EPISODE 139 - 'PRIDE at the Padded Cell Podcast'

Pride month takes centre stage as Vicky and Kev explore the surprising history behind the Pride Flag and how it evolved from a handstitched symbol into a global icon.

Discover the stories behind a secret language, same sex parents in the animal kingdom and the spectacular scale of São Paulo Pride, alongside the usual mix of strange history, a tear jerking Lady Lobotomy, and a Fetish Factoid that solidified Kev's gayness! 

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Recorded and Produced by Vicky at The Padded Cell Studios

Ep 1 - 120 recorded at: 

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Transcript

– Podcast intro

SPEAKER_05 0:00

Are you a deviant? You know, like those of us who binge watch serial killer programs, the stupid stuff people do, unrevel in anything else. Well, you found your people! Join us as we crack open the door to Pallast Cell and release the insanely stupid, the weirdly wonderful, and those who choose to live outside the size of noise. With elephants the strange, the macabre, the sexy and the outrageous! So if you're a deviant, then you have your placements in the Palacea. Hello everybody on

– Facebook live warm-up with Kev

SPEAKER_05 0:44

Facebook. We're just about to start recording episode 139 with our Kev. I'll show you Kev. Oh everyone! Woo! What the fuck was that?

SPEAKER_03 0:55

Fuck no.

SPEAKER_05 0:58

He's got his pride t-shirt on.

SPEAKER_02 1:00

Yeah. Why not, eh?

SPEAKER_05 1:02

I've got my pride laces on. I don't think I'd be able to see. Can I get my leg up?

SPEAKER_03 1:06

Yay!

SPEAKER_05 1:08

Pride boots and pride laces.

SPEAKER_03 1:10

Lovely, aren't they?

SPEAKER_05 1:12

It might have been easier to bring the nearest butt up.

SPEAKER_03 1:16

I'm just glad you're wearing trousers.

SPEAKER_05 1:21

Wouldn't put my leg up in the air if I had a scarce, hadn't they? I was gonna say you see me growler, but I don't have a growler. Don't you? I don't have a growler. He doesn't want to know that, gay man.

SPEAKER_03 1:32

No, no, thank you.

SPEAKER_05 1:34

Rice.

SPEAKER_03 1:35

I always think they've got teeth.

SPEAKER_05 1:37

The amounts of people that have said that. Gay men like that. Oh no, vagina's have got teeth.

SPEAKER_03 1:41

It's because of the word growler, isn't it?

SPEAKER_05 1:43

Suppose so. Suppose so. Right then, let's get going, eh? Shall we get going?

SPEAKER_03 1:48

Let's get going.

SPEAKER_05 1:49

Woohoo! Welcome to episode 139 of the Powder Celt Podcast. And

– Welcome to episode 139

SPEAKER_05 1:55

so today I'm here with our guests.

SPEAKER_03 1:57

Hi everyone. Great.

SPEAKER_05 1:59

And he's got his Pride t-shirt on, love it.

SPEAKER_03 2:03

Lovely little hands and lovely hearts.

SPEAKER_05 2:05

Oh, love it, love it, love it. Yeah. And erm, we've uh we've told everybody from Facebook, you've just joined us. I've got me Pride, Doc Martins on, and me uh my rainbow laces. Got my boots looking a bit racked early, aren't they?

SPEAKER_03 2:18

No, they're lovely. I love those laces.

SPEAKER_05 2:19

They're they're well loved, these boots. They're great. Love them. Um and what do you think of our new Pascel logo with the uh all the colours all the time?

SPEAKER_03 2:29

Oh do you know what? I love it. I love you've got two versions and I love them both. Yeah, just they it just looks so great and it sums up everything that you are and this podcast is open to everyone.

SPEAKER_05 2:41

Yeah, hey everybody. Um I just wanted to um I wanted to have a little Pride logo anyway, but I was trying to think of something that'd go on t-shirts or something, so you know that would go nice there, you know. I really love the new logo. And I uh it was gonna be a logo just turn you around. It was gonna be a logo uh just for Pride Month, but I think I might keep it. Oh, absolutely. I think I might keep it forever. Um because uh you know yes it's Pride Month, but we are a clear podcast, basically, aren't we? 100%. I think it should stay. What do you think? Have you seen our new logo, Julika? Should it stay forever? I think so.

SPEAKER_03 3:17

I think it should as well. I think I think although the green is great, I think it shows that it's a bit dark.

SPEAKER_04 3:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 3:27

And it's not dark, is it? It's it's interesting, it's fun. It has hilarious, but it and it touches on the serious as well. And it just I just love the way it goes. I just oh I've just knocked the mic. You said not to knock the fucking mic. Here we go.

SPEAKER_05 3:42

It's because your fucking hands are everywhere.

SPEAKER_03 3:43

I know, I can't help myself.

SPEAKER_05 3:45

Kev talks as hands, he's one of these, you know, like you've just done that. They didn't serious, but those on the camera over there saw this. Well, I was giving one of them, doesn't it? Oh, he just said yes, mistress more than that. Really?

SPEAKER_03 4:08

I've got a top of me to get to make one thing. What you've just seen me doing in that other room, right then.

SPEAKER_05 4:16

So while we've got Facie on, um and while I can remember, um a podcast went out recently um by BBC Sounds, and it's called Swingers, and it was something that I was involved in. Um I've mentioned it briefly uh previously.

– BBC Sounds “Swingers” discussion

SPEAKER_05 4:33

I couldn't really tell you an awful lot about it because it hadn't really been released uh and nothing had been said about this, but uh everybody thought that my involvement was all going to be like lighthearted and you know, come to a come to a swingers club, swinging's great and all that, you know. But it's the BBC and it was actually a piece of investigative journalism and um and we were brought in to sort of give a comparison of how well swinging can work when it's done right.

SPEAKER_03 5:00

I've listened to it.

SPEAKER_05 5:01

The whole thing.

SPEAKER_03 5:02

Uh up to the bit where you well, about halfway through, I think.

SPEAKER_05 5:06

Yeah, have you listened to the whole podcast or just that one episode?

SPEAKER_03 5:09

Just that one episode. Okay, I I know the context behind it. Okay. Um about this this girl in this woman in North Wales. Yes. Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_05 5:18

Um so but to bring our episode into context, you need to listen to the whole thing. There's only six episodes, they're about 25 minutes, 30 minutes each. And uh it's a story of a lady who was married for years, about uh about 12 years, I think, and her husband coerced her to go online onto um a a well-known swinging site. I'm not gonna say because I'm live on Facebook. Um excuse me, and he used this site to bring men into their relationship, and it was like once a week at first, then it was twice a week, three times a week, three times a day.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 5:52

Um, and at one point, um I mean it was clearly abuse, and she sort of she went along with it because she was being coerced and abused, and it was getting into her head. Um, and when she questioned it, he would say things that would make it okay. Um she actually got pregnant and um she by one of the guys, she had an abortion, um, which I got the feeling it wouldn't be something she'd normally do, but obviously it was outside the marriage, it was one of these guys.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 6:24

Um and she was home that night wearing pads and stuff, losing her baby, and this guy had arranged for something to come around so she could give them a blowjob.

SPEAKER_03 6:34

Yeah, I remember I remember hearing that.

SPEAKER_05 6:36

So this is the level of abuse, yeah. And all this happened, all that arranged on this site online, and so the BBC investigated this. And so the whole thing was about you know, if you're gonna embark on these sort of lifestyles, these journeys into swinging or BZSM or whatever it is, be aware that online people can be whatever they want to be. Yeah, any avatar they want to be, but in person it can be something completely different. Absolutely, and there's a it's open for abuse if it's not you know handled in the right way. Don't get me wrong, forums can be amazing as well. I've used forums successfully, and I'm sure you have as well. If you're responsible and you use them in the right way, uh, but it is open to abuse as well by people who who are using it for m malicious and nefarious reasons, and this guy was one of them. And so the podcast covered the whole story, and then we were brought in episode four as a club to show people if you want to do this sort of thing, there's alternatives like coming to a venue, and it's not for everybody going to a venue, it really isn't. But for those who want to, we were brought in to show like the safety aspects and the consent and all the things we do to keep you safe. So it was a nice, it was balanced in that sense, and I'm glad that we were brought in for those reasons. It wasn't like it wasn't sensationalised in that oh, this happens at a swingers club, this didn't, and all like you know, uh seedy stuff. It wasn't that at all. It was a grown-up, sensible discussion on a grown-up subject, and it was handled really nicely.

SPEAKER_03 8:04

I think I think it's it shows the BBC at their best with investigative journalism.

SPEAKER_05 8:09

Yeah, I'm I'm really really happy with it and I'm I'm really proud to be part of it. Yeah, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_01 8:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:21

Because I saw the story of the uh of the coercion, and then I saw part of your episode, and then I had to switch it off for family reasons. But um it's uh it's important that this is out there.

