WEBVTT 00:00:00.059 --> 00:00:11.429 The vast majority of straight people that I've worked with, overwhelming majority of straight people I've worked with are very accepting and welcoming and not at all kind of bigoted. 00:00:11.939 --> 00:00:18.510 Um, but we all say stupid things that may be insensitive to people, and that certainly happened to me. 00:00:18.576 --> 00:00:23.399 And it just causes you to pause and just feel uncomfortable for a moment. 00:00:23.489 --> 00:00:24.359 But you know what? 00:00:24.425 --> 00:00:27.989 We also have to just measure intent with action. 00:00:30.820 --> 00:00:32.079 Hello everyone, and welcome. 00:00:32.146 --> 00:00:41.590 Clout for Good is a bi weekly podcast that showcases personal and powerful conversations with prominent LGBTQ+ executives who are out in the workplace. 00:00:41.710 --> 00:00:51.969 The conversations are meant to create a supportive community to inspire LGBTQ+ people, their employers, and allies to build equity and inclusion in the workplace. 00:00:52.036 --> 00:00:54.609 Today, I'm honored to welcome Brad Jakeman. 00:00:54.676 --> 00:01:14.108 Brad is currently senior advisor at the Boston Consulting Group, one of the world's leading management consultancies, and Brad is a co-founder and managing partner of Rethink Food, which identifies, invests in and helps scale businesses that are digitally disrupting the legacy food system to make it more equitable and sustainable. 00:01:14.530 --> 00:01:28.780 Prior to co-founding Rethink Food, Brad spent almost ten years as president of PepsiCo's Global Beverage Group, where he led global corporate strategy, brand building, design, advertising, marketing innovation and branded content. 00:01:28.846 --> 00:01:36.010 Brad has also held senior marketing roles at Ogilvy City, Macy's, and Activision Blizzard. 00:01:37.019 --> 00:01:46.650 He also gives his time to other organizations, including the Humane Society, the New York LGBT Center, and a variety of for profit and nonprofit organizations. 00:01:46.715 --> 00:01:48.120 Brad, welcome to the show. 00:01:48.420 --> 00:01:50.099 Hey, David, it's great to be here. 00:01:50.165 --> 00:01:51.569 Thank you for having me. 00:01:51.635 --> 00:01:52.135 Yeah. 00:01:52.203 --> 00:01:52.703 Of course. 00:01:52.769 --> 00:01:53.640 Great to have you here. 00:01:53.706 --> 00:01:55.290 Well, let's let's jump in. 00:01:55.355 --> 00:02:08.340 The first thing, um, that that I talk about with guests of Clout for good is tell me a little bit about how you identify, share a little bit with us, if you can, about um, maybe your coming out. 00:02:08.406 --> 00:02:17.848 Or as we know, it's often not just one coming out story or maybe some of your experiences coming out, um, throughout your career and sort of what those were like for you. 00:02:18.780 --> 00:02:19.318 Um, yeah. 00:02:19.385 --> 00:02:36.090 So I identify I'm a cisgender, um, gay man, and I, uh, look, I would love to say, uh, or I'd love to have some sort of interesting story about my coming out in a professional context. 00:02:36.508 --> 00:02:41.188 Um, but unfortunately, there wasn't one in terms of. 00:02:41.256 --> 00:02:44.098 I think it somewhat happened organically. 00:02:44.188 --> 00:02:53.550 Um, I never had a, uh, kind of a mic drop moment where I stood before people and announced that I was gay. 00:02:53.616 --> 00:03:05.729 And that's largely because, um, I think while how I identify as obviously an important part of who I am, it is nowhere near my defining characteristic. 00:03:05.795 --> 00:03:20.729 And so in a professional context, it didn't feel to me, um, and to one event, which I'm happy to talk about later, that, uh, that I really needed to make any sort of proclamation or announcement. 00:03:20.795 --> 00:03:41.340 I didn't I was fortunate enough to work in great companies with, uh, great bosses and amazing colleagues, and I never felt there would be a fear for me expressing who I was so I didn't have to, unlike many people, have to hide my identity. 00:03:41.848 --> 00:03:49.710 But nor did I have, um, any compelling reason to really announce it to the world. 00:03:49.979 --> 00:03:50.479 Um. 00:03:50.878 --> 00:03:51.990 Well, that's it's great. 00:03:52.056 --> 00:03:55.650 I know a lot of people, you know, don't feel that way. 00:03:55.716 --> 00:03:57.780 A lot of people have had a tough time in the workplace. 00:03:57.846 --> 00:04:08.340 And one thing I'm interested in, you know, with your background and, and as I mentioned, you know, coming out is an ongoing experience. 