Clairvoyaging

066: Milestones // Lauren and Frank Define Spiritual Sovereignty

• Wayfeather • Season 1 • Episode 66

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Ever trusted someone who claimed special spiritual insight, only to find yourself feeling manipulated, diminished, or confused afterward? You're not alone. In this personal episode, Lauren and Frank share lessons learned in the raw aftermath of an interview gone wrong with a self-proclaimed psychic business coach who crossed ethical boundaries and targeted their deepest insecurities.

What began as a conversation about bringing spirituality into business quickly devolved into an uncomfortable reading that left both hosts questioning themselves. The experience became a powerful catalyst for developing clear spiritual discernment—the ability to distinguish between authentic guidance and predatory tactics.

From this difficult experience emerged the Clairvoyaging tenets: sovereignty over obedience, empowerment over dependency, do no harm, and take no shit (with the unofficial fifth tenet: "suck a bag of trash"). These principles serve as guardrails for maintaining personal power while remaining open to spiritual growth and connection.

Whether you're navigating psychic readings, spiritual teachers, or self-proclaimed gurus, this episode offers practical wisdom for trusting your intuition and protecting your energy without closing yourself to genuine spiritual expansion. Have you learned to trust your "sacral no" when something feels off? Your journey of discernment and spiritual sovereignty starts here.

Clairvoyaging is now a fiscally sponsored project of Fractured Atlas, a 501(c)(3) charity, so any donations are now tax deductible. If you’d like to support our projects that aim to foster understanding for diverse spiritual belief systems, visit www.clairvoyaging.com/support. 

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Lauren:

Welcome, voyagers. In this episode, frank and I are chatting about recent lessons we learned around spiritual discernment, our show's tenets, our upcoming documentary and listening to your sacral know. I'm Lauren Leon.

Frank:

And I'm signing up to CrossFit.

Lauren:

We are a married couple learning how to develop our own intuition, and this is episode 66 of Claire Voyaging. Wayfeather Media presents Claire Voyaging.

Frank:

word oh word to your mother I hit the button at the wrong time and it cut off, but let's go with it, is it? Gonna just sound like yeah it's gonna sound like a herd I filled it in for you.

Lauren:

It's thanks, hi pals hey guys hey, frank, we, we got a lot.

Frank:

We got some new updates you have been giving me little tidbits here and there for the week and it's been quite fun you know what?

Lauren:

we got some new patreon members my buttons are ready jennica keep going, keep going, keep going, christine hannah, georgia. What oh?

Frank:

welcome friends guys holy cow are you for serious?

Lauren:

yeah, what a nice time I know it's a it's great welcome to the party, friends. Yeah uh, you guys welcome. Also, we have a few listener episodes coming out soon on patreon. We have so much fun talking to our listeners about their spiritual awakenings and their gifts. Opening up their journeys are incredible. Our listener stories are just amazing you guys are amazing.

Frank:

When I was, when we were first like, oh, let's do listener stories, I was like, oh, we'll probably get some like pretty basic stuff. There's not been one basic thing. No, not not to dissuade we, the basics out there, from coming and talking to us.

Lauren:

You know it's funny. Everyone assumes that their story is basic, Everyone has assumed that their story is. I want to say I'm going to shout out Seth because his episode is coming out soon, and he was like I don't know. You know, maybe it's not that interesting and it was the guy has an incredible story, so worthy of its own full episode.

Lauren:

Yeah, so, anyway, if you want access to all of the goods, it's just $4 a month to join. And this is the part where I repeat that it's $4 per month and Frank says that's so cheap, so um, also, we got some coffees from natalie. Coffees from natalie, thank you.

Frank:

What's all the support about what's happening?

Lauren:

we've also gotten some like really nice comments on spotify, comments on spotify.

Frank:

Guys, gosh, you're really making us feel special like text messages and I wanted Comments on Spotify. Comments on Spotify. Guys Gosh, you're really making us feel special, like text messages.

Lauren:

I want to just remind you that we have this feature on our platforms. It says send us a text which we receive. We get it we receive and it says you got fan mail.

Frank:

Yeah.

Lauren:

And for some reason there's just not an option for us to reply.

Frank:

It's a one way radio.

Lauren:

You don't know who it's from. It just says your city. And you know I don't want to take away that option because I think it's really cool, it's fun. I just want to say you're not going to get a reply. You're not going to get a reply, unfortunately, because there's no option to do that.

Frank:

Yeah, so if you've sent us a text, we don't hate you. We're not ghosting you. I just don't know. I don't know what to do.

Lauren:

If you wrote us a text message, thank you, and we love you and we see it.

Frank:

And we see you we see you.

Lauren:

Okay, guys, I have a big announcement. We not me. I have a big announcement, not me. We Go ahead and take the credit. We have a big announcement. Are you ready? We now have a fundraising campaign going for our documentary.

Frank:

Up and running.

Lauren:

And it comes with rewards.

Frank:

Oh yeah, I forgot about that, yeah.

Lauren:

We're raising funds so that we can start working with the incredible Sarah Reeves and her team at Metaphysical U in Austin, texas. By the way, if you haven't heard our episode with Sarah, go listen to episode 12. Our fundraising goal is currently $15,000 so that we can pay crew cover travel equipment fees etc.

