ChangED
ChangED is an educator based podcast for Pennsylvania teachers to learn more about the PA STEELS Standards and science in general. It is hosted by Andrew Kuhn and Patrice Semicek.
ChangED
From Chaos to Coherence: Science Education's Evolution
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Colonial SD's own Maria Wileczek shares her remarkable 26-year perspective on Pennsylvania's dramatic shift from standardless science teaching to today's three-dimensional learning approach. Drawing from her experience, Maria offers unique insights into curriculum evolution while exploring practical implementation challenges facing both elementary and secondary teachers—from creating authentic assessments to navigating the tension between specialized expertise and integrated science teaching.
Maria's innovative strategies, including claim-evidence-reasoning frameworks and creative use of Super Bowl commercials as entry points for scientific thinking, demonstrate how educators can make abstract concepts accessible and engaging. Throughout the conversation, she emphasizes why this evolution matters: today's students need science literacy not just for academic success but to make evidence-based decisions about health, technology, and environmental issues throughout their lives. Her passion for ensuring equitable access to meaningful science education infuses every practical insight.
Want to send us a show idea or just say hi? Email us at: thechangedpodcast@gmail.com!
Meet Maria Wilicek: 26 Years in Science Education
Speaker 1We've been involved with Steeles for quite some time in Montgomery County.
Speaker 2We want to find out who Maria is first.
Speaker 1Yep, I like how you told me it was my show. I started to ask the question and then you told me I was doing it.
Speaker 2No, but normally we do like it's an intro of the person and then we'll go back. Okay, whatever, I don't care.
Speaker 3I'm a celebrity, so most people they already know who I am welcome back to change ed.
Speaker 1Change it the number one education podcast in all of southeastern pennsylvania. I'm your host, andrew coon, education consultant from montgomery county intermediate unit, and here with me is betriez samacek, also out of the montgomery county.
Speaker 2Patricoon, education Consultant from Montgomery County Intermediate Unit, and here with me is Patrice Semecek, also out of the Montgomery County Intermediate Unit and still an educational consultant.
Speaker 1Thanks to Patrice's leadership, we about-faced and started off this show correctly by introducing ourselves. And now let's jump to our guest, maria Wilicek.
Speaker 2She's so famous, she's so famous.
Speaker 1Yeah, we don't even need to use last name, she's known as Maria. Welcome to the show, maria. Would you mind introducing your famous self to the ChangeEd?
Speaker 3Nation. Sure, I'm Maria Wilicek. I am Curriculum Supervisor K-12 for Science and most of the other STEM areas, with the exception of Math, for the Colonial School District. I've been here in this particular role for 16 years and prior to that I was an Assistant Principal and then, before that, a Biology Teacher in Upper Darby School District.
Speaker 2Oh, I didn't think you've been in the system that long. It must be a stress-free job, you look amazing.
Speaker 3This is my 26th year, so I'm hoping for that 30 and out window in four.
Speaker 2Good for you. Wow, 26 years. I thought I was about at 20.
Speaker 3In fact, when I first started teaching, there were no standards from the state in place yet, and I remember in 2002 when we got science standards for the first time and trying to go through them and being elated because we didn't have to teach any systems of the body anymore and we gave all that to health and PE because they got their own standards and it went over to there and basically that was a huge chunk of time that we got to teach in biology because we didn't have to go through all of the human body. We were able to focus on the micro level a little bit more, and then the PSSA at the high school level started after that too. So I was teaching during that whole entire process, even before Keystones came around.
Science Before Standards: Teaching Without Guidelines
Speaker 1Wow, I love this. I want to lean into this. You have a unique perspective. Yeah, because I'm old. Yeah.
Speaker 2Experienced, seasoned.
Speaker 1I want to lean into this and hear more about this, because I think you can offer a really unique perspective of kind of the first iteration of introducing standards and now we're looking, we're not looking, we are revising these standards. I'm curious if you see similarities for kind of how they're, how we're going about it as districts, as units, as systems, but also some of the differences that you might see in how we are reacting, how it's being embraced.
