Created to Be
The Created to Be podcast is hosted by Bethany Pigott, Justin Pigott, Darius Brown, and Brandi Morgan. Episodes incorporate what’s happening in FCA at Mississippi State, fun and lighthearted conversations that help you get to know the hosts and their guests, and real-life topics and themes being discussed with coaches and athletes.
Created to Be
A Surprise, Gardening, and the Journey of Formation (feat. Jeremiah Pierce)
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In this episode of the Created to Be Podcast, Bethany, Justin, Doc, and special guest Jeremiah Pierce explore a powerful connection between gardening and formation.
What begins as a fun and light-hearted conversation about planting, growth, and tending to a garden quickly becomes a deeper reflection on how life itself is formed. Jeremiah shares how plants and children both reveal a humbling truth—we don’t give life, but we do get to steward, cultivate, and create environments where growth can flourish.
The conversation also turns toward leadership, submission, and trust—what it means to grow when you’re under authority and when you’re in authority, and how both places shape who we are becoming.
This episode is a reminder that we are not just moving toward outcomes—we are being formed in the process.
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Each and every day realizing that I'm doing something that is producing something. I just have to stay motivated and inspired.
SPEAKER_04Welcome to the Create It To Be Podcast. It's great to be back for another week. It's always a good week when we get a good hang, huh, Doc?
SPEAKER_01A good hang. It's a good hang. I'm excited.
SPEAKER_04So, of course, I'm here today, Bethany, as one of the many hosts on this show, as well as Justin.
SPEAKER_00Yo.
SPEAKER_04Doc. Yes, ma'am. And our special guest, Jeremiah Pierce. What's going on, y'all? Jeremiah's on staff. He actually helped us launch this podcast a couple years ago. Yeah. Yeah. And told great stories, and we want to be able to share great stories on this podcast. And Jeremiah is always um fun guy to be around. So we're glad that you're on the podcast today, Jeremiah.
SPEAKER_03For sure. Grateful to be on, and we're gonna have some good conversation for sure.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, because we're extending, you know. I don't know what our listeners think of this whole like Arbor Day. Um, today is Arbor Day.
SPEAKER_01Today it just hit me. Like, today is Arbor Day.
SPEAKER_04Today we've been talking about it.
SPEAKER_00I wish this was on video so we could just see how lit up his eyes are right now.
SPEAKER_01I just it just hit me that today is that day. Yes. I've been waiting on it, but for me to be waiting and literally get to the day and still don't realize it.
SPEAKER_03That's tough.
SPEAKER_04It's not too late. It's not too late. I got a surprise for you today, Darius. Um I'm excited. So Arbor Day is also not like when I looked on my calendar, it didn't even list it for today. Um that's probably because there's a lot of different, um there's a lot of different Arbor Day depending on where you are in the United States. So, but typically the general rule of thumb is the last Friday in April. And we happen to be recording on a Friday on Arbor Day. Wow. Which this might be a good time to tell Darius that I brought him a gift. You can't see the gift, it's on that chair over there. A plan.
SPEAKER_01What? You know what? Is that for me? Yes, it is for you. Listen, I'm gonna tell you why this is so this is why this is amazing. Because I was sitting here thinking, I got to go to Lowe's. But Bethany has saved me a trip.
SPEAKER_04I just did you know, I'm gonna put this obligation on you. I'm putting, I'm putting this burden on you today to plant a tree.
SPEAKER_01Telegon love this.
SPEAKER_04Okay, and so I don't know much about this plant. Can you tell before we tell you what it is, can you describe it? I mean, it's a little like you know, not much going on, but it's not much going on.
SPEAKER_01It looks like it's in its beginning stages. Yeah. Got some yellowish looking. I don't even know if you call those leaves in the infant stage of flowery or a tree. Is that leaves, those leaves?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so this plant actually, one of the reasons um I it grow it can grow from three to six feet, and it's really more of a shrub, but I, you know, wanted to give you something that's like something my highlight.
SPEAKER_01Something my high. I'm on the short side, so I don't I won't get much shade under this one. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00No, well, this is it. Ideal as a hedge, the sunshine ligustrum, which is what it is, offers year-round golden foliage that flourishes in full sun. That's pretty cool. Yeah, flourishes in full sun. I mean, it can't be called a sunshine tree if it didn't like sun. That's true. This sterile non-invasive cultivar will not reseed into the landscape. What in fact it doesn't bloom at all, which is good news for allergy sufferers.
SPEAKER_04So I also didn't know if y'all have allergies. I got them bad. Okay, so it doesn't bloom. But it doesn't see I know you like me.
SPEAKER_02I think I'm like Darius Darius is gonna love this so much.
SPEAKER_04He's gonna be talking about the sunshine plant. Everybody needs a sunshine plant.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I will never get Arbor Day now. Yeah, this is it.
SPEAKER_04This is it. I also brought for you, Darius. I wanted to see if this is what you remembered from your child childhood. You put the bean in the bag, huh? And you put it on the window. Did y'all do this? No, no. This isn't what you did.
SPEAKER_01No. So what we had was something similar to that, but a little much smaller. A little pot. Little pot. You put it in the pot. Okay.
SPEAKER_04Well, I brought this. You can't see it, obviously, because um we don't have video. But this is typically what like kids will do. You know, they'll put like a wet paper towel, damp paper towel with a seed. I just put a pinto bean in there, but um, and then you hang it on the window and you let the sunlight in, obviously, and then you can like watch what happens. So we're gonna go to pre-K right here. I'm not gonna, I'm just gonna act on here.
SPEAKER_00You brought the plant
Plant Life Cycle Basics
SPEAKER_00life cycle for the colour. I'm gonna quit you guys and pigeon. Because we're we're gonna extend this four-year-old learning here.
SPEAKER_01She's a Benjamin Piget.
SPEAKER_04So so we are gonna extend this conversation to gardening because Jeremiah's into that. We're gonna learn from him today. But before we get into other topics, and as we're still in this intro, I want to see what we all remember from um this little you know experiment that some of us might might have done as a child. Uh so I mean, I don't know that this is the it says the plant life cycle. I don't know if it's fair to start with this one. Like, but the seed needs what?
SPEAKER_03Soy. Soil. Very good, Jeremiah.
SPEAKER_04This is why we brought you up. Then what does it so funny? And then what does it need after that? You put it in the soil and it needs water.
SPEAKER_00Water. Water. Water.
SPEAKER_04You'll get the next one. Okay, and then what happens after the seed is in the soil and receives water and sun. They kind of skipped that part.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we need sun. Definitely.
SPEAKER_04What happens?
SPEAKER_00It germinates.
SPEAKER_01I was just gonna say germinate, but I didn't know if that was the right word. That's the right word. That's the right word.
SPEAKER_04Come on, Darius. Coming in hot. Yes, the seed will sprout. And then, according to this little thing, the seed, the sprout needs sunlight.
SPEAKER_00It needs it all. Continue. Rinse repeat.
SPEAKER_04Um, and then what is it called when it's like it's sprouted and it's growing?
SPEAKER_00Oh, is it like uh this the sapling thing?
SPEAKER_04Close seedling? Is that the same thing? Uh-uh.
SPEAKER_01What I was gonna say was completely wrong. I mean completely wrong.
SPEAKER_04Okay, and then the next one in this little booklet, before you came in, Jeremiah was talking about a man that is he Oh, beekeeper. Yeah, beekeeper. So then the plant needs pollination. Pollination from the bees.
SPEAKER_03Which is cool. That's how that's how they grow, actually. They don't just like you think the plants just kind of do their own thing and keep growing, but it literally has male and female that has to like reproduce in order to make the plant bigger. A lot of people don't realize that. I did. No bees, though. No bees, it doesn't grow.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'm I I was a lot of people. I was a lot of people. You're like a lot of people don't know that I'm a lot of people.
