Clairvoyaging
Normalize Your Spiritual Journey!
After a close family member experienced an undeniably psychic event that shocked believers and skeptics alike, Lauren and Frank (an open-minded but naturally skeptical married couple from the suburbs of California) decided that it was time to learn more about things that can't be easily explained.
Lauren and Frank Leon interview experts about the esoteric sciences. Through spiritual growth and trauma healing, they attempt to enhance their intuition and unlock their psychic abilities. They'll ask the stupid questions you've always wanted the answers to.
Clairvoyaging offers a glimpse into the couple's exploration of diverse esoteric subjects, with warmth, humor, and genuine curiosity, Lauren and Frank navigate these intricate domains, inviting experts and practitioners to share their insights, experiences, and wisdom.
Each episode explores the expertise of their guest. Topics include the vast spectrum of psychic abilities, mediumship, energy healing, divination, tarot, spirit communication, astral projection, remote viewing, auras, past lives, dream interpretation, intuitive awakening, spiritual empowerment, and channeling messages from guides and higher consciousness.
Whether you're a seasoned esoteric enthusiast or a newcomer to these mystical arts, this podcast encourages reflection and self-exploration, inspiring a deeper connection with the mystical aspects of life, and how to integrate open-mindedness with the struggle of adulting in everyday American life.
Clairvoyaging is your gateway to the extraordinary.
Visit www.clairvoyaging.com merchandise or to access free resources to help you on your spiritual journey.
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Clairvoyaging is a production of Wayfeather Media.
Clairvoyaging
075: Conversations with a Spiritual Trailblazer // with Elaine Ireland // Part 1
Psychic medium and tarot master Elaine Ireland has spent over sixty years walking the intuitive path, beginning in rural Texas where spiritual sensitivity was simply a way of life. Born in 1944, her gifts were nurtured early by grandparents attuned to nature and subtle energies.
In this powerful conversation, Elaine reflects on her first reading at 17, the evolution of her career, and the deep ethics that have shaped her work. She speaks to the sacred exchange of energy in readings, sharing why sometimes asking for non-monetary "payment" helps preserve integrity and balance. Elaine’s wisdom extends into the realm of ancestral trauma and spiritual sovereignty, offering empowering insight into how fear—when met with love—can become our greatest teacher.
With warmth, wit, and the clarity of someone who’s seen it all, Elaine paints a vivid portrait of how the intuitive arts have changed over the decades.
To learn more about Elaine or to work with her:
Visit: www.elaineirelandtarotmaster.com
Clairvoyaging is now a fiscally sponsored project of Fractured Atlas, a 501(c)(3) charity, so any donations are now tax deductible. If you’d like to support our projects that aim to foster understanding for diverse spiritual belief systems, visit www.clairvoyaging.com/support.
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Hello soul babies, trying to make sense of this three-dimensional construct, In this episode, Frank and I talked to the incredible Elaine Ireland, a psychic medium, tarot reader and mentor for so many in the spiritual community. This is part one of our conversation because Elaine has a rich and fascinating life and backstory. I'm Lauren Leon.
Frank:And I'm a menace to society.
Lauren:Oh wow. We are a married couple learning how to develop our own intuition, and this is episode 75 of Claire Voyaging. Wayfeather Media presents claire voyaging what's going on? Hello everybody out there in the digital world.
Frank:In the sea voyaging.
Lauren:Voyaging.
Frank:Clarely.
Lauren:Voyaging through the Clares Hello.
Frank:Have we helped you God? I hope so.
Lauren:Or you're just like waiting for the help to come, yeah.
Frank:Any day. Now they're going to be like, oh, we're all psychic now and we're like, yeah, I had three pickles for lunch yesterday. What? And that's our podcast now. True story.
Lauren:Pickle talk with Frank.
Frank:Yeah, this is my new show.
Lauren:Oh my God. Hey, I have to say thank you to some people for donating to our documentary campaign. No, really, yeah, they did it. Kevin, kevin, rachel.
Frank:R-r-r-r-Rachel.
Lauren:Anonymous Anonymous. Thank you, guys.
Frank:I always love a good anonymous.
Lauren:Yes, thank you so much for donating to our documentary fundraising campaign. We have less than a month to go and we are so grateful for donating to our documentary fundraising campaign. We have less than a month to go and we are so grateful for your support. Every little drop helps. Times are tough, but we appreciate your support times are weird this.
Lauren:Yeah, it really truly is. But I feel like this documentary is, um, I feel like this documentary is going to be helpful for people kind of venturing into this community. So you know, we got to give it a go. And if you'd like to contribute, go to. And if you'd like to contribute, go to and click on the link for the 501c3. It's tax deductible. Get some rewards, get a shout out, do the thing.
Frank:Get it.
Lauren:And thank you.
Frank:Wake up and get it Rise and grind. Rise and grind To our podcast and documentary.
Lauren:And let's talk pickles.
Frank:Pickle talk, episode one.
Lauren:Are you a sweet, a sweet, what are they called?
Frank:oh my god, it's gonna kill me there's only two things that we need dill it's dill, dill, pickle, dill, pickle spears, or I'll make an exception for the uh, the caper camp, as we call it bread and butter.
Lauren:That's what I was thinking, that's nasty bread and butter.
Frank:That's what I was thinking of.
Lauren:Yeah, it's nasty Bread and butter pickles.
Frank:I'm sorry if you like that, but.
Lauren:Those are just kind of weird.
Frank:If you like the bread and butter pickles, I need you to either write in to me right now and tell me why, or stop listening.
Lauren:You're going to get some hate mail, you know I hope they come at you. Direct your emails to Frank. Personalize at you. Direct your emails to Frank. Personalize them to Frank and tell them how much you love bread and butter pickles.
Frank:I will dance to your hatred. Give it to me.
Lauren:I've made it clear what is your allegiance. Okay, guys, elaine Ireland, can I just say she's an incredible person.
Elaine:Yeah.
Lauren:This was a. This was probably our longest conversation ever and we had to split it into two parts because she is full of stories. Like we bring up a topic and she's got story, story, story like everything.
Frank:So she's seen some things, yeah, and she shared some things, and it's just really cool. So I mean, the format of a conversation is pretty casual, but we start early on when when she was well, I don't want to spoil anything, but when she was living abroad and coming back to a segregated america as a sensitive person.
Lauren:Holy cannoli elaine is in her 80s, so like she's amazing. We heard about her from Sarah Reeves.
Frank:I think didn't she train Sarah Reeves yeah.
