Episode 155 | Tragedy Leads to a New Focus and Exciting Career - Dawn Grooters

When life forces a change you never saw coming, you have two choices: resist it or reshape your life around it. 

That’s exactly what this week’s guest, Dawn Grooters, did—and what she helps others do, too.

In our conversation, Dawn shares how she rebuilt her career with intention, empathy, and heart. She offers practical insights on how to build rapport over the phone, serve customers without burnout, and grow a business from a place of purpose—not pressure.

We also talk about what it means to bring your whole self into your work, and how honoring your own story can become your greatest business asset.

🎧 Tune in to hear Dawn’s journey—and leave inspired to rewrite your own.

About Dawn Grooters:

Dawn Grooters is the founder of Broken Vessel Sales Solutions, a company specializing in relationship-based inside sales for the gift and home industry. With over 20 years of experience, she evolved from being a buyer to a top-performing inside sales rep, generating millions in revenue and later mentoring others to achieve similar success.

She developed a sales approach rooted in empathy and value-driven communication, avoiding cold calls and pressure tactics. Also hosts the Inside Gift & Home Podcast, where she shares actionable strategies and insights. Her mission is to help businesses grow through genuine, empathetic connections and integrity-based sales practices.

Resources:

Website

LinkedIn

Facebook  

Instagram 

Check out Kay's Uncopyable Sales Secrets Video Series: https://www.beuncopyable.com/sales-course

Want to be more successful, make more sales and grow your business? If so, you'll love this podcast. In this show, I (Kay Miller, aka "Muffler Mama," interview superstar business women from all industries. Their experience and advice will give you specific tools you can use to crush your goals like those grapes in my favorite "I love Lucy" episode. I earned the nickname “Muffler Mama" when sold more automotive mufflers than anyone in the world. Besides being a #1 Salesperson, I've been a successful entrepreneur for over 30 years. During that time, I (along with my husband, Steve) have generated 8 figures in revenue for our business. Besides hosting this podcast, I'm an author, speaker, coach, consultant and most importantly....Kelly's mom.

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Transcript

Today's guest is Dawn Grooters. Dawn is the founder of Broken Vessel Sales Solutions and the host of Inside Gift and Home Podcast.

After a successful career as a field rep, Dawn transitioned transitioned into inside sales following the heartbreaking loss of her son, turning her personal journey into a mission to help others sell with empathy, purpose, and balance. With over 20 years in the gift and home industry, she now teaches sales professionals how to grow revenue and relationships without burning out or selling out.

Dawn, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having me. Kay. I really am glad to be here. Well, the feeling is definitely mutual. Um, I am touched by your story and we of course have to hear this backstory that any parent listening, if they haven't been through it, luckily I haven't, probably cannot imagine what that would be like to lose a child.

Um, but you took that and made. Some changes that never would've happened without that. Yeah. Tragedy. So, yeah, I I'd like you to just start with that, what happened, uh, before you can tell us where you started. Yeah. And then that transition, really, this is all about you, so let's, yeah. I'll let you take over.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you. Um, so yes, I started my career after graduating college. I was a buyer, so I had, um, graduated with a fashion design major and fashion merchandising. Went into the buying world, um, was a buyer for about six years and, um, was interested in sales 'cause I've worked with sales reps as a buyer and moved into a sale, a field sales rep job.

Um, so I traveled the state of Iowa selling products, um, up from a variety of different brands to retailers. And so I loved that job. I got to. Not be in an office anymore. I got to visit amazing retailers, see their stores. I love that kind of product. And so I got to do that for about three years and, um, really enjoyed that job.

Worked really hard at it and was successful in it. And then, um, I was out on the road one day, um, and my, uh, my friend, uh, my friend called to tell me that, um, my, one of my children, my son was in the hospital and it didn't look good. And so I got in the car and I drove. And about halfway through my drive, my husband called to tell me that our son had passed away.

It was completely unexpected. Our son was 11 and a half months old, had just started walking and, um, we lost him. So, um, when that, I, I just have to say, I'm so sorry. Again, we're talking about that, that's just something no parent should ever have to go through. Yeah. Yeah. And, um. It was something that I didn't, you never expect to have to go through that.

Um, and when it happened, luckily, I, I was grounded in my faith. So, you know, prayed out to God to save him. That was not the answer that he provided. But I also had faith that no matter what was gonna happen, he would take care of us. And so, um, after that happened, I had a three and a half year old son as well.