Speaker 3Yeah Well, first I can say that prior to having standards, even when I can remember doing my student teaching, I was at University of Scranton, so I was in the Northern part of the state. That's considered a city, but the areas surrounding it are fairly rural and I had to visit multiple schools to do my different my level one, my level two, three, four to get my certification. And I had to visit multiple schools to do my different my level one, my level two, three, four to get my certification. And even just seeing from school district to school district how different everything was and much of which was not even so much based on what their curriculum was but really what the resources were that they had available, or who the teachers were or how many teachers they had, so to speak.
Speaker 3And then finally teaching on my own and even just how much difference between one classroom to the next in Upper Derby because at the time I think it was like considered the third or fourth largest high school or district in the state of Pennsylvania really big we had just biology teachers alone. I think there were like nine bio teachers, maybe 10 bio, that's teaching biology and there were some people that had been teaching there since the 60s and they were teaching their own thing and they had their own lessons that they loved. And then there were those of us that were newer and we were trying to do the Human Genome Project was just coming about at that time, so we were really engrossed in things like DNA and genetics. So there's just a big variance. And then those kids would go on to take AP Biology and some of those kids had some things under their belt and some of the other kids had other things under their belt and it really just created inconsistencies for the kids if they really were serious in a life science route and wanted to move on. Because there was just no I use the word standard but no pun intended, but there was no standard to go back to to really make sure that there was a golden rule of what you needed to know to say you mastered this content in order to move on.
Speaker 3What's different, though, is that, even though we're using those standards we've been using the same standards since 2002, you still find that and I'm one of these older teachers, and even myself you had your units that you preferred more than others. You went into it deeper than you did others. You found more labs to do with others, or really cool activities that kids were really engaged in. And then those other topics we won't name any, but, like plants, no one likes them. Plants are boring. Right, you breeze through it because, okay, you got your vascular, your non-vascular, I'm going to move on, whatever sort of a thing. And it just again, you know what's going to be on that test. I'm going to teach what's on that test as much as they need. And then the other topics if I have extra time, I'm going to go deeper in there and maybe do a cancer research project or something like that to make it a little bit more fun and exciting. And so what's different now? Well, there's a lot that's different now, and I actually At first I read them differently, I will say because I've been looking at the Next Generation Science Standards since they came out and trying to do my own training on them without sitting through anything. And that's still good. Any exposure you can get is good. But I've been fortunate enough to be part of that pencil group with the state I think we started that right after the pandemic and that has helped me look at things from a different lens a little bit more and really truly understanding.
Speaker 3Well, one, the three dimensions are critical. I can remember before, especially when I first started in this role, working with elementary teachers because that was very new for me, trying to get time for them to do science. That was a big challenge, right. And then trying to explain to them like science is what you need in order to do your ELA and math, because you should be, but having the supports that the way. And that's not three-dimensional science per se, but just taking the practices and talking about how you make arguments based on evidence that you find or claims that you find. But that's the same thing as doing TDA and ELA and like finding those ways to support and making those connections are really critical, and even the cross-cutting concepts, some of which are very similar to the mathematical practices. So like there's all these ways, especially at the elementary level, that it really, really is very helpful.
Speaker 3But I think that's also what's helpful is the performance expectations, because now and this is where I think secondary teachers, especially we I say we, so I'm still teaching in high school, but we have our things that we hold on to and I feel like many of us are scared to let go at this point in time Because you're telling me, I don't need to know all the phases of mitosis or all the names of the organelles, just tell me.
Speaker 3But they are telling you and we have to trust it and go. There's just I see the shift in being more deliberate about what you have to get to, so to speak, but also the intentionality of pulling the other things in and making it more three-dimensional. So you are taking application for everything where you do see patterns and making those connections for kids or where those practices come into play. So it's much more evolved. It's going to take a lot of time. I mean I don't feel like I'm there still, I don't think my teachers are fully there and I think it's going to take a couple iterations of the assessment too, for us to feel a lot more comfortable, because that's where the anticipation is Like what are they expecting us to know, and even just how to make 3D assessments themselves? That we don't have a lot of exposure right now to that. So that's our challenge.
