um, so I did business management, really enjoyed it. And then when I left uni, I was kind of like, what now? Like, where do I go? Um, so I kind of just had a look at like what I enjoyed, kind of really enjoyed marketing, did a bit of research into like jobs that are like marketing related. Um, and it's it was kind of like where digital marketing, you know, like digital marketing is kind of everything now, whereas back in eight years ago, it was like it was it was there, but it wasn't as like out there as it is now. Um obviously with digital, like it's only gonna get more digital than what it was then. Um so I just thought digital marketing, let me see what that's about. Um kind of got my first role here at Cedarwood as a junior. Um, and I basically did SEO, I did paid media, I kind of did a bit of everything, which I thought was actually quite good because it gave me like an out, like um understanding of like everything rather than just kind of jumping down one angle straight away. Um, but with SEO, it is more of like a longer term, you don't see the results straight away, it takes time, and I'm not a very patient person, so I needed something that was a bit more like I've done something today and I can see the results tomorrow. Um yeah, I kind of went down the avenue of paid media and just aligned more with my strengths. Um, and that's kind of I just kind of stuck down that route and built up um the team from I guess I was like the only person in the team at the beginning, and now we've got a team of four. So yeah, that's kind of my how I went there. It kind of was a bit of a fell into it and just kind of really enjoyed what I was doing. Um it wasn't really like a it's not one of them things where I'm like, I've been wanting to do this since I was a child. It just kind of seemed to fall into place, but like in a really good way that yeah, I don't I don't hate it, I'm still here, and I feel like it's great because I started back then and like there's so much that's changed over the years that now like I've kind of understood that evolution rather than it just you know coming into it now and having to learn everything. I've kind of seen how it's progressed, which I think is quite good as well.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

I think just to what you say there, it's interesting that um there seems to be a lot of people that are there's two different ways that you can get into jobs and different careers and things like that nowadays. Obviously, you can move sidestep and you can move from one company to another because you've got experience in that company. Um, but then also there's still a lot of people that are starting out from the very bottom and then building their way up. Like you just mentioned, you started as a junior and now you're head of paid media, so that's quite a big step in eight years. But it made me think of uh I saw something recently about Nike's CEO. I never know whether to pronounce it Nike or Nike, uh, but Nike's CEO at the moment, and he um originally started back in 1988 as an intern of the company and spent, you know, is it now 26 or 38 years within the company just building his way up, going from interning to like sales assistant, sales assistant to sales manager to regional manager to manager of sales for a whole uh jurisdiction to then eventually becoming the CEO. So it's it's good that there's like two different ways of looking at it. You know, you can either hire outside talent or you can really nurture that talent from the grassroots to then eventually that person becomes someone who is really high up with the business. But we've been talking a lot about what you've done and how you got there. But for anybody who doesn't already know Cedar with Digital, um, how would you describe what makes this your agency different? Because you know, there's hundreds of agencies out there, you know, local ones, national ones. You from what I understand, you're not a full service agency by design. So why did you choose to focus on SBO, uh digital PR, media only?

SPEAKER_00 5:32

Look, um, so my boss Amanda, so she's director of CDOD, she um has worked for different agencies before, like agencies that do like everything, so kind of like full service, they do like web design, web development, everything that you possibly want under the sun, they they kind of do. Um and I think that when she decided to start her own agency, she wanted to be like a real expert in the things that we do. So instead of just kind of being good at everything, being like really like best in class at the things that we do. And I think sometimes, especially because we're a smaller agency, it means that we can be quite adaptable. So like a lot of our clients like respect that about us, is that we're always on hand to kind of we understand their their businesses. Um, and I think it's just about knowing that we're we're building teams that are really good at what they do so that when we do, like when we do obviously like pitch for new clients, we can we we kind of have that expertise. We're not just kind of flagging our way through it. We we've got the teams that are built up in those specialisms because that's what we want to focus on. We don't want to be just like doing like okay things at everything. We want to be the best at what we do and be able to kind of have that cemented in you know the expertise of the team. You know, we don't want to just kind of add things on if we know that we're not if we know that we're not experts at it, we don't want to just kind of blag it for the sake of it. We want to be able to feel confident in our teams, in like the work that we're producing for our clients. And I think it just kind of built from that. Obviously, digital marketing there expands a lot of different things now. Um, but the main ones that we kind of focus on, and obviously Amanda had the experience in from her past roles as well, um, was kind of like PPC, SEO, and digital PR. So I think that's kind of where it came from, just you know, really focusing in and being the best at what we actually do rather than just, you know, some some clients and some agencies will probably just want to like, you know, if if there's money there on the table, we'll take it. Whereas we don't really like to do that. Like, if if we're not good at something, we'll be very transparent in saying, you know, we're not the right people to partner with because that's not what our expertise is. And I think it's good for like reputation as well, because you know, what we know what we're doing, we're not kind of just making it up as we go along, but we don't ever want to be like an agency that's just trying different things just for the sake of getting extra clients and if that makes sense. We want to like be really confident in that we know what we're doing.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

Yeah, 100%. It's you know, jack of all trades, master of the type of thing.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

That was that was trying to get at when I was trying to say it. I was like, there is a phrase this, but I can't remember what it is, but yeah, exactly, exactly like that.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

So, like having that laser focus, having that specialization into one or a few different niche areas, that is better for you, rather than saying, yeah, we do marketing, we can do anything, and then you know, just kind of dropping the ball a little bit, because then, especially in this industry, reputation is everything and IELTS can be fickle. I'm sorry to any clients who are listening to this. Um, but at the end of the day, like the people who we're dealing with, their business is their baby, and you know, they're trying to create something, nurture something that might be their only source of income. So if they deal with an agency that does a really bad job, of course they have the absolute right to be able to say, hey, you guys messed up with this, I'm gonna move elsewhere. And there's so many options out there that of course they should. And if I was a business owner that was doing this as well, I'd probably move elsewhere. So it's all about reputation, it's all about making sure that you go the extra mile for people.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

Um I think, well, just in that, in that what you've just mentioned, I think a lot of clients that come to us they have had like bad experiences with other agencies, and a lot of people feel like burnt by other agencies and like they've promised them the world. And I think one thing that we do really well is that we we're just very transparent and very honest. And if we don't think something's gonna work, we'll just kind of say that because at the end of the day, like we want it to work as much as they do, and it's not just about you know getting as many clients as possible, it's about finding the clients that we actually believe in and we think you know we can make a difference here. And I think that's what's important to us. I think as a smaller agency, we have the ability to kind of be more integrated with like internal teams of our clients. So like we really like to understand like the workings of the business and how each client, like what their business goal is, not just necessarily their digital goal. Um, and I think that helps as well because as well, as well, it's about like instilling confidence in the team. Like we want our teams to feel confident um when they're to open to clients, and you know, if we're making them do something that they're not 100% on because we've just done it to add it on as a bit of extra income, it's not gonna fill the staff member with um any confidence or build their kind of experience in the industry either. So I think it's kind of like like a two-prompt approach as to why we like that specialism really.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

Can you think of any examples where you have turned somebody away and and what was the reason for that?

