WEBVTT 00:00:02.702 --> 00:00:04.123 Hello everyone and welcome. 00:00:04.123 --> 00:00:13.810 Clout for Good is a bi-weekly podcast that showcases personal and powerful conversations with prominent LGBTQ plus executives who are out in the workplace. 00:00:14.051 --> 00:00:24.777 The conversations are meant to create a supportive community and inspire LGBTQ plus people, their employers and allies to build equity and inclusion in the workplace. 00:00:24.878 --> 00:00:29.929 Today I'm honored to welcome a true trailblazer, Alaina Kupak. 00:00:29.929 --> 00:00:43.499 Elena is currently the executive director of portfolio strategy and analytics at Gilead sciences, where she leads the company's portfolio strategy for the virology and inflammation therapeutic areas. 00:00:43.560 --> 00:00:51.725 Before joining Gilead, Elena was with Pfizer and held roles in marketing, market access, sales, and sales leadership. 00:00:52.125 --> 00:00:56.909 Elena is the founder and president of grace, a nonpartisan communications and public. 00:00:56.909 --> 00:01:02.771 policy organization focused on challenging the negative narrative of the transgender community. 00:01:02.972 --> 00:01:22.361 She's written numerous op-eds, has appeared on several national media outlets, and was featured in the first nationally aired transgender awareness ad depicting her being denied the use of a woman's restroom, which aired on Fox News immediately before Donald Trump's acceptance speech in 2016. 00:01:24.682 --> 00:01:36.534 She worked with the U S department of justice, serving as one of only two named witnesses in the United States versus the state of North Carolina in the bathroom bill case. 00:01:36.835 --> 00:01:43.362 Elena graduated from North Carolina state university, and she also has served in the U S Navy. 00:01:43.602 --> 00:01:45.805 So Elena, welcome to the show. 00:01:46.177 --> 00:01:47.423 Thank you, David. 00:01:47.507 --> 00:01:48.896 So grateful to be here. 00:01:49.829 --> 00:01:51.772 Such a impressive opening. 00:01:51.772 --> 00:01:58.480 Thank you so much for all that you're doing for the community and for all the courage you've put forward to be out there. 00:01:58.480 --> 00:02:07.572 Be out there not only in the workplace, which we'll talk about, but also being out there in the public eye and on media and within your new organization. 00:02:07.572 --> 00:02:08.532 So thank you. 00:02:08.772 --> 00:02:14.597 Oh, well, it is a it's a paradox for sure. 00:02:15.157 --> 00:02:24.645 Like most people in my community, I think that I wish I could just live a quiet life and nobody would know that I have an interesting medical history. 00:02:24.645 --> 00:02:31.230 But unfortunately, the political powers that be have decided to make our community of a political football. 00:02:31.230 --> 00:02:31.954 So, yeah. 00:02:31.954 --> 00:02:32.935 Yeah, yeah. 00:02:32.935 --> 00:02:47.412 Well, let's start with the first thing that I ask all my guests is just to tell us about how you identify and maybe a little bit about when you decided to share your identity in the workplace. 00:02:47.412 --> 00:02:49.173 What was that like for you? 00:02:49.796 --> 00:02:56.280 Well, I identify as a woman and a lesbian, and I just so happen to be transgender. 00:02:56.280 --> 00:02:58.140 It's a tiny part of my medical history. 00:02:58.140 --> 00:03:00.181 It doesn't define me in any way. 00:03:00.181 --> 00:03:04.282 People in my daily life don't see me as anything other than a woman. 00:03:05.524 --> 00:03:11.425 You know, and so, this one is having my nails done recently and somebody was talking about their spouse. 00:03:11.425 --> 00:03:13.826 I said, my spouse, and she said, what does he do? 00:03:13.826 --> 00:03:15.388 I said, actually, it's a she. 00:03:15.467 --> 00:03:16.487 And so. 00:03:17.824 --> 00:03:25.667 But I became visible, I publicly transitioned in 2013, privately in 2012. 00:03:26.766 --> 00:03:33.109 And it was at that point that I just came to a point that I couldn't live my life inauthentically any longer. 00:03:33.109 --> 00:03:42.171 I really had a choice to make of choosing to live or no, or unfortunately a dark alternative that many of my community oftentimes face. 00:03:42.171 --> 00:03:44.588 And so I have. 00:03:44.588 --> 00:03:46.992 three amazing sons that I love incredibly. 00:03:46.992 --> 00:03:49.717 I wanted to make sure I could be here to love and support them. 00:03:49.717 --> 00:03:56.627 And so that's when the whole sort of climbing the mountain came to be, so to speak. 00:03:56.774 --> 00:03:57.313 Yeah. 00:03:57.313 --> 00:04:02.118 Well, tell us a little bit about that timeframe. 00:04:02.299 --> 00:04:13.491 Once you had made those decisions for yourself to transition, tell us about what that process was like to think about and to approach your workplace. 00:04:13.491 --> 00:04:16.252 And how did you handle that? 00:04:16.821 --> 00:04:23.624 You know, back when I transitioned, it was, I call it, it was the pre-Kaitlyn era of our community. 00:04:24.704 --> 00:04:36.471 People like Laverne Cox were visible, Janet Mock was visible, but it was, I'd say 95% of people had no idea what it meant to be transgender. 