Clairvoyaging

097: Breathwork // with Brittany Lillegard

• Wayfeather • Season 1 • Episode 97

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In this episode, we chatted with breath guide Brittany Lillegard to explore how anxiety, panic, and stress reshape breathing patterns—and how a single intentional inhale can start to rewrite the story your brain believes. Brittany shares her path from debilitating panic attacks to “following her breath,” including the pivotal insight that if you can’t breathe in a position, you don’t belong there. Applied to life, that means breath becomes both a compass and a boundary, revealing misalignment and pointing toward safety.

We dig into the shift from brain-down living to breath-up regulation. Instead of the mind dictating threat and the lungs obeying, we use slow nasal breaths, gentle 360-degree rib expansion, and slightly longer exhales to send safety signals back to the brain. Brittany offers harm-reduction wisdom: box breathing can help many, but breath holds may trigger those with breath-related trauma or panic. We also explore cold exposure as a training ground for “catching your breath,” transforming stress spikes into practiced calm.

Take away some simple, repeatable practices that meet you where you are: mouth closed, tongue up, ribs widening, attention softening. If you try just one thing today, take a single conscious breath and notice what changes. If this resonated, follow and share the episode, and leave a review telling us which cue helped you most.

To learn more or to work with Brittany:

Follow: www.instagram.com/breathworkcaravan

Clairvoyaging is now a fiscally sponsored project of Fractured Atlas, a 501(c)(3) charity, so any donations are now tax deductible. If you’d like to support our projects that aim to foster understanding for diverse spiritual belief systems, visit www.clairvoyaging.com/support. 

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Lauren:

Hello, angelic human beings. In today's episode, we talked to Brittany Lilagaard, a breath work guide. We chatted about the importance of your breath, harm reduction in the breath work space, and how to manage anxiety using your breath, which I really needed. I'm Lauren Leon.

Frank:

And I have been changed to harmonize for good.

Lauren:

Oof. We are we are a married couple. That made my hands sweat. Oh. We are a married couple learning how to develop our own intuition, and this is episode 97 of Claire Voyaging.

Frank:

What's going on? Hello, hello. Is this the third time we've tried the intro? Yeah, it is. It's a bifurcation.

Lauren:

No, it's not. No, no. But that's a problem. It's mom. It's mama bears.

Frank:

Can you imagine 97 attempts and no wins?

Lauren:

We've had plenty of wins. You know, sometimes you're just not in a super like promotional mood. So you don't write anything to prom self-promote. You know what?

Frank:

Who needs self-promotion? I'm gonna promote, I'm gonna promote go give someone a hug today. That's that's our promotion. Okay.

Lauren:

That's a great who needs that? Everyone, everyone right now. Everybody. No matter what. If you're listening to this in January of 2026, then you really, really could use a hug from both other people. And if you're listening to this in, I don't know, 2027, what's the future like?

Frank:

Hey, if you're listening to this in 2027, did the collapse happen?

Lauren:

Was Bashar right?

Frank:

Oh yeah. Gosh. I hope.

Lauren:

Bashar had a lot to say. A lot to say, I feel like, over the last year.

Frank:

Let's say it's no, right. Right now. Let's say it's 2027, right? And before everyone left on Fleets of Motherships, someone pressed play on repeat, and it's only Claire Voyaging on Earth. That's it. That's it. It's fart jokes and bad impersonations. And on this one, I drop a real poor Kermit the Frog, and I'm sorry in advance.

Lauren:

But you know, sometimes you gotta just uh just know that things get bad for a little while and then they get better. Right?

Frank:

Everything gets better. Right. All pain is temporary.

Lauren:

So hug hug people. Hug people.

Frank:

And maybe show them your best Kermit the Frog in person.

Lauren:

Everyone, let's do a collective Kermit the Frog. Mine is so bad.

Frank:

What are we gonna say? Let's say it together at the same time.

Lauren:

What are we gonna Oh, we're gonna hold hands?

Frank:

Hold my hand.

Lauren:

My hand's sweaty. Frank's intro just started me off on like pom sweaty palms.

Frank:

What do we Kermit the Frog say right now? Hurry up.

Lauren:

What did he doesn't he say like hi-ho, everybody? Or something.

Frank:

Okay, three, two, one.

Lauren:

Hi ho, everybody!

Frank:

Oh my god. Well. It's time to introduce Britney.

Lauren:

Let me hear yours.

Frank:

No.

Lauren:

No, we don't want it separated.

Frank:

No, no one will know whose was whose because it's all bad.

Lauren:

Awful. But you know what? We're just bringing, we're gonna bring a little bit of joy today. So and so is Britney, because she is just she's just like, I don't know, talk about a breath of fresh air.

Frank:

Oh okay.

Lauren:

You'll hear that I was like very uh anxious about learning how to breathe and still working on it. But it was really helpful to hear her describe it and kind of go into it in a really gentle way. Um yeah, my anxiety comes from a place of like it always comes from breathing. So I really enjoyed this conversation with Britney, and I think I think you will too. There's a lot that you can get out of it.

Frank:

I know a bit about breath work and I learned a lot still. So yeah, Brittany is a champ. So cool. Send it, Lauren.

Lauren:

Go to the moon. Brittany, thank you so much for joining us on Claire Voyaging. We are thrilled to have you here. And also, I love your like cozy sweater. It's cool. Super cozy over there in Colorado.

