Hello everyone and welcome.
Clout for Good is a bi-weekly podcast that showcases personal and powerful conversations with prominent LGBTQ plus executives who are out in the workplace.
The conversations are meant to create a supportive community and inspire LGBTQ plus people, their employers and allies to build equity and inclusion in the workplace.
Today I'm honored to welcome a true trailblazer, Alaina Kupak.
Elena is currently the executive director of portfolio strategy and analytics at Gilead sciences, where she leads the company's portfolio strategy for the virology and inflammation therapeutic areas.
Before joining Gilead, Elena was with Pfizer and held roles in marketing, market access, sales, and sales leadership.
Elena is the founder and president of grace, a nonpartisan communications and public.
policy organization focused on challenging the negative narrative of the transgender community.
She's written numerous op-eds, has appeared on several national media outlets, and was featured in the first nationally aired transgender awareness ad depicting her being denied the use of a woman's restroom, which aired on Fox News immediately before Donald Trump's acceptance speech in 2016.
She worked with the U S department of justice, serving as one of only two named witnesses in the United States versus the state of North Carolina in the bathroom bill case.
Elena graduated from North Carolina state university, and she also has served in the U S Navy.
So Elena, welcome to the show.
Thank you, David.
So grateful to be here.
Such a impressive opening.
Thank you so much for all that you're doing for the community and for all the courage you've put forward to be out there.
Be out there not only in the workplace, which we'll talk about, but also being out there in the public eye and on media and within your new organization.
So thank you.
Oh, well, it is a it's a paradox for sure.
Like most people in my community, I think that I wish I could just live a quiet life and nobody would know that I have an interesting medical history.
But unfortunately, the political powers that be have decided to make our community of a political football.
So, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, let's start with the first thing that I ask all my guests is just to tell us about how you identify and maybe a little bit about when you decided to share your identity in the workplace.
What was that like for you?
Well, I identify as a woman and a lesbian, and I just so happen to be transgender.
It's a tiny part of my medical history.
It doesn't define me in any way.
People in my daily life don't see me as anything other than a woman.
You know, and so, this one is having my nails done recently and somebody was talking about their spouse.
I said, my spouse, and she said, what does he do?
I said, actually, it's a she.
And so.
But I became visible, I publicly transitioned in 2013, privately in 2012.
And it was at that point that I just came to a point that I couldn't live my life inauthentically any longer.
I really had a choice to make of choosing to live or no, or unfortunately a dark alternative that many of my community oftentimes face.
And so I have.
three amazing sons that I love incredibly.
I wanted to make sure I could be here to love and support them.
And so that's when the whole sort of climbing the mountain came to be, so to speak.
Yeah.
Well, tell us a little bit about that timeframe.
Once you had made those decisions for yourself to transition, tell us about what that process was like to think about and to approach your workplace.
And how did you handle that?
You know, back when I transitioned, it was, I call it, it was the pre-Kaitlyn era of our community.
People like Laverne Cox were visible, Janet Mock was visible, but it was, I'd say 95% of people had no idea what it meant to be transgender.
And personally, I didn't know what was to be on the other side.
It was kind of like walking into the abyss.
I wasn't sure I had...
very real concerns over whether I'd be able to keep my job, whether or not I would have to change roles, because at that time I was leading a sales organization in the Southeast part of the US that covered Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Virginia, not exactly a progressive hotbed of states.
I wasn't sure what was gonna be waiting for me there.
And it was a very anxious time in my life and I had a great therapist that was by my side through all of that.
And for me, it was just trying to have to, having to take it one day at a time.
And, you know, I had an anxiety attack.
I'd never had one of those before.
And really, I think the best advice I was given was, you can't swallow the whole apple at once.
You've just got to face what's in front of you and focus on the next step in front of you without being overwhelmed by everything that lies ahead that you will have little control over.
