[UNLOCKED] Patreon Episode // Listener Episode: In the Flow of Becoming with WiSH

In this deeply moving conversation, we're joined by our listener WiSH, who shares their evolution from a Baptist upbringing to discovering authentic spiritual connection through their queer identity.

Raised by a single mother and grandmother in a household with both nurturing feminine energy and strong masculine drive, Wish always sensed energies intensely. As an empath navigating religious spaces that condemned their emerging queerness, they faced the painful contradiction of feeling God's presence while being told they weren't enough. College became their spiritual laboratory—a place to explore astrology, meet others with psychic abilities, and eventually have direct spiritual experiences that cracked open their perception.

What makes this conversation particularly valuable is Wish's honest portrayal of finding purpose through listening to their intuition. Their story beautifully illustrates how spirituality, gender, and healing are interwoven in ways Western culture often fails to recognize.

Whether you're questioning your spiritual inheritance or seeking to understand how grief can transform your perception, Wish's journey offers a refreshing perspective on building a sustainable spiritual practice that embraces both struggle and wonder. 

Clairvoyaging is now a fiscally sponsored project of Fractured Atlas, a 501(c)(3) charity, so any donations are now tax deductible. If you’d like to support our projects that aim to foster understanding for diverse spiritual belief systems, visit www.clairvoyaging.com/support. 

Chapters

• 0:46 Introducing Wish's Spiritual Journey
• 3:39 Growing Up Between Masculine and Feminine
• 9:04 Breaking Free from Religious Constraints
• 16:52 College Explorations and Psychedelic Encounters
• 29:54 The Owl Messenger and Mother's Passing
• 43:18 Finding Purpose in Energy Healing
• 54:34 Building a New Future and Final Reflections

Transcript

Lauren: 0:27

William, also known as Wish, thank you for joining us on this special episode, this listener episode. We're happy to have you with us. So you told us a little bit about your backstory through email, but can you, can you tell us what's your story? What you're going through lately.

WiSH: 0:49

Yeah, this is a. Uh, how do I begin? I actually wrote this down so I could have like have more of a story, but, great, I didn't write down how to introduce it. Write down how to introduce it. Um, well, I can start with. I am a 27 year old, um midwestern human being just moving through life. Um, I feel like my story isn't like very special, but it's uniquely mine and it's special, thank you. Um, it just feels. I feel like my journey through spirituality has been kind of um, what do I say? It feels like magically mundane, if that makes sense.

WiSH: 1:43

You know, I got to, life in general has always been like magical for me, but I haven't always like recognized it as that. Um, yeah, especially like as a kid. Um, growing up I've always kind of been like quiet, shy, sensitive um, and my mom would always say that I was like the sweetest kid. Um, and I feel like that like that for me when I hear that I'm like okay, so I've always been like a sensitive person. Um, like in like energy in general. It's been like a sensitive being just trying to like bring like peace and joy everywhere around me. I was always like the one that tried to make people laugh. I was very like I keep saying sensitive, but like that's a good word for it To like negative energy, negative people around me. Um, and I feel like my upbringing, like when I look back now it all makes sense. Um, yeah, I'm so sorry. I'm kind of stumped on what to even say.

Lauren: 2:59

Oh, no, you're good, no, you're fine yeah.

WiSH: 3:01

Okay, thank y'all. Y'all are so supportive. You're good. No, you're fine, yeah okay, thank y'all.

Lauren: 3:06

Y'all are so supportive in regards you have a. You really do have like a great, like warm, sweet energy to you.

WiSH: 3:14

So your mom is right thank you, yeah, um, yeah, with. I kind of. I grew up with my mom and my grandma, so I got a lot of especially for my mom a lot of maternal nurturing energy. Both her and my grandma were go-getters. My mom was a single mom raising two kids, and she worked to sustain our whole household.

Lauren: 3:40

Yeah, amazing.

WiSH: 3:42

Yeah, I'm like, how did you have two kids work all the time, buy a house like that? I'm in now. Um, so, both her and my grandma, who was like who is, um, she lives here now with me. She was like part of like the East St Louis city board, um, yeah, and she would, from what I'm'm hearing, like she would do most of like the work, like a lot of people kind of like play around, but she was always there to work, do the thing. So I would say like she really builds up a great foundation for like all her kids and all her grandkids. Um, yeah, we're still like thriving off of that. So I say I'll say that there was like a beautiful mix of like masculine and feminine energy like that I was growing up with, even though I was mainly around feminine energies, um, feminine people yeah yeah, on my dad's side it was.

WiSH: 4:41

I would go visit him every once in a while, um, I'm like that's like that's a little bit of masculinity I got, but our relationship isn't that great. He was always kind of like like a yelling, like maybe I'm like, dare I say, a little bit verbally abusive, so I would always kind of like just the energy was off and I me like I used to feel bad about feeling like I couldn't be around him or certain people that kind of gave me that same thing, because I would want to, like I would always want to show up in love, and I would feel like I'm not, I wasn't doing the right thing or I wasn't being loving enough to accept them, them, um, but I'm just like now coming to terms with the idea that I don't need to shrink myself or put myself in situations that are not not conducive to like me, not conducive to like building me up, um, in order to please other people. Cause that was just kind of like it felt like it was crushing my spirit more and more and more.

Lauren: 5:45

Yeah.

WiSH: 5:48

So kind of taking a step back and worked on myself more and it is really it's really been doing like some amazing things, like there's really a power to like I've always heard there's a power to like putting yourself first and like doing things you need to do for yourself, sure, but I'm like realizing that now, like in my experience, doing things you need to do for yourself, sure, but I'm like realizing that now, like in in my experience, and my body and my life.

