WEBVTT 00:00:00.205 --> 00:00:06.346 I don't think you can be effective in life without being your whole self and who you are. 00:00:06.346 --> 00:00:17.826 And you're going to be handicapped whatever you're doing, whether it is athletics, whether it's communications, whether it's politics, whether it's law, finance, whatever you're doing, if you can't be yourself, right? 00:00:17.826 --> 00:00:19.806 There's a part of you that's not out there. 00:00:19.806 --> 00:00:24.065 You're always going to be partly worried about being found out. 00:00:24.306 --> 00:00:27.826 I think it takes away from your career in big ways. 00:00:32.718 --> 00:00:34.037 Hello everyone and welcome. 00:00:34.037 --> 00:00:44.357 Clop for Good is a bi -weekly podcast that showcases personal and powerful conversations with prominent LGBTQ plus executives who are out in the workplace. 00:00:44.357 --> 00:00:54.798 The conversations are meant to create a supportive community and inspire LGBTQ plus people, their employers and allies to build equity and inclusion in the workplace. 00:00:55.018 --> 00:00:59.478 Today, I'm honored to welcome Brian Elner to the podcast. 00:00:59.478 --> 00:01:02.573 Brian is the president of One Strategy Group. 00:01:02.573 --> 00:01:10.213 a strategy and communications firm where he leads and manages major client relationships and the firm's strategic growth. 00:01:10.213 --> 00:01:19.233 He's held key leadership positions at some of the world's top communications organizations, including WPP, BCW, and Edelman. 00:01:19.233 --> 00:01:24.474 And he was a senior aide in the administration of New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg. 00:01:24.474 --> 00:01:30.477 Brian's a prominent leader in the overlapping worlds of corporate public affairs and purpose. 00:01:30.477 --> 00:01:41.237 He helped shape the strategy for the passage of the Respect of Marriage Act, the Equal Rights Amendment, ERA, and the Equality Act, and he serves on the board of Athlete Ally. 00:01:41.237 --> 00:01:45.018 Brian's a native New Yorker and he lives in the city with his husband. 00:01:45.018 --> 00:01:48.858 Brian, thanks so much for joining us and welcome to the show. 00:01:49.158 --> 00:01:49.757 Thank you. 00:01:49.757 --> 00:01:50.477 Thanks for having me. 00:01:50.477 --> 00:01:51.397 Great to be here. 00:01:51.397 --> 00:01:52.067 Yeah. 00:01:52.067 --> 00:01:53.977 Well, let's jump in. 00:01:53.977 --> 00:01:58.150 First of all, let's start the conversation off. 00:01:58.414 --> 00:02:02.713 Maybe take a few minutes and talk to me about how you identify. 00:02:02.713 --> 00:02:09.883 One of the things that has certainly been important about the podcast is really understanding where folks are coming from. 00:02:09.883 --> 00:02:11.653 How do they identify? 00:02:11.653 --> 00:02:17.324 And tell us a little bit about your coming out experience, either professionally or personally or both. 00:02:17.324 --> 00:02:20.054 Tell us a little bit about that. 00:02:20.054 --> 00:02:20.334 Sure. 00:02:20.334 --> 00:02:20.593 Wow. 00:02:20.593 --> 00:02:22.313 A lot to unpack there. 00:02:22.813 --> 00:02:27.014 So identify as a New Yorker and relevant. 00:02:28.045 --> 00:02:37.165 First and foremost, and probably most relevant to this podcast, Openly Gay Man, he, him, his pronouns. 00:02:37.985 --> 00:02:44.025 In terms of coming out, I think for like most people, it was a bit of a journey. 00:02:44.025 --> 00:02:48.366 Personally, ironically, less so professionally. 00:02:48.366 --> 00:02:57.006 I went to college at Dartmouth, which at the time, I don't really wanna date myself, but it was a few years ago. 00:02:57.006 --> 00:03:02.235 Um, it was a tough climate, um, to be openly gay. 00:03:02.235 --> 00:03:05.786 There were hardly any openly gay students on campus. 00:03:05.786 --> 00:03:20.566 And I was closeted in college and I came out to friends and family, um, in law school when I started, um, dating my first boyfriend. 00:03:20.566 --> 00:03:33.901 And it was sort of interesting at the time because I felt, um, I had been very political at Dartmouth, including around progressive politics, including around LGBTQIA issues. 00:03:33.901 --> 00:03:43.062 I was part of a movement to get ROTC removed from campus because at the time you couldn't serve openly in the military. 00:03:43.062 --> 00:03:47.081 So I was part of that movement and more broadly other diversity movements. 00:03:47.081 --> 00:03:51.533 And so I was a very political person and actually thought I wouldn't come out. 00:03:51.533 --> 00:03:55.204 in part because I was interested in pursuing a political career. 00:03:55.204 --> 00:03:57.774 And at the time there were really no role models. 00:03:58.574 --> 00:04:07.834 When I got to law school, I went to Harvard for law school and I was in Cambridge, which was a much more progressive place at the time. 00:04:07.834 --> 00:04:09.633 And met, as I said, my first boyfriend. 00:04:09.633 --> 00:04:20.622 And I sort of decided being a political person that I'd be a little militant about this and not treat my life any differently as if Andy had been a woman. 