079: Travelogue // Thinking Outside the Shoebox

Have you ever held onto something just because it felt tied to a memory you didn’t want to lose? In this Travelogue episode, we reflect on the emotional layers of our recent move—from the chaos of downsizing to the unexpected grief and clarity that surfaced while packing up a life. Lauren shares a powerful moment of release sparked by a long-lost letter, arriving just when she needed it most.

Frank opens up about the strange limbo that followed: the part no one talks about, when you’ve landed somewhere new but your spirit hasn’t quite caught up. With our spiritual routines disrupted and emotions raw, we turned to our intuitive friend Emily Bolcik, whose tarot reading brought much-needed insight and grounding.

This episode is a reminder that growth doesn’t always look graceful—and that the real transformation often happens in the messy middle. If you’re navigating change or feeling unmoored, this one’s for you.

Clairvoyaging is now a fiscally sponsored project of Fractured Atlas, a 501(c)(3) charity, so any donations are now tax deductible. If you’d like to support our projects that aim to foster understanding for diverse spiritual belief systems, visit www.clairvoyaging.com/support. 

Chapters

• 0:40 Welcome back to Claire Voyaging
• 3:52 Documenting our journey to San Diego
• 8:51 Lauren's revelation about releasing the past
• 14:55 Frank's struggle with adapting to change
• 19:26 Tarot reading with Emily: Facing reality
• 28:33 Making peace with discomfort and change

Transcript

Lauren: 0:21

Hello you lovely souls covered in bones and guts. We're back, baby. Today's episode is a travelogue where we share some stories and insights from the last month and a half. I'm Lauren Leon.

Frank: 0:34

And I'm still Frank.

Lauren: 0:36

We are a married couple learning how to develop our own intuition, and this is episode 79 of claire voyaging. Wayfeather media presents claire voyaging what's going on? Oh my goodness guys, did you miss us? We missed you, I missed you. Frank, did you miss me? We'll circle back to that because we have have been together nonstop every moment of every day. How cute are we Hi, yay, hi, we're settled in.

Frank: 1:36

Settling.

Lauren: 1:37

We're settling. Still in the midst of settling.

Frank: 1:39

There's a little dust. There's still a little dust, still some dust. The dust will settle. There's a little dust. There's still a little dust, still some dust, the dust will settle, but we wanted to.

Lauren: 1:47

This is a travelogue episode. We say it all the time. We're writers and we enjoy a good story, so our storytelling episodes are what we call travelogues, because we're traveling through the clairs. We're clairvoyaging Right right Frank. That's a great name for a podcast. We're Claire Voyaging Right Right Frank.

Frank: 2:06

That's a great name for a podcast. We should try that.

Lauren: 2:09

But before we get to our episode, I want to tell you we have a few new Patreon friends.

Frank: 2:16

No, we don't.

Lauren: 2:17

Yes, we do, diane, Diane and Jen Jen.

Frank: 2:29

Thank you, welcome and thanks for joining. Welcome to it. Hey, you know what? We do need to put some new stuff up on our, our patreon well, we still have a listener, a pending listener, episode we do.

Lauren: 2:37

Yeah, I'm sorry that took a long time to get out sweet and sweet and just probably waiting for her episode to drop.

Frank: 2:45

She does not call herself Sweet Anne we call her Sweet Anne.

Lauren: 2:49

No, she's like a mystic.

Frank: 2:50

She is a mystic.

Lauren: 2:52

She's so great, Hi. Anne Love it, and anyway that's going to be coming.

Frank: 2:58

The episode is coming. That one's on me.

Lauren: 3:03

Also just a quick note Before our documentary campaign ended, we got a donation from Patricia Patricia. Thank you, patricia.

Frank: 3:14

Wow, Patty, you don't like Patty do you.

Lauren: 3:17

We don't know if Patricia likes Patty I'm so sorry, I took that swing. We still have some fundraising to do for our documentary, but we'll keep you in the loop for that One thing at a time.

Frank: 3:29

Don't worry, it's happening.

Lauren: 3:30

It's happening. Also, thank you to our friend Kimberly who gave us a quick little encouragement on TikTok. She sent me a message and it was very sweet. She was like I hope you're still doing the documentary because the world needs to hear your message.

Frank: 3:44

I always love hearing from Kimberly.