Frank:

So nice.

Lauren:

Um, we haven't had a breathwork facilitator on our podcast before. And we don't know a lot about breath work, so we're excited to get into it. But first, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? How did you get into doing this? Just a just a small question.

Brittany:

Yeah, a small question with a very long answer. So I'll try and do that.

Lauren:

A lot of answers are very long, but it's great.

Brittany:

Yeah. Um, yeah. So my journey with breath work, um, it's been about a 15-year journey. And it actually started, funnily enough, with losing my breath. Um, my journey with breath work started. Uh, I was in my mid-20s. Um, you know, I think a period for most people where it's uh finding yourself figuring out who you are, um, trying on a lot of different uh people clumsily. And uh I started having panic attacks. And for people who've never had a panic attack before, one of the most common symptoms of a panic attack is that uh oftentimes it makes you feel like you can't breathe.

Lauren:

Yeah.

Brittany:

And uh, you know, sometimes you'll see these little memes that are like, you can go however many weeks without food, you can go however many days without water, but you can only go like a couple of minutes without breath. So we start to really see um uh the hierarchy of needs that our body prioritizes. And so when you feel like you can't breathe, when you're starved of breath, um, it makes it feel like you're dying. And so um, you know, I had um these really intense panic attacks. I didn't know why they were happening. And I was um a couple months into them, I was at a conference watching a teacher of mine uh talk about movement, and he said something that literally like knocked the breath out of me. And it literally was like, if you can't breathe in a position, you don't belong there. Oh he was talking about body movement, right? Like we can think about like if anyone's ever done yoga and the teacher puts you in this weird, like bindy move, and then the teacher so calmly is like, and now breathe. And you're like, oh, you breathe, right? Like you walk yourself out of here. And that's what he was talking about. Like, if you can't breathe in a position, that means that there's something about that position um that you haven't quite earned yet. But for me, it took it a step further. And I was like, oh my God, these panic attacks are taking my breath away. Maybe this is telling me that something about my environment's not in alignment for me. And then later on in that conversation, he proceeds to say, you can't get healthy in the same environment you got sick in. Oof. Oof. Oof, right?

Frank:

He's hitting it hard. Does he know what he's doing?

Brittany:

Um, he's an incredible teacher, Dr. Perry Nicholston of Stop Chasing Pain, for those who are curious. Um, but um, you know, so me being me took this very literally. And within six months of um being at this conference with him, I'd sold everything I owned. Um, I literally was left with what could fit in a 40-liter backpack, and I started traveling the world and backpacking around the world by myself. Um, and I like to say that, gosh, this has been literally 10 years ago this week. Ooh, that I've played that plunge. And I like to say that over the last 10 years, um, I have spent my life learning how to follow my breath.

Lauren:

Wow. So that's sort of uh yeah. I just like starting at the at the panic attack part, like I I can relate to that so well because the response that I when I was also in my 20s, my brother had died, and like a couple months later I started having really intense panic attacks, and I was like, I'm dying. And or I'm going crazy. There was like this really weird thing that was happening to me, and I was like, I can't breathe.

Frank:

The second Lauren gets like overwhelmed by anything, it's immediately like I I know I know exactly how she's feeling because she walks around the house going, it's like she's literally out of breath constantly, and I go, Hey, babe. A, are you okay? And B, please stop. That's so annoying.

Brittany:

Well, first of all, I love that you co-regulate with her. Um I mean, it sounds like a special way of co-regulation, but um regulation. Shut up.

Lauren:

Stop it. That's irritating.

Brittany:

But you know, that's the magic of our breath. And for me, that's really where breath work, building a relationship with your breath and getting started with breath work begins is understanding that our breath is a direct reflection of how we feel in our environment. So it gives you data, like real-time data about everything that's going on. How do I feel when I'm interacting with this person? How do I feel when I'm in this space? How do I feel when I'm moving my body or in stillness? Your breath doesn't lie. It tells you exactly how you're feeling. And that is a really empowering place to come from because then you can say, I know where I am. You can decide where you want to go. And when you have two endpoints, it's a lot easier to create a path that helps you create the life that you want to live, right?

Lauren:

Yeah. No, that that yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Frank:

It's no, it makes all the sense. You know, so so often um we talk about how like we we always talk about the concept of using your body as a map, right? We're so used to in our culture of of repressing our feelings to so that we can power through and like be Vikings. And like, you know, we're not not really supposed to do that all the time. And it's so funny. I'm always talking about you pay attention to your body in terms of like emotions and stuff, or or where certain pains coming up. But the breath, I mean, oh my gosh, this is like a like you said, like it's a live, live data, like it's EKG for your for your situation.

Brittany:

Yeah, well, it's it's it's what connects your mind and your body, right? So, you know, developing that um awareness of your body and that interoception is really huge, but your breath is what's directly communicating between the the brain and the body, and the body and the brain nonstop. So that's sort of the bridge that sometimes people are really um missing when they're connecting with somatic work and somatic practices.

Frank:

You're the only person that's brought up the term interoception, aside from me. I learned it when I worked at that wellness retreat, that wellness company. But like uh ever since then I glued onto it. I'm like, oh, it's such a big deal. Because we always talk about being intro introspective, but interoceptive is such a different concept related, but like a different, different, uh different venue, I guess, you know?

