WEBVTT 00:00:00.029 --> 00:00:07.660 IT'S NOT JUST I'M GOING TO WEAR PRIDE COLORS DURING THE MONTH OF JUNE OR I'M GOING TO SUPPORT BLACK HISTORY MONTH IN THE MONTH OF FEBRUARY. 00:00:07.725 --> 00:00:10.198 IT'S THIS IS PART OF WHO I AM. 00:00:10.266 --> 00:00:12.570 IT'S MY DNA AND IT'S MY RESPONSIBILITY. 00:00:12.635 --> 00:00:15.720 AND IT'S THE IT'S VERY MUCH MANAGEMENT. 00:00:15.785 --> 00:00:18.359 101, WALK THE WALK AND TALK THE TALK, BUT. 00:00:18.570 --> 00:00:19.920 DO IT YEAR ROUND. 00:00:28.109 --> 00:00:29.550 HELLO EVERYONE AND WELCOME. 00:00:29.615 --> 00:00:40.590 CLOUT FOR GOOD IS A BI WEEKLY PODCAST THAT SHOWCASES PERSONAL AND POWERFUL CONVERSATIONS WITH PROMINENT LGBTQ+ EXECUTIVES WHO ARE OUT IN THE WORKPLACE. 00:00:40.859 --> 00:00:52.859 THE CONVERSATIONS ARE MEANT TO CREATE A SUPPORTIVE COMMUNITY TO INSPIRE LGBTQ+ PEOPLE, THEIR EMPLOYERS AND ALLIES TO BUILD EQUITY AND INCLUSION IN THE WORKPLACE. 00:00:53.399 --> 00:00:56.340 TODAY, I'M HONORED TO WELCOME JIM FIELDING. 00:00:56.405 --> 00:01:04.688 JIM AND I MET YEARS AGO WHEN WE WERE BOTH SERVING ON THE NATIONAL BOARD OF DIRECTORS FOR GLISSON, THE GAY LESBIAN STRAIGHT EDUCATION NETWORK. 00:01:04.756 --> 00:01:12.090 JIM IS A PROUD OHIO NATIVE AND INDIANA UNIVERSITY HOOSIER, WHERE HE SERVES ON THE UNIVERSITY'S FOUNDATION. 00:01:12.180 --> 00:01:29.640 HE STARTED HIS CAREER ON THE DEPARTMENT STORE FLOOR, AND OVER THE PAST 30 YEARS, HE'S LED CONSUMER PRODUCT GROUPS AT SOME OF THE WORLD'S MOST BELOVED MEDIA AND RETAIL BRANDS, INCLUDING THE GAP, DISNEY, CLAIRE'S, DREAMWORKS AND 20TH CENTURY FOX. 00:01:29.706 --> 00:01:34.650 JIM IS CURRENTLY A PARTNER AT ARCHER GRAY, AN INDEPENDENT MEDIA COMPANY. 00:01:34.739 --> 00:01:53.010 HE'S PASSIONATE ABOUT THE QUEER COMMUNITY AND ADVOCATES FOR HIGHER EDUCATION FOR DIVERSITY, EQUITY AND INCLUSION, AND RECENTLY HAS LAUNCHED A NEW BOOK TITLED ALL PRIDE NO EGO A QUEER EXECUTIVE'S JOURNEY TO LIVING AND LEADING AUTHENTICALLY. 00:01:53.075 --> 00:01:57.420 HE'S COMMITTED TO SAFE AND AUTHENTIC SPACES FOR ALL INDIVIDUALS. 00:01:57.486 --> 00:01:58.858 JIM, WELCOME TO THE SHOW. 00:01:58.926 --> 00:02:00.120 THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME. 00:02:00.186 --> 00:02:01.069 IT'S GREAT TO SEE YOU. 00:02:01.135 --> 00:02:02.459 YEAH, SAME, JIM. 00:02:02.525 --> 00:02:05.426 WELL, LISTEN, I'M REALLY EXCITED TO TALK WITH YOU TODAY. 00:02:05.492 --> 00:02:06.519 I JUST FINISHED RECORDING. 00:02:06.629 --> 00:02:10.830 I'VE JUST FINISHED READING ALL PRIDE AND EGO OVER LABOR DAY WEEKEND. 00:02:10.895 --> 00:02:11.460 YES. 00:02:11.526 --> 00:02:19.050 I LOVE HOW YOU SHARED SO MUCH VULNERABILITY AND REALLY APPRECIATE THE PRACTICAL ADVICE THAT YOU PROVIDED FOR YOUR READERS. 00:02:19.116 --> 00:02:19.680 GREAT. 00:02:19.746 --> 00:02:37.169 AND IN THE BOOK YOU INCLUDED A QUOTE FROM SOMEONE I ADMIRE, ARMISTEAD MAUPIN, THE AUTHOR OF TALES IN THE CITY, WHERE HE STATES THAT HIS ONE REGRET IN LIFE WAS HIDING HIS IDENTITY FOR TOO LONG AND HE ENCOURAGES OTHERS NOT TO MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE. 00:02:37.288 --> 00:02:46.650 CAN YOU TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR COMING OUT STORY AND WHEN AND WHY YOU WHEN AND WHY YOU CHOSE TO DO THAT IN SOME OF THE EXPERIENCES THAT CAME ALONG WITH IT? 00:02:46.716 --> 00:02:47.400 YEAH. 00:02:47.466 --> 00:02:47.966 YEAH. 00:02:48.032 --> 00:02:51.628 I MEAN, I THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR STARTING WITH THAT QUOTE. 00:02:51.780 --> 00:02:54.000 THAT QUOTE WAS IN A STARBUCKS CUP, BY THE WAY. 00:02:54.066 --> 00:02:55.468 THAT'S WHERE I SAW THAT GO. 00:02:56.008 --> 00:03:01.810 UM, SO, YEAH, I MEAN, I, I KNEW I WAS GAY MY ENTIRE LIFE. 00:03:01.876 --> 00:03:05.340 I WRITE IN THE BOOK THAT I PROBABLY KNEW AT 6 OR 7. 00:03:05.406 --> 00:03:06.870 I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT IT WAS CALLED. 00:03:06.936 --> 00:03:08.188 I WASN'T. 00:03:08.256 --> 00:03:09.990 I WAS PRETTY SURE IT WAS WRONG. 00:03:10.056 --> 00:03:12.090 OR AT LEAST THAT'S THE WAY I'D BEEN SOCIALIZED. 00:03:12.156 --> 00:03:27.449 AND SO I'M ACTUALLY OFFICIALLY A LATE BLOOMER BECAUSE I, I LIVED A VERY I THINK IT'S PROBABLY FAIR TO SAY BISEXUAL LIFE FOR MOST OF MY TEENS AND INTO COLLEGE AND THEN REALLY JUST SUPPRESSING. 00:03:27.515 --> 00:03:39.389 I WAS A HOMOSEXUAL, BUT I WAS SUPPRESSING AND THEN REALLY CAME OUT TO MYSELF WHEN I WAS 22, BUT DIDN'T COME OUT TO MY FAMILY OR AT WORK PROFESSIONALLY UNTIL I WAS 26. 00:03:39.455 --> 00:03:46.110 AND I THINK WHY THAT QUOTE RESONATES WITH ME SO MUCH IS, UH, I REGRET. 