SPEAKER_05 8:35

It is important, you know, because people are still gonna do these things, yeah, but we need to know how to do it safely, don't we? Yeah, and you and aware of um your your conduct online, how to protect yourself. So it was really it was really well done, and I know there's loads of people on this site who are up in arms about it, you know, uh big supporters of the site, because they've used the site successfully, and some people do, but there's some people that have you know found themselves in these situations, and this this girl I think she's just swept along, and before she knew it, she was like shit.

SPEAKER_03 9:09

We have the same thing with like grinder and scruff and all of those different things. Yeah, of course she does in the gay world. Yeah, and we've we've been doing it a lot longer, probably.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:17

And you know, catfishes exist.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_03 9:21

And there's you know if if I if I was a guy, I I heard on the on the on the episode that there was a guy who felt that he was sleeping with somebody who didn't want to be doing it. Yes. And he carried on.

SPEAKER_05 9:36

Yeah, yeah. It's just the the whole thing brought certain issues that we find in the lifestyle to light.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 9:44

And by talking about it, it's highlighting it to other people and keeping everybody safe.

SPEAKER_03 9:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 9:49

And making us think about these things properly before we embark on them.

SPEAKER_03 9:53

And if you f if you think that something's not right, stop.

SPEAKER_05 9:56

Yes, exactly, exactly. So uh I just wanted to highlight this podcast if you're interested. So it's not it's not sensationalised, it's not slap and tickle. Um it's it's a serious look at a serious issue, uh, but it's not it's not the whole issue around the scene. The scene is is a brilliant scene, but it just highlights these things. Um so it's called Swingers, it's on BBC Sounds. Uh my episode's episode four, but I strongly encourage you to listen from episode one and to get the whole picture uh and give me some feedback. Um see and I'd love to know what you all think.

SPEAKER_03 10:33

Everybody made the uh the BBC uh six o'clock and ten o'clock news.

SPEAKER_05 10:37

It it made the news, yeah. And I'm named in full on it. I'm named in full, and you can hear my dulcet tones. It's quite funny actually because when they first come into the club on my episode, and I'm like, I went, Are you hugging? These girls from the BBC coming in to do this like serious interview, and I'm like that, dress as a dominatrix, going, hi yeah, you're hugging, big hugs.

SPEAKER_03 11:02

And it was a fact as well that they they couldn't find the building.

SPEAKER_05 11:07

They did say it was disgraceful, doesn't have neon signs saying knocking shopping and all swingers clubbing and so have a little look and let me know what you think. So, what are people saying they have got something from Wisconsin? Ah, so Emily, not Emily that way now. Uh just got out of the shower and my phone says Padder Cell waiting for you. Yeah, I'm gonna pop Emily get out of the shower. Dry your minge.

SPEAKER_03 11:39

Get those bats wrapped up.

SPEAKER_05 11:41

Get the baps wrapped up though. Oh, hello from Australia. Hello, another Aussie. Oh what time is it in Aussie now? Um I don't even know what time it is here, mate. Don't know what time is it here? It's gotta be. It'll be early hours of the morning. Yeah, when the moon's still on. Yeah, probably about two, three o'clock, something like that. What time is it in Australia? So, anyway, best cat crack on haven't we?

SPEAKER_02 12:04

Here we go.

SPEAKER_05 12:05

So I'm gonna do a little on this day while you're on, um, and then we're gonna switch it off. And this will be going out next Thursday to the Masses or Monday to the Patreons. So just a little taste of what you could get. Right then, so this is going out to the Masses on the 25th of June, which is the day after my birthday. Woo! 24th of June is my birthday. Uh someone's said hello from Melbourne. Hello.

SPEAKER_03 12:30

Vic, I think you've spoken about your birthday on every episode for the last four or five.

SPEAKER_05 12:35

Probably every episode, ever. You think I was a fucking queen?

SPEAKER_03 12:41

You're doing exactly again what you did last year when you were turning 50. You kept telling people that that you were nearly 50, nearly 50, nearly 50, and now you're telling people it's again, it's nearly a boat. It's fantastic. You just you're just a creature of habit, aren't you?

SPEAKER_05 12:55

But I was telling people I was nearly 50 when I just turned 49. No. Because I was saying to people, I'm on the 50 road now. So anyway.

SPEAKER_03 13:03

I was I was slightly similar, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_05 13:05

You can't help it, can't you? It's a big thing when you're half a century.

SPEAKER_03 13:08

Yeah, you need two years to get used to it, don't you?

SPEAKER_05 13:11

I needed time to get used to saying 50.

SPEAKER_03 13:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 13:13

You know, I wasn't in denial, I just needed to get used to saying 50 half a century. We're both 50 now. Sorry, I don't feel any different.

SPEAKER_03 13:21

No.

SPEAKER_05 13:22

No. I've got a few more grey eyebrow pairs.

SPEAKER_03 13:24

Yeah, I've I've had to snip a few out of my beard.

SPEAKER_05 13:26

Just a few, mate?

SPEAKER_03 13:28

Yeah, I know. I know. I've got I tell you what, did I tell you when I went to Grand Canary I bought one of those um sort of like they're like a mascara stick. It's made by just for men, and you literally just cut it out. Oh, you didn't. Oh, I did. I did. It looked great, but were you pissed? No, this I did this to go out.

SPEAKER_05 13:46

I don't know if you heard that. But when Kev went to Grand Canaria, because he's got a lot of white in his beers, you're in denial, you mate.

SPEAKER_03 13:53

Yeah. I'm wanting to be a silver fox, I think.

SPEAKER_05 13:55

Yeah, you get them there. You bought this like mascara thing that you tow him into your beers to cover up the grain, and you weren't pissed. I'm glad it didn't rain, it was a bit like that streaking down your neck. It's a bastard to get out. It's waterproof as well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:08

Honestly, it took about three days for it to come out and it feels really rough afterwards. Is it cum proof? I don't go to Grand Canary for those things, then.

SPEAKER_05 14:18

Well, no, I'm just thinking, have your head on the grapevine. You know, is it cum-proof?

SPEAKER_03 14:22

I haven't had any feedback about it.

SPEAKER_05 14:24

Bukaki proof.

SPEAKER_03 14:25

I'm hoping that the people that I went out with. Fucking cards on Facebook then. I'm hoping that the people that I went out with didn't notice that I'd dyed my beard, but I think it's pretty much it.

SPEAKER_05 14:36

Yeah. Anyway, before I get into trouble for just simulating pukay on Facebook. I just did. Do you not see me doing it?

SPEAKER_03 14:45

No, I didn't. I'm gonna have to watch that bag.

SPEAKER_05 14:50

I just simulated being in the middle of a circle doing that. I can't do it again. But you can imagine what I was doing.

SPEAKER_03 14:59

Oh god, I hope we don't get kicked off.

SPEAKER_05 15:01

We won't get kicked off. I said minge before

– On This Day

SPEAKER_05 15:03

as well. Right then, so 25th of June 1900.

SPEAKER_03 15:07

Yeah, well that's what we were doing.

SPEAKER_05 15:08

That's what we were doing. We're 17 minutes in. Right, so if I said to you. It's okay. If I said to you that um while the the greatest lost libraries was found in 1900, what country do you think it would be in?

SPEAKER_03 15:27

Turkey.

SPEAKER_05 15:29

You are good guess. I'd say most people would say Egypt or Greece or Rome, wouldn't they? But Turkey's a good guess. But no, it's nowhere near Turkey. Um it was in Northwest China. Really? Yeah, yeah. Now um basically there's a cave system in northwest China. Um and this is around the ancient Silk Road in a place called Doonhang, and uh it's pronounced Doon Huang. I've actually I've actually spelt it out and put ooonhuang.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Well, you've got to get it right, haven't you?

unknown 16:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:11

So for centuries this place had been a crossroads between the East and the West. Merchants, monks, pilgrims, travellers, and everything from all around the world carried goods through this region and carved into nearby cliffs with these cave temples, yeah. Known today as the Mogwau Caves, I think it's how you say it. I didn't actually spell that one out. These these and they were natural caves, they were hand cut by Buddhist monks over hundreds of years. Really? Over a period of time, they'd been developing and building them over hundreds of years, and they were filled with paintings, statues, and sacred texts.

SPEAKER_03 16:44

Amazing.

SPEAKER_05 16:45

By the late 1800s, uh many of these had fallen into disrepair and the things inside had been uh damaged. Anyway, fast forward. Um there was this monk Yang hang on, Wang I don't know how you say his name. Wang.

SPEAKER_03 17:04

Yuan Lu. Yuan Lu. Yuan Lu.

