060: Political Uncertainty and the Root Chakra // with John Steen

Join us as we engage in a compelling conversation with John Steen, an energy healer who transitioned from a high-stress federal career to a journey of self-discovery. John shares his profound insights into trauma healing, offering strategies to navigate the tumultuous societal landscape. Together, we explore how energy healing modalities, such as meditation and chakra work, can open pathways to access and release internal trauma, setting the stage for resilience and spiritual growth.

John shares personal stories of overcoming childhood trauma and the importance of creating safe spaces for healing. We discuss the significance of womb healing and root chakra work. 

In this conversation, we touch on the challenges of maintaining authenticity amidst spiritual communities. We share experiences of encountering toxic behavior and the manipulation of spiritual ideals, prompting discussions on the necessity of congruence between ideals and actions. Through this exploration, we highlight the importance of forgiveness and self-compassion while navigating personal and collective turmoil. By reflecting on the intersection of spirituality with societal challenges, we underscore the role of creative expression and introspection in processing complex emotions, inviting listeners to explore their own spiritual paths with authenticity and courage.

To learn more about John or to book a session with him:

Visit: https://johnergy.com/

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Frank and Lauren now offer Spiritual Coaching and Empowerment Workshops. Visit www.clairvoyaging.com/services and use code VOYAGER at checkout for 15% off.

Transcript

Lauren 1:02

Hey guys, today we talked to John Steen, an energy healer and teacher. We chatted about trauma healing, john's experience as a previous federal employee and, of course, energy healing, and more, lots more. I'm Lauren Leon.

Frank 1:18

And I'm Frank.

Lauren 1:19

We are a married couple learning how to develop our own intuition. This is episode 60 of Claire Voyaging.

Frank 1:44

Wayfeather Media presents Claire Voyaging. Let's post up Lauren. We got a good one today, all right, let's go. Lauren, we got a good one today, all right, let's go I'm sorry, frank just tickled my neck.

Lauren 1:54

You can't hear what's going on when the music's on.

Frank 1:55

My god, that was so shocking it wasn't, it wasn't, gentle? Hello everyone it wasn't gentle. Listen, it works on my three-year-old yes why wouldn't it work on you?

Lauren 2:06

this is unfiltered. Frank tickled my neck, you like dove I kind of wolverine stabbed you yeah but, okay, hi everyone. Welcome to claire voyaging welcome to the show I'm sorry. I'm sorry about him. Guys, I to tell you we've gotten some amazing emails from you lately and I just want to say, as always, thank you.

Frank 2:30

Thank you.

Lauren 2:31

For not only sharing your experience with us, but just reaching out to say hi.

Frank 2:37

Yeah, it's awesome.

Lauren 2:38

Every time we get emails it's like, oh yeah, that's awesome.

Frank 2:40

Yeah.

Lauren 2:41

It's great to hear that you like the podcast or that something is resonating, and I just wanted to bring that up and say thank you and keep it going.

Frank 2:49

Yeah, it's very fun. Yeah, right to us. Send us something stupid. I don't care, send me a meme. I love memes.

Lauren 2:54

Why not? Yeah, also, um we we love these like listener episodes that we're doing on Patreon.

Frank 3:08

So if you're not a Patreon member, get in there. But also, if you just want to talk about your experience right now, just reach out, we'll have you on the show. It doesn't have to be on the main feed. We can throw it on Patreon if you're not comfortable. But if you're on the main feed, that's fine. We want to hear from you, we want to hear all about it.

Lauren 3:21

So send us an email clearvoyagingpodcast at gmailcom that's the one and, on that note, if you have a suggestion for either a topic or a guest that, like you know, maybe you've talked to a medium that you really trust and like, or an energy healer, tarot card reader, somebody that would be an interesting guest, please let us know yeah, who's out there changing your life?

Frank 3:45

yeah, I don to know what's going on. What's made the big difference? What's given you the hashtag Great Awakening? Oh, you know what I'll?

Lauren 3:58

leave it. What's up? We want to know what's up. You know what? I don't have any other updates, so on that, we're just going to get to John, let me let me, let me warn everybody.

Frank 4:11

I'll give everybody a warning. A little update, what little update. We're changing the intro song and I just don't want to shock anybody.

Lauren 4:18

It'll be yeah. You know, it'll be a fun surprise when we release it.

Frank 4:23

It'll be a fun surprise, you surprise, when we release it. It'll be a fun surprise, you know, maybe next week. Let's just say, yeah, well, no promises. We'll say okay, but uh, I reached out to the person that wrote the song originally. We had gotten it as a stock song. I know I write music. I didn't write this one. Sometimes you just gotta outsource, right? Yeah, we found a good one. Um, I found the person that wrote our original song, the one that you heard just now, and they were down to make an original that sounds very similar but is different.

Frank 4:48

Yeah, and uh, it's really cool. He sent me a a draft of it today and it slaps yes, it does so that's pretty fun.

Lauren 4:58

Stay tuned. We want to be able to use the song for other things and, uh, that's why frank reached out, because we were like we want to have, like, free reign.

Frank 5:05

Yeah we don't want like licensing issues and stuff. So yeah, but you're going to like it, you won't be disappointed, I promise.

Lauren 5:10

Guy, simon or Simone, I'm not sure.

Frank 5:14

Simon Lapine, and we might be butchering that, but go give him some business. He's a songwriter, he's a composer.