SPEAKER_00 10:24

Oh, we turn we turn people away, not like in a bad way, but like if we know that that's not going to be a fit. For example, you know, if someone's looking for like an overarching, like a whole marketing strategy that's like not just digital, it's kind of incorporating all different different media. So like email marketing is not something that we do. So we've turned clients away that have been looking for email marketing as part of the deal because I wouldn't feel confident going in there and being like, this is something that we do, and we've got lots of experience in because we haven't, and I don't want to like false promise that because at the end of the day, I'll just be making it up on the spot, and I don't want to do that because I don't I want to prove provide a service that I I feel confident in. So I think there's there's been multiple times where you know we've we've had to turn clients away, which I don't feel bad about because I want them to get like the best for what they're like trying to achieve. And I think if I don't believe in my like if I don't believe I have the experience to do that, I'm not gonna put myself or the client's money like behind that. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 11:25

Yeah, absolutely. Oh, and what do you think are like some of the best strategies that people should be optimizing? And I suppose like just from an overarching view, because I understand that it's gonna be different depending on what your business is, but you know, if you can pick top three marketing strategies for businesses um going into 2026, what should be the main foundation of what they should get sorted first? Because I'm just very aware that it's gonna mostly be brand owners and sellers that are watching or listening to this. So what what things should they primarily get right as a good baseline that they can then build off after that?

SPEAKER_00 12:00

Such a good question because there are so many answers, and whoever you ask will say it's probably something different. I think depending on budget, because I think that also is a big factor in this. So, like if there's small budgets, then there's a lot of things that you can do in terms of website content, I think is really important. And again, this is not just PPC, this is, I guess, SEO as well. Um, but like your website is like a free, not a free thing, but like it's something that you're gonna have. Um and you can make changes to that for free. Um, so I think you know, having that good website content, I think the thing that's going to become more apparent now is obviously AI. Um, like Google's changing. Uh, we've now got like ads in ChatGPT that's just been launched. I think there's a lot of things that are happening that's kind of like goes against the traditional, you know, what should I what should we do first? Um because I think you know the the fundamental principles of SEO is we want to rank in in first position on Google is kind of what everyone says. But that of ranking number one doesn't really exist anymore because you know, anything that you search for now, you've got an AI overview first. Same goes with ads. Um, I think you know, people have always wanted to be in first position for ads, but again, now we're kind of seeing a change in that as well with AI overviews. Um, so it's it's a change in the landscape, so it's hard to kind of pinpoint this is what you should do. I think you should know exactly what your goals are. I think that is crucial. You need to know, you know, what your profit margins are if you're e-commerce. I think that's gonna become more crucial than ever. I think if it's a lead generation business, um you need to understand that what does a quality lead look like. I think it's all about that business data. And I think if you do, if you are doing advertising, it is about getting that first-party data that is going to be as crucial as possible with like cookies um depreciating and things like that. That first party data is gonna what's gonna be what's kind of like feeding the algorithms with the the things that are important to you as a business. So I don't really think that answered your question. Um, as I've just realized, I just kind of rambled on there. But I think again, it's hard to kind of pinpoint one thing because it everything's so it depends on what the business is, what the what they're trying to achieve, what their budget is. There's so many factors that can affect what that most important thing is. Um, but for advertisers, I'm definitely say first party data. Collecting that and finding a good way to use that is is going to be crucial.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

Yeah, well, when you were saying about like how much it's changed recently, especially with AI, I mean even this time last year it didn't exist where you could do um shopping inside Chat GPT. And I don't mean like physically checking out, but obviously earlier on brought out the um their sort of replacement for Google shopping. And I've talked about this like hundreds of times on here already, so I'm sorry for anybody who's listened to other ones who's gonna hear me repeat this. But um if you think about like I I mean for me, if I was shopping for new snowboarding boots, right, and I said I want um some van's snowboarding boots, size nine, black, um, delivered to Southampton within a week, less than 200 pounds, I could just plop that straight into ChatGPT, and then it's going to bring up a whole list of different ones on the carousel that I can then flick between, which if I were to put that into Google and then somebody had done PPC beforehand, even if it wasn't the most relevant result to my search, that would have popped up before. It might not have shown Van's boots, um, it might have shown Solomon boots, but it might have shown them at £250 because that's what that advertiser had paid for for their results to be first. But that wasn't necessarily relevant to me. Whereas this whole shift now with AI, with just going into ChatGPT and just giving it all of the information possible, it's kind of filtered out those results for me and you've taken away kind of the need for SEO in that respect. Because now you're getting something which is much more relevant to the shopper, which I suppose from a shopper's perspective, is a huge net benefit. But people who have optimised their businesses for SEO, they're kind of looking at it now like, what do I do now that it's on the scene?