00:03:46.175 --> 00:03:53.460 I WONDER WHAT HIGH SCHOOL AND COLLEGE WOULD HAVE BEEN LIKE IF I WOULD HAVE BEEN STRONG ENOUGH TO BE OUT AND TO BE MY AUTHENTIC SELF. 00:03:53.639 --> 00:04:10.139 AND A LOT OF IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE I'M SUCH A MEDIA PERSON AND I CONSUME SO MUCH CONTENT AND I GET SUPER EMOTIONAL WATCHING THINGS LIKE LOVE SIMON AND LOVE VICTOR AND HEARTSTOPPER BECAUSE I'M LIKE, THAT WASN'T MY EXPERIENCE, BUT I WANTED IT TO BE RIGHT. 00:04:10.205 --> 00:04:13.348 I WANTED TO GO TO HOMECOMING WITH A BOY. 00:04:14.068 --> 00:04:14.878 I. 00:04:15.150 --> 00:04:18.420 I KNEW THAT I WOULD HAVE BEEN HAPPIER IF I COULD HAVE BEEN AUTHENTIC. 00:04:18.485 --> 00:04:19.170 I KNEW THAT. 00:04:19.235 --> 00:04:21.778 AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT THAT QUOTE REMINDS ME OF. 00:04:22.259 --> 00:04:29.850 AND SO THINK THE SECOND HALF OF MY LIFE SINCE 26, I THINK I'VE DOUBLED DOWN ON. 00:04:29.915 --> 00:04:33.269 THAT'S WHY I KNEW I HAD TO BE OUT AND PROUD AND LIVE AUTHENTICALLY. 00:04:33.336 --> 00:04:35.310 I WAS NEVER GOING TO GO BACK THE OTHER WAY. 00:04:36.060 --> 00:04:41.879 YEAH, I JUST MY PARTNER AND I JUST FINISHED WATCHING THE LATEST EPISODE OF HEARTSTOPPER. 00:04:42.120 --> 00:04:44.459 SAME, SAME FEELINGS FOR ME. 00:04:44.526 --> 00:04:58.079 AND YOU KNOW, I ACTUALLY TALKED OVER THE WEEKEND ABOUT I ACTUALLY IT IT CREATES AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF FEAR AND ANXIETY AS I WATCH IT BECAUSE I'M SO NOT USED TO SEEING IT. 00:04:58.146 --> 00:05:06.959 IT SO WASN'T MY EXPERIENCE THAT BEING ABLE TO SEE THESE OPEN, HONEST CONVERSATIONS AND THE AUTHENTICITY ON THE SCREEN IS IS AMAZING. 00:05:07.026 --> 00:05:12.600 AND, WELL, YOU KNOW, IN THE WORKPLACE, IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE COMING OUT ALL THE TIME. 00:05:12.665 --> 00:05:18.810 A MCKINSEY MCKINSEY REPORT STATES THAT QUEER EMPLOYEES OFTEN COME OUT IN THE WORKPLACE EVERY WEEK. 00:05:18.875 --> 00:05:26.579 YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU SORT OF RIP THE BAND-AID OFF AND YOU'RE FINISHED AT WORK BECAUSE YOU'RE DEALING WITH SO MANY DIFFERENT PEOPLE. 00:05:26.980 --> 00:05:29.410 IN YOUR OWN COMPANY AND EXTERNALLY. 00:05:29.475 --> 00:05:34.480 AND SO YOU'RE OFTEN FACED WITH COMING OUT AND TELLING YOUR STORY OVER AND OVER. 00:05:34.545 --> 00:05:39.009 AND I'M INTERESTED, YOU KNOW, WITH YOUR CAREER. 00:05:39.889 --> 00:05:48.649 AND ALL OF THE DIFFERENT COMPANIES YOU'VE SPANNED, ALL THE DIFFERENT CLIENTS YOU'VE SERVED, HAVE YOU FOUND YOURSELF OR DID YOU FIND YOURSELF HIDING YOUR IDENTITY? 00:05:48.716 --> 00:05:52.490 AND HOW DID YOU HOW DID YOU OVERCOME THAT AND HOW DO YOU APPROACH THAT TODAY? 00:05:52.555 --> 00:05:53.055 YEAH. 00:05:53.122 --> 00:05:57.050 NO, I MEAN, THINK THINK, DAVID IT'S SUCH AN IMPORTANT CONVERSATION BECAUSE IT'S TIRING. 00:05:57.115 --> 00:05:57.860 LET'S BE CLEAR. 00:05:57.925 --> 00:06:09.829 IT'S TIRING BECAUSE AS IF I WHEN I WALK INTO A ROOM, WHEN YOU WALK INTO A ROOM UNTIL WE CHOOSE TO SHARE OUR STORY OR, AS I SAY, INVITE PEOPLE IN, WE'RE WHITE MEN, RIGHT? 00:06:09.896 --> 00:06:20.360 AND SO ALL OF THAT, THE ASSUMPTIONS AND FRANKLY, THE PRIVILEGES THAT GO WITH WHITE MEN ARE KIND OF ON YOU UNTIL YOU CHOOSE TO SHARE YOUR STORY. 00:06:20.425 --> 00:06:25.009 AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU'RE PUT IN MORE OF A MARGINALIZED COMMUNITY BECAUSE YOU'RE A GAY WHITE MAN. 00:06:25.250 --> 00:06:35.389 AND I THINK ALL OF US AS QUEER LEADERS HAVE THAT CODE SWITCH WHERE WE READ ROOMS AND WE READ SITUATIONS. 00:06:35.456 --> 00:06:47.180 AND TO YOUR POINT, WE READ CLIENTS WHERE UNFORTUNATELY YOU DECIDE HOW MUCH OF MYSELF AM I GOING TO SHARE AND HOW QUICKLY BASED ON CONTEXT. 00:06:47.245 --> 00:06:55.338 SO WHEN I MET YOU, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU AND I MET AT A BOARD OF DIRECTORS FOR GLISTENED, LIKE YOU GOT THE FULL BLOWN LIKE THAT WAS THE 100% RIGHT. 00:06:56.569 --> 00:07:12.889 BUT WHEN I WHEN I GO OUT AND PITCH A CLIENT FOR THE FIRST TIME OR, YOU KNOW, MEET A GROUP OF PEOPLE FOR THE FIRST TIME, I'M MUCH MORE CLOSE, NOT CLOSETED, I'M JUST MUCH MORE SELECTIVE IN ARE THESE PEOPLE GOING TO GET THE FULL STORY OR NOT? 00:07:12.956 --> 00:07:16.579 AND NOT BECAUSE I WANT TO GET A JOB OR I WANT THEM TO LIKE ME. 00:07:16.670 --> 00:07:19.759 IT'S IT'S I THINK IT'S ALMOST A SAFETY MECHANISM, RIGHT? 00:07:19.826 --> 00:07:25.519 I THINK IT'S ALMOST A SKILL THAT WE LEARN MEAN OUR GAYDAR, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT. 00:07:26.569 --> 00:07:40.160 IT'S A PROTECTIVE CLOAK WE PUT ON THAT SAYS, OKAY, WAIT A MINUTE, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO EARN MY TRUST A LITTLE BIT AND I'M GOING TO HAVE TO FEEL THIS OUT BEFORE I FULLY FLIP THAT SWITCH AND GIVE YOU JIM UNPLUGGED. 00:07:40.225 --> 00:07:40.725 RIGHT. 00:07:40.793 --> 00:07:41.990 AND I THINK. 00:07:42.920 --> 00:07:43.910 STRAIGHT PEOPLE. 