Lauren 5:21

Yeah, so, yeah, yeah, so, uh, yeah, cool dude. So now on to our episode. We talked to john steen. John steen and I really enjoyed this episode.

Frank 5:33

I really liked talking to him you know, sometimes you just find the right person at the right time to have the right conversation with yeah and with the state of things today.

Frank 5:42

Uh, you know the way things are going these days, with, I don't know, maybe a little bit of fascism up and coming, a little bit of something. Listen, I don't. This show's not a political show, obviously, but there we run into a little. I've run into a little bit of an issue, and I know Lauren has too. We're trying to be spiritual, we're trying to like work on ourselves and at the same time, it feels like the world is crumbling around us. Yeah. So how do you do that? You can't just ignore it, right. So I found someone who has learned how to not ignore it.

Lauren 6:12

Yeah, so, and in like a healthy, really beautiful way. He's a member of the lgbtq community and so like his perspective is really great. He's an energy healer, so his insight on healing yourself and all that especially during a time of such like turmoil and it's really unsettling I really appreciated everything he had to say. I really enjoyed talking to him. It's just nice sometimes to kind of get back to the trauma healing conversation while also intersecting and how it intersects with politics or like the state of current events.

Frank 6:54

So you can do both.

Lauren 6:56

I hope you enjoy this as much as I liked talking to him.

Frank 7:00

We, we, yes yeah. So Take it away, roll the tape, do you always try to come up?

Lauren 7:03

with a new one, but you end up saying the same. Take it away, roll the tape.

Frank 7:06

Do you always try to come up with a new one, but you end up saying the same thing, or is like roll the tape thing.

Lauren 7:10

It's kind of just become a thing. Ok, I'll try a new one.

Frank 7:13

No, you don't have to. I was just wondering.

Lauren 7:16

Go run the marathon.

Frank 7:18

No, that's no one's ever said that. Give me like a Beastie Boys exclamatory.

Personal Trauma Healing With Energy Work

Lauren 7:23

Let it drop. John Steen, thank you so much for joining us. We love hearing people's backstories and how they got here, so can you tell us a bit about yourself and what brought you to this work that you're doing now?

John 7:41

So about five years ago, in January of 2020, right before the pandemic hit I had resigned from my 33 year career. I worked for the federal government for 33 years and I had filed a discrimination lawsuit in 2016. And just the retaliation from filing that for four to five years and then I became a whistleblower on top of that. The retaliation from that was just so immense that during that time right in December of 2019, I was on vacation for two weeks and they were retaliating against me while I was on vacation and for me.

John 8:35

There are some times when things have happened in my life that I hear and feel a click inside me and feel a click inside me. And while I was experiencing that retaliation over the Christmas and New Year holiday, I realized it's time for me to leave. I have to leave or I'm going to die. I was having panic attacks which I had never had in my whole life, and so I made the decision to resign from my career. I was four years shy of receiving my pension, which I'm receiving now, but resigning meant that I have no healthcare, which was okay because I'm in great health have always been in great health, thankfully and I had been saving money and I decided to live off of my 401k and my goal was to go back to work within a year, maybe take a year off. And then the pandemic hit and I just kind of went down a rabbit hole there and I had put down meditation which I had picked up during the stress of my job. A co worker had recommended insight timer to me to me.

John 10:05

And so I picked it back up in October of 2020. And that's when Insight Timer started doing their live sessions, and so I just immersed myself in everything all these different modalities that I had never even tried, and one of them was energy healing, and I had never tried it. I was doing it over my, through my phone, and for about six months I was just noticing this change within me and I decided to take the class that the teacher was offering, and what I had really actually realized was that the reaction to the trauma of my job was really a trauma response from my entire life, basically my childhood, that I have been trying to heal my entire life. I could never get anywhere through therapy, group therapy, going to Al-Anon, I could never get anywhere. So when I entered my 40s, I actually just I had it was a I kind of gave up in a way, where I just realized I'm going to have to learn to live with this feeling of abandonment that I knew that I was carrying my whole life, and so that's what I did.

John 11:35

I kind of resigned and kind of stopped doing spiritual stuff and any type of healing, any type of healing, and during that five years of the work, stress. As a spiritual person, I knew that there had to be a bigger reason and I constantly was asking why is this happening to me? And I could never find a reason because I was just so immersed in it. And it wasn't until after I quit and was just doing a lot of meditation and energy healing and that's when I got the answer. And it was my trauma, it was the universe was nudging me.

John 12:13

I have to deal with this, abandonment issues, I have to deal with what happened to me as a child and so that, doing the energy healing, I was able to get to my trauma, my childhood trauma, in a very, very short time. And when I started this journey with energy healing, my goal wasn't really to become a practitioner myself, although I left that door open because I didn't know what I was going to do with the rest of my life after I quit my job. And then, as I just immersed myself with the class and the teachings and the healing that I was doing, that's when I just I said I have to let other people know about this, like many things that I've read, and even my teachers say energy healing accelerates healing and I have experienced that myself in the teaching that I'm doing. It's just a really amazing modality, healing modality that has just changed my life and changed the course and direction of my life.

