Hello everyone and welcome to Clout for Good.
It's a bi -weekly podcast that showcases personal and powerful conversations with prominent LGBTQ plus executives who are out in the workplace.
The conversations are meant to create a supportive community and inspire LGBTQ plus people, their employers and allies to build equity and inclusion in the workplace.
Today, I'd like to welcome Rob Smith, who's the chief executive officer and founder of Fluid, which includes the Fluid Project, Get Fluid and the Fluid Foundation.
Rob's created a brand combining his profession, which is retail, along with his passion for a commitment for social justice.
Rob began a long career in retail spanning over 30 years, orchestrating multi-billion dollar businesses through merchandising, e -commerce, marketing, product development, and supply chain management with brands like Macy's, Victoria's Secret, Levi's, and Nike.
Rob leads the CSR committee as a member of the board of directors for Steve Madden and is an executive in residence with Wonderkind.
Rob lives in New York city with his husband and his dog, Jackson.
Rob, thanks so much for your time today and welcome to the show.
Thank you David for having me, I appreciate it.
it's great to have you here.
So I'm excited today to talk.
I think that your experience being on sort of more traditional corporate side of the business within the retail space, as I mentioned, those companies that you've, you've worked for, and then also starting a business that's directly in the D E and I LGBTQ plus space, really driving for authenticity, which is what.
Cloud for Good is attempting to do as well.
So I'm anxious to hear from you.
So the first question I have, I ask everyone the same question is, let's just start talking about one.
Let us know how you identify and talk about your professional coming out.
And I know we often have more than one coming out experience.
We may have come out a lot of times.
So any of those examples or experiences, but tell us a little bit about.
coming out in the workplace for you and what that meant for you.
or I'll unpack what I, if I can remember all your, the things you said.
First of all, how I identify, I use he, they pronouns.
I identify as a cisgendered, whitish, gayish man.
I say ish because there's a spectrum, you know, for lots of us.
And yeah, I use he, they, I use, I most, I he, him, we go by he, him, but also they, them.
I am an advocate for if you don't know someone's pronouns, just use they, them.
It's very natural.
Um, whereas David, I don't know, I haven't seen them for awhile.
Um, and, but like, yeah.
And also, um, I'm part indigenous and in the journey that I took in creating fluid, I found out about two spirit indigenous peoples, which is the third gender.
And they were the most revered in their communities and, and usually are almost often became shamans because they were, they had this balance of both masculine and feminine energy.
And I think about where I am today in my life through process of growing up is embracing my feminine side and my masculine side and living both truthfully and creating my authentic self in that process.
So that's how I identify.
Thanks.
And then the next question is my coming out story.
Yeah, that was a journey.
I, of course, knew I was queer from a very young age.
I...
worked really hard to suppress anything that was perceived as queer.
So it was my younger self who was artistic and creative, loved theater and dolls and hang with my sister and my brothers and we're very much into sports and then wasn't my gig.
And then going from junior high into high school, I reinvented myself to someone that I thought society and my family, my faith and educators would see as more accepting.
So I, played sports, I presented more masculine, dressed more masculine.
And the world is great.
I had so many opportunities and I took that person into the professional space.
And then I realized like around the age of 23 or 22, I wasn't really my authentic self.
And I came out to my colleagues and my family and I was received so well.
I was received with so much love.
But one of the things I like to remind myself and other people that when I came out and 1989 was a different time when you came out, it was usually followed with, and by the way, I'm HIV positive.
And so coming out to your family, your colleagues was that fear of not just the world was going to be harder for you and your career was going to be more challenging, but you also might be facing a death sentence at the same time.
So there was a lot bundled in the coming out process at that time.
But I was received with love and acceptance from my family, from my colleagues.
They laughed, they said, walk out of the closet, I came screaming out of the closet, I changed the way I dressed, I was, it was Miami Beach, I was working at Berdines at the time, and I was received with so much love and acceptance.