00:07:44.149 --> 00:07:44.959 GOD LOVE THEM. 00:07:45.026 --> 00:07:45.680 LOVE MY ALLIES. 00:07:45.745 --> 00:07:46.245 LOVE MY STORY. 00:07:46.312 --> 00:07:47.509 THEY DON'T HAVE TO THINK LIKE THAT, RIGHT? 00:07:47.576 --> 00:07:50.180 THEY JUST ENTER A ROOM AND THEY PRESENT AS THEY ARE. 00:07:50.389 --> 00:07:55.040 I THINK THAT WE DO THAT OUR ENTIRE LIVES, AND IT GETS TIRING. 00:07:55.105 --> 00:07:56.370 AND, UM. 00:07:56.480 --> 00:08:05.870 BUT I ALSO THINK IT'S WHAT MAKES US GOOD LEADERS BECAUSE WE, WE READ ROOMS, WE READ CONTEXT REALLY, REALLY WELL AND THINK WE ACTIVELY LISTEN. 00:08:05.935 --> 00:08:13.220 I THINK WE'RE REALLY GOOD ACTIVE LISTENERS BECAUSE WE LISTEN FOR CUES THAT ALLOW YOU TO OPEN UP OR NOT. 00:08:14.389 --> 00:08:31.699 YOU KNOW, JIM, IN YOUR BOOK YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING THAT REALLY RESONATED WITH ME, AND I HAVE MY OWN EXPERIENCE THAT MIRRORS YOURS, WHICH WAS YOU SAID AND AS YOU JUST MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, WHEN I SHOW UP, THE FEAR AND THE ANXIETY OF WHAT WILL PEOPLE THINK OF ME? 00:08:31.766 --> 00:08:35.690 AND YOU MENTIONED IN THE BOOK HAVING INSECURITIES AROUND YOUR OWN VOICE. 00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:44.058 AND FOR YEARS I WOULD GET UP IN FRONT OF GROUPS ALWAYS, YOU KNOW, LEADING SOMETHING AND A PART OF SOMETHING. 00:08:44.298 --> 00:08:59.808 AND AT VISA, WE HAD A PROGRAM THAT EVERYONE HAD TO COMPLETE WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT I WORKED IN, AND IT WAS REALLY A WEEK LONG BOOTCAMP ABOUT ARTICULATION, SPEECH DELIVERY, ENGAGING. 00:08:59.875 --> 00:09:10.038 WE WERE WORKING WITH A LOT OF CLIENTS AND THAT WEEK YOU NEEDED TO BE RECORDED AND THEN HAVE YOUR VIDEO PLAYED BACK IN FRONT OF A LARGE CLASSROOM OF PEOPLE. 00:09:10.105 --> 00:09:12.830 AND I WAS TERRIFIED. 00:09:12.895 --> 00:09:13.580 HORRIFYING. 00:09:13.645 --> 00:09:16.230 I COULD FEEL IT LIKE THE HAIRS STANDING UP IN THE BACK, RIGHT? 00:09:16.490 --> 00:09:19.528 AND I THOUGHT, HOW AM I GOING TO DO THIS? 00:09:19.596 --> 00:09:29.028 WE HAD COACHING SESSIONS THROUGHOUT THE WEEK AND I BROKE DOWN IN TEARS TELLING THIS COACH, I THINK PEOPLE THINK THIS OF ME. 00:09:29.096 --> 00:09:31.460 I THINK I SOUND LIKE THIS. 00:09:31.525 --> 00:09:34.428 I THINK THAT MAKES MAKES ME LESS THAN. 00:09:34.495 --> 00:09:42.230 AND YOU KNOW, AFTER THAT WEEK, WHILE IT WAS ANXIETY PRODUCING, I LEARNED YOU HAVE A POWERFUL VOICE. 00:09:42.296 --> 00:09:43.908 IT'S OKAY THE WAY IT IS. 00:09:43.975 --> 00:09:45.408 IT'S IT WORKS. 00:09:45.475 --> 00:09:46.460 YOU'RE OKAY. 00:09:46.525 --> 00:09:50.298 AND SO IT'S REALLY IT'S REALLY TOUGH TO OVERCOME THAT. 00:09:50.365 --> 00:10:17.750 AND I DO AGREE WITH YOU MODULATING AND CODE SWITCHING AND PRESENTING, YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S SHOWING UP FOR A MEETING AND THE TOPIC IS A TOPIC THAT MAY NOT BE ONE I'M INVOLVED IN WITH GOLF OR FANTASY FOOTBALL AND FEELING LIKE AN OUTSIDER AND FIGURING OUT, YOU KNOW, ONE ONE OF MY PRIOR COLLEAGUES, I REMEMBER IN FRONT OF AN ENTIRE STAFF MEETING AND I THINK THIS IS SOME PROGRESS THAT'S HAPPENING, WAS ASKED, YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE SOME OF YOUR FAVORITE SHOWS? 00:10:17.816 --> 00:10:21.950 AND HE STOOD RIGHT UP AND SAID, MY FAVORITE SHOW IS RUPAUL'S DRAG RACE. 00:10:22.015 --> 00:10:24.830 AND AGAIN, ANXIETY PRODUCING FOR ME. 00:10:24.918 --> 00:10:42.470 YEAH, BUT BUT HOPEFULLY I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, AS YOU MENTIONED IN YOUR BOOK, YOU ALSO GIVE ADVICE ON SHOWING UP AUTHENTICALLY AND NOT DISSECTING YOURSELF INTO ACCEPTABLE AND UNACCEPTABLE THESE LIKE THESE THINGS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. 00:10:42.535 --> 00:10:53.330 AND SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK OF A YOUNGER QUEER PROFESSIONAL OR EVEN A SEASONED, BUT MAYBE SOMEWHAT CLOSETED QUEER PROFESSIONAL. 00:10:53.395 --> 00:11:02.298 WHAT WHAT ADVICE DO YOU GIVE FOR FOLKS TO BE ABLE TO BEGIN TO SHOW UP MORE AUTHENTICALLY AND HOW DO THEY NAVIGATE IT SAFELY? 00:11:02.365 --> 00:11:05.928 BECAUSE SOMETIMES MAYBE IT ISN'T SAFE FOR THEM FOR WHATEVER REASON? 00:11:06.048 --> 00:11:09.019 WELL, YEAH, AND I THINK THAT'S SUCH AN IMPORTANT WORD, DAVID. 00:11:09.086 --> 00:11:20.658 AND WE HAVE THAT IN COMMON FROM OUR WORK AND GLISTEN BECAUSE WE WERE SO FOCUSED ON SAFE SCHOOLS AND THINK A LOT OF MY LEARNINGS AND MY LINGO COME FROM THE SAFE SCHOOL SIDE BECAUSE IT'S ABOUT SAFE ENVIRONMENTS, RIGHT? 00:11:20.725 --> 00:11:26.928 AND I MEAN, THE FIRST THING I ALWAYS SAY IS PERSONAL SAFETY AND FINANCIAL SECURITY ARE OUR PARAMOUNT. 00:11:26.995 --> 00:11:29.720 AND YOU NEVER SHOULD PUT YOURSELF IN A SITUATION. 