Lauren: 6:11

It's a big, it's a big deal. So what kind of?

Frank: 6:13

things. Are you assuming you're tapping into a more authentic wish here?

WiSH: 6:20

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, honestly, I really have a lot of. It really has been stepping into my spirituality, um, and really like giving myself the space to. I keep looking back because I live with my grandma, who is um baptist all the way down to the bone and I was raised in the baptist church. I was actually the first baby to be dedicated by my pastor back in um. He was like it was his first month back in 1997, um. So I've always had like a connection with my church on that on like some levels. But then on some other levels it was kind of like I'm not feeling everything that is being said here.

Lauren: 7:05

Yeah.

WiSH: 7:06

Because, again, the energies, and I think this is like part of like, this is like a big part of exploring and understanding my own connection with spirit. I know this is like somewhat controversial in some spaces probably not here but I identify as an empath and I like really do like feel energies of spaces and I think that's part of like cause I always have this drive to like want to like help people, and sometimes it's too much Cause I want to like almost jump into their skin and be like do this, you know like their emotions for them and do this you know like how their emotions for them, and that's you know learning, learning about Yep, you too, yeah, yeah, and I'm learning that that's not.

Lauren: 7:55

It's not yours.

WiSH: 7:56

Not my yes, that period I was about to say that's not helpful, that too. But it's really yeah, at the end of the day it's not mine, um. But while I was at the church I would like hear one thing. I would hear like god is love, god loves you. But I would also like feel another thing, especially when, like my pastor's, like why? Why do I feel like I'm like doxing people, I'm not saying any names. I'm like looking left and right, um, they can't hear you right now, you're good.

WiSH: 8:30

A lot of what he would preach would be kind of like rhetoric to scare people into Christianity. Like you're not this enough, you're not that enough. If you don't have God or Jesus in your life in this certain way, if you're not reading the Bible, if you're going out, you know all all the things, if you're doing this kind of sinning, then it's not enough. And that was mainly. That was just week to week to week to week. That was like the basis of every sermon and like after 18 years of going like every Sunday straight, I was like I don't know about this, so, but after a week to week to week, of going every sunday straight, like hearing this over and over again, I had a lot of like fear of doing anything about it, like I didn't want to be there, but I was like if I'm not here, I'm going to hell, and I don't want to go to hell.

WiSH: 9:26

And then a big part of it too is like my queerness and my sexuality, like that. I think that was, um, the biggest thing that made me have to reckon with with my differences with the church, because, um, I know some churches are more accepting, but mine wasn't one of those. There weren't women allowed um to be pastors there or even stand in like the pulpit where the pastor preaches. They like to stand aside, yeah. So I was like, yeah, um, that's how they felt about gender in general. So, like with queer stuff, it not a, it was like a non-starter.

Lauren: 10:06

Yeah.

WiSH: 10:06

Yeah. So I like was like growing up kind of breaking through this a little bit. In high school I got to like explore a little bit more, um, I like stepped out and explore my queerness a little bit. Um and and uh with that. It just felt like this like expansion within me to like just explore more, like let me explore different spiritualities, let me explore like how I connect to um, how I can connect to God in a different way, cause that was never like part of the question for me.

WiSH: 10:44

I've always been um able to feel God. I've always felt like I've like gotten guidance from something higher than myself, um, so I didn't feel like God was the issue, but just the way I was relating to God was the issue, cause I'm like I don't think God would be upset with me being queer, cause I find God and queerness like a lot like with my sexuality and gender, like I think that with both of those factors, they're both like intrinsically tied with spirituality to me. Um, especially when you like think of like outside of colonialism um, my ancestors are mainly from Africa and other places I'm not sure all the places but even like outside of like colonialism in general, when you like think of like pre-colonial Europeans and pre-colonial like everywhere Americans. All over the place there's different gender expressions and a lot of those expressions are tied to connections with source, with God, with the spirit world, with source with God, with the spirit world. A lot of people who, I guess, for an example, I'm seeing here right now, is like the two spirit people of First Nations.

WiSH: 12:17

Yeah yeah, like having two spirits in them. There's a link to, but actually I'm not even fully sure, so I'm not going to use that example anymore. I'm like, I'm not too strike that. Let's write that um, but in other examples especially, there's a, there's like a group of people in indonesia that have five genders and, um, it's like what we would be equivalent to cis males, cis females, trans men, trans women, and then the fifth gender is like a mix of both, and those are usually the people who are like the shamans.

Frank: 12:55

Yeah, I've heard of this. Yeah, listen, maybe I'm getting the country wrong. I was thinking people from Thailand have that too.

Lauren: 13:07

Oh yeah, but yeah it's all over the place.

Frank: 13:09

Yeah, only western culture. Do we say this or that?

WiSH: 13:12

yeah, and I think so many people like it's interesting because we don't have the records of them um of like the history, pre-colonialism and a lot of these spaces, but like how many people were like gender ambiguous and also like connecting with different realms.

WiSH: 13:36

Right, there's a book that I have and it was basically talking about there's a tribe in Africa I can't fully remember, but I'll let you know once we're done with this about how people who are in between male and female also have a foot in between the spiritual world. So all of it I don't know, all of it comes together and I feel like that's how I see life as like all of these things together, which is why I started with what I did and kind of like I'm coming into like the spirit of it all, because I think spirit, to me spirit is like the like amniotic fluid of all these different everything else, like there's everything about, like how we conceptualize ourselves. Um, like I think of it as I think maybe a better word is like the cytoplasm I'm trying to think of, even like different structures. But, like you know, like spirit is like it's the thing, it's like the fluid that we're all in, that we like that binds us together and allows, like gateways and passages come to each other.

