Clairvoyaging

076: Conversations with a Spiritual Trailblazer // with Elaine Ireland // Part 2

• Wayfeather • Season 1 • Episode 76

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What if objects could choose us? In this continuation of our conversation with the one and only Elaine Ireland, we explore the energetic connection between humans and the items we encounter—sometimes briefly, sometimes for a lifetime. Elaine shares eerie and inspiring stories, from a mysteriously vanishing Ouija board to a pawn shop ring that simply wouldn’t "let" her keep it. Along the way, she introduces us to the practice of pyramid cleansing and offers grounded, spiritual tools for understanding the subtle energies that live in our spaces and things.

But this episode goes far beyond objects. Elaine opens up about soul-level memory—what she calls “heart memories”—and how they persist even through aging and cognitive decline. Through deeply personal stories, including one about her 103-year-old aunt, she illustrates how love, presence, and spiritual resonance shape the legacy we leave behind. Plus, she dives into the emotional patterns we unconsciously repeat—like attracting “the same person in different bodies”—and how we can finally break free. If you’re seeking healing, self-awareness, or a new lens on your spiritual path, Elaine’s insights will stay with you long after the episode ends.

To learn more about Elaine or to work with her:

Visit: www.elaineirelandtarotmaster.com

Clairvoyaging is now a fiscally sponsored project of Fractured Atlas, a 501(c)(3) charity, so any donations are now tax deductible. If you’d like to support our projects that aim to foster understanding for diverse spiritual belief systems, visit www.clairvoyaging.com/support. 

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Lauren:

Hello cosmic creatures. This is part two of our interview with Elaine Ireland. If you haven't heard part one, back up, go back. Listen to part one first, don't miss it. I'm Lauren Leon.

Frank:

And I'm Frank, because at this point you might have forgotten.

Lauren:

We are a married couple learning how to develop our own intuition, and this one is episode 76 of Cla. Claire Voyaging. Wayfeather Media presents Claire Voyaging.

Frank:

Hi hi, hello, pretty little babies welcome back welcome back welcome back to part two this is part two with elaine ireland if you didn't see, if you didn't catch part one, go catch part one. Yeah, you won't do part one, go catch part one.

Lauren:

Yeah, you won't do it. You're going to be like what are they talking about?

Frank:

Why did this episode start in the middle?

Lauren:

What? This is the middle of a conversation. I think I missed something. I think I'm lost. I'm not sure if I heard the first part. I think our speech pattern is starting to emulate our son.

Frank:

Oh, for sure.

Lauren:

It's podcast time. It's probably podcast time. I'm pretty sure You're probably right. Hi everyone.

Frank:

What's going on?

Lauren:

Guys, this is the second time we've done this intro and we're just going to be totally honest. It's late because we've been packing. No, frank's been packing, my sweet husband has been doing so much work.

Frank:

But let me just totally assure you, the first time we did this intro it was a banger.

Lauren:

It slapped, it was great, but what?

Frank:

happened? What happened? I don't know, riverside, sorry, riverside, I'm going to throw you under the bus. We got a beep, beep, beep sound. That's it. Yeah, so anyway.

Lauren:

Guys, I just have a shout out to give, and that is to cedar. Yeah, thank you, cedar thank you, cedar cedar donated to our documentary fundraising campaign thank you and we have, like half a month, a little more than half a month left of our campaign.

Elaine:

We're getting there.

Lauren:

We're doing it Slow and steady wins the race.

Frank:

This is going to no matter what it's going to happen, so oh yeah, Fully believe that the universe has our backs. It's happening.

Lauren:

Yeah, we are taking a leap of faith once we have the funds, and the funds will be there.

Frank:

So like, like I said, like I said the first time around, a one Cedar at a time.

Lauren:

Exactly.

Frank:

Thank you, cedar.

Lauren:

If you want to be cool like Cedar and contribute, you're all cool. But if you want to be even cooler, go to clear voyagingcom, slash support and click on the five. Oh, one, c, three.

Frank:

You really show your cards that you were raised with two older brothers because you hold everyone's coolness over their head all the time. Oh, you want to be cool, okay, yeah.

Lauren:

Say something stupid, Lauren.

Frank:

Give me your popsicle.

Lauren:

That was the stupidest thing I've ever heard in my life. Thank you to my brothers for my trauma. Jk, jk. All right, elaine.

Frank:

K.

Lauren:

JK.

Frank:

All right, elaine.

Lauren:

OK, well, it's Elaine part two, so you heard part one.

Elaine:

Let's get back into it and send it. Here are her amazing stories.

Lauren:

All right To the moon.

Elaine:

You know I went to. I was in Oklahoma many, many, many, many, many years ago to go to a championship rodeo thing that a friend of mine rode in A woman she's 42 years old and still riding, barrel racing and winning awards.

Lauren:

Oh boy.

Elaine:

Ouch, holy cow, I know she was awesome and this was going to be her last rodeo. Like, I know she was awesome and this was going to be her last rodeo, of course, a lot of us that knew her. We just got in this caravan and we were going to go and have a good time. Well, they also had one of the largest flea markets. The rodeo was in conjunction with a lot of other stuff going on in kind of like the Texas fair, the state fairs, you know that kind of thing. Yeah, and they had one of the largest flea markets ever in Oklahoma at this particular event. Well we're, I mean it would have taken two days to hit every single table and vendor. I mean it was huge.

