Doc, Longest Games Ever Played, and Relationships

In this episode of the Created to Be podcast, Bethany, Justin, Darius, and Brandi find out why Darius is called Doc, discuss if it's worth it to stay up and watch history when it comes to games that go into extra time, and how they have failed and succeeded in relationships and what they've learned along the way.

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Chapters

• 0:32 The Origin of Doc
• 3:15 Building Intentional Relationships
• 4:22 Transactional vs. Genuine Relationships
• 8:50 The Stretch: Long Sporting Events
• 18:09 The Importance of Being Present
• 33:34 Navigating Relationship Dynamics
• 34:12 Personal Stories of Relationship Flops
• 49:29 Healthy vs. Unhealthy Attachments
• 1:02:36 The Role of Humility and Teachability
• 1:10:54 Expectations and Reality in Relationships

Transcript

... naturally. Everybody in themselves want to have some type of family or some type of

Yeah.

some type of relationship.

Yeah.

But we just have to keep things in its proper place.

Welcome to the Created To Be podcast. I'm Bethany Pigott, and I'm joined again by my husband, Justin Pigott.

Yo.

Darius "Doc" Brown.

Uh-huh.

Uh-huh. And we will eventually get to why his name is also called Doc. Okay. And then Brandi Morgan.

Hey.

Why don't you share that with us now, just in case we need to call that back? Why do people call you Doc?

So I had a nickname growing up, uh, called Hard Time. And I got that nickname because I was so small compared to the people of my age group that they would say I was having a hard playing sports and doing different things. So when I got older, singing gospel, going around different churches, different functions, I'm like, people would say, "Hard Time is singing tonight." And I'm like, "I can't sing gospel with a nickname Hard Time." So I changed it to Doc.

I love that you just changed it.

Yeah. I, I took an initiative. Said, "This is my life. I'm gonna give myself a new nickname." Now, honestly, I did not think it was gonna take off like it did, but everybody just started calling me Doc. The name stuck, and so here we are.

Yeah. Well, I, I feel like if anybody's been around you and heard someone call you Doc, I felt like, you know, people need to get us, to know us on a personal level. So that is why Darius is called Doc. Let's not resurrect the Hard Time. Just because you know that information now, world out there, you can't back on Darius.

Um, we had a great time last week talking about focus, talking about FCA, um, talking about acting in sports, and we see more and more of that. So I don't know if anybody has become more aware of that. I know I do every time now that I watch sports.

Uh, but also, we are a growing podcast. We're just figuring things out as we go. And so if you hear any crazy background noise, just, um, if you knew where we were sitting, um, and that there's a bathroom right behind the wall, uh, then you would understand what we're navigating here.

But we wanna do the best to bring you a good time, a good hang. And that's what we're gonna try to do again today. Um, so relationships is gonna be the topic today, because that's what we've been talking about at FCA at the huddle, and we'll eventually get to that.

Shayla Pierce spoke about relational attachments, and so that's gonna be, um, fun to get into some of our own stories, some flops, some fails, and everything in between, and hopefully, um, give you something that's worth leaving with. Uh, but just wanted to take the opportunity, if there's anything that any of us wanted to share that we're seeing in FCA, um, in the huddles, team bible studies, anything like that, one-on-ones that we'd like to share, um, just before we get into some other topics today.

Yeah. In regards to what I'm seeing just in FCA right now, uh, and it kind of echoes, I think, what y'all may say is, is just the, the impact of people sharing their stories. And many of them have not. And so just in our small group of guys, it's been like week four right now of just guys that are under 30s in athletic department.

Um, one is about to get married, but most in the room are single. And, uh, it's just great. They haven't shared their stories. They haven't talked about those things and getting to encourage each other, and that has been a lot of fun. So I'm looking forward to next week.

I've been, uh... In basketball, we've been, uh, just doing a lot of being intentional building relationships, getting to know players as well as coaches. Um, I wanna give a shout-out, uh, Guy Cho is one of my guys. Uh, he comes from South Sudan. So, uh, been spending a lot of time just getting to know him, uh, and a little bit about, you know, how he got here.

And, uh, it's... I've just been intrigued of talking to somebody from another

Mm-hmm.

... uh, 'cause it's so different, you know, so being able to share, and I believe, uh, even just sharing Jesus, a lot of it, the foundation is built on relationship.

For sure.

Allowing people to know who we are and what we're about and why we believe what we believe. And I just feel like, you know, sometimes before they know Jesus, we have to show them. And so that's something I've been very, very intentional about with him, coaches, just hearing their stories of...

They call them fellows now. Just kinda hearing where they come from, how they get here, um, how they got here, I'm sorry, and then what, what's... what they're looking for even in the future. And so that's been a, a great thing, um, to, to be experiencing in, you know, with basketball.

Yeah. And I, would echo to say too, like, somebody said, um, everything feels so transactional.

Mm-hmm.

And, you know, you get in that world and that's how it is. But like getting to go into a small group or one-on-one relationship, like you actually get to know the person and struggles they've had and how can I encourage them along the way. And so I never really thought about it that way though.

It's like a transactional thing because it is their job or whatever.

Right.

So you spend lots of hours and time, but the relationship is kind of missing.

I'm getting a whole lot more thank yous than I think I've

Yeah.

I don't know if y'all have noticed that.

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

And, and it's not that we are... We're not in it for the thank you, but and I'm just... I'm noticing more athletes coming to us, "Hey, thank you for what you're doing," or, "Thank you for meeting with me today."

Yeah.

Like, "This was awesome to talk about these things." And like... I don't, don't know. It's just

Yeah. I think that, um, in other time, it's almost like a present realization instead of like... A lot of times, you know, you go through... we were... I was that way. I don't wanna speak for all of us. But like, I was that way where it was like I was definitely thankful in the moment, but it's like whenever you got out on your own and then like life hit you in the face, you're "Oh my gosh, I'm so grateful." "I wish I would've been more grateful." And so that is kind of interesting is that maybe there's something different about what they're experiencing that is super hard and such a contrast to what they're experiencing at FCA that they're like, "Oh my gosh, thank you so much." You know?

Where it doesn't take that long to go far in the future and then come back and say, "Hey, thanks."

Mm-hmm.

Um, that's a good point. Yeah, 'cause I would say that too, that it seems like that as well.

Well, sometimes you don't know what you're missing until you get it.

Yeah.

You know, sometimes you don't know, you know, what you really need until it's actually presented. And I think that that's what FCA is doing.... with a lot of these student athletes. It's just giving them a, a

Mm-hmm.

that you are cared about beyond what your performance, um, speaks, or what your, what, what your coach or what different people outside of that particular sport is, uh, like you talk about, people on Twitter, people behind the keyboard, what they're saying. To be around people that are showing you genuine love, genuine conversation, and just, you know, checking on you, also helping you in whatever way we can, I think that that is something that they are, you know, very much appreciative.

And that's why, you know, you get those thank yous that sometimes, you know, we're not looking for 'em. ... just to know that we're making an impact in a positive way and giving them something to help keep them motivated, help keep them encouraged, that's something that I think we, we can take for life.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.

Well, and time. I don't think a lot of people are willing to give up time, and that's something that, like, I feel like a lot of us are gifted in because we have a heart for them. Like, so time is not an issue for me. I mean, you have to balance that with your family, but even though we're all super busy and have other things we could be doing, like making that time is very rare in today's world.

'Cause I found myself even at times, like, needing somebody to help or And, you know, you make a phone call or two and they either don't answer or they can't do it, which is fine, people have things to do, but, like, who will just stop what they're doing and help?

It makes a big difference, I feel like.

Yeah, which we, we'll get into relationships later, but we hope that that is what's happening as we talk about these relationships, that we would continue to grow on our, like, in our own lives as staff, but then also that there'd be, like, these healthy relational dynamics and connections happening at the huddle, and then they'll just continue to grow.

Real quick before we go into stretch time with Justin and our topic for the day for that segment, Brandi, do you wanna talk about the pickleball tournament real quick?

Yeah, sure. We're super excited. Pickleball tournament, November 22nd at McKee Park. Um, be on the lookout. We'll put updates on Instagram, hillstatefca_. And, um, there's already flyers if you wanna share, if you have friends that are interested in playing. We'll send the link out on there whenever it becomes available to sign up.

I'll say, just a big shout-out to Specialty Orthopedic Group and Starkville Parks and Recs for partnering with us on this.

Yeah, we're excited because Brandi is raising funds to become full time, and so we wanna use this event to help her complete that goal and just be a great time for, you know, just community just to come out, play. Also, hopefully we'll have some athletes be able to come out and be around for the day.

And so we just, we think this could be a really great community event. And a lot of people are always, like, asking how they can get involved and be part of what we're doing here. And so this is gonna be something that, um, continues to build hopefully over the next few years.

So come be a part of the inaugural event for Brandi. That'd be awesome. All right, Justin, we're gonna go into stretch time. Now, the other night, this is what generated this thought to talk about, because man, the Dodgers went into an 18 inning game, well, against the Blue Jays, so not just the Dodgers, but the Blue Jays and the Dodgers.