SPEAKER_04I know. Well, it was kind of like last year we did we put a watermelon plant in our flower bed because I told Ben he could pick whatever he wanted, and that's what he picked. I was like, okay, great. Yes. So now we have these melon vines that are just like taking over our yard. Very invasive. And I didn't know that when it flowers, this is so ignorant of me, but like it needs a pollinator in order for it to, you know, anyway. So then I'd see the it flowering and I'd be like looking, like, what's going on? Where are the bees? Like, come on, man, do your job.
SPEAKER_03So a cool thing about that, say if there's no bees or they're not as much, what you can do is take a paintbrush, you put it inside the flower, and put it into another flower and just keep doing like that. So that's what bees do. Yeah. So you can do the same thing.
SPEAKER_00And you have to wear a bee costume if you're doing that.
SPEAKER_03You have to wear a bee costume. It's a part of it. It's a part of it. You go bzzz. Yeah, you definitely have to do it.
SPEAKER_01I think that's the only way it works. What would be wild if somebody actually sent us a video and was in a bee suit doing it. They get it. They did it. Oh my God. So so, but you said take a paintbrush or something that's like a big thing. No, I guess I can collect it and then move it. But what are you collecting? The pollen. Oh, just the pollen. The reason bees spread it. Pollination. Right.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Bees spread it because when they get when they're in the flower to get whatever, they're actually having all pollen on them. And it carries their little hairs on the pollen. So when they go to the next part, they're not like carrying pollen and putting here. It's just on their body. There, here, there. No, that's not the job.
SPEAKER_04Don't they like, don't they like rub their butts into it? Like I thought that they'd do that. It's just like when they look like the whole thing.
SPEAKER_03It just comes off of them.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Man, I am learning so much right now.
SPEAKER_03You know, I know.
SPEAKER_01Talking about coming in hot. This is literally coming in hot.
SPEAKER_03That's funny.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god. I did not know that. I'm I'm I'm just like over the moon, and we're 10 minutes in. I know.
SPEAKER_04If even. Oh my goodness. Oh, you nailed that. It is 10 minutes. All right. The wind blows new seeds off the plant. And then the new seed needs soil, water, and sunlight. And then there you go. That's the basic. I mean, there's more complicated words for all those things, but this is the I think I need to go back to that class.
SPEAKER_01Pre-K3.
SPEAKER_04I just learned a lot from Benjamin Pygens.
SPEAKER_00Need to audit some plant classes here in Mississippi State.
SPEAKER_04Um, we're gonna get into a lot more, Darius. So we'll take a little bit of a break from that. But yes, I did bring you uh what hopefully represents a tree. It's kind of, you know, in the middle there between plant and tree, but it's a good starter, maybe.
SPEAKER_01It's a good start. I'm excited. It's gonna look good.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's gonna look good. I was kind of like, man, I want one of these. Um okay. So we did have the luncheon, and we had said in advance it was gonna be great, and it was great. It was great.
SPEAKER_02Great. It's really good.
SPEAKER_04It went really well. Uh, we're excited about that. We added some new elements, got some feedback on that, and it was positive. So we'll continue to just make all those things better. We're
The Stretch: Gardening
SPEAKER_04gonna stretch out this topic of gardening because Jeremiah is with us and also because this is the time of year where you do these things, you know? And every year, I mean, I'm no I I'm just learning every year. And when something fails, I decide do I want to do that again and learn about it, or do I want to try something new? So this year I am trying more of like flower type things, not so plants, flowers, not so much you know, vegetables and stuff like that. I'll go to the store.
SPEAKER_00Um, but I'm just you can eat flowers, but you know.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I actually have a really cool flow uh picture of a flower. I don't, you know, obviously people can't see it, but check this out. This bloomed today in my oh that's puke.
SPEAKER_03That is nice. Is it like the velvet looking flower?
SPEAKER_04So they're called an amar, it's an amaryllis, and you normally get them around Christmas time. Wow. And you're supposed to put them outside after the last frost, and then you move them back inside before there's like a freeze or frost again in the fall, winter. And we did not. We just left it outside all year, so I was not sure what would happen with this. A little coverage under the roof right there from the yeah, but the soil is like a mixed bag in this bed. Like some places are super dry, like the desert, others kind of it's wild back there, but we planted it back there, and yeah, that's just from this morning. It just finally bloomed this morning. It was popping up. It's a double bloom. It is a double bloom, which is really neat. There's another one right next to it, but the coming out of the same stalk.
SPEAKER_01Double bloom. What's what's a double bloom? I I think you might can see in this other picture. No, I'm saying I could see that I'm saying I could see two blooms coming off the same stalk at one time. Here it is. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04You see how they're next to each other.
SPEAKER_01See, okay.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_01That is so powerful.
SPEAKER_04Which is kind of wild because there there was a stalk coming up and we actually tore off the bloom of that one. And so the fact that I wasn't sure if this one would come up, but that is a stor, that is a message right there.
SPEAKER_01Man, that's why that's why I had stopped while I was ahead. But a double bloom? Yeah. Man. Pretty cool. Okay, it is. But it is kind of like it is a blessing. See, that's double blooming. I'm I'm trying to I'm trying to hold it together.
SPEAKER_04If only we had the organ preloaded in my sound effect. Oh, okay. We need that. That's good. I'm gonna do it. That was good.
SPEAKER_01That was good. See, I was just trying to stop though, because I thought a double bloom that just did something to me.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, well, it's pretty cool. You have to come to my house to see it. But it is kind of to answer your question, it is a pretty like thick bloom, and it's actually metallic.
SPEAKER_03Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_04Like you can see the shimmer almost like glitter in it, which is crazy. But, anyways, these are Christmas times.
SPEAKER_03It's crazy how how pretty flowers are. I saw a lady who had some uh it was like a velvet looking flower, and it literally looked like the material. I'm like, wow, and it's yeah, just gonna blow you away.
SPEAKER_00Is you know, blue bonnets in Texas. You see a whole field of blue bonnets are amazing. We also saw a field of red poppies. Oh, wow, that's pretty cool. It is your eyes, it's so hard to even like take it all in. Because it's so bright. Because it's so bright and it's so like it's just so much color to take in. Um that was pretty impressive. Yeah, like looking at it. Yeah, it doesn't look real for sure. Sure. And it's like it's similar to probably going to the mountains and trying to take in the landscape and all the things that are just like, man, how but it was just so bright, and it was like wow. That's pretty cool. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so shameless plug here. We've had a lot of laughter and things to show already. So shameless plug. If anybody ever wanted to make a generous donate donation to upgrade to video here, we will take that. Um before we move on. I just thought gladly we will receive that gift. Um, because it is pretty fun to talk about these things and show pictures and stuff. But sorry you can't see what we're talking about. Um, so gardening. Um, I kind of just mentioned this, but there's kind of a couple of different gardening things you can do. Like one is aesthetic, you know, enjoyment. So you have the landscaping. Justin keeps talking about we need stuff in our front yard, like our grass needs to be different because that's what we see. And then, which is great. I do appreciate that. I do like for the front to look good, but I'm also thinking like enjoyment of our backyard because I want our family to spend time back there. So that's kind of the way we're leaning this year, more so. And then um we want to hear more from Jeremiah because there's the practical purpose of like actually growing food, and that just it I've tried, and maybe we we probably have a better spot for it, but I feel like it's a lot more work and like it's a lot to figure
Jeremiah's Love for Gardening
SPEAKER_04out. So um I just wanted to ask you, Jeremiah, when did you get into this?
SPEAKER_03Okay, so I got into this actually uh well, I would say a year it's been a year and a half now. I would say. Yeah, I got in right before like August area last year, and I just did a lot of trial and error uh YouTube, uh just learning from uh I ended up running into a farmer. He he's been growing for years, like he's in the uh farmers association, and so I got to run him, talk to him, and I just met a lot of people, and so um, but yeah, it's probably been about a year and a half uh with just trial and error, uh looking up stuff, and I was just fortunate enough to have really good turnouts, so it's been really cool.
SPEAKER_04Well, I was I was gonna ask, like, what motivated you?