SPEAKER_05 17:07

He wasn't an archaeologist or a historian. Um, he was essentially a caretaker trying to restore these caves, and one day he noticed something odd. This is where we get to 1900 from the 1800s. He was clearing sand and debris from one of the cave compact complexes, and he discovered what appeared to be a sealed doorway hidden behind a wall. And the 25th of June 1900, he opened it. And what he found behind it was staggering.

SPEAKER_03 17:38

Was it loads more artifacts?

SPEAKER_05 17:39

The room was packed, packed floor to ceiling with manuscripts, not dozens, not thousands, around fifty thousand documents.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 17:51

Some scholars estimated even more. There were scrolls of and paintings, religious text, administrative records, contracts, letters, calendars, songs, and personal writings. Wow. Many dated back to thousands of years.

SPEAKER_03 18:06

Thousands.

SPEAKER_05 18:07

Thousands of years.

SPEAKER_03 18:08

Like are we talking pre-Egyptians?

SPEAKER_05 18:09

Thousands. This is why it's the oldest known library. Yeah. So you know, imagine opening essentially like this cupboard that's been closed for years. Imagine go into a cupboard and a house.

SPEAKER_03 18:22

That'd be like discovering Tutankhamun all over again.

SPEAKER_05 18:24

And you find thousands of years worth of human history inside, and the room became known as the library cave. Yeah. Why was this not in the news? It was, it was, yeah. 1900, so it was recorded, you know, newspapers and stuff. And I think this sort of thing has been on TV on like certain like you know, so we were never taught.

SPEAKER_03 18:44

Yeah, we were talking about the Egyptians.

SPEAKER_05 18:46

Mace in school, we were taught like fucking boring stuff, boring stuff like dates of your king's birthdays and coronations. We weren't taught the interest and stuff. That's why we all switched off and failed our O levels.

SPEAKER_03 18:58

Yeah, 100%. We're not talking about the history of the world, we're talking about it doesn't really matter much.

SPEAKER_05 19:04

Yeah. Anyway, so what what made this so important wasn't simply the quantity of what they found, it was the variety. So among the documents were texts written in Chinese, Tibetan, Sanskrit, um, Khazanese, and several other ancient languages because it goes back that far. Yeah. Some describe just everyday life, what it was like to live back then. Yeah, which for me is more interesting than like religious text. 100% very important because it you get to know how people tick, heavy thought back then. But actually, the everyday stuff is what fascinates me. Yeah, how they actually lived and breathed and watched, washed and communicated and what they ate, what the weather was like back then. Yeah, that's what was in here. That's what fascinates me.

SPEAKER_03 19:49

We're we're currently looking um at the Egyptians and and the ancient Greeks and and and that. This is older.

SPEAKER_05 19:56

It's older again. So, I mean, I'm actually gonna look more into this um because it fascinated me that much. I'm gonna look into some of the text and you know, see if we can actually read some of them because I really want to know more. Yeah? Anyway, one even contained what is often described as the world's oldest complete printed book with a known date called the Diamond Sutra, and it was printed in 8086 AD.

SPEAKER_03 20:23

868 AD.

SPEAKER_05 20:25

Printed printed. It was like it's like a parchment. So before that, it was like, you know, on stone and shit, it wasn't. So uh I mean this is mind-blowing, really, isn't it? And so it's one of the most fascinating things about the discovery is that the cave had been deliberately sealed. So somebody had carefully packed these documents away, then built a wall over the entrance. It's almost like a time capsule.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:51

It's like they knew that maybe a lot of maybe world disasters, or there might have been something that could have destroyed this. Very intelligent enough to or maybe they wanted it to be sealed so it was only found now, so it was our discovery all these years later. Yeah, they knew that would be like, oh wow, we found something phenomenal here. So they've they've sealed this time capsule unreal that your phone got. That's my phone. Go on, switch it off. Anyway, so one theory suggested the manuscripts were hidden during a period of political instability. They had it back then as well. I'm not gonna mention Chaos Star in this episode. Oops, I just did. Anyway, another proposes that they were stored because newer texts had replaced them, but nobody wanted to destroy the sacred writings. So they'd archived it because new discoveries and writings had come along. Don't forget this had been written over centuries. So they were what they thought maybe that they'd archived all the old stuff, sealed it all away so it didn't get damaged. And then this new stuff had come along. So I'm now wondering: is the newer stuff still? Sealed somewhere because obviously over time, more new stuff. So I'm like, fucking hell, are they gonna find other stuff as well?

SPEAKER_00 22:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:06

So I'm gonna read into this more. This has captured my imagination. I'm like a little I haven't got I can't be arsed being an explorer. I haven't got the energy. I like the idea.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:18

I like the idea of finding things and reading something that's been handled by somebody all those years. My metal detecting, exactly. I like yeah, I like finding shit, discovering shit. So anyway, many historians are still arguing now about why this was stored away. But I think the most feasible thing is it was literally storing for posterity and safety to keep these things safe for the future.

SPEAKER_03 22:44

100%. We've just now got to carry that on.

SPEAKER_05 22:46

Yeah. However, this is where it becomes a little bit controversial because, like everything in time that's been found, it's been pilfered, stolen, or sold. Yes. Soon explorers and collectors from around the world began to arrive, and of course they did greedy bastards. Several foreign expeditions purchased huge numbers of manuscripts, yeah. Um, and there was a very famous one. Um, it was purchased by a Hungarian British explorer called uh Oro Steen. And Stien acquired thousands of documents, um, and now these collections are in Britain and elsewhere in museums and stuff. Other explorers from other countries, France, Russia, Japan, um, and documents began leaving China by the craze.

SPEAKER_03 23:34

Wow. I mean, it has that has its benefits because if they're getting studied across the world, right hear me out, Vic. If they're getting studied across the world, right, so we can gather the information, surely that's got to be brilliant because a lot of really good minds are looking at it, right? As long as they are returned.

SPEAKER_05 23:55

Well, they're not. They're not returned, they are scattered now across museums and libraries, right across the globe.

SPEAKER_03 24:03

They need to be studied and then they need to be returned and then stored again.

SPEAKER_05 24:07

Yes. So in in my research, some people agree with you that uh some people see this partly as preservation by taking it around the world, they're in museums being preserved, studied, and people are being educated from them. However, my argument and what other people debate is that actually uh removing this is removing priceless cultural heritage, and actually, people could have gone to China to study and learn. Chinese scholars could have learned from it and taught their peers who then could have taught others, they could have organised expeditions to the place for people to see it in situ. I personally don't think that something that was sealed in situ all those thousands of years ago should never have been removed, they should have stayed where they are. In it in place, it's part of their culture and heritage, and outsiders should have been invited in to go and learn and study them.

SPEAKER_03 25:05

But do you not think though that back then China wasn't in a state of where it could do this, right? But now China is probably one of the best countries to be able to research this because a the amount of people and it's their history, they now it's they they would own that.

SPEAKER_05 25:21

Yes, they would. This is 1900.

SPEAKER_03 25:22

This is what the Egyptians have suddenly started doing properly now with the pyramids, isn't it? China needs to do that with this and demand that this all comes back.

SPEAKER_05 25:30

And do you know what they might do? I mean, what state these things are going to be in now when they've been around there. I'd love to think they've been handled carefully.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:36

You know, uh, but you don't know, you don't know what's happened to them. Um and now they've been removed, now it is still only the same. But you know, going back to what Kev's just said, this is 126 years ago, different times, and yes, you would have realised it though the cultural significance, otherwise they wouldn't have sold them in the first place. However, they couldn't have foreseen what we know now, and this is now part of a much bigger picture of what we know about the world back then, and we now know how to preserve things properly. Yeah, we appreciate the enormity of finding things like this now. Back then, different times, and countries might have needed the money, yeah, the exposure, maybe, and so maybe it was the right thing to do then, but we now know we need to return them. We need to do the right thing to do, and really we should be returning them. Same with the Elgin marbles, yes, and a lot of things out there, Kev. A lot of things, you know, hopefully going to be returned to their rightful place. But you know, for now, these bits and bobs are scattered around the world, and all we've got now, uh we have got the site, and you can you can visit the site. I don't think you can visit as the public, I don't think you've got to go with guides or whatever, but you you know it's the the historical site is still there, and you can read all about it, you can see things on the internet. China are preserving it now, absolutely, absolutely it's yeah, cultural heritage and all that.

SPEAKER_03 26:59

Yeah, good on them because they are a proud people and they should be proud of that.

SPEAKER_05 27:03

And I think they are, and um, so this brought a big, big smile to my face. It's something that I didn't know, and I thought I knew quite a lot about this sort of thing. And so it is the most significant and ancient library in the world.

SPEAKER_03 27:16

Wow, and predates all the others by predates all the rest. Fucking loads.