Brittany:

Yeah. Yeah, you know, it's um it's a shame because we have all of these beautiful um primal mechanisms within us that help us um connect and interact with our environment and our relationships. And as we move into our teenage years and adulthood, society really teaches us to dampen those things, right? Like um, as an example, my dog, my dog is a very sensitive uh little girl. And when she's in a situation that overwhelms her, her hackles will go up, she'll get really tense. And then the second she decides it's safe, she shakes it off, right? And you sometimes will see kids like kids have a lot of these like primal connections to you know, rocking, humming, um, all of these inherent tools um that help us regulate within our environment. But then as we move into adulthood, we're told, like, yeah, that'd be really weird if you're walk, you know, rocking back and forth on the grocery store line. So like just don't do that. And so the way we bypass those is by ignoring the sensations to begin with, right? Um, and so we lose a lot of that intrusive connection, which is just understanding the sensations within your body. Is it hunger or is it anxiety? Yeah. Is it anxiety or is it um excitement, you know? Right.

Lauren:

I do feel like kids are more like in tune with exactly like what they need a little bit quicker.

Frank:

Kids, especially younger kids, like they don't have that part of their brain developed yet where they are self-aware and they know how they appear to other people. Yeah. So they are able to like do this without like overthinking it, like we all do, where we have this like this desire to appear stoic or under control all the time. Or you know, which of course, as you know, like like being trying to trying to thwart those sensations and stuff, you do it for long enough and soon you are absolutely out of control. It is now you're just a now you're just a a false front. You're just a shell.

Lauren:

Oh, it's so uh I was just thinking about like the way each of us use our breath, because yes, I I walk around sometimes like and I'm doing this like she's blowing the house down. If I'm just like thinking about stuff, but also and I was doing it just now because I start thinking about it, and my body goes, I need to take a deep breath. And it's a very specific, not everyone understands what I'm talking about, but it's like this like almost it's a deep breath, but it there's like a top of my lungs kind of click feeling that I have to achieve or I'll start obsessing about it. I can't explain. No one really my dad understands, and I don't know if it's because he has asthma and maybe I kind of has have asthma. I don't know.

Frank:

A click?

Lauren:

It's not a click, but it's like a oh, okay, I caught my breath, but it's not just I see it's like a catch feeling, like okay, I got it. Because otherwise I'll just keep obsessing until I calm my body down, and then have you had anyone explain that before? Do you know what I'm talking about?

Brittany:

You know, not in those specific ways, but I definitely think I've felt similar sensations in high stress states, and you know, so how I like to explain the breath, mind-body connection is 98% of our day we're walking around, existing from what I call a brain-down approach to living. So your brain is collecting all of this data about your environment, and then based off of your past history, it's making an assessment about how you should feel about that environment. And then it literally, one of the first things it does is it tells your breath, I feel this way, reflect that.

Lauren:

Right.

Brittany:

And so especially when we're high stress, what happens is we we prepare ourselves for fight or flight or freeze or fun, a lot of different things. But typically that involves breathing from the top part of our lungs more than the rest of our lungs. So I think that sensation for you is like I'm breathing in the top part of my lungs mostly because I'm really high stressed. And the only way I can signal to my body that that stress period is over is by getting that breath into the bottom portion of my lungs. That's probably sort of that little clicky part that you're feeling. Um, and so now when we shift to that awareness, we move to what I call from a brain-down approach to living to a breath up approach to living. Because what's really cool is normally your brain is telling your breath how to respond. Your brain says, I feel this way, and your breath goes, cool, I got your back. But we know that we can consciously override our breathing pattern. So now I can say, um, oh, my brain is telling me that I feel really stressed about my environment. I can feel that in the way that I'm breathing. But now if I choose a different breath pattern, if I choose a breath pattern that feels more calm, cool, and collected, or open and social and excited, and maybe I laugh, if you do that long enough, it overrides how your brain feels about the environment. Which is really cool because now your brain says, Ooh, I totally thought that being on stage in front of 4,000 people should be super scary. But my breath is actually like really light and calm and cool. So actually, this environment's not scary. And now all of a sudden, you have created the environment that you want to exist within rather than your brain creating the environment that you want to exist within.

Lauren:

I love that so much.

Frank:

That's great.

Lauren:

Oh, that's so great. Because I I actually have calmed myself down before um doing like a well, I mean, I'm a performer, so like before a performer.

Brittany:

performance or uh speaking in front of people by uh what you're saying I didn't didn't really realize I was doing it but taking slow long breaths to like override my system and go like well you're fine you're fine everything's fine yeah yeah and it's it's innate to some degree we forget that that tool exists but I also would not be shocked um you'll see this a lot with parents and children and your child is starting to get really worked up right and the parent will naturally with their voice and breath be like it's okay hey there's nothing to be scared about hey can we just talk about it for a second and so through your breath you're starting to co-regulate their breath but like you'll do it without even consciously thinking about it right often it's funny too because I like I learned how to breathe with my diaphragm from learning how to sing but I have I don't I don't make the connection to calm myself down by like breathing from the bottom like part when I'm feeling panicky or stressed it's all up here.

Lauren:

Yeah I don't even I don't even think about that.

Frank:

Can I I'm not a breathwork facilitator but I'm gonna add I'm gonna yes and you here for a second. Because so I have um actually it's I'm working with a like a a a coach like mentor person right now who is actually a guest on the show uh his name is is Nick Musica and he's dope. And uh so when I when I am in these moments of stress what I do is I don't breathe.