00:04:20.622 --> 00:04:26.221 I was gonna be the same person in life and it was up to everyone else to sort of deal with it. 00:04:26.221 --> 00:04:33.961 I'm dating this person, I'm in love with this person and you're gonna accept him and you're gonna accept us or not. 00:04:33.961 --> 00:04:48.281 So it was ironic after being closeted in college and in law school, I came out in my first relationship and felt very strongly that whether it was friends or family and ultimately the workplace, I wouldn't be treated differently. 00:04:48.442 --> 00:04:49.038 So. 00:04:49.038 --> 00:05:12.237 One funny story that my mother retells is evidently I took her out to brunch in Chelsea, of course, to tell her, and I don't honestly remember this, but she insists on it and sort of angrily told her that I was dating Andy and that I was bisexual like Madonna, how I came out to my mother. 00:05:12.598 --> 00:05:16.653 Which is very embarrassing today. 00:05:16.653 --> 00:05:22.834 But obviously at the time I was a big fan of Madonna and that's how I came out to my mother. 00:05:23.653 --> 00:05:30.934 So, you know, as I said, I sort of felt like it would, you know, everyone was going to have to accept me on these terms because I was going to be true to myself. 00:05:30.973 --> 00:05:35.994 So fast forward a couple years ago, a couple years and I had my first job at a law firm. 00:05:35.994 --> 00:05:40.394 It was a somewhat conservative law firm called White and Case in New York. 00:05:40.394 --> 00:05:48.634 And I felt, you know, I'm going to be out, right, because I'm gay and I'm going to be brave about this. 00:05:48.634 --> 00:06:04.783 So they kick off for first year associates with a retreat and we're going to a golf and tennis outing and I'm getting on a bus and literally everyone is dressed in khaki pants and prepared for golf. 00:06:04.783 --> 00:06:07.004 I'd signed up to tennis because I played tennis. 00:06:07.004 --> 00:06:11.206 I grew up in the East Village, never been on a golf course or to a golf club. 00:06:11.213 --> 00:06:16.043 And I'm looking at all of these people, many who are older and seemingly conservative. 00:06:16.043 --> 00:06:20.194 And as I said, all in pleated khaki pants, which I did not own. 00:06:20.473 --> 00:06:27.492 And I sit down on the bus and I'm like, wow, there's literally no way I'm going to come out in the workplace. 00:06:27.492 --> 00:06:29.274 This is terrifying. 00:06:29.514 --> 00:06:36.514 And a woman sits down next to me named Elaine Johnston, who was a partner at White in Case. 00:06:36.533 --> 00:06:41.187 And she was an out lesbian, partnered. 00:06:41.197 --> 00:06:45.197 And she obviously had done her research and knew who I was. 00:06:45.197 --> 00:06:49.858 And she sat down next to me and we got along, obviously, famously. 00:06:49.858 --> 00:06:52.997 And she became a great mentor. 00:06:53.158 --> 00:07:07.627 And I didn't need any convincing to come out after that bus ride to the country club, because I realized something that's very important, especially for young people to see in the workplace, that you could be enormously successful if you're out and true to yourself. 00:07:07.627 --> 00:07:09.454 And there's no more. 00:07:09.454 --> 00:07:13.423 you know, higher pinnacle than becoming a partner at a law firm when you are at a law firm. 00:07:13.423 --> 00:07:22.514 And she was, and she was widely respected and she was, she was an antitrust and, you know, really tough. 00:07:22.514 --> 00:07:29.074 And, uh, she was my first workplace mentor and, uh, I never really looked back after that. 00:07:29.074 --> 00:07:31.283 That is, that's really amazing. 00:07:31.283 --> 00:07:35.757 Some of the guests on Club for Good Brian have said in their advice. 00:07:35.757 --> 00:07:43.418 that they would give to others, which we'll talk about yours later, is they've often said, make sure you go find your people. 00:07:43.418 --> 00:07:45.257 They're out there, you know, find them. 00:07:45.257 --> 00:07:47.978 And your experience was almost just the opposite. 00:07:47.978 --> 00:07:51.327 Your people found you and made you feel comfortable and created that. 00:07:51.327 --> 00:07:53.218 It's really, and that is scary. 00:07:53.218 --> 00:08:01.637 And what, tell me a little bit about when you were contemplating why, you know, you've described khakis and conservative and golf. 00:08:01.637 --> 00:08:03.528 Why were you hesitant? 00:08:03.565 --> 00:08:04.305 to come out? 00:08:04.305 --> 00:08:07.970 What were you fearful of as you were contemplating? 00:08:09.646 --> 00:08:12.605 You know, I think it was about probably fitting in. 00:08:12.605 --> 00:08:16.086 I mean, to be fair, you know, a little bit to myself. 00:08:16.086 --> 00:08:19.105 I mean, we're literally talking about over the course of a bus ride. 00:08:19.105 --> 00:08:20.586 I changed my mind. 00:08:20.586 --> 00:08:28.985 But joking aside, I think it was I already felt, wow, I don't fit in separate and apart from sexuality. 