Lauren 13:40

Okay, I love that, love that I I can relate to that so much because I learned reiki, uh, like over a year ago, and I mean our listeners have heard me in the midst of like huge bursts of healing, um, and it's so incredible how it really does change. Like it's so different from therapy, because you can talk about the problem all day but there's something different about like getting in there energetically and like releasing it and letting it go and like just understanding like kind of the bigger picture. So I love that. That's really inspiring.

Healing Trauma Through Energy Work

Frank 14:28

Yeah, let me ask you, obviously, like traditional therapy versus doing your own internal trauma work.

Frank 14:35

It's it's two different modalities, right Of, of healing and the thing I always avoided therapy because in and not I'm not speaking poorly about therapy, but I've always avoided, avoided therapy because I'm very heady and I think about this stuff already and I was always like, oh well, there's nothing that anyone's going to tell me that I haven't thought of.

Frank 14:55

And then when I was like I guess I guess this is just the way I am, but then one around the time I got around to like learning reiki also lauren attuned to me and then I learned more about doing your own internal trauma work. It's like, oh wait, I have a main line to these uncomfortable feelings and I don't need someone else to tell me, like to try and trigger me so that I can get raw and start feeling it. So much of it is just like you have access to your own healing path already. So I don't know. I just wanted to hear a little bit more about how that worked out for you, like the realization of you know, after so much time, like that you can do it yourself.

John 15:33

That has been my journey, right, that for energy healing. What my journey with it? It creates the space within my energy field, my system, my body, and what was happening is there were triggers that were occurring in my life and they were with my friends and what I did is I followed those triggers anytime something happened and that was able to get me to the trauma, to my pain with my parents. My mom was an alcoholic growing up, so that was a big source of my trauma and she drank while she was pregnant with all three kids. I'm the oldest of three.

John 16:17

So my first journey with the energy healing was actually doing some womb healing, which is very, very deep, deep work, because most people I mean we can say, like you can hear someone talk about that and it's like, oh, the mother drank when she was pregnant, like we can all vision, like, oh, that's horrible, that's not. You know, the child is going to grow up. It can be some cognitive problems maybe in their brain, right, and an adult, and yes, I've experienced all that. But we all have stuff in the womb. We are all affected by the energy of whatever the mom was experiencing and feeling herself in her own wounds. If you know. That's how it's kind of all passed down in a way that that generational trauma, and then how her spouse or partner is treating her right, how she's feeling and receiving that. So we all have that womb stuff going on within us, but some of us it is a little deeper. So that's where it went for me to start. It was going in to do some womb healing.

Frank 17:36

I don't think we've encountered that term before womb healing. Can you tell us what that is?

John 17:43

There are things that, with the modality that I use with field dynamics, it's a three. Most of the we call them protocols and they're 60 minutes, but if I work with clients or groups, I would do 45 minutes to 50 minutes. And there's this three hour protocol that we do for womb healing and it's kind of called energetic recapitulation and it's about going back and being in the womb and it's about going back when you are. I can't recall specifically the timeframe, but it's, let's say, three months while you're, you know, gestation period, and then maybe six months or nine months and you can do it over and over this energetic recapitulation.

John 18:42

Energetic recapitulation Because what I've learned as well is if you I'm not sure if you're familiar with Anodea Judith she does a lot of chakra books and talks a lot about chakras and she talks about if you have a damaged root chakra, then all of your chakras will be damaged. And so I kind of now thinking, okay, I have this experience, this womb trauma, my mother drank right. That affected me. How has that affected all of my other chakras?

Lauren 19:22

in a way, yeah, that's so interesting because I mean like linking the root chakra with the womb. The root chakra is responsible for like safety, security, belonging, and if you're like going back into doing womb healing and you maybe didn't even realize, obviously consciously, that you weren't feeling safe or secure because of the like energetic stuff going on, that's so interesting.

John 19:54

Yeah, for me, what I wrote a blog about it too is I could just picture me as a fetus and being fed alcohol and trying to escape and get out of there wow like the little, my little arms and legs yeah you know, just reacting to that alcohol in my system yeah, oh my gosh so is, excuse me, so you you kind of uh, are you?

Frank 20:22

are you uh envisioning this in a meditative state, or are you actually like, yeah, how does this? What's the actual process? That didn't this in a meditative state, or are you actually like, what's the actual process?

John 20:28

That didn't happen in a meditative state for me, that was just my thoughts and feelings about what was happening in the womb, the thing that happened for me my whole life. I always wondered where and how my abandonment issues, where they started was it because this happened at five years old, or this happened at six years old? Had a live was very, very traumatic childhood and once I allowed myself to say, oh, this started in the womb because my mother drank. Everything opened up for me around that. I burst into tears and was able to go to that and feel the trauma in a way.

Lauren 21:21

Like yes, this is where it started for me.

John 21:23

Wow, yeah, I mean, that makes sense. It releases blocks in our system. Yeah, that makes sense. Trauma, it releases blocks in our system.

Lauren 21:27

Yeah, can you say what the energy modality is?

John 21:47

healing energy field dynamics and I found them on Inside Timer. They're amazing teachers and the modality is very, very strong and very potent and it's just, it's worked wonders for me. You know, now that I'm teaching it and have clients and you know, teach on Inside Timer. I'm seeing amazing experiences with people, you know, doing it collectively in groups. That feels like my more specialty.

Lauren 22:10

Yeah, oh, that's so cool.

Frank 22:12

Why don't I have Insight Timer? You know we interviewed another teacher from Insight Timer, latanya Hill, and she was so awesome and you're already so awesome Like I need to get on this thing right now.