Frank:

Yes, that's not so cheap. Wait, can I say something, etc yes, that's not so cheap.

Lauren:

It's not, but that's why we we. We got a fundraise.

Frank:

It's worth it and honestly, this is a smaller budget than what we've worked with in the past, so I think we're doing okay here, yeah yeah, and also because we are sponsored by a 501c3 called Fractured Atlas.

Lauren:

any donation is tax deductible and the rewards start at just $10. You know, I'd like to. That is so cheap.

Frank:

That's a little bit more expensive than a Patreon, but still cheap. I want to give a shout out to our friend, adrian for telling us about Fractured Atlas, because that's a really cool thing, thank you, Adrian yeah. Adrian was the person we traveled around Duluth with. I don't remember what episode that was.

Lauren:

But it was our spooky Halloween episode. So if you look up Halloween special, if you heard that one, adrian is our kind of co-host, she's our, she's our adventurer in that, in that episode.

Frank:

Yeah.

Lauren:

We want to have her back on to just have a chat, have a spiritual chat.

Frank:

Yeah.

Lauren:

Because she is amazing. So the link for our fundraising campaign will be in the show notes, but you can also head over to clearvoyagingcom, slash support and click that top link to donate to our documentary and see more about it.

Frank:

No presh.

Lauren:

Donate to our documentary and see more about it. No presh Also. We already got a few donations because I announced it through threads and on our Patreon.

Frank:

We did.

Lauren:

We did so. Thank you to Wish Wish Wish, our first supporter, and also to Anonymous.

Frank:

Thanks, anonymous, thanks Anonymous. Wow, everyone's probably so sick of me screaming oh my god, I might have to cut some of that out.

Lauren:

This is a really hyped up intro.

Frank:

Yeah.

Lauren:

You know what that's okay.

Frank:

Sure.

Lauren:

Okay, those are all the updates. It was a lot. Thank you for sticking with me while I told you all of these things and thanked all of our pals.

Frank:

And thanks to me for being maybe the best one-man peanut gallery.

Lauren:

You're quite the hype man, yikes. Okay, frank, let's talk about it for a second.

Frank:

Here. Hold on to this selenite tower for a moment.

Lauren:

Before the episode, Frank grabbed a selenite crystal just to clear your energy.

Frank:

We've been told selenite is the vacuum filter of emotions.

Lauren:

So if you heard our last episode, episode 65, which was when a psychic reading doesn't resonate, then you'll know what we're referring to. If you didn't listen to that, it's just a 10 minute episode. It kind of gets you caught up a little bit without actually hearing the interview because, that's going into the trash can.

Lauren:

Yeah, so we had a lot of discussion. So we had a lot of discussion. Essentially, what happened was we had a guest who is a sort of a spiritual business coach and it was a big lesson. My initial I was following this person and I went to their videos and their posts and I kind of went back and forth on like, would this person be a good guest? Something told me no. So this is a huge lesson in following my intuition and listening. The first time when I hear that sacral no and the sacral no is something that we learned through human design but that something in your gut that says this isn't the right thing and something popped up that told me, oh, maybe it would be good, maybe we'd learn something about money, mindset or manifesting or something. But ultimately it ended up being an interview that made us afterwards feel really uncomfortable, really, really pissed off. Frank made me it like activated all of our shadows. So, uh, this was a huge.

Frank:

This was a huge lesson let me say, and that was so the lesson is not just a sacral, no, but also in. You know, we've always talked about on the show psychics who don't necessarily have your best intentions in mind, right, and how to spot them and recognize them. And then here we are, having a whole show about that and kind of falling victim to that. Very charismatic people exist and that's something to keep in mind. They can also be psychic.

Frank:

I'm yeah and and you know if you've heard the last episode sorry for going over this again, but I'm pretty sure that what happened was that our like shadow selves, which for a minute maybe, we talk about the shadow and but our, our, our shadow selves were red and then used against us right, um, particularly like in uh, lauren's inner child was brought up and then my sense of value and how it's, this entire last year, year and a half, has been tied to my sense of how I tie my personal value to my earning, what I earn, or like my work or whatever it's it's it's old shadow stuff.

Frank:

But then basically it was affirmed to me that, oh yeah, you should do that and you, you are not living into your, your what you should be doing in your life, and that is weaponizing that shit. And for me in particular, after we had a couple of rough days, what it's allowed me to do, once I got over the hump of like, oh my god, someone confirmed that the worst part of me really is the worst part of me and that I'm living wrong what it's made me do is kind of double down on betting on myself in in a very specific way, and we'll get into that later yeah, really quick, I just want to give oh sorry an outline of just what happened.

Lauren:

We brought this person on our show. We had a lot of just kind of basic back and forth questions how do you bring spirituality into growing wealth? How do you bring that into a boardroom or dealing with CEOs, how do you keep you know, how do you use your intuition, that kind of thing. And this person was like well, also, I'm psychic. So I just, you know, read the person and and I cut through the BS and all this stuff. Did you know that they were psychic before I cut through the bs and all this stuff?

Frank:

so did you know? Did you know that they were psychic before they came on the show? No yeah, we were just talking like an empowerment person as far as we knew I knew.

