Episode 127 - "Incest and Indecency"

We welcome Sisi Wednesday back for another round of chaos, ass slapping, possession and sexual energy. Sisi tells us about one of her fave weird women of history and the Lady Lobotomy surgery is open! 

This is a great episode on audio only, as this was pre-recorded just before my cameras were set up. A bonus video episode is coming though for those who like to see our faces! lol 

Mojo re-engaged! 

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Recorded and Produced by Vicky at The Padded Cell Studios

Ep 1 - 120 recorded at: 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Are you a deviant? You know, like those of us who binge watch serial killer programs, laugh at the stupid stuff people do, and revel in anything adult? Well, you found your people! Join us as we crack open the door to the Pathet Cell and release the insanely stupid, the weirdly wonderful, and those who choose to live aside society for norms. We develop into the strange, the macabre, the sexy and the outrageous! So if you're a deviant, then you have your place with us in the Path of Cell. Yeah, the phone's definitely on silence. I checked all mine. Right, so just bring your mic a little tiny bit closer. Yes. Is there close enough?

unknown 0:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Yeah. Okay. Fine by me. Good. Right, hello, and welcome to episode one, two, seven. One, two, seven. Fuck it. That's a lot of episodes. Oh, episode one, two, seven. I'm off the Path of Cell podcast, and I'm joined once again by City Wednesday. It's me.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

So excited to be back.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

That was one thing short of here's Jimmy. Just a sight. I don't know. Yeah, I love it. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:17

Fabulous. Very me. So you are fresh from a little trip away. I am. I've just had the most wonderful little break. Very spooky, gothic, macabre. And the topic that I've I've brought to the table today is very much based on this trip.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

So I can't wait. So I'm not going to talk too much about the trip right now. Of course. But it's a little bit of a hint, everybody, about what's to come because Sissy's brought her own segment today. I have. And it's it hasn't been inspired by where you've been today, I don't think, but it's sort of linked to it.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Yes, very much so.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Because you knew about it anyway. And this trip has sort of reinforced your move. Yes. Oh, we're all intrigued. Better happy. I don't actually know what you've chosen to do. It will be. Happy days. So um you've listened to your episode back, obviously. Of course. Um, and have you listened to the ones? Of course I have. So, what did you think about? Obviously, I know you're a bit biased of yourself, but all four new hosts, because you're a long-term listener. I am a long-term. So, what did you think about the new hosts?

SPEAKER_01 2:20

There is such a mix between us, anyway.

SPEAKER_03 2:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

I think even just listening to like every obviously I've listened to every single one, and I am the only new gaily on the team. Um, and it's just so nice to hear so many different perspectives and kind of outlooks on things. I know you mentioned like some you brought up the royals in two of them, and there was very polar opposite perspectives in there. Very, very polar opposites. Um, and I just think it brings such a nice mix to have such a wide range of people. You've picked four completely different people who will bring something like completely different to the table.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

And I think that's really interesting, so I've been it is, and the feedback's been really good so far. You know, obviously the getting to know you's have passed now, we're into our regular format. Um, and I've already recorded one in the the regular format now. And I just feel like we found our mojo a little bit. I'm in the studio, I feel all right now. I was boasting that I'm doing multi-track recordings very exciting, and I know for the nerds out there, it's like, why weren't you doing that anyway? It's because I really don't know what I'm doing. I'm winging it, I'm doing my best.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

You're smashing it to be fair. Absolutely smashing it.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Oh I'm actually I'm getting a little bit ale over the sound quality. The sound quality of the one that went out today to Patreons, which is Barry 125. I was like, oh, I'm so happy with the sound on this. Perfect. Oh, amazing. I've become really, really, really sad. So uh the variety of hosts is is nice and it's nice for me as well because everybody's bringing something different for me, is keeping it interesting. The conversations all go in all different directions because everybody thinks in different ways and different opinions on things. I do find myself asking the same questions sometimes of each of the hosts, but I'm doing that because I'm interested in everybody's perspective on something. So I'm hoping that it's as interesting for everybody else out there as it is for me.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Oh, I think.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

And if it's not, I'm having a lovely time.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Well, that's what matters at the end of the day. Your podcast. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

It's in my studio, I'll do what I want. As you should. So it's lovely to have you back. I'm made up to be back. You were all bouncy when you came in.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Oh no, it's because I love it. I think it's because, like you say, I am a long-term listener of the pod anyway. So I think just being here, just it's not wearing off. It's still, I don't know if it's really sunk in. I'm like, yeah, this is me.

unknown 4:36

Hello.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

Oh, I see the Instagram things get out as well. It's really nice that you're excited.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

I am really excited. I mean, I obviously we're not talking about the trip yet, but I did come across somewhere that had a padded cell.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

I couldn't believe that.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

I couldn't be more excited about it.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

I couldn't believe it. It's funny, actually, over the years, everywhere I've been, I've found a dungeon. Yeah. I don't mean like uh you know, like the uh the torture dungeons and Prague. I mean a natural dungeon. Yeah. We've been all over the place and we love castles, and obviously castles have dungeons and all that not all castles. Um sorry, it hasn't just been castles, but everywhere, and I've got loads of photos on holiday, and it's me again pointing to a sign saying dungeon. And I'm like, I just naturally find these things. I totally get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So um anyway, we're gonna move on because I thought I was gonna be chattering for absolutely ages. It's gonna be a little bit hard for the same hour. Yeah, I've been trying to cut it down. Yeah, I've been getting them down for about an hour and fifteen. Perfect. We can do that. We'll smash that. So you've actually got a job to do.

unknown 5:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

Do you want to watch them? No.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

No, I've I L I was not that prepared.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

You might have to tip you the wink then.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

Okay, perfect.

SPEAKER_00 5:41

Have we got getting the button's back? You've all the keeper of the farth button. And so, uh, ooh, ooh, in about an hour, let's say, if we're gonna do the farth buzzer, and if I'm still laughing I've missed that.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Okay. That's a noise I've kind of missed in a very strange way. That you haven't been in the pod. Of course you have. Yeah, I've actually like creatures of comfort, aren't we? And we like very specific things.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

They just like um yeah, familiarity. Um the the familiar things haven't been around them. So God bless you.

SPEAKER_01 6:11

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

They're back. Right then. So we're gonna move on to our on this day's and this episode is gonna be going on the 26th of March. Fabulous. And I found three interesting things that I thought we'd have a little chat about. One in particular, I think you might know a little bit about. I thought it'd be create a nice little bit of convo. One, I thought it's a nice little way of uh written, not raising awareness, but having an awareness of where something came from. Okay. That'll make sense. And then the first one is a little bit relevant to uh us as females, but also me having the club that I have. Are you intrigued? I am very intrigued. I can't wait. On this day, 26th of March 2019, not that long ago. A piece of legislation very quietly passed um in Tennessee in America. And when it first came out, it caused like this um ripple of laughter, if you like, especially amongst um the male species. Okay. Mm-hmm. And a lot of eye rolling on social media and quite a lot of conversation, serious conversation around consent boundaries and all that sort of thing. And the difference between flirtation and assault. Interesting. Any idea what this might be?

SPEAKER_01 7:28

I feel like because I was I was quite active on social media at the time, so when you say it, I'll probably know exactly what it was.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

Okay. So uh it was called the Tennessee butt slapping law. Oh yes, no, I have. Um, and it's not tongue-in-cheek, they they did actually use that term. I mean, obviously there's some legal jargon, but when it was just discussed, it was a butt slapping law. Uh and I'm like, well, already we're not off to a great start. Not ideal, is it? So before I go into it, I mean, I mean it's a serious-ish subject, but I'm not gonna go too too deep into this because uh it might be something people want to talk about and discuss away from our recording. But how do you feel if somebody walks past you and gives your bum like a little slap or a squeeze?

SPEAKER_01 8:12

Um, I've not reacted well to it in the past, if I'm completely honest with you.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

As a performer, that was a massive no.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

I so at my show, I have a rule. I start the show off with my show rules, and one of them is do not touch us, we will not touch you without your consent prior to the performance. If we've not had that discussion, we're not touching you. Don't touch us, or you will be asked to leave. And I I apparently am quite scary when I'm in my massive stacky pole heels kind of thing, shouting at people.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

So I mean, I would not argue with you with those massive shoes on me.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

Exactly, exactly. So um that in the performer world is obviously a massive no. But also when it's just happened to me outside of being sissy Wednesday, I haven't reacted like I will shout at men in the show.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

Okay, so let's have a little think about it then. How many times could you even put a number on the amount of times that a male or female has touched you without you even knowing they're there or without consent, or somebody's assumed it's okay because they've lost track. Yeah, means absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

I think it's so normalised when it shouldn't necessarily be, shall we say, if you've not consented to that.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Yeah. And I'd like to say that it's mainly men, but in in our club environment, uh women do it as well. But I was trying to think about in the outside world when I've been going to pubs and clubs, if I'm standing at a bar, they don't do it so much now because I'm older and I think I look a bit scary. I think I just give off the vibe of just just don't touch me. Yeah, you'll fucking live to regress it. I think I just do that without really knowing it. But years ago, maybe not quite so much. And I did, if I was standing at the bar, I did often just have a hand just sitting on my arse. You do? And there's load of times and I'd like, would you like to remove your hand off my buttock? Um, or putting their arm around you and like hugging it in, especially when they're pissed, and you know, you're all like you know, high on the happy side, it's actually nice in town, and there's a guy next to you, and they go, Oh, you're alright, love, and they put their arm around you. Hug you in. Yeah. I mean, I don't mind you someone's just being friendly and they've putting an hand on your shoulders that I can source. I would be okay with that. I know some people wouldn't. But when somebody like really hugs you in and so so close you can smell what they've been drinking, it's uncomfortable. And you're like, I'm not your mate, I don't even know you, I've never come across you before. Yeah, the only time when that source of acceptable to me is New Year's Eve, I think really. It's just a fucking free-for-all, isn't it? Isn't it just if you put yourself in that position? Then your source of fair game, I don't mean for like very inappropriate tossing, but for hugs from strangers and all.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