SPEAKER_00 16:12

I think it's uh an interesting point. I think a lot of people in the industry at the minute are kind of saying SEO is dead. It's like this thing that's just winding everyone up. Um, and I actually don't agree with that. I think the the thing is with like AI and ChatGPT and um Google's AI Mud and Gemini and all of the different AI bots, it's kind of like a lot of the fundamentals of when people are appearing in those things are actually based on a lot of SEO work that has been done. And at the end of the day, a lot of the things that show up are still super relevant. So I know you pick picked out, I guess, like a shopping example there. Um, if you think about like the contextual relevance of all of that information will have been on whatever, like, say for example, there's different brands that sell, the different like retailers that sell that same brand. They're gonna have to optimize their website to appear for those. So it's not, I don't think the game has changed in terms of, you know, like SEO is dead now and like what's the point in this. I think it's actually all still as relevant. It's just the way that Google and like ChatGBT is showing that information is completely different from just being like, I'm ranking in position one now. Whereas it's a lot more conversational. So if you think about it, at the end of the day, the information that that Chat GBT or Google's AI and road picks up is still from websites. It's not just made-up information. So I think a lot of people panic and are like, oh, like there's no point in SEO, we've we've like invested in it for this long now, but actually it's it's all made redundant. But actually, it's not because it's still the same principles. It's still, you know, people scraping information from different people's websites to get contextual, relevant signals that it's then just kind of reformatting into like a conversational way that's that's like the answers that you're getting. So it's it's an interesting one. I think obviously it's very new. So a lot of people are just, you know, getting trying to get as much information about this as possible. But I don't think that fundamentally the things that we've been doing are gonna change massively. I think the foundations of all those things are gonna be exactly the same, they're still gonna be as important as ever. Um, it's just the way that it the information is like translated now, instead of it just being how we used to see it, it's now in more of like a conversational tone. Um, but yeah, I don't think that I don't think the game's gonna change forever. I think I think the foundations of all the digital marketing and things that people do are still gonna be relevant. It's just about adapting to how that is now being shown compared to how it used to be.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

Yeah. And I just think as well that there's a lot of, as you as you said at the beginning of your answer, there's a lot of noise in the industry like saying, oh, SEO is dead, blah, blah, blah. But that's is almost clickbait as well, because as soon as any big change comes around, you know, everybody likes to uh throw around sort of disparaging information. Anybody is gonna click on something that says click uh that says um SEO is dead because they're like, wait, what? This is like the the whole way that we've been building our business. But if it just says SEO is gonna continue to be fine for the most part, nobody's ever gonna click on that as a as like a LinkedIn post or as an article review or anything. It's like we we all know that like the news has tried to be as salacious as possible to get people to click on it so that um you know they can get ad revenue from it. So that's that's one thing aside. I always think as well that you know these AI tools come out and yes, they are game-changing to a degree, but it takes a little while for the general market to adopt it as well. So something that I'm using is not necessarily the same as something that my dad is using, you know, and he's the early 60s now. So there's still going to be people who are using the more okay, put it this way, you can still buy CDs, you can still buy cassettes, you can also buy all of your music library directly from Spotify. So, you know, there's a wide variety of different uh mediums to get music from, to search for products on. It doesn't necessarily have to be everything is AI, nothing else exists anymore. Like there's good be a fluctuation phase. Um if you speak to grandparents, they probably don't even use Google at all. Maybe they're still looking through the yellow pages to find the local business for whatever services that they need. So, you know, there's there's always gonna be sort of a um a transitionary period, yeah. And during that time, of course, agencies are gonna upskill and go, right, now that this new disruptive thing has come into the market, how can we adapt so that we can then be leaders in that realm as well? So there's always gonna be that sort of gray area moving from this thing to then this next thing in the future. Um, I do still think that a lot of the way that products, at least for e-commerce sellers, are being searched for, has changed dramatically. Um we've seen obviously not just with uh Chat GPT, but also Amazon, people are now using uh Rufus and things like that on their website so that they can search for more relevant products. Um, they've also brought out the Amazon lens tool as well. I don't know if you've seen that. Um where like this this this tank, this mug, if I saw it in the street and then I was just like, oh, I want to get something like that, I could get my iPhone, scan it, and then it's gonna bring up a bunch of different options that are this or similar. Um that's gonna feed directly into my uh Instagram search. So there's there's other neat ways that search is happening, but yeah, as you say, I think fundamentally you still have to be visible on all of these um different platforms. Be it Google, be it Bing, be it whatever, so that people know where to get your products from. And even then, like if I searched for that item on Chat GPT and I was looking for those snowball boots, it's still super unreliable. And I know I'm like throwing it out there as this uh new option that people can use. And it's good for some stuff, but then when you click into it, it it will also acknowledge itself that it doesn't necessarily have all the data. It's like, oh hey Lewis, I found the snowball books that you were looking for. And this is in that size, that's in this size. Unfortunately, I couldn't find black ones in stocks, or here's some red ones. So even then, I'm like, well, I didn't actually ask for red, so why are you showing me? So there's still some instances in the data gone.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

Yeah, and I think as well, just on that, I think, you know, especially with like the in integration of like shopping into like these different um platforms, like ChatGBT, for example, I still think that when people come down to it at this point, and again, like there is that transitional phase. I don't think that it has like fully dominated what it's trying to do yet, because I think, like you say, there are still mistakes, you know, it's not 100% relevant. And the amount of times that I talk to JatGBT, and I'm literally like, no, like you're not listening to what I want. Like, this is not what I asked for. Go back and try again. And it's like, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. And I'm like, yes, do better next time. Um, but like there are there is still that kind of, you know, it's not fully its full potential yet. So I think, you know, even in this phase right now, people will still probably go there for you know inspiration or advice and things like that, but still they will tend to probably still go back to Google or go back to Amazon to make that final purchase. So I think whilst I think they're quite assistive at the minute, they're not like the end, you know, the end goal. I think people will still use, and I think it kind of plays into that, you know, it's not just like everyone just searched on Google. Now there's so many different touch points, whether it be like TikTok, where people are like now saying that TikTok is the new Google, and like to some extent, yes, I agree. Um, to some extent, again, there's probably a big demographic that are not on TikTok. So it's about kind of getting the balance of like different things right and not just kind of leaping everything into one channel, you know. Like I say that, but then also not leaning into everything because I feel like you can be everywhere and actually nothing's working for you. It's about understanding where your target audience is and what their kind of behaviours are and platforms they're using rather than just you know, you've seen something online that says TikTok is now the new Google. But actually, if you look at it, Google still owns like 80% of the market share for searches or something. Don't quote me on that, I just made that up. But it's something that's basically like Google is still like the place to be. So I think it's just about adapting the strategies, understanding, you know, where your specific target audience is, because there are gonna be some people TikTok's gonna be absolutely no good for, but there's some people actually will probably get a lot of revenue from that channel. It's just about you know, really like understanding your target audience and and what they're gonna be searching for.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