SPEAKER_03Like I don't know. I think me and Shay were just feeling like I think it'll be cool to have that type of I don't know, access if you can for yourself. Like it's cool to go into places, but think about how just cool and how you know what you grown, you know what it's been in, it's not been touched, everything's natural, it's just a little bit more peace of mind. And then like it was the coolest feeling ever is to go outside, pick some okra and fix them that day. Like it's just the coolest thing ever signed. Yeah, so um we just tried it and um we were both on the same page. Like, I think we just started like, yeah, I've been thinking that. And so we just started.
SPEAKER_04Okay, so y'all have a lot like at your house that's big enough for this. Do you think that you would be feel different about it if you didn't have that kind of space?
SPEAKER_03So the cool thing about us, we've got raised beds, so uh it doesn't matter how big your space is for this. Um our raised beds are like uh I would say like a ten by two, two inch, two foot. So it could fit in a uh on a balcony, it could fit on, you know, a small yard or whatever because we're kind of based off of you know, we thought the raised bed would be better because you got your soil. You can doctor doctor your soil and easier without having to try to figure out the soil that we had in Starville is crazy. So um but it it doesn't matter if it's big or small. I think you can put it in a pot. I mean, I had some um my tomatoes and different things were in big like pots. So it could it doesn't really you don't have to have too much space or too not enough. I mean now if you got like watermelon or some some vining type plants, it will cover your balcony if you don't have enough space. But other than that, no, it's true.
SPEAKER_01Just be available, huh? Yeah, just be available. It doesn't matter how big or small, it matters just be willing. Be willing willingness, open-handed.
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh. Oh geez.
SPEAKER_04So you said that you kind of had some good with your trial and error, you you know, you had fruit producing or vegetable like you produced. So what were some of your best things?
SPEAKER_03Okay, so the peppers did amazing. Um, so the jalapenos, the bell peppers, and the uh banana peppers, they got to a point they were pushing out like ten or plus a week. Wow. And so like once I picked them, the little ones that were little, they're big, and so it was such a quick turnover to like we were just giving it away and stuff started going bad because we just had so much. Yeah, so those did amazing. Ochra was the same thing. Um, they would pop out like five or six or you know, maybe seven of them. You'll pick them. The look the ones that are medium size, when you come back, they're big. So I got to cook like three or four batches of fried okra. I love fried okra. I do too. So it was delicious. You don't like fried okra? We're gonna pray at all. We're gonna pray for you. Not at all. Listen, fried okra dude. Man, it's not a filter, by the way.
SPEAKER_04That really is his voice.
SPEAKER_03No, but uh, yeah, so okra, um sweet potatoes did good. They just took a long time. Potatoes did good, they took a while. I did learn though, I didn't have them deep enough. So they didn't get as big. Yeah, so potatoes and sweet potatoes. How big were they?
SPEAKER_01Um they got probably they didn't go as big because they wasn't as good as deep enough. They weren't rooted enough. Oh man, I love talking about gardening plants.
SPEAKER_03This is changed my listening.
SPEAKER_04Man, I really do need that.
SPEAKER_03That's so much revelation of this genetic speaking to me through gardening. It's been crazy. But um, so the potatoes, the sweet potatoes, and the onions and the corn. They needed extra deep stuff. So my onions didn't do good because they couldn't go down. My corn didn't do good because I think because of such a tall stock, it has to go down a little bit further than the other ones so those four things um they didn't do as well, but the potatoes and sweet potatoes, they grew. They did go, they did do good, but they just weren't huge.
SPEAKER_04But how big were they? They're not gonna be a good one.
SPEAKER_03Now the sweet potatoes are probably like I would say seven to eight inches tall, and then you have some that look weird. Like they're the weirdest shaping things. Like some will be like a ball, some look like a you know, a ranch. Like it's just random stuff they look like, but um no, they were good. It just um they weren't much, but like the potatoes, man, we had like the average size was probably like diameter would be like probably three to four inches. He had like 40 of them, and it was like a big box, we just put them all in there. And then a cool tip if you don't want to eat the potatoes now and you want to keep them healthy and sustained, just keep dirt on them. When you pick them out, leave the dirt, don't clean them. Because once you clean them, that kind of starts the deteriorating process.
SPEAKER_01Leave the dirt on. Leave the dirt on.
SPEAKER_03It may not look good, but it's good for your for your good. It's working out for your good.
SPEAKER_01It's working out for your good.
SPEAKER_00Some people have a space like for ones that do a lot at their house, they'll have like a separate room just for curing. And so those things will just go and sit, dry, humid, like not humid place to where they'll last for a long time.
SPEAKER_04Wow. I did not know that.
SPEAKER_03So they last way longer than potatoes in the store. Wow. Way longer.
SPEAKER_01So while you was explaining, and were you telling us some of your error in the fact that how they was growing, like some of them that was a part of the error. Okay, because I was gonna ask you the trial and error, but I I I figured that, but I just want the.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so my onions, they were going for a long time. I finally got like to the point like they're either done or they're dead. Like it's so I just picked it up and it was like I had one about that big, but the rest of them never got to form. Gotcha. Um, and they were actually from um what do you call it? Um not spuds, but um it's basically I can't think of name, but it's basically when you get an old onion or old potato and you just drop it in. I can't I'm I've lost it. Yeah, I lost it too. I didn't have to pay for onions or or uh potatoes. I just grabbed some other ones that we had, dumped them in there, cut them. Um I put them in a cup, and so what I did was I uh I got like a clear cup, filled it up halfway, I put uh little holes in the sides, like toothpicks, and I put the half of the onion or or half of the potato in the water, the other half out. Then next thing you know, you start seeing roots grow out at the bottom, and then spud spuds start coming up at the top. So it was the coolest thing. And then after I got them to like leaf, I dropped them in.
SPEAKER_04So yeah, so I was about to ask how you did your stuff because you can just, you know, buy the seeds and then so um or you can transplant, which you know sometimes is helpful. Encouragement if you already see some growth and you can be like, well, I can put this. But what we did that I felt like was satisfying, I could just never get it past this point where it was like really growing really well for us to like take feed off of. Um, but the library in Startville has it's called a seed library, and people donate seeds, and so you can just go pick whatever you want.
SPEAKER_03That's cool.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's nice, yeah. Yeah, so I mean seeds don't cost that much, but still, and so I did kind of like a little experiment. We had like little, you know, the the trays that plants do come in. We had some of those, and so then we just filled them with soil, put the seed in there, watered them. And I do think that it was like so satisfying when you put a seed in there and you get to make your own little transplant before you move it. That was really satisfying. I loved watching that like pop up from those, but I could like I could do that really well. But it was the put them in a bed and getting the pollination, all that, like that just failed. Ochra did pretty good.
SPEAKER_03Ochre's pretty they do their there are some tough cookies, okra and potatoes, they they do their own thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, I guess my question is if somebody wanted to start a garden and grow their own vegetables, what would be a suggestion to get them in the swing of gardening? Like what would be a good starting point?
SPEAKER_03I would yeah okra. That would be good, but I also would start small because you don't have to have a form in your first year.
SPEAKER_01But like I know, but I'm saying, like, I was saying like not like at specific plants. Like he said, okra.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, okra, uh potatoes, um, I would say peppers, uh tomatoes. They are easy to grow. They very low maintenance. Um, but the m I think one thing that you would do if you don't have like um some type of thing to keep pests away, just have some type of mint or some type of flour like that to kind of help. So you won't have to fight pests. That's what I was gonna ask about that. Yeah, they come. But I this is another revelation. You're gonna like this. So what I realized is bugs don't um they don't come to healthy plants.
SPEAKER_04Dramatic pause for emphasis.
SPEAKER_03Bugs, those the worms and all of them, they're drawn to unhealthy plants. They see something wrong with it and they eat it. Just like a vulture comes and eats dead things. That is the worms only come to things that are dying. So if it's healthy, it's not touched.
SPEAKER_01So if you got worms coming to your life right now, I'm joking. No, no, I'm not gonna.
SPEAKER_03Just call us for $2 to get some holy water. FJ logo.