It's quite normal, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:40

But um I also I'm I'm sort of torn because I'm from old stock, so you know, in the 80s and 90s and even early 2000s, uh, people did touch each other more, and uh I think people are a bit more tactile. I think we've grown more anti-social in that way. Yes. Now I'm not saying that you know touching people is just antisocial, it's not, it can go far beyond antisocial, but I think in general we've become more antisocial these days, and so we're not uh it's not normal for us to go in for hugs and all that kind of thing. We do ask permission and that, and I kind of miss the times when you could have innocent hugs and all that, and it wasn't like is that laced in something else? Yes, um, and especially in the club, me and Jim often talk about the good old, bad old days. And we have like this year, about a time, about six, seven years, and it was like one long Saturday night. All of our mate were there, every night was just fantastic, and we had these brilliant memories, and people would come in, you would just go in for a hug, or like you know, ooh, your tits look boss in that. And they go, Do you want to have a little feel? Can I put my head in them? Yeah, all right, yeah. Yeah, it was just banter and they'd say no if they didn't want it, you know. And you knew where your boundaries were, you knew who you could say it to, and all that. And we sort of self-pleased ourselves. If somebody did something to us, I would just be like, get your fucking hands off me, or I didn't say that you could put your head in my cleaver to remove it now. Absolutely, whereas now, and again, I'm not saying this is wrong, but because we're a little less social now, and when people then do come into our space and touch us, it's a little bit more shocking. And I find that people nowadays are less likely to deal with the situation themselves in an adult way. Maybe they don't want confrontation, maybe they're afraid of what they might get back, maybe they're afraid of ridicule, embarrassment for the people around them. I don't know. But part of it, I think, is that people are quick to jump to authorities or social media or something like that, and sort of make it a public problem rather than look, mate, I didn't appreciate you put your hands on my arse, don't do that again. Or next time you'll be fucking sorry. Uh-huh. Maybe you've got to be an assertive sort of person, I don't know. But what it's all sort of culminated in, and again, I'm not saying it's right or wrong, is that we now have laws in this country where any kind of contact like that is class of sexual assault. Yes, it is. I've taught this and I'm totally on board with it because actually now there's a real grey area between friends who mean no harm and friends who are possibly taking advantage of you. Absolutely. And so there's things in place there to protect people and to protect those who aren't assertive like us, to tell people to get their hands off. So I think there's definitely a place for it, but I also feel that it might make people a little more antisocial, people more guarded. I find I ask myself pretty much all the time, apart from you before when you hug you uh, are you hugging? I mean, I thought I might have to do it last time you came down, and I find myself asking permission to do a lot of things that's just become normal now. And that's the new norm, and that's fine. If that is going to help other people in society feel less awkward, definitely fine. I'm totally on board with it. Do we need butt slapping laws like we've got in Tennessee? Uh, yeah, yeah, I do. But actually, I also think we need to be uh educating people what's right and what's wrong. I absolutely but also giving our men and women, because not just women, uh the confidence to to call people out. Absolutely. And to know that the people around them will back them up on that. Yeah. And to educate groups of people that if their friend behaves in this way, it's not cool to rally round that friend and make the victim feel bad. Definitely. So I think these things are all very well and good, but I think actually there's a lot of other things that we can do to have a middle ground that's less black and white in that that's the law, and you can't do that. Yes, you've got this law, but you know, let's let's give people a bit more uh confidence and assertiveness to just say no and like no, but have the backup if needed, if needed. So that was quite a lot of talk, really. But that's sort of what I wanted to get across with this butt slapping law, and it came in um because you know, women getting groped and stuff. It was uh the bus end of jokes that I actually did actually type that out.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

I love that in bold. It's like don't forget that one.

SPEAKER_00 15:22

And uh you know, victims, I'm gonna say, not just women, uh, described in the same old scenario, somebody you know walking past, brushing the boob brushing, bum brushing, that kind of thing. Uh I actually had somebody um twang a bra strap once. Absolutely not. It was a shoulder strap, and they said, Oh, I was just untwisting it. Yeah. But the what they did is they got the hand and they put it underneath my strap so I could feel their hand on my back and then pulls it. It wasn't an untwist at all and actually get your fucking hands off me. It's it's really really weird.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

It's really weird, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:57

Um and at this time before 2019, when women were going into these bars and public areas and and being exposed to source behaviour, when they reported it, the police often had a hard time trying to apply any sort of root laws to it. They were like, I agree that that was wrong, but I'm not sure how I'm gonna apply the law to that.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

Yeah, it's so complicated.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

This thing came in in Tennessee, um, and the law expanded to uh the the legal definition at the time of sexual contact to include the intentional touching of a person's buttocks, breasts, or genital area without consent. Now, I've actually seen women grope a man's dick and balls. I've I've seen that in tech happens, or that and I I nowadays see more women doing things that they shouldn't than men. I find that men are a little bit more cautious of what they shouldn't, shouldn't be doing. Don't get me wrong, there's still plenty of them out of it.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Of course there is.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

But I feel like women get away with it a little bit because they prefer a sex, and I'm like, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

I would agree. I think obviously there's been a lot of talk over the years of like men doing awful things which they have. They are we we know for a fact that happens a lot. But I think men now, if they're gonna do it, they're gonna be sneakier with it.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

Because they feel they have to be. If they're gonna do something they know they shouldn't be doing, they'll be sneakier.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

Women do it more openly.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

They do.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

Because they can get away with it.

SPEAKER_00 17:17

Well, they think they can get away with it.

SPEAKER_01 17:18

Well, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Now, in our club, I would call somebody out on that. Would I do it in a bar? I don't know. I don't know. I feel like in that social environment, uh is it like is she just being friendly and giddy and you know high on life? Yeah. Do I really want to like, you know, put a proper down on a night by pulling somebody on that? It would depend on what they've done.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

I think.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

Depends on on what you're actually observing.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

I mean, if I was genuinely uncomfortable by something, then yes. If I was just a little bit annoyed because I'm like fucking get in your own fucking space, then possibly not.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

I get ya.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

It's a it's a hard one, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 17:58

It is hard. I mean, I think my reaction to men and women in situations like that would be completely like I will shout at men.

SPEAKER_02 18:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

And I know that's probably not the safest option, and I know you probably shouldn't, but I do just shout at men. Um but with women, I'm like, oh come on, love, that's not cool. And I think it it's so bizarre because the same thing could be happening. But in my head, I'm gonna give two different reactions, and it's so strange when you think about it.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

It's probably down to how men and women communicate in general, though. And also you're reading the person, so one guy might take being shouted at and go, oh fuck, okay. Yeah, another guy might turn on you. Yeah, absolutely. Another guy, it probably wouldn't do anything at all, and actually take the guy aside and have a sensible conversation for different what you can do in 30 seconds. Like, do you know what, mate? You probably didn't think about this, but what you've just done there's made me really uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

You've got to read the situation, but it's like, why is it on us as a person it's happening to to read the situation and then read the person and how best we should deal with it? Smart, isn't it? Exactly. What the fuck? But you know, saying all of this, I'm gonna go back to I'm glad we've got all these things in, and you know, I'm glad this bill's been passed in Tennessee, and it did sort of start start this sort of um snowball effect to neighbouring states and all that. It was obviously needed very recently, seven years ago. Of course, it's not long at all, you know, to the day. But I do want to go back to um it's not the good old times, but just other times when um we we were sort of encouraged, if you like, to fight your own fights. Yes. Um I'm not saying like we should be fisticuffs and that, but definitely, but communicate properly. Communicate, yeah, have that confidence to do that.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 19:37

I'd like to think our kids have got the confidence to do that sort of thing. Does anybody go out though? Kids nowadays just don't come out.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

They're all on the phone all the time. Their communication is through social media.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Do you know? I couldn't get our kids out when they were younger. Yeah. Couldn't get them out. I'd be like, you know, just go out and play, go out and just sit in on the game or just in the house, you know, and like what's wrong with you? I was out all the and I had no choice. My mum booted my house every day and come back at when the lights go out, when the lights come out.

unknown 20:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

But they just wouldn't go out. Isn't that funny? Yeah. I mean there's three of them, especially like hung out together and that. But when we were in Liverpool as well, it wasn't the safest of places.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

I get you, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

But like you're like, should we get a par? Yeah. Funny. And you just couldn't keep me keep me in when I was younger.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

I was out all the time. Absolutely. Absolutely mad, absolutely mad.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

Right, so we're gonna move on to something else, and I didn't know where this came from. Uh there's a a day today, 26th of March, and it's called Purple Day. Okay. Obviously, one of my two favourite colours, purple and green. Love that. Now, purple as a as an awareness colour is associated with loads of different things like autoimmune diseases and stuff like that. Um, and I think the military give a purple hearse when somebody leaves the military who've been injured and stuff like that. But there's also a purple day, and it's uh an awareness day for people who have epilepsy. Okay. Nice. This isn't going to be like the main thing, but it's sort of I looked back on the way epilepsy was seen years ago. Okay. Because they didn't understand it. But the purple day, uh, this was actually brought about by uh a young girl who had epilepsy herself, showing you nine. Her name was Cassidy Megan. Or Megan. Yeah. 2008. And she had epilepsy, and she said that when she had seizures in school, the other kids were frightened of her.

unknown 21:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

She didn't know what was happening to her. And she didn't want to frighten them, and she was then thought, well, the only way I'm going to change this is by educating them. Yeah. And she worked with the teachers and started like introducing what it's like to have epilepsy to kids of her age and not to be frightened. And if it happens, don't worry, and all that kind of thing. And um, a teacher sort of lent into her and encouraged her. And it was her, she decided to make this day purple day. Um, and little interesting fact, she chose. Was a colour purple because she said lavender flowers are linked to solitude and isolation, and she said the colour symbolised people with epilepsy feeling alone.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Oh, what an amazing girl.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

Yeah. I love lavender. I know some people say it's like you know, old lady type smelling. Like a little old lady. I love it. Little old lady.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

Little old lady.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

Love on your shoal, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 22:21

I crocheted it. I know. I saw her up on Instagram and I was like, oh love that. I am, I am a little cranny. It's absolutely great because I'm a little feel. Yeah, and of course, you can. That will cost me a fiver for the ball, the whole thing. Brilliant. How about it?