00:04:36.672 --> 00:04:40.194 And personally, I didn't know what was to be on the other side. 00:04:40.194 --> 00:04:42.274 It was kind of like walking into the abyss. 00:04:42.274 --> 00:04:44.696 I wasn't sure I had... 00:04:44.829 --> 00:05:01.802 very real concerns over whether I'd be able to keep my job, whether or not I would have to change roles, because at that time I was leading a sales organization in the Southeast part of the US that covered Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Virginia, not exactly a progressive hotbed of states. 00:05:03.303 --> 00:05:06.326 I wasn't sure what was gonna be waiting for me there. 00:05:06.326 --> 00:05:16.416 And it was a very anxious time in my life and I had a great therapist that was by my side through all of that. 00:05:16.416 --> 00:05:21.377 And for me, it was just trying to have to, having to take it one day at a time. 00:05:21.538 --> 00:05:25.139 And, you know, I had an anxiety attack. 00:05:25.139 --> 00:05:26.620 I'd never had one of those before. 00:05:26.620 --> 00:05:31.880 And really, I think the best advice I was given was, you can't swallow the whole apple at once. 00:05:31.880 --> 00:05:43.985 You've just got to face what's in front of you and focus on the next step in front of you without being overwhelmed by everything that lies ahead that you will have little control over. 00:05:43.985 --> 00:06:04.093 And so that's really the approach that I took was just trying to, you know, didn't know what was going to happen when I showed up back at work in January of 2013, um, as who I am now and who I've always been, wasn't sure how I would be received by the people I worked with, by my boss, by anyone. 00:06:04.093 --> 00:06:06.894 And, um, somehow I've made it. 00:06:06.894 --> 00:06:13.555 And, um, you know, I'm here to tell you that there is another side and it's. 00:06:13.821 --> 00:06:18.567 It's amazing and it's difficult, but so worthwhile. 00:06:18.942 --> 00:06:27.505 Well, and tell us a little bit about, you know, that probably that year of January of 2013 and beyond. 00:06:27.505 --> 00:06:40.833 Tell us a little bit about, you know, I think some members of the LGBTQ plus community, sometimes there aren't visual and physical identification. 00:06:40.833 --> 00:06:43.574 And as you transition, there there's a change. 00:06:43.574 --> 00:06:50.365 And so tell us a little bit about, you know, Were people asking questions? 00:06:50.365 --> 00:07:04.550 Did you proactively, it sounds like you very smartly worked with a therapist and I love the one day at a time, certainly recommendation because you really can't do everything all at once as much as you'd like to rip it off and be done. 00:07:04.550 --> 00:07:06.411 It's not ever really done. 00:07:06.411 --> 00:07:10.192 But tell us a little bit about maybe were people asking questions? 00:07:10.192 --> 00:07:15.132 Did you handle that a certain way to sort of get ahead of it, if you will? 00:07:15.132 --> 00:07:16.572 How did that unfold? 00:07:17.249 --> 00:07:26.533 You know, I took the approach of understanding that people had no idea about what I was going through. 00:07:26.533 --> 00:07:42.240 And I tried to create a safe, welcoming environment to make people feel at ease and to be able to ask questions and to be able to understand and be in a safe place and not have to... 00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:48.824 to wait on every word or be worried about making the wrong statement or the wrong comment or using the wrong pronoun. 00:07:48.903 --> 00:07:54.226 For me, I felt that one, that's sort of who I am. 00:07:54.226 --> 00:07:55.767 It's about helping others understand. 00:07:55.767 --> 00:08:04.713 But two, my experience is that it also made people less threatened and less challenged by what they were experiencing. 00:08:04.713 --> 00:08:11.036 So they knew me as somebody different before and were experiencing me a totally different way. 00:08:11.817 --> 00:08:19.843 you know, I had my own journey to go through to accept myself, and they had to go through their own journey to identify me in a different way. 00:08:19.843 --> 00:08:38.298 And just, I think, for me, giving people permission to be in that space and to not feel like they were going to say something wrong or do something wrong or ask the wrong question, I think made it easier, as I've been told from people around me, it made it easier for them to really accept me. 00:08:38.298 --> 00:08:39.879 And the... 00:08:39.880 --> 00:08:44.643 One of the most amazing things was, I'll always remember the team that I led at the time. 00:08:45.484 --> 00:08:51.986 Yeah, I think that there was obviously some nervousness and hesitation seeing me in a new gender presenting to them. 00:08:51.986 --> 00:09:00.511 And they said, after like the first hour, it was like not even an issue because I was so much more comfortable in my skin. 00:09:00.511 --> 00:09:08.316 I was so much, it was just so obvious to them that like, okay, you know, that's... 00:09:08.673 --> 00:09:10.774 That's the person I used to know, but that's Elena. 00:09:10.774 --> 00:09:12.136 And she's wonderful. 