Lauren 22:21

This is like a commercial Insight Hill. I did write Insight Hill you on this thing right now.

Frank 22:23

This is like a commercial. I think you just typed in Insight Hill.

Lauren 22:25

I did write Insight Hill. You know what I shouldn't be?

Frank 22:27

downloading apps in the middle of a podcast anyway, so I'll do that later I've used Insight. That's how I found it, I know, I know Insight.

Lauren 22:33

Timer is great.

Frank 22:35

I guess my question now, if it's not too personal, is like root chakra damage from your before you did your womb healing. How was that? Um, I don't know. How was history repeating essentially with your, your friends and stuff, what was triggering for you?

John 22:52

Um, yeah, it was my codependency and people pleasing, yeah, seeking external validation.

Frank 23:01

Got it.

John 23:03

Through this experience that I've been through this past four plus years of this healing part of my journey, I've always I moved. I grew up in Massachusetts, boston, and I moved to San Francisco in 1988. And so I created and formed my own family. Right God, I just forgot the term that we all would use your chosen family, my chosen family.

Lauren 23:32

Yeah.

John 23:33

I had friends 20, 30 years of friends and most of them are all gone now I have lost so many of my friends in this journey. I was actually surprised by that because I did feel secure in my relationships with my friends because they lasted so long. But I was holding on so tight and I was people pleasing and codependent with every single person and that's all root chakra stuff and for me it's the safety and security right. I'm seeking their validation. I'm trying to get that safety and security by seeking the validation. And then fear.

John 24:18

Fear is such a big thing for me in my life and that's all root chakra stuff as well. That's the shadow of the root chakra is fear. So that all really worked. It's just like kind of put me in a rabbit hole in a way. It was very hard losing all those friends, but I have to say it needed to happen. I can go inside and feel like this is what actually needed to happen for me to grow and level up and move to the next level or ascend up in a way. Yeah, how did they handle that?

Frank 24:58

to grow and level up and move to the next level or ascend up in a way. Yeah, how did they handle that?

John 25:01

I didn't really talk about what I was going through, in a way, with the energy healing. I would speak a little bit about it, but there wasn't much curiosity because I had no boundaries either. And so once I started asserting my boundaries and asserting myself, that's when, when the conflicts came was it like a natural separation then, like you just divided over time?

Frank 25:28

or did you? Were you like I can't hang out with you because I have a codependency?

John 25:32

Yeah, it was all of it yeah.

Frank 25:35

Yeah.

John 25:36

Cause I have actually gone figuring out like oh you know, my mom was a narcissist. Well, look, here's a bunch of friends that I can see narcissistic tendencies. Right, like how I attracted that because I'm so used to that.

Lauren 25:51

Yeah, yeah, that unhealed part that, if you're you know, if you have so much unhealed trauma, your body seeks what it knows.

Frank 26:01

Also narcissists find you.

Lauren 26:04

Right, yeah, I mean, a narcissist wants to hang out with the people, pleaser, because they're going to do everything they want you to do and your fear of abandonment keeps you in that relationship because you're so worried that whatever you're going to do is going to. I feel this a lot worried that like upsetting someone is going to the ultimate. What if in conflict? For me is always they're not going to be friends with me anymore. I'll never talk to them again because they don't like me or don't want me around or whatever. To them again because they don't like me or don't want me around or whatever. And so you kind of keep perpetuating that cycle and seeking out people that'll keep feeding that monster 100 percent, yeah, wow and did you find that, like your work, your work experience was also mirroring that relationship?

John 27:03

Oh, absolutely. I actually had realized that 20 years before, when I first had around 2000,. I had a problem at my job because I stayed at this one agency for 28 years and I had also filed a discrimination lawsuit. And I realized at that time me staying with the federal government because you pretty much have to murder someone to get fired from the federal government.

John 27:30

And until now until now, for me it was security. I was searching for that security. So when something started to happen 20 years prior that put me into a tailspin and I realized I knew that it was a security thing going on.

John 27:50

And I was seeking that security, but I didn't heal that part of me. So to your question yes, 100%, that that is exactly why I stayed for so long. Well, right, being treated the way I was being treated, instead of asserting myself and saying I'm getting out of here. You know, I deserve better than this. Yeah, because it was secure for me I've.

Lauren 28:19

I mean I feel like a lot of people can relate to staying in a job that's not right for you, but it's safe oh, yeah, hi hi yep a lot of people can relate to also staying in like a relationship because it's safe, even though you know hi even though not you, I know I hope I've been in this way too long Wow.

Frank 28:48

This is a really weird way to tell me, babe.

Lauren 28:53

No, but I had. I was also, I was in a job that wasn't right for me, toxic like, but felt safe because it was like you know, well, paying like it paid well, all that. And then a relationship that was like I don't think this is the right one, but safety, because also, again, that fear of what does this, the fear of not having that safety, feels a little bit worse than like well, I know this, you know, even if it's a little off.

John 29:30

Yes, fear keeps you stuck, 100%. It's something that I still constantly work with around is fear. There is this teacher on inside timer who talks about fear and it really struck me. Fear keeps you stuck in your ego. It keeps that focus on yourself and like, oh, that's a great way to look at it. Right, I'm stuck in my ego self. Yeah, oh, my gosh, this does not matter, that's a great way to look at it Right, I'm just, I'm stuck in my ego self.