Lauren: 3:45

Yeah, just so sweet. Anyway, thank you guys for your patience and I hope you like this episode. It was kind of a healing thing to write sort of a nice like wrap up and a way to think about what I what kind of moved me to this and through this move. So it was nice. I had some tears you might hear me get a little choked up during part of it.

Frank: 4:13

Every time we were like oh hey, lauren, how's it going with your piece? I'd look around, I'd turn around and she was weeping. Okay, you know, I'm going to talk to you later.

Lauren: 4:22

I think he walked in and he had like groceries and he's like are you going to? Help me put these away. And I had tears streaming down my face and he's like nevermind.

Frank: 4:30

I had a question about hot links. I had a question about hot links and she was crying. I'm like okay later, okay, okay Also, like you know something to talk, like something to mention about writing in particular. You, you know something to talk, like something to mention about writing in particular. You know how some people say that, like, the final stage of learning something is teaching it. Yeah, so, like, just so, you know, we don't have our shit together, but when we write stuff, it helps us process things. It helps us, like, put it into a form, a format that's, like you know, easily digestible, and that's not just digestible for people listening to a podcast, it's for us too.

Lauren: 5:05

Yeah, we. It helps you to make meaning out of what you've just experienced.

Frank: 5:09

Yeah, so, like you know that, if anything that goes towards like y'all should be journaling, I guess if, if you need to process some stuff, it helps me, I forget to do it.

Lauren: 5:19

Yeah.

Frank: 5:19

And then I start writing. I'm like I don't know what to write. I don't know. And then I'm like, oh, wait, hold on. I have so many in-depth things to say, I'm so deep, you wouldn't get it.

Lauren: 5:32

That's kind of my problem with journaling sometimes, because I either have to go completely like stream of consciousness, like like I am using my pencil and I'm writing with this now, or I sit there and like work through my words, because I'm better with writing than I am with speaking. So yeah, I need I need time to kind of process what I want to say and what something means to me.

Frank: 5:55

Yeah, I always like. I always like what you write Whenever. Whenever Lauren writes something for the show she's like can I read it to you? I'm like what you write, oh, thank you. Whenever Lauren writes something for the show she's like can I read it to you? I'm like nope, I want to listen to it afterwards Because then I get to appreciate it like a listener. The first listener, listener number one baby.

Lauren: 6:13

That's very sweet. I didn't know. That's why you didn't want to read it.

Frank: 6:16

I'm so sweet guys.

Lauren: 6:22

I get some nice little tidbits from Frank every so often. He gives me. He gives me he doesn't want to do too much, he doesn't like to go overboard with the words Spoken like a woman starved for more attention.

Frank: 6:33

That's fine. Hey, I have my love language. I think it's mostly in the form of like cheese omelets. It's okay.

Lauren: 6:40

You did make me a good breakfast breakfast taco this morning that shit slapped yeah, yeah anyway, I used those hot links.

Frank: 6:49

All right, let's get to us. So today with us this week is me and her and me and a special guest, friend of the show yeah, fun little, fun little uh.

Lauren: 7:00

What little uh, what's it called?

Frank: 7:02

Cameo.

Lauren: 7:02

Yeah, sure A cameo or an insert is what I was thinking. There's an insert in there with a friend All right, lauren, send it.

Lauren: 7:11

Twinkle, twinkle hearts and stars. If you listen to this podcast regularly, you know that we recently made a move to San Diego. We've been talking about it ad nauseum Recovering people pleaser Lauren would apologize for talking about it so much but healed Lauren does not apologize for nothing, because talking about big changes and taking risks just might encourage or inspire someone else to take a giant leap of faith. Anywho, I've learned some things and I want to share. Frank and I made the decision to downsize from a three-bedroom house to a two-bedroom townhouse. We realized that with a little too much space we become easily overwhelmed with stuff. I'm the type of person who creates doom piles in each room of a house. If something doesn't have a place, I put it in a little pile, mostly because it's too difficult for me to deal with in that moment, so I put it off for another day. Side note I have not been officially diagnosed with ADHD, but I relate to many most of the symptoms, including procrastination and difficulty with executive function. So just a little bit of fun trivia about me. My doom piles and any household clutter actually make me feel quite stressed. So while preparing for this move, I started getting rid of a lot of stuff. I conjured my inner Marie Kondo and started letting go of things that do not bring me joy. It's so freeing.