Lauren:

I knew there was like a blend of intuition and like spirituality yeah but but not like there's no claim to I'm psychic on their, any of their platforms, okay, so then that was the first like half an hour. And then at some point I said, okay, what you know, how would you give advice to someone with a limiting mindset, or something like that? Just kind of making a general, and Frank was like no, I get personal, you know, make it about, make it about you. Kind of making it general, and Frank was like no, I get personal, you know, make it about, make it about you. And I'm like okay, I have this idea to create a workshop. And I know that I'm feeling myself become a little bit smaller when I say that because I have a little debt, I struggle with self-doubt. And the immediate response was okay, well, let me ask you this what happens to your marriage when you step into who you truly want to be? And I was like just what, what I wasn't asking about, what do you mean?

Frank:

I was. I was staring at the interviewee just like, okay, where's this going? Yeah, where's this going yeah.

Lauren:

So when you're in this kind of position to be like how we are, we're open, we're vulnerable, we're willing to take advice and be flexible in like sure, you're going to like coach me for a second, but it just it got like really, it got really direct in the not so good way, just really fast, where I was like kind of sweating and well, I sweat every interview and then they said, like what happens?

Lauren:

You know what is the little girl in you most afraid of? That will happen with anybody that you love and, of course, like I don't think my husband's gonna leave me. But if you say, like what's the little girl in you the most afraid of? That is always going to be being left or being abandoned abandonment yeah that is. That is the thing that I'm like. Are you talking to, like the three-year-old in me?

Frank:

so literally in like the blink of an eye. It went from how should I think about my uh upcoming coaching uh project to your husband's gonna leave you, and our heads were spinning a little bit yeah and you know so what. What lauren is like talking about right now is, in particular, because of the nature of the show, we're always putting ourselves in a position of learning right.

Frank:

So we are allowing our interviewees to, like you know, tell us how it is, to a certain extent at least, from their perspective yeah we have, we, we like doing that because we are supposed to be here gathering information, right, but we haven't run into somebody who, who would take into that, who would take the advantage of that, that dynamic yeah, just to use an example or like a comparison, michelle Hollingbrooks was an incredible guest.

Lauren:

If you haven't heard part one and two of her interview, she's incredible.

Frank:

I don't even want to incur her name in this episode, because she's a saint, saint Michelle.

Lauren:

Truly and like we. I mean she did a healing, just a healing example, with us and she had me invite my inner child in front of me and imagine asking her to come join us in our family room and be with our family and be treated the way that, like she wants to be nurtured and all that stuff. So I was crying during that good but. But there's a challenge cry yes, like oh, yeah, I need to face this cry, and then there's upset cry yeah, then there's like I wasn't asking.

Lauren:

I was asking about doing a workshop, not about like if my husband's gonna like up and leave me, so really kind of just using that to their advantage and then focusing and honing in on Frank and how he needs to step into his masculine energy and this was one of those interviews One of those we haven't had one yet where I literally couldn't say anything right.

Frank:

Every time I said something or defended my standpoint and said I don't know if I like that in my own words, without being confrontational, it was like I was immediately shit on. Yeah, it was so weird.

Lauren:

Yeah.

Frank:

It was so weird because it was such a. It was such a weird confusing mix of some good advice and then like, like slamming me and. And then like, like slamming me and and then telling Lauren she needs to stop being so like minimizing herself, but at the same time, in kind of an aggressive way, that didn't feel good.

Lauren:

Yeah.

Frank:

And like it it it didn't. I knew that during the interview. As soon as we got off the interview, I said I hated that.

Lauren:

Literally Frank Frank's words were I hated that, that and I said I'm sure yeah and then, uh, you know, you just had to sit with that for a few minutes and be like how much of that was true so you know not to harp on this anymore, but really the takeaway was a big lesson in trusting trusting our instincts, our intuition, and not letting and acknowledging our shadows when they pop up, but saying like those aren't in control of me or those aren't necessarily who I am now or really, what was being presented to us is that our shadows are our true selves and that we are not in control of them whatsoever.

Lauren:

Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Frank:

And that's like a horrible thing to be told.

Lauren:

Yeah, someone who claims to be psychic, telling you that they know better and using their underdeveloped ability to kind of get a little bit of control over you, or or basically, say, oh yeah, well, now you should, I should coach you.

Frank:

And let's be clear about what we mean by underdeveloped. We don't mean not a good psychic, very psychic, very intuitive, hitting on good. What we mean by underdeveloped we don't mean not a good psychic, very psychic, very intuitive, hitting on good things. When we say underdeveloped, what we mean is that bedside and those ethics and how much of your own personal ego is brought into that reading, and it was clear that it was a ego-first reading.

Lauren:

Yeah.

Frank:

That person brought their worldview into this space and want to know what's crazy about it. I'm gonna say something right now. What? And it's not that controversial, especially these days? But billionaires should not exist. So this person is in our, is in my church and telling me that they are trying to encourage millionaires, that they could be billionaires, but they have limiting mindsets yeah and like how about if you just go suck a bag of trash for me? Okay?