00:08:28.985 --> 00:08:32.446 And I sort of felt this. 00:08:32.466 --> 00:08:35.436 You know, you said my people, these don't seem like my people. 00:08:35.436 --> 00:08:37.452 I've never played a round of golf. 00:08:37.452 --> 00:08:45.542 I don't own khaki pants or if they didn't have pleats, at least at the time. 00:08:45.542 --> 00:08:48.812 I think maybe pleats are coming back, so I don't want to offend anyone. 00:08:48.852 --> 00:08:59.913 So I think I already felt like, wow, this is going to be a lot to gain acceptance, much less to add to that other differentiator. 00:08:59.913 --> 00:09:03.918 And in a sense that we all have that... 00:09:03.918 --> 00:09:17.177 you know, Gator ability to sort of pick up others, especially back when people were much less public, we had ways of sort of finding each other before there were apps and before it was sort of everywhere, right? 00:09:17.177 --> 00:09:31.278 And I wasn't sensing any of that on that bus, or in the days or weeks that I had been at the firm until then, there were not a lot of out corporate associates back in that day, which is why. 00:09:31.278 --> 00:09:35.337 you know, Elaine was so important to me and so heroic in her own life. 00:09:35.337 --> 00:09:35.957 Yeah. 00:09:35.957 --> 00:09:36.488 Yeah. 00:09:36.488 --> 00:09:57.668 And, you know, even recently I was reading an article, you know, still today of, of employees, especially younger employees who identify as LGBT, close to half of them still fear what coming out might do to, as you say, fitting in, might, what it might do to their career, to their promotability. 00:09:57.668 --> 00:09:58.894 So there still is. 00:09:58.894 --> 00:10:03.734 even today as things have changed quite a bit, there still is that fear of that. 00:10:03.933 --> 00:10:26.865 So, and Brian, when you came out in this, your first role and you've now navigated, as I mentioned in introducing you, lots of really prominent organizations, both in the public and the private sector, as well as have been a part of a lot of significant nonprofit organizations. 00:10:27.662 --> 00:10:37.642 Have you found times and or what are those times where you feel like you've had to sort of question, am I going to be my authentic self? 00:10:37.642 --> 00:10:48.731 Have you found moments throughout the span of your career where you've had to modulate who you show up as or to hide your identity in some way as you've navigated your career? 00:10:50.669 --> 00:10:53.529 The truth is I really have not. 00:10:53.529 --> 00:11:04.289 After that initial questioning on the bus, before Elaine sat next to me and sort of fell in love with her as a mentor, I really haven't. 00:11:04.289 --> 00:11:06.389 And maybe I've been fortunate. 00:11:06.389 --> 00:11:10.730 The places that I've worked have been incredibly supportive. 00:11:10.730 --> 00:11:16.059 I've also managed to find mentors everywhere I've worked. 00:11:16.059 --> 00:11:17.320 And you said finding your people. 00:11:17.320 --> 00:11:19.885 When I went to Paul Weiss, there was Walter Rieman. 00:11:19.885 --> 00:11:26.145 And Robbie Kaplan, who now is famously argued the marriage equality case before the US Supreme Court. 00:11:26.145 --> 00:11:28.905 She was a partner of Paul Weiss when I was there. 00:11:28.905 --> 00:11:34.385 So I've always had mentors wherever I've been. 00:11:34.505 --> 00:11:40.365 And honestly, and that's why the number that you say about 50 % of employees are not out. 00:11:40.365 --> 00:11:47.025 I find it shocking because it's almost been an additive, I felt, in the workplace. 00:11:47.025 --> 00:12:00.885 And something that has You know, distinguished me and made me more relevant and important to these places because I have been able to speak to different experiences and help other people. 00:12:01.365 --> 00:12:05.966 Navigate difficult workplace environments sometimes. 00:12:05.966 --> 00:12:17.870 So, look regionally, I understand differences, but based on most industries in big cities, I'm still surprised by that, which is why I think the work that you're doing and. 00:12:17.870 --> 00:12:22.110 is really important because that number should be much higher. 00:12:22.110 --> 00:12:28.470 I mean, I'd like it to be 100 % someday, but I'm surprised it's not in the 70s, 80s or 90s right now. 00:12:28.470 --> 00:12:30.980 Yeah, it still surprises me too. 00:12:30.980 --> 00:12:39.750 And as you said, sort of one of the reasons I wanted to have these conversations in Start Club for Good is to share these stories. 00:12:39.750 --> 00:12:46.529 And not everyone has had an easy go at it and there are challenges along the way for sure. 00:12:46.529 --> 00:12:47.214 And... 00:12:47.214 --> 00:13:02.774 You know, Brian, using your experience from any part of your professional career, one of the things, the reason that Clout for Good got its name is when you're out in the workplace, the idea is you can use your clout. 00:13:02.774 --> 00:13:04.274 You can really make a difference. 