SPEAKER_05 27:20

Isn't that great? Jesus. Isn't that really good? So, this is the sort of thing we talk about, the padded cell. It's all about kink and sex and all that. We find really interesting stuff like this, which is a little bit mind-blowing, but it's a nice little smile to your face.

SPEAKER_03 27:32

Yeah, absolutely. We cover everything.

SPEAKER_05 27:35

Back to the logo, back to the logo, everything in there, I think, yeah. So we're gonna leave Facebook the before I go. Let's have a little look. Um, Jillian said that would have been incredible to see as they opened it, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_03 27:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:48

Imagine being the imagine the smell. What would the smell of being like?

SPEAKER_03 27:52

Rush of air as well.

SPEAKER_05 27:53

Yeah, yeah. And you there's no mention of curses or nothing like that. It was just a vault of memories. There was no little, you know, uh voodoo dolls and shit like that in the kitchen.

SPEAKER_03 28:04

I wish the BBC would do a documentary on this, a proper documentary on this. I think it would be amazing. That's great, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_05 28:10

Yeah, but imagine like we have Attenborough, no, right?

SPEAKER_03 28:12

Before we go.

SPEAKER_05 28:13

Before he pegs it, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:14

Yeah, oh my god, could you imagine he's talked about wildlife and then he now talks about the human race.

SPEAKER_04 28:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:20

About a time in our history, yeah. Not just the Chinese, the time in the history of the human race. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:28

Yeah. Oh god, when he goes, it's gonna be sad, isn't it? Oh, before I'll be able to do when Dave goes.

SPEAKER_03 28:33

I hope they give him a state funeral.

SPEAKER_05 28:34

I think they'll give him a state funeral. If he didn't give him a state funeral, I think, you know, if the state of our country isn't gonna cause civil war, I think, you know, not given David Attenborough a state funeral, but uh No, I think he should have one.

SPEAKER_03 28:47

Absolutely, you should have one.

SPEAKER_05 28:48

What a guy.

SPEAKER_03 28:49

What a guy, and it will show that we are recognising as well study and research and understanding of how our planet has become and how our wildlife thrives on it.

SPEAKER_05 28:58

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 28:59

Because that's part of this planet as well.

SPEAKER_05 29:00

Of course it is, of course.

SPEAKER_03 29:01

And we we need to look after it.

SPEAKER_05 29:02

We do, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:03

So, yeah, 100%. He needs a state funeral.

SPEAKER_05 29:06

He does, he does.

SPEAKER_03 29:06

If you think he needs a state funeral, comment below.

SPEAKER_05 29:09

Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely. So, uh Barbara said, Is there any in the British Museum? I believe so, yes. Um, yeah, some people are agreeing with what we said there about you know, leave leaving these things are where they're where they belong in the room.

SPEAKER_03 29:25

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 29:26

Right, so we're gonna leave it there, folks. Thanks for joining us over on Facebook. And um if you like I said before, if you want to see the whole thing next Thursday, or you can catch catch it on Monday on Patreon. But for now, have a great rest of your day. We're gonna carry on recording and uh we'll chat you soon.

unknown 29:46

Bye.

SPEAKER_05 29:46

Bye. Oh yeah, hang on, hang on,

– Pride Month stories intro

SPEAKER_05 29:49

hang on.

SPEAKER_03 29:49

We're getting a little bit more. Well, I nearly got dizzy then.

SPEAKER_05 29:53

Bye. See you soon. Oh, there we go. It's not going off.

unknown 30:00

Here we go.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

It's not going off!

SPEAKER_05 30:06

Panic in my face.

SPEAKER_01 30:09

It's not going off.

SPEAKER_05 30:11

Right, do you know what? I was gonna do a couple more on this days, but uh, you've brought a story today, and I've got a story that I want to do. Okay, because it's Pride Month, we've both brought some Pride stories. Um, so I'm gonna shelve the on this days, and one of them's really interesting, so I might actually make it into a segment one day, to be honest with you. Uh and I'm not gonna do a dangly bit either, because I've got a lady lobosomy that I've just I've got to do, and I need to leave time for it. And because you've got a segment, I want to leave us both plenty of time to love a lady lobotomy, so I'd love to hear that. So, my pride segment today. You will know some of this, maybe. Um, excuse me.

SPEAKER_03 30:54

My stomach's just rumbled. I hope that hasn't picked it up.

SPEAKER_05 30:57

Do you know what? Sometimes you can hear my stomach rumbling. I don't know where it's because my microphone's just right there by my stuff.

SPEAKER_03 31:02

It's all the diet coke, it's just the gas is moving down.

SPEAKER_05 31:04

Yeah, you feel free to burp, you know, you can do me burp, haven't you? So, do you know the story uh behind the pride flag?

SPEAKER_03 31:14

So to be honest with you, no. Okay. I I know I know that it was created because um we needed to have a colour and an identity, um, but I don't know the actual reason behind it.

SPEAKER_05 31:31

So I knew some of it, but there's some little bits that I didn't. And you know, us at the Path of Cell, I always like to find little bits that people don't know. I make me go and this is one of them. Okay, so I mean obviously the pride flag is probably the most one one of the most recognisable symbols, yes, it is, isn't it? Yeah, and there's six colours on the pride flag, but originally there was eight.

SPEAKER_03 31:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 31:56

Did you know that? Yes, okay, and the first rainbow flag pride flag was created in 1978, so within our lifetime by Gilbert Baker in San Francisco, it had to be San Francisco. The leather pride flag was created in San Francisco, our leather guys were born there. San Francisco was just the place to be if you were queer and you wanted to be here and you wanted to show all them what that were not going anywhere. It was like I would have loved to have been in oh no where I am a bit really, but imagine me back then.

SPEAKER_03 32:28

Oh imagine me back then. I love leather, but I just I just don't want to spend the money on it.

SPEAKER_05 32:33

No, no, that's the thing. We've talked about this before, don't we get to bed? Very, very spendy.

SPEAKER_03 32:36

Some of some of the um the leather uniforms and things that you see guys in, they they look so hot in them.

SPEAKER_05 32:43

DM me.

SPEAKER_03 32:44

It's gotta be one of the sexiest outfits for a man for a man.

SPEAKER_05 32:47

I'd say so, definitely. Anyway, so Gilbert Baker, he was an artist and a drag performer. I didn't know that. And activist, and he'd been uh encouraged to create a symbol that represented the whole of the LGBT community. Now, obviously, I haven't put the Q on there because it wasn't LGBTQ back then. It's just LGBT. No disrespect.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

Well, didn't it start as just LGB?

SPEAKER_05 33:10

It was, yes, it was, but around that time the T was being brought in, and that's why they wanted to represent so the T has been part of our community for a long time. A long time and and the China Move us, don't like that. I'm not gonna go into it, I'm not gonna be negative today. I want this to be positive.

SPEAKER_03 33:26

It's part of our community, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 33:27

So they wanted one unifying image, and if you remember, um the lambda, the the Greek symbol, lambda was a gay symbol for a little while. Um, you know what? Some of our younger listeners and viewers might not remember that, so I'll stick it up on the screen. Sometimes just a black symbol, sometimes uh it was coloured like pink, but often it was just black, and there was also the pink triangle as well before the rainbow. Um, and if you don't know anything about that, that wasn't that positive. Uh the pink triangle that came from the Nasi regime and it was used to identify gay men during uh wartime.

SPEAKER_03 34:02

And they went to concentration camps as well.

SPEAKER_05 34:05

Whether it doesn't matter what religion you were, if you're a gay man, they slapped this symbol on you and you went to a concentration camp. An awful lot of gay men um were exterminated. But again, we're not going to go too far into that, but that's why the symbol what didn't sit very well with people at the time, it wasn't that positive. So he wants to try and basically create something that wasn't tied to persecution, you know. And his answer was the rainbow. Like I said before, it wasn't six stripes, it was originally eight, and each colour had its own meaning. And hot pink was on there originally, and that represented sex, re red represented life, orange represented healing, yellow represented sunlight, green represented nature, there was a turquoise in there, and that represented magic and art. Indigo represented serenity, and violet represented spirit. And the first version of the flag was literally hand-dyed and hand-sewn in San Francisco. Volunteers spend spent nights dyeing fabric in bathtubs and stitching these giant flags together. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:14

It had to be perfect.

SPEAKER_05 35:16

Well, they said if we're gonna do it, it's gonna look right. It's gotta, it's just be thrown together, you know what I mean. Um, and for me, imagine you know creating this thing and like a bath and hand stitching, something in your spare time that went on to be one of the most well-known symbols across the world.

SPEAKER_03 35:34

100%. It's a massive achievement. I always I always think that because when did you say it was created?