And, um, I knew that I didn't wanna go back out on the road, that I couldn't do that anymore. I wanted to be at home. I needed to heal, I needed to strengthen my faith and be home for my family. Um, I also found out about a month and a half later that I was pregnant with our daughter, who's now 13. And so I knew I di I would, didn't wanna go out on the road, so I went to my manager at the time and said.

Um, I, you know, I'm gonna have to quit. I don't wanna go out on the road. And she had said, well, we're thinking about starting inside sales, would you wanna do that? And I was like, well, it keeps me at home. It's sales. I still get to talk to retailers. I'll give it a try. It was just literally like, I'll give it a try and see what happens.

They gave me a list of customers. They, I had a phone and I had a computer. And so I started making phone calls, didn't have any training on how to do it. I just knew from my experience and with retailers kind of, you know, I knew what their stores kind of looked like and I knew, um, how to build relationships with them.

And so I, that kind of started to transfer those skills into inside sales. So I started calling them. I would ask them questions. I like to ask a lot of questions. So, you know, I'd be like, you know, what's working in your store? How's traffic? Like, just building up that rapport with them. Um, I. I also made a lot of mistakes in all of that where people hung up on me.

They, you know, like a lot of different things. I made a lot of mistakes, but, uh, kind of learned from them. I'm a quick learner and so I learned what not to do and what to do, and started to generate success in that. Um, I started to have customers calling me back. I had customers, uh, reaching out to me. I was building, um, sales and ended up within a couple years writing a million dollars of sales just through calling customers on the phone.

So I had success with that and built on that. And then, um, I did inside sales for seven years. I just, because I was at home, I was raising my kids at home. They didn't have to go to daycare anymore, so I had my daughter on my lap when I was writing emails and when she was taking naps, I was call calling customers.

And so I was. At home, enjoying the fact that I could talk to retailers, sell them products that I still loved and enjoyed, but able to do it from home. Um, and so I did that for about seven years, moved into some key accounts, and then in 2020 the company I worked for, um, let me go during COVID. And then that's when I decided I was going to start my business.

And, um, I had a lot of customers that, and clients that were like, Hey, you know how to talk to people over the phone, can you help me? So that's how my business started. I. Uh, well, good for you on a lot of levels. Um, I wanna, I took a few notes as you could probably see. Yeah. Um, first of all, I've been in sales, marketing, always on the selling end, my whole life of my career.

And I remember sometimes when I was actually a, I kind of just did a volunteer manufacturer's rep before I got a job because Yeah. Um, I needed some type of experience, but we would go in and there'd be all these buyers sitting in a room. Mm. And then one seller, I thought, oh, I wanna be the buyer someday.

I wanna hold the, you know, stick over the salespeople. But you went from being buyer to being a sales rep, so you obviously were okay with that and probably had a lot of insights because you have had people call on you and sell you. Yeah. When you say you failed some because you were hung up on. One of the things I like to say is you have succeeded if you get hung up on, because that is something you have to go through.

And then you have to even more importantly, pick up the phone again. So you get, you're hung up on, it's not the end of the world. And of course in your situation, you're probably like, that's not the end of the world is an understatement. Absolutely. Hang up on me all the time. I don't care. So, so maybe that built some toughness in you, but you had the perspective of a buyer.

Yeah. Which of course you don't wanna be sold at. Um, yes. And then you had, uh, you know, you had, um. The resilience to, to call people on the phone, cold calls, and then COVID, of course. Were were the calls that you made mm-hmm. Or were they cold calls some of them, or were you had a list of existing accounts?

How did that work? Yeah. Usually it was existing accounts that maybe had ordered, but um, they were dormant. So they were, you know, a year, two years dormant. Um, they, so sometimes it was that, sometimes it was an open territory, so the sales rep that was in that territory left, went to another job or left for some reason.

And so in the meantime of hiring a new person, I would call on those retailers to say, you know, like, during this transition, I'm gonna be here to take care of you, so we're not losing sales while a rep is not in that territory. So it was a variety of different projects that I worked on mm-hmm. When I was doing insight sales.

Okay. Um, interesting. So I. As far as skills that you feel like made you more successful at connecting. Mm-hmm. I know you said you asked a lot of questions. That is the biggest problem I see. Or at least one of them. Yeah. I, so I'll say three different ones that sometimes come into mind, but it sounds so obvious, and yet we like to talk.

Yeah. I'm looking at my fathom, which I just turned off the screen. It says my talk time is 70%, and I'm interviewing you. I'm a salesperson. I love to talk. So, so how do you I am, I'm also naturally curious person. I, I consider myself to be. But how do you get yourself to really. Ask questions and develop the rapport that gets them to answer them.