SPEAKER_00 22:33

So basically, that cost you a five in your time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

Great though. Incredible, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 22:38

I'm just going to do shit like that, can't I not like that?

SPEAKER_01 22:40

Teacher.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

No, no. I've got enough to learn. You've got enough going on. I've just learnt multi-track. I'm sure it's still on. Fuck I know. I've just learnt multi-track and that is cameras. So crows are gonna have to wait until she created this day anyway, and um it it just went bum bum bum bum bum bum. And um within a few years, Purple Day was recognised across dozens of countries. It's amazing. Charities, hospitals, schools began participating, and today millions of people take part in Purple Day annually. Um and throughout human history, epilepsy wasn't considered a medical condition at all. And this is why I'm glad Purple Day is around because there's still people that don't really understand it and are fearful of it. And by having this day, it's just it's making us talk about it, and everybody that's listening to this now is just gonna learn a little something. Yes, and so I think it's lovely this this young kid has created a day that I'm making a segment out of, which is now gonna educate a few people.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

Absolutely, that's genuinely amazing. What a fabulous girl!

SPEAKER_00 23:46

So, back in the day, epilepsy was not understood at all. Some people considered it was something supernatural. Oh, maybe like a possession. Yeah, interesting. And uh, in ancient Greece, the condition was sometimes called the sacred disease. Oh, people believe seizures were caused by gods entering the body.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

Wow, I mean that makes them pretty awkward. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

I mean, would they be scared because it looks scarier because oh they're now a god? Yeah. Yeah. Um, and apparently it was a positive thing. So when the gods entered the body, it was it was more of um um an ethereal, powerful, positive thing, but also a little bit scary because they're now god. Yeah, but it's it was positive. Oh wow, but in medieval Europe, seizures were frequently blamed on demonic possession. Of course they were.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

They blamed everything on demons.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

Possessed by demons, and exorcisms were often performed on people with epilepsy. Um it wasn't just in the Middle Ages either, it was it went right through until people understood what it was. They were trying all sorts of get rid of this demon, basically. Yeah. And there's some records of people being chained, beaten, wow, subjected to violent religious rituals, basically because the people believed that they were evidence of evil spirits. Of course. Yeah. And there's other cultures that developed other strange beliefs as well. I can't remember when it was now. Somewhere in your medieval times, it was believed that if these spat uh near somebody having a seizure, it would ward off evil.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

Oh, how peculiar. Imagine somebody spitting on you when you're gonna be able to do it. Imagine you're having that really hard time, you're really going through it, and it's all spits at you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

You don't feel shit enough like, you know. Some communities believed epilepsy was contagious. Okay. But then if you don't know what you don't know, you would think that, wouldn't you? If you don't know what it is, these like shit. I'm gonna catch this.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

Exactly. To be fair, I thought scary was contagious until about two years ago. And I'm the pirate girl. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 25:51

I should have known that. Yeah, I'm glad you you know that now. Anyway, Victorian medicine has its own bizarre thing. Oh, well, the Victorians were very strange. Doctors in the 1800s believed epilepsy was caused by sexual excess, of course, masturbation, or moral weakness. Oh, of course. I'd be having seizures all the time if that was the case. Fucking hell. Love it. Yeah. And patients were often subjected to really harsh treatments to try and suppress this sexual behaviour which was causing these terrible fitness. Yeah. Body hell. In some cases, unfortunately, patients were even subjected to sterilization.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

Horrific.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

So through like eugenics programmes because the condition was considered hereditary and uh they didn't want it passed down the lines, it was undesirable. Outrageous. Yeah. And if you think about it, the stigma, it pushed people into secrecy, really. Yeah, and they weren't the led secret of lives with a close friendship, friendship circle. So it must have been quite uh isolating really absolutely, it's awful. Families would hide their relatives, so like you know, if the mum had epilepsy, they'd hide them indoors, children excluded from from school, adults struggle to find employment. Yeah. And even today it still carries a few myths. Yes. People that don't know. People don't get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the one of the biggest myths, and people out there don't do this. I've seen it. Um, when someone's having a fist, I've seen people actually go to put something in their mouth. Yes, don't absolutely not. It's actually really quite dangerous to do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So back in the day, obviously, it was very, very misunderstood, but now we know it's a neurological disorder disorder, and it's characterised by abnormal electrical activity in the brain. And it can um it can come out in different ways. There was a guy years ago in the club who didn't know he had epilepsy. And I was chatting to him on the bar, and he was sitting on a bar stool, and he just looked at me and then threw me.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

Yeah, and I went glazed over.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

Shit. Legged it round the bar just in time for him to go flying off the stool. I couldn't catch him, unfortunately. It wasn't quite there. And he went head first on the floor, and he had a fit. But he it wasn't fitting, he just went blank and then fell on the floor rigid, and then all of a sudden he came round. Absolutely. And I said to him, then I said, Have you got epilepsy? He went, No. I went, I think you need to go and get checked out. Yeah. And then he came back months and months later and he went, Yeah, I've got epilepsy. Of course. And then obviously you got your your seizures, your grandmal seizures. Of course, there's so many. And there's all different types of epilepsy. So um this purple day uh is now to get people like us talking about it a little bit more, uh exploding some myths, raising awareness, and uh, yeah, it's now this purple day is recognising over 100 countries. Amazing, and uh it began not with a government campaign or you know, uh a medic, just a nine-year-old jail. He wanted to make a little bit of a difference because her friends were scared of her.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

Well, how amazing is she? That's so sad, isn't it? It's genuinely devastating. I know, yeah. God love her. You ever seen anybody having a fit? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

What did you think you're scared of?

SPEAKER_01 29:06

It was I think I had never experienced it before. And it it was when I was in school and there was a lad there who we at first thought he had fainted, but he wasn't, he was fitting. Um, and for us at the time, I mean we're like 12. It was like, oh, that's a lot. But as soon as it was explained to us, we're like, okay, yeah, can we do anything to help him? Yeah. Kind of thing for the rest of the day. And I think just that little bit of explanation really goes a long way, especially with kids, they're impressionable, they'll absorb things like a sponge, educate people, yeah, help people along. Absolutely. It makes the world much easier, nicer, happier place.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

I'd like to think now, if there was a class and somebody had epilepsy or a condition in the class and something happened, obviously it'd be dealt with. But then I, as a teacher, obviously maybe I mean my teacher now think this way, I would use that as a learn experience. Absolutely. And next time the class convened, I'd make a point, obviously chatting to the kid first and make sure they were okay. Yeah. And I'd be like, you know, this is not just for you and your safety, but it'd benefit your friends. Of course. If it never happened and I wasn't around, they would know what to do. Exactly. And I would use the opportunity. Well, you know, it's said in the right way, in a way the kids understood, you know, what had happened and not to be afraid of it and how you can help your friend.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

Definitely.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

And you come and get an adult and all that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

That'd be really important to kids, do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 30:25

Yeah, I think and maybe more of that's being done now. But years ago when I was in school, event like that happened. You were just like the embarrassment of the class.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

And the teacher were like, just go down and see the first day.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

It's awful, I didn't.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

She wasn't even a nurse. She was a deaf-the head? Yeah. She'd put a plaster on.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

You get a blue blue paper towel on your head. That's about it.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

Good luck. Oh, yeah, yeah. Off you go. Honest to God. I used to love it when they put TCP on my knees when I graduated my knees. I didn't do that in senior school, just gone with it, but in junior school, you'd go along, like, you know, to the to the office and you'd limp along. Of course she would. And they'd pour a little bit of TCP on there, it'd stink all day. Yeah, absolutely. Remember one day they put it on my knee, I'd roll down into my socks, it like pools in my socks all day. At first, I was like, ooh, it smells nice. By the end of the day, I was like, it stinks.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

Yeah. It's like a badge of honour though, isn't it, when you're at school? Yeah, it really is. Been through the walls that day.

SPEAKER_00 31:16

That's it, yeah. Yeah. Because you used to pick your scabs on your knee. Oh, obviously. I was shocking. Terrible. I still do it sometimes a bit now. I don't mean like in a really mingy way, but you know, when you've got like an annoying scab in an annoying place, it's been itchy.

SPEAKER_01 31:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:30

Just give it a the actual little scratch.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

Can I get a little bit? Yeah, I get it. I absolutely get it.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

My mum used to call me Miss Pickett. It was either Miss Pickett or Miss Tut. Love it. But I was always going, always. I love it. I do it now all the time.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

That's hilarious. Did you have any little nicknames when you're younger than you? I just mostly got sport because my head was shaped like a potato when I was firstborn. So we still get it now.

SPEAKER_00 31:57

People are being called Spud quite a lot, then I think.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

But I think sometimes it's just like, oh, it's a nice thing, and then you hear it's because my head was literally shaped like a potato when I was born. My mum never forgot it, never let me live it down. So yeah, that's that's my my lovely family name is Spuds. My grandad dared call one of my cousins Spud once, and I hit the roof when I was about seven or eight. I was furious.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

Maybe I should change your name to Sissy Spud in my phone. Sissy Spud? Spud Wednesday.