Lauren:

Yeah that's that's what I was gonna say is you treat it differently. You stop breathing.

Frank:

I actually don't breathe that much at all. I heard that's not good. Um but I'm I'm I'm aware of like certain breathing techniques to reduce anxiety. Like I have so I I've in the past suffered from panic attacks too and all that stuff. And funny enough to like uh uh confirm your experience as soon as I got out of these systems that weren't working for me I was able to get off of the my like anxiety medication and now I don't have panic attacks and I chug coffee like an MF or so like it wasn't about the panic and the like a chemical imbalance it was it was about living wrong and that's how it presented for me. I'm sure some people again I I don't ever want to tell anybody that they don't need their meds some people absolutely do. But for for me it's always like a good shot to try and like fix your environment first right so so back to Nick though um the way I interface with the world and myself a lot is I'm very very heady uh and I used to be I used to hate that about me and it turns out um the more we've gotten to like astrology and human design it's literally by design that I'm that way it's supposed to be a superpower of mine I was treating it as like bullshit and um Nick is in addition to being like an incredible coach is also a very psychic and he sometimes I'll be talking about like oh well here's what I want to do next here's what I want to do next and he's like Frank plant your feet I'm like huh plant your feet close your eyes and and what he has me do is he's take that awareness from your head and drop it down into your body, into your chest and then he starts telling me to take some deep breaths. And all these things that I had swirling around and these ideas having a forcing that interoception into my breath specifically and then feeling those feelings and my entire vibe changes from like frenetic to like more in tune with what's really going on. And for someone who has spent a very long time trying for me trying to like think like oh I know so much about this stuff. I know so much about this stuff and like like I can help people I can do I I'm starting my own coaching thing even I can help people work their way through this but like doing it to yourself is so difficult. And that I I guess my point was like you were talking about um these feelings and like taking these slow deep breaths right like I'm well I'm sure you you're you're familiar with like box breathing that used to be a way that I would calm down and but the thing is is my head would get in the way so I end up with this conflict of like my breath is saying this but my head is saying you're not safe. My breath is saying you're safe my brain is saying I'm not safe. And it created this inner conflict at the end I'm just like why am I so fucked up but this this idea especially for those heady people out there learn from my stupid please bringing your awareness down and like getting out of your head bringing it down into your body and then taking those breaths I feel like would really make it click that would click for me. And I think that's incredible.

Brittany:

Yeah well and you know to to your point first of all Nick sounds dope. I want to meet him um I without him probably thinking about it in this way but he's helping you learn how to interact with your environment from a breath up place which again my opinion is one of the most empowering places to interact with your environment it's a really incredible space. But with that being said, you know all of us have these innate um like there are certain breathing patterns and the way I like to explain this is like they're like coded into our DNA. And you can like like I can hide somebody's eyes and based off of how they're breathing, you could probably pretty accurately determine what emotional state they're in. It's pretty how much our breath really truly like it's it's like these codes that are encoded. An example that I like to use for example like when someone's wailing they're really upset and crying and when they finally start to come down what happens they go yeah it's okay yeah you know it's like two quick inhales followed by this exhale we all do it we don't think about it but it's like this uh it's this encoded uh part of our system where it says this breath equals this and we all have that and over time our environment and our history and our experiences do start to shape our own breath map in our brain and so you know to some degree um I struggle with when people will Google like breath work for anxiety and there'll be like two or three breath work techniques that consistently come up. And yes those techniques like box breathing um can be really valuable for people in a lot of situations but for some people based off of their own breath map those breath holds might be a really dangerous space in that moment. And so box breathing can actually trigger anxiety.

Lauren:

I was gonna say I feel like I feel like Lauren would hate that now that I that I said it out loud people have told me to do box breathing and I'm like that makes me very panicky. I don't like it at all. And I I keep thinking like maybe I just need to like try it more so that I'm not such a wimp about it. But like I don't like the the process of that.

Brittany:

Didn't someone say you like drowned in a past life or is that you guessing no uh someone told me that okay yeah triggering yeah which I can imagine impacts your breath math right and so like I think one of the best things that people can do and this is why um I teach a breath work facilitator training um and one of the first things I tell all of my students is I'm gonna teach you the rules but I'm teaching you the rules so that you can more intentionally throw out the fucking rule book and like get funky with it because like I mean think about it I to some degree there are uh arenas in which our breath uh can put us in dangerous situations. So when we think about these big explosive transformational type breathing sessions they can make you pass out. And if you're doing that near water if you're doing that while you're driving or if you're doing that while standing like there can be some danger around uh playing with your breath if you're not intentional about the environment that you're doing it in. But with that being said our breath is literally the deepest birthright of every single person that has ever walked on this planet. And like we all have a right to explore and get funky with our breath. And while I may have studied the breath a lot the information that I provide to you will always be reflected to you based off of my own internal breath map and that's not always necessarily appropriate for you. Like we all should be getting weird and explorative with our breath and just because someone says this technique calms you down doesn't mean that that will be your experience with it and that's okay. Yeah.

Frank:

I mean if you're you're saying that like every basically every breath is a data point for us to focus on and and if like we've all been breathing for a long time and you have your own personal history and your own like data bank of knowledge that you have to tap into.

Lauren:

Yeah.

Frank:

And someone like that like someone like you is so good at um yeah bringing your their awareness to the important of the importance of that entire long journal of of data they have uh you know where they they can like tap into their own their own wisdom and their own knowledge.