00:13:04.274 --> 00:13:11.033 And as you've said, with helping others and sharing and showing up authentically, give us some examples. 00:13:11.033 --> 00:13:14.533 Talk to folks who don't know you. 00:13:14.765 --> 00:13:21.666 I certainly know some of these examples of having been able to get to know you over the years, but when have you used your clout for good? 00:13:21.666 --> 00:13:26.355 When have you used your clout for good to make a difference at a company or an organization or for a movement? 00:13:26.355 --> 00:13:35.186 What are some examples that you can share of how you've used that clout for good in real time? 00:13:35.706 --> 00:13:41.956 Yeah, so I've honestly tried to make that a mission of mine wherever I've worked. 00:13:41.956 --> 00:13:42.894 And sometimes I've... 00:13:42.894 --> 00:13:48.333 My work has been mission driven and I can talk about that a little bit, including in our space. 00:13:48.333 --> 00:14:07.214 But when I was lawyering back at Paul Weiss, I worked on a number of pro bono cases that impacted our community, including one with Robbie Kaplan involving Yeshiva University where they had a policy around housing that excluded non -married couples from living together and a lesbian couple brought suit. 00:14:07.214 --> 00:14:12.153 And of course they couldn't marry at the time in New York or anywhere. 00:14:12.429 --> 00:14:17.309 So I am dating myself and so, you know, we work pro bono on that case. 00:14:17.309 --> 00:14:31.610 I also worked on another case with some colleagues of Paul Weiss where we represented an HIV positive man who was denied access to his HIV meds during his pre incarceration arraignment time. 00:14:32.549 --> 00:14:41.101 So, you know, did that work did a number of pro bono campaigns since I've gotten into the communications world most recently. 00:14:41.101 --> 00:14:48.782 With WPP, we did a big campaign with HRC, the human rights campaign in support of the Equality Act, which you mentioned. 00:14:49.162 --> 00:15:06.121 Many people don't realize, including people within our community, that despite the fact that we have marriage equality across the country, we can still be discriminated against in various facets of life in many, many states, because many states don't have non -discrimination laws. 00:15:06.121 --> 00:15:07.309 So that's why. 00:15:07.309 --> 00:15:18.450 There is something called the Equality Act, which has yet to pass Congress, but we did a big campaign called the Reality Flag Campaign, which was HRC's, one of HRC's most successful campaigns ever. 00:15:18.450 --> 00:15:37.197 We also did a really fun pro bono campaign with the mayor of New York, Eric Adams, after DeSantis pushed the so -called don't say gay bill, and we put billboards all over Florida, pro bono saying New York City says gay, New York loves you, come to a city where you're supported, really. 00:15:37.197 --> 00:15:41.437 get under his skin and to sort of make a point and bring attention to it. 00:15:41.437 --> 00:15:47.597 So I've always tried to use my clout for good in the public sphere, but also internally. 00:15:47.597 --> 00:16:07.341 One thing I'm really proud of that I pushed for recently at WPP was to develop family planning benefits for same -sex couples because we were not eligible when I got there for things like a surrogacy benefit. 00:16:07.341 --> 00:16:17.381 And as many people know, it's incredibly challenging and costly whether to pursue adoption or surrogacy as a same sex couple who don't have other options. 00:16:17.381 --> 00:16:18.591 So we now have a benefit. 00:16:18.591 --> 00:16:23.922 So I've always pushed internally for those kinds of resources as well. 00:16:23.922 --> 00:16:24.751 That's great. 00:16:24.751 --> 00:16:25.741 That's amazing. 00:16:25.741 --> 00:16:30.701 I mean, and I think it's great because you've, you know, on the sort of... 00:16:30.701 --> 00:16:42.841 political side and on the professional side, you've also been able to, as you even said, with your bio and your intro, is really mix those two together, really merge them together and focus on them. 00:16:42.841 --> 00:16:48.062 And not a lot of people get to do both of those things and cross over with their professional work. 00:16:49.381 --> 00:17:11.001 A lot of people I've learned now with quite a few episodes recorded and getting feedback from folks who listen, A lot of folks are in that 50 % of I'm not quite living authentically or they're questioning whether they should come out or what does it mean to be authentic? 00:17:11.221 --> 00:17:26.692 And getting back to as you explained that Elaine had found you, what are some maybe recommendations or tips or what would you give as advice to someone who's questioning, I want to be more authentic. 00:17:26.692 --> 00:17:27.602 I want to come out. 00:17:27.602 --> 00:17:28.108 I want to. 00:17:28.108 --> 00:17:29.608 to show up differently? 00:17:29.608 --> 00:17:34.088 What advice would you give them as they think about that in their workplace? 00:17:35.148 --> 00:17:37.689 Well, look, so much of it is individual. 