SPEAKER_01 32:20

Oh love it.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

It's gonna happen, you know. Yeah, I'm up for it. Right, so I'm gonna move on to my last little on this day before we hear from you. Fabulous. And I think you're gonna know a little bit about this guy if you're a deviant. You know the name. Okay. At least if you don't know anything about him. Okay. Alistair Crowley. Heard of. Heard of. Heard of. Do you know anything about him? No. Okay. So Alistair Crowley holds a little special place in my heart for being uh kooky, weirdly wicked to some, very deviant, into some dark stuff. Okay. I believe he was a bit misunderstood. Okay. Now I'm really intrigued. But we also we've got him absolutely bang on in other ways because he admitted it. And I think I'm gonna touch on him now because this is the on this day, but um I wasn't gonna do him as an unhinged because I think he's you know, a lot of people know about him. But yourself, there's a lot of people that don't. Yeah. And he's an interesting guy. So I'm gonna touch on him now as a little bit of a teaser for you all, and then you'll have to head over to Unhinged because I will cover it on there, I think. So Arster Crowley, why is he sometimes known as the wickedest man in the world? Oh, by some, not by me. Yeah, I'm a bit wicked myself, you know. Takes one to no one anyway. On the 26th of March 1929, so we are going back a little bit. There was an occult publisher back in the day called Mandrake Press. Yes. Have you heard of Mandrake Press? Okay, and it began circulating copies um of this magical diary of the man we know as Alistair Crowley. And uh the tabloids back then did call him the wickedest man in the world, but to his followers, he was like this spiritual pioneer, and to historians it was much more complicated. So he had many facets depending on who was looking at him. Yes, his followers waited on every word and believed everything that he believed, and he was very influential on how he put himself across. He didn't always start out this way, but unlike a lot of us deviants, he had a Christian background, of course, very common Christian background, born in 1875 as well, so back then probably worse than us. Yes, yeah, and his parents belonged to a really religious sect uh in Plymouth. It's called the Plymouth Brethren, and um the they emphasized like strict morals and obedience and very literal to the to the Bible, and Crowley hated it. Yeah, hated it. He rebelled from a very young age, rebels against religion and everything that his parents believed in. Which, you know, it's not uncommon, is it? He began exploring things like um philosophy, theology, mysticism, literature, all that kind of thing. And by his twenties, he joined one of the most influential cults uh at the time, a cult society, sorry. It was called the Hermatic Order of the Golden Dawn.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:34

He's interested already, anyway.

SPEAKER_01 35:36

I like him.

SPEAKER_00 35:37

It was a secret of magical organization, and it blended elements of like ceremony, magic, mysticism, astrology, alchemy, um, and like ancient mythology. So it put all these things together, and it had like the members were like intellectuals, writers, thinkers, artists, yes, you know, eccentrics. And Crowley quickly gained a reputation amongst this circle as being somebody who was interesting at interesting points and someone to listen to. Yeah. And one of the main things I want to get across today, because I'm not going to go into all those little facets, he believed that a physical experience is powered by human emotion. Let me take this further. He calls it sex magic. Oh, okay. He believed that at the moment of orgasm, it released this surge of energy and he calls it a magical force. And in his view, you could direct that energy to influence an outside whatever a person, a thing, the environment, or whatever. So it's almost like bottling an orgasm.

SPEAKER_02 36:49

I like that idea.

SPEAKER_00 36:51

So he's like, you come your orgasm and you direct it into something because it's that powerful, it's got a magical force. And with will, you can make it do anything. Brilliant. I love that. Yeah. Told in a simplistic form, that's sort of what he was getting at, really. Yeah. So, anyway, like I said, I'm not going to go into loads and loads and loads, but he believed that every individual has like a true will, a deeper purpose in life, that it was their destiny to discover it, follow it, and learn it, enjoy it, entrench themselves in it. We've all got a path and a deeper purpose. So I quite like some of the things he's talking about. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Crowley's personal lifestyle, it it did very little to um calm critics. And if anything, it just fired them up. They just waited for his next little revelation. And he didn't try and calm them. He wanted to beat them, if you like, yeah. He'd host these uh elaborate rituals involving cloaks, you know, symbol symbolistic type things, um, elaborate ceremonies, and they involved sexual acts, but symbolic sexual acts. So it was like a swingers club, it was very eyes wide shut. Got yeah. And newspapers got onto it and they were all over it.

SPEAKER_01 38:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

I personally think that um they blew it up, they spread stories about wild parties, strange rituals, moral corruption. I mean, what they could have actually been is a group of non-monogamous people who were just into you know a bit of wicker or something, you know. And the tabloid have just spun it into these wild ritualistic orgies, devil worshipping that, you know. So, and we know that some of them were entirely fabricated. Yes, but there were elements of truth in there, yeah. And uh again, Crowley didn't discourage the media from doing it, he liked the fact that they were all over it and they were sensationalising it. In his opinion, it's like, well, there's a little bit of truth in there, it makes people sit up and think about it, then it's working.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

Fair enough.

SPEAKER_00 39:00

And if you want to learn the actual truth, they'll come and come and join our society, yeah. So his influence eventually spread far beyond the occult community because even though he was in an occult circle, a lot of what he was saying, people were seeing parallels in other areas. So occult and spiritualism aren't necessarily the same thing. Yeah, so spiritualist circles, wellness circles, okay, feminists as well at the time were seeing some parallels, yeah. In other words, he was saying that we've got a purpose, follow that purpose, or follow that path. And so some feminists even were like quite like this. Okay, they might have started that way and then might have descended into a little bit of darkness. Of course. He was being heard by different people, yes, yeah. So um it did spread beyond those circles, and um there's elements of Crowley's philosophy in modern ceremonial magic, white magic, uh, chaos magic. I don't know much about chaos magic, and like psychedelic culture. Okay, so like mushroom taking and tapping into whatever, yeah. Um, and even some real well, a lot of ritualistic BDSM stuff. Okay. So a lot of the stuff that I do is quite ceremonial. I did one recently, just before Christmas. In fact, it was no, it wasn't before Christmas, it was New Year's Eve Eve. Uh, have talked about it before, and we did uh a scene to music, and it's very much my sub was they were giving themselves to me. What's the words I'm looking for, sissy? They were my they were giving themselves to me. Offerings, not an offering, but that'll do. Okay, yeah. And the whole thing was a ritual. I I approached them. We both had cloaks to music, it was very atmospheric, you know. And so I totally get this. Yes, and I'm not into the occult or Satanism or nothing like that. I sort of understand it from some of the podcasts that I listen to. I'm not against it. I think Satanism and all that is very, very misunderstood. Absolutely. And there's some aspects of that which come into BDSM.

SPEAKER_02 41:08

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

So I get it, I like it, and I like using some of it, and I know a lot of other people do too. So a lot of what he's done has been passed down and then sort of spread out into other areas.

SPEAKER_01 41:21

How interesting.

SPEAKER_00 41:21

All these different people have found part of themselves in him or what he's saying in his diaries. Um, so he's had quite a far-reaching influence, really. Master Crowley. Yeah. He died in 1947, but his reputation continued to grow more after he died. Okay. So he was very influential when he was alive, but then when he died, it was almost like um he became iconic in certain circles. Yes. Uh remembered for good and bad reasons. Of course. Obviously, there's a lot of religious groups, we were totally against what he did, absolutely, and put a very evil spin on what he was doing, and maybe spun some lies for their own agenda as well. But regardless, I think he still is a little bit of a mystery because he did give a lot of himself, but not everything. He liked to be a man of intrigue, he liked to keep people guessing, and he now still remains one of the most controversial figures in occult history, for sure. You know, some say he was a charlotte, others say he was a visionary. That's so interesting. Um, I think he was just as mad eccentric, very, very intelligent guy who was like a sponge, soaking up. If you think of going back to the circles he was mixing in, they were all like they were intellectuals, artists, all this. Absolutely. I think he was just soaking up all these different personalities and educating them. By the sounds of it, yeah. And I think he just took facets of all the things that he liked and created this sort of circle of people who were like him. How fast and there was occult tendencies in there, and there's sexual practices. I loved the fact that he thought that an orgasm uh with this ball of energy that you could um encapsulate and weaponise, maybe. How fabulous is that though? I mean, that's amazing. I mean, what a way to think in then back then, yeah. Uh and I'd love to think there's people out there now who believe this. And if you are one of them, please get in touch and I'll interview you because I I want to know why and how, and if you actually do encapsulate your orgasm and do stuff with it, how do you do it? Tell me. Um that'd be fascinating. I just I'd love to have a mind and an imagination that can take something like that and just run with it.

SPEAKER_01 43:39

Oh, it'd be fabulous, wouldn't it? Absolutely, boss. It would be absolutely fabulous. I love that. So what do you think about Alistair Crowley? I'm very interested. I need to go and learn more about him immediately. That's tonight, sorted.

SPEAKER_00 43:49

I mean, that's just a whistle stop tour.

SPEAKER_01 43:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 43:52

You know, I can go into loads of things and there's been an awful lot of books, there's podcasts out there that talk about him. That's why I haven't. Done it on a main episode because he's he has been done a loss. Yeah. But I think for an unhinged, you know, looking into that psychology behind and all these different facets. And what did he really think about this orgasm thing and this energy and you know how we we use it? I want to know more.

SPEAKER_01 44:17

Absolutely. No, I'm so intrigued.

SPEAKER_00 44:19

So, yeah, I'm gonna dig a little bit deeper. Right then. So I'm gonna have a biscuit. Okay. And a swig of me drink, I drank me tea and lemonade now. And uh we're gonna hand over to you. Fabulous. Tell me a little bit more about where you've been.

SPEAKER_01 44:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

And your your subject and how it links in. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 44:38

So over the last few days I have spent time in York, which is one of my favourite cities. It is fabulous. It's so dark, macabre, spooky. It's all highway men and ghosts, and it's very much my kind, I think.

SPEAKER_00 44:51

I saw you went to the ghost shop.

SPEAKER_01 44:53

I did go to the ghost. Of course I had to get a ghost.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

So tell me what about that? Because I didn't know about the ghost shop until I went, and other people wouldn't know. So tell them a little bit about the ghost shop. It's cute.

SPEAKER_01 45:02

So the ghost shop is gorgeous, and essentially they make these ghosts that are like there's a specific kind of clay, and they never really disclose what, but it makes it really hard to break them. They are all hand painted, so every single one is completely unique. Um so some might have similar colours, they're not gonna be the same. Um, and it's like a rite of passage for people going to York now. Every time I've been in the last few years, I've got a ghost.

SPEAKER_02 45:27

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 45:28

But you need to get there before it opens, or you will queue for at least two hours. Really? Just for a ghost? Uh I queued for an hour and a half from I got there at quarter past nine, we got in at half ten, and it opens at ten o'clock. But that was only because we were right at the front.

SPEAKER_00 45:44

It's mad, isn't it? Because as far as I know, the ghost shop isn't linked to anything specific apart from York being ghost a haunted type place. Yeah. And the ghosts, there's no real like stories behind they all look the same, they're all the same shape, although all the colours are different. They're very cute, they're very stereotypical sheet over somebody with little eyes.