Brittany:

Yeah well I mean I did study data analysis I was a data analyst for a while and I'm a virgo rising. So um data data's super important.

Lauren:

Yeah wait Lauren are you Virgo Virgo rising no Virgo moon Virgo moon ah okay I like you can't we can be friends in real life I think yeah yeah we we get it I really do talk about my breath a lot and I I don't have I've like kind of I've kind of figured out how to not allow myself to get in a super panicky state if I'm feeling like I can't take that deep breath or whatever. It doesn't happen as often as it used to but what I'd love to know a technique that's not box breathing that's for anxiety or like you know are there other listen I'll answer for her.

Frank:

What you need to do is put on some goggles and a snorkel and go underwater and just breathe through a snorkel for one hour.

Lauren:

You've also seen me try and do that.

Brittany:

I don't hate that idea actually we went snorkeling in in Hawaii and I was a little cold and I was a little panicky and uh like going like and he's like chill go go back to the sand you're scaring the fish away I was told I was drowned I was not not that I I drowned I was drowned in a past life oh you were drowned extra layers yeah yeah well you know okay so this is cool so I also teach cold exposure oh um and you know when you look up benefits of cold exposure online um there are lots of really beautiful benefits that you'll see listed in terms of like cardiovascular health metabolism skin health etc etc etc that's all great that's not why I practice it like a cold plunge like a cold plunge yeah okay um in my opinion the biggest biggest biggest biggest biggest benefit of a cold plunge is that it's stressful right like 90% of the world when they get into the cold what is your immediate reaction that stress breath right it's like straight in the top of your lungs your shoulders go up and your body's just like danger danger yeah in a controlled setting and done with intentionality it's actually not dangerous. So if we go back to learning um how to live from a breath up approach to interacting with our environment I've now created this very intentional and safe container because it is actually safe right where I have that natural urge from a brain down approach to go ice cold danger but now I have the ability to practice leaning into that breath up approach to life where I go nope we're good here. And so that the magic in cold exposure is getting to the point to where you literally have caught your breath and the second you've caught your breath you've just won this massive battle right anxiety and stress is the same way. So again there's like there's all of these techniques that can be beneficial for some people and in certain situations but sometimes that overcomplicates it the best thing that you can do when you're in a high stress state is to find the technique that's going to help you slow your breath down.

Lauren:

That's it if you can so breathing through a snorkel actually forces you to slow your breath down right yeah yeah yeah so I don't like breathing I just I hate that idea we'll we'll we'll work up to that part okay okay she's gonna start walking around your house in a snorkel mask I mean don't worry I'm just a little stressed for a moment there's a snorkel I've got we've got kids and socks everywhere wearing a snorkel wouldn't be so bad interesting there's like a little there's a little claustrophobia for me with us with a snorkel but um yeah I think that I think the key that you're saying is like the slowing down and like really being intentional and coming from the bottom part of like your diaphragm as opposed to and like not letting your upper chest be in control. Right?

Brittany:

Like is that what I'm sure and then yeah and you know what's really incredible um is like there's a couple of principles that our body really likes um in regards to our breathing. So one of those is you know breathing deeper um down I hate to say belly because you're not actually breathing into your belly but getting more expansion of the diaphragm in all directions. Your diaphragm really likes movement and when your brain witnesses movement in the diaphragm your brain really likes that um so anytime we can um give the diaphragm a bit more space that inherently creates more safety for us um a couple other things that are really um that our brain perceives is really valuable when it comes to our breathing is breathing through the nose versus the mouth so our brain says if I'm breathing through the mouth I must be in a a higher stress state right it doesn't mean that it's a bad high stress state right like exercising is a good high stress state but your brain still perceives it as we are in a stressful period right now. So what's cool about that though too is just by closing your mouth and using your nose that automatically forces your diaphragm to work a little bit better. And then the third thing that is really valuable is uh tongue posture. It's like one of my favorite things to talk about we could do like 10 podcasts on this but for a lot of us over time um our tongue can actually atrophy a little bit and it'll start to live in the bottom of our mouth and the tongue really loves to live in the roof of your mouth. A lot of people don't understand this either but your tongue is also a diaphragm. So your diaphragm is going to like the movement accessible to it actually starts with where your tongue is where the diaphragm of your tongue is um and so re-educating our tongue to live on the roof of our mouth also makes us feel safe and you know we we could go down all sorts of rabbit holes for this but it's kind of crazy you can even feel it in yourself like take a moment and just allow your tongue to like press into the bottom of your mouth and now I want you to gently yeah and now I want you to gently swallow in about a midway point of that swallow you'll feel your tongue sort of suction to the roof of your mouth now keep it there. Did you see what just happened I saw it very clearly you may not have like felt it or seen it but when our tongue is in the bottom of our mouth our body follows my body goes when my tongue is in the proper position my posture follows it makes it easier for me to use my diaphragm and my brain goes oh this person is like tall and proud and confident in their posture so they must be tall and proud and confident in their environment oh these are all little yeah these are all little things we can reach for when we're in a high stress state so maybe maybe the breath doesn't feel safe when you're highly anxious maybe you've developed an uncomfortable association with anxiety in your breath. Cool let's bring some attention to your tongue let's feel your tongue on the roof of your mouth and see what that does. Let's bring your attention to the breath inside your nostrils rather than thinking about your chest or your belly and let's see what that does. And it goes both ways we can use these tools immediately in the moment but when I'm not stressed if I could practice all of those things if I can practice creating more space in my diaphragm if I can strengthen my tongue and re educate my tongue to live on the palate if I can re educate myself to breathe out of my nose more than my mouth You'll actually start to see that you just get less stressed less often. Wow. So you can approach it both ways. If it helps in the moment, and it's a tool that if you're using it when you're not stressed, helps you in the long term.