00:09:12.136 --> 00:09:16.522 And so I think that was really affirming for me to hear that from them. 00:09:16.522 --> 00:09:18.423 That was so obvious. 00:09:18.423 --> 00:09:28.956 And, you know, it gave me hope that I just had to kind of continue on that path forward and just be true to who I am and give people that permission to be where they are. 00:09:30.153 --> 00:09:31.054 I love that. 00:09:31.054 --> 00:09:51.530 I think it is such a balance between, as you said, as we started our conversation, wanting to sort of live your life and enjoy your life in peace, and then also opening up your life and being vulnerable and being able to share. 00:09:51.932 --> 00:10:04.267 I too have taken a very similar path, always in my career and my personal life, I'm choosing and I know it's not right for everyone, but I'm choosing. 00:10:04.287 --> 00:10:08.107 I am open to questions and conversations. 00:10:08.107 --> 00:10:11.808 I want to make sure that folks can feel comfortable. 00:10:11.808 --> 00:10:15.950 And it's a balance because I know a lot of people are, I, I don't want these questions. 00:10:15.950 --> 00:10:16.750 I don't want this. 00:10:16.750 --> 00:10:18.770 I want people to go do the work. 00:10:18.770 --> 00:10:21.011 I want people to understand. 00:10:21.011 --> 00:10:37.537 And I think there's a place for all of that, but I think it's really, I have found, I, I was on the board of GLSEN, the Gay Lesbian Straight Education Network that works to prevent bullying and harassment of LGBTQ students in schools. 00:10:37.658 --> 00:10:51.269 And I think one of the biggest insights in our research is that teachers don't want this happening in their classroom, but the biggest fear is they're not sure what to say. 00:10:51.894 --> 00:11:02.681 And, you know, being able to create a safe and affirming and open forum for bullying and harassment, I think the response is simply, it's just not accepted in my classroom. 00:11:02.681 --> 00:11:07.724 But I think being able to have these conversations and open that up and we don't all have the answers. 00:11:07.724 --> 00:11:12.567 You know, I remember coming out and telling my family, I'm not sure what it's like to be gay either. 00:11:12.567 --> 00:11:16.629 So we'll, we'll figure this out and we'll have a conversation. 00:11:17.018 --> 00:11:18.619 no, exactly. 00:11:19.019 --> 00:11:26.405 And one of the funniest experiences I had is when I went to buy a new vehicle for the first time and, you know, they pulled my credit. 00:11:26.405 --> 00:11:29.928 And the salesperson came out and he said, well, I'm really confused here. 00:11:29.928 --> 00:11:34.192 I mean, your credit report says that you're somebody different. 00:11:34.192 --> 00:11:37.735 And I said, well, that's me. 00:11:38.775 --> 00:11:42.499 And you could see like his head spinning in front of me. 00:11:42.538 --> 00:11:43.960 He said, what? 00:11:44.168 --> 00:11:50.991 He said, have you had like all the surgery like he pointed at my private parks. 00:11:51.052 --> 00:12:01.798 And that's one thing that you should not ask people is around what kind of surgeries they've had or gender is not defined by what's between our legs or what's not between our legs. 00:12:02.058 --> 00:12:06.380 And I said, in the moment I was just so thrown off, I said, had it all. 00:12:08.202 --> 00:12:10.364 But it's just, I think. 00:12:11.476 --> 00:12:18.919 going through life, having those experiences where you're just kind of caught off guard, like when people, you throw them a curve ball, it's been interesting. 00:12:19.090 --> 00:12:19.350 Yeah. 00:12:19.350 --> 00:12:26.515 And I think so much of it, one of the things that I've learned over the years is so much of it is I think about to your point of talk of your team. 00:12:26.515 --> 00:12:29.918 And during that time, it's about exposure. 00:12:30.019 --> 00:12:40.126 Um, many people may not have talked with a gay man and then I come out and they say, Oh, well, I know David and I remember him from high school and he's this person and that person. 00:12:40.126 --> 00:12:41.889 And, and then you sort of move along. 00:12:41.889 --> 00:12:46.753 So some of it is a little bit about exposure, unfortunately, just that people haven't had it. 00:12:46.753 --> 00:12:55.270 Well, and One of the things I wanted to talk about was you transitioned personally. 00:12:55.270 --> 00:13:01.373 You have just told us about coming to face that with your colleagues and your employees. 00:13:01.373 --> 00:13:11.735 As listeners will recall from the intro, you've made a really specific decision to come out publicly and even in a bigger way. 00:13:11.735 --> 00:13:22.357 I didn't mention this, but the media outlets are media outlets and you've written op-eds in very, very significant publications. 00:13:22.357 --> 00:13:39.152 And obviously being in an ad before ex-president Trump gives his acceptance speeches is quite a significant amount of exposure and that's certainly driving a lot of change in attitudes and behaviors. 00:13:39.152 --> 00:13:46.001 And hopefully also, I think from your perspective with your organization, with policy and with other, other. 00:13:46.001 --> 00:13:48.602 significant elements of what needs to be done. 00:13:48.602 --> 00:13:50.784 But tell us about how did that happen? 