And don't judge, but Justin and I did stay up and watch until we saw Freddie Freeman hit the walk-off.

You you were working on stuff.

I, okay, so I watched, quote unquote, but I was definitely coming in and out of the room. Justin was as hard as he could trying to stay awake on the couch, um, to watch. But he made it, we made it. We

Mm-hmm.

... the walk off, so it paid off. We got to see that moment. And they haven't won since, huh?

No, they haven't won since.

So that's, uh, you know, anyways, that's a whole nother conversation.

it the last two days.

Yeah. Um, so anyway, Justin, we'll pitch this to you for the stretch time, what we're gonna talk about today.

Yeah. So just to familiarize you with the stretch time, it's, you know, only the second time we've done it. Um, so it's picking something that's going on in the sports world and stretch it. Could be inspirational, but probably a lot of fluff. So just something to have fun with.

Um, don't take us too serious on it. Um, we just, this is just to, to laugh a little and live a little, that's all it's for. Um, so the stretch topic today is long sporting events. All right? Since we've got this 18 inning World Series game, it's kind of fresh.

And how many hours was that?

Oh, I think it was, like, five or six hours.

Mm-hmm.

Um, the longest one was like a little bit, longest World Series game was also 18 innings, but it wasn't this one.

Well, honestly, the question I had is why they didn't, like, go another, like, put the game to another day the next game. 'Cause, I'm like, they literally went to that

They did.

and then they had to play again that night.

Because there's weather interruptions. This is a good question. So why don't they put, like, a time limit, and then, like, if it gets to that point, then they come back and play? You, you interrupt the game for weather and then they have to come back and play again sometimes.

Yeah, this is a

Or even if

Look, we're interrupting.

... nightmare.

Yes.

Not everybody has tickets for the next game.

but, and what I'm saying, like, if they went into... I don't even remember what night the game was on, but let's say it went into Tuesday morning. Instead of playing Tuesday, the next game, why didn't they push it back Wednesday, Thursday?

Because you've already had these things scheduled and people have

TV

and people are traveling there. There's a lot of money involved, and TV. Yes.

Okay, okay.

Yes.

Makes sense.

Yeah. Um, that would be a

... nightmare.

Yeah.

Actually, but, yeah.

We're just thinking about the moms.

Good question.

Yeah, I mean, I would've left. I sleep. I'm sorry.

I mean, you're welcome to leave.

Sleep. I mean, I would That's Justin's solution for I would have. Just leave. Thank

And you said the game was how long? Uh, was a little over I think, like, six hours.

It ended at like 2:00 said five minutes ago. I thought

what's a general, let's say, regular baseball game length of time?

Okay, so that's a good segue into that. So, um, normally it's over three hours, but they changed, they added the pitch clock. Hmm-mm. All right? Two years ago, which I was so against, because I'm just old school baseball guy. They just actually cut the time down to about two hours and 40 minutes, under that, close to two and a half hours, which has actually improved viewership by 34%.

Oh, wow.

It's also increased, um, attendance by 5% since they've been keeping track of it the last couple years. So, it was a great move by the commissioner. It's the reason why I'm now a commissioner.

Mm-hmm.

Um, it has sped up the game, which has been good for fans. Um, but yeah, pretty interesting.

Six hours and 39 minutes. Ooh.

Okay, there we go.

Officially on the timestamp.

Okay. That's good. I'm glad we

Which normally, you said how long is a game, normally?

Well, the reason why I was asking 'cause it's almost like they had two games, like you were saying.

Two plus games.

Two game two plus games in one.

Yeah. I would normally guess, what, like, three hours?

And and they worked out. I guess what you're talking about with the pitch time, it kinda goes into what we kinda talked about a bit last... Your attention span.

All right, Darius, what is your favorite sport to watch in person?

Football, basketball, pretty even.

Okay. So, what would be the max amount of time that, if you're watching a game and there was no limit on how, like, if it could just go into as many overtimes as possible, what hour mark are you saying, "I'm done"?

Are you meaning in person?

Yes.

Well... You saying what hour mark?

Yeah.

Uh, yeah, when we start getting four and five hours, now we really pushing it.

But do do you struggle with, like, "Oh, God, but I'm gonna, like, miss something if I leave?"

uh, sometimes. Now, I'm gonna say with the, uh, like Justin was saying earlier, with the change in the baseball rules, they also have changed football rules as well.

Right.

'Cause it's like, now you score, you got to go for, go for two, uh, in college. Um, they give them, you know, everyone had a chance, but it's now you have to go for two. And then once they get so far, it's just two-point conversions back and forth. So, it's like, you know, that, the They also changed stop clock, like stopping clock, uh, different spots.

Yeah.

Right.

So it come out real clear, but, like, just when to stop it.

Yeah, 'cause you kept saying to the TV the day, you're like... Stop the clock, it's a first down.

they're like, "No, it's not until minutes or something."

Yeah, got... Yeah.

Yeah.

So so that kinda influences, you know, the excitement, because you know the end is near. You just don't know when.

Yeah.

like, you but, um, so I think I could it just depends if it's action packed. And I'm gonna say this, if it's a team I like, I'm supporting, I think I can hold out to the end. But the timing, Yeah.

Like, uh, to watch a baseball game for six hours, they should've gave all of those fans something.

I know. I

I mean, coffee.

I was thinking about snacks.

Yes, I know. Something. Like, yeah,

For the players, for the fans. I was like, "What are they doing?"

'Cause you you think about the people who went with the idea of, "We're gonna leave the game to go eat at this restaurant."

That's right.

And then they just keep going. It's like, "Well..."

Concessions made a lot of money that night. That's right.

A lot.

Yeah.

It's a of beer.

And they just and they just looked they just

'Cause if don't have another filter beer at 1:00 AM... Ooh.

Yeah.

I I would hate for someone who was taking those to the head early.

Hmm.

And thinking you know,

Oh, man.

'Cause you know, it's like, oh, the night going end and then the next thing you know, it's like, another inning.

Yeah.

Another inning, and, "Can I get two more?" before you know it, you done

You didn't remember the ending.

almost wasted.

didn't the ending. He was staying in

may have even had an out at some point during that game.

Yeah. I was just thinking about food. I was like, the practicals, like, what do you start doing? I mean, and the people just look miserable. You know? Like...

I didn't think so.

I mean, some in the they're just, like, tired. They're just like, "Someone score."

But I think it comes down to this, that's the World Series. You paid a crap ton of money to buy a ticket. yeah. I ain't going anywhere.

Yeah.

Okay? Now, babysitter, if that's up.

Oh, man.

You know, if you had a babysitter that game, they're staying the night, it sounds like, but like...

Yeah.

You know, so there's some things there, but,

let's flip it around. What if it wasn't baseball? Yeah. What's what's one of your,

There you go.

not as fun sports to watch?

right, if it's a final in some sort of sport, and I paid a lot of money for it, I

You're in. So so money is a variable for you.

Oh, totally. Yes.

And situation. But you're more invested.

this the World Series. This is not like a pick-up game, uh, you know, in the neighborhood. This is the World Series.

Yeah.

So, it's like, hey, you you can't pass on that moment. The only World Series that involves Canada and the United States.

Right.

You're right. right.

Yeah, exactly.

You know, but yes. No, but I think, um, it is a World Series. If I was there, I wouldn't go anywhere. And I didn't go anywhere when I was watching it. And again, that falls more into being a baseball purist.

Yeah.

I wanna watch it. and if I I even mentioned the other day, if it was the previous series, like the ALCS, and it was, like, not game seven or something, going that long, I would've went to bed.

Yeah.

You know? But this being the World Series, you're like, "You know what? Why not?" Now, I felt it the next couple days.

Mm-hmm.

But I don't know. I think everybody's got their lines.

Yeah.

But I just I don't think... Unless you had an emergency and you had to leave the game, I just didn't see

Yeah. Well, I mean, Arizona State, when we played, I know that that wasn't, like, a long, drawn-out thing, but like, our fans were so invested.

Mm-hmm.

... that we sat in parking for, like, an hour afterwards. But, and I knew we could have avoided all of that if we had just left the game. But at the same time, I was in the stands and I'm

I'm not leaving.

"I don't wanna miss this." You know? So, um, and we had all our kids and it was late, but we were like, "Dude, we're doing this." Like, "We're gonna stay and see what outcome is." So, there have been some other examples of some really long... You talked about tennis, that one tennis match.

Yeah. So another long game that is recently, well, not recently, it was 2010 Wimbledon, um, tennis match, and it was between John Isner and Nicolas Mahut, um, and he is from France. Anyway, they battled for 11 hours ... actual play. 11 hours and 5 minutes.

Can you imagine?

So you're like, "Okay, how in the world did a tennis match go that long?" Well, in Wimbledon, the way they do the fifth set is they do not do a tiebreaker in the fifth set. So if you know tennis, tiebreaker is the first person to seven points wins the tiebreaker.

Okay? And it's done, and you have to win by two. So at Wimbledon, you have to win and by games, by two. So you have to like you would for a regular, without a tiebreak. And so it continued to go on. The last set went from, it was 70 to 68.

Okay.