Lauren: 14:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah, everything.

WiSH: 14:48

Yeah.

Lauren: 14:49

Yeah.

WiSH: 14:50

Everything. Yeah, yeah, um, that's kind of how I guess that's like the foundation of like, of how I like look at all of this. Um but more specifics um of how like I specifically connect to spirit. I really didn't feel much of like anything, any specific connection um, other than just like vibes. When I was going to church praying, like it felt like a direct line was going from me to god at the top of my head.

Lauren: 15:22

Yeah.

Frank: 15:23

Oh, very specific yeah.

WiSH: 15:26

And it was like, yeah, and I still do that to this day when I'm praying or talking to my cause. I've moved away from like praying to Christian guys so much into connecting with my ancestors and spirit guides and, yeah, connecting with god as well. But, like everybody, you know, like can I get everybody together because at some point, like it's all just one spirit, um, yeah. So yeah, I started like exploring a little bit like out of christianity in um high school, like when I got into astrology, love, astrology down, yeah, and felt really like resonant with that. But I was like it's just burn, like this, is that satan stuff? Right, yeah?

Lauren: 16:20

yeah, yeah it's like, ingrained in your, in your, in your brain. Yes, you have to undo so much of the like belief system that you, what you were like, hammered, yeah into yeah, yeah, and it really felt like it was a belief system of like separation.

WiSH: 16:42

That's like the biggest thing like and I'm still working on that to this day like, yeah, removing the separation, um, yeah, because I don't know, like, if you look at it a certain way, like everything can flow into each other, everything makes sense. I'm like looking at all these different religions and I'm like, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I see where that goes in. Yeah, yeah, it feels like all like different roads to like the same, the same thing that we're like looking for. Yeah, yeah, I got into astrology a little bit but like I kind of like left it out there until college, when I moved away, and that's when I was able to like it was field day, I was like I can do whatever I want yeah where'd you move to?

WiSH: 17:29

I moved to. It was still in Illinois, but it was like this small town, charleston, illinois. Okay, it used to be in sundown town, so there's that. But the community at the school, which I guess like is that like almost like any school, like any public school, because there's a lot of like different people coming in. A lot of people from Chicago came down there, so the community of the school really like had enough space for me to like explore so many different things.

WiSH: 18:02

I explored, yeah, I explored my gender, um for the first time there, um score sexuality more, um took like queer theories classes, um, I was a sociology major, so this might be like a little bit inside of how, why I'm like, why I think like this. Yeah, because I see like I'm looking at different like social strata kind of things. Yeah, yeah, so, like I just took that time to explore so many different things, explore myself a little bit more. And I had a friend who told me that like we're on a walk one night and she told me that like just randomly that she walk one night, and she told me that, like just randomly that, um, she was born with her third eye open and like she's from like a spiritual, like witchy family, yeah, one talk. I was like that's a.

Frank: 18:56

That's quite the icebreaker.

WiSH: 18:57

Yeah, by the way like three months into our friendship, like actually actually let me tell you. And then she was like yeah, like my mom and grandma have disability and they like did work to close my eye because I was saying too many things when I was a baby, but now, like I practiced, and while we're on the walk, she's like, yeah, a spirit behind us and I was like like my whole world was shaking.

WiSH: 19:28

yeah, that's amazing, yeah because it's all stuff that I was like, oh like, kind of like I feel like I was peeking through the blinds and like reading the internet, but like to have this was like a full like, like I was smacked in the face with like like getting to, like not experience it firsthand, I guess, but like be with somebody who's experiencing it firsthand and their journey with it. So, yeah, she was like, yeah, the spirit is behind us. It has like a, it's like a skinny body but like the head of a turtle, and I would like to feel like I and I would like just be like I was like this is so crazy. Like okay, not a human, okay, work, I am now aware that non-human spirits are here and I would keep turning around and she's like stop, you're scaring it. I'm like, let me get home. I was scared, but like intrigued, yeah.

WiSH: 20:27

So yeah, that's like really like when the door opened wide, like for me, that's when I was like I'm all in, like let me explore more, let me feel into myself more. I think like certain ways that I grew up like emotionally stunted me. So that's been a. That's been like what I've been working on from that point on To unlock emotional closure that also closes off my connection with spirit and with perception, with know, with my spiritual gifts. Yeah, yeah, because I used to like not be able to cry at all. Now I can like do a little, like like one tear maybe, which is a lot better than like before, and I'll like get more emotional now, but I used to like that used to be like completely closed off to me really yeah, even as an empath.

Lauren: 21:28

How did you process emotions?

Frank: 21:33

I don't know emotions.

WiSH: 21:36

For me it would yeah it was all stomach, I would like feel a lot of like, like I feel bad. I would get like anger. It was more available, and I think there's like a masculine thing too, yeah, um, like anger was more available to me. Um, like feeling it secondarily, versus like the like boohoo. You know what I say? Like that, no, I love the boohoo, um, but like it would feel that wasn't available to me and it's still like it's a little bit hard. But when I'm like sitting in my body more, I'll be able to like channel, instead of like going into like the frustration, I'll be able to like wait what am I actually feeling and then like channel it into the emotions that like are there, which is usually like some kind of like sadness or like feeling, feeling less than and like. That's the first point, versus like turning that into like. Now I'm mad at XYZ because of like what's, yeah, what's going on inside of me right yeah, yeah, that's a journey that's so insightful too.