Lauren: 8:47

During this process I came upon a few boxes that I've held onto for years Okay, decades, but who's counting Three boxes labeled Lauren's Keepsakes. It's a treasure trove of pins, stickers that meant something to me when I was nine years old troll dolls, broadway playbills, my collection of Pez dispensers, an unopened Baywatch, barbie dolphin included, my elementary art and poems and letters, a shoebox full of letters. As I sorted these items, I had a breakthrough moment where I realized that I was holding on to trinkets and in many cases literal junk, because it was attached to a memory and my guilt was telling me that if I got rid of anything I'd be disregarding, disrespecting or forgetting my precious memories. But some of these items were attached to kind of sad memories. They held energy that I've worked hard to heal these last few years. A tiny stuffed bear that meant so much to me as a 10-year-old little girl was now a tiny relic of trauma and pain. I gave myself permission to let go. My three boxes of keepsakes was slimming down to just one box, and that release of energy was electric, something I found much harder to deal with.

Lauren: 10:04

For some reason was this shoebox full of letters and notes that I mentioned? They were from middle school and high school. Messages from friends filled with overly dramatic stories, intense, emotional letters from my first boyfriend, who lived in a different city. Incidentally, did you know that after 10th grade I moved from LA to San Diego with my parents? I actually lived in San Diego for eight years before moving back to LA to pursue music. So this was a strange feeling, prepping to move this time to San Diego, while reading old letters from my friends who wrote about missing me once I moved to my San Diego high school. I have no real insight on that in particular, but if I did, it would maybe be something about it being a full circle moment or doing this move differently and, on my own terms, just another layer of releasing old energy and reframing this move in an entirely different way. Move in an entirely different way. Anyway, these letters, this packed shoebox full of letters.

Lauren: 11:06

I've dutifully and responsibly held onto these letters for 25 years. For what I really had to sit with this. I used to think that maybe my kids would one day want to read through old letters and learn a bit more about my life, or that I'd want to sit down with a cup of hot cocoa by a fireplace and read a hundred letters and notes. No, these letters paint a picture of my past, sure, but they were only meaningful to me. They don't even make sense to anyone else and they no longer represent who I am now. The stories and emotions and, quite frankly, the drama, helped me become the woman I am today, and for that I'm incredibly grateful. But I made a decision to root myself in the now, so there was no longer a need to keep this box. Let me tell you that was a revelation and almost, if I'm being totally honest, a bit panic-inducing, because I told myself for so long that I had to hold on to them, but this would have meant holding on to an energy that was no longer mine. So I said a little thank you to this box and to my inner child, who led me to be the person I am now.

Lauren: 12:24

And as I sifted through this box, while nervously tossing out batches of letters at a time, I found one that stood out. It was from my brother, ian. He wrote me a letter for my 17th birthday when he was 20. Birthday when he was 20. I hadn't even seen this letter in 26 years, and yet his words are powerful, timeless and present. In addition to making fun of me with inside jokes, as only a big brother can, he also said this my baby sister is 17.

Lauren: 12:58

I have sat back and watched you become the perfect woman I always knew you could be. I'm always going to think of you as my best friend because through all we've been through, it's always been me and you. I just want you to know that whatever you do in life, you will be a success and I will always be the one who will support you all the way. I hope you have a wonderful birthday. I would also like to say thank you for keeping me company all these years. I love you more than you could ever understand. Love, always and forever. Ian the Great.

Lauren: 13:34

His sweet words were like a warm hug. His loving, comforting message immediately grounded me in the present during a time when I was trying to release the past. It validated our deep connection and reminded me that he's with me in everything I do. It was the most powerful sign that told me you got this. That whole week was a huge shift for me. I gave myself permission to physically and emotionally let go of old items I was holding onto and to root myself in the now, which helped me with the transition of moving out of our house and onto this new adventure. And I sold my entire Pez dispenser collection to a neighbor at our yard sale who apparently owns a little Disneyland monorail with Pez dispenser passengers. So it was a win-win for everybody.