Frank:

That's fun.

Elaine:

And milling around and doing our thing and I found a Ouija board that was well-loved, paid $125 for it.

Lauren:

Oh my gosh.

Elaine:

It's saying Elaine, what are you doing? How are you going to buy gas next week? Anyway, she had put it in this really pretty velvety thing that looked like it belonged to the board. She wasn't sure whether it was, but it fit. So anyway, and and walked around with it. Walked around with it and somewhere along the way I put it down on a table. And when I went looking for it we went to the car. I had my other two purchases and and one of my girlfriends saidaine, where's your board? Because it was in this maroony looking velvet thing. That was hard to miss. And I said oh, my god, I don't know. So three of us, we, we, we went back in there and kind of separated and looked for it and never got it back it left that was my big signal to not mess with Ouija boards.

Lauren:

It left you, yeah, wow.

Elaine:

And I knew that my grandmother had a Ouija board and it was a single slider.

Lauren:

Yeah.

Elaine:

It was just a single slider and she made the slider herself. And it was in a hole in it, rather than plastic that covers the hole. It just made a hole and she used it quite often and I never learned to be afraid of it. But there might have been something about that board. Of course I would have brought it home and cleansed it under the pyramid. Sure, I would have walked through all that.

Frank:

Yeah.

Elaine:

But I was not supposed to have that board and I thought, okay, all I can do is release it and just hope that somebody gets it that needs it will treat it with kindness, because I was going to use it as a collector's item, not as a.

Frank:

I wasn't going to use it oh man, it must have looked cool. Wait, I'm sorry, what is?

Lauren:

cleansed it on the pyramid. What does that? What does that mean?

Frank:

oh I I. The reason why I moved past that so quickly is because I assumed she has some kind of quartz crystal pyramid kind of thing.

Lauren:

Is that what you're talking about?

Elaine:

Yeah, the one I had at the time was glass and it was about 36 inches across I could put something that big and it was about two feet tall.

Frank:

That's amazing, whoa.

Elaine:

Yeah, it was made by a glass maker here at the store the shop is called Renaissance and it was made out of cut glass. It was just beautiful and it was a gift, and it opened one side, completely open, so you could put a full size something in there, and that's where it would have gone. And it was stolen, oh my gosh Wow.

Elaine:

Yeah, so, but I still have smaller pyramids and when I buy a new piece of jewelry or a new stone or a new crystal or a new skull or something like that, I always cleanse them. When I bring things, I smoke things like pieces of furniture. If they're used, I always do a cleansing.

Frank:

Yeah, so it's funny that you're saying these are just made out of glass, yeah.

Elaine:

They can be made out of everything. I have another one made out of. I call it plumber's piping. I have another one made out of. I call it plumber's piping. So is it the?

Frank:

shape that's more important to the clearing than it is the actual material.

Elaine:

Yes, it has to be. If you're going to cleanse under a pyramid, the dimensions have to be perfect.

Frank:

I've never. I don't know anything about this Me neither.

Lauren:

That's why I was like what did you? Just say.

Elaine:

It sounded so like it's not a pyramid until the measurements are perfect on all sides.

Lauren:

Right, oh, okay, t-minus one hour until Frank is looking up a.

Frank:

We have 13 pyramids in this house all over the place, and I'm putting my cup of coffee in there just in case I don't see okay look, look, look okay. So it's like all right okay oh, okay.

Lauren:

So you said also yeah, did you make that?

Elaine:

no, I bought.

Lauren:

Okay, but if you're just listening to this, elaine is showing us a pyramid. Frank, you're better at describing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Frank:

It's almost like the framing of a pyramid. There you go. Yeah, every corner is made out of a pipe. It's not covered, it's not solid. You can stick your hand through it if you wanted to.

Elaine:

Right, and you can hang it. This hung over my bed, over my head.

Frank:

Oh Elaine, what is it supposed to do exactly?

Elaine:

It helps you quiet. Well in that kind of situation. It helps you quieten down and see it just folds.

Frank:

This one just oh, that's your travel pyramid, sort of Maybe a little too big for the TSA, but that's okay sort of maybe a little too big for the tsa, but that's okay, they probably take it away from me, but it folds up, whoa see now, see, it's still a pyramid.

Elaine:

Yeah, yeah, so I could still use it in different ways. That's why this one was made this way but, you never want your point down okay you want your base like that? Never heard of this this is great and it's just supposed to.

Frank:

Is it for, like energy directing, or what is it?

Elaine:

cleansing and directing I had. I bought a ring at a pawn shop and I bought it because of the mystery around it and I could tell it was. It was multi-metal. Does that make sense? Yeah, okay, yeah, and it had swirls inside, inside as well as outside, and it was thick it was. It went from knuckle to knuckle on me and I was surprised it fit me and it was a ring that you couldn't tell whether it was purposely made for a man or a woman.