SPEAKER_01So you you uh but this is what I was gonna say. Like, uh with you saying that, um, and and even talking about like the aspects of things, how you can grow them and how you can get started. I'm just amazed at like how much you can actually learn. I think the the process of gardening actually pays so much dividends in so many other areas of your life. Because it teaches you to be patient, oh my goodness, persistent. You know, you're talking about the climate of what it needs to be able to grow and different things like that. And so uh just with your experience, I didn't I didn't know that Jeremiah, you done all this, like you wear so many different hats. Yeah, I mean he he does some of everything. Jeremiah could probably build you a house and all that.
SPEAKER_03But but don't know a bit of Stan, but I can build it.
SPEAKER_01But the track, but the fact that you you know can come in and give uh insight about that because I have a question, but I don't want it to be looked at as dumb. Oh my god, okay, but I gotta be honest. You gotta be honest. I gotta be honest. Please. Is there a difference between green tomatoes and red tomatoes?
SPEAKER_03Yes and no. Okay. So you actually have you can go and buy some green tomatoes, but red tomatoes are green before they're red. So they're growing. Every single fruit in the world starts off green.
SPEAKER_01And then it becomes something else.
SPEAKER_03Then it becomes whatever color. So blueberries, it blew me today. It just clicked. They're green. They start off green, they're little green little dots. Yes, everything starts off green.
SPEAKER_01So the same revelation of a green apple is the same thing as a red apple. It's the same like tomato.
SPEAKER_03Well, yes and no. Sometimes you have actual red apples that turn. You need to listen. No, but like green apples start off green and they stay green. They just get bigger. Now, red apples start off green, but as they mature, they turn to their actual color. Gotcha. But everything starts off green. So you can have a green tomato that's just a smaller red tomato. Gotcha. You mean you can have a green tomato that's actually a full-size green tomato.
SPEAKER_01So I I'm not a tomato guy. Not at all.
SPEAKER_03I'm not either, but they said you can't really have a garden without tomato, so that's why we did it.
SPEAKER_01Well, well, so I like that. I'm not green tomatoes. I mean, that makes a lot of sense. I'm uh, I say I'm not a tomato guy because I can't eat, it's it's really crazy because I can't eat a tomato on a hamburger, but I had I can't eat it in spaghetti.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01You get what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_03Like it's it's I don't know if it's not by itself. Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01So, but the reason why, so the is the taste different?
SPEAKER_03Of what? The green versus the red? Yeah. I like a fried green tomato. I don't know why. I've never heard of fried red tomatoes. So I'd imagine there's I think green is a little bit more firm though.
SPEAKER_00I think green has a little more structure. You can hold up to the fryer better than the red. I think that's that's probably the only reason. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01They're good though. Have you had them? So my mom used to cook them, but I never so okra, uh, green tomatoes. Like, no, that just wasn't my cooking.
SPEAKER_03Something happened to you, man. I don't know. That's all good stuff right there.
SPEAKER_01I I I never, it's like uh it was fried. I I just nah I couldn't do it. I I mean I didn't like the the taste. I just now I'm gonna say this, hold on, let me go back. Because now what now that I'm thinking, I could do fried green tomatoes, but it wasn't a preference. Yeah. Like I could eat it, but it's not like if I see them on the stove, I'm just gonna go. Let me give me about five or six of these. Like, no, I'm not I'm not this. It could be acquired taste.
SPEAKER_00You know, the same thing goes for turf, by the way, turf grass when it comes to the pest, the disease comes to the weaker plant. And so the greatest treatment they would tell us all the time in turf was like the greatest treatment is is having healthy grass. That's it. We talk about spraying this and spraying that and all these things. Like, because you know, turf on golf courses, they have all kinds of things going down on them. And um, you know, nutrients and a variety of you know, herbicides, whatever things that you want to put down that need to put down, or uh fungicides to keep disease away. And some you have to do it for prep. Like if you know a lot of rain's coming, you need to prep to make sure we don't, you know, too much water causes certain disease to pop up on your grass. But the greatest thing is to keep healthy grass. If you're if you're grass, if you're doing things to keep your grass healthy and aware of the environment of those things, there's like a triangle they would talk about it and we talk about the different things in the triangle. One of those things on the triangle gets weak, it's an opportunity for pests or diseases to enter. And that's a whole nother version of the thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's why I'm not going to I'm not doing this.
SPEAKER_00And I say that, I say that, and my yard is awful. So you know why it's awful. I know that's a big deal, right there.
SPEAKER_01If you have a problem but know what the problem is, you don't have a problem. So I think that's the big deal. But but but now, so this is the thing. I feel like I am here to represent all of the listeners who have questions but can't ask them. That's not because I'm asking them. So I thought that turf was like created grass.
SPEAKER_03Oh, no, no, no. He's talking about like grass turf. No, no, no.
SPEAKER_01But I'm saying, but I thought all of that was created.
SPEAKER_00The fake stuff?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, no, that is created.
SPEAKER_04Saying that turf equals fake grass. Fake grass, yes.
SPEAKER_01That's what I'm saying. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, I because they always talk about turf fields.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so so so that's what I'm saying. Like, what's the difference between a turf field and like real turf grass? Like, where would I see real turf grass? That's like on the golf course, like you said. Yes, on the golf course. Okay, that's okay.
SPEAKER_00And our fields here at Mississippi State.
SPEAKER_03And then you'll see like a football field with the turf.
SPEAKER_01Right, but that's not the same.
SPEAKER_03That's not grass. That's actually man-made plastic.
SPEAKER_01So that's why when he would talk about, like he's been talking about this, he's been giving me so much information about turf. I'm thinking all of it was the football fake stuff.
SPEAKER_00So that's why when he started talking about that, I'm like all playing surfaces here are grass. Gotcha. Turf grass. Now we have practice fields that are turf. Turf, right. Which is like sharp. Yeah. But see, I'm in a major that is called turf grass management. That's what I did. And so we see turf grass, that's what we say as like actual grass terminology.
SPEAKER_01So you can see the difference. You can immediately tell the difference just by looking. Oh, yeah, 100%. Because I can't.
SPEAKER_03There's all types of grass out here. A lot of different grasses, dude. Foreign grass. Like Jason's got this cool foreign grass. I think they it's I don't know where it's from, but it's cool. It's flowy, very cool. Jason Soaker. Yeah. It's so cool. It's like, dude, do not step on his grass. You gotta walk on the sidewalk because it looks so cool. So he doesn't have to mow that, right? No, he does. But it's cool because uh, like even now that I even mow grass, it's crazy. It's another thing. But some grass you can keep at like three inches. Some grass you gotta take down like an inch and a half because it's not gonna flourish.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and then golf courses, some of these uh these varieties um are meant to be low. So they're meant to be a half inch to lower on the ground. They cut quirk cut every day. So that's they look like they are always fresh. The golf greens. The golf greens, the things that when you watch golf, I mean that that's little blades of grass, and that's exactly the way it's supposed to be made.
SPEAKER_03It's gotta be firm too, I'd imagine, to roll.
SPEAKER_00You gotta roll it and see a lot of things to it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Man, that's you gotta have a lot of things.
SPEAKER_00And there's ways you gotta give it certain things to you know, that's a little problem.
SPEAKER_01It's like, uh, I think it's a centimeter or two too. Yeah, bring out the zero turf.
SPEAKER_00And all that stuff, too. So there's different ways to manipulate all the environments. Like when you get Brandon Harden on here, he's yeah, man, we former keep going all spring. Who is over all the turf at Mississippi State, and we are once again number one in the country. Like it's like uh it's like a yearly thing for playing surfaces. Wow. So in college sports.
SPEAKER_04We're that good. Yep. We're that good. Um, so I looked up, I just Googled like what are the ages that people get into this, and the different age ranges were like when you're young, like two to seven, which is where mm, you know, I like to take Ben out and show him like this morning with Amaryllis. I've been showing him that plant, and I was like, dude, it bloomed today. Come and see it. And he's like, Oh my gosh. And then I'm like, let's go check the other ones. I was like, look, there's new growth right here and right here.
SPEAKER_00Nothing beats a Ben reaction. I know.