Implementing Standards: Challenges and Inconsistencies
Speaker 2I'm going to start with the assessment question, which no one ever wants to talk about. So if you don't talk about it, totally fine, sure you can phone a friend if you need to I don't know which friend you're going to phone, because I don't know if anyone has a good answer. How are you seeing, as you and your district have been working in NGSS specifically for a little while now? How are you helping them? Or how are your teachers moving forward with creating three-dimensional assessments in their classrooms? We'll start there.
Speaker 3Well, I mean a couple of things there are. If you go into Steel's Hub and things like that, there's templates in there to help you design. We're also fortunate that we are a district, that is, we're signed with LinkIt and LinkIt also has some. They've done a couple of webinars, actually, which I've shared with my teachers and some teachers have sat in, but I include them in department meetings and things like that, where they do break down how you should be designing a three-dimensional assessment, and so we've been working in that and also had access to some test banks, which is very helpful, and trying to look at other state assessment test banks as well.
Speaker 2The struggle is that Well one a lot of it is just reading passages and then applying content that you already know to a new situation, which seems like the antithesis of the way that we're teaching science, now with engineering tests.
Speaker 3But a lot of it also is making sure kids really do understand claim evidence reasoning and they are good at identifying evidence to support what their logic is. So there's a lot of writing and reading that's applied to it as well. But then the other thing is where I struggle, from what I see these other assessments, is you know, you're supposed to make sure that there's a cross-cutting concept tied in there. You're supposed to make sure there's a science and engineering practice in there as well as, of course, whatever that disciplinary content is. And I struggle myself with how do you evaluate that? To what extent do you measure that kid's ability? What is the encompassing? How do you do it in one particular night's meat package?
Speaker 3And I don't know if there is exactly one way, but I look to those other resources that I mentioned just to see the design that they have in place and make sure that if we are creating a question that we're taking into consideration, like if we're doing something that we're looking at a map or we're looking at a structure, is there something regarding scale and proportion in there that we can include with that content? You know, is there something within language that we're having them analyze something? So just taking those other factors and it's the picture of the whole of all three of those things to see if the kids are successful in addressing whatever's being asked in that question.
Speaker 2It's a beautiful answer. I'm going to use that anytime it asks. I'm just going to like cut the snippet and be like.
Speaker 3I don't even know what I just said, to be perfectly honest with you, but if it sounded good to you, hey, it sounded really, really good.
Three-Dimensional Science: New Assessment Challenges
Speaker 2It sounded amazing. No-transcript of that connected. How have you helped your elementary teachers move into saying, okay, I can either take some of the reading that I'm doing for science to do it in my ELA block, or recognizing the importance of dedicated science time instead of it being that last half hour which turns into 15 minutes and if there's no assembly and it's, you know, a full moon out?
Speaker 3Well, I think. Well, first of all, this has been an ongoing. The struggle is real, like this is not an elementary teachers. They're beautiful people and they all want to do what's best for kids. They truly, truly do. This is their probably the one topic that they like teaching with kids, because they know kids have fun with it, but they're also not as comfortable teaching at the same time.
Speaker 3Now you have things like MTSS in place that have taken out more time out of the school day that they have, and all of this is very valuable and it's how do you make sure you still have that designated time? When I first started, I mean, it was like loosey-goosey we were struggling with you do social studies for three days and then science for two, and then the next week you flip science for three and then, if we have an assembly, you just mix whatever you feel like. So what we've done and I'm sorry for social studies people, but social studies, I don't have to compete with social studies anymore Science is just done now every week. I think we're looking at four days per week, approximately 30 to 45 minutes at the elementary level, and social studies has kind of been engulfed into that ELA time as well and morning meeting stuff it does and I think it's working pretty well. So I have more science time dedicated. We've always done things like I've had classroom libraries done where it's science content for reading and the kids have that to read on their own time or teachers asking them to use. We have Benchmark as one of our resources for ELA, so with the ELA supervisor and myself kind of looking at here's our units and here's what is available in Benchmark and trying to align them so that it's supporting the content that's being taught in science at the same time.