Do you have any phrases or questions or methods that you can share? So a lot of the things when it comes to insight sales one, you know, social media is really big right now. So I think it's always good to research that customer first. Like, I wanna see what they're posting on their social media to see, you know, maybe what collections they're purchasing.

Maybe they bought a new candle line, or I wanna learn about that customer and then I can ask questions from there. So, um, that's one way to do it, is to research, but then ask those questions and I start with usually like an overline question. Um, and I will say like a main question, so how is business going?

And then I'll dig a little deeper into some more clarifying questions and say, okay, so if business is going well, what's working? What are the categories that your consumers are purchasing? And then if they, you know, they'll tell me some categories and then I'll say, okay, so you know, is the price points is, are the price points good for you?

Or is there certain price point you like to stick within within those categories? So it gives me, then those, asking those questions give gives me the answers to direct them to the right product. So if I don't ask those questions, I might just go in there and start talking and sell them something they don't even need or want or that would sell for them.

So I have to ask those questions first to direct them to the right product because that phone call is so short that I need to get to the right product quicker. And so by asking those questions, I get there. You know, that again, is something that salespeople don't do. We've all had those experiences. I've had several recently where a salesperson comes to the house, we had a, an HVAC problem.

Mm-hmm. Just started talking, stop talking, talking. Didn't know, like you said, you have to find out what you're even supposed to talk about. Yes. You need to get to know that person. Mm-hmm. And it's always kind of a little finesse, uh, as to whether you, where you stop at the nice to get to know you. Yes.

How's business, whatever. And then getting drilling down. But we all have that skill. We all have that skill. I believe if we just tune into that. Yes. I love your comment about calling on dormant accounts. Mm-hmm. And as you know, we call the target market. Your ideal target market is your moose. Yeah. And I think a lot of times people who are in sales, marketing, business owners are looking out in the, the world, you know, looking on social media, wherever, where is our moose?

Where are they congregated? Well, your current customers are your very best moose. Yes. So if someone's dormant, they've already done business with you. Maybe not personally, but they know your company. Mm-hmm. They know your product line they've made, they've said yes, yes. Good on you. Yes. Yeah, and those are obviously, there's a reason why they didn't buy.

Again, it could be a really simple reason they ran outta inventory and didn't realize they ran out of inventory and didn't buy. It could be that they had a horrible experience, but you don't know unless you call and ask. And so that's one of the ways to find out like, is there an issue within a company?

Is there an issue with a product by calling and asking? And you're not gonna ever get that feedback if you don't call and ask. You sound like you really know a lot about sales and you should really help others. Wait a minute. You do. Yes, we're do gonna get to that. We're gonna get to that. But those are all very wise observations.

Yeah. People are afraid to, you know, we're all kind of shy, I guess. Our appearance always said, don't talk to strangers. So you have to get over that little hump, but there's nothing gonna happen unless you do. So, yeah. I'm a, we talked a little bit about AI before the call because Yes. A little plug for me.

We, I am giving an AI webinar with my friend Kinzie Haynes, and, uh, we talked about AI said, how much do you use it? And you said all the time. Yeah. So, so do I like for you, I used, you know, in the past I would've had to do more research, even though you sent me information. Mm-hmm. I still want to learn more and just go to ai.

I can find so much mm-hmm. Out. And so I suppose for you. As you are selling or, and helping your, your new people? How does AI play into that? Yeah, so, um, we use AI a lot. Um, I think it is really helpful for when we are researching customers because I always, I train people, you know, like the, before you even make the phone call, you should research the customer.

So whether it's through their social media, um, you know, putting in their name and their business, you're gonna find out what social media handles they have, what, what's on their website, if they have a website, what products do they sell, what brands do they sell. Like all of that information is really helpful for us then to go in and say, okay, maybe they have this candle line, but we have this candle line of accessories that would work well with it.

So we can actually speak to that when we're on the phone call to say, you know what? It looks like you've purchased on your website, it shows that you've purchased candle, line X, um, and we have these, this candle line of accessories that we could, that compliments it really well. So it helps us then to know more about that customer.

So again, we're more targeting. What we're selling, because we can't just throw a catalog at them or throw a bunch of products at them and expect them to choose something right away. That's not gonna work. But this gives us a little bit more target to say, oh yeah, okay, this is gonna work for us. Maybe we'll take a look at this and then we can move forward with trying to, um, close the sale.

