Created to Be
The Created to Be podcast is hosted by Bethany Pigott, Justin Pigott, Darius Brown, and Brandi Morgan. Episodes incorporate what’s happening in FCA at Mississippi State, fun and lighthearted conversations that help you get to know the hosts and their guests, and real-life topics and themes being discussed with coaches and athletes.
Created to Be
Unbelievable Sports Finishes and Learning to Win
In this episode of the Created to Be podcast, Bethany and Justin fly duo and shift from relationships to the idea of finishing well and learning how to win. They start with some fun FCA updates then dive into some of the wildest finishes in sports they can remember. From there, the conversation turns to what a winner’s mentality actually looks like: playing to your standard, not just the scoreboard; treating losing as data, not discouragement; and learning to face failure instead of hiding from it. Justin shares stories from his own pitching career, including painful outings, pressure moments, and how good coaching and God’s work in his heart helped him grow.
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You just don't flip a coin and become a good finisher. I do think it's daily practice habits. Yeah. And I I had people model that for me. I had coaches instill those things in me. Yes, I had to choose to do it, but again, it takes a village.
SPEAKER_00:Welcome to the Created to Be podcast. We're back for another week, and it's just the two of us.
SPEAKER_01:We can make it if we try. Just the two of us. Okay. And I'm not a singer. That's not good.
SPEAKER_00:We are gonna try to make it, but we lost a lot of personality between the two of us, with Darius not being here and fun comments and laughs from Brandy. Um, but we are gonna do our best to give you a good show today. So welcome to the podcast.
SPEAKER_01:Hey, let's do it.
SPEAKER_00:So we're gonna be kind of more like co-hosts today. I'm gonna rely on Justin, but then maybe towards the end, I think it's gonna be interview style where you're gonna hear a lot more from Justin. Uh so we're just gonna roll with what we got. Um, but we want to say hello and welcome in. We have had a great time talking about relationships, but we are gonna change the tone this week. We are going to talk about finishing. One of the things that I have heard several times, just being in and around athletes and coaches, is that it takes knowing how to win, learning how to win to be a winner. So I want to kind of explore this topic. What are you smiling about, Jessica?
SPEAKER_01:Winners win, losers lose. Let's go play.
SPEAKER_00:The jokes. Yeah. So one of the things before we get into that topic, I just wanted to just mention why we're doing this podcast. I've thought about um just coming back and reiterating what the feel of this podcast is supposed to be. I just realized that there's a lot of things out there that are prescriptive, or that if you want to do know how to do something or really think deeply about things, um, there that stuff is out there and is good stuff. I mean, there's all kinds of leadership podcasts, spiritual podcasts, um, Bible study type podcasts, everything like that. And so what I have found very helpful at this stage of life, and maybe it's because I've got just a lot going on, and I don't want to overwhelm my brain with more information necessarily. Um, it's just easy listening. And I personally like comedy and there's some clean comics out there that I like to listen to, and they have podcasts, and it's just one of those things where I can go on a walk, I can be riding in the car, I can be folding clothes, and I can just listen to this conversation that they're having and feel like I'm at the table with them. And so hopefully we are providing some sort of conversation that you can just engage in or passively listen to if that's for you, but that it's easy listening and something that you can always count on that's gonna be encouraging, um, that's gonna be uh funny. Hopefully, sometimes we can bring some humor to it and maybe relevant too. Maybe there's topics that we're talking about.
SPEAKER_01:And feel free to comment. Your comments are fun. So Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we like to hear feedback, whether that's in person or if you want to use the send us a text link in the show notes or um Mississippi State FCA at gmail.com. That's another great way to get in touch with us. So we like to start off with just what we're seeing in FCA. And we have recently uh done a girls and guys night where we split up and the girls went to uh just do some gingerbread house competition decorating. That was a lot of fun and just hang out and have a good time. Uh so that was really fun. We got, you know, it's always fun when there's people who might not always come to FCA in that environment. It's kind of a way for them to come and experience us and get a feel for what who we are and the people that show up to FCA. So I feel like that's what I saw when we had that night and yeah, just a good break from the grind of sports and school. And so we had we had a lot of fun. What about you guys?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think anytime you mix in fire and football and some hot dogs, some s'mores, I think we had a good time. Yeah. Good. About 25 guys show up. Um, thankful for the the Altmyers and uh just uh letting us use their place and uh it was great. They had a basketball court out there too. So we got the good bit of playing and it was a good time.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah. I wanted to ask about that. Did people get out there and play? Yeah, they did. They did. Did anybody win?
SPEAKER_01:You all just kind of uh I was running around with Ben, making sure he was okay. You didn't get it. No, no, I didn't.
SPEAKER_00:Justin is something to behold playing basketball. Reminds me of the Mississippi college days of intramurals, they actually let us play.
SPEAKER_01:I gotta pick my spots nowadays. That was not a spot.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and at least the cowboys won too, so I'm always for that. Um, as a Mississippi State fan, too, Justin, you're now for that when the Cowboys win because of Dak.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, I'm a DAC fan. Just to be clear. Just leave it at that.
SPEAKER_00:That's hilarious. Well, we wanted to give an update. We are not having the pickleball tournament. We didn't have the pickleball tournament by the time this comes out. Um, it just there was too short of a registration window. We kind of got hung up on some registration link situation. And then we also, there was potential weather. And so we really want to make this a community event and something that people can look forward to and engage with. And we'd hate to cut it short of what it could be. So we're gonna postpone that to the spring. So I would just encourage all of you who play pickleball out there to be prepared late March, early April for a date for the FCA open. It's gonna be um a good time. I feel like I'm saying good time and fun a lot. So that's what we like to do here. Anyway, uh, we're excited about that. All right, so the stretch time, we're gonna get into the stretch, and this idea of finishing is what I want to talk about in the stretch today. So I was thinking about moments in sports that I could remember, and I did my best to just come up with these on the top of my head if I could remember, just that they were impressionable to me that I could remember of teams finishing well. And some of these are a lot of these are actually championship games, but I don't think that that is the qualifier. It's just what do I remember had to happen at the end of a game? And we've had some that we recently talked about the podcast that we witnessed with the 18-inning game and the 11-inning game between the Dodgers and the Blue Jays. So those were two we already kind of extensively talked about, so we don't have to talk about those.
SPEAKER_01:The best world series.
SPEAKER_00:It was Yeah, that was that was wild. Even I watched. Um, but I wanted to see, Justin, if you remember the Giants game who were that they were playing.
SPEAKER_01:Playing the Patriots.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, yeah. And you had mentioned some other details you did.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I don't know if that was the year or not. I didn't look it up. I don't know if that was the year that the Patriots were actually undefeated. Um, but either way, the Giants beat the Patriots twice in the Super Bowl. Eli Manning was 2-0 against Tom Brady in the Super Bowls. Um but yeah, you're gonna go ahead and talk about it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so the game was when I don't even remember the situation.
SPEAKER_01:I just remember the 2017.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so the receiver caught the ball on the up like around the helmet of the defender and went all the way to the ground and held kept possession of the ball.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:So you can explain maybe the scenario.