Elaine:

It was just, I thought, a really cool what I thought was silver, only to find out it was white gold, right, and it had yellow gold in it and it had some bronze in it. There are some bronze symbols on the underneath side and I thought I'm going to find out about this ring. It was obvious that it had been either specially made for somebody or maybe even the owner, but it felt weird to me when I picked it up and I'm holding it in my hands and I'm rubbing it and I breath on it and nothing would change it. Its energy was just. I'm not moving.

Lauren:

Huh, whoa.

Elaine:

Dang, and I went okay, and I put it back several times and the young man that was helping me kept. He said for the third time. He said and I was checking out with something else, a guitar in fact, which I was going to use as a gift and he said you want to make sure? Do you want me to hold that ring for you for 24 hours? And I said no, I'm going to go ahead and get it. And he looked at me really funny and I said what do you know about this ring? Yeah, and he told me a little bit about the guy that had actually intended to come back and get it, because here in Texas pawn shop people you can sell it outright, but you have you have to sign a release so they can put it immediately into their, their, their what do you call it? Displays, or you can put it like 30 days or, you know, sometimes 60 days, depending on the shop, where you have an option to come back and get it, buy it back. So it's a loan thing, which was the original use for pawn shops. But the guy had called him like three or four days and said I've decided to let the ring go. So he came in and he signed it and signed it off and left it there.

Elaine:

The owner of the shop, which was small, hesitated to put it up for sale. He was going to let a jeweler melt, buy it, melt it down because it was so odd it was either going to sell immediately or not at all. Yeah, and he told me a little bit about the description of the guy that sold it and his energy. And I'm looking at this young kid talking about energy and I'm going yeah, you got it, kid, and why selling people typically do. Yeah, yeah, they do, and I was grateful for it. Made, took notes, brought it home, put it under the pyramid. I left it there for about four months. Actually, I forgot it was there. I think I was intended to forget it was there and I had wrapped it up in a burlap sack and I unwrapped it, left it exposed, cleansed it with soap and water baking powder, got it really shiny, pretty, and thought thought, oh, I'd love to wear that.

Elaine:

And I immediately got no oh no, okay, so I left it there. I forgot about it and I was in my office every day but it was like it was on the peripheral over here and I didn't pay attention to it. And finally I had a small group over one night for cake and coffee and conversation and one of the girls spotted it. My office door was closed and I came down the hall when I saw the light she was in here and I didn't care if she was in here or not or in my office at the time, and she said that ring is beautiful. And I said does it talk to you? What's it saying? We had this conversation and I said sweetie, it's been under there for at least four or five months now and it's the energy is not budging. She picked it up with permission, held it in her hand and opened it and it was like that ring had just opened up whoa.

Elaine:

I said if you want to take it home and see if it's yours, it's yours, I'll pay you for it. Nope, nope. Next time you make fudge, remember me.

Frank:

How does that? Did she ever do anything with?

Elaine:

it? Yeah, she wore it all the time. She had great meditation with it. What do anything with it? She wore it, yeah, she wore it all the time. She had great meditation with it. What? She was on the same wavelength as whoever made it or had it for a long. I had a feeling that that ring was in mourning. I felt like the ring was felt abandoned by the person that had taken it to the pawn shop. It was like it was like a dog who waited for its owner to return, that was never going to return but wouldn't eat, wouldn't budge, just waiting to be retrieved. And it didn't come back. And by the time I brought it home. So her energy must have been very similar to that man. That man's energy, or the ring, had just given up, but I wasn't the one that was supposed to have it, so its way of not budging was not of not being. Mine was not budging.

Frank:

Yeah, how many things are we interacting with every day where we're like trying to make it work and it's just not going to work?

Elaine:

Not supposed to be ours. It's not going to work the way They'll disappear.

Frank:

Yeah, trying to make it work and it's just not gonna work supposed to be ours gonna work the way they'll disappear yeah, the way I like talking to you, because the way that you make things sound is just everything's just brimming and pulsing with energy all the time and like um it is yeah, yeah, how many things yeah, what?

Lauren:

how are we? We're just like not as. A lot of us just aren't as aware, or like in tune. Well, we're paying attention. We're always talking about this being a lot of us just aren't as aware, or like in tune, or paying attention.

Frank:

We're always talking about this being a game of subtleties and like really picking up on it and like being aware of it, and that's where you start to like, unfold your, your, your, you know, your intuition is in paying attention to those subtle shifts and subtle changes in energy. But when you're talking to someone like you, who's like so so aware of it, it's so tangible to you, it's so fun to be like, it's a fun reminder for the the less open currently than people like me, where I'm like oh man, things are like that everywhere yeah, but that, that, yeah.

Lauren:

That just opened a whole like understanding for me in regards to like how we relate or interact with objects even around us, or clothing, where you're like I just for some reason, I just love this particular, I don't know why I just love this jacket, or I love this necklace or whatever it is, and then I don't really like that thing that much or, or for some reason, I I don't know why I ever bought it. Now I can't find it. That's an interesting thing too.

Elaine:

Like it was, it wasn't supposed to be mine isn't interesting have you ever gone shopping for something and you know the sizes are 12, 14, 16, whatever, and they're 10 of the exactly the same thing, but you'll try one on, but you'll reach for another one to buy it.