00:17:37.689 --> 00:17:41.469 So honestly, I'd like to give them advice, understanding their unique situations. 00:17:41.469 --> 00:17:44.028 But I could say a few things that are a little general. 00:17:44.028 --> 00:17:50.528 I don't think you can be effective in life without being your whole self and who you are. 00:17:50.528 --> 00:18:02.198 And you're going to be handicapped whatever you're doing, whether it is athletics, whether it's communications, whether it's politics, whether it's law, finance, whatever you're doing, if you can't be yourself, right? 00:18:02.198 --> 00:18:04.028 There's a part of you that's not out there. 00:18:04.028 --> 00:18:08.298 You're always gonna be partly worried about being found out. 00:18:08.478 --> 00:18:12.298 I think it takes away from your career in big ways. 00:18:12.377 --> 00:18:21.698 Often people know anyway, and there's issues around courage and respect and all that other stuff that gets wrapped into. 00:18:21.698 --> 00:18:25.102 I would say that I've only had. 00:18:25.390 --> 00:18:38.250 Great, I know it's not the case for everyone else, you know, for everyone and regional differences might matter and potentially what kind of work you're doing and who you're surrounded by. 00:18:38.250 --> 00:18:54.925 So I don't want to be glib, but I've been really fortunate where being out and true to myself and also pushing for equal rights for our community and for others have done a lot of work and a lot of civil rights work on race and done a lot of work on women's equality. 00:18:54.925 --> 00:19:05.865 But all of that has only helped me in my career and sort of a funny story, but the reason I'm actually in communications right now almost has to do with that. 00:19:06.826 --> 00:19:16.405 I left the mayor's office when I was working for Mike Bloomberg in 2011 to work on the campaign for marriage in New York, which we famously won with a Republican Senate. 00:19:16.405 --> 00:19:23.665 And it was a big moment for the movement and we never lost again at before legislature or a plebiscite. 00:19:24.781 --> 00:19:31.761 And I stayed on for a little bit after we won in New York to help build Americans for marriage equality with the human rights campaign. 00:19:31.821 --> 00:19:45.061 And while I was doing that work, there was an article in the New York Times about Steve Schmidt who went on to found the Lincoln project, but who at the time had just run John McCain's campaign for president. 00:19:45.061 --> 00:19:50.481 And Steve was a Republican operator before he left the Republican party over Trump. 00:19:50.481 --> 00:19:53.038 And he was at Edelman. 00:19:53.038 --> 00:20:07.238 And he was working with Anthony Romero of the ACLU who was leading it then and still leads it today on strategies for bringing more Republicans out and support a gay marriage or marriage equality. 00:20:07.238 --> 00:20:08.678 I read that Times article. 00:20:08.678 --> 00:20:10.718 I'm like, that's what I've been trying to do for the last two years. 00:20:10.718 --> 00:20:12.798 I need to meet this guy. 00:20:12.817 --> 00:20:20.683 So through, you know, common friends, I reached out to Steve and he was up for meeting and I went down to DC and. 00:20:20.750 --> 00:20:25.380 He was drinking me under the table at lunch, you know, martini after martini. 00:20:25.380 --> 00:20:32.130 I was trying to keep up and we're talking about everything but marriage equality and getting along famously. 00:20:32.150 --> 00:20:32.750 It's a time. 00:20:32.750 --> 00:20:38.150 Remember he's a Republican who just run McCain's campaign and he said, you know, you should, you should come work at Edelman. 00:20:38.150 --> 00:20:39.230 Richard would love you. 00:20:39.230 --> 00:20:41.109 You did the gay marriage work. 00:20:41.109 --> 00:20:43.539 You know, you went to Dartmouth, you're a lawyer. 00:20:43.597 --> 00:20:47.298 Um, and I said to, you know, Steve, is that even a possibility? 00:20:47.298 --> 00:20:49.817 And he basically said, Oh, you don't know the guy who led public affairs. 00:20:49.817 --> 00:21:02.557 He'd left a few weeks ago and, you know, fast forward a few weeks and I'm meeting with, you know, Richard Edelman and other senior leaders at Edelman and was hired, you know, within weeks or a month or two of that meeting with Steve. 00:21:02.557 --> 00:21:09.869 So just an example where like, not just being openly gay was in that positive, but the work for the movement was perceived by. 00:21:09.869 --> 00:21:21.960 You know, a straight Republican and ultimately, you know, Richard Edelman, a straight man is, you know, one of the most prominent people in communications as big pluses, right? 00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:25.349 And he took a chance on me because for me it was a second or third career. 00:21:25.349 --> 00:21:31.380 I went from law into politics with Bloomberg while I had done a lot of communications in the Bloomberg administration. 00:21:31.380 --> 00:21:35.190 And of course, the marriage campaign was largely communicated. 