SPEAKER_01:Giants are trying to drive. Um, Eli actually gets out of a sack, a couple sacks on that play. It was really amazing because he doesn't like manu move a whole lot, but he got out of the sack and just threw the ball up in the air to David Tyree in the middle of the field, like 50, 40 yard line on the Patriots side. And Tyree has the helmet catch. You know, he puts his hand up there, grabs it, and secures it on his helmet as he comes down with defenders all around him and hung on to the ball. Um, yeah, and they went on to score, ended up beating the Patriots.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and if you haven't seen that catch, you should Google that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's unbelievable.
SPEAKER_01:It's it's unbelievable.
SPEAKER_00:Even I, again, was very impressed. I'm not really the biggest sports fan. I mean, I definitely get into college basketball, but that's about it, I would say. Yeah. Yeah. Um, okay, so then we were there for this. I say we, this would include my family. Justin was not with me, but my daughter Abby was with me. We had just moved to Texas. And thankfully, Mississippi State women's basketball had was in the Final Four in Texas. Like, I don't even think that Dallas had hosted a Final Four. So, very first Final Four host was Dallas. We were living in Austin at the time. Me being an alumni of Mississippi State and the basketball team for my for my team, my alma mater, to be in the final four, period, was yeah, like just a few hours away. Crazy. So I was like, we're definitely going. And then we played Yukon with an 11, 111-game win streak. And so now it's termed the the shot that Morgan Williams hit was the shot that rang around the world, is what some people say. And that was the most electric feeling I've ever had at a sporting event event. Even my dad, who was sitting in front of me and Abby, I don't think I've ever seen him go so crazy at a sporting event. Like he, it, I mean, I'm sure that on the opposite, like if you're just watching it on TV, it was probably amazing. But that comeback and the grit of our Mississippi State girls team to finish that game like that, unreal. It was amazing. You remember you were watching the game.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, yeah, we're screaming like crazy. It was unbelievable.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It was unbelievable. I couldn't imagine being there like that.
SPEAKER_00:That would be like, Yeah, I was, you know, we talk about, we talk about just a few episodes ago, you know, we talked about just watching the whole game, a whole game, like even if you're watching it on TV. So there's like these, these, like, okay, watching the whole game, you get the whole concept, so you can engage with it on a different level. Um, watching highlights, sure, you can get the general idea of the game, be excited about it. But when you're in it, even when it's on the TV, but add like the in-person dynamic, which is kind of sad that COVID, I feel like, in a lot of ways, no matter where, like if it's a sporting event, a concert, like it's taken a little bit of time to get back in that rhythm of going places because you just kind of learned it's okay. I can just watch it on TV.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But I will say, as excited as I've gotten, let's just say, about the World Series games, the in-person, I don't know what it is about it. It's just so cool to be there. And it's worth it uh to me anyway, to if I can make that happen, because it is a comp it is a different experience. Yeah, it is.
SPEAKER_01:It is.
SPEAKER_00:And you know what? The Yukon fans were very kind after the game. They were very respectable, like they were bummed, obviously, but they were so impressed. And so, even as a Mississippi State fan, they were tipping their cap to us afterwards, just as we were walking back to our car. They were saying things, and so it was just a great game. Like if you're a sports fan of any kind to see that kind of uh determination finish could have gone either way. Thankfully, it went our way. Very cool, very cool to be there.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, man.
SPEAKER_00:Another finish that came to mind was this was a wild game. You might remember when this actually happened, but college football when Alabama played Auburn and you said it was called something. 2013, the kick six. The kick six. So maybe you can explain it. I just that just popped in my head and I was like, okay.
SPEAKER_01:Iron Bowl, one of the toughest rivalry games, um, if not the craziest. And uh, you know, we could add to the list of rivalry games, but this one's known, especially around here. Um, let's see, Alabama was trying to drive to go down and score, kick a field goal to win the game. And so they didn't get as far as they wanted to. Um, Nick Saban decided to go ahead and kick a field goal anyway, and it was a long way away. I think it was like a 54 yard, 50 something. Long way for their kicker kick. It was not a very, very small chance of him making that. And so um Auburn decided to put somebody under the goal post in the end zone and wait to see if the ball got there or not. And uh sometimes that happens on long kicks late in the game. They'll do that, they'll send a person back. So that's the normal thing. Yeah, if you catch the ball in play, then you can return it. Well, Alabama kicker kicks it, and uh actually I think there was one second left too.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So that was a significant stuff. There's one second left, they got reviewed, there's one second left. If the game was over, there would have been a different game, obviously. But Saban decides to give it a kick. The ball goes short. So when Chris Tavis caught the ball, there's there's not a whole lot of tacklers on the field. So you think about the big O-line and the people in there on the kicking team, um, not a whole lot of athletic guys, and so he ran the ball all the way back. This was at Auburn, and so the place just about exploded. Pretty sure it was at Auburn. And uh so that forever went down as the just the craziest thing.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, did they not know that they would have somebody in the end zone? Like, were they not prepared for somebody to run the ball back if it was short?
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I'm I'm sure they did, but it was the risk they were willing to take of going, okay, well, he's gonna kick it out of bounds.
SPEAKER_00:So I think that I didn't realize that that I mean, obviously at that level they're gonna think of that, but I didn't even know that was like a common thing that people, you know, make sure, like if they have everybody lined up and it's a really long field goal that they're gonna put a guy back there.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I mean, you still you have to take it a hundred and where he caught it 110 yards all the way back without anybody tackling.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so I have a couple surprises that I remembered that I didn't prep Justin on that I want to like talk about. This one warms my heart because this is my our era of basketball. Talk about when I was an NBA fan was Michael Jordan, whenever he had a hundred and something fever.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, the flu game.
SPEAKER_00:Flu game, yes. And how this man scored, I think it said 38. 38, how do you gosh, because I just remember it.
SPEAKER_01:I just remember it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's how memorable it was. Like crazy that the you know, the the Bulls were playing the Utah Jazz. Yeah, and it says he played 44 minutes, scoring 38 points, becoming a legendary example of resilience.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, Pippen was like carrying him off the court between Tom Allison.
SPEAKER_00:I'm not saying I support that, like playing to the point of kind of probably being scary, but I think that the when we talk about like finishing and a winner, like a winner's mentality, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:Jordan was ruthless, like he was. Um also a cool thing about Jordan is that he never took games off. Um he didn't believe in the management, load management. That's not a knock on anybody now, but his deal was people were spending a lot of money, and sometimes it might be their one chance to watch him play, and he wanted to be at his best and do his best for them, for those people that are sacrificing for that. So a different perspective with NBA players back then. Jordan had that one. A lot of those guys did again, not a knock on the current, but the load management conversation could be a whole nother stretch.
SPEAKER_00:Sure, yeah, um, a whole nother stretch. Yeah, no, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so that was one of the things that I just immediately when I thought about this topic of finishing.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, my It was also a playoff game, too, so he wasn't gonna miss that.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Yeah, and it says that they went up 3-2.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, that was uh game five is massively important.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Makes me want to go back and watch it. Um, because I just remembered that as a kid. And also, I mean, they what's the series that they did for Michael Jordan? What's it called?