Yeah, I completely get you. And I think there's uh there's different optimizations for each platform as well, because we speak with a lot of sellers now who are now using TikTok shop, and it's sort of become uh it's sort of become like the modern day QVC. And what I mean by that is like again, this cup, um, you could be putting that on on TikTok shop and you could be doing a video say like, yeah, this cup is it's made of metal, it's gonna keep you water cold forever. And you you're doing this video where you're kind of demonstrating the benefits of the product in a video format that somebody might not necessarily have been searching for a video on a on a uh Stanley Cup. What's the word of work up juke, whatever? Like a Stanley Cup dupe, like I might not necessarily be looking for that when I'm on TikTok shop, but um you're just flicking through the videos mindlessly. This is coming from somebody who doesn't have TikTok, by the way, but I know it works. But I might just be aimlessly flicking through your videos, seeing what comes up, um, and then buff, you hit with this clip of somebody explaining how this cup works, and then you're like, wow, that's really interesting. I I should definitely go and buy that. And then in TikTok, you can now click directly through to that video to the purchase page and buy it. And it's this whole renaissance of like discovery shopping where you didn't initially know that you wanted it, but because of the way that somebody is demonstrating the benefits of the product, you cannot leave TikTok without buying it. So there's all these different things now where like people are going onto certain platforms for certain certain things. I mean, um how many times have you like been walking around the city? I don't know, you're in Manchester, um, but there's there's places that you know might be a new restaurant that's opened in Manchester, for example, and um there's a queue around the block, and then you'll be like, why are people queuing for this? And then one of the friends that you're with is like, oh, it went viral on TikTok. And it's like, but it didn't go viral on Google, but people are searching for restaurants, for um, you know, activities, things to do on platforms like Instagram and TikTok because they can digest and easily understand what happens there, because you don't necessarily need somebody to walk you through it step by step and explain the benefits. You can just go, oh, I'm searching. That food looks nice. Should we go there? Yeah, let's go there. And to digest that content in a in a simple, easy way because it's you know, audio, uh, maybe it's got like a maybe it's got a viral track with the audio, and it's a little bit of video, and the food looks nice, and you're like, yeah, we'll go there. So the overarching point of what I'm trying to say there is that I don't think it that SEO is dead necessarily, it's just that there's now multiple branches that have come off it whereby you know Google is baseline for I need to find a dentist in Southampton. So I will search for that on Google. If I want life advice, maybe I'll go to ChatGPT for that. Maybe I'll go to Chat GPT for shopping, as I say, for snowboard boots. But then if you want to look for something that's like a fun activity, maybe if I want to go to a trampoline park or I want to go ice skating or I want to um go for a new meal in Winchester or in Bath or London, wherever it might be, I'll probably go to TikTok or Instagram for that. So it's it's almost now as it's like split off into multiple different routes, but the tree itself is still Google. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 28:47

100%. I definitely agree. I think you can kind of hit the nail on the head with that one. I think, especially TikTok, I and this is why I always say I think it depends on what your business is and what you're trying to achieve. I think you know, one viral video on TikTok, um, I'm not gonna lie, I'm really bad for like following things that I see on TikTok as well. Like if I'm going traveling, TikTok give me some recommendations of what I can be doing. I think it's kind of that visual aspect and like it's almost like as well, like a lot of real people telling their real experience of something rather than you know a review on Google. Like, who does Google reviews? I personally don't. It's not something maybe someone who's you know had a bad experience will probably write a Google review to make a point, but it's not something that's like ingrained in what we do. So I think it's almost having that for our generation.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

What sorry? For our generation, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

For our generation. I think it's just about having that and I think it actually comes back down to like trust and like having that, you know, real user experience of someone's been there and this is their experience, so I can trust that more than let's say an ad that's basically just going to highlight all the great things about this one thing. It's like more authentic, and I think that is becoming more prevalent than ever now is that authenticity of what people are showing, even like when we do like, because we do TikTok ads as a bit of um as one of our part of our paid social um service. And one thing that we find is that user generated content performance a lot better than any type of like, you know, put together this really high creative visual ad that looks so professional, but actually it's what people really want is that authenticity of someone else has used this product or been to this place, and these this is their genuine uh review or like their genuine experience of that. And I think that that resonates a lot better with people than than just like a professionally shot image sometimes. I mean, don't get me wrong, professionally shot images and videos and things still have their place. I think again, it's about adapting to what platforms you're using, what is the creative that you're putting out on those different platforms, you know, what is the intended goal of that. Because, like you were saying earlier, yes, people might see um something on TikTok of like a nice restaurant, but at the end of the day, if they're wanting to go there, they're still going to go to Google to look at the menu or to to book. So it's kind of like different channels have to almost like work together. It's like almost like building a pipeline from like top of funnel back down to bottom of funnel, which will, I guess, will always kind of be um doogle. Again, it it depends because I think with TikTok, if you've got like products that are almost like they're not massive, like they're impulse purchases almost. I think that they do really well on TikTok because they're not massively expensive. People can press two buttons and it's coming to the house, which is crazy. And sometimes I have to start myself because I sometimes get like caught up in like people selling me something, and I'm like, I've never ever even considered this before, but now I feel like I need it. Um so it does no, it really is. I remember once I was like, I would never buy a TikTok. No, like we'll never do that. And now I'm like, yeah, yeah, I got when people say, Oh, what'd you get off of my own TikTok shop? Uh yeah, no, it does it definitely does have its place. I think, yeah. It it's just about having like a bit of a cohesive experience, again, just understanding what your audience is, like what their goals are. Like, do they have, you know, do they have the disposal income to just kind of like purchase something quickly off the cuff? If it is, then I think products like that are perfect for TikTok shop. I think you'd have to get the right people because I do again think that that user-generated content is important with that to get people to actually like talk about it and the reasons why, like you said earlier.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

So when you say get the right people, I'm presumably talking about influencers.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