Lauren:

So you're like deep breaths. My tongue should be flat up against the roof of my mouth, right?

Brittany:

It should feel like a gentle scroll in.

Frank:

Yeah. What do you do? Do you not do that?

Lauren:

Making all these mouth noises really.

Frank:

I've never thought about it. No one's ever told me to pay attention to my tongue. Next someone's gonna tell me I'm gonna find enlightenment through my fingernails. But but I was noticing that like my my tongue like rests on the top of my mouth, and I never even thought about that.

Lauren:

No. It naturally rests on the top of your tongue.

Frank:

My tongue's always on the top of my mouth.

Lauren:

No. Mine's not.

Frank:

Maybe you just unlock the future, Lauren. This is Lauren 2.0.

Lauren:

No, like I think this is gonna be I think this is gonna be the thing. When I get stressed, I'm gonna pay attention to like what's my tongue doing.

Frank:

It's such an active, like every present thing.

Lauren:

So it's really it's very present. Yeah. Mine's just on just mine just hanging out. It's not like I don't know.

Frank:

It's not don't tell everyone that your tongue's just hanging out. Oh my gosh.

Lauren:

Oh, it's so interesting though.

Frank:

Um, I something that you you brought up, Brittany, that is really interesting is that well, first of all, let me make a quick note. Uh to all of the jocks that I called mouth breathers in high school. See, I was just trying to help you breathe through your mouth. That that I wasn't being a dick. Um also the like I'm so happy that you said that uh belly breathing kind of sucks. Because when you're doing yoga and stuff, sometimes people will be like, oh yeah, like take a uh like breathe into your belly.

Lauren:

Fill your belly.

Frank:

I'm always just like, no, my belly don't got nowhere. It's got it's got a hamburger from the elbow. Like it always that concept always felt really uncomfortable to me. Diaphragm breathing I can do, but when they're like fill your belly, I'm like, how?

Lauren:

Yeah. Yeah. That never makes sense to me either.

Brittany:

Yeah, you know, it's it's a it's a cue born out of the fact that when you are using your diaphragm, what happens is your diaphragm contracts. And in order for it to contract, it has to press down on all of the contents in your abdominal. And so visually, that gives the sensation that your belly is moving, but the breath is not actually going down there. Um, it's beautiful because every time your diaphragm does contract that much, you get this nice little massage for all of your organs in the abdominal cavity, which is nice. It's like this little love note for like all that gunk that's like all up in that part of your uh person. We don't often think about loving, you know, that part of our body often enough. But the diaphragm, you know, it doesn't exist in this backward, forward state. It exists in an up and down state. And that also requires our ribs to open up, it requires the breath to move into the low back. And when we're just forcing the belly, it almost causes this, like, you know, this uh um desire to put your body in positions that are not necessarily optimal to be uh existing within, right?

Frank:

Yeah.

Brittany:

And also, like, even just me doing it, I'm like, oh yeah, I tuck my pelvis when I really try to breathe into my belly. And like we talked about how the tongue is a diaphragm, and then we have what we call the diaphragm, but then your pelvic floor is a diaphragm too. Um, and if those things aren't stacked on top of each other, and if there's dysfunction in any of those things, it impacts all of the diaphragms in the body. Like all three of those diaphragms work together.

Lauren:

Jenga.

Brittany:

Jenga.

Lauren:

Yeah. Because I'm so like not informed about breath work, I've I've actually been kind of I've heard people talk about it for a long time. Clearly, I have some kind of trigger that has made me not go. I I have not been interested in going to like a breathwork class because I'm like, that sounds overwhelming to me, or like, um I don't know, uh overwhelming. What are the you said?

Frank:

Let's let's point something out real quick though, because she she called it out that you might have developed an unhealthy, like anxiety-based relationship with between your your brain and your breath.

Lauren:

I know. I just said that, that I clearly have some kind of trigger.

Frank:

Yeah. And I know I'm glad I brought this up to everybody right now. It's really important. Just dropping wisdom again.

Lauren:

So like I'm I I'm sure I I should start at some kind of like intro level thing so that I can start like learning how to practice. But I'm just curious, because you mentioned like explosive transformative breath work, something or other. And my brain said, What's that? That sounds scary, but also I'm very curious.

Brittany:

Yeah, so I think it it helps to start with defining what breath work is, and this has become um a little, it's always great when something that is um a really beautiful tool becomes more mainstream. Um, and because our society is our society, um, there's a lot of dirty things that come into play when things become mainstream. And yeah, in regards to the breath, I think we've really lost what the essence of breath work means. Um, and so that's the first best step, I think, in in starting to explore breath work is like what is breath work, anyways. And the way that I like to define it is that breath work is any intentional collaboration with your breath to achieve shifts in your mental, emotional, physical, or spiritual state.

Lauren:

Oh, what a great definition. I feel like we should have started with that.

Frank:

The magic of editing.

Lauren:

Yeah, shift this part to the beginning.