00:21:35.342 --> 00:21:37.402 I wasn't classically trained in it. 00:21:37.402 --> 00:21:44.182 I didn't grow up in an agency, but Richard hired me on the strength of those experiences. 00:21:45.041 --> 00:21:54.642 So I urge everyone to come out, be your true authentic self and anyone who wants to talk about it, I'm easy to find. 00:21:54.642 --> 00:21:55.392 I love it. 00:21:55.392 --> 00:21:57.781 I mean, Brian, that's such a great example. 00:21:57.781 --> 00:22:00.589 I mean, to your point, it's... 00:22:00.589 --> 00:22:04.880 I'm gonna be myself, I'm gonna be authentic and you're rewarded for it. 00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:24.930 And like you said, I think many people are in different financial situations or geographical situations, corporate environments, and they're making different decisions based on that, which as one of my guests said, first and foremost, make sure you're safe and make sure you're financially able to. 00:22:24.930 --> 00:22:28.461 And I think then though, once you're beyond that, or if you... 00:22:28.461 --> 00:22:29.481 can get beyond that. 00:22:29.481 --> 00:22:35.192 I think it's such a great example of, and in an unexpected way, I'm doing the right thing. 00:22:35.192 --> 00:22:45.862 I'm fighting for what I believe in, and it's recognized for something that could be even more about, and has led you on this career journey to now being the president of Strategy One, which is just, which is amazing. 00:22:45.862 --> 00:22:48.142 So I think that's a great example. 00:22:49.021 --> 00:23:06.579 What advice, and you sort of alluded to this maybe by some of the changes you led at WPP, but what advice might you give, There's also a lot of folks from companies that are allies or they work in DE &I or they work in HR that are listeners of Clot for Good. 00:23:06.579 --> 00:23:11.670 What advice would you give to the workplace, to companies? 00:23:11.670 --> 00:23:23.390 What changes would you like to see or what advice might you give to companies that are listening to this and thinking about their LGBTQ efforts within their workplace? 00:23:23.930 --> 00:23:25.250 Sure, well, a few things. 00:23:25.250 --> 00:23:26.766 I'd start off with a thank you. 00:23:26.766 --> 00:23:30.215 because I think allies are incredibly important. 00:23:30.215 --> 00:23:47.306 As you mentioned at the beginning, it's why I was a founding board member of Athlete Ally, which is an organization that's focused on ending homophobia in sports and also using the reach of professional athletes to push for equal rights. 00:23:47.306 --> 00:23:49.306 Allyship is really important. 00:23:49.306 --> 00:23:57.662 I think this is a really big moment to have that conversation because look, we don't always progress. 00:23:57.662 --> 00:24:00.332 Sometimes there are steps back in movements. 00:24:00.332 --> 00:24:02.301 And right now we're seeing that, right? 00:24:02.301 --> 00:24:08.682 We're seeing significant attacks on the transgender community across the nation. 00:24:08.682 --> 00:24:17.221 We're seeing a revolt against DEI and policies that are focused on making workplaces more inclusive. 00:24:17.221 --> 00:24:22.481 And I would say to our allies, like, stand up for your people and continue to do the right thing. 00:24:22.481 --> 00:24:25.486 Keep pushing for equal health benefits. 00:24:25.486 --> 00:24:28.826 Support which are employee resource groups. 00:24:28.826 --> 00:24:35.925 You don't know how important that is for some young employees who are worried about coming out what you just discussed the 50% number. 00:24:35.925 --> 00:24:41.816 I mean, all allies and all of us should be sort of stunned by that. 00:24:41.816 --> 00:24:45.715 It shows how much more we need to do despite the progress. 00:24:45.715 --> 00:24:54.221 So, yeah, I think this is a real moment and I would say that I would also advise them to really focus on your people. 00:24:54.221 --> 00:25:07.602 I mean, some of the best responses I've ever heard to the sort of anti woke movement right now are by leaders who bring it back to equal rights, to workforce and protecting employees that it's not about politics. 00:25:07.602 --> 00:25:09.402 It's not about posing. 00:25:09.402 --> 00:25:18.662 It's about making sure everyone who works for me is protected, is safe, is included, belongs and has equal rights and benefits. 00:25:18.662 --> 00:25:23.182 And I think we've seen a number of CEOs speak out. 00:25:23.182 --> 00:25:30.061 on that issue powerfully recently, trying to push back against the so -called sort of anti -woke movement. 00:25:30.142 --> 00:25:35.811 Yeah, and I love the advice of allies standing up, standing beside. 00:25:35.811 --> 00:25:44.205 And I think your example of marriage equality and your WPP work around surrogacy and adoption, I think there is. 00:25:44.718 --> 00:25:47.678 An opportunity to listen and to learn. 00:25:47.678 --> 00:25:51.097 I think the assumption is, like you said, oh, marriage equality. 