00:13:50.784 --> 00:13:57.269 How did you go from here I am, this is me, I'm at work to I'm actually a national voice. 00:13:57.269 --> 00:14:02.932 I'm going to participate in this and do more and do more for the community. 00:14:03.349 --> 00:14:19.903 You know, it was not, living in North Carolina, which is actually my home state where I grew up, I met my now wife, we were then dating, and I was living with her in Chapel Hill when they passed the now famous HB2 bathroom bill. 00:14:20.644 --> 00:14:29.171 And I was connected to some people that on the periphery of what was taking place there. 00:14:29.572 --> 00:14:35.390 And I felt like, other people were trying to define what it meant to be transgender. 00:14:35.811 --> 00:14:46.697 And I felt like there's a whole generation of people, younger people that shouldn't have to wait until they're in their midlife to transition like I did. 00:14:46.839 --> 00:14:51.162 We now have better ability to understand what it means to be transgender. 00:14:51.162 --> 00:14:52.702 There's healthcare available. 00:14:52.702 --> 00:14:54.183 There's counseling available. 00:14:54.183 --> 00:14:55.664 It shouldn't be stigmatized. 00:14:55.664 --> 00:15:01.427 And I felt like, you know, other people were trying to steal the narrative and make it something bad. 00:15:02.065 --> 00:15:23.052 And that really crushed me personally, because if people have the opportunity to know who they are early in life and get the mental health that they need and get the support that they need and socially transition earlier in life, then they don't have to go through all the heartache and shame and guilt that I went through. 00:15:23.453 --> 00:15:26.514 And so I didn't know if I was gonna be public or not. 00:15:26.514 --> 00:15:30.649 I was invited to attend a rally in the state. 00:15:30.649 --> 00:15:34.530 and State Capitol Raleigh the day after the bill passed. 00:15:34.530 --> 00:15:38.553 And I went and they asked me if I'd be willing to say something. 00:15:39.215 --> 00:15:44.898 And I decided to speak at that event and then just one thing led to another, led to another. 00:15:45.119 --> 00:15:53.825 But what has driven me throughout all of this is, is that there is so much medical evidence for people who are transgender. 00:15:53.924 --> 00:15:59.227 There is no question if you talk to any respected medical professional. 00:15:59.232 --> 00:16:03.913 There's mountains of evidence that this is not something that people make a choice about. 00:16:04.195 --> 00:16:08.875 And then, you know, there's this misconception that children are having surgeries. 00:16:08.875 --> 00:16:10.277 That's a falsehood. 00:16:10.277 --> 00:16:12.498 That just does not happen. 00:16:12.618 --> 00:16:20.900 You know, you can take puberty blockers to stop puberty from happening when then when you get to the age of consent, have surgery. 00:16:21.402 --> 00:16:29.203 But if you don't take those puberty blockers, you're going to have to do what I did and what everybody in midlife does is go through all these surgeries to reverse your puberty. 00:16:29.212 --> 00:16:36.677 So in many ways, these puberty blockers are surgery sparing until they can get to the age of consent and then get the surgeries that they need. 00:16:36.778 --> 00:16:48.566 And I feel like, you know, that's why I've chosen to be visible from that point until now is, I don't want other people to try and portray our community as something that it's not. 00:16:48.566 --> 00:16:52.388 We are just people who want to exist side by side with them. 00:16:52.528 --> 00:17:03.754 Our gender is no different than anybody else's and why it matters to somebody else is only because The fight for marriage equality was overturned by the Supreme Court in 2015. 00:17:04.214 --> 00:17:11.097 And all these organizations had to aim their hate and animus on another community to try and re-litigate the issue. 00:17:11.218 --> 00:17:16.059 And they tried to pick the weakest part of the LGBT community, the transgender community, the least visible. 00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:22.442 And if I don't stand up and say, this is what it looks like to be transgender, then they get to define it. 00:17:22.643 --> 00:17:27.223 And I think that most people in our community don't wanna be visible. 00:17:27.505 --> 00:17:40.711 And so it's this paradox of, do we let ourselves be defined by others or do we choose to stand up and say, this is who we are and sit across from me and put a name and a face with what we're talking about here. 00:17:41.230 --> 00:17:42.329 That's right. 00:17:42.470 --> 00:17:43.430 And you're right. 00:17:43.451 --> 00:17:48.292 It's hard enough as it is to your point of not everyone in the community wants to be visible. 00:17:48.292 --> 00:17:51.213 That's getting to that point we've made a couple of times. 00:17:51.213 --> 00:17:56.935 Well, and this work you've done has led you to form an organization called Great. 