WiSH: 22:45

What's going on inside of me, right, yeah?

Frank: 22:47

That's a journey that's so insightful too.

WiSH: 22:49

Yeah, thank you. Actually, it goes a little bit further in my story. I'm trying to be linear. I'm not a linear thinker, though I live with one Word. This guy is the linear, I'm not a linear thinker, though.

Lauren: 23:04

I live with one word this guy is the linear thinker and I'm like, oh, and then there's this, and then, oh wait, I forgot to tell you like 10 years before that he's like I'm trying to follow you.

WiSH: 23:21

I wrote this down, but I'm not even looking at my paper so far, so good.

Lauren: 23:29

It feels good okay with you all the way, thank you.

WiSH: 23:32

I need the validation. I appreciate it. But yeah, I think in college after that I started getting into stuff like numerology, human design, um, got into it, like got into spirituality, intellectually, but I still wasn't like feeling things. I was kind of like I was like I want to feel these things. I want to like have these abilities. I've always been like obsessed with like superheroes and superpowers too, so like reading about this, I felt like I was like going Super Saiyan or something. Yeah, I'm like I want to feel this. Yeah, people like Raven from Teen Titans, raven's- so cool More in Super.

Frank: 24:19

Saiyan as a Dragon Ball Z reference.

Lauren: 24:21

I didn't get that one. You know, when you see, like I'm sure you've seen little clips of Dragon Ball Z reference.

Frank: 24:25

Okay, I didn't get that one, Sorry. You know, when you see like I'm sure you've seen little clips of Dragon Ball Z, when a dude's going like this, he's like catching fire.

Lauren: 24:29

Yes.

Frank: 24:30

That's.

WiSH: 24:30

Super Saiyan.

Frank: 24:32

And then, his hair turns blonde.

WiSH: 24:33

Yeah, yeah, okay. We're all just waiting for our hair to turn blonde. Got it, yeah. And to around us. Yeah, that's what I was um, but yeah, I was like okay, so spiritual abilities?

WiSH: 24:51

are like the closest I can get to super superpowers, yeah, yeah, like diving in there. Um, so I came in with like a, like a agenda and like thinking about it. Thinking about it, thinking about it um, I didn't really realize that feeling into it was like just as important, if not more important, um, until I guess I had to. So after, after college, I was kind of feeling like, um, I fell into like a depression because I went to school trying to like accommodate as best as I could, to like what I felt like I had to do in society, like how do I say? Um, I feel like I grew up feeling like I needed to be in STEM or like you know something like make money, basically. So I felt like I had to make money, prove to be a good heir to like my grandma's amazing legacy of like working the house down, like she really like East St Louis. She had a huge impact on the whole city. So I'm like, how am I going to live to that? I was like, actually, that doesn't bring me like any joy at all.

WiSH: 26:09

And when I was like graduating college, like towards the end of college is when I started like I feel like experiencing spirit for the first time, mainly because I was doing psychedelics, I was like, wow, oh yeah, that really does open some doors there, yeah, but like I was like connecting with other people's energies in a way where I hadn't before. I had this really like kind of scary moment where I think, while I was like taking shrooms with a few friends, I didn't feel safe in the environment to begin with, um, and it was just like staticky, bigger in front of me, they're like sat on the bed with me and it was like shaped like a man but like just made of static, and I was just like wow, like who are you vibing, you know? And then, like once, like I was, I reached out and once it touched my hand, um, I like immediately felt sick, like I was gonna throw up. So, like I like I was like I need to get out of this house, like that's the first thing that came to me.

WiSH: 27:20

Um, so I like tried to like go downstairs but like I need to get out of this house, like that's the first thing that came to me, um, so I like tried to like go downstairs, but like I couldn't even really walk. I was like laying on the, um, the, the railway, like sliding my body down. I was like, oh, totally freaking out, crying, laughing. Then I was like I need to leave, I need to leave, and I kept seeing this figure like to the, you know, to the left of me. Everywhere I went I saw like the static man to like the left of me, um, until I like left the house, went back to my friend's apartment, um, and like, eventually the figure left. But after that point it was like, kind of like it's more like life-changing, like I felt like a darkness came over me that I didn't used to have before and still trying to figure out like what that was, like what's, what's that story, because there was more like darkness too, and I think it was all culminating in, like this sense of like childhood leaving, like the innocence of life, kind of like leaving and going into the adult world, and I was just not ready for that, not ready to um, there's more propositions for me to almost sell my soul. To put it like six, seven, eight, lay it straight, and I like to give something of myself that I didn't want to give in order to like, have a healthy, stable life, and I just didn't want to enter the adult world in the ways. The only ways that I saw were options. So I just kind of like got into a depression there that lasted a few years. I was still like seeing and experiencing spirit in different ways, getting like animal messages and like just like kind of a knowing, knowing, like, um, for example, there was an owl.