00:04:08.406 --> 00:04:10.770 And maybe to your point, isn't a mic drop moment. 00:04:10.836 --> 00:04:16.709 But there's often times where, you know, maybe we're making decisions of what to share and what not to share. 00:04:16.776 --> 00:04:21.209 I know that McKinsey has a report out that says, you know, LGBTQ. 00:04:21.276 --> 00:04:27.209 Plus, people are often talking about something related to their authentic self sort of once a week in the workplace. 00:04:27.276 --> 00:04:50.970 So it's something ongoing, but with your background, which I think is, you know, one is so impressive, but it's amazing with your, your board experience for for profit and nonprofit and the agency experiences, you've had the corporate with some of the the biggest brands in the world, how has navigating that as an out executive been? 00:04:51.036 --> 00:04:56.910 Have there been any differences or was in fact across all of those, you know, the experience similar? 00:04:56.975 --> 00:05:06.028 How how has navigating those or what challenges or, you know, opportunities have come up that vary across all of those experiences? 00:05:06.449 --> 00:05:28.528 Look, I think the challenge that, uh, we unfortunately, as a business community face today with, uh, the majority of leadership teams in large companies and even small and medium sized companies, boards, certainly of companies, is a diversity issue at large. 00:05:28.596 --> 00:05:47.519 So it's not unique to the LGBTQ community, although representation, for instance, on boards of directors and uh, CEO the CEO suite for sure is, uh, there's big gaps when it comes to LGBTQ. 00:05:47.586 --> 00:05:50.670 But I think the broader issue is one of diversity. 00:05:50.735 --> 00:06:24.990 And one of the things throughout my career that has always made me feel uncomfortable is when I'm in groups that are homogenous in the workplace, I find them to be groups that don't have a great proclivity to inspire new and breakthrough thinking, which is what most, uh, companies need right now because everybody has the same shared experience, the same educational background, often are of the same gender over, often are of the same sexual orientation. 00:06:25.055 --> 00:06:34.259 And I think that is an issue for the LGBTQ community as much as it is for any underrepresented, underrepresented groups. 00:06:34.769 --> 00:06:38.759 Um, black Americans, um, women. 00:06:38.826 --> 00:06:46.829 Still, the fact that we call 50% of our population a minority is, uh, a terrifying idea. 00:06:47.370 --> 00:06:54.750 Uh, but I think the issue is diversity at large, which, of course, impacts the LGBTQ community. 00:06:55.889 --> 00:06:57.149 It's such a good point. 00:06:57.216 --> 00:06:59.129 And, Brad, what do you think? 00:06:59.196 --> 00:07:05.129 You know, with having senior senior roles and and running an organization? 00:07:05.196 --> 00:07:09.269 And what do you think are some things that, you know, a lot of listeners have Clout for Good? 00:07:09.336 --> 00:07:19.410 Are are folks who identify as part of the queer community, or maybe they're allies, but a lot of folks are looking for ways that their company can make a difference. 00:07:19.475 --> 00:07:30.389 What are what are some things that you think companies can do to help with this, to help create a more equitable and inclusive and diverse, as you said, workplace. 00:07:30.569 --> 00:07:33.629 Look, I think representation is an important part. 00:07:33.838 --> 00:07:37.230 Um, and you mentioned a McKinsey study. 00:07:37.379 --> 00:07:47.040 Um, BCG actually did a significant piece of work amongst 2000 LGBTQ employees. 00:07:47.129 --> 00:07:52.199 Um, and actually 2000 straight employees across the U.S. 00:07:52.266 --> 00:08:09.838 and the, uh, the numbers were quite surprising because those of us who live in certain parts of the United States and work in certain companies tend to take a lot of the acceptance of LGBT, the LGBTQ community, for granted. 00:08:09.906 --> 00:08:21.899 But this study showed that 40% of LGBT employees are still closeted at work, and 26% are wish they they could be out. 00:08:22.410 --> 00:08:29.939 Um, 36% of those employees have lied or covered up part of their identities in the past year. 00:08:30.629 --> 00:08:38.970 Um, and of those who are out, 54% of them remain closeted to their clients and their customers. 00:08:39.035 --> 00:08:42.600 So we have a long way to go. 00:08:42.666 --> 00:09:02.879 And what I mentioned, uh, in answer to your first question, that I didn't really feel the need to proclaim my identity until, um, recently in the workforce, because it wasn't my defining characteristic, but I learned that it was important for me to do it for other people. 