00:17:56.935 --> 00:17:58.237 So tell us a little bit about that. 00:17:58.237 --> 00:18:10.182 It sounds like this activism that you sort of this national platform that you were given and you accepted and took the challenge on has motivated you to do. 00:18:10.182 --> 00:18:13.059 Even more, tell us a little bit about grace. 00:18:13.144 --> 00:18:19.470 Yeah, I think it's a natural progression in the things I just described. 00:18:19.470 --> 00:18:25.915 I was on the board of the Transgender Legal Defense and Education Fund for eight years and seven of those years where I was the board chair or co-chair. 00:18:26.336 --> 00:18:33.701 And there's not a lot of transgender led nonprofits and there's so much work to be done. 00:18:34.282 --> 00:18:45.413 And until DEF is what the acronym for that organization was, does amazing impact litigation work, which means When bad laws are impacting the community, how do you basically challenge those laws and get them overturned? 00:18:45.413 --> 00:18:51.474 And then you have another organization, National Center for Transgender Equality, which focused on policy. 00:18:51.914 --> 00:19:06.818 And I felt like in my professional background, I spent three years leading Pfizer's legislative grassroots program, meaning I worked very closely with the federal lobbying team advisor and state lobbying team, worked on policy issues, met with many members of Congress and elected officials. 00:19:06.859 --> 00:19:10.880 I also led Pfizer's communications team for their largest business in the US. 00:19:11.113 --> 00:19:18.298 And I felt like we're in this time again, where others are trying to define us and there's no counter narrative. 00:19:18.538 --> 00:19:34.030 And there was an opportunity to fill that gap and really focus on middle America and focus on giving a name and a voice and a face to what it looks like to be transgender, to counter this anti-transgender narrative that's being put out there. 00:19:34.030 --> 00:19:39.635 And so it's kind of a culmination of my nonprofit experience, my professional experience. 00:19:39.635 --> 00:19:40.996 And again, trying to... 00:19:41.141 --> 00:19:45.241 since most people don't know what it looks like, to help them understand the issue. 00:19:45.241 --> 00:19:59.204 So they're hearing it in a nonpartisan, nonthreatening way that this is what it is instead of, you know, being people thinking that children are having genital mutilation. 00:19:59.204 --> 00:20:07.488 I'm sorry, but if a child has some sort of genital surgery, it's only because they were probably intersex and had to have something. 00:20:07.488 --> 00:20:18.986 And even nowadays, that is typically, and not ethical because nowadays the child should wait till there's the age of consent to correct those things that may be correcting. 00:20:18.986 --> 00:20:27.892 But if you don't hear that from somebody, you're gonna believe what you're being told by the other side without questioning it because you're not thinking about why are they saying that? 00:20:27.892 --> 00:20:29.853 What's their reason for saying that? 00:20:30.073 --> 00:20:33.596 You know, where's their money coming from to fund that organization? 00:20:33.596 --> 00:20:35.997 And what's their end game? 00:20:36.337 --> 00:20:41.232 And I felt like if we can help people see that This is what it means. 00:20:41.232 --> 00:20:47.179 We're your doctor, your neighbor, your lawyer, your healthcare provider, your first responders. 00:20:47.179 --> 00:20:48.460 We're everywhere around you. 00:20:48.460 --> 00:20:50.842 We always have been for centuries. 00:20:51.021 --> 00:20:53.864 We just choose not to be visible because it doesn't define us. 00:20:54.821 --> 00:21:04.968 Yeah, it's, it sounds like a lot of truth telling and you know, really sitting down at the table and having discussions and really making progress. 00:21:04.968 --> 00:21:15.834 I really, I like that, especially at this time with so much anti LGBTQ legislation on the table with such a divisive political environment in general, with a very contentious election ahead of us. 00:21:15.834 --> 00:21:20.096 It seems like it's perfect, perfect timing for, for grace, for sure. 00:21:20.096 --> 00:21:32.767 When Elena, when you think about it, you've had roles at some really large organizations and have experience in the nonprofit space as well. 00:21:33.407 --> 00:21:46.799 What advice would you give to LGBTQ folks or even allies supporting, but I guess mostly at folks who are identifying as LGBTQ plus in the workplace? 00:21:46.799 --> 00:21:48.300 They're thinking about... 00:21:48.726 --> 00:21:50.105 I'd like to show up differently. 00:21:50.105 --> 00:21:52.867 I'd like to show up more authentically. 00:21:53.028 --> 00:22:00.592 I know that there's something that I'm not delivering or able to become because I'm sort of holding myself back from being my authentic self. 00:22:00.673 --> 00:22:07.916 What advice would you give to employees that maybe they're new to the workforce and they're just figuring it out? 00:22:07.916 --> 00:22:22.374 One stat that I've mentioned several times on the podcast is 50% of LGBTQ identified employees fear that being their authentic self will hinder their ability to be promoted and have a successful career. 