So if you just calculate that, they pretty much played a whole nother match and a half just in the last set. Okay? It's craziness. And the fact that they continued to play and played well. I think they had 216 aces in the whole match. Right? And I think it's interesting too, like longest match, I watched some of it, I think, and then I didn't watch the rest that finished the next day.

But I remember being a part of that whole deal and remembering it. I remember John Isner very well, that name. John Isner never won a title, never won a major tournament. Had a very average, above average career, but he's not a top 100 player in tennis, you know, over however long.

It's not like he was so outstanding.

Mm-hmm.

but I remember John Isner's name. He was also like 6'8". He's a massive

wow.

which is not normal for tennis. But, you take a moment like that and you wanna be a part of it 'cause you're watching history. You know it's history.

Yeah.

you're blown away by the effort of both guys, continuing to play at such a high level. Um, and then, like, I just... I remember John Isner for that match only.

Yeah.

So in my mind, John Isner is like a legend.

Yeah.

And it had nothing to do with him winning. He didn't even win Wimbledon. They didn't have any legs left. Like, he was, he won

was done.

but he was done the next day. I think was long.

proves my point about the Dodgers losing two games after they...

Well, I mean, the Blue

They

went two days

True. Oh, good point.

You know.

But the Dodgers won.

So, okay, here it comes. are we losing our appreciation for something that lasts a long ... for a historic moment, for people putting in amazing effort and focusing and being able to do this for such a long time, because we got stuff to go do? Or whatever,

We can watch it later.

We can watch it later, because it's way easier to watch it later. Streaming is changing everything now. Um, and we have it so quick, we watch highlights of everything. Um, there's kids that watch highlights of NBA games, never watch the whole game, but they know every player. And they know it all because they've just seen enough highlights, um, from it, but they never sat and watched the whole game.

Mm-hmm.

So, like, that's just a thing now. And so...

Yeah. So I don't think it's that we have lost our appreciation. I think it's more a priority. I think, you know, with the game ending at 2:50 AM and I have to be at work at 6:00 I mean, I have to get up at 6:00 AM or earlier, I think it's kind of one of those things where I'm appreciative of this historic moment, but my life calls me...

I have to shut it down. It's, it's, you know, and it's,

Or you just know, or you just know when you go to get coffee, you're gonna get double, double shot or whatever.

Exactly. Yeah,

You gotta decide, what's the priority?

Get the

Right.

Watch this or caffeinate.

Yeah.

the discipline. You think, to go in your work the next day and tell your boss, "I was 30 minutes late 'cause I was watching Otani pitch and it was, I couldn't miss it." Like, you gotta think, like...

Right.

That's a, that's, you know... So sometimes I think it's not that we don't appreciate, I think it's more prioritizing. And then on the flip side, because they do allow everything to be streamed and I can go back and watch it, it kind of encourages me that I'm not gonna miss the moment.

No, I won't be in it at that time, but now I can just rewind my DVR back to 2:50

Right.

... watch the game. You know,

Yeah. I, one thing that I did notice about, like, if we think about just highlight clips, um, and it happened just that I was up anyway, so working on stuff, so I was, like, getting to catch some of the game. I would've probably gone to bed 'cause I was like, "If there's a, there's gonna be a walkoff, so I'll just figure it out and watch it tomorrow." But, there was a pitcher before, you know, for the Dodgers who had to, like, lock in and take care of, like, the inning.

And he was kind of on the brink, and a pitcher that had just pitched a complete game had gone up to the manager and was like, "I'll go in again." And so, they, you just have this situation coming and this pitcher, Klein, like just finishes the inning. And so for me, that moment was more impressive to, like, watch 'cause you see all this...

... pressure building and you're like, they're running out of pitchers, they're about to have to ... back to this guy. He's like, you know, gonna just do what he can, um, and he's making himself available. But like, that moment of watching what that pitcher did, and then, of course, Freddie Freeman hits that walk off, and that's awesome.

But like, that was a really... Like, I would have totally not seen that in a highlight reel, you know?

Yeah, like, and you would miss all that if you weren't watching the entire game if you

Yeah.

got the clips.

Yes.

Yeah.

And then Otani did hit two home runs and two doubles, and

insane.

they walked him the next five times. So he is the only player to reach on base nine times in a game.

Wow.

And it just happened to be in the World Series, just another record broken by that guy.

Yeah, so that was all in this one game.

One game.

So it's like the whole context of the whole thing was pretty wild, not just like how they ended up winning at the end of this crazy 18 inning game. It was like all these stories within the game.

All the amazing defensive points,

Yeah.

the pressure packed moments where pitchers had to make the pitch or hitters had to make the play, like, uh, the hit, or fielders had to make the play. So it's just so much.

And I do

It's about the 11-hour tennis match, like all, all the pressure hits that you have to make and plays to get to 70 to 68 in the fifth set.

Yeah.

The precision is what's, I mean, like, crazy, especially like in baseball, like you have... I mean, it's just every single person making every single play they need to make. You just

Yeah.

I mean, that's a level of excellence that, yeah, I mean, you have

Nobody

... is that priority to watch?

Nobody scored any runs in innings.

Darius is shaking his head.

Like,

No.

... any runs in extra innings. It was, it wasn't And those are fun too when one team scores and the other team scores and it goes back and forth. But, you know,

But I think it goes back to when he said earlier, uh, it's the World Series.

Yeah.

So I feel like the investment, even the priority, all of that is gonna be circumstantial.

Yeah.

You know, this is

Subjective.

a regular yeah, it's a regular game. But you know, this is the World Series, you're talking about the finals or something of that nature, I think that kind of influences if I'm gonna have the patience and the determination. 'Cause even with sacrifice, it's based on circumstance. I may sacrifice this time I'm gonna lose of sleep because of the World Series.

Yeah.

But like he said, AL or what? ALCS?

ALCS, yeah. Those championship series before that.

that big of a baseball.

Well, Darius, we're flipping on you, you being a basketball fan, okay? The longest NBA basketball game went six overtimes back in 1951, okay? Would you, if it was the finals, would you stay up and watch a six overtime finals game?

You said what year?

That was back in '51.

So I think was the year the TVs cut off. No, no, no, but no, 'cause I think over time is only like, what, five minutes? So you gotta think, that's an extra 30 minutes.

Oh, no, no, that's definitely gonna over timeout.

No, no, no, I'm saying like I know that it's gonna be more than 30 minutes, but I'm saying 30 minutes, quote unquote, of game clock. So I think I could do that 'cause I mean, that's and then I, again, it's a sport I'm interested in. It's a sport I like.

Mm-hmm.

You know, so you wanna see, you know, 'cause I don't know if you remember this, I'm glad we're talking about it. When Alabama, a few years ago, their players fouled out, like like two or three players got kicked out of the game and then two players fouled out. They were literally on the court playing five against three.

Wow.

This was a few years ago?

Yes.

Okay.

Yeah.

and they was playing five against three and one of the guys that was on Alabama's team, he was always known, they actually called him Young Bull 'cause he's like a bull. He he was very determined when he's playing. Collin Sexton is the name.

Okay.

And so he is very known for like being an intense competitor, and it's almost like I was locked in because his competitiveness went up knowing that his team only had him and two other guys against five.

That's insane.

and to see it, it was like he lived up to the nickname. But I think they ended up losing, but it was just the aspect like I was drawn in 'cause like you said, sometimes, uh, the things that we, a person just see the highlights don't see. I think knowing, like you were talking about the pitcher.

Yeah.

what he's having to push through, sometimes that is enough to keep you engaged.

Yeah, sure.

Like when... To see this guy going against, like he was literally going against five, he's scoring, he's stomping his feet and he's like, come on. Breathe.

Yeah.

And so now I'm like, come on.

Right.

Hit them. I don't like, I don't think... I don't root for Bama in nothing, but that day I was a roll tide fan. Come on.

Let's go.

But I think they, I think they ended up losing

They lost by five points.

Oh, wow.

That's something. Yeah, I'm telling you, it was, it was intense to watch. And that was infuriating.

I might have to go back and watch that game.

was, who was the other coach?

Despite the disadvantage, they outscored Minnesota in that stretch.

Wow.

Nearly made a comeback.

And that coach made five on three drills all the next week.

Right.

Like what in the world? We can't beat three people.

We got to prepare for everything.

Yeah. I would have loved to be a walk-on.

Yeah, good

You know, by the time you would have got it.

That's right. That's hilarious. That's hilarious. Brandi, you were making a point about the instant gratification of clips. You want to say that before we...

Yeah, I just think like because we can see all the little clips and stuff, like it makes us to where we don't watch the whole game. So we miss a lot of the process. And like y'all were talking about, like you don't see the grind that people have to put in and like all the problems that they have to solve to make it work.

Right.

You just

Right.

...

Right.

You know, who's who's out at the end, who's on top. Like that's all you see is the best plays. And that's not always the best part of the game.

Right.

The best play.

Yeah, 'cause even if the Dodgers lose, I think I will remember this game, not because we had to stay up, but because I did catch several of those things that happened that set them up.