00:09:03.028 --> 00:09:20.788 And what I mean by that is, uh, when I was at PepsiCo, I was the executive sponsor of, um, the LGBTQ ERG, and I just, uh, was so shocked, actually. 00:09:20.855 --> 00:09:33.389 And it must it was probably my naivete and my privilege in having grown up in organizations that were, uh, very accepting of our community, as was PepsiCo. 00:09:33.456 --> 00:10:07.798 But the fact that somebody who was the president of Global Beverages at PepsiCo was also gay was such an inspiration to, uh, younger people in the organization that made it, uh, I felt more compelling for me to, I guess, be more articulate, um, more present at LGBTQ events, uh, more out in the workforce beyond which I ever felt compelled to do. 00:10:09.090 --> 00:10:11.788 And Brad, I it's I so appreciate you sharing that. 00:10:11.855 --> 00:10:13.798 I've had so many similar experiences. 00:10:13.865 --> 00:10:25.379 And quite frankly, as we talked, that's one of the reasons that I, I started Clout for Good was I really realized, you know, for me, you're like your example at PepsiCo. 00:10:25.446 --> 00:10:38.278 It's, you know, I was working for an organization where we had a call center in Oklahoma City, and I went there for an all hands meeting, a training meeting, and, you know, talked as who I was. 00:10:38.346 --> 00:10:43.740 And to your point, wasn't necessarily talking specifically about my gayness or anything like that. 00:10:43.806 --> 00:10:54.178 But I had several employees come up to me afterwards and say, you know, it's amazing that our one of our leaders is out and talks about and is confident it really. 00:10:54.389 --> 00:10:59.490 And one employee said, this really gives me hope that I can be myself at work. 00:10:59.556 --> 00:11:09.899 And I'm I also, you know, years into being out in the workplace, I sort of thought about National Coming Out Day and I thought, well, I'm not sure that's important anymore. 00:11:09.966 --> 00:11:12.840 And then I've really come to realize as you have, how important it is. 00:11:12.905 --> 00:11:21.658 And in fact, I'm going to be launching Cloud for Good on National Coming Out Day because, you know, I see also having experience with ERGs. 00:11:21.725 --> 00:11:23.940 You know, these organizations, they want community. 00:11:24.005 --> 00:11:25.139 They want connection. 00:11:25.206 --> 00:11:27.058 Your stat about board members. 00:11:27.125 --> 00:11:29.278 You know they're not necessarily seeing it. 00:11:29.346 --> 00:11:31.950 So you know sharing these stories is important. 00:11:32.015 --> 00:11:45.190 I know your story will be, um, inspiring and important to folks and I your BCG study, that these stats around still being closeted or not authentically, you know, being able to come out at work. 00:11:45.759 --> 00:11:47.379 What do you think are. 00:11:47.446 --> 00:11:52.058 You know, what are some of the reasons you think that that still exists today? 00:11:52.125 --> 00:12:00.820 Why do you think people, you know, you see sort of the changes in media and representation out there of queer people changing dramatically over the years? 00:12:00.885 --> 00:12:05.889 Why do you think those numbers in my mind, are still so high in the workplace? 00:12:05.980 --> 00:12:19.418 Well, I think that, um, so when we talk about representation, the term we often hear, the corporate term we often hear is, um, diversity and inclusion. 00:12:19.485 --> 00:12:30.879 And I think, um, we have focused more on the first half than we have on the second half in that I think we have made some progress. 00:12:30.946 --> 00:12:40.240 I think we need to make a lot more progress in creating diverse, um, employee bases, diverse leadership teams and diverse boards. 00:12:40.306 --> 00:12:51.820 We've certainly when I look at, uh, where we were ten years ago, we have certainly progressed on diversity, nowhere near where we need to be. 00:12:51.885 --> 00:12:54.490 But still we have moved. 00:12:54.668 --> 00:12:56.230 Um, we've moved forward. 00:12:56.296 --> 00:13:05.678 It's really the inclusion piece, I think, that we have not necessarily, um, put as much emphasis on. 00:13:05.745 --> 00:13:12.009 I mean, that that's the old saying is diversity is being invited to the prom. 00:13:12.158 --> 00:13:14.500 Uh, inclusion is being asked to dance. 