Lauren:

like no, that should have been our first and yeah and like, like, like shaking over here, probably just from the, just from the comment of more money and someone making, someone making billions, and he's like, yeah, but we're creating a caste system now and yeah, and I was brought shouldn't people not have that much money? Because it's a problem it?

Frank:

was brought up, they used that against me, saying like, oh, you have an issue with money, and I used to hate money. People had money too. I'm like no, no, and when you know AOC said it best recently billions are not earned, they're taken, and I firmly believe that to be true.

Lauren:

Yeah.

Frank:

So yeah and and sorry if we're getting too political for you, but, um, legitimately, it's the mindset around that predatory capitalism and if you're in the boardroom these days with people who admire people in even larger boardrooms, like the expectation for predatory capitalism, is built into your, your, your organization, um, I mean, I can't speak for everybody. I'm sure there's something. Ben and jerry's pretty great, but you know, like, like, if you're, if you're wanting more money and you already have a lot of money, like you've got a problem, dude. Like you want to talk about shadows. If you're wanting more money and you already have a lot of money, you've got a problem, dude. You want to talk about shadows. If you're a CEO and you think you need more money after your multi-millions, you need to slow down. You have messed up. It's not about that. So to claim yourself to be like a spiritual guru in the boardrooms, telling people that they do need more money is absolutely unhinged, to be clear it's, you know, it's just not.

Lauren:

It's not really the kind of thing that we, that we uplift on this show. I mean and you know, and if you do, like that, then then then great, it's just like we have. We wanted something that aligns with our values and yeah, I want to give lauren.

Frank:

This is one of the situations where I want to make sure there is a division between lauren and I. These are the views of myself. I don't like predatory capitalism, and neither does lauren, but I'm the one that's a little more ragey about it, and that's fine. Yeah, okay yeah I don't, I don't want to drag you into my rage no, I'm ragey about it too.

Lauren:

All right, you're just louder about it.

Frank:

I get loud when it comes to the stuff.

Lauren:

Yeah that's okay it's fine, um, I was going to say one more thing, oh, and I just want to bring up the point that, like, when I say underdeveloped, I'm talking about someone who most likely didn't take classes on like psychic development, intuitive development and learning those really basic things about ethics.

Frank:

We did the clairvoyaging thing. We said how'd you get started? And yeah, there was no mention of that at all no it was. I've always been this way yeah and like scary okay.

Lauren:

So, yeah, real quick. You know, I had to deal with like my guilt of of. I think I have that rejection. Sensitivity, dysphoria or whatever it's called. It's kind of can go hand in hand with adhd and I think um the idea of being wrong or doing the wrong thing. I I'm so afraid of rejection that I just tried to make it all okay. I don't want to be responsible, I'm responsible for this guest. And then, ultimately, how this guest made you feel and how this guest brought us in like this friction, like turmoil. Do you actually feel this way? Because the psychic told me that you feel this way? That's just final for me. Final lesson intuition. You can just just just step into your mistake and it's okay.

Frank:

But we're never here. So here's the thing now, and this is where this is the. The guts of what I want to talk about on this episode is that we're not going to be able to filter everybody in the world, and I'm not talking about like on the show, I mean like in real life. Right, and this is for the listeners too. We're going to run into people who are going to try and sell you the psychic version of a timeshare, and if you are susceptible to that, like Lord and I, have once purchased a timeshare and then immediately took it back.

Lauren:

We had to send a letter via fax to say we rescind.

Frank:

We looked at each other and said what have we done? We're too emotion based, if you own a timeshare and you love it, then you're doing it correctly. But afterwards we were like wait, whoa, this is not. No, what are we doing? How did this happen? I think we can get sold. Yeah, I'm concerned about our ability to be sold.

Lauren:

I heard other people popping champagne. I was like it's time for us to celebrate.

Frank:

Frank, I really want them to pop the champagne for us.

Lauren:

We got to my mom's house and she's like you did what. You did not buy the timeshare.

Frank:

So listen, listen, it's not about. It's not about stupidity, it's about putting yourself in the, not even putting yourself in the situations. It's not your fault, it's not our fault, but it really did make lauren and I realized that in those moments we don't have a lot of emotional tools, especially in this environment where we're talking to a psychic right, someone that that we have, a we have a 65 episode history of trusting, yeah, people with with deep intuition. It puts us in a situation we are very vulnerable to what we're told. So. So what do we do if we find ourselves in that situation again? What tools do we have to identify when we are being effed with?

Lauren:

Your recommendation to me, which was really helpful, was to create my personal set of principles or standards, or what you call tenets, to remind myself of who I am and who I'm not.

Frank:

Yeah, If you are like a person like we are, who you know is very open-minded and willing to hear things out, is sometimes having to switch over to be in a defensive mode is uncomfortable and it feels confrontational and sometimes sometimes I let it, I get too emotional or I feel too terrible. Before I turn that switch, before I flip that switch into like defense mode, and writing some things out, some principles or some tenets, or you can call them non-negotiables, is a really good way to give yourself that trigger. Like oh, there's been a violation. I don't feel terrible yet, but there's been a clear violation.

Frank:

Like, let's, let's strike one kind of thing yeah and then it's like, okay, I might, you might know who you're dealing with. I created a set of tenets or non-negotiables for claire voyaging as an entity that we are going to be following moving forward, and I'll go over them in a little bit, but I did want to mention one thing. Um, cause we've talked about like shadow self and all that stuff.