SPEAKER_05 35:40

1978.

SPEAKER_03 35:41

1978. So I've always thought that the rainbow came from The Wizard of Oz.

SPEAKER_02 35:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:48

Right, because of the song, yeah, right, and because Judy Garland is an absolute icon in the gay scene, right? And back then she would have been huge amongst the gay men community. So I think that will also help generate, and then they put the colours in for the meaning, and I think it's just a wonderful story.

SPEAKER_05 36:07

It is, it is a lovely story. Um, and love as well, that Judy Garland and the whole Ruby Slippers Oz thing, it's all linked to you know the LGBTQ. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 36:18

It's it's so and so importantly as well. If you go to the Smithsonian Museums in Washington, DC, they've actually got a pair of the Ruby slippers in the museum, and that's a little nod as well, you know, because it is one of probably one of the most famous films of all the time.

SPEAKER_05 36:34

Oh, it's gotta be, it's gotta be. I think everybody in the world must have seen or at least heard of it or seen bits of it. They must have done. I mean, this is why I called our um all girl event Ruby slippers.

SPEAKER_03 36:44

There you go.

SPEAKER_05 36:45

You know? Anyway, let's carry on. So, why did the flag lose its colours? I thought it might have been something symbolic or somebody was, you know, against these colours for some reason. No, it was a practical reason. So the demand for the for the flag exploded after the assassination of Harvey Milk. Do you know Harvey Milk? Harvey Milk, yeah. This politician, gay rights activist, yes, really great guy. That was in 1978. So the demand for this flag exploded because everybody wanted to show support and recognise this and have a symbol to say we're here. Yeah. And the problem was the hot pink fabric and dye was really uh difficult to obtain commercially. They couldn't get the fabric, they couldn't get the dye, couldn't get it commercially, and manufacturers simply couldn't source enough of it for the demanded the flags, so the pink disappeared. Then turquoise removed it because organizers wanted an even number of stripes when they decorated the streets. Some some OCZ pairs are like seven, we can't have seven. Yeah. So then that was trashed as well. So it was redesigned basically, not because of politics, just because it wasn't practical. Basically, they couldn't get the die, and some OCs would be bringing.

SPEAKER_03 38:07

We should bring it back.

SPEAKER_05 38:08

It'd be good now, wouldn't it? Just as a little bit of a nod.

SPEAKER_03 38:11

Just no, just to say, actually, this is our heritage of the world. So we're gonna have this back.

SPEAKER_05 38:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:16

You know, we're we're we need to stand up as well and it's like.

SPEAKER_05 38:21

It's great life, but I can't remember them all. At one time I could name the flags.

SPEAKER_03 38:25

I I love I love flags because they they show a sense of pride about something. Right. What I don't like about them is when they're used against people.

SPEAKER_04 38:34

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:35

Um so I think if we all start showing flags and embracing flags, then it will soon sort that issue out.

SPEAKER_00 38:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:41

Because I think everyone should just accept everyone's flag. And if it identifies you, it identifies you. And if you're if it identifies you as a cunt, then you're a cunt, you know? Own it.

SPEAKER_05 38:50

What was a cunt? A bit like flaps. Labia. A flag in the shape of a labia.

SPEAKER_03 38:59

No, I think it'd be more like a symbol.

SPEAKER_05 39:01

Do you?

SPEAKER_03 39:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 39:02

I prefer the flaps flaps.

SPEAKER_03 39:04

It's an aggressive thing, isn't it? We use the term cunt as an aggressive thing to be to describe a lot of people. Oh, don't you sell it cunt? Yeah, but it's the term that you use it, the context. But you you generally normally use it about somebody that you don't Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 39:19

I'd I I just want flap on a few.

SPEAKER_03 39:21

Or is that just a gay man's perception of a cunt?

SPEAKER_05 39:23

Yeah. Because you don't really like real cunts.

SPEAKER_03 39:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 39:27

If you if somebody says it, it's a bit like, mm. Whereas like me and Haley, for instance, yeah. Like if she like she got me this recently, let me show you this. I'm a tea tank, as you all know. And she got me this tea bag.

SPEAKER_03 39:40

Tab.

SPEAKER_05 39:41

Little tab on it.

SPEAKER_03 39:42

I love that. That is gorgeous.

SPEAKER_05 39:43

I went, oh I get to have cunt. Thank you. But who's that's what you do?

SPEAKER_03 39:46

But who's had the sense of humour to do that? That's brilliant.

SPEAKER_05 39:49

I know, yeah. Um, you know, Haley's thought, I know the exact person I'll get a teabag for.

SPEAKER_03 39:55

With your mingan clap.

SPEAKER_05 39:56

With my mingan clack, it's not that mingan today.

SPEAKER_03 39:58

No, I've seen it worse.

SPEAKER_05 39:59

It's got about three weeks left in it. Anyway, so that's the story around the rainbow flag and why we've only got six colours now. Anyway, let's go to a couple of I was gonna go a little bit more about Lambda and all that, but I'm not going to. I'm gonna fast forward to the bisexual flag. I didn't know this either. And I should. So I didn't know that how recent this was. This was created by Michael Page in 1998. 1998?

SPEAKER_02 40:30

Not that long ago.

SPEAKER_05 40:31

No, and if you don't know, the flag is a pink stripe, a purple stripe, and a blue stripe. Yeah, yeah. But if you don't look closely enough, you'll you'll miss that actually the purple stripe, it sort of overlaps the pink and the blue slightly. It's not clean lines, it's slightly like shaded, it overlaps. And basically, that is to represent that we are in the middle, uh um attracted to both male and female. So the purple overlaps the two. Yeah. Pink and blue. So I knew that, um, but I didn't know it was that recent. I thought it had been around for a little while. So there you go. And the transgender flag, you might know this, you might know the name, was created in 1999 by uh Monica Helms.

SPEAKER_03 41:20

I don't know the name.

SPEAKER_05 41:21

Okay. Um trans person. And uh she basically deliberately designed it so that whichever way the flag was flown, it would still look correct.

SPEAKER_03 41:32

Great. Great.

SPEAKER_05 41:34

So it's it's a uniform, isn't it? So it's what not uniform, what's it what's it called when you flip it the right? Either way, it's a word. It's the same. The same, whichever way the same will do, says it. And um if if you don't know, there's a light blue and a light pink reference on the flag, and that's that referencing baby colours. So what you are um your your gender identified at birth.

SPEAKER_03 42:01

Yeah, the the light pink, the light blue, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:04

And then the white stripe represents those who are transitioning into sex or identify outside by our definitions. So it says, Yes, I was born, I was identified as this gender on paper, but this white bit here represents me now on my transition and journey. So, you know, for people out there, it's like, oh yeah, like I've just said, flags for everything. But you know, for some of these flags, actually, they've got a really nice backstory, and it's very simple.

SPEAKER_03 42:31

It's been very thoughtfully thought out.

SPEAKER_05 42:33

It's very, very simple that, but actually it's a nice little whichever way up, you hold it, it'll say the same thing, and it's acknowledging the fact that yes, I was this person at one point, but this is me now on my journey, and that's what this white stripe is, it's representing the journey. Okay, love that.

SPEAKER_03 42:52

I'd love to know what the bear flag was created for. So that's the paw print on the on the uh the yellow and brown and well, I mean the paw is obvious, but I don't know what the colours represent.

SPEAKER_05 43:01

No, I don't. I should know that. Right, you need to look into that. Right homework. Got all other little things in 2021, a rainbow pride flag travel to the edge of space on board a civilian mission. So they didn't need to do it, there was no political agenda. Somebody simply said this is true. They thought that LGBTQ people deserved representation among one of humanity's greatest achievements to send civilians to the edge of space.

SPEAKER_03 43:34

Great.

SPEAKER_05 43:35

I'm gonna cry today. I am gonna cry today for me later.

SPEAKER_03 43:38

That's what pride's all about. It's about having pride as well as fighting and continuing to fight. It is, it is that everybody's recognising.

SPEAKER_05 43:47

Yes. Anyway, did you know that in 2003 thousands of people gathered in Florida to create the largest human rainbow? I've seen this, I saw it at the time. Uh everybody wore um t shirts. In a certain colour, and they created this like stripes in a row and created the biggest rainbow, so biggest human rainbow. And also, I'm so gonna cry today. In Central Park Zoo, two male chin strap penguins called Roy and Silo became famous after successfully raising a chick together. Oh the story obviously generated international attention, not because it changed laws or influenced politics, of course it didn't, but because people connected with the simple idea that two animals uh were caring for this little youngster together.

SPEAKER_03 44:42

100%, 100%. That's that's me and T all over. Don't cry, it won't be crying.