SPEAKER_01:The Last Dance? Yeah, The Last Dance.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, they just I mean, you kind of get to see more behind the scenes of I'm not saying that I approve of every way that he approached wards of team teammates and all that stuff, but you do start to see like the mentality that he had of just getting after it or holding it himself. I think that would be different if he didn't hold himself to a standard, but he held himself to a standard and then demanded that excellence out of his teammates. And again, not always in the most appropriate ways, probably, but that's Kobe was that way too. Yeah, that's just what he yeah. So, I mean, if you want to, if anybody was interested in like finishing, I mean, I feel like he is the guy um for that. But the other one that I thought of, which would be fun to talk about, NC State men's basketball in 2024. This was wild. I don't I was just probably bored on a weekend and wanted something to watch. And I happened to turn on. Why did I turn on the ACC men's basketball tournament? Random.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's all get out. But I happened to turn on the NC State game, their first game in the ACC tournament, and they kept winning. They won 11. Yeah, no, they were the 11th seed, and they won the ACC tournament. And they had, oh, this is what it was. They went all the way through the NCAA tournament and had nine consecutive elimination games before they lost to the number one seed to Purdue. Yes. What? Yes. Like to if that's the interview I would want those main five guys, five, six guys, what their mentality was because I mean, there was so much on the brink that year.
SPEAKER_01:I think the coach was gonna get fired.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Which he did the next year. The next year he got fired.
SPEAKER_00:Right, right, right. But I just I mean, I was so intrigued by like to follow their story. I have no connection to NC State. I don't have any affiliation, but just to see these guys come out and something was click. I mean, they just clicked at the right time, but also you have to have some kind of mentality to be able to accomplish that. You know, that's what I would want to like ask Pry and ask a lot of questions of like, what were y'all talking about in the locker room? What was the practice culture like? Like when you got to these games where you could have lost, like what are you saying in the huddle? Things like that. Because I just like to learn what, you know, what is going on mentally with these teams that can do this. So, anyways, that was really cool uh to watch that. I mean, even I remember when they beat Yeah Duke in the Elite Eight.
SPEAKER_01:And they also had a Muslim on their team who was actually uh participating in Ramadan.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And so he wouldn't eat until the night. And so uh yeah, that was nuts to watch him compete. And so they had multiple like back-to-back games. So they had like five games in a row, I think, for one, four or five games in a row to win the ACC tournament. Yeah, so they didn't get rest, and it's not like they had a ton of bench guys.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think that's the crazy, probably the craziest thing about that whole thing. I I think it also said on the internet that they are the only team, 11 seed to ever win that tournament, which makes sense. So but I mean they had to rent what they didn't get any kind of buy. So they had to win and play all these games back to back to back, and that's just unheard of for a seed 11 seed to make it that far. So yeah, totally a team that finished uh finished really well, clearly had something going on where they believed they could win, and that's what intrigues me is that belief, and then to be able to go execute that time and time and time again. Did you have any others?
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah, oh yeah. This one broke college football, I feel like. Okay. For me, I remember this in '97. Boise State was playing Oklahoma. Oklahoma was massively favored. Boise State went undefeated that year, I believe, and um got a chance to play in this BCS bowl game. Um, I don't think it was the it wasn't the title game, but it was like a major bowl game, one of the top four bowl games. And Boise State got to play in one of those. It was a big deal. And I think previous teams before never panned out. Boise State beat Oklahoma. But the crazy thing about it was the last drive. It was just crazy. Last drive, they broke out some crazy plays. One was a hook and ladder, which you can go look at what that play is. Pretty much a guy runs a short curl route or like a middle tier curl route, catches the ball, and then there's another um receiver coming the opposite direction. So once the guy catches it, he flips it behind him to the other receiver cutting the other way. So it throws the defense off. They make a big play on a hook and ladder. I think they score on it. But then the next play is a two-point conversion to win the game.
SPEAKER_02:Oh wow.
SPEAKER_01:So they run the Statue of Liberty play, which is one of those like a fake pass, and the the quarterback takes a fake pass, puts the ball behind his back, the running back comes behind it and grabs the ball and then runs the opposite direction. Oh, wow. And so it faked the defense out. Two-point conversion, they win the game. I'm pretty sure the running back proposes to his fiance, like to his girlfriend.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, nice.
SPEAKER_01:Um, that day. Very efficient. It was just, and it was just a really cool moment that I remember watching. Um, I think everybody became a Boise State fan that day.
SPEAKER_00:They're the ones with the blue field, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yes. See, those are the details I remember. Okay, yeah, the blue field team. Um, and then also, you know, it was more football-related, but Music City Miracle was a crazy finish because uh they needed uh the the Titans were down. I believe they were playing the Bills in the playoffs. It was a wild card game in the playoffs. Poor Bills, man. I couldn't catch a break. Um, but they would uh they got the kickoff return, ran up to the field on the right side, the guy turns and throws it directly across the field, but behind enough because it can't be a four-wonder forward pass. And um and Kevin Dyson, I believe, catches the ball and takes it all the way down the other side of the field and scores on the kickoff to win the game.
SPEAKER_00:Oh wow.
SPEAKER_01:That it was crazy, crazy. Um and then another one, I think another football game. I'm thinking of 82. I did look this one up because I knew the it's the classic when the band comes on the field thinking it's over. So Cal gets a kickoff against Stanford and they um they flip it around back and forth, back and forth, and they're just playing keep away, and uh, and they get past Stanford and end up scoring a touchdown. The guy who scored a touchdown had to run through the band.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And I'm pretty sure he decked a trombone player, just squared him up, boom, and runs in the end zone. And this is a classic um broadcaster, like on it just sharing like the band is on the field, the band is on the field, and then he scores, and that man, what a what a mess.
SPEAKER_00:What about isn't there a game that was like Appalachian State or something like that? And they beat Michigan, and that was like was that at the end of the game though?
SPEAKER_01:Uh I don't know. I don't know about that one, but I know that was pretty bad loss for Michigan because they paid him like a million dollars to Oh my gosh, no way. Yeah, that's happened a couple times since. Northern Illinois beat Notre Dame. That was a big one, too.
SPEAKER_00:But was that recent?
SPEAKER_01:Uh I think two or three years ago, yeah. There are obviously many finishes in sports. These are the ones that we remember. Yeah, that just popped up. You were thinking about the Cardinals coming back and beating the Rangers in the World Series. I think you were crushed about that one. David Freeze, they were they were down to last strike multiple times in that series, and they came back and won game six and game seven.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And the Rangers choked that one away.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I also was pretty disappointed in I think it was 06 when the Mavericks went to the finals. They played the Heat.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and they won the first two games of the series, and then the Heat came back and went four straight.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I was able to go to the second game of the finals, which was a big deal, being, you know, freshman in college, like that was a very cool experience. And then I went on a mission trip to Africa and did not get to see some of the games, and it was so disappointing that they lost the next four straight.
SPEAKER_01:So I remember telling you that the Heat was gonna win too.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we had that discussion. So apparently the Heat finished well, but not Dwayne Wade was a boss. Yeah. So we've also had a couple teams recently in college football, and just the one we were gonna mention as we transition into the topic of finishing and how you learn to win. Like, what is a winner's mentality? What does that even mean to like learn to win? I don't know that we have the answer, but we're gonna just talk about it. Uh so just some teams like AM playing South Carolina the other day. Like they go into halftime, they're down. Do you remember 30 to three?
SPEAKER_01:30 to three.
SPEAKER_00:And they came back to win 31? 30.