Yeah.

somebody was gonna break through. was gonna be either team and both teams were making crazy... Was that the the like-... the game two where the guy comes across, slides, catches the ball, threw it to third.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

It's crazy. Like, you're like the amount of... They make it look so easy, but like, the pressure of the

Yeah.

plus like this crazy, like, move that he made, and then to throw an accurate throw. Third baseman catches it and tags it. Like, uh, the whole thing, I was just like... And I'm not even a big baseball fan.

Yeah.

Justin will tell you, I'm like, "Eh."

Well, but I think, I think the, like what Brandy was saying, and even to the point of Justin, like, the clips remove the depth of the moment.

That's for sure.

Which cause us sometimes to not respect or honor the abilities of, of the past.

Huh.

You know, you talk about a baseball player back in the day, who we don't get a chance to see but through the small clips, and it's like, "Yeah, but you don't know when they were down, how his demeanor was," 'cause we're not l-... We don't see none of that.

The only thing we see is when he got up, either struck someone out, hit the home run. Like, you

Right.

... see the small things that make people great.

Mm-hmm.

Which, you know, you was talking to your part earlier, talking about the phones. Like, I feel like it, that, that instant gratification sometimes keeps us from being able to really respect the people in the fullness of the journey.

Mm-hmm.

It's like, you saw this team come back, uh, within the last... I'm a Duke fan. I think one game they had in the tournament, they came back like down 10 with a minute. But it's like watching the game and seeing that they didn't have... They had every reason not to fight.

Was nothing, nothing was going their way, and yet they came back in the last... Like, it makes you really respect how they came back at the end, you know? So I think that's something that we miss today too, just the highlights, you know. And, and I'm a sports guy.

I can't stand talking to somebody and they only saw the highlights, but they talking like they watched all game.

Yeah.

I'm like, okay then.

didn't see it. You, you, you You don't know what I'm talking about. You don't know what I'm talking about.

Even like a, like a track shot out here, you know, you watch somebody, they have like, you know, three or four attempts to get the jump.

Mm-hmm.

You know, and then you don't see what they fight through to get to that jump.

Yeah.

like, "Oh, it's on their final attempt," and you see the, the nice jump, and you're like, "Awesome," but you didn't see the Just the stuff they had to work through, the mental hurdles they had to get through of like, they almost didn't make the finals and they were picked to win.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Because they had to make this jump right here.

Even on the stage, like on a massive stage like the Olympics, you know, it was like, you have the pole vaulter who broke the record or

Mm-hmm.

he's broken it multiple times, but I remember he, he was the only one left, like there was no other events going on. The entire stadium was completely filled. Every single eye was on him, and he's like... And like people are clapping and cheering. And like, he, like I just...

Watching that does something to you, 'cause I'm like, it's not just that he, yeah, like he made this jump, but like the circumstance he was under.

Yeah.

The ability to have the mental ... and to like hit that height in front of that many people,

In front of the world.

While

Yeah, I mean... yeah, and then, yeah, people tuned in or whatever, and so it's incredible.

Incredible.

Okay, well, that was a stretch today, um, just talking about longest games. There's a lot of... If you just Google that, you'll find some other,

169 hour Monopoly game.

Yeah, Justin

I would for sure get involved.

... into the Oh, yeah. Monopoly, man, that definitely has a time limit. I can't, I can't. Um, so we're gonna transition to relationships. That's been our theme. We've been talking about focus and distractions. Um, and so we'd talked about how relationships can be distracting as well from our focus.

Um, and just, I was just talking to some students this week, and the amount of... And this just shows our age too, um, so if you're younger and you're listening, you know, just give us some grace, but just how much they navigate what I say is an innuendo, like this, like very ambiguous, elusive space of like interpretation, you know.

Like, um, somebody was saying that they got double snapped or something, and like, "You should know not to do that," or whatever. And I was like, and that multiply that by all the

Yeah.

my personal interactions, like how many little things are like you have to

Yeah.

and like how much that can distract you from just doing your homework, doing your sport, 'cause you're like, "Did this person mean this or that?" Like, there's so many different inputs for that, where I was like, man, back in my day, it's like you just... If somebody walked past you and they'd say, "Hey," like it was body language or it was actual, like

Yeah.

not all these platforms and stuff you have now. Oh, man, I was like, "That's too much." Like, that's a lot on you to have to like figure out, and then you're wondering about it all day. I don't know if guys are like that, but I know that's very distracting for, for females.

Um, but anyways, so we're talking about relationships and healthy relationships, and that's why, um, Shayla talked about relational attachments the other night at FCA. But I just thought it would be fun to share a few of our own flops, fails, maybe

Mm-hmm.

in relationships.

Yes.

Um, Justin and I met at Mississippi State, and so we have plenty of stories about that, but anyway, you can jump in if you wanna share, um, any of those fun stories that you have. Maybe any lessons you learned. Any advice you could give, but, um, yeah. Fun stories.

... we've all got them.

I can break the ice with a flop. I was, uh, I don't know, 16, I think? 17? Um, in a relationship with a friend from church. Awesome girl. Great friend. Um, we all went on a church trip. I was with my youth group.

Those church trips, man.

Church trips. You know? And I, for some

Tamps.

mean, was already kind of like... It was tough, I loved her family and all of it. And for some reason, I don't... I, I don't know. I decided to break up with

Oh.

on the church trip. In the mall.

Wow. Wow.

And so

What'd you

the rest of the church trip, as we're going to these

Excuse

we're all together.

money? Were you What? Were you loaning money?

No, it had nothing to do with the money.

. They didn't wanna borrow no more? into buying them, I'm just saying.

No. It was... I don't... What, what awful timing, and her mother was on the trip with us.

Oh, man.

Thankfully her mother was... Loved me and didn't rip me to shreds. Um, she could've, but I don't know what the heck I was thinking. That's the ultimate flop. I'm not sure why that happened. She's doing great. She's married. She's doing awesome. But like, I, uh... Yeah, I definitely, uh, went back later, I don't know how many years, at the

You didn't have a why?

I, I just didn't feel like we were...

.

We were friends. We were friends and

.

I didn't feel like... I don't know. I don't

Like, "I don't have a good answer for this because I don't ..."

No, it just wasn't because I woke up one morning going, "I just want this to be over with." And over

Well,

I just didn't feel like it was working out, and I was just stupid on the timing. Zero consideration of the .

Well, I, I'm gonna say this. I had a uh, a situationship. They gon', they c-, they That's a new term for everybody. They gonna know. A situationship. So, it was this young lady, I was in college and, uh, I, I just thought she was so beautiful. I was like...

So, I'm in class with her, I'm like, "I've got to get close to this young lady somehow." Mm-hmm. And you know how the teachers say, "Get with a partner." . Hey. I made my move. Hey. I beeline right to where she was. And so, uh, and the, and, and the, um, the assignment helped me out, 'cause the assignment was like, "What is your favorite color?" Like, so, I'm writing her favorite colors down on my paper and she's writing...

Yeah. You know? And so we're doing that. So I would... I got her phone number, and this is when I knew. We on the phone, and she's bringing up stuff, and I have no clue what she's talking about. So I was like, "Let me call you right back." I get off the phone with her.

Go Google what she saying. See what it is and then call her back acting like I know what... Oh my gosh. And after having to do that so many times, I'm like, "This is just too much work." Like, "We are not compatible." Well, what were, what were you googling?

Like, what is the things you didn't I'm really ashamed to say. Oh, okay. Nevermind. Uh, well, I can say this. One of was like, a marina. It's like a... I guess she was like, "We gonna be meeting on the marina." And I didn't have a

Marina?

Marina. So, I didn't have a clue what that was, and I'm like, "This is just too much. I cannot..." So, I just gave up. I'm like, "She's beautiful-" You're saying words I don't know. Yeah, yeah. like, "You're beautiful, but this is what..." I'm like, "Just-" Wait, did she like you?

where I draw the line." Did, well, did it become something? like this... Well, no, no, it didn't become anything 'cause I felt like, uh, I didn't just continue to pursue it. Mm-hmm. I felt like my personality, I think she liked that. And then the fact that she gave me her number.

Yeah. people, girls are not giving out numbers just because now, you know? So, I think she was interested, but it was like, "No, this ain't gonna... This is not gonna make it." Yeah. You know? And so I, I cut that off. And it was kind of awkward 'cause, you know, you see them and it's like, "Hey, how you doing?" But, you know, but that was just too much work.

When I couldn't answer any of her questions, we just were not compatible. You know? Can't have conversations, so, I cut it off. Now, I did have one situation. Now, this is a little more serious. I did have a young lady that, um, I thought I was gonna marry her.

I really did. I, like, I was... My mind was set up to marry her. Like, once we started dating, I knew I'm just graduating Like, this is what my timeline was. Graduating school, getting a job, getting a ring, and we getting married. So, I'm sold on it. And, uh, she just had too much trauma.

Like, it got to the point where I felt like, um, she was leaning on me to help heal her. And then, uh, she had some trauma from some of her parents, some of the things, and then I kinda, um... I guess reminded her of some of those things 'cause I was popular, her father was popular.

Um, connected to a lot of people, and just the trauma of what she saw in me kinda resembled some of the things. Even though I wasn't, you know, stepping out on her anything like that, but, um, I had to make a decision for me because me trying to be with her was killing me.