Lauren:

Yeah.

Frank:

And, if I know, we've mentioned it in the past, but I did a little bit of research just so I can talk about it more clearly and I want to mention what that is. You know, in in your life, when you're growing up or going through your you know, um, uh, formative years, there are times when either your environment or your own psyche makes it so that this is all. This is a Jungian concept, I believe he coined shadow your, your environment, or your or your psyche, your own psyche has pushed certain aspects or elements of yourself into your subconscious. I'm going to screw this up, but it's fine, just hear me out, you're doing a great job. Simple version. So what it is is you have these elements that you're trying to repress right Of yourself, when really you're supposed to acknowledge those things that you've been told aren't right or that you've told yourself aren't right, and then accept them to a certain extent and reintegrate them in a way that is not, that is non-destructive, right? So, for example, um, you could say so, I I for a long time was like, oh, like I'll never get anywhere with creativity, even though I saw the opposite all around me.

Frank:

People were getting places, like being in the arts and stuff, right and and like earning a living, but for some reason I told myself that that's not, that's not going to work for me, right? So I put that on the back burner and I was living a duality. I was living a dual lifestyle where I had a very corporate job that I hated during the day, as you all freaking know I have said this way too much and then at night I was an artist by night, and I would let my freak flag fly Right. And at some point, at some point in the last few years, that became too hard to manage and it was because literally I was doing, I was working on my shadow self artistry in the shadows, like at nighttime, like after hours, right?

Lauren:

So wait? Is the shadow in this case, your belief that you'll never do anything bigger with your creativity.

Frank:

It would have been the belief, saying that this will never get, this will never provide me with anything that I or like that fear of stepping out into that version of yourself. Whatever I suppressed. So what I suppressed was the belief that I could ever make money doing art.

Lauren:

Right, okay. So, that's considered a shadow. Well yeah, sure, okay.

Frank:

Yeah, I made a belief system. What I did was I suppressed my true, authentic self, which is as an artist.

Lauren:

Right.

Frank:

And I took on the mantle of. I have a corporate job, I am a corporate worker, I'm a cog in the machine I have. I have yeah. What are the cubicles?

Lauren:

What are those called?

Frank:

Yeah, cubicles, I let it go so and that becomes a lot right, and? And the concept of the, the like shadow work is that you are working to reintegrate, right. So in my case now I'm like, well, hold on, if I all the the hard work and all the like work ethic and stuff that I brought into just trying to make my fake mantle of a corporate worker work for me, like I can take all those lessons and and bring it back to my suppressed artist self and pull that up again and let reintegrate Right and I can be excited about it Like I am now. Here we are, I'm excited, I love it hey, yeah.

Frank:

And not to say it's an easy transition or anything, but that's what the concept is. So if you have somebody who's tapped into your those repressed parts of you, things that people told you you can't be or can't do, or those worst fears of you that you've also repressed and you're denying, I deny that right, even though it might be like a little bit true or there might be some truth to it, or maybe it was true 10, 20 years ago, whatever that might be. So if someone could see that your worst sense of yourself and then use, use it against you, literally weaponize your own shadow against you, oof, that is a, that is a. That is a slithery snake, that is a toxic individual yeah, I, I want to.

Lauren:

I want to say too, because we're talking about the shadow, um, the it's. I don't think it's a coincidence that this interview that we had, that brought up all of our shit, came during eclipse season, like I mean high emotions, full moon, all that stuff which I don't know why I don't have the scientific. I don't think I don't know what the scientific explanation is for eclipses bringing up all of your shadow self and your traumas and dealing with your fears and all this stuff.

Frank:

But I don't know.

Lauren:

It's just interesting that this came at that exact week.

Frank:

It is. I mean, we've been flipping through tiktok and everyone's like, oh yeah, it's, it's, it's retrograde and oh yeah, retrograde and eclipse season, and like we're going to be working with your shadows and things are going to come up and you're going to feel uncomfortable I made a joke video on tiktok about it, but it's true it is true, it's very. I mean whatever, regardless of if you subscribe to that stuff or not yeah it happened.

Frank:

It happened here, yeah, which is, you know, it's funny. It's funny if you want like a very quick, loose scientific explanation for like why, like, the lunar shit affects you. I I did see someone today who was like, who said, um, she was like our bodies are made of like 80% water. Right, you see what the balloon, the moon, does to the tides, right, why would you not have things come up to? So I wanted to talk about discernment, like I was saying earlier, like when you're in a situation like this where you are open-minded but you like don't have any evidence you know we're talking about spiritual stuff and like being open to this stuff, right, like we're not always asking for direct evidence, but what are you being taken advantage of? And side note, another thing that happened this weekend, which is very funny. I don't know how active you guys are on tiktok, but like the um yeah like alien disclosure stuff is just going off right.

Frank:

Everyone's been talking about the like uh uips and drones and all that stuff lately, but there was a certain individual I won't name names, I don't think it's her fault but there was a certain individual flying around tiktok who was saying that this weekend was the big weekend where where the like galactic people federation I don't know if it was the federation. I don't know what I think she did say federation, okay, well, galactic people Federation.