Speaker 3But recently this year I've done a traveling roadshow to my elementary schools specifically about claim evidence reasoning, because we do school improvement plans in the district. Every school does an improvement plan every year. We're looking at our data and what we want to try to focus on and at the elementary level, almost every single building said that they were trying to focus on TDA in ELA and I'm sitting there because they're not, as Kids aren't assessed K-3. So I have nothing to contribute to this conversation but I do because I'm like oh, that's your goal, I got something that can support you as well. So I made my fun little presentation on CER for them with our resource and showing examples of how this supports. And you go online. There's CER examples all over the place like little templates that you can use, and the one thing that's great, there's this great example that's out there online. It's all over the place. So I'm not citing anything that's I don't even.
Speaker 3I think I've seen it referenced like 20 times, but they go through a CER activity using a Super Bowl commercial oh nice, it's an Audi commercial from 2009, where a little girl says my dad is an alien. And then she goes through this whole entire process and explains why her dad is an alien he drinks this green juice. Her dad is an alien. He drinks this green juice. He's apparently from Albuquerque she doesn't believe it and he drives a spaceship, which, of course, is the Audi. And basically, you show this commercial. It's not intimidating, even leveling field for all kids. Every kid can access it. So it's not like some kid has an experience of going to the beach and has seen dolphins versus the kid that's never gone. So everybody can contribute.
Speaker 3And then you cite what the claim is, identify the evidence from the commercial and then collectively, as a class, talk about well, what's your reasoning there? What do you think? Is this claim true or not? And just, it's so easy. So I just did another presentation, actually two days ago, and I'm like well, superbowl is this weekend. Why don't you see?
Speaker 3If there's some commercials that you can bring into your classroom, just to?
Speaker 3It doesn't have to be science related at first. We just want them to get comfortable with the process of questioning and saying this is true or not, because I see this or I don't see this. And then you talk about the gradual release process to do that in elementary. So you start this off, you do it as a whole class, then you break into smaller groups and maybe you come back as a class and do the reasoning collectively, because that's the hardest part, which is equivalent to doing your conclusion and your analysis later on when you get to a lab report. And then hopefully by the end of the year, they're able to do that independently and maybe even apply it to a scenario. So that's like the end game. So those are tickets in, tickets out. Maybe it is an assessment, it could be a performance task, but that's what we want to try to build up to at the elementary level as well. That's my thing this year. Next year I'm going to try to pick something else. I don't know, we'll see.
Speaker 1What I really appreciate, all the things you're saying, all of them I do appreciate, but the one I appreciate the most is how you said the struggle is real, that time crunch does not seem to be going away in any capacity, and there's always more and more that we're trying to do, as we're trying to work with students and prepare them for everything, prepare them for life and help empower them.
Speaker 3Well, and as an elementary person too, you're expected to be a content expert in at least four different subjects, and it's so much, and I look reflecting back on myself when I first came here and this is 16 years now doing this but at first I was like we had FOSCITs. It was already established before I got here that we had FOSCITs and that was one of the main things out there that everybody had, and at the time I don't even know how much they were digitized.
Speaker 3To be perfectly honest with you, it was like here's your box and here's your stuff and here's your book, and there you go, here's all your things, right, and that's what I had, and God, and you're only going to teach this for 30 minutes, but I want you to spend 20 minutes of your day prepping for this 30-minute activity. You're going to have to do that same activity again tomorrow. Just not realistic. So I think, honestly, part of it is we always want all the stuff with the bells and the whistles, but if you don't take into consideration the usability of whatever resource that you're going to use, if it's not usable, it's just not going to get done.
Speaker 3That's the bottom, bottom line. So you really have to find things that teachers can manage. There's a level of ease for them, that it doesn't create stress, because if they have that support, they're going to get it done and they're going to do a great job and kids are going to enjoy it too. And I think that was one of my biggest things at the beginning. I'm like you've got to just keep doing it. You got to get it done, you got to get it done. It's not going to happen. You can't change time.
Speaker 2Continuum right, like it's only so many hours. Yeah, and that's one of the nicer things I like about the NGSS Pennsylvania Steels especially the Steels is the environmental literacy piece and how much they can do outside of their back door. Like there's a lot going on in Pennsylvania where teachers have access to. Maybe you can't like get down into the stream every day, but there are options that feel a little more accessible than the entire kit. Like you can do a lot more automation and a lot more connecting to what's outside.