Frank 30:01

Yeah, oh, my gosh. This does not matter, but out of curiosity, which agency was it I? I worked Just to be clear. I have cosmic level clearance, so like your secrets are safe with me.

John 30:12

I worked for the drug enforcement administration. Oh wow, yeah, okay. And the drug enforcement administration? Oh wow, yeah, okay. And um, um, I've not. I've never mentioned what my whistleblowing is in public and I don't feel comfortable still doing that. But going on, it was never cleared and it's it's pretty um drastic why it's pretty bad just saying that, yeah, I mean wow with.

Toxic Behavior in Spiritual Communities

Frank 30:41

I mean that's a big. I think we can all assume, yeah, yeah, we can all assume what's allowed to happen and that's like that kind of stuff is insane. Speaking of speaking of not being happy with the government, there's a lot going on these days. Yeah, this and to for anybody who's listening to this in the future, it is today is february 5th, 2025 and shit's gone sideways. And you know personally, you know, john, I saw you, um, was it on Instagram? Yeah, I saw a video you put on Instagram where you were talking about like you know how you can struggle with being a spiritual person, trying to be like someone who's living in high vibes and like trying to be the change you want to see in the world, but then how do you interact with the world? That's not doing the thing that it should be doing or respecting um, respecting people in human life.

Lauren 31:45

Right. So what made you want to talk to John was because you saw a video where you said you were in a mindfulness class and someone started talking. I'm interested in how this came up, because you said someone started saying illegals and they were like I don't feel comfortable with this and then you left the class.

Frank 32:04

Can you talk about that? Yeah, let's let them tell the story, okay, yeah?

John 32:06

yeah, um, I there, I was with this, um it's through whatsapp. Um, um, we were. It was a chat group. They were friends that I've made over the years from Insight Timer. So there were and it's five of us in the United States, one European and two people from India, and we talk about a lot of things in the chat. It's one of those chat things that is daily all the time, and it was a beautiful support system that we created there for about three years and I was the only male in that chat group and this person just it's not the first time they had done it used the term illegals to describe migrants, and the first time that they did it, I didn't say anything because they were having a conversation with someone who was actually an immigrant.

Lauren 33:11

And.

John 33:11

I was a little surprised they didn't speak up. So I felt bad that I didn't speak up at that time. And then I actually had a conversation with that person where she was also demeaning towards trans people and other people spoke up and, you know, were supportive of my position and because I was trying to educate this person about trans issues. And so then all of a sudden it just out of the blue it came up. This person used the term illegals to describe migrants and I shot back just saying, hey, migrants. And I shot back just saying hey, could we please not use that term? There is no person on earth who is illegal. People may do illegal things, but nobody is illegal.

Lauren 34:08

Yeah.

John 34:08

This is not. It's a very dehumanizing term. Yeah, please not say that. And the person who is an immigrant chimed in and she explained she didn't like that term either and how it has been used against her and da da, da, da da. And so then I woke up the next morning with uh to the text and saying, um, it is not a dehumanizing term, I'm going to use it and I'm not going to be lectured to.

Frank 34:42

The classic double down, oh man.

John 34:45

Total double down and I was very you know mindful in both of my responses and I just said, okay, this is just not the space for me If this is what's going to be used, because I also brought up being an LGBT person of the time that they had used a meaning language to describe trans people, and so when in my response I was totally dismissed, nothing about the comments on LGBT were brought up, and so I was like this does not feel good, this does not feel safe and I have to assert my boundaries, and so I decided to leave the group. And I don't know how separate people. They all reached out to me, including this person, sent a separate message but didn't even take responsibility for their language or their demeaning tone or language and didn't even acknowledge my feelings. It was just like oh, I'm sorry, you feel unsafe?

Frank 36:02

Oof. That's what I said.

John 36:06

It was just like and I didn't even respond to the message Just like there was no, I can't get through to this person. They're not going to hear me or acknowledge my feelings whatsoever, so I let that go. But other people were very supportive and sorry to see me leave.

Lauren 36:25

Yeah, that's the worst response. I'm sorry you feel unsafe. I'm sorry I created an environment that made you feel unsafe. That's insane.

Navigating False Spirituality and Toxic Behavior

Frank 36:37

So, lauren and I are kind of new to the you know spiritual world, like. We've been doing this podcast for a year and this has been our big like reorganization of our own personal spiritual beliefs through, through interviews and talking to people who are in it every day um, people like yourself. One of the biggest disappointing things that I've found is that, even as a spiritual spiritual community, there are, there's, there's a almost a subset of a toxic spirituality that resembles I don't even know it's. It's exactly what you ran into. It's like, oh, like, how do you, how do you believe in? Um, healing and energetic? And, like you, I think what you described as like the, the freedom to exist in the spiritual world, which is what the spiritual world is, and then also be comfortable with, with being demeaning, is what's happening. What is this?

John 37:33

those two things there. I mean I have to say it's manipulation, right? Because when, if your, if your words, if your words and actions aren't matching, that's manipulation, and refusing to take responsibility or be held accountable for it, that's gaslighting. That's what I'm seeing going on there.

Lauren 37:59

I don't know. I feel like there's some false spirituality also. There's people who are like I'm going to get in a group of people and we're going to dress in white dresses and, like you know, use oil and and vote for RFK, and we're holistic and we don't. You know, like it's that over the top, like, but it's like.