WiSH: 29:31

I was on a walk by myself on 12 21 2021 and no, it was 12 21 2020. Um, I think this was like a day. Back then. They were like this is the day that we entered into the age of aquarius. Like the astrology people were like. They were like this is the day that we enter into the age of Aquarius. The astrology people were going nuts on this day. So I was like let me just connect with myself. Let me go on this midnight walk around my neighborhood and I kept hearing like whoo, whoo, whoo, whoo. I'm like okay, word, there's an owl around. I love owls, um, but, like, as I walked like almost a mile, I kept hearing the same like it was. I heard it like to the same extent, like same volume, everything. And I was like, okay, like am I being followed? And as soon as I like had that thought and looked up, I saw the owl like fly above my head and land on a branch in front of me and I'm like but then I just kept

WiSH: 30:27

walking and it kept following me, like I kept like seeing it now that I was looking for it, seeing it and hearing it, until I got like a highway and then it didn't follow me across there but I still kept hearing it. Who at me? Like I'm just personalizing, I don't know what it was doing, like logically, but it was really like coming with me across this journey and this was like during a specifically like period of my life where I was feeling like a lot of darkness. And it actually turned out that I think because, looked it up in mouth, owls are messengers, sometimes even harbingers of death, um, but some kind of transition, some kind of like it's also they're soothing, um, so I felt was it was a month from that owl encounter that my mom ended up passing away.

Lauren: 31:31

Oh my God, oh my gosh yeah.

WiSH: 31:32

It was really sudden. She got sick in November and was like in the hospital back and forth, um, no one knew what was going on, and then eventually the doctors found out, but it was too late. So, yeah, it was as far as like passings go. It was really like hard on me and my family.

Lauren: 31:55

Yeah I'm so sorry, thank you yeah, thank you.

WiSH: 31:59

It like the emotions are coming up now and like my masculine part of me was like, don't feel sad, but yeah, it's still. It like it really, um, it really rocked my world. Yeah, it really rocked my world, um, and it's so interesting that it was literally a month it was literally a month before that that has had this owl encounter on like such a synchronistic day yeah, yeah yeah, um it makes me think how much harder, how much harder it would have been.

Frank: 32:40

Obviously you had a hard time with your mom passing, but you know to have that like moment with had a hard time with your mom passing, but you know to have that like moment with the owl to think back on and be like, oh, you know what, like sure it might've been like a, a warning, but also like an acknowledgement that you are not alone in any of this. Yeah, yeah. It's even bigger than all of this. Yeah, I hope that it's a little bit of comfort, you know.

WiSH: 33:06

Yeah, oh, I, yeah, I hope that a little bit of comfort. You know, yeah, oh, I appreciate that, because I wasn't mad at al for a little bit. I've had to like I just want to do gloat in my face.

Lauren: 33:12

You know, yeah, yeah, yeah, but no, that's yeah and it really you think about it that way as being like supported and like you know, looking back on what that message meant as far as, like, like you said, transition or kind of, you know, yeah, those messages from like any signs, or they're just so profound, yeah yeah, and that one really was probably like the most profound, probably most profound sign I've ever gotten yeah, other than the day my mom passed, maybe Because after she passed away I was feeling all the emotions.

WiSH: 33:58

We got like a call from the hospital like that morning and they're like y'all might want to come in. So we immediately knew what was going to happen. She was scheduled for a surgery. It was post-surgery. They were like, yeah, I'm not describing this in any way, emotions are really coming up in me trying to describe this. They're like, yeah, there's not really much we can do anymore. So we all gathered, met her at the hospital, said our goodbyes and, right as we were leaving, I just felt like a crazy energy, like a crazy energy and a deep knowing.

WiSH: 34:53

Like a deep knowing and like a deep sense of like brightness and calm came over me, like it was almost like.

WiSH: 34:59

It was almost like an alertness to where I felt like my mom was with me and it also felt like she was giving her life energy to me so that not only I could feel comforted, but it also felt like she was healing a lot of the darkness that I I was feeling at that time and I had been feeling up until then, like I just it was like this moment of just like deep appreciation of life joy. I felt like I could see, like you know, I was saying, like I have that golden cord that comes up. I was seeing cords all around me. It was like they're like weaving around.

WiSH: 35:44

There's a baby that came out, um, right as mike, as we were leaving from like my mom passing, and I was like I was able in that moment to like appreciate, like new life is here, like it was sunny and like 50 degrees on that day. I was like there's no better day that like my mom could have passed, because, like she gave us like such a good, a beautiful morning to walk out to, the sun was shining and like rising from the direction we're walking to our cars, um, it just felt like everything was synchronistic and I was like seeing like all the strings and connections of life as if they were like chords all around me and it's amazing yeah, it's so beautiful that you were able to be that like aware and present in such, in such a grief moment too.

WiSH: 36:36

Yeah, thank you, thank you, um, I don't even like now you say that I'm like I don't even know, I'm not aware of how I was even able to do that.

WiSH: 36:48

Maybe it was part of me just bottoming out and just being empty for something to come in, because I was like my grandma and sister were probably annoyed because I was like everything's so beautiful and they're like my mom died, you know, and I'm like yes, and and not to like discredit, like any of that, you know, but I was like I could not see the beauty of it too.

WiSH: 37:15

I was like, wow, it gave me a new lease on life, the everyday step by step of it making it through. But, um, that, that, um, I think that just changed my life like I can't think of. Now I have hope, like a deep, a deep, deep hope that I don't think anything can really take away, and I use that hope to like help like me rebuild and heal myself from, like, a lot of, a lot of stuff, a lot of um, the lack of hope and lack of like how do I say? I don't know how to say it but like I was still like, even though I I had that burst, like I still had to work on and heal myself in a lot of different ways do you feel like it was still?