And then I like really shifted from, even my presentation, I refused to wear a suit anymore, I would only wear a vest, I had more makeup, I pierced my ears.
I love it.
just came out with guns ablaze and received with so much.
And I remember even being interviewed by May Company.
They would try to take me because I was very successful.
And I would always walk in with a red blazer and a Versace tie and just like this outrageous guy in the Harvard club.
And I just felt like, is this the guy you really want?
Because this is who you're getting.
And it's...
Yeah.
So I just coming out as my authentic self and I figured I didn't want to work anywhere where I couldn't be myself.
And that was, and I kind of wanted to almost put it in people's faces.
Like this is who you're getting.
So I wouldn't waste my time or their time going someplace that I wouldn't be embraced.
And I do think that when you're your authentic self at work, you're much more productive.
You're more successful.
You're not thinking about what secrets you're hiding or not telling.
And you're just able to show up 120%.
I love and Rob, you know, sometimes I think there are some stereotypes about industries, you know, retail travel.
It's, you know, those are very, you know, LGBTQ friendly spaces.
Did you, do you think that's part of as you were in retail at the time when you were coming out?
Do you think the industry had anything to do with it or do you, what are your thoughts on that?
Well, I mean, people think about fashion and retail as being super queer accepting.
The only role model I had was the head of the, not the fashion office, but the visual department.
So the visual area was very queer friendly.
The merchant team was, you know, a lot of white straight Jewish guys.
And that was it with like a few women and women were really working through the organization, especially at Berdine's.
But I was received across the board with love and acceptance.
I think partially because I was so damn good at my job that they kind of had to like address it.
But yeah, I mean, I still am close to the leaders at Bredine's at the time.
And just the love and acceptance, I can't even tell you how much it meant to be able to be that person.
And a lot of people don't have that.
I do think the retail industry probably compared to like finance or, you know, consumer goods or something like that is a little different.
But I...
Yeah.
I mean, it was for in large part, I was paving the way at that time and in the late eighties to be openly gay.
and I think you've touched on something that that prior guests on Club for Good have mentioned, and that is everyone's advice is you got to do your job.
Number one, first and foremost, before you before you figure out who you're going to show up as and how and what you're going to fight for and advocate for.
Number one, do your job.
Check that box.
Make sure that you're delivering.
Make sure you understand what that looks like.
So I think that definitely resonates.
And.
I myself came out in 1995.
I know we're both from Michigan, sort of Midwest backgrounds and did the same thing all through college.
It was, this was this persona I'm going to pursue.
It's this sort of straight persona and then, then figured it out myself.
And I think you touched on something that I've often thought about as well, which is back then the very first thing often out of the mouth of someone you just told you were gay was.
Are you okay?
Are you going to be okay?
You know, are you sick?
What's going to happen?
And I think that definitely has changed, but it was real.
It was a very sort of scary thing to sort of navigate all of it, you know, with your family and with your friends.
I also had a very accepting experience, you know, as well.
But what do you think, you know, I know I'd like to hear a little more about, I think it's a great opportunity for folks that listen to Cloud for Good to hear a little bit about Fluid.
Tell us about what that is.
well, before I do that, can I just say, and then that will lead into fluid.
I think I have drawn a strong correlation between coming out as a gay man in the late 80s, early 90s as coming out as trans today, that there is a stigma, a fear, a misunderstanding, that there's a high rate of suicide, you know, and part of the reason my fight, is so deep and grounded in, I guess, purpose is because I understand and have some empathy and understanding for what the trans community is going through today because of what we went through at the time we went through it.
And it's very similar.
And I'm not sure many gay men or women see that same similarity, but I see you now to your head that you see it as well.
That they're, yeah.
sense.
Absolutely.
And interesting enough, statistically, looking at I looked at Gallup and as morally acceptable in the year 2000, the Americans saw gay and lesbian people, Americans 40 % is morally acceptable.