SPEAKER_01He's different. Yeah, he's pretty good.
SPEAKER_04And then um, you know, you have adulthood, like 18 to 34, and then like the homeowner age, which is where I feel like I kind of like started like thinking maybe we should do something because it's your own space, so you're like, I kind of want to make this look a little bit more.
SPEAKER_00And then you just start realizing how everything's so uh sprayed with chemicals, and then you're like, man, can we do something about this? Can we at least try? Can we try? Make our lives a little bit healthier.
SPEAKER_04Like, but then you have the whole but then you have the whole thing about like when do you plant things, you know? Um, and I just learned a new word this year, so I'll put myself out there, Darius. Let's go. Perennial. Do you know what that means?
SPEAKER_01Now, when I would hear perennial, I would hear stuff like perennial powerhouse. See, see, we we hear.
SPEAKER_04I mean what does that even mean?
SPEAKER_01It's like uh it would be like what you would call consider something like Alabama's football or like they are perennial powerhouse.
SPEAKER_00Every year, they know, yeah. That's what the plant is. That's what it means.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so that's the when you said perennial, my mind instantly went. Being an athlete that I was and the teams I was on, it was always a perennial type view. Right, right.
SPEAKER_04Um, no, but perennial does mean it comes back year after year, annual. It's just there for the year. So a perennial plant, you know, beyond the frost and the freeze, it's gonna come back. That's what that means, right? Okay. Um, so you know, you get some more you get more bang for your buck if you pick perennial plants. I did not pick all perennial plants because some of it was strategic with what I thought birds, you know, based on research would like. Um also I took Ben and I'm like, what you want, man? What do you like? And so sometimes we get some random stuff.
SPEAKER_01I think we may have some of those perennial plants because we did the uh the landscaping at our house probably about two years ago now, but uh it seems like the plants every year, every year, like they keep coming back, and I'm not doing nothing about it. Right, that's right. So that must be a perennial perennial plant because I'm like, it's kind of a little scary sometimes because it's like it's nothing, and then it starts blooming. It's like, well, I hadn't been out there. Antenna hasn't been out there. Has anybody been there? But it could be a perennial plant. I need to find out what plants I have in my house. This I feel bad right now. There's actually a lot of people.
SPEAKER_03Well, you got a sunshine. Yeah, you got a sunshine sunshine like a strum.
SPEAKER_01Because I do have some, and I think that's what it is, like perennial, because it's like every at a certain time they just start like blooming.
SPEAKER_00And they got some wild names. Not gonna lie, there's some things that got some pretty wild names, some of these uh plants. I remember being in Virginia for Summerball. You might need to edit this one. I'm nervous what you're about to say. I was in Virginia for Summerball, and these plants, these flowers just started popping up, you know, and I'm like, man, what are these? I've never seen these before. Virginia, different part of the country. And um, I'm staying with this British couple, Philip and Trisha Crown. I love them. I think they're both with the Lord now. Um, and uh anyway, and he would he'd be like, oh, those are called naked ladies. And I'm like, Huh? What's the name of the plant? And said, Yeah, that's what we call them. They're called naked ladies.
SPEAKER_03And I'm like, All right, here you go. Did it give the naked lady vibes?
SPEAKER_00No, it's just a pretty flower.
SPEAKER_01There's a bloom that's so do not Google that.
SPEAKER_03Oh my god, believe the flower will not come up. Don't Google that.
SPEAKER_01That is amazing though.
SPEAKER_00Be specific. Flowers in Virginia, right? Naked lady plant.
SPEAKER_01And even still, and have your safe search on. Yes, all kinds of things. But but that's that's amazing though. It was uh, and so like I know you how long were you there to notice them blooming?
SPEAKER_00Like oh yeah, the summer.
SPEAKER_01Gotcha.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_00And then they just pop up at a certain time, boom, there they are.
unknownYep.
SPEAKER_04Well, when we were in Newport Beach, is that where that was in California?
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_04Oh my gosh, the stuff that they had there. Like it just almost looks fake at a certain point because it's just there's no weeds, everything's blooming perfectly.
SPEAKER_00That's why it's worth millions of dollars for a house over there for the city. Very expensive to live there.
SPEAKER_04Um, but okay, so whenever we were doing the um I went to a little event with Abby and they had vendors and stuff, and there was a lady who had a calendar for the year for like a gardening calendar to tell you when to plant, like if you if you're gonna do seeds, when to start that process, and then when to put in the ground, whatever. So I was gonna kind of quiz um Jeremiah here on um there's also different zones, so you gotta know your zone. Uh sometimes I ignore that and just see what will grow, but um, you know, there are zones to give you a better chance of something doing well. Um and so, anyways, what you know, there's certain things to plant like February to March, April, May, July to August. So I want to see what you know from this list.
SPEAKER_03Let me see if I can remember what I saw on the back of the seed plant packets. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04February to March. Are you waiting on me to give you a?
SPEAKER_03Oh, you want me to tell you what you can plant through February? Okay.
SPEAKER_00Vegetables. Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so based off what I have planted, February to March, um you can do what is it, April now? April, February to March. I think you can do peppers. Um I think you can do basically you waiting for fruit, but like as far as veggies, I know you can't do collars, you can't do any type of uh green. Leafy green, leafy green, they're they don't do good. So it's more of like peppers, maybe like onions, maybe like uh tomatoes, potatoes, um you still can even do uh beans, but that's gonna kind of be the area.
SPEAKER_00So your sturdy things. Yeah, your sturdy plants.
SPEAKER_04Those were all on the February to all the way up to May. Yeah, good job.
SPEAKER_01Good job. Is that because of the weather?
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_00Okay, because well, there's still gonna be some some cool that pops in. And so they can hold it. They can handle that.
SPEAKER_03They can handle that. I got it. You just gotta be wise with because some of them can't really some of them say like during that time, but they also say after the f the last frost. So some of them you can plant there and they can die though, but you just gotta kinda know. Gotcha.
SPEAKER_04So yeah, in our in Mississippi, northern Mississippi, the last frost is normally mid-April. So people might wait till like April 15th or so. And then central Mississippi is normally early April, and then south is you know, the frost is earlier, so around March, you can start planning stuff. So anyway, that's uh we've talked a lot about gardening. There might be too much gardening for people on this podcast. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Things are going to be produced in people by talking about this, man. They're gonna leave and be like, I'm gonna go watch some videos on this.
SPEAKER_04There's still time. You can go get your stuff.
SPEAKER_00There is college students, man. They hear this, they're gonna be like, Man, I'm gonna, I'm not gonna get a dog, I'm gonna plant a garden.