00:13:14.566 --> 00:13:19.298 And so I think we just need to do a lot more work around that. 00:13:19.365 --> 00:13:41.259 And, look, I think also in the BCG study, um, it found that 75% of those who have been surveyed experienced some negative day to day kind of interactions that are relative to their identity, that could be determined or were classified as kind of microaggressions. 00:13:41.326 --> 00:13:56.168 These are little throwaway lines, uh, insensitivity, assumptions being made, um, that cause people not to feel included, to feel like they are other. 00:13:56.288 --> 00:14:01.808 And I think that's going to come with kind of raising awareness of it. 00:14:01.875 --> 00:14:08.860 The vast majority of, uh, and I felt some of those microaggressions through my career as, as well. 00:14:08.926 --> 00:14:17.620 But I even calling them microaggressions, I'm kind of hesitant to do because that kind of says there's some intent behind it. 00:14:17.686 --> 00:14:31.690 I think a lot of it is the vast majority of straight people that I've worked with, overwhelming majority of straight people I've worked with are very accepting and welcoming and not at all kind of bigoted. 00:14:32.139 --> 00:14:38.710 Um, but we also stupid things that may be insensitive to people and that certainly happened to me. 00:14:38.775 --> 00:14:43.658 And it just causes you to pause and just feel uncomfortable for a moment. 00:14:43.725 --> 00:14:44.558 But you know what? 00:14:44.625 --> 00:14:49.570 I also look, I'm a little bit old school in this too. 00:14:49.635 --> 00:14:54.190 I think it's also up to us as a community. 00:14:54.255 --> 00:14:59.830 I mean, in in any professional context, you've got to have thick skin about a lot of things. 00:14:59.895 --> 00:15:10.778 And while I'm not obviously saying that these microaggressions are good things, but we also have to just measure intent with action as well. 00:15:10.846 --> 00:15:20.019 And, um, perhaps we could do we could educate some of our allies, um, a little more. 00:15:20.086 --> 00:15:25.720 Not again, not that it's up to us to do all the heavy lifting to get accepted into workplaces. 00:15:25.785 --> 00:15:35.830 I think companies can do a lot better in terms of sensitivity training, um, particularly around the LGBTQ community. 00:15:35.895 --> 00:15:38.110 But we also just can't. 00:15:39.139 --> 00:15:40.580 Can't a little bit. 00:15:40.908 --> 00:15:43.070 Kind of take this on board too much. 00:15:43.428 --> 00:15:43.928 Yeah. 00:15:43.995 --> 00:15:44.495 Um. 00:15:44.562 --> 00:15:46.399 And assume malicious intent. 00:15:46.668 --> 00:15:47.269 Yeah. 00:15:47.336 --> 00:15:50.178 And I think that's the, you know, everyone's on their own journey, right? 00:15:50.245 --> 00:15:51.440 We need to meet people where they are. 00:15:51.505 --> 00:15:52.940 I think that's really, really valid. 00:15:53.005 --> 00:15:53.870 And I think you're right. 00:15:53.936 --> 00:16:02.058 It's, you know, more education and more training and and I like that, you know, not really assuming this malicious intent right off the bat, I think is important. 00:16:02.125 --> 00:16:13.158 And I think as folks, you know, one thing I'd love to, to understand your perspective on is, you know, you have a younger queer professional who's, you know, new to the workforce. 00:16:13.225 --> 00:16:19.100 And often they're thinking, I want to show that, that I'm valuable, I want to get that next promotion. 00:16:19.166 --> 00:16:25.100 Or you have, um, potentially a more closeted, maybe tenured queer employee. 00:16:25.166 --> 00:16:36.918 But, you know, what advice do you have to, you know, maybe either of those types of employees, how might they start to show up more authentically? 00:16:36.985 --> 00:16:41.778 What what advice do you have for folks that are thinking about I'd like to tell more about myself. 00:16:41.846 --> 00:16:50.480 I'd like to, you know, I actually brought it's funny because after some of these conversations, I'll have out in, you know, the industry or at marketing forums, etc. 00:16:50.546 --> 00:17:04.308 , some employees will still and queer identified employees will come up to me and say, so wow, on Monday with your in your C-suite meeting, you really talk about what you and your partner did over the weekend. 00:17:04.375 --> 00:17:09.558 And I it's that question still comes to me and I get taken a little bit aback by it. 00:17:09.625 --> 00:17:15.528 And I think, you know, wow, that was maybe a question I had when I came out close to 25 years ago. 00:17:15.596 --> 00:17:23.420 And we still, you know, there's still that question of how do I show up and what how what risk do I take and what does that look like? 00:17:23.486 --> 00:17:29.480 So what advice do you have for folks that are thinking about sharing more about themselves in the workplace? 