Frank: 14:32

Unlike Lauren, I was more than happy to inherit a minimalist mindset and get rid of yesteryear's mementos, like my shoebox full of ex-girlfriend stuff. I saved the nice things but like 90% of it was junk I never wanted to see again. It was literal baggage I'd been carrying around for literally decades. I bid it all a sweet sayonara and made way for some fresh stories in a fresh place. This new story started, like most great stories. One day we were living in our beautiful, very comfortable home that had everything we needed, but something terrible happened, something that always spells disaster or, at the very least, upheaval. We wanted something. We wanted something different. It's very safe to keep doing the same thing every day. It's even great to some people, because if you keep doing the same thing, you keep getting the same results. The same results started to bore us. Being the spiritually aware people that we are, we told ourselves it'll get better and we need to be the change that we want to see. But that didn't do it either.

Frank: 15:36

I think one of the bravest things you can do is take a good hard look at your life sometimes and really truly see it and recognize the things that you don't like about it, and then take it one step further and be your own catalyst for change. It's easier said than done, but it's important to do on occasion. The scary thing is that it feels dangerous. You don't know what that change might bring, but if you did know, it would also remove the adventure, and adventure is the antidote to boredom and depression. So here we are now, moved people Just a few hours away from Ventura County to San Diego County, but our environment is now absolutely thrilling. If you ask me, it's the polar opposite of where we were. And as for me glad you asked, I'm so different.

Frank: 16:24

Now the second I moved here, I just got a seven-figure job for just being myself. My crossfit routine is sick. I actually typed out the story using only my abs. I taught them home row keys and everything Okay. So no, I'm still purposefully unemployed and I still only have one single substantial dad ab. Those aren't the only things that I brought with me, though.

Frank: 16:50

I also accidentally packed my overactive mind, my uncertainty about what my next move is my doubts about my value as a human and a small side of existential dread. I anticipated most of those stowaways, but the thing I didn't anticipate was my sudden lack of patience. I've been focused on the move, getting my head on straight about the change and then getting my belongings unpacked and in order. I 100% forgot to build in a grace period to allow those big changes to come in. They haven't gotten here yet. When we make any big changes, we need to give ourselves time to adapt. Lauren and I spent so much time talking about it and spiritually preparing for leaving and I never once thought about spiritually preparing for arriving. I wanted to hit the ground running. I thought maybe there's a chance. Everything becomes clear for me the second I get to that new place. I hoped for that, but I didn't think about what happens to me emotionally when I finally close out the moving process and then suddenly only have myself to focus on.

Frank: 17:53

I spent the last 20 months since being let go at my job staying open to possibilities, which evolved into a location change. That became the main thing and now I'm here and simply wildly available. That sounds nice, I'm sure, but have you ever kept a terrier inside the house for too long without a normal routine. If you have, then you no longer have nice furniture. In this situation, my brain is the terrier, and let's say that I have to schedule a visit to Bob's Discount Furniture Store.

Frank: 18:26

I'm a bit of a mess right now and you know that's okay, I'm fine, but I haven't been giving myself time or the grace to exercise those spiritual tools that we've built during the course of clear voyaging. So I haven't been meditating, I haven't been using tarot and I love tarot I haven't been sitting in the power, I've just been in survival and it honestly feels like shit. I still feel confident about this change, so why don't I feel good? It's because of this To talk about this a little bit more. We chatted with friend of the show, emily Bolzik how are you guys connecting with your intuition regularly?

Lauren: 19:07

I think I'm using my intuition, even in this like phase that I'm in, where I'm, so I'm like I have not pulled a tarot card myself for a while. I'm like struggling with just I'm not, I'm not like, oh, I gotta get through every day. I'm struggling just to like I've got things to maintain and like do um, but so I think I'm using, I think I'm just paying attention, keeping like the synchronicities and like signs in mind and paying attention Like okay, this little thing happened which is still keeping me on my path of like this huge decision that we made for us and our family, and knowing like y'all, you're still on, you're still with me, my guides are still with me I mean, the truth is that, like for me, and I feel like for you too, lauren, we've been on like, um, it's been survival mode.

Frank: 20:14

Well, actually, I was just telling you about, about this yeah I was telling Lauren I'm still kind of in survival mode, how are you doing?

Lauren: 20:19

She's like I'm kind of settled again and then I say I'm getting through each day, which is, yeah, basically survival mode. I'm not like, yeah, I don't have my routine down, I don't have that downtime of like, okay, in the morning I'm going to wake up and meditate and I'm going to go on a nature walk so that I can commune with my guides and, like you know, wait for a sign or whatever, pull a tarot card. Let's talk about it.