Lauren:Sarah was like I need some development. So she went to Elaine and that's why we were like, well, now we got to talk to Elaine, we got to hear about her story, yeah, so, without further ado, please enjoy Elaine Ireland.
Frank:Here it comes, let the beat drop.
Lauren:Elaine, we're so happy to have you here. On Claire Voyaging, this is going to be an awesome conversation. I just know it.
Elaine:This is fun the lights are flickering. The lights are flickering in my house.
Lauren:Oh, all right, it's happening already. They're ready to go. All right, she's got the power we love. I was telling you I know you've got some good stories. We love a good backstory, so how did you get into doing this work that you've been doing for a long time now? Can you tell us about that?
Elaine:I cheated. I burst myself into a family that did it.
Lauren:Okay, all right.
Elaine:So I can honestly say I grew up in a household that was aware. Now they did not do readings at home, but the psychic ability was there and so long ago country people were very, very in tune and still are, I'm sure, but in a different way with animals, their neighbors, you know that sort of thing. My grandparents owned a lot of property and businesses in a small town called Pendleton, texas, which is still there, but barely. But when they were alive the town was a thriving one street town, but thriving, I mean. There was even a barbershop and a leather person and my grandfather had a huge store and they sold things up front. He sold what he called his saddlery stuff in the back.
Elaine:But everybody was in tune with everybody. You know my grandmother, when I was just a kid, was in tune with everybody. You know my grandmother when I was just a kid, my grandmother knew when her best friend was in trouble and I was. I really was a kid. We were military but we were in between assignments. So I was out at granny's and she grabbed me out of bed real quick and she said where we were going and literally, instead of taking the car, we jumped on the back of a horse, which was very common, you know, in that area. I'm talking country here.
Elaine:And we galloped about a half a mile down the road and got to her best friend's back door and, sure enough, she was laying on the floor. She'd had a heart attack.
Elaine:Oh my gosh, oh my gosh.
Elaine:They just had this ability, this connection. They listened to nature. You know you talk about typical tree huggers. That was it.
Elaine:Yeah.
Elaine:They planted by the moon, they planted by the date, they planted by. You know, their arthritis told them when it was going to rain. I mean they listened to everything and I guess I chose that family because I knew that eventually that would change culturally but my family would not change.
Elaine:Yeah, wow.
Elaine:And that was a big. Yeah, wow, and that was a big. That was a big thing. Now, add the fact that my mother married a military man who took us to Europe. I was born in 44, right after the war ending, kind of thing. So I was like five-ish, first grade I spent about three months in El Paso, texas, while we were waiting for his final orders. Then we went to Italy because he was Italian, spoke fluently. He was one of the last, one of 16 children and grew up with Italian. So he was chosen to go to Italy for a particular assignment, which was to rebuild two churches in Livorno, italy. I was dumped right in the middle of gypsy world.
Elaine:Oh man yeah.
Frank:Right, this is already so interesting because I literally so I don't mean to interrupt, but I just wanted to say, like I talked to my parents this morning and I was like, oh yeah, we're interviewing Elaine Ireland and she, like you know, trained Sarah Ree morning. And I was like, oh yeah, we're interviewing elaine ireland and and like she, like you know, trained sarah reeves and she, like, is very intuitive, like, and I was like I've never met you but I I told my dad I'm like she's, she gives kind of like gypsy vibes a little bit. That's how I described you.
Lauren:Oh my gosh, that's so funny yeah I love it I love it before you even talk to her. Yeah, and, and we were we were love it, I love it.
Elaine:You would tune it in before you even talked to her. And we were in Italy when they were rebuilding because of the war. Yeah, and everybody was looking for answers and, of course, when you're young, you learn the language, any language, quicker. The younger the better. So to speak.
Elaine:So I did. I picked up and we didn't have a base. There was no base. The government literally operated out of what had been a five star restaurant. So we walked everywhere. I mean there was. People were living across the street in a bombed out building and had reopened these huge tarps, that was their wall, their floor was marble and they were living.
Elaine:That's how people lived there. I mean, it was just. I'd wake up to all of the bells on the bicycles, the people going to work. In the morning my mom took the neatest picture of what looked like a parade of bicycles going to work and they'd stop at these little shops and buy loaves of bread or cheese. It was their lunch. That's how they survived. People were living on the streets. I mean, that was it.
Elaine:We were there for a long time, came back here for not eight months. Went to Germany. Now talk about a different environment. Germany didn't like Americans, so kids could not wander around like we could in Italy, which I thought was interesting, even as a kid.
Elaine:Yeah.
Elaine:MPs were everywhere. If we missed the bus, we could take off and walk to school, but an MP would likely come along and pick us up and put as many of us as he could get in his Jeepy thing. So it was hanging off the back and we could go to Frankfurt. We were like less than an hour to Frankfurt by train for 25 cents. Well, mps were assigned to be on the train to watch the Americans on the train, and especially kids, and they'd see us come on and we'd see the MPs going. But we went to the big base in Frankfurt.
Elaine:We had a little base in Hanau. So we went to a big base and we could go to big movies and that sort of thing as a group. But there again I was with a culture of openness and my mother could make friends with anybody. She was just. That was just my mom. She never met a stranger. And again, the gypsies would come knocking on the door and offer readings and that sort of thing and mother would either give them money or she I was out growing clothes very quickly She'd give them something that I could no longer wear, you know, and they were most grateful and I would come home more than once. I came home and here was a gypsy lady or two sitting just having coffee with mom, not necessarily doing readings, just she'd found her people.
Elaine:Yeah, that's funny.
Elaine:That was basically it. They found her. So I grew up with that openness and yet I was safe there. Mother was safe in Europe at that time. Now we were military in Europe at that time, Now we were military. So we had to be careful about how outspoken particularly mother and her personality was one of the doors always open. I've got enough food for 50 people. Come on in. You know, she was the entertainer, she was, that was just mom and but she still had to reel it back a little bit because of my stepdad's career. So we had to be careful. And then when I came back to the United States, when I was 12, we still had segregation. Well, overseas there was no segregation among kids.
Elaine:We only had one building and there was one church.
Elaine:That was it. Among kids, we only had one building and there was one church. That was it. So when we came back, mom and I had this talk. She said it's going to seem strange in the United States now because you're not going to be able to dance with the black boys, you're not going to be able to be friends with the black girls. You know, you're not, not, not, not, not, not.
Lauren:Oh my gosh Wow.