And today it's around 90%.
But the trans community is at 40 % today morally acceptable.
And I think about the work and that has a generation to come to achieve.
Great.
we are, if we continue with progress, that that's the fight that we're fighting right now is that, and also interesting enough, for the first time ever, there was a decline in gay men and gay women being morally acceptable.
So there is something to be concerned about that there is, it's not all, you know, rosy good that there is, if we're not diligent, that this could turn back.
like it has in the past, you know, in other ways with other communities.
Yeah.
know, sort of anti -LGBTQ legislation with the political environment now, it's more than ever feels a bit like, you know, the times we're talking about, whether it's eighties or nineties of, you know, we need to rally, we need to come together.
We really need to be focused because there's a lot at risk as we see things of overturning Roe versus Wade and otherwise, there's a lot happening.
body autonomy.
I mean, it goes back to sodomy, you know, pretty soon if it's, you know, a woman's body, it comes down to who we can have relationships with that there'll be a extremist governing of our bodies by a group of people.
It's just something to consider.
Yeah, diligent and not to get comfortable too comfortable.
That's right.
Well, and I'm, I, I'd be interested to hear, um, well, as I mentioned earlier, fluid and you know, you were working for these global retail brands, you're having a successful career.
Tell us about the transition from retail to fluid or, and it may not have been that, that, that sort of clean cut of a transition.
It may have been fluid.
Um, tell us a little bit about it.
It was super clean.
It was like, I can tell you everything that happened on the journey.
So I remember just thinking that I was living two lives that one during the day, it was my professional life.
And after work, I was working with nonprofits, was deeply involved with Hetrick Barton, which is the LGBTQ plus afterschool program in New York, the first ever of its kind in the country or around the world.
along with other nonprofits.
So I felt like I was doing two things separately.
And along this journey, it was always, the separation kind of bothered me.
And then I went to my first Burning Man for folks who don't know Burning Man is this like, some people think it's like, it's all about music and it is about art and music.
But it's really about radical inclusion.
It's about radical acceptance.
And this also, in a week long event that, that, that 75,000 people come into this space and they really quickly adapt to this social code.
And, and the social code is acceptance and love and, and self -expression.
And one of the funny things was by day two, that a lot of straight guys were running into our RV and saying, can I borrow a pair of tights?
Can you paint my nails?
Can I wear some, some eye makeup?
Can I wear your tutu today?
And I was like, wow, like so they were so liberated and free.
And I was really struck by that freedom of sexuality, expression, all of it, just because it was a safe place.
And then, and then they had to go back to like the real world.
And there was actually like therapy groups and for folks who worked at wall street, how they adapt back to this like space.
Um, and I didn't know what it meant, but I knew I wanted to do something different with my life.
And so I quit my job.
And there's a saying, don't quit your job after your first burning man.
I quit my job.
I gave five months notice and I put on a backpack and I decided that the answer was somewhere in the world.
And I traveled for six months around the world.
a lot of time in India, Nepal, Tibet.
And I was in Central America and South America.
In South America, I did a plant -based journey work in the Amazon.
And I remember on April 14th, 2017, I wrote down, consider opening a gender-free non -binary shopping environment.
I wrote fluid in quotation marks.
And I opened the world's first gender-free store 10 months later.
It was just like that.
Yeah.
And tell us about it.
Tell us about fluid.
Tell us about what you guys do and where you're headed and some things maybe you've learned.
Tell us a little bit about.
Sure.
So the mission of Fluid is we challenge boundaries with humanity.
So we just say, we say, because something has been one way, doesn't mean there's not a better way.
And we try to find a better way for more people to be their authentic selves in this planet, in this society.
And so we created the Fluid Project, which is a gender free fashion brand, which is grounded in community activism and education.