00:11:29.785 --> 00:11:39.470 DON'T CARE HOW MUCH I PROMOTE LIVING AUTHENTICALLY, WHERE YOU'RE PUTTING YOURSELF IN ANY KIND OF DANGER OF LOSING A JOB OR PHYSICAL HARM, BECAUSE THAT'S REAL IN OUR COMMUNITY. 00:11:39.535 --> 00:11:42.798 AND THAT HAS TO BE THE FIRST FILTERS FOR SURE. 00:11:43.460 --> 00:12:01.639 THE THING THAT I TALK ABOUT, AND PARTICULARLY NOW THAT I'M OUT ON THE ROAD WITH WITH THIS BOOK TOUR, IS THE GLORY OF THE INFORMATION AGE AND THE TECHNOLOGY AGE AS YOU CAN DO A TON OF RESEARCH ON PEOPLE, GROUPS, COMPANIES, GROUPS YOU'RE PRESENTING TO YOU BEFORE YOU GO INTO THEM. 00:12:01.706 --> 00:12:10.278 AND SO I TELL PEOPLE, DO YOUR HOMEWORK, LIKE GO THROUGH YOUR LINKEDIN AND SEE IF YOU KNOW ANYBODY THAT WORKS THERE BECAUSE YOU MIGHT YOU JUST YOU MIGHT NOT EVEN KNOW. 00:12:10.346 --> 00:12:14.149 YOU MIGHT HAVE LOST TOUCH OR READ ON THINGS LIKE GLASSDOOR. 00:12:14.216 --> 00:12:15.320 THERE'S SO MANY THINGS. 00:12:15.385 --> 00:12:21.765 THERE'S SO MANY RESOURCES NOW WHERE YOU CAN GO LIKE IF YOU DON'T GO IN PREPARED, LIKE SHAME ON YOU IN A WEIRD WAY. 00:12:21.832 --> 00:12:25.399 AND YES, AS THE QUEER INDIVIDUAL, WE HAVE TO DO THAT HOMEWORK. 00:12:25.466 --> 00:12:26.480 SO IS THAT MORE WORK? 00:12:26.546 --> 00:12:27.230 YES. 00:12:27.296 --> 00:12:28.908 DOES A STRAIGHT PERSON HAVE TO DO THIS? 00:12:28.975 --> 00:12:29.570 NO. 00:12:29.635 --> 00:12:39.379 BUT MEAN ANY HONESTLY, ANY STRAIGHT PERSON, ANYBODY THAT'S PITCHING A NEW JOB SHOULD DO RESEARCH ON THEIR EMPLOYER AND THEIR POTENTIAL CLIENT OR ON A POTENTIAL EMPLOYER. 00:12:39.446 --> 00:12:42.440 BUT THINK WE HAVE LIKE THESE NUANCES OF GOING. 00:12:42.505 --> 00:12:43.120 A LITTLE BIT DEEPER. 00:12:43.186 --> 00:12:44.389 DO THEY HAVE PRIDE GROUPS? 00:12:44.456 --> 00:12:50.990 DO THEY HAVE GROUPS FOR BLACK LIVES MATTER OR WOMEN'S RIGHTS GROUPS LIKE THAT TELLS YOU A LOT ABOUT A COMPANY. 00:12:51.056 --> 00:12:52.879 IT TELLS YOU A LOT ABOUT A SITUATION. 00:12:53.360 --> 00:13:08.600 AND AND JUST LIKE I TELL PEOPLE, JUST DO YOUR HOMEWORK AND BE PREPARED AND HAVE OPTIONS MEAN THINK THAT MODULARITY THAT CODE SWITCHING IS HAVING OPTIONS OF LIKE HOW FAR YOU'RE GOING TO GO. 00:13:08.666 --> 00:13:13.190 AND YOU KNOW, AS I GET OLDER IN MY CAREER DAVID YOU'RE AT THAT POINT TWO. 00:13:13.308 --> 00:13:16.940 I ALSO CAN CHOOSE NOT TO WORK WITH SOMEBODY, RIGHT? 00:13:17.005 --> 00:13:25.580 LIKE, SO IF I IF SOMETHING IF THERE'S A RED FLAG THAT COMES UP IN MY RESEARCH OR SOMEBODY I RUN INTO, I'M NOT EVEN GOING TO PUT MYSELF IN THAT SITUATION. 00:13:25.645 --> 00:13:29.210 NOW I'M AT A DIFFERENT POINT IN MY CAREER, AM NOT BEING CAVALIER ABOUT THAT. 00:13:29.538 --> 00:13:40.580 BUT I, I HAD THAT SITUATION IN CHICAGO A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO WHERE A YOUNG WOMAN THAT CAME TO ONE OF MY EVENTS SAID SHE DOESN'T FEEL RIGHT AT WORK AND SAID, HERE'S HERE'S THE THING. 00:13:40.645 --> 00:13:41.178 I WILL TELL YOU. 00:13:41.245 --> 00:13:42.620 YOU ARE IN CHICAGO. 00:13:42.686 --> 00:13:44.149 YOU HAVE AN MBA. 00:13:44.216 --> 00:13:45.528 YOU ARE EXTREMELY MARKETABLE. 00:13:45.596 --> 00:13:53.990 I WOULD START LOOKING FOR OTHER OPPORTUNITIES BECAUSE YOU CAN'T CHANGE A COMPANY OVERNIGHT, BUT YOU CAN MOVE YOURSELF. 00:13:54.168 --> 00:14:02.178 AND I THINK THAT'S ALSO WITH AGE COMES THAT WISDOM OF KNOWING I CAN IMPACT, BUT I CAN'T CHANGE. 00:14:02.245 --> 00:14:04.399 I CAN'T CHANGE AN ENTIRE COMPANY CULTURE. 00:14:05.269 --> 00:14:11.778 AND IF IT'S A COMPANY CULTURE THAT'S NOT SAFE AND NOT PROTECTIVE, I WOULD LOOK FOR A DIFFERENT ONE. 00:14:12.620 --> 00:14:13.908 IT'S IT'S GREAT ADVICE. 00:14:13.975 --> 00:14:17.389 AND I COULDN'T AGREE MORE ON THE SAFETY AND THE FINANCIAL SECURITY. 00:14:17.456 --> 00:14:30.320 YOU DO HAVE TO START THERE AND THINK, YOU KNOW, ONE THING IN TALKING WITH YOU THAT I KNOW THE LISTENERS WILL BE REALLY INTERESTED IN IS, YOU KNOW, COMING OUT IN THE WORKPLACE. 00:14:30.385 --> 00:14:33.470 WHILE IT CAN BE CHALLENGING, IT CAN BE REALLY POWERFUL. 00:14:33.535 --> 00:14:37.639 AND WE KNOW STUDIES SHOW THAT BUSINESSES ARE MORE PRODUCTIVE. 00:14:37.706 --> 00:14:39.259 THEY DRIVE TO BETTER RESULTS. 00:14:39.326 --> 00:14:44.240 EMPLOYEES ARE HAPPIER WHEN THERE'S A SUPPORTIVE AND INCLUSIVE ENVIRONMENT. 00:14:44.306 --> 00:14:56.990 AND SO WHEN, AS YOU SAY TO THAT, YOUR ADVICE TO YOUR YOUR READER THAT MAYBE YOU NEED TO LOOK FOR SOME SOME OTHER OPPORTUNITIES BECAUSE MAYBE YOU'RE NOT AT THE PLACE WHERE CHANGE IS GOING TO BE SOMETHING YOU CAN DELIVER. 00:14:57.056 --> 00:15:02.690 BUT I KNOW YOUR POSITIONS OF POWER AND INFLUENCE HAVE ALLOWED YOU TO DO THAT. 00:15:02.755 --> 00:15:12.620 SO WHAT ARE SOME MAYBE EXAMPLES YOU COULD SHARE WITH LISTENERS ABOUT WAYS THAT YOU, AS I SAY, HAVE USED YOUR CLOUT FOR GOOD AND THAT IT MADE A DIFFERENCE? 