Elaine:Well, we had what segregation. When I was in the 11th grade here in the States, and during that time I went to an all white school we had the black school. We had South Austin. South Austin was a mix of Latin American and white kids, but in the school halls there was still a separation they didn't date the opposite sex.
Elaine:Yeah.
Elaine:Whites, didn't you know that? You had your proms and everybody was nice, but it was still separated. So I was a miserable teenager in some ways, because that was not how I grew up. I grew up with an open mind. We could talk about anything, so I ran around with the theater kids yeah.
Lauren:That's where you're safe. You're all weird.
Elaine:You're all weird.
Lauren:Exactly, you're very welcome.
Elaine:And I had to be. I know this is going to sound awful to y'all, but I had to be careful about taking tests Because I was a terrible mathematician but yet I could make 100 on my tests. So teachers were saying in fact I had a teacher walk me. He called me up to his desk when I handed him my paper and I had seen him when I was taking my test. He was doing this. I was going what is he doing? And then he'd do this. He was trying to measure the distance between the papers to make sure nobody cheated Right. So when he looked at my paper he could tell it was a three-page test and he could see that I had gotten these things right. And he said he said, elaine, there is no way you didn't cheat oh no well, I was getting the answers yeah and I've always been a backward formula person.
Elaine:Give me the answer and I can work it backwards.
Elaine:Uh-huh.
Elaine:Right, so I even had to not make a couple of good grades, oh my gosh. Stay out of trouble because I wasn't cheating. Yeah, I had the basics for what I needed. And if I was taking a multiple choice, oh, that was easy.
Lauren:You just knew what the answer was yeah.
Elaine:So, and there was one other girl in school and I and I won't mention her name, but I will say that she went on to become a nationally known photographer and she worked for the state of Hawaii as on their official photography team for advertisement. She was a fabulous nurse. I mean, she really, really, when it was so hard for us women to be successful, she went on to be very successful and she was very psychic and very she was the same way.
Elaine:She had polio when she was a kid. She could miss two months of school and still ace everything.
Elaine:Whoa.
Elaine:Well, she was another one that would get it.
Frank:Can I Boy? I could have used that.
Elaine:I'm still not a mathematician, I'm just not yeah same.
Elaine:Me neither.
Lauren:We're the writer types like math at a too much yeah, I'm, I'm more the creative side.
Elaine:Yeah, what you were gonna ask something, say something oh no, that was it.
Frank:I really, I really math hurt me when I was in school. I'll just leave it at that.
Elaine:It hurt me too, but I let it hurt me at times to get out of trouble.
Elaine:Yeah, oh, that's so funny yeah.
Elaine:We had about okay, I'm not going to say names out loud, but two, three, four, five, five of us that were known throughout the whole school to be weird Really, and one of the guys was how do I say this? He was. He could not hide the fact that he was gay, and gay was not a good thing.
Elaine:Right.
Elaine:In today's world, he would be wearing red satin high heels and tights to school.
Frank:Yeah, right, awesome.
Elaine:Yeah, no way the way he walked the way he talked and he tried so hard.
Elaine:Oh, bless his heart, he did.
Elaine:So our little group protected him as much as we could, and I was amazed when he got in the Army during the Vietnam War.
Elaine:Oh, wow.
Elaine:Well, it was then they were calling. Yeah, he didn't know who he was until he showed up and they really did try to assign him to an office situation so he wouldn't be on the battlefield, because they literally were afraid he would get shot in the back.
Lauren:Right.
Elaine:The five of us kind of stood out as the odd ones, but we all had that ability in spite of everything else. That was going on with us and we were a good group. We tried to have fun with everybody else and do everything else, but we were just you were a theater, coven. Oh, there were about 20 of us that were the theater coven.
Elaine:Yeah.
Elaine:Oh yeah, oh yeah, there were. I worked behind the scenes, I painted what do you call it? Backdrops and I I could sew, so I helped with costumes and makeup. That was, in fact, I for a while. That's not I would. I thought that's what I would end up doing was something in entertainment.
Frank:Yeah, that's fun, though it's fun to find your.
Lauren:It's fun to find your tribe, especially in high school, that's when it's fun to find your tribe, especially in high school, that's when it's so important. Yeah, did a lot of people think like, oh, like elaine, she's just, there's something weird about her. Or did a lot of people know like I think she's psychic?
Elaine:you know when it comes to kids and you know this. You've probably already heard this from several of your clients, but, as a reminder, we are all psychic. Right we all call it intuition. I wish I could tell you how many police officers I've worked with that have said we know, we know, but we can't prove it.
Elaine:Here's the goal file.
Elaine:Help us prove it. I really hope and I know it to be true at some point, and I know it to be true in a hidden way, in some police, in some cities, they will have the phone numbers of psychics on hand and there will be a department and we will be allowed on the scene ASAP. Wait 20 years to file a case in a cold call with black and white pictures? Yeah, we can do it. Give us time, but don't expect us to do it overnight and solve this before Mama's really sick and I'm going. Why are you waiting?
Elaine:10 years On scene.
Elaine:Right. But in today's world the police departments are almost embarrassed. Yeah, let the public know, in spite of the fact that we'll ride on the back of a horse July the 4th weekend and try to find a body, yeah, the back of a horse, july the 4th weekend and try to find a body, yeah, and they're just, it's like. It's like they don't want us to interfere with their science.
Frank:So, let me, let me, can I back up a little bit, absolutely Okay. Okay, I just want to go back to like some of your. I just have more questions about your, your early years yeah, me too you. So you're in, we left off, you're in high school and you have, like your, your troop and um, I want to know, like, from from there, like, what point did you start leaning into the, the, the, the psychic, uh, knowing and like, deciding that it was something that was really meant for you to, to lean into?
Elaine:and tarot and all that, yeah, I always did to. And tarot and all that, yeah, I always did. My grandfather was a baptist preacher, among other things. I have to say he was more of a theologian. He studied religion. He didn't he. He got his collar as a baptist only because it was the closest school he could go to at the time.
Elaine:Remember, we're talking country here yeah right, but he also traveled and he studied other religions. So there were all kinds of books around the house open, some of them notes, some of them. It was very open-minded. My grandmother was Irish by lineage, so she had a lot of that, a different kind of energy, and they both got along really well with what they did. I always knew. I just knew when I had to hide it. I mean, that's, that's the difference. And and I know many psychics and healers that had the same kind of upbringing had the same kind of upbringing they they could not be who, they were, where they were when they were growing up. Does that?