Frank 38:30

Well, it's like it's ego infused spirituality and it's and it's gatekeeping for other people.

Lauren 38:36

And it feels false. And they're the woo-woo people sometimes.

Frank 38:41

Well, we're the woo-woo people too, I know this sounds judgy. Yeah.

Lauren 38:43

But it feels inauthentic.

Frank 38:48

Well, it's gatekeeping, it's setting up a hierarchy. You need them to do it and because it's feeding their ego, they also let you know. Here's the new rules. And also, I don't like illegals, something like that, where it's like they're just making up stuff yeah it's not true.

Frank 39:04

There's true elements to it, which is, and that makes it even more dangerous. I think that's why it's so disappointing is if you're presenting yourself in under the guise of like, like, open mindedness and spirituality and like, everyone has the right to exist and love and compassion and all those things, but you're not showing that.

Frank 39:20

Yeah it's, it's dangerous because people who are ready for a spiritual journey, a real one, like, might find those people first and, and yeah, just get stuck in an entirely different system of inauthenticity, of, of, of, of, you know, toxic behavior.

John 39:39

Yes.

Frank 39:41

That scares the crap out of me. I found them. I found them in 2020, when we're all locked down. When you found insight timer. I found the people who are very into like QA, non and like deep conspiracies and I was like what? And initially I was like Lauren, look, how funny this is. And then it started to not be funny because I realized how many of them there were and how they were also very ingrained into this new age spirituality and and they're still out there.

Lauren 40:05

There is an intersection where there's like the kind of not so like QA, non type, and then and then the the spiritual, like wait, but but you know I've been red pilled or whatever. It's not quite a spiritual awakening. You know, if you're just buying into like every conspiracy possible, and that's the other thing.

Frank 40:29

Is they like they? They hijacked all the terms like spiritual awakening and all these things you type in. Spiritual awakening, it's going to be 50 50 on whatever platform you're on. Some awakening, it's going to be 50, 50 on whatever platform you're on. Some of those people are going to be dangerous. Right, and it's it's. It's horrifying to me.

John 40:44

And then they, they've taken, like I, I like to use the term God to use um, higher source, higher power, infinite spirit. You know all the, all different terms. I still use god and they've like hijacked the term god. Yeah, well, yeah, you have to be a right winger christian, you know yeah yes, 100, yeah it's, it's disappointing, it's disappointing and dangerous.

Frank 41:14

Under this, like under the current circumstances that we're, in which you know, there's a lot of uncomfortable feelings that are coming up for me. I I grew up. My audience is tired of hearing this, but I'm gonna say it again. I grew up like playing in punk bands and stuff. Granted, we were like suburban punk, so it was mostly like complaining about your parents and your teachers and stuff like that. But you know, now, as an adult, you know my parents are my friends and, uh, I don't like the government now, uh, so you never did.

Frank 41:43

I never did but, like you know, uh, I'm in a situation now and I think a lot of people are where where, um, if you are focused on your own spiritual journey and trying to heal and become a better version of yourself, and you have two options and it's to like, continue trying to engage in the world and deal with difficult emotions, or turn off the news and and disengage entirely. And if you decide to engage, it can. It can start, uh, it's road bumps in your spiritual journey. If you don to engage, it can start. It's road bumps in your spiritual journey if you don't know how to handle it correctly. And if you disengage, your spiritual journey is false, in my opinion, because part of your existence is you need to participate in society.

John 42:33

Yes.

Frank 42:35

So what the hell do we do, man, like I'm trying to be, like like exhibit high vibes and stuff and like be the person that I want to be, but at the end of a long day and I hear you know, the baby tea, like, say, is terrible things and I have a little bit of rage in my heart and I don't know how to process that, and I'm sure a lot of people don't. Do you have, do you have suggestions?

John 43:00

I was. I was after the election. I I was going to do exactly what you were talking about. I'm going to check out. I can't deal with this anymore. Like let me turn this over. I, you know, as someone older, you know, let the, let the younger gays handle this.

Frank 43:23

Yeah.

John 43:25

If they can get off their phones, right, I wanted to check out. I stopped watching news. I haven't gone back to the news. I'm a news junkie. My whole life I've been a news junkie. What happened for me? I've had a great with all this time. I've had great bouts of creativity happen for me, right? So, um, and then I'm I thought, well, like how do I speak about this, my feelings, and just going quiet and going within in December really, really helped me that time that, no, I can't exactly what you said. That's not if I disengage, that's not living the spiritual life, right, that's. I'm here on a journey and dealing with what is in front of me is part of that journey, right, we're all part of a collective society. Yep, I think my soul wanted to come here at this time, right? Okay, so now half of us are dealing with this, let's just say, in America, even though it's happening all over the world.

Frank 44:43

Sure yeah.

John 44:45

So, ok, what are we doing now? What, like? What do we do? And I do think that there are. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Lisa A Romano.

John 44:55

No she's she teach. She's an amazing teacher. She talks a lot about narcissism and adult children of alcoholics and she had this talk the beginning of December that I honestly try to listen to every day. It's a self-empowerment talk and she says if there are people out there spiritual teachers, politicians saying look how bad the election is and they're just constantly spreading fear, right, which I can easily get into and maybe distrust that right, if we're going to, if you're a spiritual teacher, you have to hang on to the light right. Hang on to the light right. Offer hope and faith. Right, I'm going to be 58 soon. I've seen a lot, you know. I came out in the mid 80s at the beginning of AIDS. I know how bad these people are.