And from that, Idea was the world's first gender -free store the store closed two years later, but the commitment to education community and activism continues in ways And so there's the fluid project fashion so last year fluid showed up in about 8 ,000 retail stores with categories from sense and apparel and accessories and lots of different categories just launched an intimacy collection, which is really cool and Then we launched Get Fluid, which is gender expansive training.
So in the store, one of the social codes is we're all students, we're all teachers.
And I was a student for two years.
And then I thought, how do I teach corporations about what's happening with younger people?
Mostly younger people, not exclusively younger people.
And so with training, how we train strategic advising training about 40 companies a year we work with.
And then focusing on community.
Two years ago, I launched the Fluid Foundation and that's really about working with corporations to allocate money to grassroots organizations.
So right now the big three get much of the money.
You know, think about Trevor Project, HRC and GLAD.
But the small organizations, which are doing a lot of great work, are getting no money because they don't know how to write grants, they don't have access to people who have money.
So...
We have raised a million dollars in two years and we gift money.
We don't grant money.
We gift it to organizations.
And I think we're making a real difference by doing that and moving just, and we do it on trust.
We just give money and say, we trust you.
And it's a beautiful thing to do.
And then we also help corporations volunteer with these organizations across the country.
So a lot of good work done there.
Oh my gosh, that's amazing.
What do you think is, you know, one of the things about Cloud for Good is your outness as an individual can allow you to make good.
You know, you can really make an influence when you're authentic.
What do you, sort of two questions.
The first one, what are you most proud of in, with an impact from the Fluid Project?
What are you most proud of over these years of getting that up and running and sort of evolving and expanding it?
Um, I'm most proud of the inclusive space that we've created, the voices that we're amplifying, the, the, the de-stigmatization of what beauty is of what self, of what, who you can be.
So we've created a space of fluid, regardless of your gender, your orientation, your race, your body size, ethnicity, ability, uh, faith.
that there's a place for you to fluid.
That is a welcoming place for all people.
And we really try to create a community of like -minded people who are emboldened to go out to make change for good.
And we use our platform.
I use my platform to open up doors and then to bring the team in to do the good work that they do.
So my team calls me the Trojan horse.
They push me in because of how I look and who I am.
love it.
I just feel like every day I wake up and I'm not kidding when I say this, that I'm so grateful for the life I have, the every, every decision I've made that's led me up to this point, every experience that I've had that has led me up to this point, that every single day when I look at my calendar, I go, wow, I get to do good work.
I get to travel to corporations and speak to senior leadership.
I get to, you know, be a keynote speaker at conferences, I get to advocate on this space of inclusion.
And that includes not exclusively queer people, but also the intersection of all these other identities.
And ultimately, my goal is to break apart societal constructs and ideas around what it is to be male or female, what it is to be gay or straight, to just like...
break it apart and say a gay man is not this way, that there's other ways to be gay, just like there is different ways to be a straight man.
And once we break that apart, we allow men to find more of their feminine attributes and same thing with women too.
So just about breaking apart this outdated colonial idea of what it is to be male or female and any other identity.
Yeah.
Well, and Rob, congratulations and thank you to you and your team for sure.
And, you know, one of the things that we talk about on Cloud for Good is a lot of folks that listen are, you know, they're new to the workforce.
They're, they're navigating sort of figuring out what this is going to look like for them.
How do I show up?
And, you know, as you describe fluid and you describe this, free, inclusive, accepting world, you know, a lot of employees out there, as you well know, certainly, as you're on your visits to companies and doing training, I'm sure you're running into this.
What advice do you have for folks as they're navigating this?
Because environments in the corporate world are not always accepting or aren't always sort of ready.
So what advice do you have for folks that are thinking about coming out or being more authentic, or maybe even it's an ally who's thinking, I'd like to help out.
I'd like to create a safer space for people in our work environment.
It's a great question and there's no one right answer.
There's lots of different answers.
I would say to first of all, first of all, be comfortable with yourself.
You starts there, your validation because someone may not accept you, but you're deep inside.