Brittany:

Okay, that's so cool. So when we break that down, um, there's two words that I really like to point out, and it is intentional collaboration. So our breath subconsciously runs on autopilot 20,000 plus times a day. That's how many breaths we take in a day. And thank goodness it does that because again, from a hierarchy of needs, breath really sits at the top. No breath, no energy, death. Very simple. Um, and so like that's such a beautiful part of our bodies functioning, but we also have the ability to uh consciously interrupt that stream, right? So that's where the intentional comes from. It's a conscious decision. I'm gonna interrupt this stream. And I like to use the word collaborate because our breath literally the like it wants nothing more than to see us be alive. And so when we accept that, right, our breath becomes this like beautiful friend rather than this thing that sometimes feels um awkward or strained or anxious or stressed, et cetera, et cetera. That's not your breath, that is your breath delivering messages to you from your environment, right? Your breath is not anxious, state, strange, stressed, overwhelmed. Your breath literally is a messenger. So we can speak with that messenger, we can work with that messenger, we can collaborate with that messenger. That messenger is a really good friend, and hopefully at some point, uh, that messenger becomes a best friend for us on this weird little journey through life. So when we think about it that way, if I tell you to just take one slow breath right now, that's breath work. Okay. Anytime you consciously decide to step in and interrupt the stream, you're practicing breath work.

Frank:

Okay. You're hacking the system. You're doing a full manual system override. Breathe like this.

Brittany:

But what's really unfortunate is that like a single conscious breath, like that's so beautiful. You can do that anywhere. You can be frustrated in a grocery store line, you can be, you know, in the thick of road rage, um, you can be, you know, in the middle of intimacy with your partner. Like you can throw in a conscious breath, just one. Do like anything that you're doing throughout the day. It is really truly that simple. It's like a little check-in with yourself. It's a little check-in with yourself. Like, hey, do I like this environment that I've crafted for myself? Yes, no. Okay, proceed, proceed forward with this new information. But that doesn't sell. I literally just taught you the most powerful thing that you can do with your breath. Please give me $1,000 for telling me you just like check in with your breath every once in a while, right? What sells is like, unfortunately, um, and I teach these experiences, there's value to them. Um, I really appreciate um working with altered states for healing. And you can use your breath to facilitate an altered state. It's incredible. And it's a special experience. It's not the everyday experience. Yeah.

Frank:

Yeah. I was gonna ask you like, what are well? First of all, thank you for that tip on like the single intentional breath because it's thinking about it, it makes me feel like it is the fastest little meditation you can do as like an as an intentional check-in, you know? Yeah, that's like that's really powerful.

Lauren:

That's all my dad will listen to this episode for sure, and that's all he talks about is like staying in the moment is paying attention to your breath. And like when he's he's a singer, he's a professional singer. So like when he's singing, he's always in the moment by being in aware of his breath and taking like the next breath. And he's that's like how he gets his voice so strong, too.

Frank:

And he has a strong voice.

Lauren:

Yeah.

Frank:

Um incredible. And that's interesting though. Oh, it's great.

Lauren:

Yeah.

Frank:

And then the I guess what you were gonna go into right now, I wanted to ask you like, so that's if if taking one one big intentional breath is like a powerful but also very accessible uh form of doing breath work, what does advanced breath work look like? Because I've seen videos of like, you know, yogi looking people who look like they eat like one one piece of cabbage a day, like like sitting there in like a very like tangled position doing the most intense like stomach breathing. Like there's stomachs going in and out, and I'm just like, oh, that's breath work? Breath work's not for me. So like give me a little intro. Exactly. Yeah.

Brittany:

Yeah. So okay. First of all, I really dislike the term advanced when used with breath work, right? Because again, like our breath is like the ultimate birthright that we all are born with. Um, and I think deep exploration of your breath, full exploration of your breath is also a birthright. There's no such thing necessarily as like beginner or advanced. Like there are tools to help you learn to connect if you've become disconnected through adulthood and stress in our environment. But um, you know, theoretically in a vacuum, uh, being able to explore the full expression of our breath is something that should be accessible and available to us all. So I'll use that caveat. Um, I love it. With that being said, um, you know, health issues, environmental issues can definitely um, I just want to honor that um, you know, there are certain explorations of our breath that we lose access to if our health uh declines or moves into certain states. Um, that is a very real part of the breath. But um, you know, there is uh there's many different names for it. This is also one of my frustrations with the breath work space. Um there are these techniques that uh you can work with your breath to breathe in a more like fast-paced uh state. And everyone and their mother has trademarked a different name for basically the same technique. And usually what'll happen is they'll take the technique and then they'll layer something on it, like uh, I teach this, but it's with binaural beats. So I can trademark that. And you cannot now. Um, right, which is such a shame because again, the breath is our birthright. Like there should be no trademarking the breath of any way, shape, or form. But it adds confusion to the person wanting to explore that. It adds a lot of confusion. Um, but when we connect with our breath in these sort of like fast-paced states, it shifts our physiology quickly and deeply. Um I won't get like too too much into the science because it can get pretty nerdy. Um, but literally we can work with our breath. Our breath can very quickly change the pH of our blood, which changes um the concentration of gases in our blood, which then changes um how things are being or not being absorbed in our cells, including our body and our brain. Um, it shifts the wavelengths that our brain is operating in. It quiets and uh amplifies certain parts of our brain. And we can use that to step into these altered states of consciousness, uh, which are really beautiful for deep healing. With that being said, um, you know, I also work in the psychedelic space. And um to really get healing out of an altered state, it really requires um a very intentional container. Uh, it really requires a space where you feel safe. Um and so yeah, if it doesn't resonate with you in that moment, you're not gonna have a good experience with it, right? If you're already saying, like, oh, that thing kind of frightens me, well, like, yeah, that's not a good headspace, right? If we borrow some terminology from the psychedelic space, set in setting, both of those things, your mindset around the experience, and then the safety of the environment in which you're embarking on the experience in, um, those things will impact the experience.