Elaine:make sense yeah.
Elaine:It's like my mother when I came back, telling me you can't do this and I can't. Kids are all we're always. We're all psychic. I don't care whether you call it instincts survival, I don't care you call it instincts survival, I don't care. We're psychic. We are meant to survive with messages. Right, we are, and and it's instinctive. It's survival means many things in many cultures, many different cultures, and I mean witches got burned to the at the stake. They got, I mean when they weren't even witches.
Elaine:Yeah.
Elaine:Whether it was men or women, right Anything they were afraid of in history. Look what Hitler did. Hitler went after us too big time, except his astrologer he loved. His astrologer carried her everywhere she supposedly was in the bunker. But, you know there are children. I taught elementary school and the first day of class you could tell who was going to be a problem.
Elaine:Now.
Elaine:I would talk to teachers that had been doing it for 40 years by that time and new people like me coming in to the field. I went in at a later age but we instinctively could look around the room and know I don't care how well that kid's dressed, I don't care how polite they are, they're sneaky little wickets All the way yeah, all the way to the ones that their parents couldn't pay for a second set of clothes if they had to.
Elaine:Right yeah.
Elaine:And I. I had a kid. His name was Timmy. He was the sweetest kid. He had three shirts and two pair of pants, and one pair of blue and one pair of tinnies his whole entire second grade and he was the number one intellect in the class.
Elaine:Wow.
Elaine:And so patient and so kind and so unassuming. He just he would share whatever he happened to have for lunch. And yet his family had almost nothing.
Frank:Timmy's thriving now Timmy's doing OK.
Elaine:I kept up with he and his family all the way through high school. He, he would drop me. He would drop me a Christmas card.
Frank:No.
Elaine:Sign it every now and then he went into the Navy and did really well for himself. Yes, he did Nice. But there were other kids. We are all instinctive, psychic, instinctive from the moment we are born. It's just that some of us come in with the intention of actually providing information via that method.
Frank:Yeah, right, so when did you start? I mean, it sounds like, along the way you were, you were practicing here, here and there, right, but when did you officially start taking like clients, or or, or? When did you officially start Like, uh, did you do it and get into any kind of development at any point, like, like.
Elaine:Development came from my, my um interaction with the immediate people around me, family members and friends of theirs. My first official reading for a stranger was when I was 17, and it was for the mother of a friend of mine in high school.
Elaine:Wow, I was 17.
Elaine:She asked my mother for permission. I hear your daughter, da-da-da-da-da, and my mother gave permission. Okay, so daughter, da-da-da-da-da, and my mother gave permission.
Frank:Okay, so word was out a little bit.
Elaine:Yeah, you can't hide these things from other kids.
Elaine:Yeah.
Elaine:Kids are going to be. If I wanted to know something about another kid, I'd ask a kid yeah, totally yeah.
Frank:That's a great point. Yeah, kid, yeah.
Elaine:Totally. Yeah, that's a great point, yeah, yeah. And sometimes, even though they may not know that kid except to pass them in the hallway or see them on the on the playground, they some of them would come to me and say you know, so-and-so is not feeling so good these days. I can't tell you why, but maybe she'll tell you why.
Elaine:And then they'd run off.
Elaine:But that child knew, she already knew what was wrong when she? Knew that that day and I mean she ran like I was going to force her to.
Elaine:It's no things.
Elaine:So my first professional reading, if you want to call it. That was for the mother of a friend at 17. Mother told that lady you cannot pay her Okay, because she offered.
Elaine:Yeah.
Elaine:Absolutely not. No, well, the lady brought over a cake the next day. I'll take a cake Right, and I didn't charge for readings until I was in my mid-20s.
Frank:It sounds like your mom was trying to institute a strong ethical sense of doing this for the right reasons.
Elaine:Oh yeah, Absolutely. I did a lot of readings.
Elaine:Yeah.
Elaine:And, like most psychics, I still do free readings when it's appropriate, when we know, when somebody calls us, whether they can, whether they're in dire straits or really, really hurting. And and I'm not going to say I'm not going to read for you if you can't pay me. I'm here to be of service.
Elaine:Right yeah.
Elaine:So if I can help you, what's on your mind? And well, what can I do? I'll pay you when I get paid, da-da-da-da-da. And if nothing else, I'll say promise me. If there are kids in the house, I'll say promise me, you'll do something fun with the kids.
Elaine:Oh yeah.
Elaine:Something.
Frank:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Elaine:People need to pay for Right.
Elaine:If that payment is that important?
Elaine:they're more likely to take the information and use it rather than disperse with it. They're more likely to take the information and use it rather than disperse with it. It does. It is a weird thing about like an.
Frank:I don't want to call it an. It is an exchange.
Lauren:There's like energy exchange and someone like requiring something or, you know, getting something from you. It's there's like an accountability to, it's like, okay, well, at the very least like you're you're doing.
Frank:That's so cool. I mean, it's all it's like almost. This is something that this is very in line with the things I've been thinking about lately. But it is very interesting that that idea because it is an exchange, of you're exchanging your energy for, for something that someone needs, and like any three-dimensional representation of that exchange of energy, makes it like hold it's, it makes it feel like it's valuable in some way yeah or something, I don't know. It's, it's yeah, go ahead, sorry there are two two part.
Elaine:Two parts to that I find myself asking are thanking people for their trust. To me, that's a form of payment as well.
Elaine:Yeah.
Elaine:It's people's trust that's huge in the psychic fair.
Elaine:That is.
Elaine:In the healing and psychic world. It's very, very important and I'll thank people for their trust. To me that's a payment within itself, but it's also I'll tell them to do, to pass it forward you may not have anything right now that you think is of value, but you do when the time comes. If you're behind somebody in the grocery store and they need five dollars and you've got it to pay out their bill, then quietly tuck that five yeah you know I'll encourage people to do that.
Elaine:Do something for your kids, Go have fun with your kids, Go take your mom to dinner. You know I told a young man that not long ago and it was it's important. I don't care if it's Taco Bell, you know it doesn't have to be expensive. Go spend the day with a friend who just needs a friend.
Frank:That, to me, is payment yeah, yeah that's great that is interesting that's such a. That's great advice, just in general, not to make this about me, but I'm going through a thing right now where I'm redefining my sense of value and it's separate from like actual financial gain in any kind of way, and and I found that by like releasing the chasing the actual like dollar, I feel more invigorated to produce more, which is interesting.
Lauren:We were literally just talking about this.