Speaker 3Yeah, the only thing sometimes I struggle with and I haven't done as deep a dive with, I mean steals, we're good, environmental literacy, we're still. We're getting there still, but I think that's going to take a little bit more time because there's so many more options and it can change from year to year. It so many more options and it can change from year to year, it can change from class to class. Do you create a consistent project every year? Do you have the same problem every year?
Speaker 3You know so there's that, because of the openness of it creates in and of itself also more challenges, because do you bet that on a teacher? You know, is that a responsibility for them to figure out every year, or am I? I mean, I'm fortunate that this is my job, because most districts don't have someone in my role, right, dedicated to doing this topic, and if you're in another district that some people only have one curriculum supervisor for the whole district, they're not. That's like not going to happen, no, you know. So very valid that is. That's a challenge. I'm not saying it's not a good challenge to have to have. We need to look at it, but still trying to wrap my head around that all the way how I do that I have a wondering conversation.
Speaker 1Be prepared and again, it is kind of a comparison between your experience while you've been here through the Sanders. Human nature is for us to actually start to forget an experience. Generationally this could happen, right. So my grandmother was born during the Great Depression and the way that she accumulates things and stockpiles things and, you know, holds on to things is very different than what we do now, two generations later for myself, where, like, we think about it differently. So my grandmother would have never been just buying things off the internet and you know, just in time economy that we have now, she thought very clearly about how that worked.
Speaker 1So my wondering is do you see any of that with the standards? Like, one to three years ago, you know, as the standards are coming into play, it was a very different space. Or do you feel like we still have that institutional knowledge, Like, okay, we came from here and now we're stepping into the this is kind of the next level for it, we're leveling up? Are we forgetting what it was like? Or do you think we have enough individuals who are still around that remember that time that you can help kind of guide as we move into our steel standards?
Speaker 3Well, I think yes and no and it really depends on the grade level you're talking about. Not to sound silly, but middle school they're very flexible teachers. I mean, they go all over the place, right. You got a little bit of elementary in there and sixth grade and all the certifications also. By the way, I was just having this conversation, I don't even know what certifications are out there anymore for science, because when I got my certification it was like you were life, you were bio, you were chem, you were physics, right, and that was seven through 12. Or you're an elementary teacher K-6. And that's all changed. Now there's like mid-science and this science and all. I think that when you are elementary, they just want to do whatever they're told to do. And there's a broader range of teachers there. There's a lot of them, and so, because of that mix, a lot of them have team meetings and that kind of capacity to work together and learn from each other. You have the people that have the different experiences to talk to at the table and you also have these younger voices there as well, and I think it's a nice opportunity to mesh and do find things that are efficient and work well.
Speaker 3I think at the secondary level. You have people in their silos still expected to teach this three-dimensional science, but the standards are still written at the secondary level, like life science, a whole bunch there. And then you got some physical science which isn't called physics or physical science. And then you got chemistry in there too, which isn't called chemistry right, because that's part of the physical sciences and it just creates this like that's not tested, so I don't have to worry about it 100%, or they don't care that much about our areas, so we can kind of keep doing what we're doing. That's the truth of it and I think it's just a matter of understanding what the best practices are and reinforcing that. And the standards kind of come through there. And also having conversations with teachers like okay, the standard looks like this, now it looks like that before. Here's those other cross-cutting components. Do you do that? When do you do that? Make that evident. So when do you do that? Make that evident.
Claim-Evidence-Reasoning: Bridging Science and ELA
Speaker 3So I think that people are trying not to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but they're trying not to be as intentional as doing things as hyper-focusing on vocabulary and terms, but more about the actual application. Maybe that's the word I'm looking for. So I see a combination. I see the struggle more so still with the secondary folk, especially since they're hyper-focused in their areas that they expertise and they're married to that and they know so much about it. And sometimes these standards, the way in which they're written, it feels to them as though it's watering it down to some extent because it's not as deep in the. You can get there, but you're not required to. So I think that's the struggle is more so at the secondary level and at the elementary level I feel as though you have a larger pool of teachers and ages and the structure of what their day looks like allows them to collaborate a little bit more and it creates a little bit more harmony in making this shift.