You know who you are and it's right who you are and to find people in the company who you can trust and talk to because not everybody you can trust and talk to, you know, Your stat even shows almost half of queer people hide their identities at work.
And you know, what happens when you people hide their identity and some of them I think are just our understanding that who can I trust and not trust?
You know, that there's a there's there's this like, but sometimes we're wrong.
Sometimes we're right.
But we know that whether or not any time of any type of phobia is overt or not, it could be very subtle.
Could be just that you don't get that promotion.
You don't get this opportunity.
but to find mentors to help guide you.
And I think that allies can really step in too, and to be an ally to a young queer person, and somebody who's gay, somebody who's trans, somebody who's, especially the intersection.
Once you get to the intersection of being queer and a person of color, there's lots of challenges navigating that.
So I just say, lean in and help people out who are young on their career and on their journey.
And on your journey yourself, find people who you can trust and help you navigate the process.
And then once you're inside, maybe you join the employee resource group, and then you start to work out what does education look like inside the company?
How do you educate people, you know, throughout the company?
I think that's one of the things we do is help employee resource groups bring in full representation.
Cause sometimes employee resource groups are just people who look like you and I.
There are white gay men, white gay women who are in their forties and fifties.
Right.
full representation?
And if you can't do it yourself in your company, start to think about hiring and then hire people from the outside to come in and to speak and educate.
And know that your voice matters.
Like you can go in and say, I'd like to know to the CEO, like I looked at our board of directors and there's no queer representation on our board.
Like, why is that?
I mean, I think it's okay to ask these questions, you know, and to have that confidence that, you know, you can make the change.
Once you're in a position of influence, you can do it.
That's right.
Well, and I think those themes continue to be reinforced, I think, through these conversations of, you know, show up, do your job.
And I think also sort of, as others have said, sort of seek your people, you know, seek folks you can trust, seek folks, seek smoke, you know, and create that.
And it is there.
And then I love your advice of, and go ask for it, go have a conversation.
There's absolutely no harm in that.
And it may be scary.
And certainly you need to, you know, ensure your you're secure and you're okay.
There's no sort of danger, of course, but it's okay to have those conversations.
Go and have them.
have found that if you are fearless, you know, and sometimes I think that the person who's got, maybe it's a man who's got a wife and three kids going through school may not be fearless because he can't afford to like, you know, I think, and sometimes as queer people, maybe we don't have a traditional family or relate, you know, sometimes we have the security of two incomes, no kid that...
We can be fearless and your fearlessness will be appreciated by leadership.
They'll say, wow, listen to this person who's speaking the truth and whether I want to hear it or not, they're fearless enough to come in.
And I think it's that gamble has worked for me my entire life because I have had really solid relationships with leaders because of my truth, because of one, I'm really good at my job to your point earlier, but also I'm saying what other people won't say.
And maybe.
begins the process of them thinking differently.
Well, and taking the time to say those things.
And I think, you know, my experience, Rob is often more often than not, the conversation you have is enlightening to the other person.
So I think often we think there's a, you know, a negative or cruel intention, if you will.
And often it is lack of education, lack of exposure, lack of knowledge.
And so having the courage to have that conversation I have found results in.
a deeper, stronger relationship with that individual, an exchange of knowledge and experiences that helps you move things forward.
I think there's just a real fear of what could happen.
And I think more often than not, it's positive.
I think so you have to, you do have to be willing to take that risk.
That's for sure.
And the risk in, you know, I have found that every time I'm speaking to someone in power, someone in influence that they're a human too, that maybe they haven't thought about something.
And, but you also speak to them as a human, you know, I, everyone I know, whether they're my boss or somebody who works with me, I know their spouse's name or their partner's name or their pet's name.
I know their kids names.
I know about their lives.
So you're.
you develop a personal relationship with someone and then you can start to have these conversations.
So it's not like, you know, out of the, out of like, but you, you treat them like a human being and they'll respond with you as a human being as well.