WiSH: 38:11

it still felt like it took an immense amount of effort just to get to a neutral place where you can, like, feel appreciation yeah, yeah, yeah for sure, because it was like on one level or in some place, I it's like a yeah, it was like I felt hope for hope. Yeah, yeah, like the full thing wasn't there yet, but I was like there's something here, um. So, yeah, for these past few years I've just been like really like diving into that more, feeling into, like these feelings, tapping into that space where I started to feel like how do I say? Honing into the energy that I received on that day, tapping into where I felt it in my body, following my intuition more.

WiSH: 39:08

There was a spiritual counseling group that I joined a month after my mom passed, because on Instagram there was an interview that the host of it did on a random advertisement that I saw and I was like I like his energy. So then I found him um on Instagram and, like I messaged him and he was opening up a group of all queer trans, identifying people um to join together and collect, um to like learn how to embody more. Yeah, it was kind of like a spirituality meets, like trans-ness, and it's based it's called Tiresias, based on the myth of Tiresias from Greek mythology, where Tiresias was a man who, I believe, was punished into being turned into a woman and he gained insights on being both a man and a woman, having that experience, and he became like a philosopher or like a wise person.

Frank: 40:29

I've never heard this story. That's amazing.

WiSH: 40:33

I recommend it because I've never heard either before this group, yeah, that's cool, yeah, and I think that's like the premise of the group. So what we did was like just practice, embodiment, um, we would like say phrases, um, like I, um like what we wanted, like I have a successful business that I love and feel embodied in every single day, and we would like say these phrases over and over again and allow ourselves to be heard and reflected on by another person. It was really intimate, like one-on-one, like exchanges. The other person would, um, just sit there and like stare you in the eyes. While you said these things, insecurities will come up, fears will come up, um, everything, joy, rage, everything would come up and be palpable. And it was like an exercise for both partners to use their own abilities, use their empathy, to pick up on what's being conveyed and reflect that back in an honest way. And it was good.

WiSH: 41:51

That really was the foundation of me like learning to embody and like feel myself, feel my emotions, um, know where they're coming from, where they're located in the body, um, and yeah, like that was like the first step to like really feeling my feelings about my mom passing and letting myself like express like I like, like I said, I don't have an easy time crying, but I remember one time I was with some Tiresias friends and we were just like breathing and I like hit this point of like grieving. I was outside like my neighbor was like in her house right across the street and I like hit this point of like grieving. I was outside like my neighbor was like in her house right across the street and I was just like I don't even know what I was doing. I was like making heaving noises, like just like out there, yeah, like going through it.

Lauren: 42:46

Letting it all out.

WiSH: 42:47

Letting it out, yeah, in the ways that it needed to. Like. I feel embarrassed thinking back on this and saying this, but it was really like. It was also really beautiful, just to like let myself feel and express and like let it out in the ways that it needed to come out.

Lauren: 43:04

Yeah.

WiSH: 43:05

Yeah, yeah. So that really, like that really helped a lot. So then I decided to go back to school. I'm like I want to, like I've always had this desire to help people and I've always had this feeling that I wasn't doing what I was supposed to be doing. And it kind of correlates with like going to feeling not ready to like be in the adult world and like not grounded enough to like face the challenges that come with that. But, like, I always had this knowing that I want to help people in some capacity, especially, and probably mainly, in a spiritual capacity. So I started massage and I'm jumping ahead a little bit. I started counseling. I started going to school for talk counseling. I went to school for this I should know what it's called Therapy of the speech variety and I was like going through it. It was great learning all this stuff.

WiSH: 44:20

But when it came time to like like get in the field and do the work and like practice, I was like really not feeling it and I was like kind of going back and forth, back and forth. I'm like why don't I want to do this? Like on paper it's exactly what I want to do, but I think like just the energy again of the school, like the energy of, like the program. It wasn't what I wanted Like. I wanted more hands-on, I wanted more like of, like an emotional connection, and that is possible in therapy. But I think there's a lot of hoops that needs to be jumped over.

WiSH: 44:58

While I was in school, I was even just feeling out the class and the teachers and what was being taught. It felt like people were more focused on the material things like insurance and um, what if a client does xyz and like they rub you the wrong way or you know, like the, what we were, how we were connecting, wasn't how I like what, what I felt like I wanted to do, you know it's still so in Getting in the logistics, but it's all still so built into the existing system that it seems like you're trying to find a way out of.

WiSH: 45:37

Yeah, yes, exactly yes, it really was that. It was like, because I feel like what I want to actually do is really not within any of these current modern systems that are stemming from colonialism. It's not, um, and I think, like, when you like really look at, like what all this came from, not to get like crazy political, but like so much of this stems from. So much of this stems from slavery. Like so much of this, so much of how we move, how we operate, how we even think, stems from, like, the concept of like having someone to work and do like a lot of the menial labor and, um, rise up off of that.

Frank: 46:34

The structure of most companies, the structure of society, I would argue, is built off of a master-slave system and we're all down here fighting for scraps, yes, and then they pit us against each other. But yeah, I can go into it.

WiSH: 46:45

You know, yeah, and then we're trying to become the next r up, like it's all based on that, and that's kind of how it felt Like, um, I felt those similar energies with my counseling program, so like the day.

WiSH: 47:00

I was like laying in bed and I was like I'm really, I'm going to do this. Like finally gave myself. I was like what if I didn't like what? Like finally gave myself. I was like what if I didn't Like? What if I stopped? And like I felt like a whole rush over my body, like of this, like idea and like allowance to stop, and I was like like I felt so free.

Frank: 47:21

Isn't it wild when you let yourself be yourself?

Lauren: 47:25

Yeah, I just like, let go. It is Like oh my gosh, I didn't even know it was possible.