Frank: 20:48

We don't have. We haven't had that kind of time To clearly answer your question. We've been doing a shit job. I've been doing a shit job at that. So the last I left off with tarot. I pulled tarot a few times during our road trip before the move, but like last I left off off, really it was like okay, do your work, get your stuff in order, like clean your house, all that stuff. And then it was like you can also when we're on the road trip. I pulled a couple cards. All of them are like you can have nice things too. And I'll be honest, like I was gonna say, I'm kind of afraid to pull cards now because I don't know. I almost feel like I don't have any context in which to read into these things, because so much of what I'm about to. I'm like a fucking blank slate here as far as my schedule goes, as far as what the future holds. The kids aren't even in school yet.

Speaker 3: 21:32

They're starting school in August, so it's just like, but I think you can trust spirit to give you a message that will resonate I think you are correct in saying that wait, are you currently shuffling?

Frank: 21:43

I hear a shuffle it. I thought you were shuffling sticks of gum for a second. So I mean sorry, sorry slices slices, slices.

Lauren: 21:53

Can you pull a slice? Wait you, you're shoving slices right now.

Speaker 3: 21:57

Give me the piece of gum meant for me.

Frank: 22:01

I got the Thor of Bubble Yum.

Speaker 3: 22:06

Guides. We're looking for some guidance for Frank and go easy on the guy, okay.

Lauren: 22:15

Go easy on the guy.

Speaker 3: 22:24

He's had a rough go of it. The guy's got a family. Come on, I got your pipes, so I pull a bunch of cards, I pull whatever slips out, and then I put my hand over them and if I feel, if I'm like, oh, I think it's this one wait.

Frank: 22:36

That's such a fun. How have we never talked about your method here?

Speaker 3: 22:41

cause I'm shy 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 of cups upright.

Lauren: 22:49

Emily has Fearless Tarot from.

Frank: 22:52

Elliot Oracle. Dr Elliot Adam the same book that I have right here on my desk.

Speaker 3: 23:00

Seven of Cups represents dreams, illusions and wishes. It is imaginative and fantastical. However, it is not a card of realities. Frank oh my God, it said Some people waste years stuck on the lessons of this card. If I win the lottery, think of everything I'm going to buy. One day I'll get lucky when my ship comes in and my problems will be solved. Many times, this sort of thinking is an avoidance mechanism for taking responsibility for your life.

Frank: 23:26

Keep going.

Speaker 3: 23:27

It dazzles. I just feel defensive of you. I'm like maybe I didn't pick this one, no, go there.

Speaker 3: 23:32

Seven of Cups is also a card of forgetfulness. It dazzles us with castles in the air, causing us to ignore the present reality. What crutches do you use to evade reality? This fear of failure, disappointing others or looking like a loser keep you from making necessary changes. Do you lack enough confidence in yourself to get the ball rolling, Frank? Oh, my god, it happened again.

Speaker 3: 23:54

The figure emerging from the central cup is shrouded. Her arms are open to all possibilities. However, this figure is not controlling things. She is open to whichever wind blows. This is not always a good recipe for getting something accomplished. There is another cup with a wreath of victory emerging from it. If you look closely, it appears that there is a skull pictured on this cup, a symbol for irreversible change. This could represent a fear of success. It appears that there is a skull pictured on this cup, a symbol for irreversible change. This could represent a fear of success, since achieving your goal would change all your existing structures. All the cups have different symbols emerging from them. Some are fantastical, while others are frightening. They are the bright and shiny objects that can distract you on the path toward your goal. The Seven of Cups requires you to focus, to bring your inner visions into the outer world.

Lauren: 24:38

That's pretty interesting, for, exactly like what you were just saying, that you don't have a as soon as you're done like putting together the house, you're not going to have a solid structure?

Frank: 24:51

No, and literally, like I've noticed that the thing that's affecting more than anything is my self-esteem, something that I don't usually struggle with because I have a healthy sense of, like, who I am and what I do and what I can do. But being in a phase right now where I'm literally doing nothing or about to, and I can do a lot, it's like, oh shit, like I'm starting to feel really bad about myself. Like really bad about myself because I know I can do a bunch of shit.

Speaker 3: 25:19

So I wonder if Wait, this next paragraph can I just read?

Frank: 25:23

one more.