SPEAKER_01:31 to 30.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So I mean, I remember telling you when we saw this game playing out, I was like, that team, there's no way. And I know that I saw South Carolina's coach just like a thing, just a headline that just said, like, we didn't think the game was over. It's not like, you know, we came. But I do think that there, as we transition into that topic, I do think I'm not saying this about South Carolina, just to be clear. I'm just saying there is this point of think just human nature where you get comfortable. Like, I don't, again, not saying that about South Carolina. I know nothing about that culture, that team, but just that idea of how do you stay engaged and disciplined when you know, ca I think that in other areas of life you can feel that way. You're like, well, I'm ahead here, so I don't have to be as on top of things.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, the great coaches address this. Nick Saban always talks about it. He calls it rat poison. Um, you know, you think you're doing good, and it's natural. Like Kurt Signetti, actually with Indiana, has been talking about this recently. Okay. And you think he's like, I've had to, I've had to really tick some people off because you know, we get we're on the streak and we're winning. And everybody, it's natural, right, human nature to not work as hard as you would if you were in a grind, in a struggle.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And so he has to continue to hold the standard and in many ways be a jerk, even in the midst of we're undefeated and we're doing really well to hold the standard.
SPEAKER_00:Why do you think that is? I mean, you were a pitcher. So say you came out there on the mound and your team's up nine to one. Are you gonna pitch just as hard as you would if it's you're it's flip-flopped like y'all are down?
SPEAKER_01:Obviously, I mean you're in a more favorable situation, so they may the the way you pitch may be a little different. Like for me, if I'm up nine to one, I there's no reason to be careful with anybody. I'm gonna be filling up the strike zone and I'm gonna let my defense work and use that, those advantages for me. If I'm putting people on base and hitting guys, um, then I'm not helping the cause, and that's not what's working.
SPEAKER_00:Mentally, I guess, as not not so much as much as like game strategy, but mentally, do you feel like if you had it might be subconscious, it might not be like, oh, I'm actively thinking this, but would you say it's like, well, I it's okay if I make a mistake?
SPEAKER_01:Um yes and no. I think there's a little more um grace you can give yourself because you gotta get back to the next hitter. But at the same time, there's a lot on the line. So if I close out the game when we're up nine to one and I can pitch a lot of innings, I'm saving our bullpen. And if I can put them down and not give them any more runs, they have to carry that lack of momentum into the next game. Yeah. And so I don't want to give them a breath of life at the end and then they run me out the game. And even so, so say we win nine to five, that's still not nine to one. And so there's always something to be grabbed and competed for. And um, and yeah, and for as a pitcher, you want to put a team away and you want to bury them. And so you're trained to operate that way and have that mentality. So burying them and so they can carry that into the next game is exactly what you want.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, what do you go into the game? Like some of these, especially non-conference games. I I think baseball, there seems to be, anyways, from just an observation, a lot of parity. Like there's a lot of good baseball programs that might not even be division one. So I feel like in baseball, you kind of got to be careful because these teams can come in for a midweek game or even a series or whatever, and it's sneak, they're sneaky. And so I always am like, man, that we, you know, you gotta be prepared always in baseball. But like for these other sports, I mean, what I feel like you just have to make create a standard mentally and strategy-wise to play at a certain level, no matter what. Like, if it is a team that should not compete with you, the scorecard should represent that. But that's a mentality. It's not just about winning the game. It's like, no, we're winners all the time, and what's expected is what is done. Like if we're SEC and this other team is not, then it's expected that you're gonna have like quite a point spread. And that's okay.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think there are moments in games, depending on the sport, where you compete against the person and you're trying to beat the person. But I also think there is another type of motivation and focus where you're competing with yourself. And so if those two things are constantly happening, and I don't, you know, like there's not like an on and off switch, but you're always competing and you're always trying to push the standard that you have for yourself no matter what. And so, um, no matter what the competition is, no matter who you're facing. And so I I think if that if you can pitching from that standpoint, playing from that standpoint, you're not gonna have a drop-off. Like it doesn't matter.
SPEAKER_00:Like But did have you observed, like, does that happen? I mean, you've coached too, so like does that happen where people are more lackadaisical coming in in their approach just because they see, oh, we're playing so-and-so this week?
SPEAKER_01:Um, yeah, that can happen. And as a coach, you have to redirect that. You have to redirect that because it really comes down to execution. Doesn't matter who's in that box that you're paying against, playing against, or who's on the field against you, it comes down to how you execute. And so if you execute well, you most most of the time you're going to win the game. But it takes a lot of focus to continue to execute well and not lose track, not lose focus.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Yeah, I think that one thing that I've observed is The ability to stay engaged and do a repeated practi uh repeated skill in a disciplined way, who can do that the longest?
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:You know? And basically playing as if that scoreboard's not even up there. Because I do think that that kind of can impact for sure the effort that a team is giving on being so disciplined and clean when they're playing a team. I mean, you always it's kind of a phrase you hear that's, you know, people will say, we gotta play to our standard or we can't play down, or you know, and but because that's just normally that can happen when you're, you know, but so what are those things that keep you in that kind of frame of mind? Like what how did you how do you do how did you get that? I mean you you mentioned like in high school, you had coaches that do that. You mentioned coaches several times, so maybe you had good coaches, but was that kind of just innate in you? Like this is a standard, and it doesn't really matter where I am or what I'm doing, this is just what I expect of myself.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's a good question. I I think a lot of it was coaching coming up. I had some great little league coaches, I had a great high school coach that challenged me. Um part of it is I was small, uh, I didn't throw the hardest. So I had to find ways to beat people and compete. And so my m the way I competed is was an advantage for me. It wasn't the stuff that I had, it wasn't um the ability, it was more of just I'm going to come at you and make you beat me, you know? And uh so that that's a lot of it for me.