SPEAKER_01 46:04

Absolutely. Yeah. Because you get ghosts and phantoms, and the only difference is that phantoms have like little teardrops coming from them, and they're really cute.

SPEAKER_00 46:10

They're very cute. And I like that they've kept it stereotypical. It's something that we can all like relate to. Yeah. But the fact they're all different colours as well makes them. It's fun.

SPEAKER_01 46:18

It is very gimmicky. I don't know what it's just about. I don't understand. I understand that it's in the shambles, and the shambles is inherently creepy. It's very, very it's like stepping back in time for those who haven't been to York. It is beautiful. But at the same time, it's uh it's a a long wait for a bit of climb.

SPEAKER_02 46:37

It is, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_01 46:38

It is, but it was it was worth it for me because I got there early. But at the same time, I mean I do it every time I go and I say, I'm not getting another ghost. And then I come home with two more. Uh I can't stop. I've got like a little ghost family in my house.

SPEAKER_00 46:50

A little ghost problem.

SPEAKER_01 46:51

I have got a ghost problem. It's it's a serious problem. It's a problem that cost me like 30 quid. So the big ones are like I'm like the big ones are like 17 or 18 pounds, and the tiny little ones are like a tenner. Like, they're not cheap. Fucking hell. Yeah no. And then Steve O got a ghost as well, and we're like, we are like it's it's a little gold mine, that place, but they must make a fortune because they're so expensive. They have two of the shops now as well. So you've got the one on the shambles, and they've got another one called the dispensary, which I haven't been to, but apparently the queues aren't as long at the dispensary. But they're the exact same thing, they're both choke all the time.

SPEAKER_00 47:28

They must make a mint. You didn't and you bought two. Steve O bought one. That's three uh three ghosts between two of you, haven't queued for an hour and whatever. Uh-huh. And everybody else in the queue, that's a lot of money.

SPEAKER_01 47:41

Well, they walk to the back of the queue, like the people at work there, they were walking to the back of the queue, which was round the corner, but you could hear them shouting. They were like, the queue for you will be at least two and a half hours. Wow. And I'm like, oh my god, okay. Yeah, it's ridiculous. But it the very cute ghosts, they just make an absolute mint. It's unbelievable. I wonder if it's like the oral sound just at the weekend. No, it's like I've been there in the week and it like because tourists will go all the time. It's a touristy city. Oh, you'd be made up. You'd be made up, wouldn't you? You'd be minted. I bet the rent's quite high there on the shambles. Oh, we'll be on the shambles, I'm assuming. Yeah. But anyway, anyway.

SPEAKER_00 48:16

We've got the little ghosty shop thing there.

SPEAKER_01 48:18

We've done the ghost shop. I did the most amazing tour, briefly mentioned it to you. Um the gory walking tour of York was phenomenal. Um, the tour guides, I don't know how she remembered everyone's name, but she did. She was fab, very much in character, telling you all about Guy Fox, who, by the way, did you know his name is Guido Fox? No, his name's Guido. So basically, he was born a Protestant, right? He grew a bit older and got like really into Catholicism because it wasn't allowed, basically, and he was a bit of a rebel. So he was like, I'm gonna be a Protestant I'm gonna be a Catholic, sorry. Um, and so he got involved with the Spanish Catholics, changed his name legally to Guido Fox.

SPEAKER_00 48:56

I was gonna say Guido sounds Spanish.

SPEAKER_01 48:58

Yeah, changed it to Guido because he didn't want to be guy anymore. How much? Isn't that fascinating? So, yeah, big Guido Fawkes telling us about him, heads on sticks, all that kind of story. Okay. Genuinely very, very interesting. It's good you get a good tour guy, they make the difference then. It doesn't half make a difference, absolutely. And you're doing your own tours as well. You've sort of got your professional hat on like critiquing absolutely, there was nothing to critique, she was fabulous, she was amazing. Um, but York's history is so rich in in the dark, the spooky, the horrible, horrible literally horrible history. Yeah, it's fabulous. It's perfect for that, isn't it? Absolutely, like everything spooky, weird, and dark seems to accumulate in York. Yeah. The ghost stories of like the Roman soldiers and things like that. All of that was fabulous. So, so interesting.

SPEAKER_00 49:41

Did recommend the the walk and tour?

SPEAKER_01 49:43

Oh, 100%. Cypher Dorid Calls again. So it's called The Bloody Tour of York.

SPEAKER_00 49:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 49:47

And they only have two tour guides. It did win best tour in it was either the UK or Europe as a walk-in tour. It's fabulous. It's usually ran by a woman called Mad Alice, but the lady I had was the other lady called Lady Peckett. Oh my god, I love their name. She was phenomenal. Both of them are named after women in York. So I think one of them like poisoned her husband, and then they all called her Mad Alice. Um, and then I can't remember what Lady Peckett's. Oh, Lady Peckett's one of the ghosts in the Golden Fleece pub. Okay. Uh, which is what a haunted pub in York.

SPEAKER_00 50:15

It's very cool.

SPEAKER_01 50:16

It's fabulous.

SPEAKER_00 50:17

Um it's all very on brand, isn't it? Even the words have got the names.

SPEAKER_01 50:21

Yeah, it was genuinely amazing. Um, so that was that was in York. And then the next day I went to Howarth and I cried, and it was very exciting, and that's where it ties into my topic. Go for it. Because I love a bad bitch of history, but what's the one thing I love more? It's a weird girl of history. I love weird, unhinged women who are unapologetically strange. And so I want to talk about our Lord and Saviour, Emily Bronte. Go for it! I think people know her as that girl that wrote that one book that now Jacob allows these in the film or don't get me started. Uh I haven't even seen the new film. I've put my foot up. I'm refusing. No. It's a bastardization of Emily's work, Vick, and I won't do it.

SPEAKER_00 51:02

Emily will not give it a moment of my time.

SPEAKER_01 51:04

I will simply not, first of all, the Cast Heathcliff is a white man. That's done my edit. But anyway, I've got many thoughts and I won't bore you with that. But I will, I will hopefully not bore you with my story about Emily Bronte being weird and unhinged, because I love her.

SPEAKER_00 51:17

Uh unless you just crumbled biscuits all the time.

SPEAKER_01 51:19

It was just the sheer excitement of hearing the word Emily Bronte for the fifth time in 20 seconds. That's what it was. I told you it's the excitement. I feel like that about Emily Bronte myself, so for those who aren't too familiar, hopefully people are, but for those who aren't, she wrote Wather and Heights. It's her one and only novel that she ever wrote. She never wrote anything else. She did some poems, her sisters wrote more books. We'll get on to the sisters shortly. Um, but Emily was, they were they were called the Weird Sisters. People knew them as weird because they were very much outsiders in their village. So their dad, Patrick Bronte, was Irish. He brought them up. He was a very religious, deeply religious man, Patrick Bronte. There was originally six siblings, two of them died pretty, pretty quick in Emily's childhood. So the four main ones were Charlotte was the oldest of the main Brontes, if you like, that that didn't die ridiculously young. Then there was Bramwell Bronte.

unknown 52:15

Bramwell.

SPEAKER_01 52:16

Bramwell Bronte, I know. Great name. He was a very interesting character, and we will briefly touch on him. Then there was Emily, then there was Anne. So the three girls were all writers. Yeah. They were fabulous, but they were outsiders because they had a bit of a funny accent because their dad was Irish and he kept them very like together. They didn't really mingle, but then people didn't want to mingle with them either. So they were very much always like, oh, they're the weird lot up there, up there at the parsonage. They're a bit strange. Although Patrick Bronte was like the I don't know if it's a priest in a par in a the church or a reverend or whatever it was, he was that guy. The religious guy. Yes, he was he was the head honcho of the religious guy in the church and he'd do all the services and stuff. So people would go to his kind of sermons and hear him speak and everything. Um, but they were classed as weird because they didn't sound like everyone else, they didn't act like everyone else. They were very highly educated women.