00:25:51.097 --> 00:25:52.847 That means everything's okay. 00:25:52.847 --> 00:25:56.978 That means everything is equal and there still is a lot of work to do. 00:25:56.978 --> 00:26:06.897 And to your point, with so much anti-legislation and efforts, more than ever, we need allies to be standing up and to be there beside us. 00:26:06.897 --> 00:26:08.887 Well, two final questions, Brian. 00:26:08.887 --> 00:26:11.117 One is... 00:26:11.117 --> 00:26:20.458 You've been a part of so many great organizations, again, both professionally, but also, I think, importantly, from a nonprofit and a political perspective. 00:26:20.637 --> 00:26:30.438 What resources, I ask this of every guest, these last two questions, but what resource, or if you want to name a few, that's totally fine. 00:26:30.438 --> 00:26:34.798 But what resources might you share with listeners of Cloud for Good? 00:26:34.798 --> 00:26:37.965 Like we've mentioned, maybe someone thinking of... 00:26:37.965 --> 00:26:45.865 coming out at work, maybe an ally, and it may be someone who's completely out at work and running their ERG and doing some great work. 00:26:45.865 --> 00:26:51.465 But what resources have you tapped into or would you like to share with the listeners of Cloud for Good? 00:26:51.865 --> 00:26:58.425 I mean, the truth is there's so much out there and so many good organizations doing great work. 00:26:58.425 --> 00:27:07.150 I've found resources at GLAD really helpful, particularly around language and inclusivity. 00:27:07.150 --> 00:27:11.559 and combating hate speech and other things. 00:27:11.559 --> 00:27:16.289 I think GLAD has tons of resources on their website. 00:27:16.289 --> 00:27:28.940 Obviously the Human Rights Campaign, HRC, particularly the Corporate Equality Index is a great measure to have conversations about equal treatment of workers in any workplace environment. 00:27:28.940 --> 00:27:32.150 It's a great place for resources. 00:27:32.150 --> 00:27:33.614 But again, it really depends. 00:27:33.614 --> 00:27:35.884 depends on the issue and where you're working. 00:27:35.884 --> 00:27:38.314 I mean, I'll make another plug for athlete ally. 00:27:38.314 --> 00:27:41.973 I think sports is still one of the places where we need to do a lot of work. 00:27:41.973 --> 00:27:48.294 There isn't a single openly gay male athlete right now in any of the four big sports. 00:27:48.294 --> 00:27:50.114 We know why that is. 00:27:50.114 --> 00:27:58.114 There's still so much homophobia in sport at every level and too many kids aren't playing because of that. 00:27:58.114 --> 00:28:00.923 And, you know, there's a lot more we could do on that. 00:28:00.923 --> 00:28:02.862 We need some heroic. 00:28:02.862 --> 00:28:04.582 people to come out. 00:28:04.582 --> 00:28:06.201 You talk about workplace not being out. 00:28:06.201 --> 00:28:10.932 There's no more important place, I think, than in professional sports to make a difference in society. 00:28:10.932 --> 00:28:18.980 So I hope we'll see some more brave people as we have seen a few in recent years. 00:28:18.980 --> 00:28:22.241 Yeah, those are three great resources. 00:28:22.241 --> 00:28:35.940 And I think as we think of folks listening, there's this a lot of the movements that have happened over the years, whether it's Me Too or whatever those movements are. 00:28:35.940 --> 00:28:39.779 There's this idea of if you're not familiar, go do the work. 00:28:39.779 --> 00:28:42.380 If you're not familiar, go out there and find the information. 00:28:42.380 --> 00:28:54.789 And I think you've just given three resources where there are, whether it's the Corporate Equality Index or languaging or policy around what's happening with transgendered athletes in schools. 00:28:54.789 --> 00:28:57.819 All those organizations have a lot of information. 00:28:57.819 --> 00:29:00.365 I'll certainly share those organizations on. 00:29:00.365 --> 00:29:06.736 Club for Good social media, but I definitely encourage listeners to go to those sites and sign up for newsletters. 00:29:06.736 --> 00:29:11.746 You're gonna find a lot of information that'll be really invaluable as you navigate this. 00:29:11.826 --> 00:29:21.625 And Brian, the final question, just a fun one, but I think it always gives perspective and something I've learned as I monitor the social media for Club for Good. 00:29:21.625 --> 00:29:28.445 I post on social media the guests, their answer to this question. 00:29:28.445 --> 00:29:35.342 And it is always the top, engaging and liked post, which is really funny. 00:29:35.342 --> 00:29:39.342 I think just people love seeing and learning about people in our community. 00:29:39.342 --> 00:29:46.551 So the final question is who has inspired you along the way? 00:29:46.551 --> 00:29:53.142 And I want to ask that question in sort of a, who might you invite to a Clout for Good dinner party? 00:29:53.142 --> 00:29:58.922 Are there people who you admire that you just sounds like maybe you're a Madonna fan. 00:29:58.922 --> 00:30:00.557 So maybe you just have fun with, but. 00:30:00.557 --> 00:30:07.137 Who might you, a couple of people that you might invite to a Club for Good Dinner party that you'd share with listeners? 