SPEAKER_00:That was just I think, yeah, and I think that um an advantage to anybody, whether you have a lot of talent or that you're, you know, is just to be a learner. If you go up in competition and you get beat, like what can you learn from that? And then what can you can control and go do more? Can you practice more? Can you have more attention to detail? Can you have better routines?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, what can you clean up? I think you've got we got to get away from the results based in a lot of ways. Like you could look at it and be like, well, I lost my match, or this, or like, okay, I got or even like okay, I just got six outs, and um, it's I'm going into the third inning and I'm you know been three up, three down, and buffed those, and I'm into the third. Well, what happened in those outs? How well have you executed? Yeah, did they just miss a pitch that you threw right down the middle? Or did you hang a breaking ball that they were fortunate that it's still there and it was just an out? Like, did you fool them in any way, or did they just miss? Are they taking good swings on you? And so as you look at those things, you're going, okay, I did get six outs, but I'm very fortunate that there's no runs. And so I have to adjust and get back to executing well and not get caught up in like, oh, I've just rolled through this lineup.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Yeah. I think that what what you're saying, those sound like intangibles to me. Like when I went to Point Guard College, when I was in college, there was like a whole yeah, there was a whole sheet of things. And I wish I had learned it sooner. But they would give us this piece of paper with these categories that were all intangible things. And it's things you're doing in the fast break. It's are you taking dribbles that are non-productive dribbles? You know, things that I just wouldn't think about because if you just take the common stats, turnovers, shots, field goal percentage, free throw, three point, whatever, assists, like you're not getting a full picture of how you're actually impacting the game, like what you're saying, like all those little details that actually probably mean more in the grand scheme of like how the game turns out. But again, it's kind of unseen unless you have a coach that's saying this, if you can accomplish this, then the points will take care of itself. You know, if we get this many points in the paint, if we get this many passes before we um, you know, get a shot. That's one thing that I see a lot in basketball in general. I'm always like, pass the ball. Like, because you know, you move the ball around the court so much, defense moves, somebody's gonna eventually be open, you know? And so it's just one of those things where if you have that and you know that and you focus on those things instead, then it can impact. But that's like a that to me is a discipline because it's not natural whenever you might have you might want, especially in a game like basketball that's so fast paced that you want to just do. Maybe if you came especially from high school and you were the best player on the team and you really had to take the team on your back, you were the team and you were having to shoot the ball, make all the plays for the most part. Like, it's hard to have that kind of restraint and play within systems and stuff like that, I think. Um what about like learning to finish? I mean, you were in that game when y'all went to Omaha and you were at the Florida State Regional, I feel like that's probably a good game of an example of like having to finish. I don't remember what all the scenarios were, but you and Aaron Weatherford like tag team that game. Is there anything that whether it was that game or another that you've pitched before, that you just remember what that feels like to have that pressure and being relentless to just, I mean, be determined to finish and not let this game go, you know, end in a loss.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I I think some of this was formed in high school. I can go even go back to younger years too. But I think high school, um, I just became known as someone that had a second wind late in the game. So my endings were always better um than really at the beginning. And I don't know where that came from. Uh I did run a lot extra, so sometimes that extra running I think would help me later on. But I think it's just a mentality of like, this is not over, this is a battle, I have to bring it, and I've got to find something deeper in me and uh and go beyond what I think I can do. And so I think through some great coaching in high school, and we did some pretty ridiculous stuff at times. Um, you know, the the hard workouts, the crazy workouts that you're like, what was the point of that? That one even baseball related. But it pushes you to a point where you mentally you didn't think you could go, and then physically, of course, you don't think you could go. So we had some moments here at state where we did some of those workouts, like sled workouts, and you're like, what the heck? I'm not pushing sleds on a baseball field. Right. But it pushes you to a point where you're like, you can give more. And so it it increases your mental capacity in the late games to go, okay, this is never over. Here's the moment. I'm gonna be 100% locked in on this, and I'm gonna have my best. I gotta have it right away. And and then you get coaches put you in situations in practice to where you've got to have your stuff right away. You've got to have this, or you've got to find a way to make an adjustment when you don't, and you've got to have it, and it's gotta happen within the next pitch or two, or you're gonna be in trouble. And so um, I just love that pressure. I just I've grew to love that pressure, but you have to be in situations where coaches give you that. I also had great coaches that that supported me and believed in me. Yeah, and so I think that goes a long way too. Like when your coach is belief is there and then you believe in it because you've had success in the past, so you have to rely and remember on the past successes, not on the previous failures. I have given up some game-winning home runs that happens or some big hits, but there's been times where I've gotten out of bases loaded of jams with nobody out and nobody scored. And those are the moments that I remember, and I I love I love those situations. So you gotta it's it's uh it's uh it takes a village. I don't think it's just a one-person deal. There is gonna have to be an individual drive in you, but there are so many other people that are a part of that on the journey of like learning how to finish well.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think that also I was thinking about how whenever you were in college and we were both, I was playing basketball, Justin was playing baseball, and I liked to run. Like that's where, you know, I walked on the basketball team here. So that was my like best place to compete where I felt like I could really, you know, I don't know, challenge whoever was there. You know, my skill with basketball wasn't as good as some of my teammates. So I felt it was like an even playing field when we went to run line drills or in the weight room. But one of the things that I noticed about Justin was that, and something we both had in common was finishing reps in the weight room, finishing whatever we were asked to do, we finished it. And I do think there's something to that. Like if you practice not finishing things, whether that's in your schoolwork, whether that's you've given your word to a friend, hey, yeah, I'll show up and you ghost people all the time, or whatever it may be, I mean, that's going to at some point impact how your brain is trained to transfer and relate like to this scenario on a court or a field. Right? You think so?
SPEAKER_01:No, 100%.
SPEAKER_00:Like Justin would, he wasn't necessarily required to run, I don't think, but you would, I would be training for something and you would come and run with me, some mileage, and you were already gonna do some, but that was something you learned what it required of you, whether that was something the coaches told you or not, to get your body back in a position to be able to repeat the same thing and do it better the next day. And you went and you finished that. And I think that's a big deal to me. I think that's a good practice. Like, do you finish what you start in general in anything in life?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you know? But yeah, I you just don't flip a coin and become a good finisher. I I do think it's daily practice habits. Yeah. And I I had people model that for me. I had coaches instill those things in me. Yes, I had to choose to do it, but again, it takes a village. Like I had some success in some good moments and some bigger moments, and then I've also failed in those two. And so how you approach the failures, um, the coaches that are speaking life at you give you another chance to approach that failure, the teammates that believe in you. Um, it's a lot.
SPEAKER_00:And I think that sometimes failure, I know you you might can share the story of like facing failure that you've often shared in devotions and things like that with teams. But I think that that is where you also you kind of have to face that in order to learn how to finish. Because if you don't fail, like I know that I, you know, in some of these faster-paced sports, I I feel more comfortable about players being in scenarios that are high pressured because there's somebody else that might can make a steal in basketball, but like, or something like that, or get a deflection and now you get the ball. There's just so many things that could happen. But in a sport like baseball, if a pitcher is just getting blown up, I'm like, coach, take him out. This is painful. But to your point, depending on what the game is and what's going on. I mean, even in the World Series games, there were some pitchers that were struggling, but they're like think, you know, they're having to manage all these games and who they're gonna have. And so sometimes it's like you, you're just out there and you gotta figure it out and you gotta make those adjustments. And that's what's hard sometimes to watch, but also at the same time, like I don't know how you grow to ever finish something if you're not put in those scenarios.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Like you have to face that failure. So I know you have a story about facing failure.
SPEAKER_01:Well, there's that, yeah. And you gotta, you gotta get turned in the fire. How you approach failure is a big deal. I think for me, the Lord dealt with the what is everybody else gonna think deal. And that specifically happened in Alaska when I was playing summer ball. I started a game and I didn't get anybody out. I went through the whole lineup and I get a single out. And so the Lord was really dealing with me on this fear of failure, specifically with like what are my teammates gonna think? Because I was one of the division one players, so I'm supposed to be better apparently than everybody else. So I had that expectation. Um, what are my coaches gonna think when they see the stat line for this summer game? And my ERA is INF, which is infinity, because I didn't get it out. I think so. I don't I don't know. That's terrible. It could be a variety of other things, but um, but then I was thinking of like, well, what's my host family gonna think? You know, they're here watching what are all these other people gonna think, and and it took me away from just the moment and what I was there to do, and um, and I was just like, enough's enough. Like, I'm not gonna be changed and be different because I had a bad outing. I'm tired of being inconsistent because I had a bad outing. Now, because I fail or I don't get the job done, does that mean it doesn't bother me and then I'm just okay with failing? No, you're gonna hurt it bothers you, yes, but you don't have to be a different person when you fail. You can still be the same person to your friends and go hang out and do those things and um and be a supporter of other people. The best way to do that is to encourage the ones that come after you on the mound to be your biggest, your biggest supporter of your teammates. Um, it deals with your heart, gets that crap out of there because it is, and it's it's really selfish and it's um saving face. It's um yeah, you're just trying to protect yourself, is really what it is. Instead of just going, you know what? I did it. It's not what I wanted. Yeah, just own it. You gotta own it. Gosh, just own it. It wasn't my best day. Um, I gave my best, um, but it wasn't my best day. And so finally getting free of that was so helpful. So helpful. And it really prepared me for the rest of my career.