SPEAKER_02 53:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 53:10

Patrick Bronte, the dad, ensured that they were highly educated, along with his sister, who was called Aunt Branwell. Um, so because they all have the same name. Which for those who have read Wather in Heights will explain everything, because they all have like the same name. There's like a million Cathees, and it gets a bit ridiculous. But anyway, Aunt Branwell. So they ensured that they from a very young age were learning Latin, they were reading like novels, they were reading the Arabian Nights by the time they were talking about. They were privately tutored to begin with, because they basically their dad wanted to ensure that they were highly educated. They were really talented artists, um, all three of them, all three of the girls. Bramwell, questionably. Um, but the the three girls were very, very talented in everything. They could like play instruments. Emily was apparently very good at the piano, um, all of them, really arty, really clever, spoke a ridiculous amount of languages. Fast forward a bit in time. They uh so Charlotte and Emily get sent to uh Brussels, I think it was. They get sent over there and they are going to study over there. Uh, they're gonna learn French because at this point they already speak like Latin and a million other ones, but they haven't really done that much French. They do French and German, uh, and this is when we start getting essays from the girls in different languages. My favourite is one by Emily, uh, and it is called The Cat, where for a ridiculous amount of pages, Emily Bronte in French goes on a rant about why cats are better than people. Uh it basically is like, I like cats, cats are nice, and it's all very basic French, but she was just like, I'm having a good time writing about how much I love cats. In French, though? Charlotte Bronte's writing these incredible essays, like philosophy, and she's so intel, she was intelligent, I just don't like her, but she was very, very intelligent. Meanwhile, Emily Bronte is there, like, I like cats, cats aren't annoying, people are the end. Like she was spicy, neurospicy. Oh, 100%. Yeah, we will absolutely dive into her neurospiciness because there is no way she wasn't with the way she just existed in her life. Um, and I think there's a lot of things I see of myself in her, and there's an awful lot of things in her that I'm like, that's not me, get that away from me. She was odd, she was bizarre. Um, but yeah, so they did go to Brussels, they then got basically summoned back, essentially, because there was stuff going on with the family. Aunt Bramwell wasn't doing too great. Um, and so Emily was like, right, time to go home. Charlotte didn't want to, but they came home. So, how old would she have been then? So she would have been a teenager then, so she wasn't particularly old. Now, they went back to the parsonage and they started working on the books. Now, Emily and Anne were very, very close. Charlotte was one on her own. Emily and Anne were close, they would walk around, they were making stories together as kids. They made up like this fantasy world as kids. Genuinely incredible, but we don't have much of Emily's work there. When it comes to they're that little bit older, Emily then carves a letter E into a table so no one takes her place. Because that's Emily's spot. No one has Emily's spot. But they would walk around the table and tell each other stories, which is how we came to get the stories that we have from the Bronte sisters now. Charlotte thought she was the most intelligent, and so she would tend to babble on quite a bit. Take over the convo. Very much so. Whereas when you get to Anne and Emily, they'd kind of like talk between themselves and also kind of be like laughing along, kind of thing. And it was a really nice dynamic for these three women who were writing books at the same time. They also knew they couldn't publish as women at the time. That was not a done thing. So we had Cora Bell was Charlotte. Okay, Ellis Bell was Emily, and Acton Bell was Anne Bronte. Acton? Acton? Great name, Acton Bell. So, yes, Emily's come back, they're writing these books. Now, Emily's not got friends. Charlotte has. Charlotte has quite a lot of friends. She has this massive wedding. Everyone goes in the end because people have come around to her now. She's older, she's a teacher, she was teaching for a while. Um, so people get to know her. So Charlotte's surrounded by quite a lot of people. Anne Bronte goes, Sack this off. She runs off to Scarborough. She's had enough, right? So now big goth. Yeah, basically, she's been a big goth in Scarborough, and I love her. Emily chooses not to have friends, she doesn't want them. What she does want is a highly inappropriate relationship with Bramwell. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know this. So when we look at- I didn't know this and Nora knows shit like this. Have you read Wather and Heights by any chance? No. No, okay. So a lot of the three girls all based characters on their brother. So Bramwell was an alcoholic, he suffered with an opium addiction. He was a very destructive man, a highly destructive man. And also it must have been killing him that his sisters were doing so much better. In a time when it was men that were doing everything, that must have absolutely been destroying him. Dint in his armour, his male masculinity. Absolutely. So when Emily's writing Mother and Heights, what people don't realise is Kathy and Heathcliff are half-brother and sister.

unknown 58:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 58:00

And so it's a very destructive, they they never end up together in the book. It's a very destructive, violent, horrible, revenge-fuelled relationship. He's based on Brownwell.

SPEAKER_04 58:11

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 58:11

Yeah, there's also a character in there who is also an alcoholic and things. A lot of them based the men on Branwell. You can see who was close with him and who wasn't completely by how they write. So Anne wrote a book called Tenant of Wildfell Hall about domestic violence. It was the most controversial book in its day because there's no way a woman could have wrote that when that came out. And they all said Branwell could have written it. Bramwell was off his face. Bramwell's not writing anything. You know, Bramwell is unfortunately not capable. It's quite a forward-thinking book for its time for a woman, especially. The tenant of Wildfell Hall was incredible. For anybody writing that at that time. Yeah. But Wuther and Heights touches on it as well. Emily had a very complicated relationship with Bramwell, whereas she didn't want any friends, she didn't want to be around anyone other than Bramwell. Questionably not ideal. Emily, kind of gross, if you ask me. But she absolutely loved her brother. And yeah, that's why she wrote Heathcliff the way she did, where he was so complex. Because people, when you read the book, you're not meant to like him. No. But you do feel a level of sympathy for him. Yeah. That's what Emily was going to do.

SPEAKER_00 59:13

It's often the case, though, isn't it? With like lovable rogue. Yes. Bit more than a rogue by the sounds of it. But when some of these are that bad, you see that they're a bit broker, and then you get a bit of sympathy with them, then don't you? Very much. Sympathy, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 59:26

So she was having a relationship with the brother? Yes. That's pretty much been like all the historians are like, yeah, that's very, very likely what was going on. So she never close. No. She never outrightly said it, but in everything she did within her kind of her works, you can very much see. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 59:44

A bit a bit too much experience around the brother to just be guesswork, basically.

SPEAKER_01 59:50

Basically, yeah. And when we get to kind of the end of her life, we'll we'll touch on Bramwell again. Because oh my god, it was it was chaos. So critics of when she brought out her work, obviously I've said they did it under a fake name because they need to do a man's name. The critics hated these books because they were outrageous. Not so much when it came to Charlotte's work. Charlotte's is a bit more lovey-dovey. And it's I mean, at the time it would have been interesting. I've read every Bronte novel. Charlotte is my least favourite, but she thought she was the most intelligent, which is very annoying. Um, but especially Anne and Emily, theirs were shocking. Like Wuther and Heights touches on marital rape, it touches on domestic violence, alcoholism, racism is a massive plot point of Wuther and Heights. So she intentionally wrote Heathcliff to be a person of colour, um, because a lot of what he does later on in the book is fuelled by revenge of how he has been treated. He is described as having dark skin, even in the first chapter, which is why people kicked off about Jacob Balordi, myself included, um, and Tom Harvey, who's who's very hot, but he's not my Heathcliff. Um, so yes, they were controversial, and like we mentioned with Anne Bronte, with tenant of Wildfell Hall, that was an outrageous book for a woman to have written at the time. She did it anyway. I don't think I realize the subject matter was so risque.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:09

Yes, they are dark books. Do you know what I mean? I did English literature as an A level. Um I'm well read. Yeah. But I was a more like D. H. Lawrence and stuff like that. The Bronte sisters never came onto our curriculum at all. I think it was just the way it was for us at the time. We were doing other things. Um, I might give them a little read.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:30

If you want to borrow any, I have I I have got Jane Eyre, which I'm not a big fan of, but if you don't know the twist, it's quite good. I unfortunately did. I've got, I think, nine or ten copies of Wather and Heights because I collect them because it's a book that left such an impression on me when I was quite young. I first read it when I was 15, and I've just been attached to it since because it's so gritty. The point of it is you don't like the people in there. No, which I can't think of that many books where it's intentionally written to hate everyone. They're all terrible. It's gritty.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:58

It's mad though. She must have this must have been stuff that she's learned and seen. She's lived it. You can't make some of this stuff up. What are you saying about racism and domestic violence and marital rape? This is not stuff that you just imagine. No, it's not. You've got to have seen it or heard it, lived it, somebody told you about it, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:19

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:20

You just can't make it up.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:21

There was a really a fantastic part in the Bronte parsonage, and they have a whole section about Heathcliff's racial identity. Um, and and they've basically said it was quite commonplace for people of colour to be living in Yorkshire at the time. She would have known people of colour and she would have seen that racism. I mean, Charlotte was outrightly racist in airwork when you're reading things. Well, I can't remember whether it was The Let or Shirley, it's one of um Charlotte's books, where she is outrightly racist. Emily is the polar opposite. Emily is the one that's like, no, look at what happens when you can mistreat someone this badly. Look at the consequences of those actions. And I think that's so powerful for a woman, for a woman to write. Yeah. Back then, what an amazing like this is the 1840s.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:04

Very forward thinking.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:05

It's insane.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:06

In a time when most of the people weren't thinking that way to be fair. Racism was normal.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:10

It was commonplace. It was absolutely normal. Very, very forward thinking. What an interesting lady. So then, as we've said, Anne Bronte, she's boogered off to Scarborough, she's buried in Scarborough, she's the only one not with the rest of the family because she chose to be looking out onto the sea. Oh, nice later. Yeah, so do I. But essentially, all the family were dying off of tuberculosis. Uh so Emily, well, Bramwell was the first to go off the top of my head. And we don't, she was elsewhere. Yeah, FLA at slash brother, um, was the first to go. Now his immune system was very, very weak due to his alcoholism and his opium addiction. So he dies. At the time, if you were going to die, and you kind of knew you were going, it was Victorian custom that you went to bed to die. Okay. Emily chose to die on the couch by a portrait of her brother. Okay. See, this is what I mean. Weird girl. Weird, weird girl. And all the signs are pointing to that was a fella. Yeah. Basically. But she so the grief would have killed her off quicker because she was refusing to eat. They said, you know, you love walking on the moors. Come for a walk. No, I will lie here and I will die. And that is exactly what she did. So how far how long after Bramwell died? Did she die? Within a few months. It was very, very quick. How old were they? So I can't remember how old Bramwell was off the top of my head, but Emily Bronte was 30 when she died.

unknown 1:04:33

Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:34

Yeah. Were they all young? They were all young. Charlotte outlived them, but not by much. It was a couple of years that she outlived them by.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:41

But she was the oldest as well, wasn't she?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:42

Out of the four remaining Bronte. She's the oldest and the oldest. The dad outlived all of them. Really? The dad outlived every single one. Patrick Bronte outlived all of them. Yeah. But Charlotte was the last one to go. However, after Emily died, Charlotte decided to edit Wuthering Heights herself. So the copy we have now is edited because Charlotte thought she was the better writer and Emily was too weird. Is there any original copies still out there? There is first editions, but they are about 18 grand. Uh and you don't really have access to the original. So the original manuscripts that we had, they were all handwritten, obviously, at the time. But at the same time, Charlotte was very, very close with the publishers. So they were basically gone. We have a couple left, but there were quite big changes made.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:26

Unless it's all a museums or something.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:28

The Bronte Parsonage has one.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:29

It has got one.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:30

The museum has one.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:31

It'd be good to see the original. It would be very good.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:33

It would be very good. But yeah, Charlotte made sure they were kind of arrays to get rid of them. My one.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:39

My edition is better. Why you had such disdain for her? Because she kept Charlotte's. Bloody Charlotte. Charlotte thought she was now you've come to the conclusion. I'm like, oh, bit of a cunt. Yeah, she's horrible, isn't she?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:52

Little rat. After she died. That's very cheeky. Yeah. Well, she basically said there's probably grammatical. Errors. The people at the publishers sorted the grammatic. That was the point of them being there back in the day. But she was b basically had come out and said, I am the better writer. She though to kind of loosely quote her, that is what she has said. I am the better author of the three of us. I have made a amendment to it.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:19