00:15:12.889 --> 00:15:17.480 WHAT ARE SOME THINGS WHERE YOU FOUND SUCCESS IN USING THAT INFLUENCE? 00:15:17.546 --> 00:15:54.285 YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK I THINK AS YOU MOVE UP IN YOUR CAREER AND TAKE ON POSITIONS OF MORE RESPONSIBILITY, WHICH USUALLY MEANS YOU HAVE MORE PEOPLE REPORTING TO YOU OR YOU'RE MANAGING LARGER TEAMS, UM, I HAVE WORKED OVERTIME TO MAKE SURE THAT I'M CREATING IN MY OWN WORK GROUP A REALLY POSITIVE, PRODUCTIVE, PROTECTIVE CULTURE AND THAT HOPEFULLY WE'RE SERVING AS A ROLE MODEL AND AN INSPIRATION TO OTHER PEOPLE IN OUR COMPANY FOR, YOU KNOW, GROUPS THAT WE COLLABORATE WITH, PEOPLE THAT WE WORK WITH. 00:15:54.352 --> 00:16:04.908 CROSS-FUNCTIONALLY I THINK THAT'S THE BIGGEST THING IS TO MAKE SURE YOUR HOUSE IS IN ORDER BEFORE YOU GO OUT AND START JUDGING OTHER PEOPLE, FRANKLY, UM, AND THINK. 00:16:04.975 --> 00:16:20.418 THE OTHER THING IS I'VE ALWAYS, WITH THE RISE OF THESE RESOURCE GROUPS, PRIDE GROUPS, BLACK LIVES MATTER GROUPS, I'VE ALWAYS ATTENDED THOSE MEETINGS, VOLUNTEERED TO PARTICIPATE IN THOSE MEETINGS, EVEN VOLUNTEERED TO BE AN EXECUTIVE SPONSOR IF THEY NEED ONE. 00:16:20.485 --> 00:16:25.940 AND NOT JUST DURING PRIDE MONTH OR BLACK HISTORY MONTH, BUT 365 DAYS A YEAR. 00:16:26.005 --> 00:16:38.210 AND ONE OF THE THINGS I WRITE ABOUT IN THE BOOK IS I NEVER INTENDED IT, BUT JUST BY LIVING AUTHENTICALLY AND LEADING MY LIFE THIS WAY, YOU BECOME AN ADVOCATE AND YOU BECOME AN ACTIVIST IN AN ODD WAY. 00:16:38.870 --> 00:16:43.850 AND I REALIZED THAT, AGAIN, IT'S A 365 DAY YEAR COMMITMENT. 00:16:43.916 --> 00:16:51.408 IT'S NOT JUST I'M GOING TO WEAR PRIDE COLORS DURING THE MONTH OF JUNE OR I'M GOING TO SUPPORT BLACK HISTORY MONTH IN THE MONTH OF FEBRUARY. 00:16:51.475 --> 00:16:56.298 IT'S THIS IS PART OF IT'S MY DNA AND IT'S MY RESPONSIBILITY. 00:16:56.365 --> 00:16:59.450 AND IT'S THE IT'S VERY MUCH MANAGEMENT. 00:16:59.515 --> 00:17:03.798 101 WALK THE WALK AND TALK THE TALK BUT DO IT YEAR ROUND. 00:17:04.838 --> 00:17:06.528 I COULDN'T AGREE MORE. 00:17:06.596 --> 00:17:21.078 AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, I JUST SAW UM, AND WATCH THE US OPEN OVER THE LAST FEW WEEKS AND AND BILLIE JEAN KING TOTALLY WEARS A VERY SUBTLE RAINBOW STRIPED WATCH. 00:17:21.145 --> 00:17:22.880 AND TO YOUR POINT, SHE'S COMMITTED. 00:17:22.945 --> 00:17:23.480 SHE'S THERE. 00:17:23.546 --> 00:17:25.818 IT'S NOT WHAT SHE TALKS ABOUT ALL THE TIME. 00:17:25.885 --> 00:17:31.730 IT'S BUT IT IS HER IDENTITY AND SHE'S NOT AFRAID TO TO SHOW IT AND THINK. 00:17:32.210 --> 00:17:42.250 YOU KNOW, LIKE YOU MENTIONED WITH GLISTEN, WE LEARNED THAT IN SCHOOLS WHEN THERE'S ONE OUT STAFF MEMBER OR INDIVIDUAL AS PART OF THAT EDUCATION THAT. 00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:51.190 SYSTEM, THE STATS AND THE INCLUSIVITY AND SORT OF DROPOUT RATES AND ABSENTEE RATES ALL IMPROVE. 00:17:51.400 --> 00:17:56.828 AND AND THERE'S REPORTS OUT THERE THAT I'VE READ THAT THE SAME THING HAPPENS IN THE WORKPLACE. 00:17:56.895 --> 00:17:58.509 AND SO I THINK THAT'S GREAT ADVICE. 00:17:58.576 --> 00:18:14.710 IF YOU IF YOU ARE IN A POSITION TO INFLUENCE EMPLOYEES AND OTHER DEPARTMENTS TO TO TAKE THAT STAND, TO SAY WHO YOU ARE AND TO SHOW UP AS YOU FEEL YOU CAN AT WORK AND YOU KNOW THE CLOUT FOR GOOD COMMUNITY. 00:18:14.776 --> 00:18:22.630 THE LISTENERS OF THE PODCAST, IT INCLUDES QUEER PEOPLE WHO ARE SAYING, HEY, WHAT CAN I DO AND HOW CAN I LEARN FROM THIS? 00:18:22.695 --> 00:18:25.028 AND IT ALSO INCLUDES ALLIES. 00:18:25.096 --> 00:18:30.608 AND QUITE FRANKLY, ALL THE FOLKS THAT ARE LISTENING CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THEIR WORKPLACE. 00:18:30.675 --> 00:18:38.230 YOU KNOW WHAT WHAT CHANGES DO YOU WANT TO SEE IN THE WORKPLACE THAT CAN BENEFIT QUEER EMPLOYEES? 00:18:38.470 --> 00:18:39.009 YEAH. 00:18:39.076 --> 00:18:45.430 I MEAN, I, I THINK A LOT OF THE STUFF WE'VE BEEN TOUCHING ON, DAVID, IS, YOU KNOW, REPRESENTATION MATTERS, RIGHT? 00:18:45.496 --> 00:19:00.730 AND SO I, YOU KNOW, LISTEN, I WAS IN LA, CALIFORNIA FOR 25 YEARS AND SO VISIBLE OUT EXECUTIVES THERE WERE PLENTY MEAN, NOT PLENTY, BUT BUT THEY WERE AROUND. 00:19:00.796 --> 00:19:04.990 IT WAS NOT IT WASN'T ABNORMAL, I GUESS, IS WHAT I'M SAYING. 00:19:05.056 --> 00:19:15.096 AND SO ONE OF THE THINGS I WROTE THIS OPINION PIECE RECENTLY AND MEAN THE HEADLINE OF IT IS DID 25 YEARS IN CALIFORNIA MAKE ME SOFT NOW THAT I LIVE IN ATLANTA, GEORGIA? 00:19:15.163 --> 00:19:15.663 RIGHT. 00:19:15.729 --> 00:19:41.230 AND SO I THINK PART OF WHAT WE HAVE TO DO AS A COMMUNITY IS NOT ASSUME THAT EVERY QUEER PERSON LIVES IN CALIFORNIA, MASSACHUSETTS, CHICAGO, PORTLAND, SEATTLE, NEW YORK, AND THAT WE NEED TO CREATE THESE SAFE ENVIRONMENTS ACROSS THE UNITED STATES AND FRANKLY, ACROSS THE WORLD, BECAUSE THERE'S MANY PLACES WITHIN OUR OWN COUNTRY WHERE OUR COMMUNITY IS UNDER ATTACK ON A DAILY BASIS. 