00:17:31.278 --> 00:17:36.470 Oh, look, I think, um, you do what makes you happy. 00:17:36.588 --> 00:17:54.230 I mean, seriously, I as I said earlier, I was fortunate in that I didn't ever feel that there were major barriers to me kind of showing up authentically or talking about, um. 00:17:55.338 --> 00:17:58.009 Uh, the fact that I was gay. 00:17:58.578 --> 00:18:00.740 Um, but that's because I didn't. 00:18:00.806 --> 00:18:05.269 As I said earlier, I didn't feel any compelling desire to do so. 00:18:05.336 --> 00:18:09.588 I mean, I, um, but I recognize that some people might. 00:18:09.655 --> 00:18:27.410 And I think that, um, you the if if you're really compelled, uh, to do that and you feel that it's such an important part of who you are, and I'm a big advocate of bringing your whole self to work. 00:18:28.009 --> 00:18:33.710 Um, if if, if you really need to do that, I think you have to. 00:18:33.776 --> 00:18:41.900 And if you have some negative blowback on that, depending on who it's from. 00:18:41.965 --> 00:18:47.390 I mean, if it's from an if it's from co-workers and so on, have a conversation with them. 00:18:47.750 --> 00:18:50.990 Um, if it's from your boss, that's a, that's a different issue. 00:18:51.140 --> 00:18:53.269 Um, you may have to take that up. 00:18:53.778 --> 00:18:59.298 Um, with HR, all of these things, by the way, scary things to do. 00:18:59.365 --> 00:19:07.098 And so I completely represent a completely understand that my experience is different than many people's experience. 00:19:07.165 --> 00:19:17.990 And that kind of raising your hand and going to H.R., um, to talk about this is something that's very daunting, particularly if you are younger in your career. 00:19:18.056 --> 00:19:28.730 But look, at the end of the day, if you're if you don't do that, then unfortunately, I think, um, that isn't the company for you. 00:19:29.240 --> 00:19:33.048 Uh, and that's a really sad reality. 00:19:33.115 --> 00:19:36.348 But I don't know what else to say. 00:19:36.415 --> 00:19:52.730 I'm really sensitive, David, to making sure that we, uh, don't present ourselves as victims, that everybody else has to help us, um, do what we want to do. 00:19:52.796 --> 00:19:55.278 I think there absolutely has to be. 00:19:56.528 --> 00:20:04.660 Infrastructure, culture, policy to help us, but we also have to move things forward ourselves. 00:20:04.726 --> 00:20:26.858 And if we don't have the conversations that are productive and come from a very good place, um, with certainly with colleagues, um, I your boss is is a separate issue and a more daunting one, but unless we kind of raise these issues ourselves, nobody else is going to be made aware of them. 00:20:26.925 --> 00:20:29.019 Nobody else is going to be aware of the problem. 00:20:29.086 --> 00:20:40.269 It's not like some suddenly one day, everybody in corporate America is suddenly going to become a lot more sensitive to the issue or to issues facing minorities. 00:20:40.336 --> 00:20:53.078 We're all on a journey to be educated about, um, different people in our workplace, in our friends circle, in our communities, and how we should interact with them. 00:20:53.145 --> 00:21:02.019 And we won't know unless we, as members of the LGBTQ community, don't raise our hands and say, hey, what? 00:21:02.086 --> 00:21:03.970 You kind of said that felt like weird to me. 00:21:04.036 --> 00:21:10.568 I know you probably didn't mean it that way, but I kind of interpreted it that way, and it was just kind of weird to me. 00:21:11.558 --> 00:21:17.588 80% of the time, you're probably going to get the response of, wow, I'm so sorry. 00:21:17.655 --> 00:21:20.318 That was that was insensitive of me. 00:21:20.385 --> 00:21:24.665 I didn't obviously that was not my intent and so on and so forth. 00:21:24.732 --> 00:21:27.548 But we do have to take charge of our own destiny. 00:21:27.615 --> 00:21:38.440 This community has for decades, unfortunately, had to have, um, an activist focus all the way back to, um, Stonewall. 00:21:38.506 --> 00:21:48.098 So let's just continue moving that forward and educating the people around us and, um, assuming positive intent. 