00:22:22.555 --> 00:22:23.737 So the fear is real. 00:22:23.737 --> 00:22:32.608 So what might you suggest as some recommendations on how to face that and how to move that forward if employees want to do so? 00:22:32.992 --> 00:22:48.984 I think that's a great question and I really appreciate you asking that, David, because I think it's a very real fear and I'd be lying if I said I didn't have challenges in the workplace when I transitioned and since that time too. 00:22:49.066 --> 00:22:57.112 And I think that you have to basically bifurcate your worlds in some ways, and that's not to hide who you are. 00:22:57.212 --> 00:23:01.455 But just like I was mentioning, my gender history doesn't define who I am. 00:23:02.141 --> 00:23:06.103 Our companies pay us to show up and do amazing work in the workplace. 00:23:06.103 --> 00:23:07.742 That's why they pay us. 00:23:08.183 --> 00:23:11.625 They don't show that we don't get paid to show up and be activists. 00:23:11.766 --> 00:23:14.386 We get paid to show up and do amazing work. 00:23:14.386 --> 00:23:20.851 And that's what we're going to be recognized for, compensated for, and rewarded for. 00:23:20.851 --> 00:23:30.596 So I think that my advice is don't confuse your identity with the work that you're doing at your job and expected to do. 00:23:30.772 --> 00:23:40.698 And you can show up in an authentic way and not hide the fact that I have a wife and I don't talk about my gender history because it's not relevant to my daily job. 00:23:40.758 --> 00:23:43.960 But if situations come up, I don't hide it either, right? 00:23:44.201 --> 00:23:50.943 And I think that's where people have to find that comfort level of what works best for them. 00:23:51.065 --> 00:23:57.621 And I think that if, in today's political environment, companies are very reticent. 00:23:57.621 --> 00:24:01.422 to get involved in things publicly on LGBT issues or any issues, right? 00:24:01.422 --> 00:24:03.182 There's been a backlash to that. 00:24:03.383 --> 00:24:08.845 And so, but I think that that's different than how you show up in your job. 00:24:09.105 --> 00:24:11.126 And just don't confuse the two things. 00:24:11.126 --> 00:24:14.988 And don't think that your job is to be an activist within your company. 00:24:14.988 --> 00:24:17.148 Be involved with your employee resource groups. 00:24:17.148 --> 00:24:21.411 Find your community of like people within your company because they're there. 00:24:21.411 --> 00:24:25.011 And you're gonna find a great support network to draw from there. 00:24:25.376 --> 00:24:27.897 And I think that's the beauty of it. 00:24:27.897 --> 00:24:37.203 But always keep in mind, you're there, your end of year review is gonna depend on the job that you did, nothing to do with your identity and how you identify. 00:24:37.203 --> 00:24:44.867 And if it is something different than that, then you have employee resources and human resources to talk to you about those issues. 00:24:45.546 --> 00:25:13.888 I think it's such good advice and I'll tell you, Elena, it's something that as I've had clout for good up and running for, you know, half a year now and I've had some really amazing discussions, there is one thing that I will say is the most consistent and maybe this is intuitive, maybe it isn't, but is my guess saying first and foremost, do your job. 00:25:13.953 --> 00:25:25.799 Do your job and do your job well and know that I love what you just said, which is at the end of the year, you're going to be rated on your performance in your job. 00:25:25.819 --> 00:25:41.949 And I, I think that it's bringing your whole self to work can often be misconstrued, I think, to some degree with, I love what you just said with activism and it's, it's everything and it's all or nothing. 00:25:41.949 --> 00:25:53.000 And And I think the reality, and I, I don't mean to say this to listeners and to folks out there to say, you know, the world isn't a perfect place, but the world isn't a perfect place. 00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:56.604 And we need to do the best we can and one, perform our job. 00:25:56.604 --> 00:26:01.087 Two, as you said, seek your people, seek those resources. 00:26:01.169 --> 00:26:05.914 And As you've just done and as you've just demonstrated, you can make a difference. 00:26:05.914 --> 00:26:10.882 You really can make a difference as, as you're able to, to navigate the workforce. 00:26:10.882 --> 00:26:16.848 If you're delivering on your job function and you're, you're improving the company's bottom line. 00:26:17.060 --> 00:26:17.744 Exactly. 00:26:17.744 --> 00:26:20.826 I think we're a thousand percent aligned in that way. 00:26:20.826 --> 00:26:21.905 Yeah, yeah. 00:26:21.905 --> 00:26:39.013 And, you know, one of the other things you've mentioned a few things, and certainly your organization, which please tell folks how to get in touch, is I also like to hear from my guests because of the real vast experience and network that folks have. 00:26:39.013 --> 00:26:43.175 What resources might you share with folks that are listening? 00:26:43.175 --> 00:26:47.616 They could be identifying as LGBTQ+, they could be allies. 00:26:47.857 --> 00:26:53.083 And of course, there are members of companies and organizations where they can help make a difference. 