00:19:41.296 --> 00:19:45.278 AND IT'S NOT AS COMFORTABLE TO LEAD IN THOSE ENVIRONMENTS. 00:19:45.346 --> 00:20:10.660 AND I, I THINK WHAT, YOU KNOW, PART OF THE MISSION THAT I'M ON NOW IS TO HELP CREATE THOSE SAFE THOSE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT SAFE AND PRODUCTIVE WORKPLACES ACROSS THE UNITED STATES, THAT A QUEER EMPLOYEE IN KANSAS OR IN MISSOURI OR IN FLORIDA HAS JUST AS MUCH RIGHT TO SAFETY AND PRODUCTIVITY AS A QUEER EMPLOYEE DOES IN CALIFORNIA. 00:20:10.726 --> 00:20:13.118 AND IT IS DIFFERENT. 00:20:13.185 --> 00:20:20.950 I MEAN, THERE ARE DEFINITELY DIFFERENT LEVELS AND DIFFERENT PROTECTIONS IN PLACE AND DIFFERENT ATTACKS COMING AGAINST THE COMMUNITY. 00:20:21.016 --> 00:20:25.240 AND SO I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO DO IS IS REPRESENT. 00:20:25.306 --> 00:20:37.450 AND AND IF YOU'RE IN A SITUATION WHERE YOU CAN'T FULLY REPRESENT BECAUSE I'VE HAD THIS CONVERSATION LATELY, SO I STILL KNOW MANY GAY EXECUTIVES WHO ARE IN THE CLOSET AT WORK FOR A VARIETY OF LEGITIMATE REASONS. 00:20:37.516 --> 00:20:42.548 WHAT I SAY TO THEM THEN IS WHEN YOU GET OFF WORK, I WANT YOU TO SERVE. 00:20:42.615 --> 00:20:44.588 I WANT YOU TO WORK AT THE LGBT CENTER. 00:20:44.655 --> 00:20:49.900 I WANT YOU TO WORK ON LOCAL GAY CAUSES AND YOUR LOCAL PRIDE FEST. 00:20:49.965 --> 00:20:53.920 LIKE THEN BRING THE BEST OF YOU OUTSIDE OF WORK. 00:20:53.986 --> 00:20:57.308 IF YOU CAN'T DO IT ALL DAY AT WORK, THEN DO IT OUTSIDE OF WORK. 00:20:57.375 --> 00:20:59.288 BECAUSE THEN I STILL WANT THE BEST OF YOU. 00:20:59.355 --> 00:21:04.328 AND THAT REPRESENTATION CAN HAPPEN AFTER 6 P.M. WHEN YOU GET HOME. 00:21:04.395 --> 00:21:06.700 YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE IF YOU'RE NOT ABLE TO DO IT AT WORK. 00:21:07.028 --> 00:21:08.440 IT'S GREAT ADVICE. 00:21:08.506 --> 00:21:15.848 AND, YOU KNOW, COMING OUT, BEING A FELLOW MIDWESTERNER GROWING UP IN MICHIGAN, NEXT NEXT DOOR TO YOU AND YEAH, YEAH. 00:21:15.915 --> 00:21:25.868 YOU KNOW, ONE THING THAT I LEARNED VERY EARLY IN MY COMING OUT PROCESS WAS YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO CREATE ALLYSHIP JUST BY LETTING PEOPLE KNOW. 00:21:25.935 --> 00:21:36.970 SO YOU'RE REPRESENTATION COMMENT AND YOU KNOW, THE FEAR AND THE THOUGHT OF THE POTENTIAL ISSUES THAT HAPPEN IN PLACES LIKE THE MIDWEST OR IN THE SOUTH, ETCETERA. 00:21:37.118 --> 00:21:39.578 I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN SURPRISED. 00:21:39.645 --> 00:21:42.220 PEOPLE HAVE GOTTEN TO KNOW ME FIRST. 00:21:42.286 --> 00:21:47.740 AND THEN AS YOU SHARE YOUR STORY, IT CREATES THIS REAL OPPORTUNITY AND YOU HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION. 00:21:47.806 --> 00:21:50.108 ARE YOU GOING TO SPEND TIME EDUCATING? 00:21:50.175 --> 00:21:53.140 ARE YOU GOING TO SPEND TIME HAVING THOSE CONVERSATIONS? 00:21:53.205 --> 00:21:56.230 I'VE CHOSEN TO DO SO BECAUSE I WANT TO MAKE THAT DIFFERENCE. 00:21:56.296 --> 00:22:01.990 BUT I THINK THAT FOLKS WILL BE SURPRISED AS THEY HAVE CONVERSATIONS THAT THEY FEEL ARE SAFE AND APPROPRIATE. 00:22:02.056 --> 00:22:07.598 AND AND IT ACTUALLY BRINGS ME TO ANOTHER QUESTION AROUND EDUCATION. 00:22:07.665 --> 00:22:15.670 YOU KNOW, THERE'S THERE'S THIS IDEA NOW OF, YOU KNOW, BE EDUCATED, KNOW, UNDERSTAND, BECOME AN ALLY. 00:22:15.736 --> 00:22:16.960 YOU CAN GOOGLE IT. 00:22:17.026 --> 00:22:17.920 IT'S SIMPLE. 00:22:17.986 --> 00:22:18.880 YOU CAN LEARN. 00:22:18.945 --> 00:22:39.608 BUT, YOU KNOW, FOR SOMEONE WHO'S SERVED ON A LOT OF BOARDS AND BEEN ENGAGED WITH A LOT OF DIFFERENT ACTIVITIES AND ORGANIZATIONS, DO YOU HAVE ANY RESOURCES THAT YOU MIGHT SHARE WITH LISTENERS THAT COULD BE HELPFUL FOR THEM TO LEARN OR TO GET SOME IDEAS ON HOW TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE OR BE MORE SUPPORTIVE OF WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY. 00:22:39.675 --> 00:22:42.160 CREATING A BETTER ENVIRONMENT IN THE WORKPLACE FOR. 00:22:42.440 --> 00:22:42.940 PEOPLE. 00:22:43.006 --> 00:22:43.940 YEAH ABSOLUTELY. 00:22:44.028 --> 00:22:50.480 MEAN THINK I THINK YOU KNOW THE THE ORGANIZATION THAT WE SERVED ON GLISTENED THE GAY LESBIAN STRAIGHT EDUCATION NETWORK. 00:22:50.568 --> 00:22:56.660 I MEAN THERE'S SOME INCREDIBLE NATIONAL NON-PROFITS IN OUR COMMUNITY THE HUMAN RIGHTS CAMPAIGN. 00:22:56.726 --> 00:23:03.348 GLAD UH, TREVOR PROJECT, UH, POINT FOUNDATION LIKE THAT. 00:23:03.415 --> 00:23:04.848 THERE'S A LOT TO YOUR POINT. 00:23:04.915 --> 00:23:07.278 THERE'S A LOT OF EDUCATION AND RESOURCES OUT THERE. 00:23:07.346 --> 00:23:14.269 IF YOU'RE WILLING TO TAKE THE TIME, YOU KNOW, AND DO A LITTLE BIT OF READING AND IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO MAKE DONATIONS OR PARTICIPATE. 