And so that's really the approach that I took was just trying to, you know, didn't know what was going to happen when I showed up back at work in January of 2013, um, as who I am now and who I've always been, wasn't sure how I would be received by the people I worked with, by my boss, by anyone.
And, um, somehow I've made it.
And, um, you know, I'm here to tell you that there is another side and it's.
It's amazing and it's difficult, but so worthwhile.
Well, and tell us a little bit about, you know, that probably that year of January of 2013 and beyond.
Tell us a little bit about, you know, I think some members of the LGBTQ plus community, sometimes there aren't visual and physical identification.
And as you transition, there there's a change.
And so tell us a little bit about, you know, Were people asking questions?
Did you proactively, it sounds like you very smartly worked with a therapist and I love the one day at a time, certainly recommendation because you really can't do everything all at once as much as you'd like to rip it off and be done.
It's not ever really done.
But tell us a little bit about maybe were people asking questions?
Did you handle that a certain way to sort of get ahead of it, if you will?
How did that unfold?
You know, I took the approach of understanding that people had no idea about what I was going through.
And I tried to create a safe, welcoming environment to make people feel at ease and to be able to ask questions and to be able to understand and be in a safe place and not have to...
to wait on every word or be worried about making the wrong statement or the wrong comment or using the wrong pronoun.
For me, I felt that one, that's sort of who I am.
It's about helping others understand.
But two, my experience is that it also made people less threatened and less challenged by what they were experiencing.
So they knew me as somebody different before and were experiencing me a totally different way.
you know, I had my own journey to go through to accept myself, and they had to go through their own journey to identify me in a different way.
And just, I think, for me, giving people permission to be in that space and to not feel like they were going to say something wrong or do something wrong or ask the wrong question, I think made it easier, as I've been told from people around me, it made it easier for them to really accept me.
And the...
One of the most amazing things was, I'll always remember the team that I led at the time.
Yeah, I think that there was obviously some nervousness and hesitation seeing me in a new gender presenting to them.
And they said, after like the first hour, it was like not even an issue because I was so much more comfortable in my skin.
I was so much, it was just so obvious to them that like, okay, you know, that's...
That's the person I used to know, but that's Elena.
And she's wonderful.
And so I think that was really affirming for me to hear that from them.
That was so obvious.
And, you know, it gave me hope that I just had to kind of continue on that path forward and just be true to who I am and give people that permission to be where they are.
I love that.
I think it is such a balance between, as you said, as we started our conversation, wanting to sort of live your life and enjoy your life in peace, and then also opening up your life and being vulnerable and being able to share.
I too have taken a very similar path, always in my career and my personal life, I'm choosing and I know it's not right for everyone, but I'm choosing.
I am open to questions and conversations.
I want to make sure that folks can feel comfortable.
And it's a balance because I know a lot of people are, I, I don't want these questions.
I don't want this.
I want people to go do the work.
I want people to understand.
And I think there's a place for all of that, but I think it's really, I have found, I, I was on the board of GLSEN, the Gay Lesbian Straight Education Network that works to prevent bullying and harassment of LGBTQ students in schools.
And I think one of the biggest insights in our research is that teachers don't want this happening in their classroom, but the biggest fear is they're not sure what to say.
And, you know, being able to create a safe and affirming and open forum for bullying and harassment, I think the response is simply, it's just not accepted in my classroom.
But I think being able to have these conversations and open that up and we don't all have the answers.
You know, I remember coming out and telling my family, I'm not sure what it's like to be gay either.
So we'll, we'll figure this out and we'll have a conversation.
no, exactly.
And one of the funniest experiences I had is when I went to buy a new vehicle for the first time and, you know, they pulled my credit.
And the salesperson came out and he said, well, I'm really confused here.
I mean, your credit report says that you're somebody different.
And I said, well, that's me.
And you could see like his head spinning in front of me.
He said, what?
He said, have you had like all the surgery like he pointed at my private parks.
And that's one thing that you should not ask people is around what kind of surgeries they've had or gender is not defined by what's between our legs or what's not between our legs.