SPEAKER_05 44:49

This is terrible. Have I got anything else that's gonna I want to say that isn't gonna set me off? Hang on. Okay, yes. Uh there was one about, yeah, in Sao Paulo. Um every year, every year, hang on, they've got this giant flag that they carry across the city. And they reckon that actually this parade in Sao Paulo uh it's attracted several million people, making it the largest pride event in the world, and they carry this flag right across the city and it can be seen from space.

SPEAKER_02 45:25

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 45:27

Mic drop! That's brilliant. That's absolutely do it! Fucking do it, absolutely. No, that's great.

SPEAKER_05 45:35

Absolutely

– Kev’s Pride story

SPEAKER_05 45:36

brilliant. So I have got my Lady La Botomy. Bus, I'm gonna hand over to you and have a slurp of me 7 Up. Okay. Sponsored by 7 Up all the time.

SPEAKER_03 45:45

7 Up, yeah, yeah, and Coke. I'll have actually no, I won't, because I'll burp halfway through.

SPEAKER_05 45:49

Yeah, you will do in a chore segment. Right then, fire away, are Kev.

SPEAKER_03 45:53

Okay, so um I've got a topic for you today that I genuinely think might be the one of the greatest things Britain has ever produced, right? Apart from you and I. Yeah, well, of course. Absolutely. So, what am I talking about? I'm talking about Polari.

SPEAKER_05 46:11

Do you all know what Polari is? I do, but I think you're gonna tell me some stuff that I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 46:17

I don't know. I mean, it's one of those things that it's lovely and quirky, isn't it? Polari, and it is it just sums up gay now. Yes. Right.

SPEAKER_05 46:25

Even love the word Polari.

SPEAKER_03 46:27

Polari, exactly. Um so I've got some notes here, so if I I apologise if I look like I'm reading it.

SPEAKER_05 46:33

Well, I look at my notes. I know, but we're knocking on, you see. We can't retain everything. We've got our props.

SPEAKER_03 46:39

And we go off on so many tangents, I wouldn't know where. Well, I often get lost even with my notes. You know what I mean? So imagine it's Soho, right? Handsome bloke walks past. See, the hands are going, right? Here we go.

SPEAKER_02 46:51

Already.

SPEAKER_03 46:53

Now, because it's 1958, you absolutely cannot stand up and announce good grief. Look at him. I've climbed that tree for him.

SPEAKER_05 47:05

Rice. I think in the back of my mind, I think you've actually said that out loud.

SPEAKER_03 47:09

Yeah, it goes or it goes on in my head. Yeah. Yeah, I constantly, I'm when I'm out and about and I'm looking at people. I mean, I I look men up and down. Well I do. Absolutely. Well, I'm not ashamed of that.

SPEAKER_02 47:20

Anybody are?

SPEAKER_03 47:21

And if I'm with a friend and that friend's sort of like, I know they're doing the same thing, I'll I'll I'll let them know. Yeah. You know, it's like, hello, he's nice, isn't he? You know, nice bum. Yeah. Um so so that sort of thing could get you arrested if you did that right, yes, Red, right? Back in 1958. So instead somebody quietly says, Vada the Bona trade. Vada the Bonatrade. Vada the Bona trade. You say better than me. Now, the genius of this is that the policeman standing nearby hears complete gibberish.

SPEAKER_01 47:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 47:51

Right? You here, right? So if you you're understanding what we're saying, it's you hear sweet mother of mercy, look at that handsome man.

SPEAKER_05 48:01

Sweet mother of mercy, look at that handsome man.

SPEAKER_03 48:04

Or, you know, ooh, he's a bit of all right, isn't he? Look at him over.

SPEAKER_05 48:07

Boner trade, though. I've expected to be something like part of the bona trade. Yeah. It's fabulous, it's great, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:14

So that is Pilari, right? It's it's it's Britain's first encrypted gossip act.

SPEAKER_05 48:20

Brilliant, brilliant.

SPEAKER_03 48:22

We should say app. It's it's it's a bit like um Instagram and Facebook and that, but without the technology. Yes. Right? So it gets better because the weird thing is, gay men didn't invent it.

SPEAKER_05 48:36

Okay, this is the thing I didn't know. I knew you'd come up with something that I didn't know.

SPEAKER_03 48:40

So we inherited it. The story actually starts hundreds of years earlier, okay? Before Soho, before Canal Street, before San Francisco, and all of that malarkey that went that went on in in America, etc. Before the 20th century. Okay. So the ancestor of Pilari was something called Parleary. Parlaie. Parlaori.

SPEAKER_02 49:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 49:05

Okay. And it was spoken by travelling entertainers, fairground workers, circus performers, punch and duty men, market traders, and sailors.

SPEAKER_05 49:16

What the oh, here we go. I swear comms into the gay world. Was this like a Romany gypsy thing?

SPEAKER_03 49:22

So, yes, it it has that sort of like context in there as well.

SPEAKER_04 49:27

Nothing.

SPEAKER_03 49:28

Words came from everywhere. Italian, Romany. So there you go, there's your Romany thing. Yiddish, Cockney slang, and backstage theatre jargon. Okay? So this is how it was all created. But over time, all these bits got stitched together into something unique. Okay? And then Britain's gay community we got hold of it. Okay? Which is where things become really interesting. Because for much of Britain's history, being gay wasn't just frowned upon, it was illegal.

SPEAKER_05 49:59

Illegal, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:00

Okay. People could lose jobs, families, homes, freedom. So finding other gay people wasn't easy.

SPEAKER_05 50:06

No.

SPEAKER_03 50:07

Okay? You couldn't exactly wear a badge.

SPEAKER_05 50:09

No.

SPEAKER_03 50:09

Well, not then, anyway. No. So Pilari became one way people recognised each other. A way of saying you're one of us.

SPEAKER_04 50:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:21

Right? And that's what I love about it.

SPEAKER_04 50:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:25

Okay? It's it's a way that you could be out in public and you could be stood with your friend, and like I say, that fit guy walks in and you say, Oh, to Vada the the whatever it was.

SPEAKER_05 50:38

So I just remember Bona.

SPEAKER_03 50:40

Bona f the bona Vada the Bona trade. Trust me, you just remember Bona. Yeah, Vada the Bona trade. Okay, and you can just say that and he's just hearing, oh, he's fucking fit.

SPEAKER_05 50:49

Varda the Bona trade. Do you know what? I feel like I need to remember this. So if I'm out and about in public, I can say it too.

SPEAKER_03 50:55

To a gay man, Varda the Bona trade. He probably wouldn't know what the fuck you're talking about.

SPEAKER_05 50:58

No, but then I can say, well, Pallari.

SPEAKER_03 51:01

I know, I wish we still had this.

SPEAKER_05 51:02

I really does anybody still speak it, do you think?

SPEAKER_03 51:05

I think they do.

SPEAKER_05 51:05

I mean I There must be people who are trying to keep that language in the community just for posterity and it's part of a heritage, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 51:14

Exactly. So you're saying one of us without actually saying it. Yeah. Right? You're one of us.

SPEAKER_05 51:18

It's like the Hankey code.

SPEAKER_03 51:20

Very much like that, okay? So people often talk about Polari as a secret code, okay? But it was a community. It was a it was humour, it was survival, it was finding your people. And because it was British, it was also about gossip. Yes. Well, gays love to gossip. Of course we do. Let's look at the vocabulary of it. So the thing that really convinces me Pilari was perfected by gay men, it's the level of detail.

SPEAKER_02 51:50

Okay, go on.

SPEAKER_03 51:50

Okay? They had words for everything, not important things. Hair. Legs, clothes, priorities. Hair was Rhea. Okay. Rhea. Okay. Face with eek. Legs were lallies. And clothes were clobber. So now you know where clobber comes from, right?

SPEAKER_05 52:14

I love, I love that I've I've like learned a new word today, like a new thing, clobber. Clobber, right?

SPEAKER_03 52:20

There's there's more Vada means look. Bona means good. Omi means man.

SPEAKER_00 52:29

Okay?

SPEAKER_03 52:30

Poloni means woman. And then we have two of the greatest words in the entire language, trade. Trade means an attractive man. Right? So you hear people saying, oh I bet you've heard your gay friend say, oh, bit of trade over there. Yeah. Right? And we we still do that now.

SPEAKER_05 52:48

And I just thought that was like a colloquialism, just like a thing, you know, a local.

SPEAKER_03 52:52

That's an attractive man over there, it's a bit of trade over there. Right? It's a way we can say it without making um people who we feel were probably a little bit more uncomfortable around us than they're letting on.

SPEAKER_00 53:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:06

Or just so that people we don't draw attention to ourselves by saying, you know, he's fucking fit, isn't it? You know?

SPEAKER_05 53:13

I'm gonna be saying this now. Are you careful how to trade over there?