SPEAKER_04Which might be better. Just saying, start with a plant before it does. It's least expensive. Yeah, that's it. It is. Um, but as I was thinking about this topic, and Darius, you said you said a couple times, like when we talk about the plants and everything, you're like, Man, but I just want to see it, you know? You're like, it's so hard, like the process. But I
Formation through Growth
SPEAKER_04was kind of thinking about, you know, we started this semester talking about formation is always happening, and that really gardening and the process of gardening is really about maturation and formation. So I thought we would kind of land the plane of this episode talking about those topics. Um, just like whenever, you know, like I love that bloom on that amaryllis, I think it's so cool. But I've also known the process of seeing the leaves come up, some of them dry out, we having that first stalk and then taking the bloom off, and then so like there's I've seen the whole process happen. So the bloom is super cool, but it's cool to me because of the process, because I've seen the life cycle of this plant. And um I was just thinking about that, like how you know we go through these processes, and oftentimes that thing we think we're we can have a mindset of like we're trying to get to that, and so I have to tolerate or just kind of trudge through all this to get to that desired outcome. Um but as I was thinking about talking about this today, I thought, what if I see wholeness more of like instead of I'm seeing wholeness or like full maturity as the actual end result, if I see it instead of actually wholeness is the entire process. Like that's what it means to be whole, is to to do it all. Like it doesn't have to be separated into these categories of like that's what I'm after. It's just part of the the that bloom is part of the process. Um there is a lot of satisfaction in seeing something bloom. Like I was thinking about our kids and a few examples that are non-plant related. Uh last night, Eli had a presentation called Famous Mississippians, and he chose Bailey Howell, who is a legendary basketball player here, and so he got up and he presented like he's Bailey Howell and talked about his stats and like all these things. Well, like Abby has done theater and she's done different presentations, but l the last presentation, I mean, Eli's done some science fair stuff, and then I remember watching him in kindergarten doing a how-to presentation. But besides this, I mean they had to research, write a paper, write the presentation, be in character, get up in front of the entire audience that was watching last night. This is his first year of college, right? Fourth grade, fourth grade, and like with confidence, like say these things. And so I always tell Justin when we go, and whether it's a drama performance we're watching our kids in or other kids um that we know their families, or this last night, like I get emotional. Like I just cannot help it. I just want to cry. And he's like, Why are you you know, why? And I was like, I don't it's something about seeing how I this process has started in January. I think the teacher gets them starting working on this famous Mississippians project. And so I don't see a ton of the process, but we know enough of like you know, you gotta collect your resources, you gotta make your notes, you gotta get your costume together, all these things. And so you see that whole thing, and then it's like last night was like not to be cheesy, but it's like that amarous uh amaryllis plant, like boom, like then you see this bloom. Yeah, like you get to see what all this other stuff leading up to it produces. And it's so much to me it's more satisfying seeing and knowing that story with that pop, like that that that bloom than if I just were to sit down and I didn't know the kids and I just came, like I would be impressed for sure. But it wouldn't I don't think it would move me like as much. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I I when you begin to talk, um, I went to my Twitter page and it might remind me of this because I put it like I wrote this in 2020, so I had a little sense. Um it says, We missed the beauty of the journey because we are overly indulged with the destination. And so when you begin to talk about that, it made me think it's a movie. Now, Justin, I don't know, you may know this one. Ice Cube, are we there yet?
SPEAKER_00Oh my god, gosh. I know I don't think I've seen it, but I know what you're talking about.
SPEAKER_01And what happened was he was Ice Cube in this, he's he's taking some kids. I don't know if they were his nieces or his girlfriend's yeah, his girlfriend's children somewhere, and everywhere they was going, like they was tough to deal with, they were tough to deal with. They was getting on his nerves and every stop. Are we there yet? Are we there yet the whole time there? And um it was like the the the kids that started getting on his nerves initially became kids he really loved and appreciated once they finally got to the destination. And so um it's kind of like what you were saying with that, and that's what I was thinking about with the planting and just the process of everything. Like I'm and I guess because I'm getting older, I'm I'm learning to appreciate everything that leads to the outcome. It's like the outcome is satisfying, but the greatest satisfaction for me is the journey. It's like the the moments that lead up to and and you was talking about becoming. Um I think sometimes we miss like the the blessing of becoming because we're always trying to look at what we're want to be, like what we want to become. Right. And it's like this is a part of it. Right. Like this is maybe a tough moment or you may be in a tough space, but this is forming. Right. It is it's producing something, you know. And I think about, you know, the Bible says we walk by faith and not by sight. So that side of wanting to see it a lot of times is uh is a I guess a gratification of the right now. But it's like when you, like you said, if you shift your mind to realize, man, I'm becoming something, habits are being formed, uh a character is being formed in this process. Like I don't really have to overly worry about what what I shall be because I know everything that I'm enduring right now is playing a part into them.
SPEAKER_03That's that's kind of cool though that you were talking about kids because when I was coming in and just thinking about what we were talking about, I just saw like a cool like comparison of plants and children. Um and it was kind of like what you were talking about, how I mean you get to see the fruit of it. But is kids and plants are so very familiar, like very similar, right? When you plant something, right, you did that part, but you have no strength of your own to make it actually grow. Like it takes water, it takes soil, and it takes sunlight. Nothing you can provide, right? And just us, like even at becoming a parent, right? You give birth, but there's nothing in you that can give it life. After you have, you know, birth out, right? You can give it nutrients, but like it takes God Himself to make every organ work, every breath take. Like it it takes him. And so, but it's cool though, even though we have no power, like as your garden, you have no power to make the sun shine, you have no power to make the rain, but you can cultivate the plant to be better. Even though you can't, you you can't like it's gonna live with or without you. Makes sense, like but you can put it to where it produces even more fruit by pruning it, by um making sure it's in in a good place, making sure it has enough water, right? Same thing with life, like even as children, right? You can you can't necessarily bring them life because it's God Himself, but you can train them up, you can help them be in the position to be the best version of themselves. And so that's kind of how planting is. It's just like with parenting. You're setting up and it's cool because it's it's very humbling fact, because that plant is gonna make it with or without me.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_03It's gonna live because God has the control of living, but how well will it live? And how well will it produce fruit? And so that's kind of cool what I get to see um as we're planning, as we're seeing these things. When you get to see that fruit, you know the process of I had to make sure I waited to put it out. I waited till the frost, you know. I waited, um, I had to make sure it was like last week was, or this week has been a week without rain. I had to make sure I watered it. You know, and you get to kind of relate with those things, and then when it's producing fruit, they're like, wow, even though I have no power to make it live, I helped it live to its best ability. Yeah. And so I get to reap the fruit from that.
SPEAKER_00So do you talk to your plants, Jeremiah?
SPEAKER_03Actually, you know what? I do. You know, I'm like, I started. I said, come on, girl, I need some more ideas.
SPEAKER_00You need to talk to that sunshine plant. Cling to it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, you be, I gotta be honest. We first did the uh, I told you we did the um the landscaping at our house. So when um we had the plants out there, Centenna would tell me when we first got started, Babe, I'm going to work. You gotta water these plants every morning before you go to work. Because she worked like 45 minutes from the house, so she would get up earlier. And I would get up and I would be out there watering. Now, I do have a a neighbor uh who's an avid Mississippi State fan, he's retired, but I feel like sometimes we are um I feel like it's a silent robbery. Because I feel like if I'm doing something, I look up and then doing it, and then sometimes if he does something, I'm getting it. If he votes his breads, I'm mowing mine. Like so I say that because I started uh watering the plants and I heard um through I think YouTube or something, because I was trying to make sure I wasn't drowning them. Right. Because you know, you be watering, you're like, Sometimes you can open it. I don't know, this feels like much, you know. So I was but I would start talking to the plant, but I I think it was amazing because I just kept at it and I would talk to them, but when you start to see something, it would it would be very encouraging. I don't know, and I'm gonna be honest, I think the plant was helping me live more than I was helping them live. Like to see what it's produced, it made me it's like an encouraged, like what was hard to get up early. I started being You started enjoying it. Yeah, I started I really started enjoying it. So it's it's uh it's kind of one of those things, like you said, Jess, uh the process of it and seeing uh each and every day realizing that I'm doing something that is producing something. Like something is gonna come out of this. I just have to stay motivated, you know, and inspired.
SPEAKER_00You know, another fun thing that Eli took away from this whole experience and watching is they signed autographs at the end. So like they all had the 21 students that presented it, were all dressed up, and they all signed autographs around so you can go and you can get the autograph. And so they taught our kids how to forge signatures. Wow. He forged signatures. They had to practice, they practiced too, and he practiced Bailey Howe. Yeah. It's funny.
SPEAKER_01Wow, man.
SPEAKER_00Many of them are still alive, you know. Some of them weren't, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I know so he's had two, he's had two projects like within the last two weeks, right? So let me ask you this as a parent. Like, based off of what you've known known him to do in the past, what are some of the things you were able to see him grow with these last two?
SPEAKER_04I think just the comp he knows a lot. Like he absorbs a lot of knowledge. He's very smart. Very smart. But it's a very hard thing to tra it can be hard to translate that intelligence into communication of what you know. Gotcha. Listen.
SPEAKER_03Like Abby teachers, I've dealt with that. The smartest teacher in the world cannot teach me does not make sense. I know you're a genius, but you're not helping me. You're not helping me right now, yes.