SPEAKER_00:And I, you know, I saw a moment where it was pretty tough for Justin on his senior night. So I can attest to him doing this. It was very hard as his girlfriend to watch this go down, but they had this um event for Coach Polk. It was Coach Polk's last last game, right?
SPEAKER_01:Last game.
SPEAKER_00:So they had a whole like ceremony before the game.
SPEAKER_01:Justin is my last start.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it the starter. So you got you're down there trying to warm up, and then you have this ceremony, and then you got to get back on the it was just like a weird sequence of how all the preparation would be different because of this ceremony happening. And remind me, I don't remember how that start came out.
SPEAKER_01:I didn't I didn't get out of the second inning. Yeah. I struggled through the first and then gave up like two or three runs, and I was like, oh boy. And I didn't, I didn't feel great, but I'm like, come on, find a way. And I didn't get out of the second inning.
SPEAKER_00:So ladies out there's really tough. Yeah, ladies out there, we've been talking about how what kind of man to look for. So I I was crushed for him because I mean, to have his last home game in like that was just a lot. I was like, no. So I'm already, you know, emotional. I try to get myself together. And then the next inning, when they come off the field, I guess in the second inning, like Justin was the first person out of the dugout and you know, cue the tears for the second time. So I'm just saying, ladies, that's the kind of man you want. No one pouting in the corner, but he was, you know, I just knew the stakes of the situation. And so to see Justin come out of the dugout like that was super impressive to me. And I remember after the game talking to you, and there were two seniors who didn't always play a ton, maybe. I don't remember. Maybe they did. I don't know, because I think it was Jesse Carver and Yeah, Jesse came in for me. And Jesse had or they did play a lot, but he they had like incredible game.
SPEAKER_01:Like that they pitched Jesse had an incredible finish to his career.
SPEAKER_00:And then John Lawler, I think.
SPEAKER_01:And Lawler pitched at the end, I believe, too.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And so, you know We almost won.
SPEAKER_01:We almost came back and won. Yeah. It's kind of weird.
SPEAKER_00:So you look at that game, and obviously you could go back and learn from it, but also you see where these two guys get a chance because you didn't go long.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and that was good. On their senior day. That helped, and that helped a ton. But I also was, you know, in the tunnel, grabbed Andy Wilson and just cried on his chest for a second, and then I popped back out to go help support Jesse. But um, I mean, it was definitely a moment. It wasn't I pitched bad and I'm upset. It was that's it.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Because I knew I wasn't playing beyond that. So that was it. Yeah. For a place that I gave five years of my life, and that was the last outing. That was pretty rough. It was tough. Um, but thankfully have friends and thankful my teammates had great endings to their time.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Man, so I have a few, we don't have Darius here to give us the one-liners, but there's I'll I'll try to provide a few. There's a difference between playing not to lose and playing to win.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_00:And so I think that the that to me is like if say you see a team on your schedule that you should beat, it's like, okay, we shouldn't lose this game. That's a different mentality than we're gonna go play our game, my game. It doesn't matter who it could be the same opponent and like you take the same mentality into the I think that's a playing to win mentality. It does not really matter who's on the other side of that competition. The I'm I'm gonna play the same. I'm gonna approach the game the same. There's no deviation of that, right? But I think you they if you if that fluctuates, maybe that's what it means when you're just playing like not to lose.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Oh, yeah, definitely. I mean, I I think in baseball it's like, okay, you want to win two out of three, you want to win the series, especially in this league. You wanna and and so you're you're saying that and and and you're probably like, well, wait, you're gonna lose one of those games, you're not playing the win. I think it's definitely a mentality to go, it doesn't like okay, the goal is two out of three.
SPEAKER_00:Sure.
SPEAKER_01:But man, I want to win every single game.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Like it's like you know that on paper the math works where it's like if you get this many games, you get in to the tournament, or you get in, you have good seating, or whatever like that. You know the amount of games, but I think it's a personal responsibility to think, okay, that's great to have that information, but I'm still gonna approach every game like every game is winnable and that we can beat our competition.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, I don't want to be the one to lose one of those games, you know, being a pitcher like I got one of those the neck that gum and I want to win mine.
SPEAKER_00:So I also like this thought that losing becomes data, not discouragement.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Oh shoot, that's good.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It's good.
SPEAKER_00:So you don't have excuses or blame or self-pity, but you choose to be responsible, to own whatever happened, to reflect, to make adjustments, and then just be resilient. Like if I had thought that way when I played sports, that losing like really any stat is data. You know, like whether like not to put things in a good and bad call columns and pit them against each other, but just realize all of this is data for me. And that can be something where I'm not feeling like defeated. There's not I don't know. I think that that can become a mindset too, is like, oh, you just defeated, a defeated mindset where it's like we just can't get anything right. Like I think it's a choice to just look at what happened and then just see what can you sharpen.
SPEAKER_01:Like, for instance, data, you didn't get a call that you wanted. It was a strike, but it was called a ball. You could be ticked and go on to the next pitch still thinking about how you just struck a guy out, but you didn't get the call. And then you throw a next pitch which was not executed real well, and it gets crushed. All right. If you focus better, you probably could have given a better pitch. So like you could blame that on the umpire, or you can blame that on I didn't have the focus to make a better pitch after that, or to do it again. And so um it takes away the umpires, takes away the referees, it takes away teammates making an error or making a bad pass, or whatever the situation is on the team support side, and and then you focus on the data. How can we get to a place to where we don't have to rely on the call?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:We could have been in a better place to not rely on the call. And so I get it, sometimes it's hard and that happens and it's unfortunate. Um, but I don't want to rely on the call of an umpire to dictate the game.
SPEAKER_00:So I said this to somebody this morning, and it was not about sports, but I think one thing that I'm learning in my own life, like mentally, is that I have a choice, like the power of choice that I can choose to see data as a benefit to me, or like even if we lose, even if I have a terrible game, I can just approach it, I can choose to look at it a certain way. Yeah. And so I think that that's where also a winner's mentality is it's not an ignoring of information or not responsibility. It's actually the opposite. It's I'm going to take responsibility, I'm gonna engage with it. I'm not gonna be afraid to engage with what has just happened. I'm not gonna be afraid of being, you know, transparent or like vulnerable. Like, no, these were my stats. This is what really happened, and I'm gonna engage with that information.
SPEAKER_01:And if you approach it that way, losing will actually produce confidence. Okay. There's a flip because we always think winning and winning in moments produces confidence. Remember what you've done in the past. Yes, but if you appropriately take the data from losing and prepare and take what you need to take from losing, it actually produces confidence for the next time you're in that situation.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So we've been talking about relationships. So maybe that also if you have a bad breakup or whatever, it's like we need some, we need some reflection questions.
SPEAKER_01:Losing in a relationship and being out of it for three years, and that data that I learned prepared me for you.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I mean, I think that that I mean, it just changes how you approach life and how you let your brain think either I'm a winner or I'm a loser. You know? I mean, I see another another thing.