Right. So you do use AI now for that as well? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, uh, one of the things, you know, we're all about being uncapable. I noticed as I was reach, researching you, I went to your website. Yeah. And I think in a very lovely way, you talk about your path and losing your son. Mm-hmm. And how that's affected you.

Of course, it's gotta affect every part of you all the time, but I like the fact that you do have a story, a meaningful story that sets you apart, makes you incapable. It's something you never would've chosen, obviously. No. But it does separate me, you from other people, and it gives you the chance to tell people, even on your website, what kind of a person you are.

Mm-hmm. How that happened, how that, what that meant to you. How you had to call on your faith, and how that caused you to pivot. We'll say pivot our favorite word. Yeah. Um, but I like the fact that being personal tells me that you are also willing to reveal. Some of what you are and what's important to you.

Yeah, that's great. That really is important in rapport, don't you think? Yes, yes. Absolutely. And that was something I think I found un unexpectedly in building rapport with the customers that I would call. Um, there was one phone call that I had done where I called a lady. It was about candles that I was selling some candles.

Um, and you could tell that she was outside, like the wind was blowing through her phone and I said, is this a good time for you? And she's like, I'm actually at my son's grave site and I like just what you did. Like I sunk down in my chair and I said, oh, I'm so sorry for your loss. I will, you know, I'll give you back a, a call back another time.

And she said. No, that's okay. You know, you can tell me what you need to tell me. And I just said, well, why don't you just tell me about your son? And so she started to tell me about her son, and then I ended up, ended up telling her about my son and that I had lost him. And she was, we both just sat there like it was, it wasn't about candles anymore.

That was not, that was not what that call looked about, about being human, right? It was, it was about being human. Two broken-hearted moms that experienced different, our experiences were different, but we were two broken-hearted moms that we could share. We ended up ending the call. I've got tears running down my face and, um, I ended up calling her later more about candles.

But that was some, that was a way for me to, that that moment was when I realized this was something that. I could, I could still connect with someone over the phone. I could build that relationship in a way that I don't know that I realized it before that phone call. And it was, it's not phone numbers.

They, it was never really phone numbers to me. But it's not just dialing phone numbers. There's people, they all have stories, they all have, um, they all need to build relationships with people. And so that's, that was my goal in connecting with those people, not to just sell them product. You did so many things right there, and hopefully I've made some notes I can remember.

But, uh, one thing I like, and this is a little controversial, is this a good time for you? Mm. I like to ask that question. Some people say, no, just get right in there because you never may never have a chance. Mm-hmm. Well, I think it's rude and if someone calls me and starts saying stuff when I don't have time, first of all, why did I pick the phone?

Yeah. But, but really I like that question of do you ha have time? So she said, well, here's where I am. Mm-hmm. And. She said, but you can talk to me about your candles. Mm-hmm. And the first thing you didn't do is when she said, I lost my child. You didn't say, oh, I did too. Yeah. No, you said, well, let's not talk about candles.

Let's talk about your son. Yeah. So you're, you're. I, you, you know, you, you had that in your, you know, on your mind, but you honored her by asking her first. I think that's wonderful. And so then you of course did have more of a relationship than you may have not talked about candles till later. Mm-hmm. But you had that and then, you know, had that bond.

So I like those few points I made are very good or very strong. You did good. Well, and I don't, I will say, I don't always say, is this a good time? But I also try to pick up on cues like that you can hear. So I heard the wind going through that. So like, if you're outside, maybe you're carrying groceries.

And even though she answered a phone, like there, there's a time for me to be able to have a conversation and sometimes there's not. And it, it would be a disservice for me to be like, Hey, I'm gonna sell you all these candles while your groceries are, your hands are full of groceries or something like that.

So it's paying attention to those cues. And that's why I asked that question. I. Well, that's a good point because I think that is a lot. So much of sales is, is reading the other person mm-hmm. The situation. Yes. So they might, if they sound like they've got all the time in the world, you might just start talking.

Yes. But if they're rushed or something's going on or what Yeah. Yeah. What, what do you want? Yes. You don't wanna start there. Exactly. Or you hear like a store full of people. Yeah. That's not a good time for me to try. You sell you something you wanna sell. They, that store, um, retailer wants to sell to those end consumers.

So that's not a good time for me to try and sell more candles. Exactly. So, so you had a few things that we could discuss. Uh, one is years on the phone making calls to retailers, which pretty much we've, we've set. Mm-hmm. Or we talked about the second one, which is so incredibly important. And I think people think of this as a soft skill that you don't absolutely need for sales, but it is the mindset shift.