Lauren:

Yes.

Elaine:

You'll say, I don't want this one, but I want that one.

Lauren:

Yes.

Elaine:

And it's the same thing. It's the same material, same size same buttons, whatever. I can't tell you how many times I've done that.

Frank:

That is really interesting. I many times I've done that. That is really interesting and I've done that too. Yeah, also, this makes me think about the time that I bought that e-bike. I I really thought so we have a, we have a bike this is a weird anecdote, you know, making you listen to my bike story.

Elaine:

But I've, I bought that's okay, we're we, we're bikers.

Frank:

It's okay, harleys god, I wish my e-bike was a Harley. Anyway, I bought an e-bike off of some website. It was shipping over from China. This is pre-tariff and I really thought I'm like I want to go on family bike rides. Now, mind you, lauren does not like biking. She's not a bicyclist. I'm not comfortable on a bike. My daughter had just learned.

Frank:

I got a seat on the back of my bike for our youngest and I really wanted Lauren to go on a bike ride. I'm like if this were one of those pedal assist bikes, I know Lauren's going to get on it. Anyway, long story short, I spent weeks agonizing over which was the right one to get and I finally ordered it and it never came, and and like they didn't charge me for it or anything like that, but like I got the notifications it was oh, it's been shipped. Like I'm waiting for the updates. You know it's coming overseas, so it's going to take a little while. I kept I going to take a little while. I kept, I kept getting tracking information. It never came. They refunded it and everything, but come to realize now that lauren was never going to get on that bike I was never supposed to have that bike.

Lauren:

You were trying to make fetch happen.

Frank:

I was trying to make fetch happen and that's a mean, mean girls reference to the show. But, um, yeah, I mean that was just one small example of something like like the ouija board that left you like sometimes this is not going to happen. It's really interesting how many times like how much friction we cause in our lives trying to make a thing work and instead of like going with the flow and learning and adapting it seems like the way you're mentioning it it seems like a lot of things you will adapt to each other, you and your inanimate object that holds a particular energy, but some things won't.

Elaine:

But part of the learning process. I'm a big karma person and a learning person. I believe that everything that happens in our life teaches us and we teach it later.

Lauren:

Yes, that's why we have experiences.

Elaine:

We can share an experience. Maybe somebody can learn and go. Well, maybe I shouldn't climb on that mountain if I don't know what I'm doing. I need a different kind of boot for that walk, yeah, whatever. But but I really believe that everything and everybody that we touch and touches us is for a reason. Even if it's sharing a smile, I don't care. There's a karma, that we've a long list of karma that we're going to collect and that we're going to create, even if it's with a kindness or if we walk away because we ignored somebody that needed help and then later we are conscious, says you really should have helped. Okay, that's, we're learning what our level of consciousness is. Consideration is. So if it ever happens again, we can help that person, but we don't know whether we created karma with that person that we ignored or not.

Elaine:

Right you know what I'm saying.

Lauren:

Yeah.

Elaine:

So it's a little bit of both, but not getting a job. The business that closed down. You were done. You were done with all of those people. You loved it. You had your experiences. You got to share them. You can look back on them, enjoy them. Your trips to Hawaii, you know there was joy in your voice when you spoke about that, so there's. You might remember the food, the people you met, yay. So maybe someday you will go back to Hawaii and experience some of those same things. Take somebody with you that has never been there before, and that's what that's important. I'm a big people. I'm a. I'm an emotional and physical touchy. I believe in hugs and unless somebody that and I've known people that were non-touchable- yeah, yeah, okay.

Elaine:

That's okay, I can go hug hug and we're good. A couple of people like that, but I can respect that. But I've never asked any of them why not. Right A couple of people like that, yeah, but I can respect that, but I've never asked any of them. Why not Right? Right, I would not. It's none of my business, right, none. But I believe that everything we say, hear, smell, feel has its purpose. It's part of our journey.

Lauren:

Yeah.

Elaine:

And if we don't understand it at that moment, we don't need to, but we will take it on subconsciously and super subconsciously so that in any journey we take it's always there. It's always there and we can pull it up whenever we need it.

Lauren:

Yeah.

Elaine:

We don't have to keep it all up here. We can put it in those filing boxes called subconscious and super sub. Super sub doesn't need direction, it does it anyway. It's automatic.

Lauren:

Yeah.

Elaine:

It just does. But that also happens with what we don't need anymore.

Lauren:

As a psychic, as a practicing psychic and reader.

Elaine:

I don't want to and I don't need to remember everything about a client. So when they call 10 years later I can go oh yeah, no. But what I know, what I've noticed over the years, is that sometimes I carry that too far and I lose memory of what I do need to remember. And especially the older that I get.

Lauren:

I'm 80.

Frank:

So at 80 years old. You do not seem 80.

Elaine:

Yes, sir, I am.

Frank:

Wow, you're doing good.

Elaine:

Thank you, but I've had to train myself to go okay Lane, this is personal. You need to remember this.

Frank:

It's funny hearing that from you, though, because all the stories you've told us have seemed so lucid and, like you, have a very good memory.