00:26:53.683 --> 00:27:02.333 What tools and resources for coming out or for understanding the community or for navigating might you suggest to folks that are listening? 00:27:02.893 --> 00:27:10.934 Well, I think that for any ally trying to understand, I still think PFLAG has some of the best resources. 00:27:10.934 --> 00:27:16.476 In fact, I had a meeting last week in Washington, DC with PFLAG and I was just singing their praises. 00:27:16.615 --> 00:27:24.958 Because I think that especially for allies and family members that might have somebody in their life that's transgender, they're trying to understand. 00:27:25.019 --> 00:27:28.579 PFLAG is gonna come at it from a pragmatic approach. 00:27:28.579 --> 00:27:32.201 And they know the questions that you're thinking, and they've got a great... 00:27:32.201 --> 00:27:35.580 resource guide to help you answer all of those questions that you have. 00:27:35.580 --> 00:27:38.521 So I always send people the P flag first and foremost. 00:27:39.903 --> 00:28:00.347 And I think that another I think really great pragmatic resource for understanding the transgender community is Aaron Reed has a substack, Aaron Reed in the Morning, that is unbiased, that really gets to the heart of the issues facing the community and really approaches them not from a... 00:28:01.244 --> 00:28:16.368 an activist perspective, but from a journalistic perspective and a factual based perspective, very much aligned with work that we're trying to do at the Gender Research Advisory Council on Education, which is trying to take the energy out of both sides. 00:28:16.368 --> 00:28:19.729 There's so much energy in the far left, there's so much energy in the far right. 00:28:19.910 --> 00:28:24.131 We're just trying to speak to the people in the middle and help them understand. 00:28:24.411 --> 00:28:27.631 And that's, you know, our website is grace-now.org. 00:28:29.372 --> 00:28:31.071 And really just trying to... 00:28:31.480 --> 00:28:38.741 source things and provide the resources that people can understand and then back check us on where the data comes from. 00:28:38.923 --> 00:29:00.107 And I think that's what's important is to try and weed through the rhetoric and understand the data and understand the issues in their entirety and understand that, you know, where does the bias come from in both arguments and try and seek that center ground that probably understands that there is bias on both sides. 00:29:00.107 --> 00:29:00.961 But Yeah. 00:29:00.961 --> 00:29:02.593 There still is merit in facts. 00:29:02.593 --> 00:29:03.738 Facts are still facts. 00:29:03.738 --> 00:29:07.159 Yeah, yeah, those are, they're great resources. 00:29:07.159 --> 00:29:10.461 I have a very personal connection to PFLAG. 00:29:10.461 --> 00:29:18.746 I came out myself in 1994 and was looking for resources on how do I bring my family along? 00:29:18.746 --> 00:29:24.808 And that year took my mom to the National PFLAG Conference and said, let's go, let's figure this out. 00:29:24.808 --> 00:29:34.986 She became a PFLAG chapter leader and eventually over time won a lifetime sort of for her work with PFLAG. 00:29:34.986 --> 00:29:37.727 And I too think it is an amazing organization. 00:29:37.727 --> 00:29:48.029 And I think such a community-based, local-based organization for its original effort of helping parents and friends, it really is helping the community. 00:29:48.029 --> 00:29:54.313 And I think in some places, it's the local meeting that folks in our community find and they go to. 00:29:54.313 --> 00:29:55.913 So I think it's such a great organization. 00:29:55.913 --> 00:29:57.102 I'll listen to it. 00:29:57.102 --> 00:29:59.442 to Aaron in the morning or read Aaron in the morning. 00:29:59.442 --> 00:30:00.403 I haven't done that yet. 00:30:00.403 --> 00:30:04.144 And certainly thanks for sharing your organization as well. 00:30:04.144 --> 00:30:17.667 So one last question, Elena, that oddly gets the most interaction on social media aside from the actual episodes than any other posts that I do. 00:30:17.667 --> 00:30:21.229 People love to hear the responses to this question. 00:30:21.229 --> 00:30:22.088 And it's... 00:30:22.346 --> 00:30:25.627 You're hosting a clout for good dinner party. 00:30:25.627 --> 00:30:30.010 You're going to invite some members of the LGBTQ community. 00:30:30.010 --> 00:30:45.740 And I think, you know, one of the ways that I frame this is we've just heard about your story and your background and folks know a little more about you and we'll certainly learn more as they seek the resources and look at some of the things that you've done in the community. 00:30:45.740 --> 00:30:46.401 But. 00:30:46.529 --> 00:30:56.414 Who sort of inspired you along the way, or who are some icons or mentors, or who are some folks from the community that you were to host a Clout for Good dinner party? 00:30:56.414 --> 00:31:01.096 Who are a few people that you would invite, and why might you want them at your table? 00:31:02.681 --> 00:31:06.982 I'll separate this into the living and the historical, if that's okay. 00:31:08.124 --> 00:31:14.948 I think living, I am so fortunate on the board of grace to have Jameson Green. 