That's right.
And I think these, the conversations with executives and folks in a position of power kind of leads me to another question around, you know, you are working with corporations, you've been a part of them as an employee and you know, through the years, what advice would you now with all of this, this knowledge you have, what advice would you give to corporations?
So for folks, that are listening to Club for Good now that are part of their DENI program, they're in HR, they're executives.
What advice would you give companies?
Where do they start to, or what are maybe some of the key things they should focus on to create more inclusive spaces, to create an environment for LGBTQ people to thrive?
What advice would you give us if they're starting this journey?
Yeah, I would say to start, create a formal process, an employee resource, ARG, to create a formalized organization where there's a corporate sponsorship, there's some structure.
You know, it's not just about representation, but it's also about inside, but it's also for the consumer too.
How are you ensuring that the consumer is having a good experience if they identify as queer?
And to work with other resource groups to focus on the intersectionality of the groups as well.
And so it's important to have a formalized process where you can come with strategies and ideas, have a sponsor and get in front of leadership and make cases.
And then you're also becoming an advisory board.
But also I would say, understand your shortcomings.
If you don't have anyone who's trans in your team, how do you bring that voice?
Do you educate yourself or do you bring an outside person in to speak about that?
And.
It's just really good for business.
And the other thing I would say to any leader right now, who's hearing about a backlash in DP &I about a fear of being, you know, somebody who's a, who was a evolved, woken, you know, quotes company that this is still the right thing to do for business.
That companies who are inclusive, who will recruit better talent, will retain better talent and will offer a customer experience that is.
It is business additive.
It's not just about checking off a do the right box.
It's about doing more business in a healthy way.
Yeah.
Well, and it's, I think to your point, it's that checkbox has been checked.
Is DE &I good for business?
Yes.
Is allowing your employees, all of them to show up who they are and to be able to contribute authentically, does that help and grow business?
Check.
I mean, there's so that that's proven.
And I think it's, but to your point, universities throwing out admission criteria and all these things happening.
Um, put a challenge to it.
That's, that's for sure.
And it's funny.
Somebody said, why don't white straight guys have an employee resource group?
And somebody said, cause you have for the last hundred years have had the really the most exclusive employee resource group.
And so now it's time for other communities to step in.
But I'll tell you a great story, you know, as a, as a straight passing, a gay man, and as somebody who was in a leadership position at Macy's when we formed employee resource groups.
One of the things that I did when they were asking for executive sponsors, I chose women of color because there were no women of color.
Although I was the only queer person that I could have obviously led the LGBTQ ERG, but I chose women of color.
And in the process, I grew a lot and they had an advocate because the highest turnover was men of black men and black women were the highest turnover in the company.
And after 18 months of sitting through these meetings, they said, Rob, they closed the door and they said, can we tell you, we trust you.
Can you, we tell you what racism is like in this company?
And it was so subtle and the nuances were so small, but it was so painful.
And so we began the process of addressing that.
And I just think it's like something that as I was not the person that would have been naturally selected.
So I encourage people who are allies to lead in and be the executive sponsor.
and you'll grow a lot in the process too.
right.
That's great advice.
And Rob, two more questions.
One, you know, you even talking with your fluid foundation and otherwise your own philanthropy as well, you know, a lot of organizations, you know, a lot of different outlets.
Oh, hold on.
I am getting a reconnect.
Hold on.
There we go.
Huh, anyway.
Okay, I'll start over.
So Rob, I've got two final questions and one of them, given your experience working with a lot of organizations, your example of giving money to organizations with your fluid foundation and otherwise, what are some resources that you might offer to folks who are listening to Clout for Good that may help them on their journey of exploration and, and.
becoming more authentic themselves.
It's a great question.
I do think resources, you can look inside your own company for resources.
We talked about that.
Resources are joining a nonprofit and getting to know folks in other industries.
I think that's a great resource.
You know, getting involved in community and give back.