SPEAKER_01:Which goes back to the cheesy quote, but it's right, winners win. Do you believe you're a winner?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. But I also see you also see I don't think that it's a winner's mentality to be arrogant.
SPEAKER_01:No.
SPEAKER_00:So I think that that is also kind of like some kind of like faux, faux front for actually fear failure. Like it's posturing. Like if you're scared in any way to look at the data and then engage with the data from any kind of humble perspective, maybe that is what a winner's mentality is. You know? So if you do win a lot of games, but you will not engage with what happened what just happened, and you cannot reflect and you cannot tolerate that, then I would say you still probably have some kind of maybe humor failure, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, oh, for sure. And I think even going on like, oh, if I don't pitch well, I'm gonna lose my position. Okay, well, face it, you didn't pitch well, you did lose it. So you can you can work hard to get it back or get another opportunity. So be ready for the next opportunity.
SPEAKER_00:And I think I have seen so many reasonable coaches here, like at Mississippi State. I see so many that are so willing to engage with athletes at a very one, even in team sports on a very one-on-one level to to say, if you want to get better, we have all the resources and we'll help you do that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I mean, I could I could sit here and tell you this the turning point for me, I would think. Um this was my red shirt uh freshman year. I gave up a walk-off, well, not walk-off, a home run to Bobby Filmy to Georgia on the SEC weekend and felt awful. Like we were up and we ended up I gave up the lead and we lost that game. And that was a Sunday game. Two days later, on a Tuesday, maybe a Wednesday game in South Alabama on the road, okay, Coach McNichol throws me back in the game in a pivotal situation. I end up throwing like three innings in relief and get to win in some really tough situations, but he had enough confidence in me to throw me right back in there after that just happened, and that was a big thing for me because it showed he has belief in me, and that was early in my career, and then I came through, which flipped it and just learned from the previous experience. So it was just like massive uh formation moment for me early in my career. In that it's just it takes coaches, it takes great coaching, and um, and it takes somebody that's willing to work and face the failure.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but also like I was saying, like face the even in winning. Like I think that that that's another thing. Now, these are Justin and I have served with FCA at Division III, at Division II, and Division I schools, and specifically when when we went to the University of Texas to serve with FCA, we were like, okay, some this these people are different.
SPEAKER_01:I'm here to win a national championship.
SPEAKER_00:And that's a thing too. The level of just when you go to certain schools, what the expectation is, that initially that also sets a standard. Like what the university, what the athletic department does, what they expect from their teams. I mean, the tower at UT was always lit. Football, not for so many years. Vince Young, they were riding that one out for a while.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But the other sports, I mean, you would they were constantly winning, whether that was at the time Big 12 championships or national championships. I mean, the UT Tower was lit. Um, that's what they just like the tower, for those who don't know. Like when you drive downtown, you'll see it all but a big dude. Nice. Um, so it was just interesting because we got to observe the mentality of those athletes. Like they already come because they were recruited at this particular school. I think they already came in with a mentality, a winner's mentality. You know, like you come into a culture where that's just what they do. And so you might not have to like focus so hard on winning because the people there have figured out how to demand that from the strength coaches to the um, you know, the athletic department, like the department heads to everybody.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, it was just programs were established, like swimming always won. There were a couple programs that just always won. Right. Volleyball was right up there. The other ones that were struggling at the time being consistent, though, like football, baseball. We saw the pressure just like pummel these guys.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And I think that's really, I mean, we're not trying to like um fan be fans here of UT or anything, just but our our experience there made me realize. I mean, this is pretty like not anything revelatory, but you know, we had gone from a division three school, division, and then they were going to division two at Mississippi College, and then we went to UT. And so I think that's when I really consciously had that thought, like realizing how different, like, yes, these athletes in all these places were super athletic and talented, but what set these apart were, yeah, for sure, their abilities and their talent, but that they had something mentally that other athletes didn't have at some of these other levels of school of college athletics. And that's just intriguing to me. Was like, that is really somebody can be, again, so gifted, so talented. But if they're just playing not to lose or if they're inconsistent, you know, they're not going to be able to withstand the type of training it takes at a place like that that does win. Yeah. You know? So, anyways, it was very interesting just to watch and to be part of for the little bit of time that we're there. But anyway, I don't know if this helped anybody with this topic of what does it mean to learn to win? I think that as we wrap up this conversation, if I as as I'm thinking back through everything that we talked about, I think it might boil down to can you engage with what actually happened, with the data of what you're producing? Can you do that? Are you afraid of that? Um, are you arrogant beyond the like and thinking I'm too good for that? I don't even need to because I'm good enough because I think that that's what winners do. And if you watch The Last Dance with Michael Jordan, you would see that I mean, he's a perfect example. Or you mentioned Kobe Bryant. Some of the great athletes of all time. Like I think there's a point you can enjoy winning and like be excited about winning and not just be so hungry to win that it's like you can't even appreciate or celebrate the fact that you've accomplished these great things. But, you know, those are people that they're constantly learning. They're constantly getting better at their craft. So clearly they're not scared of what that data says at the end of their competition. You know? Yeah. They want to know it so that they can hone in on it or even like honey on what their opponents are doing. So they can I mean they're just students of the game and student of their ability and want to get better and better and better at it.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I I think it goes back to the quote again. I know it's been a little silly. Winners win. So even when you lose, even when you so-called lose, you win. It all depends on your perspective. Like there's things in life and your day-to-day and just how you operate, how you see the world, your perspective. If you have a winning perspective.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so let's think about some other areas that might apply to some of those, especially college students that might be listening. So I think that I was just thinking, you know, for seniors that are graduating and going to a job interview. Say you go to a job interview, it doesn't maybe it doesn't go well, or you just don't get the job. Like maybe the interview went fine, but you I mean, most places probably would give you feedback, but where there is feedback available, you should ask for that.
SPEAKER_01:Totally.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like what what parts of my interview?
SPEAKER_01:Why didn't I, you know, and not not being 40, I feel like uh the one thing. If I can go back and do it all over again for things, is I would ask more questions. I would just ask more questions.
SPEAKER_00:And to know it's not an indictment like that you should have known or that you're stupid, or it's none of those things. It's just literally like if you were in a sport and you got filmed and you went in the film room and you're like, how can I get better? You know? I think it's just a choice of how you see that and approach that, and you're not scared of what somebody might say, you know? And those things, those moments, whether it's in sports or in life, do expose you. And it's weird that we kind of have this like, oh, I know I'm exposed because I'm in front of these people and I'm answering questions, but then we like want to hide at the same time. It doesn't change what happened. You did answer these questions a certain way. You know what I'm saying? Like it's not like that moment didn't happen, but it's like we don't want to revisit it or whatever, you know?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Or we don't think that we should, and then They should have hired us because blah, blah, blah. You know, and it's like, no, they probably had reasons why they didn't do that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Or maybe you've lost jobs before, maybe you've lost spots on your team. Maybe you failed a class. Uh, maybe you didn't like a grade that you got. I mean, there's like all of these things, if you have a learner's mentality, it will definitely help um help you a lot.
SPEAKER_01:But yes, as Gustin said, we do a lot to r try to remove the blemishes. And I don't think they're supposed to be removed. They're formative, they matter.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Face them.
SPEAKER_00:And we don't have to be scared.
SPEAKER_01:No, and you're gonna win. Right. You're gonna win.