00:21:48.788 --> 00:21:55.118 Um, obviously, where there isn't positive intent, that's a separate issue that needs to be dealt with in a different way. 00:21:55.185 --> 00:22:06.338 But unless we're raising the issue, nobody's going to miraculously wake up one day and become very sensitive to how words and actions that are unintended could impact us. 00:22:07.088 --> 00:22:16.028 I think that, you know, I think that's it's such good advice, and I think that over the years I have and you're right, I think it's very scary. 00:22:16.096 --> 00:22:19.000 It is taking a stand to have a conversation. 00:22:19.066 --> 00:22:33.220 But I think I feel like I've been able to, in my career, make the most progress with those one on one conversations, to your point, which is such great advice of not assuming this ill intent and just going in and saying, I'd like to talk about this. 00:22:33.286 --> 00:22:42.788 And often people aren't aware or didn't know or and I find the same, you know, often with HR leaders, you know, let's let's raise this issue. 00:22:42.855 --> 00:22:43.900 Let's talk about it. 00:22:43.965 --> 00:22:44.798 What could we do? 00:22:44.865 --> 00:22:51.910 And I find to your point, as you said, 80%, 80% of the time these things turn into something really positive. 00:22:51.976 --> 00:22:53.528 So I think it's great advice. 00:22:53.596 --> 00:22:56.078 Um, and, Brad, you know, if I. 00:22:56.145 --> 00:22:58.838 Turn into a conflict, like, I don't think. 00:22:59.048 --> 00:22:59.558 Yeah. 00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:04.118 I don't think they need to turn into a conflict, I think. 00:23:04.568 --> 00:23:06.368 Um, I think. 00:23:07.009 --> 00:23:20.690 And maybe this is my generation showing where we have had to, uh, kind of fight for the rights that we as an LGBT community enjoy today. 00:23:21.170 --> 00:23:26.000 Rights that are not certainly not cast in stone. 00:23:26.066 --> 00:23:32.630 And as we've seen with issues like reproductive rights for women could vanish overnight. 00:23:32.695 --> 00:23:35.598 But we have fought hard for for rights. 00:23:35.665 --> 00:23:41.450 And so I guess probably my generation has more of that activist mentality. 00:23:41.516 --> 00:23:51.588 But I recall kind of being at PepsiCo when I was leading the BRG and we were having a dinner with this group, and a very young person in the team said, oh my God, I'm so upset. 00:23:52.098 --> 00:23:55.400 Um, I'm like, something really bad happened to me. 00:23:55.465 --> 00:23:56.180 And I'm like, what? 00:23:56.246 --> 00:23:57.200 What happened? 00:23:57.288 --> 00:24:10.430 And, um, it was something to do with, uh, he was talking about his kids to a straight person and that he didn't know very well. 00:24:10.496 --> 00:24:13.038 And that straight person didn't know him very well. 00:24:13.105 --> 00:24:18.769 And the straight person assumed he had a wife and said, oh, what is your wife do or something? 00:24:18.836 --> 00:24:25.160 And he was like, so offended by that, that my counsel to him as well, what did you say? 00:24:25.226 --> 00:24:27.618 And he said, well, I didn't say anything. 00:24:27.685 --> 00:24:29.180 I was just like so offended. 00:24:29.246 --> 00:24:31.460 And I never kind of really want to talk to him again. 00:24:31.526 --> 00:24:32.660 I'm like, well, you know what? 00:24:32.726 --> 00:24:36.200 I don't know that that's the right course of action you could have. 00:24:36.769 --> 00:24:41.150 Uh, that was a moment to educate, and I. 00:24:41.215 --> 00:24:45.016 I know that person, by the way, who said that to you? 00:24:45.083 --> 00:24:49.068 And that person has demonstrated themselves to be an ally. 00:24:49.135 --> 00:24:52.338 They obviously didn't know you were gay. 00:24:52.405 --> 00:24:54.588 And I'm sure if you have said something. 00:24:54.655 --> 00:25:05.930 So I think we have to just make sure that when things like this happen, we don't spiral into like this person's terrible and sensitive and so on. 00:25:05.996 --> 00:25:26.028 I'm sure we all say things to people that we don't know very well who are not members of whatever subsection of the community we belong to that may become insensitive or may be interpreted and be interpreted insensitively. 00:25:26.096 --> 00:25:32.118 And so we just have to talk more, I think, and assume positive intent. 00:25:32.328 --> 00:25:34.009 I think that's great advice. 00:25:34.076 --> 00:25:36.108 I, you know, and a few more, um. 00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:38.368 Questions. 