Lauren:

I don't know if it was the Federation. I don't know what I think she did say.

Frank:

Federation. Okay, well, galactic folks were going to be showing themselves literally as she was saying Via motherships Via motherships the size of cities, visible to everyone, not just people, like in tune with it. And yeah so, lauren, what'd you think when the aliens showed up? That was pretty cool, right. Um, yeah so, lauren, what'd you think when the aliens showed up?

Lauren:

that was pretty cool. Right frank has gotten really into this side of of tiktok and the side of I think fascinated is. Fascinated is the correct term we, I can't you know, you guys, we did go outside and look around and we looked at the sky each night and we said what the hell we looked up and we said hey, nothing's happening. You said you were coming so let's talk about.

Lauren:

I want to talk about discernment for a quick second, all right frank's like okay if nothing happens this weekend, which I'm sure it probably won't, but when nothing happens this weekend I'm gonna go on an unfollow quest oh yeah, it's already it's begun. Yes, the unfollowing has begun.

Frank:

Yeah, now it's too much sometimes well, all I wanted to say was that also the person that said that the motherships were coming, she did. She was like. She was like. What did she say? She said that there was not any miscommunication, but that there were. Someone changed their mind and that she's also susceptible to how the aliens will sometimes lie for certain purposes. And the thing I said to Lauren was wait a minute. We're asking for help from people who lie, and what happened to like best and what your highest good.

Frank:

Highest and best or whatever right. What happened to? Like you're going to lie to me just for a joke. So I was like highest, good, highest and best, or whatever Right. Well, having a light, oh, you're gonna lie to me just for a joke.

Frank:

So I was like, oh man those aliens are tricksters, so my whole thing was this Like there's a chance that, like you know that that's all real, but at what point are we just putting our blind faith into some, like you know, something that we have no evidential proof of? And I don't want us, especially on the show, in any kind of way to recreate any kind of. A large part of the show is getting away from traditional religious ideologies. Which traditional religious ideologies put something between you and your ability to expand your own faith Right?

Lauren:

Yeah.

Frank:

You need a church, you need a priest and, in this case, what I need a channeler like why tell me what the aliens are saying? And the aliens know best. Why is there always someone in the middle?

Lauren:

Yeah.

Frank:

So let's. This is discernment. This is where discernment comes in and like really this, where discernment comes in and and like really this is based on if you're in, if we find ourselves in a situation where we are being too open. I'd love to hear stories. I want to hear more about everyone's religious faiths and their, their spirituality. I don't necessarily need to subscribe to it, but where do we come in as individuals? I'm talking about lauren and I as hosts and you as listeners, and this is when I came up with the clairvoyaging tenants that are non negotiables for how we are moving forward, and I'd like to read them real quick to you.

Lauren:

Yeah, and love to hear it.

Frank:

Lauren, I'm going to read what I wrote, and then I'm probably gonna put these on our website too.

Lauren:

Great.

Frank:

And then I'd like you to comment.

Lauren:

Okay.

Frank:

Or we can discuss some talking points, comment, okay, or we can discuss some talking points, right, okay, please, please, tell me, tell, tell us. So. The first, the first tenet is sovereignty over obedience, and what I mean by that is do not let anybody tell you who you are.

Frank:

You are the master of your own journey yeah, um and this obviously plays back comes back to, like, our interview we had to throw away, right, someone was telling us, yeah, who we were, and claimed to know us better than we knew ourselves. Even if someone does have the ability to read into your the worst, darkest version of yourself, right, right, you still have free will. If you don't want that, you don't have to be it in any kind of way.

Lauren:

Yeah, you know, speaking of sovereignty and that interview, the most empowering thing was realizing the choice that we could make, which was we're not publishing that, and the minute that we could make, which was we're not publishing that, and the minute that was the option. It was the clearest option and it was also the most freeing because it reminded me this is our show, like you know, there is something really empowering about what are our values. It doesn't include this, so this is not going to be included. And I'm such a people pleaser that my, my fear was like, oh, they're gonna be upset or they're maybe ask us at some point, like what happened to that episode? Sorry, it didn't fit, it didn't align with our principles or or the messaging that we're trying to have with our show yeah, well, we didn't have our principles laid out yet, because we've been yeah, we have.

Lauren:

We had a loose idea of like, does this feel right or not?

Frank:

right, yeah, of course, yeah, yeah, but now, in the moment, we'll know yeah number two number two number. Empowerment over dependency Very similar but a little different, and that reads as follows Spiritual wisdom comes from within. Find the right balance between external validation and self-reliance.

Lauren:

Yeah.

Frank:

We don't want to be in a situation where we constantly need affirmation of our own truths but at the same time we do like some validation, and you gotta choose whatever works for you. But if you find yourself relinquishing your own self-reliance in terms of like you need someone else to externally validate what you are going through, then you're probably not doing it, right, right it's true.