Elaine:

They're part of my soul.

Frank:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're built in. You built them in.

Elaine:

Right when something it's not just a brain thing, it's a soul thing. Everything you touch, you eat, you smell it's in your soul. And you touch, you eat, you smell it's in your soul and and even if it wasn't important to you at the moment, it's still there. You can pull it up in your memory bank Now.

Elaine:

People who have dementia that doesn't mean, and my aunt I lived with my. I took care of my aunt when she, I think she was going through some of that. It was never diagnosed, but I think so, and we learned how to communicate with her when she was really having a bad episode. This was a woman who died at 103.

Lauren:

Wow.

Elaine:

When she was bedridden, I would hear her in her bedroom as though she was still on the train going to another event with three of her favorite people that she taught with. But to her it was that's where she was. She was on that train going someplace with her friends, and you'd hear, we'd hear her laugh, we'd hear her answer a question. She was reliving those days and she'd call out people's names. She was a teacher for over 70 years and she would. She would talk like she was talking to one of her classes.

Lauren:

Wow, that's.

Elaine:

Amazing, that's not a physical memory, that's a heart memory.

Lauren:

Yeah.

Elaine:

Things that she loved. I really believe all of that. I'm convinced that all of that is in there if it's important, or even if it isn't sometimes, if it's something we need to be weary of.

Frank:

Yes, so that's actually if we are going through our lives interacting with people and objects and the energies that they carry, and we are With people and objects and the energies that they carry and we are, like you said, we're collecting it as part of our life experience, as part of our conscious and subconscious.

Elaine:

Right.

Frank:

Something about your aunt that strikes me, because I have an aunt that's going through something similar right now, but it's not like. How do you make sure that your heart memories and that your heart space is full of the good stuff, your heart space is full of the good stuff you know? Like, how do you, how do you alchemize these daily experiences into a way where, like, if, if you know, if you're going to be, if you're going to be sitting bedridden and you're, you're that you're going to recall the time you're on a train with your favorite people, instead of something worse.

Elaine:

You know, I think two things. There is no guarantee.

Elaine:

Please accept that there is no guarantee of what your memory, or your heart memory will be. Number two, if it is part of your journey list, before you ever came back, it's there in your heart. Now don't equate heart with positive feelings or hurt feelings. It's the importance of either one of those that makes it a heart memory. If something was meant to hurt you so you would learn a lesson, it's in your heart. And if you're sitting or laying in bed and you have no control about what memory pops into brain, if that pops in, then it's an opportunity for you. If it's negative or positive, it's your opportunity to review it and learn from it. Or say to yourself I don't know why I went through that, but it's okay, I'll know later.

Elaine:

There should be absolutely no guilt about what you learned or you did not learn in a lifetime. Not everybody gets everything in the third grade that they'll need all the way through the 12th. You take it one grade, one step at a time, and that's what living life is all about One step at a time. We've all cried tears. We've all lost control over something the death of a parent, the love of someone that just slipped away from us or we threw them away for some reason, losses of jobs that were perfect, like your experience. But yet you knew there was something else. It wasn't enough. Because it wasn't enough? Because you were on a plan, and you knew it subconsciously to have more. I'm not going to say better, I'm going to say more of what you intended to learn from. Does that make sense?

Lauren:

Yes, yeah.

Elaine:

So you knew it. So in a way, you were kind of saying this is a great experience, but I'm going to push this away a little bit. So even if that company had not closed down, you would have ended up leaving.

Frank:

Yeah.

Elaine:

Probably been offered a great job, you would have taken it. Or you would have decided to open your own business at a perfect time, you would have taken it. They let you off the hook by closing down, that's true. The decision was made for you.

Elaine:

Now there are no guarantees about what memories will pop up. The memories that pop up will be the ones you are gifted, like her gifting herself with those joyful experiences, or they will be memories that maybe not so nice but you still needed to review, and then you can let it go because you will let it go.

Frank:

This is really interesting because it's making me feel like, even if you're like you know, mental faculties deteriorate some it seems like you could still maybe find a way to not have such a rigid mindset, because so many people go through their lives and they collect these bad experiences and they replay it, and they replay not only the bad experience but their reaction to that bad experience, and they're living in this pain. It sounds like the way I've never heard this before. It sounds like you're suggesting that maybe like hey, here's that situation again where you had an opportunity to learn like you can still learn now, like alchemize it, process it in the way that you needed to.

Elaine:

Yeah, we can, but not every brain is capable. You can have heart memories, but the brain is not wired to take care of it. Spirit is, and if we totally and completely let spirit teach us and listen, but not everybody was born with the ability to do that. That wasn't part of their journey. We have physical human experiences. For a reason we kill a cat, pull its head off why? Why Is it to teach the cat, who was a panther at one time and killed us? Was it between us? Or was that the beginning of a serial killer? Because that's what that life had decided they would do before they ever came back Now?

Elaine:

Perfect example is your situation in Cuba. Your parents went through a lot of cruelty just because of somebody's greed and ego. Right, they learned how not to behave that way with other people. They could have said he's a good example. He taught me how to steal. I'll never be hungry. Your folks had a choice. They chose not to be that way. They chose to come here, build a life, show compassion. Never repeat the same way that political leader lived, treated people. So your people brought joy here and hard work and became something opposite of what they left. That was their journey they may have talked about what happened in Cuba. Did they come through Florida?