00:25:38.490 --> 00:25:39.930 Brad one. 00:25:39.996 --> 00:26:02.880 Given so much experience that you bring to the table and and with so many different organizations and being such an active part of the community, one thing that I ask everyone who comes on the show is to share, um, some resources that listeners might find helpful, um, whether it's navigating their outlets or their workplace challenges or whatever. 00:26:02.945 --> 00:26:10.200 Do you have any resources that you might share with folks that you think are helpful and valuable as you've maybe utilized along your journey? 00:26:10.798 --> 00:26:11.519 Uh, no. 00:26:11.586 --> 00:26:27.480 I as I said, um, earlier, I have been very lucky that, um, through my professional career, I haven't really bumped into this as a major stumbling block. 00:26:27.598 --> 00:26:34.500 Um, and I consider myself particularly in light of the statistics that I gave you earlier around the BCG work. 00:26:34.566 --> 00:26:42.210 I found myself incredibly fortunate, um, to have experienced and recognize that isn't the experience of the majority. 00:26:42.390 --> 00:26:44.368 Um, at least if you look at the numbers. 00:26:44.818 --> 00:26:48.868 Uh, so I haven't had to kind of tap into a lot of resources. 00:26:48.935 --> 00:27:05.250 Um, I will tell you that, um, fellow members of our community who you work with are always great sounding boards for advice or even just to vent at. 00:27:05.788 --> 00:27:13.710 Um, and so I think that's certainly so Employee Resource Groups in companies where they exist, for sure. 00:27:13.776 --> 00:27:25.470 You should, um, join them and be part of those and you will find, I think, a lot of, uh, help and inspiration there. 00:27:25.828 --> 00:27:28.618 Uh, there are other organizations you mentioned earlier. 00:27:28.685 --> 00:27:34.230 Until recently, I was the Chairman of the Board of the LGBTQ Center here in New York. 00:27:34.769 --> 00:27:43.078 Um, we have a lot of programs, uh, that you can tap into and resources that you can tap into. 00:27:43.558 --> 00:28:05.759 Um, I would talk, um, candidly, uh, whenever you have an opportunity with allies in organizations, David, I remember, uh, and this isn't an example of, um, a direct example of LGBTQ support in the workplace, but it's a great analog and a great example. 00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:32.608 I once worked with, um, this incredibly impressive woman who was my peer in a leadership team that was predominantly male with a boss that she came to me, um, at some point and says it drives me nuts being in these meetings because he's either mansplaining at me or he cuts me off for talks over me and so on and so forth, and it's super frustrating. 00:28:32.675 --> 00:28:50.130 And so I just made it a point of whenever we were in a room, having been sensitized to that behavior, I would just make a point of jumping in and going, hey, um, let's just take a moment and let her finish her sentence, or let's just take a moment and reflect on that. 00:28:50.195 --> 00:28:52.769 And wait, wasn't that what she just said? 00:28:52.890 --> 00:29:04.230 And there are ways that you can act as an ally to, um, kind of underrepresented groups that are supportive to them. 00:29:04.296 --> 00:29:21.900 And I think that for us, while I've certainly advocated that we need to do our part in saying, vocalizing to colleagues when these quote unquote microaggressions happen that, hey, this there's probably a better way that you could have said that or that made me feel kind of weird. 00:29:22.470 --> 00:29:41.880 Um, equally, you can find allies in, uh, friends and allies in the workplace who will also help you navigate awkward situations and help educate the broader, um, colleagues base around some of these issues. 00:29:41.945 --> 00:29:57.240 So I think if if you're in that situation, um, do what you can to help yourself where that isn't possible, then you need to have a conversation with, um, kind of people who can. 00:29:58.358 --> 00:30:00.700 Might make a more direct impact. 00:30:00.766 --> 00:30:01.778 Like HR. 00:30:02.048 --> 00:30:03.759 Yeah, I love it, I love it. 00:30:03.826 --> 00:30:04.509 That's great. 00:30:04.660 --> 00:30:07.000 So one one final question, Brad. 00:30:07.066 --> 00:30:16.180 I you know, folks that are listening often are listening to hear these stories and to understand maybe tips and understand experiences. 