00:23:14.630 --> 00:23:21.558 UM, BUT JUST READ LIKE JUST, YOU KNOW, THEY ALL HAVE TOOLS ON THEIR WEBSITE OR TO YOUR POINT, YOU CAN GOOGLE AND FIND THE TOOLS. 00:23:21.625 --> 00:23:33.650 BUT I THINK THE POINT THAT YOU MADE IS SO IMPORTANT AND THINK IT'S, YOU KNOW, WHY I WROTE THE BOOK IS I FEEL LIKE THE PATH OF CIVIL RIGHTS, NOT JUST GAY RIGHTS, BUT, YOU KNOW, WOMEN'S RIGHTS, BLACK RIGHTS, QUEER RIGHTS, LATIN, RIGHT. 00:23:33.715 --> 00:23:34.670 LATINX RIGHTS. 00:23:35.028 --> 00:23:37.400 UM, IT IS STORYTELLING. 00:23:37.465 --> 00:23:38.808 LIKE I FEEL THAT'S THE FOUNDATION. 00:23:38.875 --> 00:23:46.006 BECAUSE WHEN WE MOVE IN NEXT DOOR TO SOMEONE LIKE THAT'S A LOTTERY, YOU DON'T KNOW WHO YOU'RE GETTING AS A NEIGHBOR, RIGHT? 00:23:46.073 --> 00:23:48.769 YOU DON'T REALLY GET TO INTERVIEW YOUR NEIGHBORS WHEN YOU BUY A HOUSE. 00:23:48.836 --> 00:23:50.868 LIKE YOU KIND OF GET A SENSE OF THE COMMUNITY. 00:23:51.348 --> 00:23:56.838 BUT WHEN YOU GO OVER AND INTRODUCE YOURSELF, YOU'RE EDUCATING IF YOU'RE, AGAIN, WILLING TO SHARE THE STORY. 00:23:56.905 --> 00:24:09.108 AND I ALWAYS FEEL THAT LIKE ONCE AND WE TALKED ABOUT THIS A LOT IN THE 70S AND 80S, DAVID, YOU'LL REMEMBER IT'S LIKE ONCE SOMEONE KNOWS THEY HAVE PEOPLE GAY IN THEIR LIFE AND THEY'RE NOT WE'RE NOT THREATENING, RIGHT? 00:24:09.175 --> 00:24:09.858 WE'RE NOT. 00:24:09.925 --> 00:24:11.150 THEY'RE LIKE, OH, JIM'S GAY. 00:24:11.215 --> 00:24:13.490 LIKE, HE'S LIKE, OH, HE'S AN INTERESTING GUY. 00:24:13.578 --> 00:24:14.808 LIKE HIS DOG, RIGHT? 00:24:14.900 --> 00:24:15.558 MEAN HE'S. 00:24:15.625 --> 00:24:17.269 HE KEEPS HIS HOUSE NEAT, RIGHT? 00:24:17.336 --> 00:24:18.318 LIKE, VERY MIDWESTERN. 00:24:18.385 --> 00:24:18.885 RIGHT. 00:24:18.952 --> 00:24:23.180 AND, AND AND BUT THEN WE BECOME LESS THREATENING, RIGHT? 00:24:23.246 --> 00:24:34.578 BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT BOTHERS ME IN THE CURRENT SITUATION WE'RE IN AS A COMMUNICATIONS PERSON, AS A MARKETER, IS I FEEL TOO MUCH OF THE NARRATIVE RIGHT NOW IS BEING DRIVEN BY THE FAR RIGHT ABOUT OUR COMMUNITY. 00:24:34.645 --> 00:24:46.670 AND THEY'RE TELLING EVERYBODY THAT WE'RE WRONG AND WE'RE DIFFERENT AND THAT WE'RE BROKEN AND THAT, YOU KNOW, DRAG DRAG QUEENS STORY HOURS ARE HARMFUL TO CHILDREN AND DRAG SHOWS IN GENERAL ARE HARMFUL. 00:24:47.028 --> 00:24:57.108 ALL OF THAT NARRATIVE WE HAVE TO COUNTERACT WITH OUR PERSONAL NARRATIVES BECAUSE IT'S A VERY COORDINATED ATTACK FROM THE FAR RIGHT AND VERY WELL FUNDED. 00:24:57.175 --> 00:25:03.348 AND I FEEL THAT WE'VE GOT TO OVERCOME THAT BY THE THOUSANDS AND MILLIONS OF LEGITIMATE STORIES. 00:25:03.415 --> 00:25:09.230 AND I, I THINK YOUR BILLIE JEAN KING ONE IT'S SO FUNNY BECAUSE I JUST FINISHED WATCHING YESTERDAY WITH THE MEN'S FINAL. 00:25:09.296 --> 00:25:10.640 YOU'RE 100% RIGHT. 00:25:10.705 --> 00:25:13.700 THE OTHER THING IS HER WIFE IS ALWAYS SITTING RIGHT BESIDE HER. 00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:23.328 UM, SHE'S SHE'S NOT WALKING AROUND WEARING BIG T SHIRTS AND CARRYING A PRIDE FLAG EVERYWHERE SHE GOES, BUT SHE IS LIVING HER AUTHENTIC LIFE. 00:25:23.395 --> 00:25:27.380 AND TO ME, THAT IS WHAT WE ALL HAVE TO DO. 00:25:27.445 --> 00:25:29.058 I MEAN, THAT'S HONESTLY WHY I WROTE THE BOOK. 00:25:29.125 --> 00:25:30.528 AND AGAIN, I'M NOT CAVALIER. 00:25:30.596 --> 00:25:34.940 I KNOW NOT EVERYONE CAN DO IT, BUT I WANT TO TRY TO CREATE ENVIRONMENTS WHERE PEOPLE CAN. 00:25:35.210 --> 00:25:35.930 WELL. 00:25:35.996 --> 00:25:38.598 AND JIM, IT MAKES IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE. 00:25:38.665 --> 00:25:44.088 I KNOW THE INSIGHTS YOU'RE SHARING TODAY ARE GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE AND PEOPLE ARE GOING TO PICK UP. 00:25:44.155 --> 00:25:47.690 AND I KNOW THAT FOLKS ENGAGING IN YOUR BOOK WILL AS WELL. 00:25:47.756 --> 00:25:58.818 BUT ONE THING THAT I THINK WOULD BE REALLY INTERESTING, MY LAST QUESTION FOR YOU FOR FOR LISTENERS WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, WHO'S INSPIRED YOU ALONG THE WAY. 00:25:58.885 --> 00:26:04.098 YOU KNOW, WE TALK ABOUT SETTING EXAMPLES AND TAKING TAKING THE RISK AND DOING THIS OURSELVES. 00:26:04.165 --> 00:26:18.318 BUT I'D LOVE FOR YOU TO IMAGINE YOU'RE HOSTING A LITTLE DINNER PARTY, A LITTLE CLOUT FOR GOOD DINNER PARTY, WHO ARE A FEW QUEER ICONS THAT HAVE INSPIRED YOU ALONG THE WAY, AND WHY DID THEY MAKE AN IMPACT ON YOU? 00:26:19.098 --> 00:26:22.278 YEAH, I LOVE I LOVE THIS QUESTION. 00:26:22.346 --> 00:26:27.920 UM, I MEAN, I THINK IT WOULD BE A REALLY INTERESTING DINNER PARTY. 00:26:27.986 --> 00:26:34.490 LET'S JUST SAY THAT, UM, I, I OKAY, I'LL TRY AND THINK OF THREE, BUT LARRY KRAMER. 