I am, but again, I'm not gonna talk too much about that because that's not my area of expertise, and I wouldn't like to, you know, I wouldn't like to put my uh two pens in there, but it doesn't even have to be influencers. I know a lot of people um that I've bought from on TikTok. I guess these days I suppose you can call them creators, so they are like in the industry of you know putting out videos and they do put out content, but they're not necessarily influencers in the sense of I feel like how we know influencers as being like, you know, like Molly May or someone like that who has like thousands millions of followers. Um but just people that are posting content and I I'm sure they do deals and with businesses that again I wouldn't know because it's not my area of expertise, but it the people that I've bought off TikTok shop from have not been people I know of. It's just about the familiarity of the product and the brand. And I think brand is another thing that's um gonna be quite crucial just in general in digital marketing, because I think brand sometimes gets it overlooked because people are like, well, there's no brand loyalty anymore, like that's not really a thing. And to an extent I agree, but I think especially with like going back to what we were saying about AI and things like that, they like the AI models are gonna want to know about the brands that they're like like um what's the word that they're like putting forward. So like if you're asking for advice on something and a Google and Google's like giving you an answer, they don't want to be giving like recommending brands that have like really bad reviews or like things like that. So I think brand is gonna become more important as well, just overall in terms of like trust, um having like good reviews. I think just having the backing of not just being the website that's saying, oh, we're good at this, but actually having like other people like obviously um like what's the word solidifying that.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

Yeah, no, I completely get you. And I I just think um I'm not gonna dwell on it too much because you said it's not your area of expertise, but I was thinking when we were talking about influencers then. If if you had a time machine and you went back in time 10 years, I know people are doing a lot of recaps at the moment about 2016 versus 2026, and I'm not even gonna talk about how I looked back then. Um it was fashionable to say the least. But if you got a time machine and went back to 2016 now, and then you said the word influencer, I don't think people would really know what you were talking about. So that's the thing that's super new that's come out, and you know, like I I think when everybody was using Instagram back then, it was it was just images, and I think back then you could only just post one as well, not a whole carousel of 20, and then there was no such thing as reels, tick tock didn't exist, uh TikTok didn't exist, so there wasn't any of these mediums for us to be able to discover new things in that way. But I suppose like when you're talking about brand and loyalty and trust, I think that's that's kind of what influences are in a way, aren't they? Because well they've added uh products and maybe they have got a brand deal from this brand that obviously wants to sell their their shoes, their jackets, their cosmetics, whatever it might be, they are entrusting the influencer as their media. They're saying, we like the stuff that you're putting out, we think you would be a good fit for our brand. We've noticed that you've got X amount of followers. These followers, if they like you and you are, you know, linked to our brand in your similar aesthetic or similar morals, then we could partner together and we can sort of piggyback off your audience as a person, sell to your followers. So that's that's why they're doing it. They're using a person as a medium to get access to a new market. Um, but it's just interesting because, like I said, stuff like that didn't exist 10 years ago, and now everybody is has become so used to that, and maybe it's got a little bit tired as well. That now there is the complete opposite. Where it's you know, there's there's no loyalty to that at all. It's just it's it's a it's a complete uh rotating feed where you as you say, like I'm not I might not be interested in that water bottle at first, but somebody demonstrates it to me in a new novel an interesting way, and I'm like, how could I leave TikTok without buying it?

SPEAKER_00 37:10

You know, what was my life without this? Yeah, yeah. It's interesting that you say though about influencers because um actually I think the other thing is just making sure that partnerships are correct. Like, even from a user perspective, I saw some back last year the day about um Molly May. I don't know why I keep talking about Molly May, I'm not even a big Molly May supporter, but um, so she just did a collaboration with Adidas um because she'd been wearing Adidas Sambers for like years. Um everyone was like, Oh, the glasses is such an amazing partnership, wow, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I saw people talking about it on LinkedIn and they were saying, I actually don't think this is a good fit because Molly Mae is very open about how she doesn't really like going to the gym, she doesn't really like doing exercise, things like that, which is kind of the ethos of the Adidas brand or Adidas, if you want to pull it that way. I don't know which way you say it. Um, so yeah, it's interesting to kind of see how other people like perceive that because in one way, yes, it seems like a great collab because she's always wearing their trainers, and obviously she's got a massive following for things like fashion and things like that. So from that perspective, it does seem great. And then you actually look at like the ethos of the brand itself and what that stands for, and then when you look at it from a different perspective, it's like actually that doesn't align at all. So it's just interesting to see how brands adapt to different, like the different goals of what they're trying to achieve. I guess obviously with that one, they've gone down more of a fashion route, whereas actually their main ethos of the brand is more of like a like a gym fitness type uh brand. So yeah, it's just interesting to kind of see how people like perceive different things like that. But I also think good that people now don't because I even find it myself, especially with big influencers. Yes, you you'll get like inspo from like their pictures or whatever, but a lot of the products that they have partnerships with now, I feel like I'm very much aware of. Well, this is the paid partnership, so actually what it's doing probably might not even do what it says it's yeah. I think that's the other thing with like TikTok is like they're creators who don't have massive followings, you know, they're they're just kind of doing things that they probably haven't had like other extensive work done that's probably made their skin flawless because they're they're like almost like micro influencers, so they don't have that like it's almost like they're more authentic because they're just kind of normal people. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 39:35

Yeah, absolutely. So with the Molly Mae thing, it's like uh there's there's two different ways of looking at it from a monetary perspective. I did that in really well from it because you know they're then getting access to Molly Mae's audience, but from a morals and ethos perspective, maybe she's not a good brand fit because she doesn't go and work out, and that's kind of the whole point. It was sportswear, and you know, there's um the biggest one I can think of is Kanye West, right? Yay, um, the whole Adidas partnership with him, and you know, he said some questionable stuff, and then it came to pass where Adidas went, This is probably bad for our brand, because then if we're taking money, even though we're selling billions of dollars worth of Yeezys every year, if we continue to trade with you, we're gonna get a bad rap because of the things that you've said. So then there's like a breaking point whereby the brand has to make the executive decision, even though we are making loads of money, should we continue doing this because we don't want the reputation of this person who has damaged themselves to then damage our grant? So, you know, there's there's also where it can go the opposite way, um, where they've made the choice to to part ways with somebody because of the moral aspects of it as well.