00:30:08.597 --> 00:30:13.377 These are people from the movement living or no longer with us? 00:30:14.038 --> 00:30:16.836 Yeah, yeah, either way, yep, either way. 00:30:16.836 --> 00:30:18.057 Okay. 00:30:18.678 --> 00:30:27.246 So the person that I've most wanted to have dinner with and regret. 00:30:27.246 --> 00:30:37.306 you know, never having encountered in my life, who's no longer with us is James Baldwin, who is a hero of mine in many respects as a civil rights crusader. 00:30:37.566 --> 00:30:45.915 As an author who wrote, you know, Giovanni's Room was probably the most impactful novel I've read in my life. 00:30:45.915 --> 00:30:51.955 It was the first openly gay novel I read when I was in college or should say gay theme novel. 00:30:51.955 --> 00:30:56.385 And I know how hard it was for him to get that published. 00:30:56.397 --> 00:31:06.617 how hard it was for him to live in America under such violent racism at the time that he fled to France. 00:31:06.617 --> 00:31:12.077 And just an amazing person how he powerfully wrote about love. 00:31:12.077 --> 00:31:24.097 So James Baldwin, I think, Billie Jean King, who, you know, I've already mentioned I'm a huge, huge sports fan and you talk about courage, she came out. 00:31:24.653 --> 00:31:31.554 So many years ago at a time when there were I think there were no other professional athletes who were out or had ever been out potentially. 00:31:31.554 --> 00:31:51.294 He also did so much around gender equality, including obviously the famous Bobby Riggs match, but equal pay and she's still fighting for all the ERA equal pay and other sports outside of tennis where she already won that a true hero and. 00:31:52.269 --> 00:31:53.390 I mean, it's so hard. 00:31:53.390 --> 00:31:56.049 I'll just throw one more out there and I'll say Elton John. 00:31:56.049 --> 00:32:01.990 And I'll say Elton John again, dating myself a bit because when I was growing up, there really were no role models. 00:32:01.990 --> 00:32:07.230 And there were so few people who were out. 00:32:07.230 --> 00:32:13.470 And like Billie Jean King, he came out at a relatively young time for us. 00:32:13.470 --> 00:32:19.980 And he was literally one of the only openly gay figures I knew of when I was growing up. 00:32:19.980 --> 00:32:29.817 And it wasn't just the fact that He came out and that he's hugely talented, but how he's devoted so much of his life for good and through client relationships. 00:32:29.817 --> 00:32:40.117 I've had the opportunity to work with the Elton John AIDS Foundation and the work he is doing globally to try and end AIDS in his lifetime is just extraordinary. 00:32:40.117 --> 00:32:44.478 So I think, I also think all three of them would get along and respect each other. 00:32:44.478 --> 00:32:48.397 So I think it would be a really fun and interesting conversation. 00:32:48.397 --> 00:32:50.733 As much as I'd love to also have dinner with Madonna. 00:32:50.733 --> 00:32:52.173 Yeah, right. 00:32:52.173 --> 00:32:53.874 Maybe Madonna's a given. 00:32:53.874 --> 00:32:56.413 Maybe she would be already at the club for a good dinner. 00:32:56.413 --> 00:32:58.294 But yeah, those are great guests. 00:32:58.294 --> 00:33:03.124 I mean, having read some James Baldwin on my own, I certainly relate to that. 00:33:03.124 --> 00:33:07.784 Billie Jean King, one of my top guests that I would invite as well. 00:33:07.784 --> 00:33:20.269 And I love that Elton John invitation too, because I think he also really just demonstrates to me, like you said, not only being authentic, but I think, and celebrating true difference. 00:33:20.269 --> 00:33:37.369 whether it's through his wardrobe and styling or just really, really, and we saw through his last US concert at Dodger Stadium, creating something that is just not going to be recreated and just really a national treasure from a music perspective. 00:33:37.369 --> 00:33:40.799 Well, Brian, thank you so much for what you do for the community. 00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:45.741 As a fellow marketer, thank you for everything you do for the marketing industry and what... 00:33:45.741 --> 00:33:50.602 that what you do at all of the companies that you've worked for from a communications perspective. 00:33:50.602 --> 00:33:53.622 So thank you so much for joining me today. 00:33:54.082 --> 00:33:54.652 Thanks a lot. 00:33:54.652 --> 00:33:55.682 It was really fun. 00:33:55.682 --> 00:33:56.172 Yeah. 00:33:56.172 --> 00:33:56.862 Thank you, Brian. 00:33:56.862 --> 00:33:59.321 Well, and to my listeners, thanks for joining today. 00:33:59.321 --> 00:34:03.521 Please tune in every other Wednesday for a new episode of Cloud for Good. 00:34:03.521 --> 00:34:08.461 Follow us on social media and visit cloudforgood .com to subscribe to our newsletter. 00:34:08.461 --> 00:34:14.422 I hope that this episode motivates you to use your Cloud for Good to make a difference in your workplace. 00:34:14.422 --> 00:34:15.742 Thanks for joining.