John 45:57

I've seen it my whole life. At that time in the the 80s, gay men were the most dehumanized people on the planet yeah it's, very few people can understand what what that was like.

John 46:11

And so now that we're seeing that happening to trans people, and now it's you know, it's the the dehumanization of migrants and the dehumanization of black people, which has always, always, always been there, which we've never dealt with in this country. You're seeing it all coming together and I don't know if that, I don't know if we're seeing yet that collective action, but I do think we have to stay focused on the light, because if we go dark and be all negative and in the dark, that's not going to work either right.

John 46:58

Light helps the darkness, so we just have to keep shining that light and that I do believe that we will get through this, because right before the election, I saw a social media post on TikTok, which I've now deleted, but this minister I forget where he is, it's on my Instagram but he was talking about something right now is trying to be born and it's not as loud and as fearful and dark as what is dying right.

John 47:34

Something right now is dying and something is waiting to be born, and something is waiting to be born and that's what I'm holding my hope on and that hopefully, we live long enough to see what is on the other side of what we're living through now. But I think that we have to face what's in front of us right here, right now, today. So we can't go to the future there's no bus taking us there. We can't live in the past. There's no bus there, even though our minds want to go there right. What is right in front of us now? And that's what I'm trying to hold as an energy healing practitioner, as a spiritual teacher, and holding on to the light, but also dealing with the reality that's in front of us and trying to find a way to merge those things.

Frank 48:32

If that makes sense, it does talking, because you inspired me to write it down was that you know some of the fearful things. We can't ignore that they're happening, but fear without a sense of empowerment of what to do about it is just half of the story. It's half of the journey, right? So, like I suppose the best antidote to any of the negative emotions that you're having in the current events are to find things that empower you, and I suppose any type of In a world where, in a country in the moment, where they're trying to take things away from you, finding your own sense of empowerment, however that might look, is a way to fight back and is a way to remember that you belong. You should be here.

John 49:29

Yes, because you see so many people, spiritual teachers, just everyday. People don't obey in advance, right?

Lauren 49:42

Yeah.

John 49:43

Joy is still spread, joy still have a life right. We can still have joy and love and all those things, because that's what they don't like. They don't want to see us happy, because I think that's why we're in that state as well, to see us happy, because I think that's why we're in that state as well. I have a theory on that that we're in this state because of social media in a way, because what you've seen in the birth of social media in the last what 15 years and everyone having phones, right, we're seeing Black people have told us for centuries how they are policed differently. George Floyd, we saw that on video Social media. You see LGBT people sharing what we've gone through. Black people are sharing it, women are sharing it now, sharing their story with the whole Me Too movement, their bodily autonomy tank, right.

John 50:45

So collectively, society is seeing that marginalized people aren't living the way everyone else is living in a way, right. So we're showing you that on social media, marginalized people and I think the ruling class, the wealth class, like, oh no, we can't have that because, right, history shows us in Germany in the early 30s, germany, berlin, was the most progressive society in the world and what happened, right. So now we're seeing that, the progressive, you're seeing evolution happening. You can't stop evolution, right? That's why I think what's happening with the trans community, it's evolution. It's always been there, but it's just coming into people's minds and people can't handle that. It's just too much. They can't understand what someone who is intersex right, or why would someone want to change their, their genitalia. They don't understand what people other people feel inside. They're only experiencing what they feel inside with them. Yeah.

Frank 51:58

Yeah, yeah, no 100%.

Lauren 52:03

Sorry, I just want to go back to the. I really like the. It's such an interesting concept about like fear being louder than hope, like I was boiling down, boiling it down to what you were saying, but that's my takeaway is that we're so many people like it's, like this collective, unhealed trauma, exactly what we were talking about earlier. Sometimes that's so much louder and more powerful, like energetically keeping us all stuck, than choosing to like have hope or go, and, you know, live in the light and in love and all that.

John 52:56

It's a really interesting way to think about it yeah, and that's that's the greatest thing that anyone can do, right. So we're in this time and you're feeling something, right After the election that really triggered my fight or flight and my safety and security. I looked into should I flee this country? Right, that really triggered me. So if those things are triggering, you look in to find out why follow those triggers and that could be a space of healing for you. And if you heal something, you heal the collective right. So use this time to see why is this triggering me in a way to do your own personal healing, because the more people do that, that heals the collective.

Lauren 53:50

I love that. I've been feeling like a little more like I get sensitive to sadness or collective like fear and oh yeah, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be honest with everybody for a minute.

Frank 54:09

It's not uncommon these days to walk into my family room and see lauren draped over the couch.

Navigating Trauma and Healing Processes

Lauren 54:14

In in like a woe is me position like yeah, damsel and I'm like hey, I'm sorry, I told you about the news today, but yeah, like Frank, gets pissed, I get sad and I think how that's great advice to think about, to heal more in myself, because there's clearly something that's triggering me regarding safety or security, or or just fear or the sadness what?

John 54:51

what is making? Why are you getting sad? Yeah yeah you, we can't control how anybody else thinks or feels, except for ourselves, right.

Lauren 55:04

Yeah.