00:26:34.556 --> 00:26:36.048 LARRY KRAMER, FOR SURE. 00:26:36.115 --> 00:26:42.528 I THINK AS A CHILD, YOU KNOW, AS A GAY MAN WHO CAME OUT DURING THE AIDS CRISIS AND WE NEVER CAN FORGET THAT. 00:26:42.596 --> 00:26:45.348 AND BY THE WAY, WE STILL HAVE HIV AND AIDS IN OUR COMMUNITY. 00:26:45.415 --> 00:27:01.940 BUT THE 70S AND 80S AND WHAT WE WENT THROUGH AND WHAT LARRY DID FOR THE COMMUNITY BY BEING SO VOCAL AND SO PASSIONATE AND SO CONTROVERSIAL, BUT CONTROVERSIAL FOR ALL THE RIGHT REASONS, I THINK WE STAND ON HIS SHOULDERS. 00:27:02.538 --> 00:27:07.098 I HAVE A PERSON IN MY LIFE WHO'S ON THE FOUNDATION BOARD WITH ME AT INDIANA UNIVERSITY. 00:27:07.165 --> 00:27:32.000 DAVID JACOBS, WHO IS DONATED THE FUNDS FOR THE JACOBS SCHOOL OF MUSIC AND UNIVERSITY, WAS REALLY THE FIRST OUT GAY MAN ON THE FOUNDATION BOARD OF DIRECTORS WHO HAS PAVED THE WAY FOR MANY OF US IN OUR COMMUNITY AND INDIANA UNIVERSITY TO BE FULLY SAFE AND ACKNOWLEDGED IN THOSE RANKS OF DONORS AND PHILANTHROPISTS. 00:27:32.598 --> 00:27:41.690 AND IT'S IT'S FUNNY THAT YOU BROUGHT HER UP, BUT I WAS GOING TO BRING UP BILLIE JEAN KING TODAY BECAUSE IN A WEIRD WAY THAT, YOU KNOW, I OFTEN TELL. 00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:44.970 THE STORY OF WOMEN'S RIGHTS AND QUEER RIGHTS AND BLACK RIGHTS GO TOGETHER. 00:27:45.036 --> 00:27:45.536 RIGHT? 00:27:45.603 --> 00:27:51.440 AND HER FIGHT, WHICH STARTED AS FIGHT FOR EQUAL PAY AND EQUAL REPRESENTATION FOR WOMEN. 00:27:51.506 --> 00:27:55.980 SHE THEN QUICKLY MOVED ON TO EQUAL REPRESENTATION FOR THE QUEER COMMUNITY. 00:27:56.046 --> 00:28:08.038 BUT IT STARTED WITH HER WORK ON EQUAL REPRESENTATION AND RIGHTS FOR WOMEN AND THINK SO MANY OF THE PATHS TO CIVIL RIGHTS AND RECOGNITION ARE VERY SIMILAR FOR ALL MARGINALIZED COMMUNITIES. 00:28:08.105 --> 00:28:20.730 AND THINK BILLIE JEAN IS SUCH A GREAT LIVING EXAMPLE OF THAT AND AND WHAT SHE'S DONE FOR WOMEN IN SPORTS IN GENERAL, BUT THEN WHAT SHE DID FOR THE QUEER COMMUNITY AS WELL. 00:28:21.338 --> 00:28:25.558 UM, I THINK THAT WOULD BE A REALLY FUN DINNER PARTY. 00:28:25.670 --> 00:28:27.660 I THINK IT WOULD BE AN AMAZING DINNER PARTY. 00:28:27.778 --> 00:28:28.278 LOVE IT. 00:28:28.348 --> 00:28:29.160 YEAH, THINK. 00:28:29.250 --> 00:28:29.750 THINK. 00:28:29.816 --> 00:28:33.380 YOU KNOW, AND THE OTHER THE OTHER PERSON IN THAT VEIN WHO'S TALKING ABOUT YOUR ALLYSHIP. 00:28:33.445 --> 00:28:34.230 AND I TALKED ABOUT HER. 00:28:34.296 --> 00:28:35.910 I WAS WITH SOME STUDENTS LAST WEEK. 00:28:35.976 --> 00:28:49.950 RUTH BADER GINSBURG LIKE RBG, I WISH I WOULD HAVE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO SIT AND TALK WITH THAT WOMAN BECAUSE, AGAIN, THE WORK SHE DID FOR WOMEN'S RIGHTS, SHE WAS ACTUALLY DOING WORK FOR ALL MARGINALIZED COMMUNITIES. 00:28:50.016 --> 00:28:58.920 AND WHEN YOU GO BACK AND WATCH THE DOCUMENTARY AND WATCH IT AS A GAY MAN, YOU REALIZE HOW MUCH WE OWE TO THAT WOMAN AS WELL. 00:28:59.220 --> 00:29:04.890 UM, HER JUST INTELLIGENCE AND QUIET STRENGTH AND AND TENACITY. 00:29:04.955 --> 00:29:08.818 SHE, TO ME, IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF PERSISTENCE AND TENACITY. 00:29:08.970 --> 00:29:11.759 WISH WOULD I WISH I WOULD HAVE HAD A RIGHT WAY TO MEET HER? 00:29:11.826 --> 00:29:13.558 YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. 00:29:13.625 --> 00:29:14.125 THAT'S. 00:29:14.192 --> 00:29:14.692 THAT'S GREAT. 00:29:14.759 --> 00:29:15.259 WELL, THANK YOU. 00:29:15.326 --> 00:29:18.088 AND, YOU KNOW, JIM, THANKS FOR JOINING ME TODAY. 00:29:18.155 --> 00:29:22.078 THANKS FOR THANKS FOR YOUR LISTEN, IT'S VULNERABILITY. 00:29:22.145 --> 00:29:23.220 IT'S HONESTY. 00:29:23.286 --> 00:29:25.740 IT'S REAL PRACTICAL ADVICE. 00:29:25.806 --> 00:29:27.180 SO I REALLY APPRECIATE IT. 00:29:27.246 --> 00:29:30.778 AND CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR BOOK, ALL PRIDE, NO EGO. 00:29:30.846 --> 00:29:40.798 AND FOR THOSE LISTENERS WHO WANT TO GET A COPY OF THE BOOK, VISIT AMAZON, BARNES AND NOBLE SHOP, QUEER OR WHEREVER YOU BUY YOUR BOOKS AND BE ON THE LOOKOUT, GO TO JIM'S SITE. 00:29:40.865 --> 00:29:42.538 ALL PRIDE, NO EGO. 00:29:42.605 --> 00:29:43.680 HE'S ON A BOOK TOUR. 00:29:43.746 --> 00:29:48.180 HE MAY BE STOPPING TO A CITY NEAR YOU AND TO MY LISTENERS. 00:29:48.246 --> 00:29:49.680 THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING TODAY. 00:29:49.746 --> 00:29:53.880 PLEASE TUNE IN EVERY OTHER WEEK ON WEDNESDAYS FOR A NEW EPISODE. 00:29:53.945 --> 00:29:56.368 FOLLOW US ON SOCIAL AND VISIT CLOUD FOR GOOD. 00:29:56.970 --> 00:29:58.920 TO SUBSCRIBE TO OUR NEWSLETTER. 00:29:58.986 --> 00:30:05.250 I HOPE THIS EPISODE GIVES YOU THE MOTIVATION TO USE YOUR CLOUT FOR GOOD AND TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. 00:30:05.368 --> 00:30:05.880 THANK YOU.