And I said, in the moment I was just so thrown off, I said, had it all.
But it's just, I think.
going through life, having those experiences where you're just kind of caught off guard, like when people, you throw them a curve ball, it's been interesting.
Yeah.
And I think so much of it, one of the things that I've learned over the years is so much of it is I think about to your point of talk of your team.
And during that time, it's about exposure.
Um, many people may not have talked with a gay man and then I come out and they say, Oh, well, I know David and I remember him from high school and he's this person and that person.
And, and then you sort of move along.
So some of it is a little bit about exposure, unfortunately, just that people haven't had it.
Well, and One of the things I wanted to talk about was you transitioned personally.
You have just told us about coming to face that with your colleagues and your employees.
As listeners will recall from the intro, you've made a really specific decision to come out publicly and even in a bigger way.
I didn't mention this, but the media outlets are media outlets and you've written op-eds in very, very significant publications.
And obviously being in an ad before ex-president Trump gives his acceptance speeches is quite a significant amount of exposure and that's certainly driving a lot of change in attitudes and behaviors.
And hopefully also, I think from your perspective with your organization, with policy and with other, other.
significant elements of what needs to be done.
But tell us about how did that happen?
How did you go from here I am, this is me, I'm at work to I'm actually a national voice.
I'm going to participate in this and do more and do more for the community.
You know, it was not, living in North Carolina, which is actually my home state where I grew up, I met my now wife, we were then dating, and I was living with her in Chapel Hill when they passed the now famous HB2 bathroom bill.
And I was connected to some people that on the periphery of what was taking place there.
And I felt like, other people were trying to define what it meant to be transgender.
And I felt like there's a whole generation of people, younger people that shouldn't have to wait until they're in their midlife to transition like I did.
We now have better ability to understand what it means to be transgender.
There's healthcare available.
There's counseling available.
It shouldn't be stigmatized.
And I felt like, you know, other people were trying to steal the narrative and make it something bad.
And that really crushed me personally, because if people have the opportunity to know who they are early in life and get the mental health that they need and get the support that they need and socially transition earlier in life, then they don't have to go through all the heartache and shame and guilt that I went through.
And so I didn't know if I was gonna be public or not.
I was invited to attend a rally in the state.
and State Capitol Raleigh the day after the bill passed.
And I went and they asked me if I'd be willing to say something.
And I decided to speak at that event and then just one thing led to another, led to another.
But what has driven me throughout all of this is, is that there is so much medical evidence for people who are transgender.
There is no question if you talk to any respected medical professional.
There's mountains of evidence that this is not something that people make a choice about.
And then, you know, there's this misconception that children are having surgeries.
That's a falsehood.
That just does not happen.
You know, you can take puberty blockers to stop puberty from happening when then when you get to the age of consent, have surgery.
But if you don't take those puberty blockers, you're going to have to do what I did and what everybody in midlife does is go through all these surgeries to reverse your puberty.
So in many ways, these puberty blockers are surgery sparing until they can get to the age of consent and then get the surgeries that they need.
And I feel like, you know, that's why I've chosen to be visible from that point until now is, I don't want other people to try and portray our community as something that it's not.
We are just people who want to exist side by side with them.
Our gender is no different than anybody else's and why it matters to somebody else is only because The fight for marriage equality was overturned by the Supreme Court in 2015.
And all these organizations had to aim their hate and animus on another community to try and re-litigate the issue.
And they tried to pick the weakest part of the LGBT community, the transgender community, the least visible.
And if I don't stand up and say, this is what it looks like to be transgender, then they get to define it.
And I think that most people in our community don't wanna be visible.
And so it's this paradox of, do we let ourselves be defined by others or do we choose to stand up and say, this is who we are and sit across from me and put a name and a face with what we're talking about here.
That's right.
And you're right.
It's hard enough as it is to your point of not everyone in the community wants to be visible.
That's getting to that point we've made a couple of times.