Frank:

They came through Mexico actually.

Elaine:

Okay, well, the people that came through Cuba, I mean came from Cuba into Florida. They built a whole Cuban community.

Frank:

They did A lot of. My family has moved to Florida since because of that community.

Elaine:

Right. And they said Americans, you stay on your side of the street, we'll stay on ours for at least one full generation. Yeah, meanwhile building their restaurants, their businesses, learning to trust Americans, even though Americans were accepting of them, but still said are you terrorists? Yeah, you're bringing Castro? No, we don't think so. You could be, not what you're saying. So that trust had to be built and once it was, they actually started mingling, although there's still a Cuban community.

Frank:

Yes.

Elaine:

Who still doesn't trust. Frankly, I can't blame them, but it's getting better. It's taken a couple of generations now, but it's getting better. It's taking a couple of generations now, but it's getting better yeah but what can we as a community learn from their pain? How are we supposed to be treating those immigrants then, legal or otherwise? Some of them just washed ashore with nothing yeah, yeah.

Elaine:

That's it. So how do we take on that community and take care of them, trust them, which not everybody did, but we knew they needed something, even if it was just for the first month they were here. They needed a bath and food and shelter. And how did we help them?

Elaine:

That's a hard journey to take yes it's a really hard journey and I feel sorry for people that have to go through anything like that. It's still part of your trauma stuff that you were talking about a while ago. But the memories that your people or people that come from a different path what are their memories going to be like when they can't consciously, intentionally bring up a memory? Are they going to remember the food that they can never, ever get to taste exactly like it was in Cuba because they couldn't get the ingredients here? Maybe they can now, but I doubt that they could then.

Lauren:

Yeah right.

Elaine:

Different spices, different earth, that fruits and vegetables were grown in. So what do they remember when they start sitting and daydreaming and remember the roads that they walked or the people that they knew that they could no longer ever see again, those are the memories that would probably come up without difficulty. The ones that they don't want to remember are the ones that they had to go get in a boat and row fast or get on a plane and hope they wouldn't be kicked off, which happened occasionally. And those are the memories that we don't have any guarantee will ever go away. And when we have no conscious ability to say I don't want to remember that, go away, go away, yeah, because we've got dementia or you know whatever, we have to let those memories float and just pass and say, okay, what did I learn from that experience? Well, it happened to me. I didn't learn. I was just mean. Just mean.

Elaine:

I was a kid, I didn't deserve that. If you don't agree with past lives and you don't believe in you're here for lessons, then, yeah, you're going to have a lot of retained anger and fear. If, as an adult, you can say I'm not that child anymore. It helped me become the man, the woman that I am today and I don't have to be ugly because at five, six and seven I had to go through that. I didn't ask for that. I had to go through that. I didn't ask for that. Yeah, you did. If you live in a spiritual world, yeah, you did.

Elaine:

But you don't have to stay there, and even to this day I know adults that are still staying in that space.

Lauren:

Oh yeah.

Frank:

Yeah.

Lauren:

The choice to hold on to that animosity or that pain is a choice.

Elaine:

The experience, the story all of it, yeah, but I also have clients that have used that to go to get degrees in psychology to help people not get stuck.

Lauren:

Mm-hmm.

Elaine:

Or become fabulous chefs, so they can recreate that comfort food.

Frank:

Yeah.

Lauren:

Yeah, that's when we talk about turning trauma into wisdom for others.

Frank:

The transmutation.

Lauren:

Yeah, transmuting, that's part of my little coaching thing too. Do that Using my experiences to go like you don't have to come on. Did you say your little coaching thing? I have you don't have to come on. Like you know. Did you say your?

Frank:

little coaching, I did I didn't mean to say little. Gross.

Lauren:

Let me say that again. My coaching and empowerment, um business and workshops. To, yeah, bring people out of the trauma and into like it doesn't, you don't have to stay down there. Stay, you the trauma and into like it doesn't. You don't have to stay down there. Stay, you know, come on yeah.

Elaine:

You know, and the sad part is the reality is not everyone is capable of coming out of, is growing out of. But the good side of that is they had that experience, so now they can teach others how not to hurt people.

Lauren:

Right, yeah, or yeah.

Elaine:

Or be hurt. It's you know. To use an example, there are men and women who constantly go into the same relationships over and, over and over again. I don't care if one guy's the banker, the next one is the biker, the next one is a mechanic, the next one is a millionaire. They're all the same people. Yeah, they're going to get the crap out of you on Friday night.

Lauren:

Yeah, yeah.

Elaine:

Period, but yet we keep pulling. There's something about that energy. What is it? Or the guy who just treats every woman in his life like she's a queen and he keeps being? Drawn to these women that are going to be treated like a queen and you will never be able to give me a big enough dime yeah, you know that. And their heartbreaks, because we've all known that guy. He could. He just gets his heart broken by the same, the same person in a different body.

Lauren:

Yeah.

Elaine:

Why.

Lauren:

Yeah.

