ChangED
ChangED is an educator based podcast for Pennsylvania teachers to learn more about the PA STEELS Standards and science in general. It is hosted by Andrew Kuhn and Patrice Semicek.
ChangED
Reflective Spaces: The Key to Teacher Success
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Unlock the secrets of transformative education with Dr. Carla as she returns to ChangED, guiding us through the emotional landscape of evolving educational practices in adult learning. Dr. Carla sheds light on the critical role of transformative learning and practitioner inquiry, as well as the importance of fostering strong relationships in educational settings. We explore the power of collaboration in teaching and how partnerships between educators and learners fuel growth and understanding.
About our Guest:
I am the daughter of a Chemist and Elementary Teacher, so as a K-5 Science Teacher Educator, the apple did not fall from the tree. My research and practice, which I am passionate about, focus on supporting elementary educators and administrators to create meaningful, authentic, and sustained opportunities for every child to participate in science and engineering practices with wonder and joy. Most of my work takes place in the context of school-university-community partnerships alongside children, teachers, and families. I am a former middle school science teacher from Houston, TX, and I earned my B.S.Ed. and Ph.D. from University of Michigan.
Want to send us a show idea or just say hi? Email us at: thechangedpodcast@gmail.com!
Navigating Change in Adult Education
Speaker 1Welcome back to Change Ed. Change Ed, I'm your host, eric Kuhn, education Consultant from Montgomery County, intermediate Unit number 23.
Speaker 2And here with me is Patrice Semicek, also from MCIU 23 and still an EC.
Speaker 1We'd like to welcome back all of our listeners from your one-week intermission. We hope that you enjoyed your halftime show.
Speaker 2Which was.
Speaker 1Silence.
Speaker 2That would be nice. I would welcome that yeah.
Speaker 1We are here with Dr Carla.
Speaker 2Again.
Speaker 1Again. One recording, two shows, two for the price of one. Two for the price of one. It was so good.
Speaker 2Here's the thing about recording with Carla is that we went off on 14 tangents that were all kind of related but fabulous, so we couldn't really cut too much out because it was kind of awesome the whole time.
Speaker 1We felt very fortunate to have her in our space and to be around like-minded people that also stretch us at the same time.
Speaker 2My favorite part of the last one was when Carla and I were talking for a solid 15 minutes and you were just there. That was my favorite part.
Speaker 1And cut. One thing that I'm interested in your perspective is as young students, we were absorbing everything. We're taking everything in and as adults, we have responsibilities set in and things that we're trying to achieve and accomplish and we're part of something, especially in the education world. What is the role of adult learning theory in that, in the work that we do? What does that look like? How? You know, we're always struggling with how do we? We want to empower educators with steals and we want them to feel like they're part of something truly amazing that could change the face of education versus the first. A lot of times I'll hit some. Initially, it's like this is happening to us great something here we go, we're gonna switch it.
Speaker 1So even that mindset right when we talk about it's not the same thing, but I think the stark contrast between a deficit and strength based mindset same thing where it's like but this is so awesome, like this is it like a problems versus opportunities kind of like maybe? Yeah, I mean, you know they look at us like we're nuts. If I started out to be like this is awesome.
Speaker 2We totally nerd out about it.
Speaker 1Yeah, we're like this is awesome, you know. I want to say to them like imagine, you know when, when all the standards came out, and you were just asking somebody like can I have this? Can I have a little bit of room? Could you kind of make it so it's a little more fluid and could be less standards focused and more about the you know instructional practices and the pedagogy?
Speaker 3I'm like this is it like.
Speaker 1this is what we've all asked for and yet still there's needed and well intentioned and valued work that needs to be done. But I guess that's where I'm curious, of like from your experience with adult learners, like how does that? Work. How does that transition work and how is it different from your experience with working in elementary with elementary students? How is it different? What differences do you see?
Speaker 3So you want people to get to the point where, in relationship to what they did before, these new practices are so compelling and they see the benefit for kids so much that they can't imagine doing it that other way again, like it's not part of their repertoire. Again that takes time, it takes relationships, it also you have to allow space for the emotional components, when you're really good at doing something and it works every single year. And you, you know the sort of the like if it's not broke, don't fix it.
Speaker 3My kids like science, they're engaged, they think I'm the best teacher in the world. And then you're confronted with this steals is asking me to change my instructional. This is different for standards. Right Is asking me to change my instructional practices so kids can be more engaged. So kids driven by phenomena pulls on their own interests and their curiosity, their innate curiosity. So that takes time and the way that I've approached it before and some of my peers, where I've really seen that transformation take place and transformative learning as a framework for adult learning, has been helpful in seeing this and understanding it.