Speaker 1The thing that I was thinking when you said this and you called this out, so I'll give you the credit is that, in fairness to our secondary teachers, they were navigated to those silos, Like you said, with the certification. It was like I've got to go down this alley and get exactly to this space. So that is an important part of this that I would like to believe will eventually be addressed in some capacity of okay, we're talking steals, what does that look like for certification? How are we going to talk about that differently? And that's way above the pay grade of all of us combined. But it is a factor, as you pointed out elegantly, that I don't see chemistry Right now. It's physics.
Speaker 3Never been like that since Even in 2002, when these standards came out, it was never like that and it's kind of like there's twofold. It's not fair. At the secondary level, I'll be honest. I'm a chemistry teacher. I'm a physics teacher. Physics had three standards total.
Speaker 3How are you supposed to teach a whole course based on three standards? It's like what do we just give up? Or just that broad Like let's give some guidance here. Same with chemistry, but at the same time, your bio teachers. There's a whole lot of responsibility put on them, like a lot of pressure.
Speaker 3And that test, that assessment, those kids for graduation, for science, all falls on biology, all falls on bio, you on biology. And why is biology the only thing important for kids to know in order to graduate? Just curious, I mean, I like it, that's what I taught, but that doesn't mean that it's the only thing I mean. And of course, in biology, the application of the other two are important. You can't have biochemistry without understanding chemistry, and physics plays an important role too with a lot of things. So I don't know. Sometimes I think at the secondary level, regardless of what the standards are, I think the standards are a nice step in trying to do things and making science more applicable for kids, but I don't know if we're still serving students as best we can when we structure our high schools and their science mastery.
Speaker 2So my vote is when the science guy at the state level retires. I feel like Maria should volley for that position.
Speaker 3I'm going to be somewhere on a beach relaxing.
Speaker 2I mean, a lot can happen for you.
Speaker 1Maria, we are nearing the end of our time together on the podcast.
Speaker 3Oh, I'm having so much fun.
Speaker 2Well, we'll have to have you back for a second one in five minutes.
Speaker 1It's really fun to see how, as a podcaster, to see how this, like always, comes together and how it ends up.
Speaker 3It's nice, that's fun.
Speaker 1It is fun and it's different every time.
Speaker 2And it's not scary. We need to get that message out, it's not.
Speaker 3I wasn't scared.
Speaker 2Well, you know what you do.
Speaker 1Just, maybe, just one, or let me tell like three, a final thought for our conversation, something maybe that sprung up on you or you can get to say that you would like to share.
Secondary Education: Struggles with Specialized Silos
Speaker 3Listen, I mean this for what it's worth, as much as I joke around and I know I'm like a loud person in a lot of our meetings that we have at the county level but this is something that's really extremely important to me, because I think it's important for this generation of kids, one to not be scared of science, but really to try to embrace it and to try to figure it out, because I think it's so critical that when they are adults and they go out into the world and they're caring for their parents, caring for their children, looking to buy a home, whatever it is that they can make the best choices for themselves. And you might say, well, what science have to do that? Well, really, in general, it really it does have a lot to do with things. They need to be able to make decisions for themselves in a way that is not just based on some idea that's out there, but it's grounded in something, and I think that's pivotal for this next generation, and that ranges from things to technology, to the environment, to their health, whatever. So, to technology, to the environment, to their health, whatever.
Speaker 3So I just think that we all should be doing right by kids. This is really really exciting and important and I hope that people give it a lot of thought as they make these changes and I hope that we can all make it as easy for teachers as possible. This shift is nowhere near over. We've only just started. We have a long way to go, but I hope it leads to a lot of collaboration and we're probably going to stumble a little bit more along the way as we go, but I think in working together, hopefully we can all figure out what's best there for our kids, for the future.
Speaker 1Mariah, you dropped a lot of nuggets of knowledge here and we appreciate your time. We appreciate you coming on and we look your time. We appreciate you coming on and we look forward to having you on the show again, again, soon.
Speaker 2Multiple times Sounds good. In the next four years.
Speaker 3Four years. We're wrapping it up and thank you so much for this. This is very fun. I could talk for hours, but I know you guys have other things to do. So thank you so much for having me on. I appreciate it.