Elaine:

You know, and I've asked clients that why do you keep walking into this? You have to hit yourself over the head with this. I've done the same thing with women. Why you know this is going to happen. How many times in bones do you need to have broken before you see yourself as a stronger, more deserving person?

Lauren:

yeah, when will the lesson actually land and you like do something with it?

Frank:

yeah and if for no reason, just so that you don't when you're, when you're old and in bed, you're not just reliving this experience, you put yourself through a hundred times over.

Elaine:

Addicts do the same thing. All kinds of addicts, alcohol, drugs those are physical ailments. Don't misunderstand me. There is an illness there, but it can be a psychological mixed with a chemical illness. It can be any number of things. I have not lived that life so I don't feel like I can say too much about it. But I witness how people go through that and how they come out of it. I have several friends that I look at and go, wow, I knew you were so drunk, can stand up much less, put five sentences together and now they've got fabulous jobs, great educations, but they had to have that before they could do be successes. Yeah, and some of them break the chain of their lineage the first ones that didn't overdose, the first ones that didn't kill somebody when they were driving drunk or you know whatever. But it's all part of the journey, and I know I use that word a lot, but everything we do is part of a journey. How do you break a cycle? You have to learn it.

Elaine:

Some people observe it. You know, in my life my parents at both times were alcoholics at different times in their lives and I never liked the smell or taste of beer, it just blech. Just to this day, the only time I would ever drink a beer and I really didn't drink it was when we were in the middle of the lake on a very hot day and that was the only thing we had was Coors on ice and we didn't have bottled water.

Lauren:

Yeah.

Frank:

And listen. Let's be honest. The alcohol, the alcohol volume of Coors, is probably a hydrating at the end of the day.

Elaine:

Yeah, and I would usually chug about a half of it and hand it to somebody on the boat. You know, I mean that was it.

Lauren:

Yeah.

Elaine:

And and I never really cared about alcohol, like until I was in my mid 20s and I married an alcoholic. Well, I didn't know he was an alcoholic when I married him. Yeah, but he was, and once that was going for over I just walked away.

Lauren:

Yeah.

Elaine:

But I had to have that journey with that particular man to understand why my stepdad and my mom who they were. And then I was able to get a divorce and never look back and I was able to stop blaming my mom and my stepdad for who they were. Wow, I had to.

Lauren:

they were Wow.

Elaine:

I had to live it before I could do that.

Frank:

I mean, it's such an interesting point and I've been accused of being at risk of you know what. Taking 10 years to learn a 10-day lesson having, um, the thing that's been a big deal is like how many times do you have to repeat this thing for you to act, for it to land, for you to try something new, for you to for something to click? You know what I mean? And, and, yeah, I'm, I'm. I know lauren is too. We're trying to be so much more aware of of these cycles that we keep landing in yeah and like, and, and, while we're in it, if we've managed to put ourselves in it again, finding a new exit and making sure we don't come back to it.

Elaine:

But no, every time you do it, you're learning more. Yeah, yeah, and even if you get out of the cycle somewhere down the road there may be an opportunity. Call it a temptation.

Lauren:

Yeah.

Elaine:

So you look at it as I know better than to do that. But what did I not learn last time? So, before you go into the temptation, you give yourself enough time to think about the past.

Frank:

Yeah, make sense, sense, oh, it does I just encountered my first real big test for this current cycle. I'm in and I passed. I passed.

Elaine:

I did a good job, yeah we don't always know what's in that bundle there could be some new lesson and people will go. I gotta go find Find out what else.

Frank:

Right, yeah, then you're not done.

Elaine:

We do. Sometimes, once we're very, very aware, we do get the opportunity to draw a temptation on purpose. Just to see where our strengths and our weaknesses are. It's that okay, I'm going to a wedding. I I've been sober for 15 years, but I really want a sip of that champagne to celebrate. Yeah, I just want one sip which could send that person off on a junket they don't need right they can, they can, they can click a glass of non-alcoholic something and it's just as important.

Frank:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Frank:

So, I was just encountered with a situation where I knew someone at a good company the job. Then they're like, hey, I asked them about something entirely different and they're like, by the way, this position just opened and we think you'd be great for it and it pays exactly what you want. And also, um, like, literally it's. It was such a unique position that I'm like, oh, I've done this and I'd be, I could do this easily. It was I, I.

Frank:

It was tough Cause I had to look at Lauren, lauren, I know we're looking for more financial comfort right now, but I can't take this job because I'm going for something new and I've done this a hundred times through already and it never ends the way I wanted to and I get stuck and I have to relearn the lesson all over again.

Frank:

So, at, even though logically it was the wrong choice to make, I was like, well, this is funny, I'm, I'm letting go of a, a you know six figure job that I'm like would be a walk in the park for me. It was like I have to chase this authentic like creativity right now, and so, like I, I, what I did was actually made a proposal. I said I don't want to do it the way you're saying it, but I will say I will do this much so finding out like how much of how much of that is appropriate for me. So for me, in particular, it was. I need to break out of the confines of like working in a traditional structure and I offered my services as a contractor, on my terms.

Elaine:

And yeah, yeah, yeah Well.