Well, and this work you've done has led you to form an organization called Great.
So tell us a little bit about that.
It sounds like this activism that you sort of this national platform that you were given and you accepted and took the challenge on has motivated you to do.
Even more, tell us a little bit about grace.
Yeah, I think it's a natural progression in the things I just described.
I was on the board of the Transgender Legal Defense and Education Fund for eight years and seven of those years where I was the board chair or co-chair.
And there's not a lot of transgender led nonprofits and there's so much work to be done.
And until DEF is what the acronym for that organization was, does amazing impact litigation work, which means When bad laws are impacting the community, how do you basically challenge those laws and get them overturned?
And then you have another organization, National Center for Transgender Equality, which focused on policy.
And I felt like in my professional background, I spent three years leading Pfizer's legislative grassroots program, meaning I worked very closely with the federal lobbying team advisor and state lobbying team, worked on policy issues, met with many members of Congress and elected officials.
I also led Pfizer's communications team for their largest business in the US.
And I felt like we're in this time again, where others are trying to define us and there's no counter narrative.
And there was an opportunity to fill that gap and really focus on middle America and focus on giving a name and a voice and a face to what it looks like to be transgender, to counter this anti-transgender narrative that's being put out there.
And so it's kind of a culmination of my nonprofit experience, my professional experience.
And again, trying to...
since most people don't know what it looks like, to help them understand the issue.
So they're hearing it in a nonpartisan, nonthreatening way that this is what it is instead of, you know, being people thinking that children are having genital mutilation.
I'm sorry, but if a child has some sort of genital surgery, it's only because they were probably intersex and had to have something.
And even nowadays, that is typically, and not ethical because nowadays the child should wait till there's the age of consent to correct those things that may be correcting.
But if you don't hear that from somebody, you're gonna believe what you're being told by the other side without questioning it because you're not thinking about why are they saying that?
What's their reason for saying that?
You know, where's their money coming from to fund that organization?
And what's their end game?
And I felt like if we can help people see that This is what it means.
We're your doctor, your neighbor, your lawyer, your healthcare provider, your first responders.
We're everywhere around you.
We always have been for centuries.
We just choose not to be visible because it doesn't define us.
Yeah, it's, it sounds like a lot of truth telling and you know, really sitting down at the table and having discussions and really making progress.
I really, I like that, especially at this time with so much anti LGBTQ legislation on the table with such a divisive political environment in general, with a very contentious election ahead of us.
It seems like it's perfect, perfect timing for, for grace, for sure.
When Elena, when you think about it, you've had roles at some really large organizations and have experience in the nonprofit space as well.
What advice would you give to LGBTQ folks or even allies supporting, but I guess mostly at folks who are identifying as LGBTQ plus in the workplace?
They're thinking about...
I'd like to show up differently.
I'd like to show up more authentically.
I know that there's something that I'm not delivering or able to become because I'm sort of holding myself back from being my authentic self.
What advice would you give to employees that maybe they're new to the workforce and they're just figuring it out?
One stat that I've mentioned several times on the podcast is 50% of LGBTQ identified employees fear that being their authentic self will hinder their ability to be promoted and have a successful career.
So the fear is real.
So what might you suggest as some recommendations on how to face that and how to move that forward if employees want to do so?
I think that's a great question and I really appreciate you asking that, David, because I think it's a very real fear and I'd be lying if I said I didn't have challenges in the workplace when I transitioned and since that time too.
And I think that you have to basically bifurcate your worlds in some ways, and that's not to hide who you are.
But just like I was mentioning, my gender history doesn't define who I am.
Our companies pay us to show up and do amazing work in the workplace.
That's why they pay us.
They don't show that we don't get paid to show up and be activists.
We get paid to show up and do amazing work.
And that's what we're going to be recognized for, compensated for, and rewarded for.
So I think that my advice is don't confuse your identity with the work that you're doing at your job and expected to do.