SPEAKER_04No, for sure. I think the the ability to not get like have to face that fear, obviously, of getting up in front of a lot of people and be confident. Like I think we mentioned on the podcast, like confidence isn't necessarily a thing, but there's things you can do that would perceive people would perceive you as confident. So reading things clearly, um being able to like your body posture when you're up there, you're not like moving around. So he did a lot of those things. He, as he got into his presentation last night, he started more eye contact with the audience.
SPEAKER_00Um halfway through, he started really looking up. Yeah, I was like, oh.
SPEAKER_04And he used inflection in his voice, he didn't just read at the same, he read at different paces. Uh stuff like that. That like, you know, Abby's had more practice, so it's hard when you have two kids and they're gifted in different ways. Like, I'm like, oh yeah, Abby will do that, but I don't know what Eli will do because he hasn't been in this situation. So it was really good to see like the things that I know he knows and is confident in could translate in front of other people. I don't that would be my answer. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00No, it's the same. That was good. It's a good answer.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Um, okay, so I wanted to ask you this question, Jeremiah. And we'll see if it's a good question. I don't know. But I think, and I think all of us could agree, Jeremiah is an impressive young man. He's good. He's good at he's good at a lot of things. You're very mature, you're very wise. So but at the same time, I'm sure you know you're in positions in some places where you lead, but then you also are under leadership in other areas where I'm sure you have ideas or things that you would think, oh, this would work really well, but you might not be like in that position. And we all in some way, shape, or form are in that. Like it's not like I don't think that we ever just arrive totally, you know, but there are places where you get in a more ideal position to lead, but I just am assuming there's still a lot of places where you feel like maybe or not a lot, but anyway, where you might feel like I'm being formed and shaped and I'm still waiting, or things like that. Maybe not, but your age, your abilities that I've witnessed, like I assume if it's not now, you have gone through that tension. Um and so like I was just curious if it's content if it's hard or comfortable for you to work, like allow formation to happen and just trust that. Um or or do you feel like you have to accomplish something? Um like do you I don't know if I'm making sense. Maybe you can just add No,
Leadership and Submission
SPEAKER_04I get what you're saying.
SPEAKER_03So it's uncomfortable, but uncom the discomfort is actually what causes growth. Um so a lot of people don't realize, like, I was talking to someone, um, they're going, they're getting ready for a transition. And part of the transition of what they're doing because they had a tough time at that at that moment. And I just kind of encouraged them. I said a lot of times if we are in a comfortable place, we will never move. And but what if you're the best version of you needs to move? The discomfort kind of allows you to go and forces you to go to where you need to go. And so, yes, I have a lot of different places where uh I am over something, and then I have a lot of different places where I'm under people, but what I've learned is when I'm over people, when I'm over things, right, I have so much more respect for people to be under them because I realize the effort it takes to be over stuff. Like for instance, I am uh over my worship team, right? Uh for at my church, but I'm also under my pastor. And so we get to have conversations and I get to get mentored by him, and I get to hear some of the things that are good and some of the things that are bad. You know, I get to hear both of those things, and then so like on one end, I'm like, Whew, I'm glad I'm not in your position. And then the other end is like, it's kind of cool to be in that position, right? You know, so I get to see, and I and I was telling some uh one of the guys that were at FCA, he's uh he just started come not too long ago, um, but he he works at he's a painter, he does paint and he works under someone. I said, Well, that's cool. I was like, you know, maybe you work there and then eventually you get to venture off yourself. But I told him, I said, don't skip working under people for now. Because I said, the amount of lessons you learn, right, the amount of and you get to learn it on their expense.
SPEAKER_02Right. That's so true.
SPEAKER_03That is the best thing. When you get to learn what not to do without having to pay for it, yeah, like it's amazing. Some wise words. Yes. And so when you're under some people or you're serving, first you gotta know how to serve because the best leaders are the best servers. And I've seen it all around, whether it's in church, whether it's in a restaurant, whether it's wherever, the best bosses are the ones who were the best servers or who are the best employees. And so um just taking that time to kind of respect both aspects because I don't think one is more important, even though our everyone's goal is trying to be the top, right? But you don't realize how much stress it is. So um, but it's it's good to kind of value both of them. Know you can learn lessons from both, um, and know that even though you you may be at the top, there's a higher stake. But when you get to be at the bottom, you get to learn, I think you learn more lessons at a lower risk. So just using both of those and knowing that they're both shaping you, they're both molding you. Um, and I I don't think we should ever overlook being under because it's it's always good something you can learn to help you when you get on top.
SPEAKER_04Do you do you is your natural demeanor kind of to be pretty content and just the process, or do you feel like you wrestle with that?
SPEAKER_03I wrestle with it. I think every human because you come across very comfortable in it, like if I were just to guess.
SPEAKER_04And so I don't want to make that assumption.
SPEAKER_03But no, I I I've learned to enjoy the little things. Um, because for example, I grew up with my my dad. We've had a lot and we've had a little. Okay, so my dad and my mom, they were doing very good. My mom started having seizures, so she wasn't able to work. They fired her basically. My dad got laid off in 2009. He was driving trucks, he got laid off. He ends up making a sacrifice of driving buses. And he had opportunities to go back on the road, but he would rather be able to be with us and watch us in sports. And so I saw him in that aspect of working hard, not having much, but we were we were able to make it work. And so um I I realized how to be okay with a little bit, like I think it was Paul, he was like, Right, I've had a lot. He said, I've had a little, but I've learned that you can you can do all things through Christ. I think that's what later on comes in. And so I think of where I've how I was raised, and being able to see a lot, being able to see a little and knowing that you're gonna be okay. I think that helps you have content and being able to adjust whatever room you walk in, wherever you are, um, just knowing that you're you're gonna be okay. It's gonna form you. It's just it's just being okay. So I think that's what helps me wherever I go.
SPEAKER_01I was gonna say, like just listening to you, um, at first I've been able to embrace that and see that and experience that from you, you know, um, just as a working with you. Um, and then you know, I was just thinking, um, those I wrestle, like when you was talking about that, that's something I really wrestle with. Because it's nothing like knowing you're a leader, but not in a leadership spot. It's hard. Like, like, and and I'm saying because I've I've had the experience of seeing a lot of different things. I've seen people in leadership spots, but not leadership at heart. So I'm having to follow. I I remember one time having a conversation with my wife, and um, she was telling me, You got you just gotta be humble. You know, and I said, well, I said, just think about it like this. You've in a passenger seat and you see somebody driving straight into a train and you just having to sit like that. Like it feels like you see the red. Look, no, but the reason why I say that is because like um the aspect, because being a leader, you start, you it's certain things you can pick up on when you see it in other people that man, they're a leader. They got like, you know, and and so uh that and I commend you for that, because even what you were saying was some great um points that to put out. You know, I one thing I learned is God did tell me this one time though, you're not trusting me. Cause because it's like when you trust him, you're okay with taking your hands off. It's like this ain't you get like and once he shared that with me, it allowed me to take my hands off. And then I'm gonna say this submit. When you're a real leader, it's hard at times to submit. It's like you want everybody to submit to you, but for you to submit to something else. And like it's it's challenging. And I learned, you know, that sometimes even God is shaping our leadership and how we lead from the middle or lead from a place of following. Because it's easy to, you know, you can be that because really leadership is influence. You know what I mean? And so sometimes you don't even have the seat, but you have the, it's like I got I got the influence of the room. And so, like just to hear you say that, it just made me think about just different aspects and spaces. But one of the things that I'm learning that even like you said, in following, there are things you'll be able to grasp. I think that if everybody can fully keep that in their the forefront of their mind, even as a leader, I need somebody to submit to, somebody to follow. Because, like, even in the spaces that I lead, and I know you you y'all will be able to uh kind of be able to connect with me on this, in some of the areas that I've led, what helped me to do better about the people that was following me was the uncomfortable feelings I had when I was following somebody else. It's like when you gotta, when you really can help the leader and you don't get a chance to say nothing, they uh tuning you out. It puts you in a place, am I doing the people that work with me like that? Like, like you know what I mean? And it's like this, if you know how, if it makes you feel dejected, it makes you feel like not being a part, you don't feel that helps you to say, okay, nah, I can't, if I'm doing it, I want to be able to make sure that the people that are with me are not feeling like this. So having those places of submission, they just teach you so much, you know what I mean? And so that's those are things that like I could connect with as you were speaking and as you were talking, because I'm I'm gonna be honest, that's hard for me. Like I'm just telling the truth.