Lauren:

there is a point where I mean as spiritual people you, you, our listeners are most likely on a spiritual journey yourselves and, depending on where you are, you might not necessarily need to go to psychic or medium readings, and that's not to say like don't do it anymore. However, you might not feel that pull because so much of the intuition is already within you and the answers are already within you. I know that there comes a point where it's like when you're kind of just floundering and you're like I really want someone to tell me how I feel, or validate how I feel, or read me, because I don't know what's going on. Then, once you start doing those deep dives, you don't require that as much. Like maybe there's like you know you're using divination or you're kind of like you're using meditation or whatever. That's all seeking validation from yourself, your higher self or your spirit guides. Does that make sense?

Frank:

Kind of. But even if you were like, even if you're completely leaning on div because you can abuse divination right.

Lauren:

Yeah.

Frank:

You've got to find the balance. So I pull tarot cards all the time, as you know, because I pull them for you too. But what the tarot card does is it leads to a deep discussion. I'm not literally reading the tarot descriptions and saying, oh okay, cool, and then basing my life off of that and saying, oh okay, cool, and then basing my life off of that. It's like a.

Frank:

Kickstarter to a conversation that leads to something that I may be not addressing or something that I hadn't thought of, and it is always amazing as long as you bring your own intuitive knowledge into it, and that's where but if someone is just straight up telling you how it is, then you are in for a world of hurt.

Lauren:

And you're depending on what they say as opposed to what you feel.

Frank:

Yeah, maybe we caught the last interviewee on a bad day, but if that was a good day, then I feel really bad for that person's clients, because they are in a in a like a high risk situation where not only are they handing over their own personal power, they're also at risk of being abused. To be honest, yeah. So anyway.

Lauren:

Manipulated at the very least, which brings us to number three. Go on.

Frank:

Do no harm. Do no harm. What do we mean by that? Go on, do no harm, do no harm. What do we mean by that? So all of us, all of our journeys, look different and deserve respect. So when we are engaged in a discussion about spirituality, it's important for us to meet people where they are and encourage their own growth at their own pace, and not to tell them what's right or tell them what's wrong, but to push them along in a healthy, encouraging kind of way. Right, you don't want to break people down? Yeah, so I always feel, I feel bad about this. I might've talked about this in one of our earlier episodes, but you know, when I was younger and I was I personally was trying to work my way out of the Catholic church, which is not a comfortable, it's not a comfortable thing to do. Ask anyone who's done it.

Lauren:

Yeah.

Frank:

But I was also kind of like raging against my, my parents, because they were so steeped in it, right, and and I got to a point once I started doing my own growth and and I wasn't I stopped projecting onto them what I wanted. I'm going to say that again I stopped projecting onto them what I wanted for myself. Then I was like, oh shit, like that's how they connect, right, yeah, it's what they're comfortable with and it's what brings them this deep sense of spirituality and peace. Who the hell am I to take that away from them? Yeah, regardless if I agree with it or not not, my parents are way I'd say. My parents have done a lot of work and they're way more open-minded too, but they still have that like foundation of the, the faith that they grew up with, and there's nothing wrong with that yeah, in fact, there's, might be even some things good with it. But they also my parents also display discernment in where they are, like they have. They pick and choose what works for them yeah they integrate it.

Frank:

And then there are some things that they've let go of. The catholic church makes it easy to let some things go because they keep blowing it. That's all I'll say. But but you know, that's. That's that discernment yeah um, and that's also like releasing that gatekeeping that the church and tradition, traditional churches can do, but also the gatekeeping that weaponized psychics can do to you. You need them. No, no, any comments on that yeah, I mean the, the.

Lauren:

We might have a listener here or there that has fallen victim to the. You have a curse. I am the only person who can remove it, or I can do a cleansing and it's only $700. Or the people who, like I kept seeing on Reddit, there's like stories of people who are like I just went to a psychic and they told me that my husband is going to die in the next year and there's nothing I can do about it and like just really damaging things, that like now they can't sleep at night and all this stuff. So that is so harmful.

Frank:

So now, obviously we will never have a guest like that, but you know, former guest in front of the show, michael mayo, has talked about how, like, there are certain things that don't come through in spirit and they're called the four d's oh yeah, it's.

Frank:

Oh man, why did I put myself in a situation where I have to remember them death, destruction, divorce and donald trump? I can't remember what the fourth one was, but like some things are not supposed to come as far as mediumship goes, some things are not supposed to come through like that, right yeah um, spirit's never gonna give you your when by spirit I mean, like your ancestors, your spirit guides they're not going to give you devastating news, and also, with the future, somewhat unwritten, that's just not, nothing's for sure yeah like we've had psychic readings where they hit on things that are true and the timing's always off.

Frank:

I always talk about how the joke of our existence is time and how time moves. The timing is going to be off.

Lauren:

Yeah.

Frank:

So when someone oh your husband's going to die, no shit, Everyone dies man. But like you're, you're telling me, next year, suck a bag of trash.

Lauren:

Oh no, it's a new Frank catchphrase. That is not one that I want to take off. I'm putting it on your headstone. Oh okay, I'm fine with it. His favorite quote suck a bag of trash and you know what I gotta say?

Frank:

something suck a bag of trash. Brings us to tenet number four. Okay, the last tenet is take no shit, so do no harm. Take no shit, so do no harm, take no shit. You've heard the phrase.

Lauren:

Okay.