Speaker 3: 25:23

Oh, yeah, go it's kind of good um by uh. Theodore roosevelt had a famous code he lived by get action. By initiating action putting out the resumes, meeting with experts, taking risks, reaching out, asking questions, learning a new skill a magical thing starts to happen. Momentum begins and things start to fall into place. Hope is rekindled about the future. Your dreams begin to manifest okay.

Frank: 25:46

So I also interesting I also feel like I am momentumless right now, but at a, at a, the, at a place where, like it feels like the um, what do you call it? Like the beginning of, like the starting line of like a race. You know what I mean, but I'm not, I'm not doing any a race right now, but I can. So it's. It's really a weird feeling. It's like oh, I'm on the track, but why am I not running kind of thing. So, like that whole bit about like taking responsibility, like I will take responsibility for that.

Frank: 26:19

I've been very busy and letting that be the thing that like takes up my, my time, which, you know, some of that needs to get done, but I'm about, I'm about done to a place where, like the rest of it, we can, we can wrap up like you know, uh, like after, after, at the end of the day, or like on the weekends or whatever. Yeah, in fact, I think we might've just achieved that, maybe today. So, yeah, I probably should start like looking into some shit. But and and the other thing that that did bring up too is I do have that sense of, well, whatever I get into into now, if it picks up like the trajectory is going to be such a new trajectory, one that I have never done before, that I am kind of nervous. I don't know what that looks like. Yeah, and not working in an office or something it's, it's going to be totally different.

Speaker 3: 27:07

I don't know if that looks like yeah, and Not working in an office or something. It's going to be totally different.

Frank: 27:11

Totally different. I don't know. If it was like, oh, now it's time to get a job or whatever, like something I've been used to, I'd be like, yeah, whatever, you know what that looks like, yeah, I wouldn't even trip about it, aside the fact that I would know that within a couple of years, or less than a year, I would be absolutely miserable.

Speaker 3: 27:33

But doing something in my own you know, on my own now is it's scary I'm also hearing like your uh internal alarm is going off a little bit in a in a nice way like some something's alerting you like oh, there's too much shit in our room.

Speaker 3: 27:49

I don't like you're catching it yeah, in time to make a change yeah, yeah, yeah well, something that's coming to mind, frank, is like that bashar thing of um, even if, if you have a couple choices and one of them is even a little more exciting than the other, do that one, like the barometer, is your own excitement.

Frank: 28:13

So there it is. It's time to make some baby steps. It's time now. I've told myself as a matter of principle that I will become a Reiki practitioner, even if I'm not 100% confident about it, because it's time to just deliver on something and learn and try something new. Take that first step. It's my responsibility. I have chosen to do this, something entirely new and uncharted for me because the old thing was not working. I'm relearning what it means to work, because my former definition of what that meant was toxic and came at a detriment to my own well-being, and in fact kind of believed that meant was toxic and came at a detriment to my own well-being and in fact kind of believed that there was some valor to that. And it's not true. Yeah, there was a fleeting hope that, upon arriving to this new place, a surprise opportunity would be dropped into my lap and within a week's time I'd be using a money bag a la Scrooge McDuck to anchor my yacht, which would be lovingly named Bezos Can Suck a Bag of Trash. But even then I'd end up making that toxic. Somehow I'd find a way to work to my detriment or lose myself in the project and forget to live the life I wanted Terrier shit. Friends.

Frank: 29:24

When we're in the midst of deep change, it's okay for the daily spiritual practices that we all rely on to move into muscle memory for a little bit, and you don't have to feel guilty about it. When we make changes, we need to give ourselves the time to move through that discomfort. Just because you might be experiencing upheaval, voluntarily or not, in a less than graceful way, does not make you less of a badass, or not in a less than graceful way does not make you less of a badass. Sometimes the most you can do is try to keep your cool and not say things you'll regret later, and even that can be a tall order. The discomfort is where the actual badassery comes from just getting through it, and not even in a cool way. Rarely is turmoil the place for kumbaya. It's blood, sweat and tears, all of which I personally spent on this journey. For me, my calm, badass self has yet to arrive. So kumbaya, y'all are gonna have to wait a little bit longer to hear from that jerk. In the meantime, I'm still just our self-deputized struggler-in-chief, but I just feel a little bit better about the odds. I hope you guys use this to encourage yourself to do the hard thing, so you feel just a little bit better about the odds too. Thank you for listening.

Frank: 30:39

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