Me trying to... 'Cause it's like sometimes in relationships we try to be the answer, and people say stuff like, "Be his peace," or, "Be her peace." Right, right, right. And that's what I was attempting to do. And it was, it was... Man, I'm, I'ma be It, it's... Like, being honest.

Being honest. I'ma be honest. Man, it was, it was killing me. It was... Like, it was to the point where I lost me in trying to fulfill her. And it got... You know, it was so to the point where even... I remember, once we actually broke up, I had to break up with her for my health.

You know? And once we actually broke up, I was so used to, uh, giving something, giving to something that wasn't benefiting me, that, man, it took me a while to just re-find me. Yep. You know? And so I'm saying, like, a lot of times in relationship, I feel like that's what happens.

We look for so much fulfillment in what we're giving. You know, or even sometimes... I can say this. I don't blame her, because I knew, I didn't fully know myself, and that's why I was okay with being subject to so much, you know, of the pressure that I was having to feel.

But I also feel like we're on such, like, a timeline.

... like you were you knew you were about to get done with college. Like, I think that's such a real pressure,

Yes.

oh, it's coming into my senior year.

Is

need to get serious with somebody, like, almost forcing an

Right.

... and settling because we're trying to fit this certain timeline of things.

Family pressure.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah, that can be a thing too.

Why you not marrying yet? Really talk.

What's wrong with him?

Pressure.

You have a story, Brandi?

Um, I don't think... I was thinking ahead of, like, a funny relationship

Yeah, that's fine.

... um, with me and Brett, but so this... You know, you can do, take what you want with this, but so we were having our second child. Um, I had oxygen 'cause my blood pressure was dropping, and all of a sudden, I look over and Brett's, like, right beside my head and he's like, "I think I need to borrow your oxygen.

I'm about to pass out." And so, like, he has the... He gets my oxygen and puts it on himself. Well, I, like, start dying out laughing 'cause I'm like, he's over here about to pass

Right.

... and so he has my oxygen. So that was just a funny moment for us. Like, in the middle of having a baby, I'm, like, dying out laughing 'cause he stole my oxygen.

Yeah. Well, I have a funny story that I kind of, like, um, confused Justin because when we first started hanging out, he, uh... You might have to help me with this story, but we, like, played... There used to be a great place here called Bulldog Lanes and I had gone...

I think it was this night in particular, Justin was, like, on a road trip with baseball and I had invited him. I think it was around Valentine's?

Mm-hmm.

Maybe. And then, um, so the BSU was going to Bulldog Lanes to either go bowl, hang out, whatever. Well, when I got there, I was trying to be strategic 'cause I just wanted to hang out with Justin, but there's a lot of people that I knew there.

Yeah.

And so I was like... I told my friend, I said, "I'm not gonna bowl. I'm just gonna, like, wait till Justin gets here," because, like, there's this other section that has, like, pool, air hockey, like all that stuff. And so it worked out like I had planned. You know, a lot of things don't happen like that.

Mm-hmm.

But it did. He showed up. He was very tired, I think, too, because he had just come from a road trip. But he came anyways. And I was like, "Yeah, we can just play over here." Like, I didn't... We didn't sign up to bowl. But, like, he... This is the part you're gonna have to help me remember, is when we were playing pool.

Did I say something like, "You accidentally, like, missed the eight-ball or something?" 'Cause you were about to beat me. And I was like, "You better not be going easy on me."

Yeah. You got a little fiery on that. I was like, "Oh, man."

And we had just not really known each other that long.

I really didn't mean to miss that.

And, like, he ... talk about innuendos or like, you know, these, like, elusive moments. He had perceived that I liked somebody else and that, like, he was nervous about this moment where I was getting onto him because he was like, "What if that guy, like, went easy on her?" And that's why, like, they're not a thing.

That... Which never happened, but, like, that's what he's thinking. And so then he was like, "Dude, I gotta beat her." So that beat

And I have, not let up on you since.

That's right, because after our first, which, um... I don't know if this was before or after. I don't remember the timeline.

It was after.

We played racquetball?

Oh, maybe it was before.

Yeah, I don't know. No, I think it was after. But anyways, I don't know. But the timeline, weird, but, um, yeah, he... Like, we played racquetball and I had been playing, like, again, like, with some other guys, like, just from BSU, whatever. I kinda picked up the sport. And so I was like...

invited Justin to play, and then he smoked me. I did not score a single point. He... And so he took that serious.

Never played before.

Yeah. He had never played. This is what's so aggravating about Justin. If you play against him and it requires a racket or a paddle, like in pickleball, he doesn't have a backhand. He just switches hands. And so you can't get much around him. And so that was one of my earlier stories with Justin in particular, but I would...

I definitely was strategic about trying to, like, figure out, like, where he would be or, like, what we'd be doing to try to, like, cross his path. And, um, I was... You know, when we were at Mississippi College, um, there's two students who were on the leadership team and, and the girl was a part of a smaller group on the leadership team who she voiced, you know, how she liked this baseball guy.

And we were like, "Oh, let's help you out." ... we, like, were the ones responsible for planning for the weekly huddle. And there was this game we were gonna play that required one, two volunteers. And I don't know if you've seen it. It's like this spoon game. You put a spoon your mouth.

Like, if me and Brandi were playing and we're both playing against each other and, like, you had, like... Say Darius was behind you and Justin was behind me, they... Like, the joke is gonna be on one of the two people. So if the joke was on you, Brandi, you would put your head down with your spoon in your mouth, and the other person, me, I'd be like, "One, two, three." And try to hit your head with the spoon while it's in my mouth and, like, whoever bows out first loses.

Well, the joke's on Brandi because when she puts her head down, Justin actually has a spoon and pops her.

Uh-huh.

So then whenever you're going back and forth, like, you're like, "How are you hitting me that hard?" You know? And so we were like, "Let's get this guy." And she was like, "No, no, no. Don't do that. That'll embarrass me." we were like, "All right, look. There are two other guys that always...

Like, good-natured guys, like, they won't be upset if they get pranked, so, like, we'll, we'll call on them." ... them first or look for them, but we were like, "If they're not there, we're calling him up to that seat." So, of course, those two guys did not show up to FCA.

Wow.

So, we're like, "All right." And so we do that whole thing, and then the guy actually chips his tooth. Which is like...

no.

Yeah. And then, but anyways, after that, she was so funny because were going through A Song of Solomon series by Tommy Nelson, and he talks about that, like, the, it's okay to, like, cross their path or whatever.

Yeah.

And so she was like, "Bethany, guess who's going to 7:00 AM, uh, athletic training now?" 'Cause she had an injury, and, like, that's when he would show up to athletic training. And so I was like, "Let's go."

Which is not a morning person.

No.

Not even what she's like. And so then I would be "Careful."

"Did you talk to him?" She's like, "No, I chickened out. I couldn't do it." But anyways, they had a, like, a really cute, like, back and forth how they got together. But, um, so I've passed those skills on maybe a little bit.

Yeah. They did get married.

They did. They have four children. We just saw 'em this past week, so.

Four boys.

Uh, no. Three boys and a little girl.

They just had a little girl. Right. Wow.

Yeah. So, anyways. That was pretty

Justin had the sauce. Come on, Jay.

Who? Me?

Yeah.

No, I'm

She was trying to get in your... She was trying to get in the view. I'm just saying. That's, that, that accounts for something.

It, it didn't. He, he, yeah, was a little, uh, I don't know if he knew that that's what I was trying to do. I feel like you were a little oblivious for a little while.

Oblivious. Yeah, that's what I was gonna say.

But yeah. I mean, we're here, so...

Yeah.

Something worked.

I had zero game.

Who is he?

Actually talked about getting a girl's phone number, so the first time I hung out with Justin was, we were... Well, we met at FCA, but I, anyways, I had a crush on somebody else at the time. But

My teammate.

Yeah. Okay. Anyways. I knew

Wow.

as teammate first. So, but Justin got my number 'cause he was asking people to come support his friend that was playing the guitar and singing, um, at a local pub that's not here anymore. But anyways, the, he was... So I thought the friend would be there. And so I was like, "Hey, Justin, I'll come." Like, so it wasn't necessarily for Justin, but it was to, like, cross paths with his friend.

And so Justin was like, remembers like, when he got my ph-... He was like, "A girl is giving me her phone number right now." Like, "What is happening?"

Yeah. I had to do a game. And people are probably like, "What's a pub?" I mean, I don't know what that is either.

Yeah.

But yeah, I wasn't gonna say anything. I was thinking that.

Oh, really?

You don't know what a pub is?

Like a morena?

Like a morena.

What is a pub?

It's a bar.

Oh, okay.

It's a place to eat. A little more food-oriented, I think, if you go pub.

I think it's not there anymore.

No.

If anybody's listening that remembers

Polliwogs.

Do you re-... Polliwogs. I do remember

Over by ?

Yeah, they had a great salad bar, and I didn't even like salads.

See? Salads.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah. Which, we were conflicted because we were like, "This setting," whatever. But anyways, I showed up, and Justin was the only... He invited a bunch of people.