00:30:16.246 --> 00:30:23.410 But, you know, along the way, I have to imagine, um, that folks have inspired inspired you. 00:30:23.476 --> 00:30:38.170 So my last question question is imagine you were hosting a Klout for Good dinner party, and you are going to invite 2 or 3 queer icons to this dinner party that have inspired you. 00:30:38.236 --> 00:30:44.710 Who are some folks from within our community, um, that have that have made an impact on you along the way? 00:30:45.400 --> 00:30:46.150 Wow, who. 00:30:46.215 --> 00:30:48.910 Would I invite to a dinner party that's inspired me? 00:30:48.976 --> 00:30:51.460 Um, certainly. 00:30:51.578 --> 00:31:01.838 Um, Secretary Buttigieg, I think he is an absolute inspiration to, um, our community. 00:31:02.170 --> 00:31:07.630 Um, he is he has served in uniform for our country. 00:31:07.695 --> 00:31:14.500 He has served in local politics, um, and now as secretary of transportation. 00:31:14.980 --> 00:31:23.680 Um, he represents one of the most senior officials, uh, that is gay in the administration. 00:31:23.746 --> 00:31:41.828 And I think that what is remarkable, not remarkable, what makes him so incredibly inspirational to me is that he is so incredibly smart and does his job so incredibly well. 00:31:42.130 --> 00:31:52.538 He doesn't hide the his identity as a gay male, but nor does he put it front and center in every single conversation that he has. 00:31:52.605 --> 00:31:55.000 He lives very authentically. 00:31:55.088 --> 00:32:00.430 And um, I think he, for those reasons, is an inspiration. 00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:29.618 Um, the other two, uh, people are actually women, which as I was thinking about this, I'm like, well, if if we as, uh, white, cisgendered gay men think we have an issue, imagine if you had the double whammy of being a part of another group in the community that, uh, faces diversity and inclusion, um, issues. 00:32:29.685 --> 00:32:30.368 And that's women. 00:32:30.435 --> 00:32:35.470 So the other two people would be Beth Ford, who is the CEO of Land O'Lakes. 00:32:35.536 --> 00:32:41.288 And, um, again, Beth is just an incredible business person. 00:32:41.470 --> 00:32:47.348 Um, so incredibly, um, so incredibly articulate. 00:32:47.828 --> 00:32:56.230 Um, but again, uh, she also happens to be gay, uh, a mother. 00:32:56.890 --> 00:33:08.769 Um, and so I just and again, she is not a prominent person because she happens to be a gay woman leading a large company. 00:33:08.980 --> 00:33:12.460 She's just an incredible CEO who happens to be gay. 00:33:12.526 --> 00:33:15.430 And I think there's a distinction there. 00:33:15.496 --> 00:33:35.769 And the other one, um, that I wish I had have spent more time with before she passed away was Edie Windsor, who did so much for our community, was so incredibly brave in, um, advocating for our community all the way up to the Supreme Court. 00:33:36.278 --> 00:33:46.298 And I think she would bring, um, and I had the honor of meeting her several times before she passed. 00:33:46.365 --> 00:34:05.740 Uh, and she brings a very different lens to this, because she operated in a world that was nowhere near as accepting as it is today, with a advocating for community that had none of the rights that we enjoy today. 00:34:05.806 --> 00:34:10.929 And, uh, I think she would be an impressive person to add to the mix. 00:34:11.469 --> 00:34:13.150 A great mix of folks. 00:34:13.215 --> 00:34:14.679 I want an invite, I love it. 00:34:14.746 --> 00:34:16.300 Those are those are those are great. 00:34:16.365 --> 00:34:17.139 You're welcome. 00:34:17.206 --> 00:34:17.949 Anytime. 00:34:18.250 --> 00:34:23.199 Uh, well, Brad, listen, thank you so much for coming to to the to the show today. 00:34:23.266 --> 00:34:29.860 I really appreciate, um, your, you sharing of these experiences and your advice along the way. 00:34:29.925 --> 00:34:33.940 And, uh, and for all the work you do for the community every day. 00:34:34.005 --> 00:34:34.659 So thank you. 00:34:34.726 --> 00:34:36.219 Thank you so much for joining. 00:34:36.518 --> 00:34:37.239 Thanks, David. 00:34:37.306 --> 00:34:38.530 It was a pleasure to be here. 00:34:38.596 --> 00:34:40.059 Have a great rest of your week. 00:34:40.126 --> 00:34:40.626 Yeah. 00:34:40.693 --> 00:34:41.193 Thank you. 00:34:41.259 --> 00:34:43.869 And and to my listeners, thanks so much for joining us today. 00:34:43.936 --> 00:34:48.309 Tune in every other week on Wednesdays for a new episode of Clout for good. 00:34:48.376 --> 00:34:49.900 Follow us on social. 00:34:49.965 --> 00:35:00.530 Visit Clout for Good dotCom to subscribe to our newsletter, and I hope this episode gives you the motivation to use your own Clout for Good to make a difference in your workplace. 00:35:00.596 --> 00:35:01.429 Thanks for joining.