Mm. And that is so important. Uh. We're a big golfing family. We watch golf all the time, and so many times the golfers will say, oh, I've gotta work with my mental coach, or my psychologist, my sports con psychologist. So tell me about the mindset shift that you've made and how we can tap in on into that too.

Yeah, yeah. So I think, you know, like mindset is huge when it comes to inside sales. So when someone hangs up on you or you either have a negative phone call or you have a setback or, uh, an obstacle to overcome, it can be really easy to, to, like you said before, not pick up the phone. And so it's. The mindset shift has, has to happen in how you're providing the value to those people.

It's not, you know, some people are like, I don't wanna bug them. I don't wanna nag them. It's not that. If you have value to provide for them, then that phone call's gonna be val valuable to them. So whether it's a promotion that you're gonna tell them about, so saves them money or new product that's gonna sell really well in their stores, those are value points.

And so instead of looking at it in the mindset shift of, or the mindset of like, well, I'm nagging them, I'm bugging them. Switch that mindset to what is the value you're gonna provide? Don't just call to call, call to provide value to them. And I think that's a really important shift in a, in their minds.

And then as a, in a sales rep mind, especially today, I feel like I. The way my story has happened. I didn't anticipate any of this, how it would come up, but like being a field sales rep, I understand how burnt out you can be. Like when I was a field rep, I was, I was striving and I was burnt out and a lot of hours on the road and I had two small kids at the time and, and all of that.

And I wish I would know now or I wish I would've known then what I know now in how I could have worked differently. But then when my son passed away and I was in inside sales and I could call so many more customers and reach so many more customers just by using my phone and, you know, using a CRM and all the of the tools, I was able to reach so many more customers.

So then I had more customers that were buying and, and so when I learned how. To do outside sales and fee, be a field sales rep, and then do inside sales. That's where I'm like, oh, you could do so much more as a field sales rep by combining both, by making the phone calls to customers and visiting. You still wanna visit those customers that want you in the store.

You still wanna visit your top customers. You still wanna do that, but you don't have to spend all your time and get so burnt out by doing that so that you could do some phone calls and you could reach more customers and grow your sales in that way. And so that's a huge mindset shift going on right now, and we've really learned a lot of that since COVID.

Oh, yes. COVID was a, a bane to many, but a boon for Zoom. Yes, true. Which we're on Zoom right now. Yes. And, and you know, everybody uses Zoom all the time, but where was Zoom before COVID? So, yeah. Yeah. I Sure. Zoom is saying Thank you, COVID. Yes. So, uh, so. Yeah. Yeah. Compared to Zoom, I'm sure making phone calls was more difficult.

In some ways you seem like you're very at ease in front of the camera. Yeah. Do you do a lot of Zoom? Do you recommend using Zoom? Yeah, so I think it's important with some customers. So some customers, I would say since COVID, two, some people are zoomed out as well. So I think it's meeting the customer where they're at.

So if you have a customer that's like, can, can you, you know, I'm interested in this product, can you share more details? If it's not a customer that wants you to come into their store, then showing a Zoom. Doing a Zoom, and you know, like, look at this handbag, and you can open it up and you can see like, here's a zipper pocket and you can show more products.

So if your customer's open to that, absolutely do zooms. And I've found that if you do a Zoom call with a customer, your order totals could be a little bit higher because they're like, Hmm, okay, I get to see more of the product that way, um, than just a phone call, but still. Anybody, especially in sales right now, you will take what you can get.

So if it's a $500 order or an $800 order or a thousand dollars order, you will take what you can get. Even though you know things are a little bit, customers are ordering a little bit lighter right now, you still will take that and you will help them and get them the best product and give them the value, even if it's a $500 order.

That's a one point I wanted to make is that not everyone is comfortable on Zoom. No, I think that is a big setback, or I can't think of the right word, but it's in, you know, if you are in sales, you should force yourself to learn how to use Zoom. Yes. Now your customer may not wanna use Zoom. I like your point that you can show the product much more easily.

Mm-hmm. But also the connection that you get eyeball to eyeball. Yeah. It's, to me, a hundred times better than being on the phone. Yes. But your customer, if they don't want it, they are the boss. Yes, exactly. I do talk to a lot of salespeople that say, oh, I don't feel comfortable on Zoom or Loom. Loom is something else I recommend, uh, yeah.