SPEAKER_03 53:16

A bit of trade, I'll know exactly what you mean. I'll know exactly what you mean. Okay. So it doesn't trade doesn't mean just an attractive man though. Okay? Not just attractive, but distinguishingly attractive. So it's when he's uh fucking haughty, right? When you let me say you've heard me say, well, I would.

SPEAKER_02 53:38

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:39

Well then, you trade, right? Okay. Now the more I learned about Pilari, the more I realised it's basically Instagram.

SPEAKER_04 53:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:47

Okay? So it would have been the comments that you receive on Facebook, Instagram, those sort of TikTok in the 1950s. Okay? So picture Soho. Two men standing outside a cafe. Fada that owe me.

SPEAKER_04 54:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:02

Which one? The one with the NAF klobber.

SPEAKER_04 54:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:05

Right? Oh yes, boneric though. Okay. So that basically translates into look at that bloke. Which one? The badly dressed one. Oh yes, handsome face though. So now let's talk about the words that escape because some Polari worlds words are still alive today. So klobber. Clobber. Right? So most people don't even realise they're using them. And it's gone into mainstream society, right? So take NAF. Everybody knows NAF. You know, Princess Anne is famous for saying naff or then you've got zhuz.

SPEAKER_05 54:39

I like it.

SPEAKER_03 54:40

One of the greatest contributions to the English language, to zhuz something means to improve it. Add glamour, add sparkle. The wig needs a zhuzh. The outfit needs a zhuzh. The town centre needs a zhuzh.

SPEAKER_05 54:53

Most town centres do now.

SPEAKER_03 54:54

By the 1960s, Pilari had become so well known that it it started appearing on national radio. Okay? So we're talking 1960s.

SPEAKER_00 55:04

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 55:04

Okay? And somehow the BBC let this happen. It must have been. I don't I don't know. With the BBC, I'd like to think that actually, no, they've been so groundbreaking in so many things. In the 60s, though, Kev. But in so many things, they've been so groundbreaking. I love the BBC. And I like to think that they were actually putting that out there without people realising it. Okay. The comedy show, it was on the radio, it was called Rad the Horn, featuring two legendary characters called Julian and Sandy.

SPEAKER_00 55:38

Excellent.

SPEAKER_03 55:39

Right, great matters, aren't they? So this is what I mean. I think the BBC were actually not doing this by mistake. They were played by Kenneth Williams and Hugh Paddock.

SPEAKER_05 55:51

Don't know who that one is.

SPEAKER_03 55:52

I'm not sure who Hugh Paddock is. I I know his voice because I've I've listened to a few of these. But I can't picture it. Kenneth.

SPEAKER_05 55:58

We all know Kenneth Williams from carry-on films years ago. Especially a Shakespearean actor, wasn't he? He was, but he also suffered a lot of pain. Have you read his diary? I've actually seen a documentary on him, and he oh the pain that he suffered. It literally, I think it played his mind. It literally haunted him.

SPEAKER_03 56:15

It just wasn't the pain that he was suffering in his body, it was the pain that was a big thing. It was the torment. The torment was causing the pain.

SPEAKER_05 56:21

Oh, it's terrible.

SPEAKER_03 56:22

It was, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 56:22

He was he was sorry, I'm buttoning on I but in the documentary. He was he started out in the carry, he didn't start in the carry on films. He went into the carry-on films. It wasn't supposed to be a long-term thing, it did so well. And then he couldn't get out of it. And he felt bitter towards it. Because I am an ex I'm a Shakespearean actor, I am a stage actor. Yeah. What am I doing on this dross? But it paid the bills.

SPEAKER_03 56:43

Yeah, and it made him more famous than it would have done had he not been.

SPEAKER_05 56:48

But I don't think it sat well with his integrity. I think he wanted to be better than that, but actually. You know, the carry-on films are a legacy of that, they're going to be with us forever.

SPEAKER_03 56:57

If you don't know who Kenneth Williams is, look him up.

SPEAKER_05 57:00

Ermatron.

SPEAKER_03 57:01

And watch watch some of the carry-on films because he's brilliant. That was yours is perfect.

SPEAKER_05 57:08

Anyway, go on.

SPEAKER_03 57:08

That was one of his most famous films. So BBC Kenneth Williams. So yeah, so BB Switch and Hugh had it. So every week they'd appear speaking Pilari. Okay. Million millions of people listened. You know, it was this was sort of like people. TV wasn't really a big thing. The wireless was what people were still listening to. Half the audience had absolutely no idea what was going on, and the other half were crying with laughter. It was a message, right? This this is the thing. The BBC I think the BBC did not do this by mistake.

SPEAKER_01 57:39

Right?

SPEAKER_03 57:39

I think they are forward enough thinking, you know, we've got these gay actor, openly gay, in terms of like what you could see, but he still wasn't out. No. Because he wasn't allowed to be out and all of that. So it it but it was people them saying we need to break these barriers down. It's making it the norm to see people like this, to hear this sort of thing. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 58:00

So the the Pilari on the on the tally then, they were speaking in Pilari. For the people that didn't understand it, how did that go about?

SPEAKER_03 58:09

I'll come I'll come on to that. So the the remarkable thing is that this was happening while homosexual acts between men were still illegal. Okay? A secret gay language was being broadcast into living rooms across Britain by the BBC. Right? This this is in this is incredible.

SPEAKER_00 58:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:27

Okay? Which may be one of the campest things the BBC's ever done.

SPEAKER_00 58:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:31

Right? And that's a fiercely competitive cat category in this day and age. They've done a lot of wonderful stuff.

SPEAKER_05 58:36

Yeah, they have.

SPEAKER_03 58:38

So Kenneth Williams and Hugh Paddock became iconic because Julian and Sandy were funny, they were charming and impossible to ignore. They were just these outrageous camp characters. They were just fantastic. But for many listeners, it was their first exposure to Pilari. Am I going on too long with this? No, no, not at all.

SPEAKER_05 58:54

I'll just make sure everything's on.

SPEAKER_03 58:56

So um, for some people listening quietly at home, it was probably the first time they'd heard something that sounded like their own community being reflected back at them.

SPEAKER_00 59:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:05

Right? It was making them feel that they meant something, that they weren't alone, that actually this is this is something I look forward to listening to. It probably helped them with their mental health.

SPEAKER_05 59:16

Well, it's seeing people like you on TV. Yeah. Isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 59:20

Yeah. Or on the radio, hearing it on the radio.

SPEAKER_05 59:22

I mean, it must must be like, you know, black people back in the day seeing people like them on TV. People to aspire to. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 59:30

So it must have been tailblazer, yeah. So then, so then 1967 arrives and the law does change. Okay, things slowly begin to improve. People become more open, the need for a secret language starts to disappear. Uh, and younger generations begin speaking very differently. Um, some activists even disliked Pilari because they felt it reinforced old stereotypes. So gradually it's faded away, but it never completely vanished because words like naff and juge have survived and clobber.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:00

So let's compare. Look at that handsome man or Vada the Bona trade. Yes. You've got to do it in that way, Vada the trade. Vada the Bonatrade. Exactly. That that's that's how they were back then. Yeah. Okay, it wasn't like oh Vada the Bonatrade. But it gay men were very flamboyant in that day and age. The majority, yeah, you know, that were on our screens and hearing this, and people would would think somebody was oh, you know, he'd be the one down the street, oh, he's not quite right in. Yeah, you know, because you know, he's camp.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:29

Okay. So I think we should bring Piloty back.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:32

I think so as well. I think so.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:34

Tomorrow morning, don't say, nice to see you, say, how boner to Vada you dolly old eek. Don't say he's attractive, say, core, Vada the boner trade. And don't say your outfit needs work, say your club needs a bit of a judge, dear. Will anybody understand you? Probably not. So that's beautiful, isn't it? Isn't it just so how bonato Vada you dolly old eat fit?