Speaker 3But having teachers examine their own practice as part of professional learning, so practitioner inquiry, where they really spell out this thing that I'm working on with you as whoever's doing the support roles, that is different than what I'm doing now. And so what could I? What do I need to understand about it to make sense of it and weigh it against right? And then doing that, like you do, alongside side teachers, like sometimes co-planning, co-teaching, debriefing with them and debriefing in a community of other people who are part of these partnerships and then bringing in. So right now, pre-service teachers work with us. They get exposed to all of this and, socialization wise, they go out in the school their place with someone who maybe doesn't teach science at all during the school day. They don't have opportunities to kind of see what these things look like in practice.
Speaker 3And so when those images of practice, these considerations that are focused for elementary teachers on the kids, right, how can I support my kids in sense making? All of that has to come together with practice. It's multi-pronged, but we have never been as successful as we were when we were pairing that up with a practitioner inquiry where they actually see the change, weigh the change, share those changes with other people in a smaller community and acknowledge that it's going to be hard, in a way that goes beyond the practices themselves, that it's hard emotionally to let go of that person that you already had that identity as being great at this thing. I think if people are really unsure they're more open to what else could I be doing?
Speaker 3But when you're great, at it like do I really want to consider that? And we bump into that a lot. I was just talking to Scott about the other day and the team. Secondary teachers are content experts, so they're even harder. Elementary teachers are very I find them a very friendly group in terms of considering, being driven by the kids, what's best for kids and then learning, trying to learn new things. That will support that. But it's not a wave the magic wand, it's a commitment. It's a long-term commitment to make it sustainable.
Speaker 2I like that you brought up the fact of like leaving space for the emotional impact Because when, like you said, like, for example, I have an aunt who was an ELA teacher at the high school who always taught the AP honors class and then there weren't enough AP honors classes and then she had to teach the gen ed kids or the regular ed kids, whatever she called them, and there were a lot, a lot of emotions that ended up in her retirement Like I love her. I love her. She's an amazing human and and the people that I know that had her as a, as a student, will say to you I'm a different writer because of her, because of her standards and whatever. So I think if she had been given an opportunity to have the feels and to work through the feels, she would have actually really enjoyed that different group of people. But I like that you're mentioning that we need to leave space for that, because that is a big.
Speaker 2I honestly think anytime and I've seen it with like other curriculum rollouts, even within math right, I've done a lot of work in math and when someone goes from everyday math to goal math or whatever they're moving to, if you've really got everyday math down and it works and you love the cyclical nature of it and all these other things and you switch to a new program that doesn't have those pieces. Part of your identity goes away. It's a hard pill to swallow. So I can imagine, because I started this role before the shift to the common core. So I didn't feel that as a teacher myself, I can't imagine having a major shift for like common core and then 10 years later having another major shift when it comes to steals, and what does that do to your identity as a teacher? So I appreciate that you mentioned leaving space for the emotions, because they're going to be there.
Speaker 3That wheel just keeps turning on a faster basis in elementary grades because always right, if you're not in a math cycle, you're in ELA cycle. You're in a social studies revision, you're in a science, you know.
Speaker 2That's when you figure it out.
Speaker 3It's changed, and the other way that happens to elementary teachers is sort of the re-novicing now that happens when you get switched from one grade level to another grade level. Right, Because now there's content that you're responsible for and practices that you're responsible for at any given grade level. So the challenges are great, but so are the opportunities.
Speaker 1Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1Yeah, I think the one thing that stands out to me is that time looks different and that reflection looks different. So I think, as teachers and as adults, as adult learners, that there are things where we're like, well, we're going to put a pin in that. As you say, you know, make room for it. We're going to put a pin in that and I'm going to come back to it Learning the value of time, that we don't have to make a decision immediately when in the classroom we have a limited amount of time. So very often your reflection might be like a guided reflection or facilitated reflection, because it's like we've got to move you right, like I need you to be from third grade to getting you ready to go into fifth grade in that fourth grade year, to be from third grade to getting you ready to go into fifth grade in that fourth grade year. So I need to be able to help you move along at a different piece, where for adults it might be a little bit more, dare I say, inquiry based, where, okay, I've heard this, let me actually look into it, or I come across another article and I can open again. Open I love that terminology open space, create space, to have that.