SPEAKER_00 40:54

Yeah, for sure. And I think brands do have a lot of responsibility for that, even more so now, I just think because of the way that the world is, like, there's so much like information sharing now, like, you know, 10 years ago if something happened in America, we probably wouldn't hear about it for like but now you know it immediately. Like, as soon as something happens, everyone in the world knows it. And I think that's another thing for brands to be considerate about is that you know, people will dig up people's past. Like, that's not some like people are bored and will do these things just to like just for the for the drama of it. So I think brands have to be careful as well with who they're choosing to partner with because you know it can it can reflect it kind of seems a bit bad because obviously, you know, it it's not the brand's fault that someone's done or said something bad, but I think you know they do have to do their due diligence, due diligence with that, um, just to kind of protect themselves, because I think that is more so than ever, is becoming a problem with with influencers for sure.

SPEAKER_01 41:55

Uh let's talk about digital PR for a minute because this is something that was one of my touch points. So uh we were talking about building trust and getting visibility. So, you know, getting visibility is one thing, and that can come from SEO, PPC, um, all of that good stuff. But then, you know, once you have got somebody so so let's say you're a new brand, what are you selling? Just give me an idea. Um water bottles. We'll keep talking about water bottles, as well.

SPEAKER_00 42:23

I know it's just because I love to be a night about water bottles. Let's say chairs then, let's say chairs.

SPEAKER_01 42:28

We'll still imagine it's so you're you're a new brand and you've just started selling, uh you're selling in the UK, you're a UK established furniture company, you're now selling new chairs. Um you have started with SEO, um, you've started with PPC, so you're showing pretty high up on Google, right? You've got that part right. Now that you are newly established, you've got your products, you've got your website, and you've optimized for your search engines. How do you then turn that visibility into trust? Like, what do you think? How do you contribute a rundown?

SPEAKER_00 43:03

There's loads of different ways that you can do it. I think with digital PR, obviously it's about so it's two prongs. So one, it is getting visibility in front of your target audience in different like online publications and things like that. But also there is the other side of it where it's what Google sees. So there's like trust with consumers, and then there's also trust with Google, for example. So the way Digital PR works is that you will basically get a link back from another website that's like more reputable than yours. So you have what we call a domain rating, which is like a number between zero and a hundred, and that is how Google basically ranks your website in terms of trust, you know, like how how many links it's got coming into it and what the reputation of those links are. So every website will have a domain rating. Um, and obviously the more reputable, the higher the rating. So, for example, like BBC News or you know, your national publications, like newspapers, things like that, will have a high domain rating. I think Google sees those domains as trustworthy. Okay. Yeah, got it. So what you what you basically want to do is get links from other websites that are higher, like a higher authority than you, because what it tells Google is that your website is like in this like neighborhood with all of these other really highly reputable uh websites, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The goal is to kind of get these high level or high domain ranking websites linking back to your website. Obviously, you you can't just say BVC, can you just put a link to my website on your website? Like that. Um, what you've got to do is you've got to come up with there's loads of different ways, and I don't want to, you know, again, digital PR is not my specialty, but someone in the team will probably watch this and be like, I know you you messed that up. Um, but basically what happens is you have to kind of find a way to get journalists or people to link the website. So you can do things like thought leadership, so you can like put a press release out about something that kind of links to, and it's not directly selling, so it won't be like I'm doing a press release about chairs. It will be about something topical or relevant that you can then link your business back to it. Um, there's other things, so like if, for example, I don't know, there's things about like tariffs, like let's say Trump tariffs, for example, that's very newsworthy. A lot of people are talking about it. If you come from like a website, like a brand who is impacted by that, it gives you something that you can clean on. So from a business perspective, you kind of say to the journalist, this is what, this is what we're going through as our business, blah, blah, blah. I'm an expert in this. I am like, I own this business that does this, and we obviously trade with the US. So I've got that kind of expertise to be able to talk on it, and this is my experience. Again, you can basically send this to the journalist. Obviously, there's a lot of process behind it, it's not just just sending it to a journalist, but what they'll basically do is if they publish that, you can basically say, Can you link back to my website in that press release sample? And so that's one way of doing it. The other way is things like product placements. So, say, for example, you've got like the independent best buys, or they have like best lists, um, which you'll probably see if you like search the specific things. If you buy like new headphones, for example, and you say the best headphones of 2026, you'll likely get a list of different products. So that's the other thing that you can tackle it, and which is a good way in terms of actually getting that e-commerce like selling aspect because you're selling to, I guess, you're selling your product rather than the brand, if that makes sense. So you could go into, I don't know, let's just take, for example, like a garden furniture client. The Indy Best Buyers would probably do like best garden furniture for 2026. If you know that those are the types of like lists that get put out every year, so there'll be like set ones that they do every single year that they'll just update. And you can kind of go back to the journalist and say, hey, these are my this is my product range, this is good because X, Y, and Z, um, blah blah blah blah. And that's a good way of also obviously they're not necessarily going to pick it, obviously, it depends on how good the press release is. Again, that's not my area's specialty, so I don't know what they put in that, but it works. Um, but obviously the digital guitar team obviously deals with all of that. But the basis of it is that you're then getting into these um highly reputable publications, so that the independent is a great one, people trust it, it's uh it's well known. Um, they're obviously linking back to your product in their article um with their like best um buyers, which I guess in a way kind of like ruins the fact that you know it's not always the best, it's just kind of sometimes what people send for them to include.

SPEAKER_01 47:49

I get it, I get it. It's what what you're doing as a customer is uh or as a potential client is you are shopping around and you're going, right, instead of going on a search engine and looking for this product so that I don't get sold to, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna go to the independent and I'm gonna find a list because you know the clues in the name, they're independent. So I'm gonna use this third-party impartial website, and then I'm gonna use their list and I'm gonna base my buying decision off this impartial list of products, and I'm gonna choose one that fits my budget, that fits the needs of me as a customer, only for you to then find out that the list wasn't impartial or independent at all. It's being input.