SPEAKER_04It's the ultimate test of trust. It is because you gotta believe in the middle of that like it's still gonna work out.
SPEAKER_01What about this? Well, you don't fully trust the person, but you gotta trust God. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, like like I don't trust them, but God, I trust you.
SPEAKER_04This might be a weak analogy. I don't know if it fully like works out. But I mean, even what you said, Jeremiah, like the plant is gonna grow whether or not I put stuff in it or not. Now, sometimes they will die. But but you know, the the the DNA, like what is already in that seed that's gonna happen. And so kind of sometimes in those moments that I've had, it's like such a wrestle to get to that point to like let go of what I could give to this plant and just be like, it's gonna do what it's supposed to do because God's in control of all this, and that's a lot harder said than done. Um, but sometimes we are in those positions.
SPEAKER_00I remember I remember being here uh in the hotel room and Josh Gilreath, our FCA director, actually came with us on the trip, and it was me and I think Andy or I maybe Andy Wilson, teammate. And um, and I just I was sitting in that room and I was like, I feel like I can do more for this team. I feel like I can my role can change, I feel like I can help our team more. And um, and that was the year that things shifted for me, but he shared it, he's like, and Josh classic, you know, Josh, hey man, I think I got a passage for you. And he said, um that sounds like it's in uh it's in Proverbs 21, one. And uh and the scripture says it's the king's um heart is like a stream in the hand of the Lord, and he will turn it whichever way he wills.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's so good.
SPEAKER_00And so the authority above me is gonna get directed by the Lord however he sees fitness.
SPEAKER_04No matter what that person thinks that they're doing it.
SPEAKER_00No matter what they think, no matter what strategy or whatever, even if they're trying to come after you in some way, it can be turned in whichever way. And so um we we get a lot into that of like, oh man, I'm not in the right place, and maybe you're not, but most of the time it's just he'll turn it, you just have to trust.
SPEAKER_04And I like the story of Joseph because I think that story shows like if somebody it's just like there's so much of behind the scenes, and I know that he, you know, was kind of you know arrogant, it seems like, anyways, from the beginning, where it's like, I had this dream, guys, you're gonna bow to me. But the you can see how even even though people meant him harm, even though people falsely accused him, those dreams still came to pass. Like he had no control. He literally was at the hand and the mercy of other people, and still his story panned out. So I think that that's a great story to be encouraged by. Um but formation is I mean, it's always happening, it's hard. But I think that at least for me, putting these making an effort to uh work in our yard to make it a place that we can enjoy has and is teaching. Me things that I have to, I think if you're part of the process where I'm trying to change these garden beds where you know I'm having to pull weeds and sometimes I can't get them from the root, and I'm like, Great, I'm gonna have to pull that one again. See you. Um, but uh yeah, but I'm like, you know, because it's a daily or every couple days, I'm going out there and I'm tending to it, I'm seeing, I'm observing what's actually happening. And so then I can see the growth. I'm just part of the process. Um, and that's what like if I include all of that in personally information, not just the bloom or what we see at the end of the process, but like the whole like weeding, pruning, mulching, pests, whatever, like all the things, it just makes the what comes out of the ground and what blooms so much more satisfying to me. And I will say this this is a little bit of a like tangent and we can wrap up here. But one thing that has been a challenge in sports college ministry is that what was satisfying in a season of college ministry of walking alongside people in their formation and in their maturing, um, I feel like what we're getting in college athletics is just the bloom when these kids transfer. Like it's just what we can see. And we don't get to be like as part, you know what I'm saying? Like, and that's such a difference. And I think I can feel the difference. I love everybody I I love all the people we get to work with. So it's not a matter of like if I care for these people, right? But I'm realizing and maybe beginning to be able to articulate like how much this culture of sports is changing the experience of just relationships. It's like you're just getting what you can see, and you don't really get to be a part of that process as much, depending on who someone is. But that's what was when I think back to times where you'd get an athlete at the school for two to four years, what it wasn't just what they could produce at the end. Like that was cool, and it's cool to see their lives now and see them thriving. That's cool. But when I think about them, I think about all the fun times we had and times where you know I we got upset with each other at times like planning events or whatever. Um, but like how we navigated life together, like that's what made the whole thing satisfying, not just seeing what they could produce at the end. I don't know if you want to add to that, but that was like another analogy that's like our reality now that's so different that I'm like, yeah, when I get out there in the yard and I'm part of the process, and then I see that plant bloom, that feels different than if I just were to like we planted that a year ago, and I just go out and look and oh that blooms there, like it's just different.
SPEAKER_00And it's at the right pace. I think that's the thing. There's a there's a a pace, a time to do something, but then there's just a watch it grow, and you just get to sit back and kind of enjoy that. The pace is different now, and I think that changes a little bit too.
SPEAKER_01Yes, the pace is a lot different, it's so fast. It is, and and and it's if you're a person that have learned to be patient or learned to like like the longevity of spending time, it could be a little discouraging at first because it's like, well, this feels like I'm working towards something that's gonna end up being nothing. You know, but um as being able to adjust, and then I do believe God allows us to have those moments, uh, and I'm not just bringing him up, but like a Josh Hubbard to kind of help you realize like there will be some. You know, I was on my way in here, and one of the players who's who's gonna be here next year, like he called my name. I didn't recognize his vehicle, but I just like turned around, and it's like you could see those small seeds of moments that you still choosing to be uh intentional, right? You know, what what what it is building. And so um, I mean it it has changed the landscape of a lot of things, you know. Um that's just the truth, you know. But but I I I just feel like as we continue to just embrace being who we are and then realizing that you know you won't be able to uh quote you may not have that experience with everybody, but you will have it with someone.
SPEAKER_04Right for sure. Yeah, I just want to make that like little crossover analogy of how it feels, the satisfaction that comes with a process and then seeing the result. Like it just feels deeper. Uh as just a human, it just feels better. It does. Um so a couple of definitions, just real quick as we wrap up formation, an act of giving form or shape to something, or of taking form, and then to be mature, having completed natural growth and development. Um, those are things that I thought were interesting as I was getting ready for today. Um, but anyway, any parting shots before we wrap up here?
SPEAKER_01No, I'm glad about Arbor Day. Got me a tree. All right. Uh the go home and plant.
SPEAKER_00Start your garden today. You can do it. Yeah, I just think Jeremiah shared some goal with us today. Not just the I mean the gardening stuff was fun, but just even what he was saying about leadership and the bottom at the top, and appreciating both and learning as much as you can in both. And that's an ever-evolving thing. But servant leadership always wins in the long path, in the long haul, and it's always it's sustainable. So that's a big thing too.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I think that that type of seeing I a lot of things for me is just like tweaking how I see something. So if I'm if I categorize things almost in a linear fashion of like you start here and you climb your way to the top, that's one way you could see things. But if you see it's all for the sake of formation, then it's like it doesn't really matter where you're at. Well yeah, yeah. You know? Wow. Like it can all be satisfying. It doesn't, we don't have to put these things in categories of like I can enjoy life, things can be satisfying when I get to it. Doesn't it just you can be satisfied in everything. Yep, yeah, because it's all the same.
SPEAKER_03The great prophet um Mile Cyrus says I thought you were gonna say it's the climb.
SPEAKER_04It's the climb. Yes, thank you. Thank you. Well, thank you so much, Jeremiah, for joining us today. Um, of course, it was another great hang, and we look forward to chatting again next week. Thanks for listening to the Create It To Be Podcast. To learn more about FCA at Mississippi State, visit www.msufca.org and follow us on Instagram at halestatefca underscore. If you would like to become a financial partner, visit www.fca.orgslash donate to sew into the work God is doing through FCA at Mississippi State.