Yeah, I thought people from church were coming too, but they, uh, they sold me on.

And then he probably thought I was coming for pure motives, but I was coming to see his friend, and his friend wasn't there.

Yeah.

So then it just ended up being me and Justin.

Me and Bethany sitting there drinking our waters. Hour and a half later...

Then I told him I had to get

...

for basketball curfew.

And then we played racquetball the next day.

And that's what's up.

I went home that night to tell my roommate, "I think I found the girl I'm gonna marry."

Aw.

Really?

That's

There we go.

Wow.

... you know, however many years ago. Yeah, 16. 16.

We've been married for almost 17.

I was about to say. Yeah, almost 17.

17 in December is married, so it has to be longer than

Well, yeah, I meant anniversary. But yeah. Yeah, okay.

I

Do what? Okay, so the question as we... We're gonna land this plane, but before we get there, um, relational attachments. So Shay talked about healthy ones and non-healthy ones, and how you tell the difference. So I just wanna kind of open the floor for like, what is the... How do you tell the difference?

What have you learned from the Lord about these from experience, from the Bible, anything like that, that you wanna share about how do you recognize and build healthy relationships, attachments, versus non-healthy?

Well, I'll say I loved how she brought up, like, friendships with Jonathan and David in the Bible. Like, I never really had... I thought about it as far as like, they had such unique friendship since Jonathan's dad didn't like David. But I was like, you know, that really was like, they were building each other up, but he was also, like, protecting David in the process.

I never really thought about it like that from just a friendship aspect, not like a marriage aspect.

Yeah, yeah. How did you recognize, Darius, that this was happening with that girl? Like, that she was relying on you, and you were having to, like, give so much of yourself?

I, I started to recognize I wasn't as happy. Um, it was pressure to be in a relationship. Um, it's like, why is something, um, that is, that should be gratifying and for me, why is that so challenging?

Hmm.

Why is it so hard? And we understand relationships, uh, will have moments of hardship, but when the hardship is, um,

overriding the happiness, the hardship is overriding the joy, the peace, it's, it's, okay, it costs too much. Like, this is not, uh, something that is, uh, beneficial, you know. And I had to realize that. Like, I had to be able to take a step back and then to realize like, um, Justin talking about just getting with people who can hook

Mm-hmm.

... into things.

Mm-hmm.

Um, I felt like that's what I had been. I had been, um, uh, used as a person to kind of temporarily bring relief, but I realized in that situation, it was something that God needed to do for that individual. And that was something that was much bigger and greater than me.

And then to also, like you said, to realize that, um, I have... I'm a giver. I have something to give, but also, I just believe this. You know, you should be a benefit to a person, and you should also be benefited by that person. When it's a relationship, it's reciprocity.

And I didn't have that, you know. And I, it took me to get around someone who was...... in a healthy relationship for me to see it, and then also, um, someone who, uh, actually committed, 'cause some people actually made a greater commitment and had to kinda experience what I was experiencing on the other side of being married.

Like, and now, you know, and

Yeah.

I was given good advice. Um, and so now, like, what heals me now is God.

Mm-hmm.

Like, I, I feel like anything that pulls me away from Him, anything that takes my attention away from Him, even the, the area of wanting to grow in my relationship with Him, and I got something that is just really impeding that, then a lot of times, for me, that's something that I'm gonna really take to God and say, "Okay, Lord," even if it's friendship, uh, it

Right.

... to just be relationship. It could be friendship. 'Cause some people we like.

Yeah.

We really like 'em, you know? It's... But it's like we like them, we like 'em, but they're not, they're not beneficial for where you're going, what you're trying to do. You know, she talked about, uh, Jonathan and David, and one thing I, I take from that, like, back in those times, the king's son would be the one that would be the next king.

So for Jonathan to have enough humility and, and I'm gonna say this, openness to realize, "What's next is not me. It's for my for my friend."

Yeah.

"And I'm gonna protect him. If my dad is going to get him over here, I'm gonna send my friend over..." Like, that says a lot about Jonathan as a person, and, and I try to have those same, uh, makeup when it comes down to me in relationships. You know, relationships, friendships, what have you.

And so, I, I will say, I think a lot of people get mixed up 'cause we, we just look too much for relationships to be fulfilling. We look too much for them to give us things that sometimes only God can give, and then this is what I do know.

God know we need relationship. You know, He told Adam, "It's not good for man to be alone." So He knows what we need. That's why if you go through Him, He's gonna connect you with the people and with the, the different relationships that will, uh, help you to become everything you need to be, and also, with people that you can give your gifts to to help them to become what they need to be,

Yeah, I mean, I'm, uh, I'm impressed with your story because, like, it took... And you mention it, like someone having gone through that, uh, on another side kind of give perspective, um, and some other things, like, I think that for some people, they might think, "I just need to dig in, and I just need to commit harder or go stronger at this." Um, which can just lead to more pain and frustration, so it's like one of those things where, yeah, talking to people, getting some other perspective is helpful because...

Yeah.

And I was gonna say with you and Justin, y'all have, y'all have been married longer than me and my wife, I'm pretty sure Brandi, you and your husband. Like, what I've learned, and I say this to young people all the time, you don't have to learn by trial and error all the time.

Yeah, that's good.

lessons can be taught while others are, can be bought.

Right.

I'm like this. You know, 'cause I... Being in ministry, you encounter so many people who have, uh, done things that they're not proud of or maybe in tough situations, and sometimes they kinda feel like, "Well, what's the use?" But I tell them, "Your struggle can be strength for somebody else."

Yeah.

Like, where I missed it here, and I feel like that's a trick of the enemy to kill and sever relationships, even between generations, 'cause now you have a lot of people trying to figure it out on their own.

Right.

And don't realize you're gonna save yourself a lot of headache and heartache just listening and talking to somebody else that you can trust, and realize this. I'm not trying to control you. I'm trying to help you to not go through some of the pitfalls that I went through, 'cause I think sometimes when you're dealing with different one...

Yes, we all have a story. Yes, we all will make it, but sometimes I'm learning this. Some of my young people can't endure what I had to endure.

Yeah.

They, they won't be able to take it. You know? And it's... So it's like this. My protection for them is to say, "Listen. Don't fall to this. Learn from me. This is what I did. This is how I messed up." And I even with the podcast, like with us sharing, you know, prayerfully someone can hear these things as, and kinda analyze, and then say, "You know, maybe...

I may be dealing with..." 'Cause that person that I went to, they end up getting a divorce, you know, because they were just in something, trying to be something for a

Mm-hmm.

... that they couldn't... You, you can't outperform someone else's hurt. You can't outperform it. You can't out-serve it. I know a lot of times when... But sometimes, like God started telling me, He said, "You're a servant. I'm a Savior. It's only so much you can do."

Right.

so, I learned that the hard way, and to that, to this day, that young lady, you know, I I mean, we still... You know, I we still cool, you know, but Santana, man, it's almost like everything I didn't have, I got with Santana and some. That's why we was talking about timing earlier, I think Justin said it on the last podcast, we, we rest in God, timing is in His hand.

You don't have to race against a clock 'cause God knows what we need 'cause He, He showed me that with Santana. Everything I didn't have, I, I got that. ... answer.

Which is Darius's wife.

Oh, yeah, that's my wife.

Yeah.

I'm sorry.

Yeah, shout-out to Santana.

Yeah, I think for me, I, um, I needed to learn how to be a really good friend, I think, before stepping into any kinda relationship.

Yeah.

So like, my friends in the communities I was involved didn't make me whole, the Lord did. But in that process, the Lord used those people to bring wholeness in my life, um, and to show things about me too. Like just getting to people and serving and becoming a good friend and engaging in, in the, just the activities and being around people and those things, you start learning what is healthy friendship.

And so, uh, and then you start... For me, I had to, like, learn how to trust myself. I didn't have a great, um, necessarily relationship past where I was like the, the great leader. Like, how am I gonna lead somebody if I can't even lead myself, for one?

Yeah.

Uh, you gotta

Correct.

what am, what am I actually becoming?

Mm-hmm.

What am I becoming? And you gotta have a honest, like, conversation with yourself on that and with the Lord of like, is me being with this person producing something that I really wanted to be? And

Wait, can I say something about that? Like, I... And that does happen often, where people, you know, have discussions with you, whatever, and it's like, they're not... They want something that they're not.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

You know what I'm saying?

Yes.

And so instead of, when you talk about focus and distractions, it's like, if you focus on that, like, who you want that person to be, like, you focus on being that, and then you're gonna attract that person, you know?

Yeah.

But it's like, they know, well, like, "I'm not in the best spot, but this is what I really want." And then it's like, there's this discrepancy. So, anyway.

Can I say this too? Like, he was talking about being a good friend and how his friends kinda helped... God used his friends to help bring and produce wholeness. Uh, one of the things that I think that we have to look at too, because it's like this with... When it came down to me and Santana, initially she wasn't my type.

Like, I... She was not somebody I would've initially have gone for, but I even say this 'cause sometimes we have, have to filter our wants and desires even with God. Because what we may initially think we want, as we grow closer to God, He started revealing to us who we really are, who we like, the partner we have to have for our journey.