Frank:Yeah.
Lauren:Like an hour before we started talking to you, it was like this realization that we were both having specifically for Frank yeah, like, yeah, the. The chasing, like tying a dollar to service, is like energetically not, it's not working for.
Elaine:Frank yeah.
Lauren:I say that in like it sounds. It doesn't sound great or something, but Well.
Frank:I mean it's just not what our society is built on Right. So, like the, the idea, uh, I mean it's just not what our society is built on Right. So, like the, the idea of like like this, like energetic exchange being um enough, or like asking someone to pay it forward in a way that does not just with pieces of paper, is like kind of a concept that I'm I'm really I want to build on.
Lauren:But like in the meantime, he's, he's helping me build something for my like a kind of a coaching, like empowerment thing for for me, and he's so energized by it and he's using his like skills and talent and all that stuff and it's like that's that right now. That's enough. So it's just, it's resonating what you were just saying.
Frank:Yeah, it's like trusting that reciprocity instead of expecting it.
Elaine:If you offer. What I have found is, if you offer a service, create an outline for it, put it out there, wish it well, because it has become an entity.
Elaine:Right Wish it well.
Elaine:Go back and check an entity Right. Wish it well. Go back and check with it every now and then. See what interest there has been. Check what's going on economically in your area, but the area can be worldwide now yeah, yeah.
Elaine:So it's different than it used to be. We'd have business cards, da-da-da-da-da, but not a whole lot's going to move on that until July and I know you didn't ask for a reading, but that's what I was getting when you were talking. Not a lot is going to happen with anything new until July, which includes your stuff as well.
Frank:Okay, we're moving in July and we've been told that.
Elaine:New beginnings, yeah.
Frank:We've been told that our future path has a lot to do with, for some reason, where we are.
Elaine:Oh, geographically Geographical. There are psychics that do geographical readings. Where do I belong?
Elaine:Yeah.
Frank:Oh, wow. This is so interesting to me, though, because, like you said, we are a global digital community, so sometimes being geographically in a particular place doesn't feel like it should be that important.
Lauren:But it is and we're trying to get everything in place and it's a lot of moving parts. I think because of that, it's like I don't know energetically. We're supposed to not be in this location anymore.
Elaine:You've got a lot of concrete around you, don't you Behind you, and it feels like blocks of concrete, like you're in a bunker.
Lauren:Oh, the studio absolutely is you, is you?
Frank:gotta get out of there oh, this, this space is a box.
Lauren:Yeah, yeah, this is inside our garage.
Frank:Yeah, I built I built this room inside of our garage for the purpose of being. This is like my creative box, um, because I didn't have a good space for it inside. But like I spend we spend way too much time in here and I'm trying to move this into a when we're moving. I want to make this a space that has a window.
Elaine:Both of you need the roots on your feet Both of you when you go look for new spaces, take your shoes off and feel how the dirt feels.
Lauren:Oh, that's, interesting Okay.
Elaine:See how you're, even if you just walk on a lawn. If you're considering buying or renting or whatever you're doing, it's really important that you have a wider space. Okay, and yeah, you're going to have concrete, but you got to drive on something, right?
Elaine:Yeah.
Elaine:But you need something where air can come through your space when you open the doors, open the windows and not feel like you're in a bunker.
Elaine:That doesn't mean you can't have a creative room, absolutely, but be careful about what you construct it with what you're making out of, and if you want a concrete floor, that's fine, but also keep in mind that the more things like that that you have, it could possibly not only protect but interfere with energy. So when you create your new studio, if you're not knowledgeable about feng shui, before you build it and create it, talk with somebody about feng shui and flow of energy. It's just that wherever you move to, you're going to be there a long time. This is a pretty stationary new space for you.
Lauren:That's good to hear. We want to move to San Diego. It's been this big upheaval just because we've been in this house for 12 years, that's hard. Yeah, but we feel very like again keep talking about like misalignment. We feel misaligned with like this well, you've changed area, yeah, you've changed yeah you have changed.
Elaine:You've changed as a couple, you've changed as individuals yeah, exactly, you've got this pyramid, this three wall thing going when you have couples. You've got each other and then you've got the relationship.
Elaine:Yeah.
Elaine:You've got a pyramid always, so you have, and the number three is your unity, number two things coming together to make that third, which is the relationship. Now, what does the relationship? Where does the relationship go from here? And as you change, you're going to find yourselves with those holes and those spaces occasionally, but still you come back together and you connect.
Elaine:And that base of your relationship will change also, which is what's happening right now. You just have to be sure, feng shui-wise, what you're trying to create when you're creating. What you're trying to create when you're creating, like building your studio colors, texture, windows, freedom of breath You've got to have something. I look at musical studios sometimes and recording studios and they're beautiful, but there's no flow.
Frank:They're made to be dead spaces, yeah.
Elaine:Right, and I'm thinking somebody open a window and there's no flow. They're made to be dead spaces. Yeah Right, and I'm thinking somebody open a window and there's no we love any little little bits of like helpful.
Frank:Yeah, I mean specifically because, like the, the past year and a half has been such a period of well, look what I put on my water bottle. It's my thing, right, the the two of swords there.
Elaine:Oh, okay.
Frank:Yeah, yeah, but I think mostly for a decision on for me like, um, if I was going to stick with the old way of how I was operating in the world or try something new and and and of course you know the two of swords. There's a certain element in there about trusting even though you don't know what's coming.
Elaine:So the other thing about the two of swords, if I may interrupt for just a second teachers coming out of me here, please do. She's like this. She's blindfolded. You're covering your heart. You're sitting down, you've got a lot of gray. I don't know what cards you're using, but in the rider weight deck you've got a lot of gray wisdom, knowledge and experience. But if you go this way, you can't come back here for a very long time.
Elaine:Yeah.
Elaine:So, whatever way you go, you're going to stay there. That's probably why I picked that up a while ago. When you move, you've got to be sure of your decision about staying. Now you're wanting to go to San Diego. I don't know why, I don't need to know why, but the reason for you being there could change in two or three years. So, you need to make sure that everything of a foundation can be with you for, say, 12 years or more.
Elaine:Yeah, yeah.
Elaine:That won't change as much as you can and we don't always have those answers. But just know, with the two of swords are more yeah. Yeah, that won't change as much as you can and we don't always have those answers. But just know, with the two of swords and you're ingraining that energy by carrying it with you all the time on your cup, you're drinking it, you're energizing everything in you you put in that cup with that energy. Yeah.