Her to do. Interesting take on that, uh, from a recent guest, um, her name is Ruth Rek, so look up that episode. Um, but not everyone's comfortable, but there are definitely advantages to. Have, you know, be enjoyed from Zoom. Yeah, I'm sure. The economy right now it is June, 2025. Yes. Yeah. With the tariff situation.

I have a lot of customers just what the heck's going on? And yeah, businesses are changing. We don't know how this is all gonna shake out. No, but we're living through it. It's just like COVID, we lived through it. Here we are. Made it through. So I'm sure that that's a challenge for you too. Yes, it is.

There's several vendors that I talked to that, you know, they're struggling through tariffs and trying to do what they can do. And so, um, that's, we are, we're living through it. There's no right answer. Not every vendor is gonna handle it the exact same way. And that's okay. Um, it's trying to communicate that to the retailers, like, this is where we're at, this is how we're handling it.

And then the retailers on their end have to handle it in the best way they can as well. And there's no one right way either. What I, what have you been listening to? There's one right way. It's my way. I dunno what you've been listening to. Yeah. So you're, one of the things that you said is that we could talk about, I think we just did a strategy to double your impact without doubling your hours.

Obviously that has got to be on the phone. Yes. Now and, and I don't know, do you go out on the road? I know you train and we gotta talk about that in the next few minutes remaining, but do you yourself go out on the road selling at all or do you do it all from home? Um, so for right now, um, mostly from home.

Um, I do have some retailers that I still like check in with and things like that, but most of the time it's from home. Um, we focus more on inside sales and provide that service for vendors as well. So, um, but we, like I go to trade shows and things like that, so I do see retailers there as well. Yeah. Talk about efficiency.

Yeah. Trade shows, that's another controversial subject. Um, my husband in 1990, just to tell you how old we are, although he's eight years older than me, wrote his first book. He wanted to call it the nine and a half minute Sales call, and it was about trade shows. And we had a publisher like McNaughton and Gunn, a huge publisher, and they said it's going to be called How to Get the Most Out of Trade Shows.

Yeah. Well that's really boring, but trade shows efficient and effective way of connecting with clients. So I absolutely, I'm glad you brought that up. Yeah. Build relationships with them. So let's talk about how people can get ahold of you. Don Gro. Yeah. And you know how you can connect with peop, you know how you'd like to be connected with, and you have something that you offer for free.

So why don't you talk about that. And as you're listening, remember all these. Notes will be in the show notes. Yeah. All the links. Yes. So you, um, can connect with me on my website. It's broken vessel sales.com. Um, and it has all the services that we provide on there. It also has the podcast for Inside Gift and Home.

Um, but then also I'm on LinkedIn, um, Dawn Roers, and then also on Instagram and Facebook as well. So you can always find me there. Um, and, uh, yeah, so one of the things that I wanted to offer to your audience as well is, um, a free connect call with me. 'cause I do like to connect with people. So, uh, it's a free connect call.

And so if there's, if you're interested, if you're a field sales rep and you're a little burnt out right now, uh, I would love to connect with you to talk, to, talk to you, learn a little bit more about how we could maybe save 20 plus hours a month for you, um, in using some inside sales skills, helping you get set up with a CRM, and then, um, understanding who to call and who to go visit as well.

So, and that's a Calendly Calendly link that Kay will put in the show notes. That's right. Yeah. Sounds, sounds great. Well, I love everything you've said. I think there might have been something I didn't love, but mostly I, I loved it. Uh, your philosophy, how you handle relationships and sales. I like to think of sales as helping.

It sounds corny, but if you can find out what somebody wants needs and help them get it, or even better find, help them get something they didn't even know was possible. Yeah. The, I love the Henry Ford quote, I probably overuse it. He says, if I'd had, if I'd asked people what they wanted, they would've said faster horses.

So people didn't know what cars were. And, and on some level, our, our customers and prospects don't know the possibilities, even though they think they can go on the internet and learn it all. Yes. Or go to ai. No, you can't. You can't. You need us. Yeah. So, so Dawn, is there anything that you wanna close out with, uh, last few words of wisdom before we say over and out?

Yeah. Yeah. No, um, thank you one for having me. But I also just think, you know, with sales it's about relationships. It's about building that and adding value. And the more customers that we can connect with that add value and we're building those relationships, the better you're gonna be able to be. You summed it up very nicely.

Uh, as a reminder, everything's gonna be in the show notes, and I wanna just say thank you, Dawn. I'm so glad that we had this conversation. So thanks Dawn, for being on the podcast. Thank you for having me.

Okay. That was not too hard. No, not at all. Not at all. Ah, great. I've had some