Frank:

Yeah.

Brittany:

Yeah. Yeah.

Frank:

That makes a lot of sense. Oh, that's so interesting.

Lauren:

Even, yeah. You're saying like that doesn't feel safe. That's me, where I'm like, I don't, I don't know what it would take for me to feel actually safe or comfortable doing like even a facilitated like psilocybin like a journey. It it's I it's scares breathing. It might be breathing. Yeah.

Frank:

I mean, uh Brittany's told us that we can like set our own safety basically by by focusing on our breathing intentionally.

Brittany:

Yeah.

Frank:

How about that?

Brittany:

Absolutely. And I do. Like I, you know, a little personal um story. I have had one what I would call very bad trip um in the past. And because of that, every single time I step into a psychedelic journey, there is some anxiety that bubbles up because I don't ever want that to happen again. It was very destabilizing. Um, but what gets me to the point to where I can really surrender and sink into those experiences and still gain a lot of the power out of them is by working with my breath alongside the experience. Yeah. Yeah.

Frank:

That's so awesome.

Lauren:

Listeners, how many of you are putting your tongue on top of your the roof of your mouth? Like I am this whole time. I'm very aware of this now.

Brittany:

You know, if that's what comes out of this podcast, is that more people are walking around with their tongue on the roof of the mouth. That is like a huge thing.

Frank:

And that's when for the next 100 episodes, long on top of this the whole time.

Lauren:

I'm practicing.

Frank:

No one said you had to spend like Kermit the Frog.

Lauren:

I'm practicing. I'm practicing practicing, keeping my the tongue of my Jesus Christ. My tongue on the roof of my mouth. Terrible. I also have been taking uh slow, conscious breaths since we since you said it.

Frank:

You feel good.

Lauren:

I do feel good.

Frank:

You feel good right now. Yeah. It feels good to be next to you. Can you tell? Yeah.

Lauren:

Look at this, Brittany. I I really feel like this is uh this is a turning point for Lauren. I have not I have I've avoided the breath work stuff because I'm like, yeah, it hasn't worked for me before. Box breathing. That's that's bullshit. I don't want to hold my breath for four seconds. Like, which is really like kind of it feels pathetic to say because I can hold my breath, but but yeah, when every time people tell me, like, count, count, count for four, count, you know, take a deep breath for like six seconds or like a really long amount of time, and now blow it out for a really long amount of time. I'm like, oh, I was done four seconds ago. Y'all are still going. Like I'm too stressed for that, or too like, I don't know, triggered, I guess. That's pretty yeah.

Brittany:

Anyway, you know, and I appreciate that so much. Things that you know can help shift that if you want to find more comfort in that space. And at the end of the day, you're your own agent, agent of your breath. And if you never want to get to the place where that's an exploration that you want to step into, do you like you know that's cool.

Lauren:

I do, I do. I've just been too like intimidated by it. But like, even just the simple, like, like baby steps of slow, intentional, conscious breaths and like my tongue, like. and and the bottom up, like those those things are I think I'm gonna take that and then I'll be like, okay, I think I'm ready once I've been practicing more, I'm ready to try like another tool. I love that. We should do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That'd be awesome.

Frank:

Uh you're an incredible wealth of knowledge and thank you so much for spending time with us today. Can you tell everybody where to find you and and and where to uh to book your work?

Brittany:

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Um on Instagram, um you can find me in two different locations. Uh the first is breathwork caravan. That's sort of a more personal page. I do share some breath stuff, but there's also a lot of lifestyle um quirky. I'm very quirky and weird. So that typically gets a little uh amplified there. Yeah. And then uh my organization that I facilitate through is called Move Breath. So movebreath.com, you can also find MoveBreath uh on Instagram. Uh and that's really where I offer um all of my breathwork experiences, my breath work education. Um and yeah really working on expanding those this year. So if anyone has listened to this and you're particularly interested in something I'd love to hear more about uh just what the masses want to see more of. So yeah. Oh amazing very cool. I love that.

Frank:

Thank you so much for spending time with us today and and yeah we will we will catch you soon. I want to chat more. Yeah so nice for sure I want to be friends in real life we can't get out of this like yeah I know wait does that mean I have to go to 10,000 feet to hang out because I'm not there we will be much better with our breath work though I will I still think there's going to be some weezing thank you for listening visit ClaireVoying.com for merchandise or to access free resources to help you on your spiritual journey. Subscribe to our Patreon for more content or join for free to chat with us. Clare Voyaging is a fiscally sponsored project of Fractured Alliance, a 501 C3 charity make a tax deductible donation to support our mission to foster understanding, respect and curiosity for diverse spiritual belief systems. Claire Voyaging is a production of Wayfeather Media

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Frank A. Leon

Co-host
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Lauren Leon

Co-host

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