So out of the three, they've all obviously been authors. Who would you say was actually the most successful?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:26

Oh do you know? I think it's hard. So Emily's Wutherin Heights is so well known, it is so famous. There's been so many terrible adaptions of it. Um, because they just can't get it right, but that is what it is. And Wuther and Heights is just it's incredible and it's it was groundbreaking. So for me, as someone who I mean, I studied Wuther and Heights in school. Um, I would say Emily was probably, even though she only ever wrote the one novel, was the most successful. After that, Charlotte absolutely was. Anne gets known as the forgotten Bronte. Everyone kind of forgets her work, even though she was groundbreaking. So she was the tenant of Wildfell Hall, the domestic violence one. That's right. And she also wrote a book called Agnes Grey, which honestly it's it's not very gritty, but it did make me laugh. There's a kid in Agnes Grey who can't stop swearing. Now, for a woman to write this book back then is objectively very funny. This kid kept calling people sluts. Fantastic. Yeah. It was outrageous. She might have done. She might have done. But Agnes Grey was genuinely a brilliant book. I didn't enjoy really many of Charlotte's books. I've read all four. Didn't love that.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:29

But I think also you've you've also got this knowledge and preconceived of the idea. Yes. It's hard to get past that, isn't it? Absolutely, it is. When you've already formed an opinion of somebody, it's hard to then go indulge and enjoy their work.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:41

Absolutely. And I think a part of my problem is that I don't read romance. I've tried Jane Austen because I'm like, oh, same time period. Bores the life out of me. Too lovely dovey. Charlotte's a more lovely dovey.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:52

And I I just can't take that at all. Whereas Emily and Anne, they were going through it. Dark. They would they went dark. I mean, it's gothic literature for a reason. Um, they went Charlotte kind of touches on it in Jane Eyre, but she never really gets there. Whereas Anne and Emily, I mean, from the get-go in Wother and Heights, you've got in the opening chapter, this guy gets bitten by a dog. There's hints of domestic violence there, there's racial abuse going on. Everything happens in the first few chapters. In chapter three of Wother and Heights, a ghost appears, and this guy tries to slash the ghost's wrists open on a windowpane. It's dark. It's really, really gritty. It is just such an incredible misunderstood ghost. No, literally. It's unbelievable. But a lot of people misinterpret it because they've heard of Wather and Heights. They might have seen a film. They think it's going to be a romance. It's not even close. Okay, I might read it now and then, because that's exactly my own. I promise. I don't read romance. Romance makes me sick. And if I'm telling you it's one of my I mean, I've got you can't say. I've got a t-shirt on that says Wather and Heights, and it starts with the first page of the first chapter, which starts at 1801. I've just returned from a visit to my landlord, and it is one of my favourite books ever, ever, ever. And I will bring you a copy. I did yeah, I was really excited about it. I made my showl, which people also can't say too much the t-shirt, because I loved it so much. Thank you very much. So there's my fun fact about Emily Bronte, the dramatic girl through her whole life. What an interesting woman.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:22

I had no idea. Weird girl. And because I never studied any of the Bronte novels, I've not really taken any time to look into them. I think you do when you get into a novel or a series, you then look into the author and stuff. But I've never really been interested. But um God, she's quirky as fuck. She's dead weird.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:40

All three of them were quite weird. She was the weirdest. She was. There's definitely more going on. That just wasn't diagnosable back in the 1800s. No. Did you mention them their mum? Their mum, so she died when they were really, really young. Okay. You don't know if she was like very clever or anything. They don't know a huge amount about it. Well, Patrick Bronte was he was known to be very, very cold. People weren't really a fan of him, but he he did do the preachy bit down at the church. Um where the Bronte Crypt is now. Actually, so I went and cried at the crypt uh yesterday, which was delightful. Uh, because I just I just really love Emily. I was like, Charlotte's like, I did cry, it was really embarrassing. I thought I've loved these people for a really long time. I don't cry in front of people, I was so embarrassed. But um, I was like, okay, at the parsonage I might cry. So they have the couch that Emily died on.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:26

Oh right.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:26

And as soon as I saw it, I was like, oh my god, that's the couch. Oh my god. Is it the actual couch? Yes, it actually is. It's their house, it's their belongings, it's all their things in there. There's a couple of recreations of pictures because those pictures have been moved to the national galleries and stuff. Branwell's pictures where he painted him and the sisters and then painted himself out of it. No one really knows why. He was just a very strange man. Just falling out with them or something that week. He was just off his face, probably, and thought, oh no, I don't quite look like that. Paint myself out of it again. Yeah, I'm very spoiler man. I'll take yourself out of it. Very peculiar fella. But no, that couch is the couch. They have the comb that Emily was brushing her hair with just before she died because she dropped it in the fire.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:03

No way.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:03

It's it's incredible the stuff that they have. But like I say, weird girl. I didn't cry at the couch, but I thought I was going to did cry when I went to see the crypt. Oh, I know. But she's but she's meant something to me for like literally half of my life. I've read it when I was 15 at 1030 this year, literally half my life. So it was a really beautiful. You've also found a connection, haven't you, with her? I just love weird people.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:25

Isn't it funny the way you do that though? Not just you, anybody. You just find a connection with somebody that you know, it goes a little bit deeper than just admiring the words. Absolutely. You find a connection, I recognise parts of me in you.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:37

Fight me with that body. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Same thing again. I just love weird women. Weird, unhinged, slightly angry women. I'm like, you're great. I love you. I know, I know Emily was a little bit too close with her brother, like, but other than that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:50

We shouldn't have been the first in history, really. I'm not saying I'm condoning it, but you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:54

But it was the thing that happened back in the day and had the right idea. It's the dumb thing. And had the right idea. Sacked it off.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:02

So there you go. You're a crafty storyteller. Thank you. I appreciate it. Um, and uh you've definitely inspired me to maybe give Wather and Heights a read now that I know it's not romantic. Yeah. So if you don't like romantic, have you read any of D. H. Lawrence? Have you read uh like A Ruin of the View? Yes, I have. Have you seen the film A Ruin of the View with Helena Bon Carter? I haven't. Have you read any other of his novels? No. So A Rue with a View, I actually I read that in school and I read it for me, English literature. And then I saw the movie with Helena Boncarta. And I don't know, I read the book and I loved it. And when I went on to watch the the film, I was a bit like they're gonna spoil it.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:47

It was just, I just, I don't know, it moved me in ways. Oh, fabulous. I'd never been moved before. This is a long time ago now. And it's just something about this age-old innocence of you know, you don't just meet a guy and go home for a one-night stand, a little bit of a shag and go. Yeah, it's all about the wooing and does he like me, does he not? I get I get it was just it just took me breath away. It really, really did. And it inspired me to read other books out. Yeah. And there's a brilliant one, I don't think it's ever been made into a film called Morris. Okay. And that is about a gay relationship, a male gay relationship at a time when it was illegal. Of course. You know, you could not put it out there at all. And um the one of the guys was wealthy, intelligent, landowner, at his own house, and he fell in love with his gardener.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:38

I mean, it's it's his source of romantic, but in a very homosexual way, male homosexual way. So there was sort of like romance and wooing, but then there's also the primal side of when two men in love get together. It's not always romantic, you know. But it just got me because it's like it's this tale of again forbidden love in a time when it shouldn't be, and it it was sort of beautiful, but also ugly in that it what because it wasn't allowed, it was like people were like, ooh, God, what a book. What a book. So I do love the classics. I got ya. So it's not like I haven't read them because I don't like those sorts of stories. I just it didn't come into my stratus for you.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:23

I completely got it.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:24

And then when it did, I was like, nah, too smoochy.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:27

Yeah, not at all. Unless you're into half brothers and sisters violence. I'm all over it, mate. I'm all over it. I'm bringing a copy. What are we many? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:36

Right, so we're gonna move on because we've been gabbling a little bit. You didn't give me me a far buzzer. Oh there you go. You haven't got the clock, I have, and I didn't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:48

No, you didn't give me the wig, you just left me to ramble on about early bloody random.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:51

I'm so enthralled, you see. Thank you. Do you know what? We're gonna do uh a lazy lobotomy. Oh. I have got a fetish factory, but it's very, very quick. You can answer me when I do a lazy lobotomy. Um, and I don't know how I'm gonna answer it yet. So I thought I'd get your take on it to see what you think.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:08

I'm intrigued.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:10

Dear Lady Lobotomy. A few months ago, my partner sat me down. This is a guy who's got a female partner. A few months ago, my partner sat me down and told me they don't feel sexual attraction anymore. Not to me, not to anyone. They said they still love me very deeply and don't want to be with anybody else, and I believe them. There's no drama, no cheating, no big fallout. On the surface, we're still solid, we still laugh, we support each other, we share a life. But physically, something has changed, and I feel like we've drifted from lovers into something closer to friends or roommates. Okay. I miss being wanted.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:45

Oh god, that's so sad.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:47

It just broke my little fucking cold heart when I read that. Um I miss being wanted, not just the sex itself, but the feeling of being desired. I feel guilty admitting that because I didn't choose this and I don't want to make them feel bad. I feel selfish that I want more, but like most men, I have needs. I won't cheese and I won't go to places like Townhouse. But what I what but what do I do in a very loving but sexless marriage?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:11

God. It's so complicated, isn't it, when you you come to talk about kind of sexuality and and sexual desire. Do you want to say more than attraction?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:20

What I can't get from this is I don't know whether they've been I think they've been married for years by the sounds of it. I don't think they've got kids at home. I think that has passed. I think they're on their own now by the sounds of it. I get the feeling they could be around my age. Okay. Just from reading how comfortable, I suppose, where they are in their relationship.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:41

And the way it's written, I feel like this is a very well-established couple who know each other inside now, but they've just come to this sort of point of she doesn't want sex anymore.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:52