John 55:04

We, we. I want everyone to like, I want to shake everyone and say wake up. But I can't Right. That's, that's just. That's my own control, right? Yeah, I can only control me and my responses, my reactions, yeah.

Lauren 55:21

That's great my reactions. Yeah, that's great, John.

Frank 55:24

Thank you, you know to make it sound like we, to make it sound like this entire interview was on purpose.

Lauren 55:30

It was.

Frank 55:33

Something that I noted when you said specifically don't obey in advance. I don't know, that's a line out of the On Tyranny book. Huh yeah, obey in advance.

Frank 55:40

And that's a line out of the On Tyranny book. Huh yeah, not obeying in advance, relaying that to like your personal journey. You know, when you succumb to the damage done or the unhealed element of like your root chakra, you're really just falling into line with people who know how to exploit that and like and and you're an inspiration because, because you did the right thing after you know 30 something years and and figured out how you needed to to work within the system, to be yourself and, and I don't know, I guess maybe I'm proposing that anybody who's having very, anybody who's having deep issues regarding security about what's going on in the world right now personal security and feeling safe it might be beneficial to do some root chakra work and use that as a source of your own personal empowerment. Make sure that you know that you feel safer. Put yourself in an environment that makes you safe. Get out of an environment that makes you feel unsafe.

Lauren 56:43

Start doing that work and then start being yourself yes I'm not a therapist no, but that's inspiring me like to to do, do some root chakra like exercises or like you know, extra stuff to help like keep that root chakra more clear.

John 57:05

I think it's important and healed and where are those spaces right? Families, jobs, maybe friendships, right?

Frank 57:13

where are?

John 57:13

those places that you don't feel safe, that you're, you're maybe seeking that external validation to feel safe Right.

Frank 57:23

Right and I'll also throw in there. It can also be a point of uh no-transcript.

John 1:02:48

So those are basic qualities of life. So if I think, if those people start losing that, maybe that will wake them up.

Lauren 1:02:56

I don't know, but I feel like we have to welcome that yeah yeah, I also feel like living in shame or guilt doesn't serve you at all. So my my advice would be let it go, move forward and forgive yourself. It's just a lesson. That's anybody who makes a wrong choice or well wrong.

Frank 1:03:24

I'm a mistake. We all make mistakes, we all make mistakes.

Lauren 1:03:29

But yeah, like it doesn't help you to kind of like keep living in it. Forgive and give yourself grace.

Frank 1:03:39

Yeah.

Lauren 1:03:39

That's with anything, yeah.

Frank 1:03:41

Yeah, that's with anything. Yeah, yeah.

John 1:03:43

I will say for myself personally how I've handled it with people in my life. I do try to live my life by the James Baldwin quote that we can still disagree and love one another unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression, my right to exist. And I just blanked on the third one. There are three things in that quote. It's one of my favorite quotes and that's how I live my life with them. If there are people in my life and I'm'm perfect example leaving that group, right, yeah, you, you.

Frank 1:04:23

that didn't jibe with me, so I need to go now yeah that quote actually makes me feel better because I've been trying to figure out, because, like lauren said, like I get, I get a little rageful and like what is it for someone who's trying to, like you know, lead a spiritual, like healthy, high vibrational life? You know, feeling that rage like I don't know what to do with it, but also I'm only rageful because of what's being done to other people and like it brings up this existential question for me is it okay to very much dislike I'm avoiding the word hate people who hate other people for no reason? And you know, I just, I just there's never a good time. There's never a good time to hate, to oppress people.

John 1:05:11

No no.

Frank 1:05:13

And I'm wondering if maybe they are the bad guys. I don't know, I don't know, I don't know.

Lauren 1:05:28

Well, man, john, this conversation has been so needed, so necessary, I think, yeah, like especially, I mean for me personally. I'm like, oh, this has been really helpful, just thinking about like fear and trauma and how the current time, the current events, are impacting just me and like my wellbeing, and I really appreciate your insight. It's been, it's been really enlightening.

Frank 1:05:57

Yeah, thank you very much. Tell, tell everybody where to where to find you and and and and. Yeah, like all your, all your plugs for your. I know you said you're off of social now, but maybe a website or something.

John 1:06:05

Yeah, my website is johnnergycom and I'm also on Instagram at Johnnergy Healing and on YouTube Johnnergy Healing, and really try, if you're curious about it. Come to Insight Timer it's free. It's a free wellness app. I teach there, sometimes two to five days a week and I do a lot of trauma work. I have two courses that were just released on Inside Timer. In October I actually merged my energy healing practice with the mother and father wound, so I merged those two modalities together and I created two courses on that, and that's part of the Inside Timer premium subscription, which is only $60 a year. You get access to thousands of courses and people are really have gotten amazing responses to the course and I do a lot of that work, that trauma work, in my Inside Timer Live. So if you're curious about that, check out Inside Timer. Come and, you know, come to one of my lives.

Lauren 1:07:15

Awesome, fantastic.

Frank 1:07:17

John, you're a lovely person. Thank you so much for your help today.

John 1:07:20

Thank you so much for having me and reaching out. Thank you very much. Thank you so much, lovely person. Thank you so much for your help today. Thank you so much for having me and reaching out. Thank you very much.

Lauren 1:07:24

Thank you so much, John. We'll talk to you soon.

Frank 1:07:33

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