Frank:So let me know if that's bad Cause, one of the reasons I put it on my. I put it on my cup specifically so that I remember to be intentional about my, my decisions, and make sure that I'm moving forward with not just intention but choosing authenticity.
Elaine:There you go.
Frank:Okay.
Elaine:See, you've got it figured out. Just know that sometimes the meanings behind all of that can be affected and we don't realize it.
Frank:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I completely agree. I don't have any other tarot sticker on my cup because of that. I just wanted the reminder constantly to choose. What I'm concerned about now is if I'm putting myself in a constant state of not paralysis, but of Indecision. Because I'm putting myself in a constant state of not paralysis, but of Indecision, because I'm not being indecisive.
Lauren:Yeah.
Frank:I'm being decisive. I don't know.
Elaine:Everything about that card says I'm shutting out any influence, blindfolded, covering your heart, being quiet. If you look where her elbows are on her body, if you look at she's crossing her heart, she's trying to block out any kind of emotion and she's trying not to be distracted by visionary or heart energy. She's going completely inward, which is not a bad thing, it's just and the number two is two things coming together to make a what?
Frank:there's no three on that card. Maybe it's time to draw my sticker. I think it might be new sticker time no, you have good intention there.
Elaine:I'm just drawing some attention to maybe some things you had not realized or didn't know. But I think it's a cool idea that you've got the sticker there. You have that energy. But remember, you're telling yourself on one hand, go inside, be quiet, but yet you're out here Right.
Lauren:Right, yeah, happen. Oh, does that sound familiar? Does that sound familiar? I just told you the other day, like you need to, you need to do, uh, spiritual, like something spiritually, mentally, physically, every day. Like, specifically, you need to do that, that work to the receiving part.
Elaine:Yes, the quiet time you have to do what she's doing. You have to shut it down and be quiet.
Elaine:Right.
Elaine:And listen, rather than constantly getting answers. What here? What here? What here? What else can I do? What here? What here? You have Asking questions. That's marvelous, but you have to be quiet and get the information.
Frank:That is something that I have like intuitively picked. Well, maybe not intuitively, I'm just thinking about it, Even if it's just one word.
Elaine:even if it's just one word.
Frank:Yeah, even with a podcast, I'm always in the state of gathering information and, like I'm a big mental guy, I like to like read and inquire and investigate and stuff like that which is part of me, and I used to fight that a little bit more than I am now, but now I'm like learning how to use it. But I am realizing that you can you know what's the point of knowledge if you're just gathering it just to spit out facts later, like I'm trying to really incorporate this into my being, so like your advice of of saying like you need to shut it down a little bit and really do that work and yeah, yeah so.
Elaine:And feel because, remember, she's got her heart shut too. So how do I feel? Because that's a big messenger, our feelings are huge messengers yeah that's the instinctive part that we work on with our psychic stuff is our, is our feeling? You walk into a room and you're going oh this, room doesn't feel good.
Elaine:Right.
Elaine:So it's, it's it that's part of our, that's part of our instinctive way of life. Yeah, you walk into a new business and you go. I don't think I want to spend my money here, Right.
Elaine:Right yeah.
Elaine:Or we all do it. I mean, you've done it a thousand times and, whether it's conscious or subconscious, we just know where we belong and where we don't, if we will listen to our body parts.
Frank:That's true, I mean. And also another thing and Lauren can attest to this a big thing that I've been about lately and I'm really trying to integrate is the concept of my own spiritual sovereignty.
Frank:I like that sovereignty yeah, like knowing what I'm about without the outside influence and and then making having that settle into my core enough so that I can. So it's like a muscle memory, so I don't have to think about it so much and remember it's just the way I am. So I'm trying to like re integrate an authenticity that I don't have to think about, that I just instinctively know and feel and can radiate. You know what I mean.
Elaine:Yeah, that's awesome Working on yourself instinctively and not everybody does that that are getting started in this field. Regardless of what their subject matter is or their curiosity, they don't realize how much power and ability they have individually. The very fact that they're asking the question about how to get this better tells me that they're serious and that they're at a point in their life, usually with major changes, and they're a little bit afraid of where that's going to take them.
Elaine:I tell all tell some of my all of my tarot classes and and I'll tell them you're going to lose family and friends over this. Yeah, yeah. Unless you're in a very unusual culture, people will think you're crazy, yeah for sure.
Elaine:Banker lady, I don't care, but it all centers on how you present yourself while you're going through these changes. While you're, because it is a change. You're talking about muscle memory. Yeah, it's a brain memory. It's a past life I live in. I believe in past lives. Some people get to a certain age and they're just like a light bulb turned off or on and they're going. I don't even know myself anymore. Well, sometimes it's because of a past life and they're going. I don't even know myself anymore. Well, sometimes it's because of a past life experience. They're getting ready to walk into it and they're scared to death of it.
Elaine:Maybe they were one of the ones that got drowned, burnt, you know whatever. They're scared to death for anybody to know. I also know people who have been in the business and this is a business a long time and all of a sudden it shuts off.
Elaine:They can't meditate, they can't do the work and they can be very well known and sometimes they'll make themselves sick, so to speak. So they'll have a reason not to do the work. Well, if you do a past life regression with them occasionally, that that is because, let's say, this happens at 62. At least one life, if not more, was taken away from them at that age because they were that Well. They want to live a longer life, so they subconsciously shut themselves off and they can't do it. I know one guy that had, he fought cancer for four years. He couldn't do any reading. He couldn't see, he just couldn't do it. And when they did, he and a lady out of Tulsa, Oklahoma. She did a past life regression for him when she was here in town to do some work. It came out the very first session they had. He was so afraid that he would not be able to see his grandkids grow up that he made himself sick so he couldn't do the work oh my gosh I know it works.
Frank:Works both ways, I mean fear is oh yes so hold on, let me, can I ask you something, because this is something that lauren and I were talking about last night, and this is a related topic. So you're talking about how someone might have died when they were 62 and it suddenly is affecting you know, in a past life I mean, and it is affecting them now, uh, in this life, at this age, even though they're alive, and doing well, not feeling bad, and doing well.
Frank:Right, and last night I was talking to Lauren about what's it called Ancestral Trauma Trauma, yeah, and like how we can carry these traumas with us without even knowing what the trauma might be. And I was saying like I was having a moment where I'm like, well, that's not fair, Because why are we going around carrying around someone else's trash? You know what I mean? Dna.