Part of me is thinking if that's the case in the are my age issue around the menopausal age. Yeah. And it could be, you know, that um her estrogen is in her boots and she might just need a little help in hand. Oh, we were doing weird things here. Mate. Oh, you know, before I had HRT, you didn't know what was coming, didn't we? You didn't know what you were getting from one day to the next, you know. And we've talked loads about uh male testosterone and the effects that has on men, you know, and the amount of people, Sissy. I can't tell you how many of our friends have come to us, me and Jim, and said, no, thanks for that chat. I'm telling you more about testosterone. I'm on it now and I feel so much better. Other people are like, it's changed my life, other people have got more energy, they've lost weight, yeah, all that kind of thing, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:36

Hormones are crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:37

We can't underestimate the effect of hormones have on us when they're not there. Absolutely. So uh the first thing I'd say is maybe you know, a careful conversation around menopause. Absolutely. Um, if they acknowledge it or they take anything for it, they might not be able to, not everybody can. No. So maybe you know, having a chat to somebody about what they can do to maybe help themselves in other ways. So that might be one reason. I'm making big assumptions here because I don't know how hard they are. So if this isn't the case, then I have come across people who are asexual.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:13

Me too.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:14

Somebody that came to the club on a regular partner wasn't, they were. Yeah. Um and they loved each other very, very, very deeply. Very meaningful relationship. Um, just sex wasn't important, didn't even come as a stratosphere. Yeah, but um and I wouldn't mind massive penis as well. I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah, um, and there's others over the years as well, and they've sort of come to an understanding. So it might just mean a really honest conversation with each other and in a way that isn't sort of trying to pick holes or blaming, but I think they've said to this guy, I I just don't want sex anymore. I feel like he doesn't want to have the conversation because it says at the end of here, yeah, because he doesn't want to make them feel bad. I think he needs to.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:03

Yeah, it's not even necessarily about feeling bad, it's about understanding each other, yeah, where each other are coming from. You know, is that level of intimacy a necessity in your relationship? Because to some people it is. Yeah, have that conversation. It's hard, hard conversations are hard conversations for a reason, but they're necessary sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:20

Exactly. Um, so I think he needs to just sort of you're saying he doesn't want to make it feel bad, like we just said. I think if this is obviously on their mind, they've contacted me about it. Yeah, so it's obviously very important to this person. It isn't we're not having sex, they've put this down in writing. So therefore, it needs a very honest conversation. And I don't think there's anything wrong with saying what your needs are. Your partner has said what what how they feel. I don't really think that you have said how you feel.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:55

So I think this person needs to be honest, and how this is affecting them.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:00

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:01

Not in a blaming way, but in what they miss and why that closeness is maybe important. Um, and this is not to um persuade their partner to all of a sudden have sex, but like you said, it's to help their partner understand again and then hopefully that will open up a conversation, and then he may understand where she is and how and why she's come to this point. She's obviously said there's still you know she's told him she's still very much in love, but what is it about the sex? Is it like it's just physically a bit ick now? Again, menopause can make you feel a little bit like that. Maybe her body is changing and she doesn't like herself, and maybe she doesn't want to be naked and intimate because of that. Um maybe she's just come to a time in life where sex isn't important, she cherishes the love and the intimacy more rather than the act of fucky fucky. There's lots of reasons, and I don't think they've got to the bottom of it. It's just I don't want sex anymore. I still love you, but I don't want sex anymore. And I think the conversation needs to go a lot deeper than that because eventually he might start resenting her. And I think by the sounds of this, that he's nowhere near that point. He still loves her deeply. So before he gets to that point, I think the honest conversation needs to happen before that resentment goes. Absolutely. He does have needs, like he said, that he doesn't want to go to a place like Townhouse, but what are you gonna do in the meantime? He's still got those needs. How's he gonna communicate those to his partner? And as a couple, you know, how are they gonna meet each other's needs without compromising their themselves?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:34

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:36

So the the thing I can get out of this really is just honest open communication. There's no right and wrong answer in this. I think every relationship is so so so different. The outcome of this conversation could go anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:49

So I think that's the starting point, really.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:51

Just needs to be honest with each other at that point.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:53

It's it's a shame because by the sounds of it, they've enjoyed a good sex life in the past and now they're not. So I can imagine that to be a bit more.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:00

It's very difficult for everyone.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:01

Yeah, I mean, me and Jim have sex a lot, as we know. We've all we've said that a lot. Um, and if once one something happened to one of us and all of a sudden one of us didn't want to, we couldn't physically, it'd be quite difficult for the other person. Absolutely. It would be very understanding and it wouldn't affect us in any way. But sex is so important, we'd have to find a workaround. I get it.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:19

Absolutely, it would.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:21

So for this guy not to have it at all, is it must be quite difficult. Yeah, I get it. So anyway, I hope that has helped you. And um, stay in touch. If there's any developments and that you do have the conversation, you want to share that, feel free to contact me again. Absolutely. So, before we go, I'm going to do a very quick fetish factory. Okay. So, do you know? The muffin man. Got it this time. Somebody actually said, Well, the patrons that love their episode. Sissy Wednesday was great, but come on, Sissy, the muffin man.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:54

As if I haven't listened to every episode. I don't know what was wrong with me that day.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:59

They had a brave part, it's too over excited.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:02

Yeah, I was.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:03

So I just happened to be looking on a forum. Uh, I'd look up something BDSM, nothing to do with the fetish factoid. And somebody said, What does BDSM stand for? And you're like, What? It's obviously a vanilla, I'd no idea. They sort of knew they were on like a fetish-y type forum, but didn't know what the abbreviation actually stood for. So some of them, some people went, They gave alternatives. Of course. Me taking the piss out of this poor person who's asking a perfectly adjusted question, and they got a bit of a um a barrage of of beating Donald's saggy meat. Incredible. Bored and deprived soccer mum.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:48

Of course. They're the kind that are like really, really going for it to be fair.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:53

BDSM, brilliant. Bible discussion study meeting. Perfect. I would love it. And my personal fave, which apparently isn't made up, this does get used sometimes on like certain adult type forums. So BDSM, big dick, small mind.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:14

Perfect.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:17

So that is my personal fave.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:19

That's incredible.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:20

Yes. So there we have it. There we have it. Second episode in the bag. What a joy. Do you feel a little bit more in your groove? Yeah, I feel like.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:29

You weren't in your groove last time, right? But you did forget the muffin man. I did forget the muffin man, but that was because I forgot my brain. Um so yeah, I feel like I'm kind of settling in. Yeah. I just get to share my my knowledge of weird women.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:39

Really, really enjoyed that story. It was really good. Interesting. And uh nice little perspectives as well, which has uh spurred me on to have a look at the boo.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:48

Perfect. I'm all for getting people to read the book rather than go and see the stupid bloody film.

unknown 1:24:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:53

Stupid romance.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:56

Oh, they stopped this one halfway through the book, apparently. What's the point? They don't even bother with the second half.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:00

So they didn't even do a part two to finish it off. No. They obviously got bored of it themselves.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:04

Yeah, well, Emil Fennell's already admitted she didn't read the book or hasn't since she was about 14. So she's going off vibes and memory. It's what posh people can do when they get hold of the classics. It's annoying. And they've got so much money, it doesn't match everything. Exactly. Exactly. You cast Jake Balordi and Margot Robbie and you're laughing.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:20

Oh god. I'm not watching it.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:22

No. I've I've put my foot down. I'm not doing it. No, no. Not until it's like free on like Netflix or whatever, and then I'll get my notes out and I'll write all my notes of why it's wrong.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:31

You can then do a critique and publish it. I'd love to.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:34

Yeah. I'll write an essay. I'm good at write an essay is when I'm fuming. Angry typing keyboard warrior to Microsoft words.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:45

Right then, on that keyboard warrior bombshell. We're gonna go. Fabulous. Do you want to do the thing? Can you remember it or shall I? No, you don't when I'm scared. Can you remember it at all?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:56

Pop the kettle. If you've binge watching, no, if you've binge listening. See you in five. No? Yeah? Put the kettle on. Put the kettle on. See you in five. There you go. Close enough. You did this last time in a panic that I said the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:08

We got all the bits in different different things.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:11

They're all there. It's all intact somewhere. You can just sell a paper together easy. It's only a second episode. It's like an arts and crafts one.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:18

Is it a second episode that you've been pass off, but it's like the 127th that you've listened to. And we've been doing the binge listening one probably for about a hundred episodes now.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:29

Yeah, I'm quite aware, but I'm just I'm I'm thick and a switch off. I'm not judging at all. Judge me, it's fine.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:36

I totally am.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:37

You can see it in my eyes. I can. So next time I'm gonna hand it over to you, and you can't write it down. Oh, but you haven't seen me notes. That could have been well sneaky.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:45

Oh, before I go.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:46

See my notes today.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:48

So, right, there's a few things what we know today. Normally it's a very, very large font, as you know. In fact, there's one of them here. Hang on, hang on, hang on. That's how big it normally is. Yeah. But I've run out of paper.

unknown 1:27:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:02

I had about seven sheets of paper. So I've had to take out my old notes. Brilliant! Turn it over to print on the other side, which is what I've done there. Hilarious. But because I have I've only got seven pieces of paper, I had to reduce my font rate down to normal size. So it all fits on, look. But then that's more confusing because it's in small font 11, but it's on paper that's been printed on the other side in big fonts. Oh, hilarious. Which is coming through. So now I just feel like I'm just seeing loads of oh, that'd blow my head. I can't really see it very well at all. So the moral of the story is buy some paper, Vic, and continue printing on font 20. Sounds delightful. So we're gonna go.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:47

Cool. Rather it again.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:52

So if you binge listening, put the kettle on, we'll see you in five. If not, we'll see you next week. Bye. And there we have it! Another day made better by listening to the Curators of Chaos. Thanks for dropping by, and if you enjoyed the show, we'd really appreciate you sharing your love the Pad the Cell Podcast with your friends. Don't forget to give us a follow on our socials, maybe leave us some five-star reviews, and feel free to send us an email to Magic at thePadastellpodcast.co.uk or even interrupt us on Facebook because we love chatting to you. Be sure to stop by next week because, as Bowie says, I don't know where I'm going next, but I promise it won't be boring. Catch you soon.