And you can show up in an authentic way and not hide the fact that I have a wife and I don't talk about my gender history because it's not relevant to my daily job.
But if situations come up, I don't hide it either, right?
And I think that's where people have to find that comfort level of what works best for them.
And I think that if, in today's political environment, companies are very reticent.
to get involved in things publicly on LGBT issues or any issues, right?
There's been a backlash to that.
And so, but I think that that's different than how you show up in your job.
And just don't confuse the two things.
And don't think that your job is to be an activist within your company.
Be involved with your employee resource groups.
Find your community of like people within your company because they're there.
And you're gonna find a great support network to draw from there.
And I think that's the beauty of it.
But always keep in mind, you're there, your end of year review is gonna depend on the job that you did, nothing to do with your identity and how you identify.
And if it is something different than that, then you have employee resources and human resources to talk to you about those issues.
I think it's such good advice and I'll tell you, Elena, it's something that as I've had clout for good up and running for, you know, half a year now and I've had some really amazing discussions, there is one thing that I will say is the most consistent and maybe this is intuitive, maybe it isn't, but is my guess saying first and foremost, do your job.
Do your job and do your job well and know that I love what you just said, which is at the end of the year, you're going to be rated on your performance in your job.
And I, I think that it's bringing your whole self to work can often be misconstrued, I think, to some degree with, I love what you just said with activism and it's, it's everything and it's all or nothing.
And And I think the reality, and I, I don't mean to say this to listeners and to folks out there to say, you know, the world isn't a perfect place, but the world isn't a perfect place.
And we need to do the best we can and one, perform our job.
Two, as you said, seek your people, seek those resources.
And As you've just done and as you've just demonstrated, you can make a difference.
You really can make a difference as, as you're able to, to navigate the workforce.
If you're delivering on your job function and you're, you're improving the company's bottom line.
Exactly.
I think we're a thousand percent aligned in that way.
Yeah, yeah.
And, you know, one of the other things you've mentioned a few things, and certainly your organization, which please tell folks how to get in touch, is I also like to hear from my guests because of the real vast experience and network that folks have.
What resources might you share with folks that are listening?
They could be identifying as LGBTQ+, they could be allies.
And of course, there are members of companies and organizations where they can help make a difference.
What tools and resources for coming out or for understanding the community or for navigating might you suggest to folks that are listening?
Well, I think that for any ally trying to understand, I still think PFLAG has some of the best resources.
In fact, I had a meeting last week in Washington, DC with PFLAG and I was just singing their praises.
Because I think that especially for allies and family members that might have somebody in their life that's transgender, they're trying to understand.
PFLAG is gonna come at it from a pragmatic approach.
And they know the questions that you're thinking, and they've got a great...
resource guide to help you answer all of those questions that you have.
So I always send people the P flag first and foremost.
And I think that another I think really great pragmatic resource for understanding the transgender community is Aaron Reed has a substack, Aaron Reed in the Morning, that is unbiased, that really gets to the heart of the issues facing the community and really approaches them not from a...
an activist perspective, but from a journalistic perspective and a factual based perspective, very much aligned with work that we're trying to do at the Gender Research Advisory Council on Education, which is trying to take the energy out of both sides.
There's so much energy in the far left, there's so much energy in the far right.
We're just trying to speak to the people in the middle and help them understand.
And that's, you know, our website is grace-now.org.
And really just trying to...
source things and provide the resources that people can understand and then back check us on where the data comes from.
And I think that's what's important is to try and weed through the rhetoric and understand the data and understand the issues in their entirety and understand that, you know, where does the bias come from in both arguments and try and seek that center ground that probably understands that there is bias on both sides.
But Yeah.
There still is merit in facts.
Facts are still facts.
Yeah, yeah, those are, they're great resources.
I have a very personal connection to PFLAG.
I came out myself in 1994 and was looking for resources on how do I bring my family along?
And that year took my mom to the National PFLAG Conference and said, let's go, let's figure this out.