Speaker 1That actually reminded me of a book that we've read, which is the Infinite Game by Simon Sinek, and really I think that it actually you can see it change. And basically the Infinite Game talks about a finite game which is for a set period of time, which we think about. A great example would be sports. When we're watching a sport, sport has a beginning and it has a defined end, and we can see that all play out where an infinite game goes on and on, and it's something that you continue to grow and build. And I think what happens is that when we are young students and I'm going to just call it organized education we are in a finite game. Right, you have beginning to a school year, you have an end to a school year and then you have a summer where you forget it all and then we start all over again.
Speaker 1But as adults, we end up entering into an infinite game and and from my perspective, that's when that time starts to change, because even if you're you're, you know, someone presents to you a counter argument. You don't have to solve that in that moment. You don't even have to solve it within that year. It's something that you can consider and can contemplate and really, in this whole scenario, what we're asking them is to possibly change their practice, possibly change their professional identity, how they consider themselves, how they value themselves and they value themselves and even make space to say is there a different way, is there possibly a better way? Anything that we do, what do they say? Change is the only constant, but anything, when anything changes, there's the positive and the negative, so we have to work through that.
Speaker 1So really it's helping to empower educators to see that we are going to continue changing. The world is changing. How do we embrace that? But also, like you said, take on this framework that helps to empower us to grow into who we are as individuals. That's, I think, a thing I love about it the most. It's not about we're all going to do it the same way. We're all going to. You know this is a script that we all have to follow, but we get to be our own individuals beautifully put.
Speaker 2That's why I'm the host, carla the best host that's right, the best we have definitive proof that I am best yeah, yeah we've done our research. It is completely unbiased, and not only by my family.
Speaker 1Carla, we actually we're going to, we're going to wind it down. We usually like to offer to our guests and we of course, want to send this to you a second to last final thought for the conversation we had.
Speaker 2If there's something that you Cause, andrew has to be the last.
Professional Learning and Collaboration Expansion
Speaker 1Yeah, and. I feel like I already, gave that because you know Carla to be the last. Yeah, and I feel like I already gave that because you know carlo she would. She stood up and was applauding when I was done, so felt like the zoom. The zoom muted out her class yeah, nobody saw all I had, all I had in that effect. But is there anything, anything final thought that you'd like to share?
Speaker 3there's so many things, but teaching is a learning profession and that we need to really embrace that it's not just teachers and children who are doing the learning, it's us too, as we move along, and we do that in partnership with one another. Not again we learn something and then it's something that we do to teachers so they can do it to kids. In partnership is where we're really going to learn and grow and encounter new perspectives that will push our thinking and get us to do some reconsidering of the things that we do, why we do them and if there are other ways to do them that's that are best for the people that we're working with, to support them.
Speaker 1So this has been a very special tree for us and one that we've been looking forward to since the spring, and I know our schedules have been, you know, ever moving for for on both sides.
Speaker 1So we're super excited to have the opportunity to talk to you. And this is my closing thought, which actually has everything and nothing to do at all with what we've been talking about, which is this podcast is, for us, almost a professional learning collaborative, where we get to spend that time with individuals that really stretches us and we get to ask questions that we always want to ask. It's a really unique opportunity and have amazing discourse and great dialogue with individuals. So it's really it's the treat is ours, because we get to learn more from others and continue to expand ourselves. So we enter into that infinite game for ourselves. It really expands our thinking and continues to allow us to grow, but also challenge what we're thinking, and so it allows us to not feel stagnant but continue to grow and have millions and millions of fans who tune in to us every day to experience that growth.
Speaker 2Secret hidden fans. Hey, are we going to get Simon Sinek to sponsor us, because you've mentioned Infinite Game like three times?
Speaker 1Yeah, he's just sponsoring me.
Speaker 3I'll find my own sponsor.
Speaker 2I'm getting my best new reads from YouTube. Infinite Game is a good one. I also really love David and Goliath. I'm excited.
Speaker 1I like David and Goliath. It's a fantastic one. Malcolm Gladwell yeah, very good, I like this.
Speaker 3Let's find ways to collaborate, moving forward. I really, really, really want to find ways to work with the two of you.
Speaker 2Well, do we have to bring?
Speaker 3Andrew, I'll leave that up to you, patricia.
Speaker 2The answer is no. Well, he can be our driver.
Speaker 1I heard it was definitely me Call the Uber.
Speaker 2He'll be our driver.