Frank:

Okay, take no shit. Spiritual growth can present challenges, but it's never aggressive. Okay, trust your sacral response, the thing we were talking about earlier, that gut feeling that tells you whether or not something is right for you. If someone is challenging you in a way that feels negative or depleting depleting of your own energy they are projecting onto you. Do not accept it. And see tenant number one, which is sovereignty over obedience. You know what? Maybe number five is suck a bag of trash.

Lauren:

Yeah, that's the unofficial number five. The show's changed man our last guest really changed us.

Frank:

But like, legitimately, this the entire thing breaks down to, that is that, like there's a way to guard your growth while also not being susceptible to, um, you know, people's shitty takes, and I think I think lauren and I just figured out how to, how to work that out, and I'm hoping that if you found yourself in a position where you're also being victimized yeah, victimized by people with, uh, supposed intuitive abilities, that that's, that's how to go about it is no, no one to cut it off and no one to say they're full of shit yeah and growth mindset.

Frank:

While being positive, I'm saying thing, it doesn't even have to be intuitive, psychic, anything like that. I mean, look at we talked about. We briefly mentioned what was it called. You know those like group think uh workshops where you're supposed to go there and like work on yourself but then they end up yelling at you and you feel horrible about yourself. Landmine, landmine, landmark landmark yeah, stuff like that.

Frank:

I don't know how popular that is anymore, but like I don't know, yeah, yeah like being put into in a position where you are super uncomfortable and is is not something that you have to do to grow. You don't have to be uncomfortable yeah like, like publicly humiliated to grow.

Frank:

You don't have to be humiliated to grow. You might be humiliated by like what you've thought about yourself in the past, but it doesn't have to be like a shaming and, in fact, in fact, the best way to go about all of this is without shame, cause that shame is going to like drive you into a place you don't want to go to, and shame essentially creates more shadows for you to work through down the line. You're just kicking the rock down the road.

Lauren:

Yeah, there were exercises that sounded like deeply devastating and, I'm sure, healing. But to like access your are you talking about landmines?

Frank:

Yeah, okay.

Lauren:

Landmine to access your darkest memories in in a group setting and maybe even be pushed to talk about them in front of other people. I don't think so. That's not for me.

Frank:

No no.

Lauren:

I was like no, I'm not doing that.

Frank:

That's aggressive.

Lauren:

Yeah.

Frank:

It's ego, it's maybe someone was treated that way and they are just like you know, hazing other people into doing the same thing. If you feel hazed, don't do it, okay. So one more time. Let me just go over them. Just the headlines here. Number one sovereignty over obedience. Number two empowerment over dependency. Number three do no harm. Four take no shit.

Lauren:

And five suck a bag of trash that one's the silent, the silent one, yeah, so dumb, uh, you know, I think these will. These will help us recognize what's going on, if there's, if something's going astray oh yeah, no, wouldn't.

Frank:

We're never going sideways again.

Lauren:

Yeah so I feel like that sums up our, our big lessons. This is, you know, we like to call these kind of episodes milestones, and I think this, this is a pretty important milestone for us.

Frank:

It is a milestone. It might not be as fun as the other ones.

Lauren:

But that's part of it. I just realized this is episode number 66.

Frank:

Maybe that's not an accident. New levels, new devils. I've said it before, I'll say it again oh, is that a saying? Yeah, if it's not, I've got a new t-shirt to make.

Lauren:

I'm putting number 66 as an angel number is it, it can be can it be? Yeah or new it new new angles, new angels? No, yeah no, those are the same word no new angles, new angels, the e and the l, the dyslexics are not big fans right now.

Frank:

Someone's gonna say new angles, new angles.

Lauren:

They must work in construction no, I'm just keeping it high vibes, sure, okay, you guys, we love you.

Frank:

Maybe some of the stuff we've talked about is old news to you. You've done this, you've done the work, but this is a new little bit. You'd think, after 40-something years of life, that we'd be better at handling the aggressive sales types.

Lauren:

and here we are when you're not expecting it on your own podcast. You're just not really ready for it. So now we're prepared.

Frank:

Yeah.

Lauren:

This is our house and I must defend it.

Frank:

Oh, wow Home.

Lauren:

Alone Anyone.

Frank:

Everyone.

Lauren:

It's not the season for it, but it's always.

Frank:

It's always the season for Home Alone.

Lauren:

Also, I just want to say thank you. There were several people who reached out after listening to that little short episode that we had. Just thank you, because it was tough. So thank you for saying anything that you said to us. It was really sweet.

Frank:

Thank you for your support, guys. We really appreciate it. Thank you so much Love you.

Lauren:

Love you hearts and it was really sweet. Thank you for your support, guys. We really appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Frank:

Love you, Love you Hearts and stars. Peace Bye. Thank you for listening. Visit clairevoyagingcom for merchandise or to access free resources to help you on your spiritual journey. Subscribe to our Patreon for more content or join for free to chat with us. Claire Voyaging is a fiscally sponsored project of Fractured Atlas, a 501c3 charity. Make a tax-deductible donation to support our mission to foster understanding, respect and curiosity for diverse spiritual belief systems. Clairvoyaging is a production of Wayfeather Media.

People on this episode

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Frank A. Leon

Co-host
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Lauren Leon

Co-host

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