Frank:

I mean. I mean, I haven't heard back, so maybe not, but you know.

Lauren:

However, it's valuing yourself in a different, in a whole different category, as opposed to what the. The other thing that you always did was I'm going to work for someone else. They're going to tell me exactly what to do. It's going to take up all of my time. It's going to make me like kind of miserable, yeah, and I'm not going to be aligned. Someone else. They're going to tell me exactly what to do. It's going to take up all of my time. It's going to make me like kind of miserable and I'm not going to be aligned with what I'm actually supposed to be doing.

Frank:

Right, I cannot step into that traditional structure anymore unless it's on my terms, yeah, and even if that's, even if that it doesn't work out, it's like that's a If the payoff is holding on to my own values and staying in the space where I can become who I want to become.

Elaine:

You said something earlier about learning your worth.

Lauren:

Yes.

Elaine:

I think you've already learned your worth.

Frank:

Yeah, I think I finally just got this, but it took me too long. I mean, it took as long as it's going to take. But I think if I were more in this space of being more receptive and seeing how life lessons come at you, instead of just feeling like everything is chaotic and things don't have as much meaning as I've given them now, I think I could have learned this sooner, but now you know.

Elaine:

You weren't supposed to, I wasn't supposed to this.

Frank:

There was a little bit of there's a value in, in, in the struggle. Struggle only in that I can now so quickly identify it since hindsight's 2020. Right, I see all the times I've made the mistake, and this was the time where I went oh what was I doing? I get it now, you know. So yeah, that's these little. I think I graduated. I think I graduated and I'm on to the next lesson.

Elaine:

Every lesson, every level. I don't even like that word because I look at them as lessons rather than levels. But people understand the word level, yeah Right, and they're afraid of lessons at them as lessons rather than levels. But people understand the word level, yeah Right, and they're afraid of lessons. So well, go learn your lesson. You know, that's how a lot of us equate the word lesson.

Lauren:

Yeah, yeah.

Elaine:

But when somebody is asking for what the two of you have been asking of your guest, teach us so we can share it with who's listening. You really have already put yourself in the position of teachers and mentors.

Frank:

That's true, yeah.

Elaine:

And yet you're not looking at yourselves in that way.

Lauren:

But that's also true, yeah.

Elaine:

You're mentoring without ever using that word mentor by what you're exposing your public to your listeners, to that's true.

Lauren:

Yeah, we don't, we don't, so take it that category.

Frank:

That is a good point.

Lauren:

Take it.

Frank:

I always take that Thank you, especially because there's no way around it. I am an anti-authoritarian person and putting myself in this position where you can learn from me not by me telling you, but by you observing me and doing it publicly and being okay with being an open book and with sharing my vulnerabilities, it's allowing people to walk beside me as we explore things together. This is a anti a anti hierarchical mentorship.

Lauren:

I like that. That's good.

Frank:

I hope so.

Elaine:

Well, you're going to be doing this for quite a while, so you've already got 70, 70 plus episodes.

Frank:

So yeah, and I'm having too much fun talking to people like you. You're amazing.

Elaine:

Yeah, it's been fun. It really has. I was looking. I've been looking forward to this, thank you.

Frank:

Elaine, tell everybody where to find you and what your current services are, and please plug yourself.

Elaine:

Please plug myself, oh, dear. Conversation with the Ancients podcast, and the subline is A Journey with Elaine Ireland journey with Elaine Ireland. It is a composite of people that have been in the business for the business of psychic work for oh, one of them already 50, 60 years, and I do have them classified but that's a loose classification like newbies, the ones that have been doing it at their home for 10 years, but now they're coming out, yeah, all the way to established folks that are doing it on a full time basis, to people that are legends who have passed on. Let's see, I do readings private. I do not do Zoom readings folks. I'm sorry I can't do this business.

Elaine:

My head's going up and down between the cards, anyway, but I teach classes Tarot classes ours, anyway, but I teach classes, tarot classes. I've been instructed by my spiritual guides that my classes are now going to be a lot more in-depth and longer. They'll be 12 months to 16 months, once a week, probably two or three hours a week, and presentation will be pretty much what I've always been doing, but just really more in depth. Those are, those are. You can find me on Facebook and I still do some mentoring Not as much as I used to, but, but I do. It depends on what people need, so that's it.

Frank:

Oh man. Well, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for spending this much time with us, I think. I think you're officially our longest interview.

Lauren:

Yeah, are we?

Elaine:

I would think so too. Now we can talk easily with one another. That's great.

Frank:

Yeah, yeah, this is going to be fantastic.

Elaine:

It's been fun and it's been an honor to be on the podcast.

Frank:

Y'all are doing a great service here. Thank you for listening. Visit clairevoyagingcom for merchandise or to access free resources to help you on your spiritual journey. Subscribe to our Patreon for more content or join for free to chat with us. Claire Voyaging is a fiscally sponsored project of Fractured Atlas, a 501c3 charity. Make a tax-deductible donation to support our mission to foster understanding, respect and curiosity for diverse spiritual belief systems. Claire Voyaging is a production of Wayfeather Media.

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Frank A. Leon

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Lauren Leon

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