SPEAKER_00 48:34

Can it be? I don't want to get I don't want to get the legal action against me. It it might be but the products are from can be included from people ascending in press releases. But I guess from the business's perspective, it's good because you get it in those lists, and I think especially for like smaller businesses that have you know really competitive landscapes, so they're they're against big retailers that are really well known, let's say, for example, like BQ or something like that that's like really out there, that you're never gonna rank in first position for like garden chair, let's say, for example, because they're all gonna be taken by these really big retailers who've got years worth of SEO work, they've got years worth of like authority going into that account. You're never gonna rank them in those, you know, aggressive, not aggressive, but those competitive positions on Google. You just never, like, no matter how hard you're trying as a small business, you're never gonna get there. So this is a good way of getting into those top positions. Yes, it's not directly your website, but you but the independent will probably rank quite highly for terms like that, or like Best Guard, Bench, or whatever, like things like that. So it's about getting your brand in places that you probably, no matter how much work you do, you're never gonna get into position one for that because it's it's just kind of one of those things that there are certain terms that you're just not because there's too many reputable companies in that position. But by being in those like product placement lists, you're able to still get that visibility. What people will be clicking on those top couple of listings. Um, and again, that has that kind of commercial aspect as well because people will be looking for it, they'll be clicking on like the independent, for example, the best list. They see your product, they can then click through. So, A, you've got the authority from Google linking to the independent, which is obviously great. But then also you've got the customers who are looking for that, clicking through to the website to then potentially purchase if that's obviously after the research that they do, if that's what they want to do. So that's how kind of digital PR works in a nutshell. I hope I didn't butcher that. Um, but basically it's it's too kind of after that explanation. So now it looks like you know what, I'll take that. Um, but yeah, it's about Google's understanding of the website and you know what it thinks that you're related to, or you know, if you've got reputable companies linking to you, it kind of boosts your trust, I guess. Um so it has that sense it, that side of things, but then it also has the side where you know you are getting in, you know, you're getting your brand out there. It's like brand awareness. So, you know, in things that people are reading or like you know, topical conversations, if the brand is popping up, it's about that like brand recall. Like I was saying back at the beginning, about brand becoming important, it's just another way of getting your brand out there, especially when you don't have massive budgets. Um, just about that, you know, people being aware of the brand and hearing about the brand, because I think even if it's not relevant to what you're looking for now, you know, in the future, if you are then looking for it's those like brand recalls that might trigger you to think, oh, I remember reading about that brand somewhere in like a reputable uh publication. So it it almost has that element of trust within it as well. Sorry, I rambled on for a very long time there.

SPEAKER_01 51:37

Not a worry at all. It's um it just made me think of a couple of different things. Number one is that uh digital PR is definitely working on me. The reason I say that is because um one of the other podcast one of the other podcast guests that I've recently reached out to, I found him because his company was recently featured in a BBC News excerpt. Uh and they do like wholesaling of products. Um and there was an article that came out about you know them being a new business and the way that they've um taken something that isn't currently on the market and how they've sort of exploited this niche and how it's a really good, unique, novel idea. And I only came across that not because of this company's marketing, but because I saw it on BBC. So, as you say, it building credibility for the company because there is the backing of this really reputable organization behind it. My second point would have been um that in a way it kind of links back to influencer marketing in a way. Uh, the reason I say that is because, again, if you use the the Molly Mae and Adidas example, there's going to be some people who that's probably not a good one, actually, because a lot everybody knows Adidas, but the whole reason why Adidas wanted to partner with Molly May is so that they can get specific access to her audience, and it's kind of like the whole reason why this company that I've reached out to for a next podcast has decided to put an article on BBC is because everybody knows BBC, so they're probably going to be more visible. So it's it's kind of a similar thing, but just in a different way.

SPEAKER_00 53:16

I was gonna say the other thing that you can do with it as well is that you say, for example, you're a smaller business, you've not got masses of reviews, because I feel like again, reviews are hard to come by, but again, very important for new businesses as well, or like smaller businesses, because again, it's that trust and that credibility. But the other thing, if you do get into these publications, is that you can start putting those logos on your website and being like as featured in blah blah blah. And again, that and that obviously linked back to the article because again, that shows, you know, even if someone hasn't seen it on those websites but has come across you a different way, for example, and they're looking for those trust signals because maybe they've never heard of you before, you know, if you can clearly say, well, actually, we've been featured on the independent, the BBC's cover does, like that in itself, and you can link back to those articles, that in itself builds trust because you're thinking, all right, well, it's not going to be a really dodgy company, it's like these big reputable publications are like writing about them. So it's kind of like win-win from that perspective. Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 54:16

Yeah, it's just it's just not something that I'd ever really considered. Um, but you do see it being implemented a lot, especially when you're like shopping online. You'll see it with um things that you've been in real life as well, won't you? You'll see like uh I've I've got one particular place in mind in Manchester, a little burrito bar that used to have a picture up on the wall from when they were on like BBC Good Food and like Ainsley Harriet went there. Um stuff like that. It's like, oh, these guys must be pretty good if if Ainsley Harriet's come in to cut with us. So it's yeah, it's it's it's that. It's like being a part of this network, this community, oh look who we rub shoulders with type of thing.

SPEAKER_00 54:57

I think it's it it it goes back to that like I think trust and authenticity and like just being real is more important these days as as marketing than it is to have like some really shy, polished. I think people want that like raw, like real reviews and things like that, where you know it's not just oh this is our polished, shiny version of us. It's like actually this is the real life people, you know, people are interested in us, people like we talk. Do you know what I mean? It's about being like part of that do you know I don't know what the word I'm looking for, but you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 55:33

Yeah, that that space, that bubble, that ecosystem is a good knowledge to throw around. Um I've got two more for you. Um so yeah, as we as we're starting to like wrap up here, what is on your radar for 2026? Are there any are there any big shifts in SEO, paid media, or um as you say, digital PR that you think sellers should be preparing for right now? Um are there any sort of tidbits of information that you can give us, uh like in uh industry info?