I think that anyone really young can go to the Fluids website.
It's not just about selling product.
It's also resources for every identity under the queer umbrella.
And.
And the other thing I would just recommend is people find mentors and create strong mentorships and look and nurture those mentors.
And those are the resources that I would recommend.
I still, I would just went to a reunion in Florida for the Burdines reunion and my mentors just, I got to see about 20 of them and thank them.
But I think that each once a year, each once a year, I call up all my mentors and say, thank you.
And how much they've meant to me.
So.
Find those people, nurture those relationships and continue them and carry them forward.
That's amazing.
I think this calling your mentors once a year, there's a piece of advice.
I love it.
That is fantastic.
it's so wonderful.
A lot of retired and, um, it's just so nice just to continue to, to share in gratitude and to look back at, uh, for me, uh, you know, 35, almost 40 year long career and just continue to find those people and say, thank you.
You meant a lot to me and checking it.
How, how are you doing?
Like, how are you, you know, and checking how they are.
I think that a lot of times, and now, and now it's my turn to be a mentor.
No, I'm having.
30 people from Macy's over who I had under my division and just continuing to nurture those relationships both ways.
That's amazing.
Impressive.
My, my last question, Rob is I ask everyone this, that's, that's a guest is you're hosting a clout for good, if you will dinner party, you're going to have some folks over because you've just shared a lot of things or, you know, your, your mentors and other folks you've talked about.
Um, you definitely, this conversation will inspire folks.
I think folks will definitely be, and I encourage them to visit fluid.
And, um, so.
I like to ask folks that are on the show, who would you invite to a Clout for Good dinner party if you were organizing one?
What few people that have inspired you along the way who are from the community, either here with us now or they have passed along, but who are some folks that you would want to have at that dinner party?
I'm going to have a dinner party where I say thank you.
And my dinner party is actually four people, if I can.
The first is a pair, it's Marsha P.
Johnson and Sylvia Rivera.
I wanna hear their stories, I wanna say thank you for helping lead the queer revolution and say I'm sorry that the gay men turned their backs on you and say thank you for what you did.
And that's the first.
The second would be Harvey Milk.
I also want to say thank you for what you've done and the taking a bullet for us, you know, and being the first.
And the fourth one would be David Mixner, who is my mentor.
I get a little emotional right now, who just passed away a few weeks ago and having back again to say thank you one more time.
Yeah.
amazing.
And Rob, I didn't have the honor to go to his funeral, but I know you were a huge part of it.
And I have read so many wonderful things about how he was honored and what you did to contribute to that.
So sorry for your loss, but I also want to thank you for that honor that you gave him.
It sounded like it was really beautiful.
So that's great.
I was blessed to, you know, spend a decade with him, so close to him.
And he taught me so much about how to be a man, to live with principles, to also suffer at times because of your principles, but know that the arc of justice is long and the fight is never over.
So David taught me a lot.
He's actually, his face is staring at me right there at his painting.
I love it.
And I, and, and, and, and coincidentally right here to my left, I have an original Harvey milk campaign poster in my living room that that is, that is someone I would invite.
So we'd, we'd be able to add someone else to the list for sure.
Well, Rob, I love it.
I love it.
That would be fantastic.
Well, Rob, listen, thank you for all you do with fluid and with you for the contributions you make personally.
So first of all, thank you for that.
Thank you for taking the time to be on cloud for good.
I know folks are going to get a lot out of our conversation and thank you for the time.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you for the platform you've created.
You are making a difference too.
Thank you.
And go everyone, go be your authentic selves.
Go be your authentic selves.
Yes, loud and proud.
And if you, someone who's close to you doesn't love you because of who you are, there's a lot of other arms that are open to receive you.
You're perfect.
Yeah.
that, to my listeners, thanks to you as well for joining today.
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I hope this episode motivates you to use your Clout for Good and to make a difference in the workplace.
Thanks for joining.