Frank:Yeah so because I I've been told on a handful of occasions that I might be carrying something from. You know, my grandparents immigrated from Cuba. They were exiles and I've heard that that's a big, that can be a thing that carries a lot with it. Yeah, and I don't blame them at all for that, and they're both past now. But I've been told that I might be carrying maybe not that specifically, but something ancestral. I just don't know what it is. It's always funny to me. The question that I'm asking is what can we do as individuals if we might be carrying the trauma of the generations that came before us? And how do we even identify that if we don't even know what it could be?
Elaine:you know, Well, the off the top of my head thing is number one. You've realized you have an ancestral issue, that's a biggie, and then you accept it. The problem with that question is and you and you just said it and we don't even know what it is- yeah.
Elaine:The first thing you do is, if there are any yeah, that was how it was described at the time, but it could go even deeper. You need to get as much information about their life in the old land as you possibly can, because they had to get on that plane, that train, that boat, that whatever to get out of there for whatever reason they're going to take that.
Elaine:And if somebody was a young child, like I mentioned, my stepdad a while ago going to take that. And if somebody was a young child like I mentioned my stepdad a while ago he was number 16 in his, oh my gosh, that's, and the baby and the only one born in the united states to an italian family wow they left sicily, they ran from sicily yeah, yeah to. Really bad people were controlling sicily at the time yeah and they ran to america.
Elaine:well, some of bad people were controlling Sicily at the time. Yeah, and they ran to America. Well, some of their people were already here. In fact, when they got to outside of Boston, to their new home, their three story home had already been built by their relatives.
Frank:Whoa, that's amazing.
Elaine:Right, but those kids were like one year, two years apart. I mean that woman was pregnant her entire adult life.
Lauren:That's a nightmare, I know scary, right, yeah?
Elaine:And you can't tell me that some of his older brothers and sisters weren't afraid that at some point, somebody from Italy that lived in that area would find them and burn their house down.
Elaine:Right, even Henry talked about that on occasion, the fear. But they felt safer here than they did there. I don't think they ever got the full. I don't think the kids ever got the full story about that. They were just told that things were bad, there were bad, evil people and they had to run and all that stuff. I mean they left everything. They left their businesses, they left their homes, they left everything. Yeah, walked away.
Elaine:So that's the first thing you have to do when you're looking at ancestral trauma. You have to get as much of the story as you possibly can Now. Second part of that is the spiritual side. That's the practical side. But the more you know about that, some of that may be well, that's never going to touch me here. I can respect that and you show respect to your ancestors, but it doesn't touch you. It's not. It's part of your DNA, it's part of your history. Now you make better of the situation than they ever could because the times are different, right, and you have. You've grown up with time. They wouldn't know what that microphone is in front of you.
Elaine:Right yeah.
Elaine:They would have no clue. Right, you do, which says you have grown, and you have grown spiritually, because you're asking that question out of respect. It doesn't have to affect you, but you do have to look at it and appreciate what they did, respect what they did, for whatever reason that. You may not get the whole story, but they gave you an opportunity to live a certain way and as long as you're living that to the best of your ability, then their energy was not wasted to make you safe. It just wasn't.
Elaine:Yeah.
Elaine:So, as long as you can say thank you and mean it and continue to grow on all levels that are important to you and your sweetheart, that's all you have to do. That's all you have to do. You don't have to be afraid anymore. Fear is our greatest teacher, equal only to love.
Elaine:Yeah, that's true.
Elaine:Recognize what our fear is and turn it to love in its own way and respect. I had. I never got to know his mother very well, or even some of his brothers and sisters, because he traveled all the time we were. We weren't there. Had we settled in Boston, I'm sure I would have spoken better Italian, let's be honest about that. I would love it when he would talk on the phone to his relatives, because it was this beautiful language.
Elaine:Yeah.
Elaine:You know, and I picked up a lot when we were in Italy and continue to hear it over my lifetime, but he didn't engage with me enough.
Frank:Yeah.
Elaine:In Italian and I'm sorry that I didn't push him more. I learned more Germany the other way. But when it comes to ancestral DNA, the first step is knowledge as much as you can get. The second step is realizing that fear will traumatize you, if you allow it, because of what they did. What is this saying about paying my father's debts, or something like that?
Frank:I know that phrase yeah, yeah, the son will pay.
Elaine:I can't remember. Y'all know what I'm talking about.
Elaine:Yeah, yeah.
Elaine:And yes, in the old days, yes, that was the case. If a father or a family owed a debt, it was their children's responsibility. And even today, in our legal, in some states, in our legal format, the kids have to pay, whether it's tax bills or something else. That's different than emotional debt. You killed my father, I'll kill yours. You know you burn my house down, I'll burn your house down. That's the way a lot of issues were settled in the old days and in old countries Eye for an eye kind of thing.
Elaine:Yeah.
Elaine:Whether it was our fault or not. We were five years old when that happened. So you have to look at fear and turn it to love and appreciation and respect for your ancestors and eventually learn from the information as much as you can so that it's never repeated. That's why we need to know as much as we can about our ancestors, so we don't repeat what was considered a mistake in that lifetime but takes a new form in this lifetime. Does that make sense? It does.
Frank:Can I ask you a question real quick? Sure, did you tap into something that the immigration might not have just been political, or is that just a general thing that you're—.
Elaine:A lot of it was political, okay, but there were very personal things that happened to not only your parents but to other relatives. The politicians made it personal. Sure, other relatives, the politicians made it personal.
Elaine:Sure.
Elaine:So, whether it was taking belongings from them, whether it was keeping them apart from loved ones, whether it was not giving them, say, a passport, you know what, whatever it took, there was something very personal going on with with your family.
Frank:Yeah, I know that left, like, I think my, my, my grandparents owned a farm or something in in cuba and I know that very slowly, like friends, were disappearing in the middle of the night around them and property was being uh, what's called taken. Yeah, but I don't know if there's more to it than that.
Elaine:But I can ask there is, there is, and the more your, your people, fought back, your family fought back, they got to a point that they, they knew that if they didn't get out they wouldn't live. Yeah, they literally were running.
Frank:All right Cause. I'm trying to get to the bottom of this because I know, yeah, I know there's something going on, I, but this brings up another question, and that is what about? What do people do if they don't have access to information about their lineage or what their family might have gone through, but they're still carrying something that they don't know how to identify? Is there anything they can do?
Elaine:Yes, there is Meditation for one thing, hypnosis for another, talking to a very, going to a very, very, very good medium and getting information from the other side. There's always a way to get the information.