You know, I think about Brandy' husband is a, uh, a football coach. Well, I've been around her for a while, and I can tell she has the makeup to be able to handle a man in that type of environment. And I'm saying that's a very big thing, you know, 'cause he's around a lot of people.

A lot of his time is gonna be given to his occupation. And so, I'm saying that because even as we are journeying and getting to know ourselves, I think that that's something that God showed me. I'm gonna say this quote. Now, this may not be popular for everybody, but I have to say this 'cause it was something that resonated with my heart and changed my mind.

And I'm gonna say it changed my life 'cause that's what opened the door for Santana. Me and Santana were friends. We were spending a lot of time together here at Mississippi State, you know, but it was like, she wasn't my type. So, there was a part of me that just wasn't open to her.

And I heard this quote at church one night. Um, he said, the, the, the preacher said, "Sometimes God will put what you want in a package you don't desire to see if you're looking for Him." Now, when I say that, I'm not saying just go out and... I'm not saying looks don't matter.

I'm not saying that. But what I am saying is sometimes we can miss the treasures of a field 'cause we can't get over the issues of them.

Mm-hmm.

And sometimes God... You know, I realized this, what I felt like I didn't want, I realized was what I needed, which actually was what I actually wanted.

Right.

So.

Yeah. Well, my eyes were so jacked up, I didn't realize how great Bethany was, and I wasn't looking for somebody like a Bethany.

Wow.

Until I sat down and talked with her an hour and a half, and then it was like the Lord just kinda...

Wow.

Like, pulled back the blinders and was like, "See, this is really-"

Exactly.

This is it right here."

Yes.

And, um, and I think we miss that. We get exposed to so much crap. It's

Y'all did.

as, as guys, it's thrown in front of our face, and we have these expectations of what our wife is supposed to be and look like and all these things. And, and I missed the gem that was right front my face, you know? And so... Um, and then still had to fight through that a little bit, like, before we officially started dating, 'cause I I was...

Well, this doesn't... It, was, it was clear this is the person that I need to, need to be with.

So, one of the things that I was thinking about how you tell the difference between a healthy and a non-healthy relationship is, does this relationship, like, move me emotionally? Like, if, if something happens, can this so disrupt my day if this person does this or says this? Could be an indication.

Maybe it's not, you know, set-in-stone, like, rule, but could this be an indication that there's some place in me I've let this person get to that they don't, they shouldn't have access to, or shouldn't? And so, um, just kind of, like, noticing that, like, taking the time to notice, like, I, I'm in anxiety now, or I'm in fear now because this was said or done.

Like, anyways, it's just an indication, like, something might be there to, like, explore. So, after meeting with, like, a lot of girls through the years, college girls, you know, they're always wanting this, like, list. They have this ambiguous list. I don't know where we get this list from, but it's about, like, what...

I think it's somehow to make us feel confident and, like, that we're not gonna get hurt or something, but, like, about a man being a spiritual leader and, like, what that all entails. And I guarantee you, if a girl's looking for that, she's got a picture, and she's got a Mm-hmm.

Like, she will tell you. She will articulate this list. Um, and so one of the things, uh, talking about what we focus on, that I've encouraged girls with, because they will. They will bring me... "You know, he does this. He looks like this. He can do this. He can't do this." And I will ask, like...Is he humble?

Is he teachable? Because to me, walking with Justin for almost 17 years in marriage, that's been the number one thing. Like, we might, at different... We might learn at different paces. We might grow at different ways. We have different backgrounds. We have

Definitely learn it.

Preferences, whatever it may be. But it's like this ability to stay teachable and humble, and not like just get so fixated or like stuck in the mud, like this is what... And so there can be some of those ditches, I think, um, for people that... Like, if you say, "He has to be like this," and it, and it looks like X, Y, and Z, you could miss the spiritual leader God has for you, because he doesn't fit this like exact

not there yet. You know, like you're, you're trying to force

But then that also assumes that I'm there.

Right.

And that's why I think it's pretty... Like it kind of is

Yeah.

you know, that we carry around these like lists in our head. I don't know if guys have a

Yeah.

... or if it's just like one or two things y'all are looking for. But like, it can be an extensive thing. So just to encourage anybody out there, like I think if, if this person is humble and teachable, you don't have to fear them like not being aware of something or whatever.

Like, 'cause that's what I, uh, at least in my own life, but also listening to stories, like pick up on is like, there's this hint of like, "I wanna make sure I don't get hurt, or I'm not misled, or I'm not..." Whatever.

Yeah.

so then we put all these, "Well, if we have this, this, this, and this, I can almost guarantee..." And it's not a guarantee.

Mm-mm.

Like if they don't have a ... in their heart or teachable spirit, it's gonna be pretty hard to walk with that person, no matter how much they know, have experienced, whatever. So that's my two cents on that.

Yeah.

Um, Brandy, do you have anything?

No, I think that's good. I can agree with that for sure.

And it's fun to watch. I mean, it's, it's fun to have that space where in a relationship, whether it's a friendship or it's like with a potential spouse like that, you, you can feel the difference when you... There's that space where there's like room and no pressure to be or grow at a certain rate, you know?

Yeah.

And, um, I... 'Cause I know I've been guilty of that for Justin, you know? We've had to learn what that looks like.

No. So, uh, I, I wanna go back, you know, and just factor in something like Brandy said, 'cause that could be, uh, the realization for a lot of people, uh, especially males, young men, they're not there yet.

Yeah.

And sometimes you don't wanna be, uh, you don't wanna be guilty of missing out on something or overlooking something 'cause they're not in that stage of life just yet. You gotta... As Justin said earlier, we got a lot of distractions that the young people are going through, um, college athletes.

You know, and then too, it's... I don't... They haven't said this as a fact, but I can about hang my hat on this. Women mature quicker than men. Like they're... Your, your mind is thinking about certain things much quicker than ours. So a lot of times it does take us a little time.

Now I will say this, uh, Bethany, I think you've given them great advice, uh, 'cause you have to... There are certain characteristics and certain traits that you can look at and kind of say they're not there, but they get there by being humble. Right, Right. Well, yeah, because what if you create this checklist, like they have to read their Bible every day, they have to pray, they have to do this, but they're just doing it, you know?

Like that's no transformation on their Right. ... or their part. So like really what are they becoming? Yes, Like, like just what you want them to be? we checked it off the list. yeah. And then not, not just checked it... Well, well, I'm, I'm gonna let you go, but not just checked it off the list, but what if you have someone who is...

They wanna be taught, they are very, uh, caring, they are very attentive, but they may not be in that space of their relationship with God yet.

Yeah.

Yeah. And what I'm saying is they may not even be reading. Right. But they have certain things they're coming to... And I'll use an example at FCA. They're coming to FCA, they're starting to get inquisitive. You notice they're asking questions, they're staying later. Uh, they're doing small things, like always looking out.

Like, I'm just saying, those, those are signs that we can at least... This is a foundation. Right. Because if Santano would've judged me off who I was at the time when we first started talking versus who I am now, and that's why I tell people... Because I, I tell people this, "Who you see now is the manifestation of a lot of work she helped me to do." Yeah.

She was willing to be patient. She was willing... And then I'm gonna say this. And then too, you, you talk about the leader aspect, but sometimes I feel like that could be a little scary 'cause it's like, do you want to be carried? Yeah. Or you get what I'm saying?

That's are you, are you looking for somebody to, quote unquote, carry you? No. You know, or... Yeah. I mean, I'm just saying

"I'll be real."

because it goes back to like what you ... earlier, Bethany. Some people want things from a, a counterpart that they're not doing themselves. And I, I just believe this. You, you, you can tell who you are based off who you're attracting. People that have a standard, people that have that godly...

And I'm saying pursuing that, they not being overly pursued a lot of times by a lot of fluff. 'Cause guys know, we know when a young lady is not playing that or when she's focused Yeah. it's like, "No. Well, we ain't..." And ... use even trying 'cause we know where she stand.

Right, yeah.

But you kind of attract

That's point.

You know, I'm, I'm saying to sometimes to look in the mirror

Yeah.

if I keep attracting this same type of thing, what am I giving

Yeah.

that, that causes them to feel so comfortable with, I'm in the realm of possibility?

Right. Yeah.

Bethany, you mentioned the list and, uh, of what girls may have for guys to meet and all that. And I, I would say, probably with Darius, we would agree that our our list is very simple.

Very. Very.

And we don't realize before it becomes... Yeah. Or later on, it becomes more complicated.

Yes.

Yeah, 'cause we're idiots. But, ... um, but in this, uh, I think the older generation does this by accident. Uh, you know, there's books out there. Sometimes a book

Take off.

take a generation down this whole dating trail.

That's right.

Like, uh, Kiss Dating Goodbye is one of those. And a lot of people were, like, revolting against that of, like, "It's just whatever."

Right. was great until wasn't.

Great until it wasn't. But I remember being at an event with you. We were early married, I think, and an older couple gets up there and they were just like, "Man, we just have the sweetest time together. We, every morning, we get up and we go sit down on that swing.