00:31:15.548 --> 00:31:25.334 Jameson is a just, I don't know what the word adequately describe Jameson's impact in the transgender community. 00:31:25.334 --> 00:31:28.996 The reason any of us have any healthcare coverage in the US for transgender. 00:31:29.057 --> 00:31:35.518 healthcare is because of Jameson's work in San Francisco, then with the human rights campaign and getting in the corporate equality index. 00:31:35.577 --> 00:31:42.839 Jameson is person one, which is also, he was one of the first people I invited to be a part of the Board of Grace and graciously accepted my invitation. 00:31:42.839 --> 00:31:50.162 You know, also through my work, I've been able to get to know Mara Keasling, and she founded the National Center for Transgender Equality. 00:31:50.362 --> 00:31:55.923 And Mara has dedicated her life to educating people and policymakers. 00:31:56.183 --> 00:31:58.844 And I think that... 00:31:58.868 --> 00:32:05.432 done amazing work and, you know, at a time that nobody was doing it and built a great organization. 00:32:07.012 --> 00:32:14.517 So that's one person from each, they, Mara identifies as she, her and Jameson as he, him. 00:32:14.777 --> 00:32:20.681 But then I think historically speaking, again, it goes back to something I said earlier, people think that being transgender is new. 00:32:20.681 --> 00:32:23.842 In the 1400s, there was Joan of Arc. 00:32:23.842 --> 00:32:26.403 Now we don't know if Joan of Arc was transgender or not. 00:32:26.763 --> 00:32:27.983 She definitely... 00:32:28.076 --> 00:32:39.584 cross-dressed, she presented in public as a male, she, you know, led amazing military campaigns and ultimately she was burned at the stake. 00:32:39.663 --> 00:32:47.328 She was also a devout Catholic and I'm Catholic and identify as Catholic despite some of the things going on at the Catholic Church. 00:32:47.609 --> 00:32:57.628 And I think that, you know, I would love to pick her brain to understand because she found a way to exist in the world. 00:32:57.628 --> 00:33:05.230 and challenged gender norms and was accepted for that and revered for that and ultimately paid the ultimate price for that. 00:33:05.230 --> 00:33:10.491 But I think that also goes back to people want to define us as being something new, some phenomenon. 00:33:10.571 --> 00:33:14.232 No, the percentage of us who exist in this world have always been the same. 00:33:14.232 --> 00:33:16.773 It's just now we have an ability to be visible. 00:33:16.773 --> 00:33:19.335 So now you're seeing visibility at a younger age. 00:33:19.335 --> 00:33:22.516 So people have to transition midlife, which is a beautiful thing. 00:33:22.516 --> 00:33:24.675 But we've always been here. 00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:35.695 And so I think that would make a really interesting conversation and I'm just fortunate enough to have worked with both Mara and with Seamus in my work that I do. 00:33:35.695 --> 00:33:38.834 And so hope that answers your question. 00:33:38.834 --> 00:33:39.534 It does. 00:33:39.534 --> 00:33:40.474 I love it. 00:33:40.474 --> 00:33:56.748 And as you know, I served at Visa as the co-chair of the employee resource group with Jameson and am very familiar with his impact, his work, his compassion, and his dedication. 00:33:56.748 --> 00:33:59.809 And so I share that same respect. 00:33:59.809 --> 00:34:08.916 And then coincidentally, Mara came to lead sort of a keynote speech, if you will, at a board meeting at GLSEN. 00:34:08.981 --> 00:34:14.523 And I was hugely impressed with her work and the organization. 00:34:14.963 --> 00:34:16.583 But I have not met Joan of Arc yet. 00:34:16.583 --> 00:34:20.385 So that one, that, that will be, that will be an interesting guest for sure. 00:34:20.385 --> 00:34:21.304 I love it. 00:34:22.065 --> 00:34:25.365 Well, Elena, thank you so much for your time today. 00:34:25.365 --> 00:34:29.786 Thank you once again for all the work that you do. 00:34:29.786 --> 00:34:37.429 It's been a real honor to have you on the podcast as you talk about these folks that you're impressed with. 00:34:37.481 --> 00:34:41.465 there will be a lot of people who are equally impressed with the work that you've done. 00:34:41.465 --> 00:34:45.728 So thanks for coming on and being a guest for Enclop for Good. 00:34:45.833 --> 00:34:46.574 No, thank you, Dave. 00:34:46.574 --> 00:34:48.177 And thank you for the work that you do. 00:34:48.177 --> 00:34:50.623 And, you know, visibility matters. 00:34:50.623 --> 00:34:53.771 And it's so amazing that you're doing this podcast. 00:34:53.771 --> 00:34:56.096 And thank you so much for your visibility. 00:34:56.114 --> 00:34:57.974 Yeah, of course. 00:34:58.115 --> 00:35:00.579 And to my listeners, thanks so much for joining today. 00:35:00.579 --> 00:35:04.744 Please tune in every other Wednesday for a new episode of Cloud for Good. 00:35:04.744 --> 00:35:10.650 Follow us on social media and visit cloudforgood.com to subscribe to our newsletter. 00:35:10.650 --> 00:35:17.137 I hope this episode motivates you to use your Cloud for Good to make a difference in your workplace.