SPEAKER_00 56:09

I mean, I wish I had some. I think the biggest thing from my perspective, I guess, for all digital marketing, especially on Google side of things, is the shift from like what we normally see as a normal search results page with you know you ads at the top, organic listings. I think this is going to be the biggest change this year. I know it's already launched in the US, um, but they're now doing um ads in AI. So at the minute they're not doing that in the UK. I think it will get rolled out very shortly. So I think something to be mindful of if you are UK-based, things that I've like, I guess like hints and tips that I've kind of pulled together based on the information that I've got currently for both Paid and Nesio is that on like your website content is going to be uh more important than ever because you know you're wanting to answer, like people come to these AI chat bots for advice, they come for questions, they come for things like that. So, where Google and all the different AI bots are pulling the information from is from your website. So you need to just make sure that you're being as clear as possible and concise as, you know, if you're an e-commerce seller, what are the pain points of your audience? You know, what um what are the questions that they're asking on a regular basis? You can use like uh people also asked is like a website where you can find like what the most common queer like search questions are based on a certain topic. Um so if you can kind of be the person that's answering those questions when ChatGPT or Google's AI mode is gonna be answering those questions, it's gonna be searching for the answer. So if you've got that answer ready, you're more likely to serve in those formats. Um I think that also goes on to ads as well. So I think with Google Ads, um, and I'm not sure how the ChatGPT ad network is actually gonna work yet. So I need to do some research into that myself. Um, but I definitely know from Google's perspective, um, it will be looking at things like trust signals, it will be looking at things like how good, like how good it can categorize your products or your business or the brand, because again, it just wants to, it wants advertise that's gonna help it answer the questions that the user is asking. So if you can kind of categorize yourself within like very clearly so that the I the AI bots can clearly understand what it is you do, where you kind of fit into that, I think that's gonna become more important and less going to be less like keyword-based and more like answering questions, being part of that conversation and being like assistive to the AI bots in that in that way. So I think that's definitely something that we as an agency are looking into, kind of like making sure that we foundations for that set up. Um again across SEO and PPC. I think SEO and PPC are becoming quite intertwined um in 2026, probably more so than ever. Um, so I think you know, working together is is a good way to kind of tackle those big changes that are coming. But yeah, I think advice for anyone is just, you know, the foundations are what's gonna get you through all of the different changes. You know, things like making sure your landing pages are good, making sure you've got you understand your audience like fully, like what are their wants, needs, what are their pain points, what are they, what questions are they asking? These are the things that we need to know more than ever. Um, and then just make sure you've got content on the landing pages. I think that's gonna be that is where all of these AI bots are getting their information from. So if you've got nothing on your landing page, how is it gonna show you for anything? You need to make sure that content is good. Um, and yeah, just make sure you've got first-party data. Like I know Rad's done about that earlier, but I think especially for ads, that's gonna be kind of crucial. Um and yeah, that's kind of my top tips for what we're focusing on. Um, I think it's gonna be the biggest change that we've seen in a while. So I think, yeah, just kind of make sure that everyone's understanding what what is actually coming and how we can adapt to those things. But I think, again, I think the foundations are what's gonna get us through it. I don't think anything massive is gonna change. Like I said earlier, I don't think that the fundamentals are gonna change. I think it's just about understanding how how you're gonna be served in a different way to what you've traditionally been served, both in, I guess, organic SEO and um paid media.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:20

Okay. So with all that in mind, then uh we always close out with the same question. And I feel like you've built a good foundation for it already. So it's not gonna be uh it's not gonna be something that's gonna completely derail you. But if you had to, so completely hypothetical. If you had to start your own brand right now, this this coming weekend, uh, with absolutely no resources whatsoever, you've got an idea, you've got a dream, you've got a product in mind, maybe. Uh, what would be the first thing you would do to ensure a successful launch?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:58

I think the first thing that I would do is really understand where you sit in the market. So, like, and this is gonna be a bit like wishy-washy, but I think you can't market anything until you really understand where you sit in the market. So that's what who your competitors are, what your USP is that's different to the competitors, what target audience is and where they are. So, like understanding what channels, you know, you need to understand where the target audience is, what kind of things they're searching for, to understand where to like launch your brand. So I think really understanding and not, and it's not just like, oh, well, it's gonna be like women at like between 25 and 30. It needs to be like in depth for what are the things that they do, like what things are they interested in, where are they searching online, you know, what other things are they interested in? So it's not just about kind of what you're interested in, but actually build it, and it's something that we do, so we kind of build audience personas of people. So it could be that you have a really wide range of a target audience, so not everyone's gonna be the same, but you need to understand or like kind of bucket people into certain personas, so you could have like an older male and what what kind of things that they're interested in, or you could have a younger, a younger female, for example, they're gonna be so completely different, but could still be part of your target audience. So it's about really understanding those differences and kind of what they're interested in and what they're searching for, what their needs are, and then also understanding who your competitors are because there are gonna be some brands that want to launch and you your competitors are gonna be really big retailers that you're never, never going to be able to compete to the same extent. So it's about kind of finding those pockets of like competitiveness. You do know what I mean? So it's about like really understanding the market so that when you actually launch or when you are like choosing a channel to go down, you've got a really solid understanding of why you're doing that and why it's gonna be effective. Because there are some businesses that you know are always gonna be competing against really big retailers that have budget that goes on for miles. That's not gonna be the case for a lot of smaller businesses, so it's about being strategic in who you're targeting, why you're targeting them, but actually getting that understanding before you start because a lot of people just like right, let's just do let's just put money into Google Ads or let's put money into Meta because additionally that works. But actually, you need to kind of have be a bit more strategic in those in those senses and just really understand the overarching goals first, and then you can kind of really hone in on those areas. I thought that was a that was a good great, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:37

So where where you sit in the market, who the people are that you're trying to sell, where your competitors are and what they're doing, and what are your USPs, what is your niche, what is your um benefit, and why should people buy it based on the aforementioned data that you have?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:58

Testing is important, but I'll always say that to make sure you make sure you're testing everything at all times. Look at that.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:06

That is I I couldn't think of a better way to wrap it up nice and succinct. Um Anna, before we go, where can people find you? What should they be contacting you for? And if they want to learn more, how can they learn more?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:19

Yeah, well, I'm on LinkedIn, Anna Simpson, head of paid media at Seedwood. Um, so please send me uh a connection. Um what you should come to me for, anything paid media, if you need any help, um advice with that. Also, we've got an amazing SEO and digital PR team. So if you're in the market for any of those services, please again just get in contact with me. I can put you in the right direction of the person to speak to.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:43

Hey, listen, absolute pleasure having you on. Thank you so much for having your chat with us. And if nothing else, I mean I came away with a better understanding of everything that you do. And uh, if I'm launching a brand, I'm gonna steal some of those tips. So thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:57

Well, make sure you cut me in with uh 10%.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:00

I'll give you a slice of the profits, don't worry.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:03

Thank you, no, thanks for having me on. Thank you so much. Have a good one.