She became a PFLAG chapter leader and eventually over time won a lifetime sort of for her work with PFLAG.
And I too think it is an amazing organization.
And I think such a community-based, local-based organization for its original effort of helping parents and friends, it really is helping the community.
And I think in some places, it's the local meeting that folks in our community find and they go to.
So I think it's such a great organization.
I'll listen to it.
to Aaron in the morning or read Aaron in the morning.
I haven't done that yet.
And certainly thanks for sharing your organization as well.
So one last question, Elena, that oddly gets the most interaction on social media aside from the actual episodes than any other posts that I do.
People love to hear the responses to this question.
And it's...
You're hosting a clout for good dinner party.
You're going to invite some members of the LGBTQ community.
And I think, you know, one of the ways that I frame this is we've just heard about your story and your background and folks know a little more about you and we'll certainly learn more as they seek the resources and look at some of the things that you've done in the community.
But.
Who sort of inspired you along the way, or who are some icons or mentors, or who are some folks from the community that you were to host a Clout for Good dinner party?
Who are a few people that you would invite, and why might you want them at your table?
I'll separate this into the living and the historical, if that's okay.
I think living, I am so fortunate on the board of grace to have Jameson Green.
Jameson is a just, I don't know what the word adequately describe Jameson's impact in the transgender community.
The reason any of us have any healthcare coverage in the US for transgender.
healthcare is because of Jameson's work in San Francisco, then with the human rights campaign and getting in the corporate equality index.
Jameson is person one, which is also, he was one of the first people I invited to be a part of the Board of Grace and graciously accepted my invitation.
You know, also through my work, I've been able to get to know Mara Keasling, and she founded the National Center for Transgender Equality.
And Mara has dedicated her life to educating people and policymakers.
And I think that...
done amazing work and, you know, at a time that nobody was doing it and built a great organization.
So that's one person from each, they, Mara identifies as she, her and Jameson as he, him.
But then I think historically speaking, again, it goes back to something I said earlier, people think that being transgender is new.
In the 1400s, there was Joan of Arc.
Now we don't know if Joan of Arc was transgender or not.
She definitely...
cross-dressed, she presented in public as a male, she, you know, led amazing military campaigns and ultimately she was burned at the stake.
She was also a devout Catholic and I'm Catholic and identify as Catholic despite some of the things going on at the Catholic Church.
And I think that, you know, I would love to pick her brain to understand because she found a way to exist in the world.
and challenged gender norms and was accepted for that and revered for that and ultimately paid the ultimate price for that.
But I think that also goes back to people want to define us as being something new, some phenomenon.
No, the percentage of us who exist in this world have always been the same.
It's just now we have an ability to be visible.
So now you're seeing visibility at a younger age.
So people have to transition midlife, which is a beautiful thing.
But we've always been here.
And so I think that would make a really interesting conversation and I'm just fortunate enough to have worked with both Mara and with Seamus in my work that I do.
And so hope that answers your question.
It does.
I love it.
And as you know, I served at Visa as the co-chair of the employee resource group with Jameson and am very familiar with his impact, his work, his compassion, and his dedication.
And so I share that same respect.
And then coincidentally, Mara came to lead sort of a keynote speech, if you will, at a board meeting at GLSEN.
And I was hugely impressed with her work and the organization.
But I have not met Joan of Arc yet.
So that one, that, that will be, that will be an interesting guest for sure.
I love it.
Well, Elena, thank you so much for your time today.
Thank you once again for all the work that you do.
It's been a real honor to have you on the podcast as you talk about these folks that you're impressed with.
there will be a lot of people who are equally impressed with the work that you've done.
So thanks for coming on and being a guest for Enclop for Good.
No, thank you, Dave.
And thank you for the work that you do.
And, you know, visibility matters.
And it's so amazing that you're doing this podcast.
And thank you so much for your visibility.
Yeah, of course.
And to my listeners, thanks so much for joining today.
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