WiSH: 47:31

Yeah, yeah. But yeah, literally like y'all. Yeah, you hear me in the sense of like trying to find a space while not working in that same like system.

WiSH: 47:49

Yeah, not working, yeah Not working in a way that um, um, in a way that is so eating, so I allow myself to quit. And I felt amazing and then eventually, like, with that space, I found actually one of my mentors who's becoming like a really lovely and valuable spiritual mentor to me. She also does my locks, damn Amazing. Her husband actually went to this school for massage therapy called the Healing Arts Center and I was like, excuse me, the Healing Arts Center, um, what do they do? And I would like to be part of that. Yeah, and it was a massage school, but it's really like it's actually I think it's the first massage school in the St Louis area, um, longest running, and they specifically specialize. I'm not sure about like most massage schools, but this one specifically like specializes and it's like grounded in um, energy work and energy healing.

WiSH: 49:02

Amazing, yeah, tying it all together, um, and I'm like that sounds like exactly what I want to do. So I went to, I like signed up for everything just went so smoothly. I signed up like to talk to somebody and they're like join, and I'm like, oh, this seems so sweet, but they're like you can come to a massage or a snowshoes night to see what you feel. So I went to that with my friend and I was like, oh yeah, like this is great. We learned like basic, like techniques of rocking, um, but then like basically physical techniques of rocking, like connecting with the person, um, and we also learned like how to like energetically, like cleanse ourselves and move energy off of people as well. They also teach Reiki, which I know you are. Are you a master now? I haven't caught up with you, lauren.

Lauren: 50:00

I am yeah.

Frank: 50:02

I call her Sensei.

Lauren: 50:05

I just told Frank yesterday. I'm like I think it's time for you to be attuned as a Reiki master.

Frank: 50:11

And I said but then I can't call you sensei anymore, I'll always call you sensei, it's fine we can both be senseis but I'm forever your sensei.

Lauren: 50:20

Yes, yeah so did you learn?

WiSH: 50:26

Reiki too not yet, but that is part of the program. We can attune to level one and then we can come back to level two and level three, so I definitely plan on doing that. Yeah, I'm so excited about that and all the energy healing in general and, yeah, just right now I feel like this is the happiest I've been, maybe in life, and also specifically in like a school setting. I love my cohort. We all like connect in such a way that, even like the administrators are like y'all are like there's something going on here Like word.

WiSH: 51:11

This is a group of genuine people. Yeah, um, yeah, like I used to be scared of people, but like now I'm like there's so much love in the world, like it's there yeah you just got to find it, and find it in yourself first, I think.

Frank: 51:31

Yeah, it's there. And also, like everybody has it and even if they don't have it, all the time you can, you can pull it out of people and give them good, good moments like that I've noticed.

Lauren: 51:41

Yeah, that's so real Good for you for paying attention to what felt like misaligned and finding, as soon as you were saying like talking about being in therapy class, and I was thinking that's not the right like, when you were like this isn't the right thing, I was like it's going to be energy healing, it's going to be Reiki, like, and if wish is not doing that, then I'm going to suggest it Fantastic.

WiSH: 52:15

You have a good read on me.

Lauren: 52:18

I'm working on my, on my intuitive knowing what comes in.

Frank: 52:24

Um, was there more to your story? I don't want to stop.

WiSH: 52:27

That was it. Thank y'all for going along for that ride.

Frank: 52:31

Thank you for bringing us along with you. It's a beautiful it. Thank y'all for going along for that ride. Thank you for bringing us along with you.

Lauren: 52:33

It's a beautiful journey. Thank you for sharing.

Frank: 52:35

There's something I wanted to point out real quick. You opened up the story saying that like you're kind of living a magically mundane life, but that's, that's an incredible, meaningful story. And while it might not be one of those things where, like I got in a car accident and had an NDE and like now I, you know, like I don't know, play hopscotch with ghosts, you're like what? What your journey to me looks like is that you are on a personal mission to find what I would call like spiritual and emotional sustainability to build a new future, and like it's, it's you, you should write that down.

Frank: 53:17

You kind of hit me as like, a, like a I don't want to abuse the word, like shaman, but some kind of like future thought leader in that. In that sense, Cause you also carry, even though I know you may have struggled with it in your early years, you do carry. Even though I know you, you may have struggled with it in your early years, you, you do carry like a confidence. That like is really empowering because you've managed to and you're in the middle of a journey of empowering yourself, and I think there's something amazing to that.

WiSH: 53:44

Thank you. Yeah, too much love.

Lauren: 53:48

I'm excited to see where this goes for you.

Frank: 53:51

I mean even from like obviously your, your, your mother passing was, was terrible, but you, like, you've come out on the other end of that and it's still like a journey to get through, like the grief, but then also like just your story walk alongside the grief, you never walk along, walk along the grief, walk alongside the beautiful, but also like, like even in your journey to through being a non-conforming individual, like it's all part of building something new.

Frank: 54:20

And that's like that's been my kind of my main takeaway from your story. I, for me, it's easy to distill because you had to tell me in an hour, but you know that's what's coming through. Those are the main points. I'm like, oh man, wish did this and wish did this, and wish is building something new. I think it's. It's super cool and I don't think it's mundane at all yeah thank you, yeah, it's, it's so.