Frank:You know what I forgot about mediums?
Elaine:How did you?
Frank:know a few. How did I, how did that not come up as an option for me in my mind just now? They don't know. That's so funny.
Elaine:Because of your logic.
Lauren:Yes, thank you, and because you've not, as as many mediums that we've spoken to and interviewed frank, has never officially had a mediumship reading I haven't, so yeah that's why it's not like I don't know why I do I it.
Frank:I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it. I'm excited about it. Now I have a really good reason to. I think that was the thing I didn't have a really good reason to. It would have just been me showing up and being like, hey, anybody got anything. But now I'm like, hold on. Now I need, now, I would like to know some stuff. This is a.
Lauren:What I think is so interesting about, like the way that things used to be like when you used to do readings was just like I remember you telling me when we had a phone conversation you were like, oh, if you had my business card, it was just my name and phone number. And if you had it, then, like you were given it, someone gave it to you. Like, can you talk about how that used to be when you were doing? When you were given it? Someone gave it to you Like, can you talk about how how that used to be when you were doing?
Elaine:when you were still fighting.
Lauren:Yeah, yeah, like that's such an interesting. I mean now, you know, just, it's such a contrast with, like TikTok, live mediumship, spirit led readings and to to thinking about. Hello, elaine, I got your phone number from Nancy in town. Can I come to your house and have a reading? You know that kind of thing.
Elaine:And there were times when people did not read out of their homes. They had an office Right, right, brick and mortar.
Frank:Yeah Well, we didn't want people to know where we lived. Yeah, right, right. Brick and mortar.
Elaine:Yeah Well, we didn't want people to know where we lived.
Elaine:Yeah, oh yeah.
Elaine:And that was it. And you didn't dare have business cards that said Tarot on them.
Lauren:Yeah, right.
Elaine:She's asking about what we used to call calling cards and you just had your name and a phone number and that was it. Never an address, never a city that you lived in.
Lauren:Right.
Elaine:That was just a pretty calling card of some sort. In fact, before I got my podcast I had and I was running out of cards and I had decided to go back to calling cards. That's great, not because I was wanting to hide like I did before, but because I thought things were so crazy and people had two sided cards. Y'all would get a kick out of my business cards. They're just the opposite, I know. But you know those, those things that you point your phone at?
Frank:Oh yeah, qr code.
Elaine:Yeah, that's right. I was talking to the lady who she was a student and then she became a buddy and a friend and she's wonderful at what she does and she said, Elaine, you got to have a QR code. I said, well, can I just have Elaine and a phone number and a QR code? No, Elaine Advertising.
Lauren:Your business card is your advertisement.
Elaine:Okay, so one side is black and that's the podcast side.
Elaine:Oh cool.
Elaine:It's got little things that you know sound things.
Elaine:Oh yeah.
Elaine:And then the other side is kind of greeny yellow and that's the Tarot. I'm developing another site that is educational Tarot.
Lauren:Oh, that's, amazing Cool.
Elaine:It's a teaching thing and I'm excited about both. But my card ended up being exactly opposite of what I thought I was going to have. But there was a lot of secrecy around us and there were many, many readers that did not have business cards until probably 20 years ago and it would be. Here's a phone number call her, call him. This person does numerology or astrology or readings, and a lot of times it wasn't even what you did, it was just the fact that you were a psychic. We were all grouped together, but astrology was a more common tool that was accepted.
Elaine:Right.
Elaine:The word tarot covered a lot. Palmistry was another one. That was a game thing. That was fun to have your palms writ.
Elaine:Yeah.
Elaine:And regular card readings. Readings, that's 52 cards versus the 78 you know, just just your regular play poker cards oh people read, read like, do divination kind of stuff with like playing cards. Oh yeah, oh, that was that. The tarot cards are hundreds and hundreds of years old and those were created before regular playing cards, and nobody knows exactly how. But regular playing cards were a way of doing divination kind of under the table.
Elaine:Kind of thing.
Elaine:But to be a psychic, we were all gathered together. I don't read palms. I still have people ask if I do palm readings. Maybe I've got a couple of phone numbers. We were doing a pretty good-sized fair in Midland Texas, god, 30 years ago, and it was a big fair. It was a big fair for Midland Texas and Julie the producer at the time. She loved to have everybody, or as many of us, go to dinner as possible. Well, sometimes that meant 30 people in a restaurant.
Frank:Wow.
Elaine:I know Well by the time you get the readers and the vendors. But we had such a following in Midland we literally would have people follow us.
Lauren:Oh no.
Elaine:Well, julie will have always called ahead and said I'm bringing this many people and could you please make sure there are enough servers, you know, so we can all get our meals. Anyway, she really took care of us. Well, one night we were waiting for our food to be delivered and this really not. She was a cute young lady and she wasn't one of our servers, but she snuck over and she said who at this part of the table does palm readings? None of us did. One of our really super sweet astrology readers grabbed her hand, held it for a few minutes and she said let me see. Well, she wasn't doing a palm reading, although she knew about the lines of the hands, but what she was doing was feeling this girl's energy and she gave her a full reading well, hold on.
Frank:I love this idea of palmistry being like a, a sneaky way to do a normal like psychic reading.
Elaine:Right.
Frank:We've also never talked to anybody that that that's worked with with um spirit boards. Ouija board.
Lauren:Oh yeah.
Elaine:Yeah.
Lauren:So, do you know any spirit boards?
Frank:Everyone's favorite. No one, no one's allowed to have tarot cards, but but Ouija boards are in Toys R Us, yeah.
Elaine:You know I went to. I was in Oklahoma many, many, many, many, many years ago to go to a championship rodeo thing that a friend of mine rode in A woman. She's 42 years old and still riding barrel, racing and winning awards, oh boy.
Lauren:Ouch Holy cow, I awards. Oh boy, ouch Holy cow.
Elaine:I know she was awesome and this was going to be her last rodeo. Of course, a lot of us that knew her. We just got in this caravan and we were going to go and have a good time. Well, they also had one of the largest flea markets. One of the largest flea markets at the rodeo was in conjunction with a lot of other stuff going on in kind of like the Texas fair, the state fairs, you know that kind of thing.
Frank:Yeah.
Elaine:And they had one of the largest flea markets ever in Oklahoma at this particular event. Well we're. I mean it would have taken two days to hit every single table and vendor. I mean it was huge.
Frank:That's fun.
Elaine:And milling around and doing our thing and I found a Ouija board.
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