We read our Bibles and we pray together. And, um, he blesses me and prays for me, and, and we are... And I do that and we... And then we go about our day and it's just the sweetest time." A retired couple. "It's great and I just think that's the way you're supposed to lead." And we completely miss about what was it like beforehand?

Right.

Like, and then so as a young kid, you listen to that and you're going, "Oh, I gotta do that with him." And so you get that, and then the girls hear it and they go, "Oh, I need a man that does that for me." And

That's right.

we get that. And so it gets planted in there and we don't have these real conversations about humility. Are they teachable? Are they fun to be around in other with other friend groups? Like, do you trust them? Like, are they taking you where they want go?

Are they the same person?

Are they the same person? Are they committed?

Yeah.

Yeah. Like, just things. Like, is this person making you better? Is

I hate to break it to anybody, but I've met people who do all the things, spiritual things, and they are not those characteristics that we

Oh, God. That is not a slam dunk.

Yeah. It's dunk.

It's not a slam dunk.

right.

And, and they could be having those kinds of spiritual conversations with all kinds of people and so they're connecting with others on things that you, that's just not gonna be healthy. Anyway, um, and I get a lot out of that. Some people get a lot of, um, energy off of that.

And, uh, and so you just gotta be, careful with that. Anyway, it, that's where it comes from, I feel like. And it's

I think that there's one, this one time in our relationship, Justin, where I was like, "Why can't we do X, Y, and Z like so-and-so?" And you were like, "Because we're not them." Yeah.

Wow.

And I think that's a good point of just giving both people the space to, like, individually, like, who are you becoming? Like, I'm gonna give you that space as we seek the Lord. But then also, like, if you end up, if it leads towards marriage, what are we going to produce together that is unique, that doesn't have to look...

Like, we can learn good practices, skills from other people, but that doesn't necessarily mean we have to be a ... of that, you know? Um, so I think that kind

I would say it like this. Be influenced, but not... Uh, let other people influence you, but don't idolize them.

Yeah. Yep.

Because, like you said, you have to create, you know, something of your own and then, too, you was talking about those things and even as Justin was talking about it, y'all been married a time. You know this. People change according to seasons.

Right.

Yeah.

Of life.

Right.

You know how you were before

Mm-hmm.

versus when you first have a kid, you know, like, it... And I, and I think that with Justin making a statement, we have to be, get back to allowing things to be comfortable with just the conversations.

Mm-hmm.

Why is my list this?

Yeah.

Where did this come from?

Right.

And then if this is my list, is it healthy?

Right.

And, then I'm gonna say this. Is it fair?

Is fair? I like that. I like that so much.

'cause I, where I work, I work with more women, right? So I'm in a... They having an intense conversation one time and talking about, "Well, this man got to do this, this, this." And I'm sitting up here saying, I said, "The... My only issue with this..." No, no and I'm just telling the truth.

Yeah. Yeah.

Is the most people that are looking for a 10 out of 10 things on a list think that they are 10 out of 10 themselves. Like, like, like you act like this guy got to be this as if you are... You know, and I wasn't saying it to be disrespectful.

Right. Sure.

But I'm saying we make statements about the opposite person as if we're coming to the

With everything.

... with everything. It's like, no, every... It's gonna be a, a, a, a compromise, a healthy compromise on both sides. That's what helps you to kind of give people room to grow, you know? And so I, I do feel like because we're talking to a lot of, with student athletes, people in college.

I just will say this. Don't put the pressure on you in courtship.

Yeah.

Like, just because you're courting someone, you're getting to know them, you know, you're going through transitions. I know you was talking about, uh, 'cause, 'cause I, and I'm, I'm, sad to say it, but I've seen people do it, young ladies and young men. Once they know that they have a grip on a person, they will use it and manipulate it.

Yep.

It's like, I will cause you to be down just 'cause I know I have that influence on you.

Yep. Yeah.

And it's like, that's not healthy. So I'm saying releasing their pressure of, "Just 'cause we're dating," does not necessarily saying this is the person you're gonna marry.

Yeah.

You know, they are in the seat, but that's what you date for,

Yeah.

... to see. And, and it's okay if this is not the person for you. I wouldn't be upset with it 'cause that means there's somebody greater. You may not be in that space now, but I'm saying, like, why you in this... Like, just don't put too much 'cause I feel like some of them are

pressure.

'cause they put so much pressure on theirself and then giving themselves the things that they gonna have to deal with when that person is gone.

Right. Yeah,

know? So I'm sorry if I'm going on that tangent.

No, that's fine. I just had one more question because this is, like, for contrast because I, I know that this comes up. Brandy, I don't know if in talking with girls if this has come up for you. But girls do the... This is what I've heard...... a lot, is that a girl, like, they'll imagine a future together with this person.

Do guys do that too? I you said, you said you, "You met me." And then you went home and said, "I think I've..." But did, but I'm talking about

No, I didn't

Right.

be.

Like, ruminating in that

No.

and living in that picture. Do guys do that?

I, I did. I, I'm gonna say this. I, I'm, I didn't, but I did have an idea of what I would want at

Sure.

certain time.

But you didn't meet someone and then be like, like, get so, after like one or two times of hanging out or whatever, like imagine your future, where you'd live, the house you'd live in, family

That's it.

you'd have?

Not this.

No. I, I mean, this happens.

It's

Have you talked to girls that

But I, but I think that's where I was gonna say sometimes that's the difference between... Like me, you gotta think, me and Justin haven't

I know. We let him down too much.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly.

Well, that's the point. They've already

Yes.

Especially.

... leader that's like this, and our family is gonna have family functions every night.

We're gonna have three gonna be great.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you set yourself up to be...

But that's why you have

Think about what we're gonna eat tonight.

Yes, exactly. That's why you have... But I'm saying that's why you have these conversations.

Right.

Right. Because I'm gonna say this.

Get back to reality.

Yeah, yes, because sometimes, and I've been this person, where I had some young ladies who were mad at me, but it was because they set themselves up for

Yeah.

... own demise. If I'm telling you, "This is my intention, this is my mindset," now what you think in your own head and what you made

Yeah.

I can't control that.

Yeah.

And I'm saying sometimes they'll leave and say, "He done me like this," when all actuality, no, you done it to yourself.

Yeah.

Yeah. You had such a... You know? It's, it's... And it's nothing wrong... Like I said, there's nothing wrong with being hopeful, but we gotta be realistic.

Hopeful

Realistic. I'm just saying, you got, you got to be realistic. I

Yeah, and I'm not throwing anybody under the bus.

No, no.

I just definitely wanna bring that to ... that happens and that that can also be the difference between discerning if you got a healthy or non-healthy. Like, you might be making it

Right.

... like, and not even realizing it because you're entertaining these thoughts and pictures and ideas, and then you do set yourself up for some heartbreak, you know, the guy doesn't like you back or he doesn't ask you out again

And can I say this? Let, go back to, again, what is it motivated by? Like, I've seen people who didn't have... Like, uh, the young lady that gave her testimony, I thought that was so powerful because she said what she didn't get from her dad, it caused her to look in, for, in, in guys.

Right.

And so sometimes it's like, okay, let's get back to that place of motivation. What is the motive behind this? And I'm gonna say this, I think, naturally, everybody in themselves want to have some type of family or some type of

Yeah.

some type of relationship.

Yeah.

But we just have to keep things in its proper

Place, yeah.

and in its proper perspective. And I feel like what happens with... What helps with that is conversations,

Right.

like Justin said, we have some young ladies who've been upset about some of the things we've done, but if we woulda had the conversations and realized, "Well, maybe I did play a part into hurting them, but I didn't know that this was her expectation." These conversations, it won't fully change everything, but I just feel like the more understanding we have with certain things, it could at least help us to know your decisions are saying, even though you know this has the potential to hurt this person, you choosing to do it, this what it says about you, or if you notice where they stand.

So, I just feel like conversation helps. You know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's so many of those, like we said, like those elusive things that get interpreted in a certain way, and then you make up this story and this narrative or this picture, um, because this person did talk to you or didn't talk to you or whatever, and if you don't somehow air that

Mm-hmm.

... or if you're not good at, like, just dismissing it, but like air it out with someone else that is maybe older and has walked a little bit more life, I mean, that could definitely help you stay focused if you can just, like, stay out of that place of just imagining all these things that aren't even the case, you know?

Yeah.

Um, I don't know. maybe that'll help somebody out there, but any other comments before we wrap up? We've taken a journey today.

We could go a while.

We might have to.

It's been a good hang.

It's been a good hang, Doc. Uh, yeah, so thanks for listening again, and we we might, we might jump back into relationships. I don't know, but, um, any questions or comments would be helpful. If there's anything else you wanna ask about, um, ask us to talk about. Um, not that we know everything, but maybe a conversation, listening to a conversation, uh, if you, uh, wanna do that can help you discern some of these things.

But thanks for listening, and we look forward to, um, whatever will come next week. Thanks for listening to the Created to Be podcast. To learn more about FCA at Mississippi State, visit www.msufca.org, and follow us on Instagram @hailstatefca_. If you would like to become a financial partner, visit www.fca.org/donate to sow into the work God is doing through FCA at Mississippi State.