SPEAKER_05 1:01:05

Okay. Do you like that? I love it. I absolutely love it.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:10

I love Pilari. I think juz, I mean the word juzge, we use that a lot. We I use juj loads. Yeah. Juz it up. Yeah, absolutely just juz it up. Yeah. Yeah, you know exactly what people do, just make it look a bit better.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:23

A bit better, yeah. Yeah, and clobber. Do you know about clubber? Clubber, yeah. Nath, klobber. Ah bad stuff. I know. I'm sure there's probably still some small groups around and about of men who are trying to keep this alive and are still talking. Yeah, probably.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:36

I mean, so will be. So there's a um I think there's a bar in Manchester and it's called Pilari.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:41

Yeah. Did did anybody speak Pilari in there or not not in not in that way that I've heard.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:49

But uh it's it's it's one of those things, isn't it? Again, we don't need to.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:52

No.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:52

So we don't. We don't, we don't need to. But maybe the way things are going at the moment, because things are going backward and it's it's horrible to see. Um you know, and maybe it's it's something that's gonna get have to get reinvented back in.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:07

I just think I hope not, I really hope not. I just think even if it's not needed because everybody can you speak a bit more freely now, we're staying positive, hope it won't go the other way. But just to bring you know parts of the queer history back, yeah, something that actually helped people survive. This is it. You know, it was so so important, and it's a shame really that it's just like disappeared into the history books now. But I think there's probably still some men out there that try and keep it alive. I'd be nice for them men to it'd be nice for them men to to get like the younger generation and go, this is part of your heritage. Yeah, what you need to learn. Come on, have a pint in the clut in the pub. Let's go in the Pilari and uh we'll teach you some new stuff every week.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:49

That'd be great.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:49

That'd be good, wouldn't it? So there you go. An idea for you gay folk out there who've maybe local to the Pilari Bar in Manchester.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:57

I think it's Manchester Pilari.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:58

There you go, do something like that. That'd be great, that wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:00

I think so.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:01

Thank you very much for that. Hey, you're welcome. So you've all learned something a bit new there.

– Lady Lobotomy

SPEAKER_03 1:03:05

So again, not necessarily outrageously nasty. No, but it's still outrageous, isn't it? It's still outrageous.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:11

I love it, I love it, I love it, I love it. Right, have I got my handkerchief?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:17

Yeah, I'm gonna just have a quick fig roll.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:19

Go on, you have a frig roll. Right, so this lazy lobotomy today. Um it's uh it's really, really nice. And it's not necessarily a question.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:36

Okay, dear lazy lobotomy. My name is Russ. I don't need advice. I simply want to tell you that you all make a difference. I've listened to your pod since you started out and followed the journey of you and the pod, and I now and now I want to tell you about my journey. I'll be brief, I promise. I was in Costa catching up on your podcast on headphones while watching on YouTube. This was around February 2024. I laughed out loud and nearly spat me coffee out over my laptop watching the sex toys for dogs episode. I was so embarrassed, looked around and saw the guy next to me smirking. I took my headphones off and said, uh-uh, I took my headphone headphones off, and he said, The padded sell, and I watched that too.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:22

Really? Amazing.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:24

We got chatting about favourite bits, conversation drifted on to other things, and before we knew it, we drank two coffees and exchanged numbers. Mark is now my fiancee. Oh wow. We got engaged last week. I had to tell you, as we got talk, as we got talking and hooked up because of our shared love of the Padastel podcast. I'm gonna cry, this is amazing. We watch religiously together and have learned so much about each other through having the confidence to talk about awkward stuff, just like you say. We just want you to know that we wouldn't be us without you. Thanks millions, Vic, and all the gang. Pride high fives from Russ, Mark, Fred O, Corgi, and Bonio, who's a dash und.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:07

Not gay then. Oh, dear. I've got two hours, so I can't talk, can I? But it's that's fabulous, that is fabulous. Oh guys, congratulations.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:18

So when I was reading it, I was like, oh, they might both have part of the cell podcast. But the moment we just said, Mark is now my fiance, and we got engaged last week.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:28

I just went, oh You know Vic officiates weddings. Just saying.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:32

I do, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:34

You've done one for friends of well, you did one for Andy and Sarah, didn't you?

SPEAKER_05 1:05:37

This one for Andy and Sarah, and I also did a renewal for uh Orange and Pearl.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:42

Yeah. So Yeah, oh there you go. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:46

We're gonna have a padded so wedding.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:48

Oh, so you know when something just gets you in the feeling. Oh, that's beautiful, beautiful. I read it about four times and I was like, okay, it's Pride Month anyway, so it's really nice to read it out now. Of the you're here as well, so you can release you and T. I love the dogs are called Fredo and Bonio.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:05

That's great, isn't it?

SPEAKER_05 1:06:07

Um I just congratulations, congratulations, guys.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:10

Yeah, amazing.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:11

I love that you're just randomly messing Costa because you're a watcher of the Path itself.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:16

He's looking over your shoulder and he's thinking, Oh Varda Bonatrade.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:22

Vada the trade.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:23

A boner trade. Hang on, what is it? Vada the Boner trade.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:27

Varda the Boner trade.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:28

Come on Vada the Boner trade. While he's looking over your shoulder watching the battered cell, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:32

Yeah, right. So huge congratulations and thank you for sharing your story and your journey. That's amazing. And uh I'd love little updates every now and then. And you didn't send me uh you did send a photo of them, but obviously I'm not sharing that. But you didn't send me a photo of Fredo, Fredo and Bonio. Oh, yeah. I want to see honestly photos, the doggos, please. We like doggos. Yeah, absolutely. Uh so thank you for sharing that. Congratulations. Oh amazing. I love it, I love it. And um yeah, be happy, be happy. Oh, that's lovely. Is that

– Fetish Factoid

SPEAKER_05 1:07:05

nice? Anyway, so now we're gonna do a really filthy fetish factory.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:10

Something nice. We can't be the paddicelle without having a bit of a.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:13

No, it's always like this, isn't it? So, do you know? The muffin man who lives down jury lane.

unknown 1:07:20

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:24

Terrible allies, though.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:29

Okay, so do you know what? A beard splitter is a beard splitter? A beard splitter.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:38

It's what it says on the tin, innit?

SPEAKER_05 1:07:41

Oh I said filthy.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:44

You did. Oh god, I'd read to think.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:48

Okay, so this is very short. A beard splitter is 18th century British slang. For a ladies' man, womanizer,

– Bonus factoid

SPEAKER_05 1:07:58

or someone who frequented brothels. The beard splitter.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:05

That sounds like something would be in Pilari. Didn't it?

SPEAKER_05 1:08:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:10

Oh, look at that beard splitter over there. He's on one again, isn't he?

SPEAKER_05 1:08:14

Imagine the beards back then, they're full of lice and stuff crispy. Well, you know why they use Mercins back in the day. Do you know what a Merkin is? What the fuck's a Merkin? Okay, so this could be a fetish factoid as well. So a little a little Brucey bonus fetish factoid for you. So a Merkin is basically like a toupee minge. So it's like a wig.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:43

I've just seen the time.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:46

Okay. In fact. Oh, he's not working.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:51

So I'm gonna carry on. Anyway, so it's a wig for your minge. A mercin's like a little toupee that you put on your on your fandango. Why would you do that? So, back in the day, prostitutes who had a hairy minge, because they were poor, didn't get washed a lot, went to a lot of license.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:12

They got lice.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:13

So they shaved it off to shave their minge to get rid of the lice. But they'd put a mercin there because if they were bald, the men knew that they'd had lice and wouldn't go anywhere near them. Yeah. So they had a mercin on, so they didn't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:26

Right. So a bit of carpet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:29

They didn't realise that they'd had lice. There you go, a mercin. It's rather than words merkin, that if you say it in a thick scout scouse accent, it sounds really dirty.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:40

So if if we if we bring Pilari back, I want Merkin to replace syrup.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:43

Imagine in Scouse it'd be Merkin. Yeah. And Merkin. It'd sound dirty, a Merkin. But isn't it American?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:51

But could you could you imagine like describing somebody who's obviously had a hair transplant? It'd be like, you know, in Bilari, it'd be like American.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:59

American. Nice. Right, so we're gonna leave it there. What a great pride episode. That's great, wasn't it? Really, really lovely. Really enjoyed that. And I I nearly cried, but I didn't, so I'm so proud of yourself. Honestly, every time I've read that thing, I cried. I'm like, fucking hell. That's why I have the tissue. Just in case.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:20

That's beautiful, that.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:21

Really, really nice. Congratulations, guys.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:24

100%. 100%.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:28

Are you gonna do the thing or shall I do the thing?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:30

I can try it again. Go on. Go on. Okay. So, if you've binge watching, put the kettle on. We'll see you in five. If not, see you next week. Finally.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:45

I feel I feel that need to scream and ghost just as like a celebration scream and ghost.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:54

Just because, for no reason whatsoever. It's one of episodes. This is the first time I've really pressed this, and I can now see why everybody else who gets hold of it. He's pressing it.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:05

Celebrationy fart and ghost scream. That was a long one. It was a long one, that one, yeah. So we're gonna go. And there we have it! Another day made better by listening to the creators of chaos. Thanks for dropping by, and if you enjoyed the show, we'd really appreciate you sharing your love the Patastel Podcast with your friends. Don't forget to give us a follow on our socials, maybe leave us some five-star reviews, and feel free to send us an email to magic at the patestelpodcast.co.uk or even interact us on Facebook because we love chatting to you. Be sure to stop by next week because as Bowie says, I don't know where I'm going next, but I promise it won't be boring. Catch you soon.