WiSH: 54:44

I really appreciate like you're reflecting that. Um, it's hard to like see your life from the outside. Yeah, yeah, you know, and this is actually like probably the first time I've ever like told this story, cause it really it feels. It feels like it's coming to like a point, like brought well-rounded, like story, if you will, right now, like this is the point where I'm like whoa, if you will right now, this is the point where I'm like whoa, I see where and how all of this got me to where I'm at now and why?

Frank: 55:20

Because you wouldn't be in this position if you hadn't done all that, if you hadn't had to overcome, or what did you say? Walk next to all of that.

Lauren: 55:29

Walk alongside your grief.

Frank: 55:31

Walk alongside your grief.

Lauren: 55:31

Walk alongside your grief yeah.

Frank: 55:33

She's better than me, she's sensei. Thank you, sensei.

Lauren: 55:40

It's just, I've I've had, you know, 20 years of grief. You never get through it or over it, it just grows. You grow around it or you walk alongside it, or you know something like that. Yeah, it's not linear grief. So, yeah, I wanted to ask you, though, like with your mom, do you, is there a sign that you have from her, Like, is there like something that, like she sends you, Do you see owls? Now she comes in my dreams, Amazing. This is another point.

WiSH: 56:19

Dreams for me are like that's where me and Spirit Kiki and that's where I get my messages from them.

Lauren: 56:29

Yeah, and actually it's so funny, one of the first nights before she passed.

WiSH: 56:30

Like that's where I get my messages from them. Yeah, yeah, like. And actually it's so funny the first, like one of the first nights where she passed, I was sleeping in her bed and I had a dream Um, I think it's like literally night one or night two, like still on, like the three day bereavement that work gives you.

Frank: 56:49

Um, I hate it so much.

WiSH: 56:53

Yeah, okay, I was like I need more. But I had a dream where my grandma like every all my family's at the house and my grandma was lost and everyone's like where's granny? Where's granny? Where's granny, um. And then my mom came in, like it came in the house like with granny on her arm, um, and she said nothing. It's like super, like solemn, um, and I was like embarrassed and like kind of taking that out on her and also probably just like taking out a lot of like anger of her passing, like directing that to her. I felt bad about it when I was, when I I like woke up, but I felt like it was just like it was something that it was like the anger of like the situation so fresh there. But she came in Abandonment, yeah.

Lauren: 57:40

Yeah.

WiSH: 57:41

Yeah, but she said nothing. She just like walked in and like looked at me and like, basically, like, if, like, what was communicated without words was like um, you're her keeper now. So, yeah, me and my grandma we live together. Um, it's really, it's been me and her ever since and we take care of each other. Um, that's so sweet. Yeah, yeah, I'm her keeper and I really like, I'm like I took that role. After that, like I, I, there was no question about it. I was like, yeah, like, because it used to be my mom and my grandma, right, yeah, but yeah, now it's me.

Frank: 58:24

I mean, what a good person for even taking on that role. That's not an easy role all the time yeah.

WiSH: 58:33

Yeah, that's not an easy role all the time, yeah, yeah, it's been a journey. It's taught me a lot of like how to um compromise and respect, like differences, um in a way that, like before, I just was like not dealing with them, I'd be like I'm over here, but like now, it's like it's so rewarding to be able to like like still connect after you know, after like not always seeing eye to eye, yeah, and like finding that connection in a yeah in a real way again.

Frank: 59:01

Yeah something that I had to learn was that because I I came from a very religious background too and I would get very mad and rage against it um, over the last like I don't know decade or so, I've realized that like that existed, so that I could exist and and carry on the torch in a new, in a new way. Right, yeah, it shows you like religion serves a purpose of, like showing you the foundation, but like it is okay to walk away from it and and the you know, the hierarchical, hierarchical, the hierarchical, uh, structure that they build into religion is going to try and stop you from doing that and, like some of the people that used to participate in those traditional religions have that ingrained into them. It's hard for them to let that go, but you're here to do, you're here to let it go for them, and that's like part of what's one of those things. It's one of those things, man, new, new world.

WiSH: 1:00:06

I am loving that I get to experience both of you all's gifts head on. Whoa, because I like Lauren, with your empathy, and just like connecting to the emotions. Frank, with like your knowing and like being able to like these are both things that, like I've been hearing with you all, but experience is a whole other thing. Thank you both.

Frank: 1:00:33

Wish. Thank you so much for spending time with us and telling us your story. I think it's incredible and I think you're incredible yeah thank you.

WiSH: 1:00:38

I really like um. I could probably speak for 20 more minutes about just how amazing y'all's podcast and y'all's energy um has for me and I'm just so sure that it's for so many people. You probably get messages about this. I feel like this is exactly what I needed at this moment, and y'all just both so sweet and kind and encouraging. Thank you. Thank you for being in this space and doing this thing that means so much it really does when the camera turns off.

Frank: 1:01:16

I'm a monster again. Thank you, for I'm glad my line is working Well. Do me a favor and continue to give us updates and if you have any big revelations or anything, please come back on the show and we'll chat more.

WiSH: 1:01:29

Yeah, word I would love to with your existing practice.

Frank: 1:01:33

Is there anything any like um links or places you want to share that people can find you?

WiSH: 1:01:39

I actually have an instagram, um, that is really fresh and up and coming. Um, it's called the intersectionality. So I been doing um intuitive tarot and Oracle readings over there. Um, yeah, and I'm planning on like putting up like intuition, like test two it's, it's in the works, awesome.

Lauren: 1:02:04

Yay, that's cool.

Frank: 1:02:05

Thank you so much again. Thank you, thank you Much love to y'all, much love.

WiSH: 1:02:10

We'll talk to you soon.