SPEAKER_00:I think that's the only way you do win.
SPEAKER_01:I think so too.
SPEAKER_00:Is through those.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Like if you stay on this other side where you're so scared of the feedback, you're so scared of what someone might tell you that you did. Good, bad, ugly, whatever, then you're not gonna it's it's gonna be really hard to win consistently.
SPEAKER_01:You're gonna live life trying to push a reset button all the time.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, let's talk talk about that as we wrap up, just real quick. Justin played video games a lot growing up, and he would talk about this. So share your wisdom with the pod.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think we all had uh many of the people in here. You had a uh, you know, a specifically with Madden, you would create your players and create a team and have a franchise, and you know, there's a certain uh way you wanted to beat people, you had a certain amount of stats you wanted to get for your guys and those things, and you don't want to give up any points. And so there were times that things didn't go my way. Sometimes I'd be winning by a lot, but I didn't get the shutout that I wanted or whatever. I would just start over, do it again, because that was cheating. And I would yell at the screen. This was early days, but it it's easy though. I mean, you can do that in life. You think there's gonna be a reset. Like, oh my freshman year wasn't when I wanted reset, I'll go somewhere else. Or um uh, you know, I just or you check out of a season or check out of challenges because you're just trying to like start over because it's not what you had thought. It's not the stats, it's not the beginning of your career that you wanted because you wanted the perfect four-year, three-year career and being all-American in all those years, start every game, right? All that stuff, like that being realistic, considering all the other people involved in this yeah, um, or you're gonna, you know, and then yeah, so you just have unrealistic expectations, and so um, to just try to push a reset, and sometimes you need to go to a different place, a different opportunity. So there's nothing wrong with that, but um you just you gotta face it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So there's a few verses, uh, 1 Corinthians 9, 24 through 27 says, run in such a way as to get the prize. Everyone who compete goes into strict training. And so I think that that verse just talking about how you run in such a way as to get the prize. I think that winners know their standard. They know what is required of them, and they don't, at least the ones I see, um, it they just they don't require it, doesn't necessarily always require someone else to get them to their standard. And I think that if you don't have a standard for how you compete or how you we've talked about relationships, how you do relationships, it's just gonna be really hard to win all the time, I think.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it is.
SPEAKER_00:It is because it's kind of like yeah, because you're kind of you're kind of like the the mark, the target is moving a lot.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, if your identity is is solid. If your n identity is not in the things that happen around you, but just on who you are and uh who the Lord says that you are, then there's stability. And so from that place of stability is your starting point.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I like this thought too that it's about becoming who you were created to be, not just beating someone else.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And so I mean, I think that that's also the point in all these things. Like, what how does sports translate to life? Like, why are we so tuned in to sports and why do we care? And it's like these things are an opportunity. Yeah, sure, some people might just watch it for the thrill of like victory. And like we talked about finishes, you get to see these wild stories unfold. But really, you get to learn true like life skills if you'll engage with what's going on in your sport and the outcomes of these games in a positive way, like they will be formative moments for you that you'll end up being that person that's assigned to a project in your job, and you will do it with excellence and you'll finish it and you'll get promoted and all the things because you've learned these skills.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So it's it's an opportunity to become something, not just to have a win in the column. Yeah. You know?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, it's not just about beating someone else. And then another verse, James 1, 2 through 4, the testing of your faith produces perseverance so that you may be mature and complete. You know, it's it's one of those things where, again, you kind of have that boundary line where if you're afraid of failure or you're arrogant, I think those are the two things that have kind of come to the surface where it's like you don't think that you need this information or this data because you're either scared of it or you just don't, you know, again, think that you need it. You're gonna be selling yourself short because I think it's through the confrontation of truth that gets you to this point where you do become mature. So you can stay on that side of essentially immaturity if you want, or you can pass through that boundary of, oh, this is what really happened, and have some humility and then learn, grow. And that's how you just keep doing that over and over and over again. And then you end up finding yourself like, oh, like being able to handle situations with pressure really well, as if there's no pressure on you at all, you know, or finishing really well. So do you have any other thoughts as we wrap up, Justin?
SPEAKER_01:No, it's just nobody gets there by themselves. You have to have people in your corner. You can't just figure it out one day. Yeah. Like there's things that are taught, yes, but there's also a lot that is caught. And so are you around people that you're catching good things from? Are they modeling good things? Um, if you want to, I mean, it takes great coaching, and that is, yeah, with your sport, but just in life. And um, are you putting yourselves around those types of people is significant? So I think we have to realize that we can't get there by ourselves. And so it it takes every single person. So if you're a part of a team program, I mean, you think about the managers, you think about the trainers, you think about the nutritionists, um, you think about the sports psych, you think about the other assistant coaches and all they're doing, your position coach, um, the strength coaches. I love my strength coaches when I was here. All those people are producing something and giving you a gift and investing in you. And so um, for us to go out and think that we can just do it ourselves is so arrogant, and it's not intended that way. And so there's gotta be a grounding and a just a I mean, think about all the coaches that have poured into you over the years, all the ones that have invested, all those moments, uh the tears, the highs. I mean, there's so many things that have gone into this.
SPEAKER_00:And um so yeah, just yeah, and I think that you know, I was thinking like I think that there's more people for athletes than opposed. Like sometimes if you feel like you're trying to prove yourself or you're trying to you do feel like you're in it alone because you have to be, you have to stand up for yourself or whatever. Like, I think that I often kind of think logically like these coaches, these trainers, whoever it may be, are here because this is what they want to do with their life to help athletes be successful. So even if it comes across, maybe maybe it comes across like maybe they're not for you, but most likely they are. Like they're doing this with their life, you know, for the very reason of getting these at like getting you prepared for what you're about to face, not just and this is a unique time, you know, because you're in college where you are developing and they're not just preparing you for what you're gonna face, say when the SEC comes, like play comes, but also for life beyond college, you know. So I would say there's probably more people for you than at times if you feel like there are people against you, it's probably that there's it might be a just a perspective shift. And some of that requires us asking for help and having that humility to be able to step into that. But I do think that's what um just in observing winners, you know, I I'm going back to my my thoughts about athletes and just that culture of UT. Um, I've met a lot of humble athletes. I mean, there were some that were like chip on their shoulder for sure, but there were a lot of learners there.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That just honed in on their craft and like knew what it took to get there. So anyway, hopefully this has been helpful. We're so glad that we were able to just talk about this because we hear this often. So maybe, like we said earlier, maybe you have some comments on it and would like to share those with us. So please feel free to do that. Um, Justin, any parting shots before we hang it up?
SPEAKER_01:This came to mind. Um, just because you may have a different personality doesn't mean that this factors into it as well. I'm just counting, you know, extroverts. Oh, yeah, you're gonna talk, you're gonna ask questions and yada yada. Um, but intro introverts, this is for you too. You don't get an exemption just because you don't like being around people and talking as much.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, we all gotta be learners.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:In our own. All right. Well, that concludes this episode, and we look forward to our next episode, whatever we might get into. Um, but we hope you have a great week and thanks for listening. Thanks for listening to the Create It To Be Podcast. To learn more about FCA at Mississippi State, visit www.msdufca.org and follow us on Instagram at Hale StateFCA underscore. If you would like to become a financial partner, visit www.fca.org slash donate to sew into the work God is doing through FCA at Mississippi State.