Clairvoyaging

098: Walking Your Own Intuitive Path // with Fēnix Grace

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We chatted with psychic mentor, healer, and astrologer Fēnix Grace to map a grounded path from overwhelm to clarity, blending intuitive training with trauma‑informed care. She opens up about shutting down her childhood sensitivity, the messy college awakening that followed, and the surprising role a Buddhist monastery played in surfacing stored trauma. 

Together we unpack the real work of “energetic hygiene” and why it goes beyond white light bubbles. Fēnix explains how the body speaks in sensation while spirit speaks in images—and why visualization makes protection and healing practices actually stick. We explore titration over theatrics, replacing guru culture with ethical, consent‑based mentorship. If you’ve ever felt swamped by other people’s moods, you’ll appreciate tools for spotting the subconscious “matches” that let energy in and easy daily clears you can run in a coffee shop. 

If this conversation helped you breathe a little easier, follow the show, share it with a sensitive friend, and leave a review so more people can find these tools. Your intuition is a muscle. Let’s train it—gently, consistently, and together.

To learn more or to work with Fēnix:

Visit: www.fenixgrace.com

Frank and Lauren now offer Spiritual Coaching and Empowerment Workshops. Visit www.clairvoyaging.com/services and use code VOYAGER at checkout for 15% off.

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Warm-Up, Announcements, And Upcoming Series

Lauren

Hello, celestial wizards inhabiting Earth. In today's episode, we talked to Phoenix Grace, a psychic mentor, healer, and astrologer. We talked about intuitive development, energetic protection, and growing into your sensitivity. I'm Lauren Leon. We are a married couple learning how to develop our own intuition. And this is episode 98 of Claire Voyaging.

Frank

Vamos viahedos.

Lauren

Clare Voyaging.

Frank

What it is!

Lauren

Hello, friend!

Frank

What's fresh?

Lauren

Wow. Some pump clubs. Did you hear Frank Spanish on that cold open?

Frank

It took a lot of practice.

Lauren

I'm so proud of you.

Frank

Thanks.

Lauren

That was great.

Frank

Thank you very much.

Lauren

Hi, guys. You know, we've missed you. We keep mentioning that things will shift as we go into our 100th episode because we're very close to that. And beyond that, we're excited to see how the podcast evolves. We're going to be doing some deep dives and like small series on certain topics. So I just want to say if there's something that you want us to get into, send us an email at Clearvoyagingpodcast at gmail.com or write a comment on Spotify or send us a text.

Frank

Throw it somewhere. We'll find it.

Listener Requests: Spirit Boards And Witchcraft

Lauren

Send it by pigeon and we will we will get it.

Frank

I don't have my pigeon receiving setup available at the moment.

Lauren

Yeah, okay.

Frank

But please give me a reason to have that. Nah, I'll do the pigeons. I'll have it worked out by the time they get here.

Lauren

Send us a raven.

Frank

Oh. That's cool. Um yeah, some examples of topics. Something that came up recently. Someone's like, Frank, you kinda you kind of danced around like uh spirit boards, Ouija boards a little bit, and we want to know more about it. I said, okay. I'll I'll I know a bit, but let's let's talk about it. So I think we're gonna do a Frank deep dive on that.

Lauren

Yeah. Frank's our researcher, as as you have come to know and love about him.

Frank

Yeah, and I I'll along with that, the more like occult as a like deeply occult stuff. Um somebody brought up uh we want a little bit more on witchcraft. And I said, that's fine. That's fine. It falls into the clairvoyaging uh uh umbrella.

Lauren

Yeah, so then I I I would I'm going to be doing a series on inner child healing. So um some episodes will be both Frank and I. Some we will kind of take take the helm and be separated. Don't worry. We always come back together and collaborate. What's this? He's holding my hand.

Frank

Listen, this is not going to be I'm so nervous. What is that? What? Like a consensual decoupling.

Lauren

A conscious uncoupling.

Frank

What a stupid. I mean, cool.

Lauren

You know, great job, Gwyneth.

Frank

Thanks, thanks, pepper pots.

Lauren

No, uh, but you know, it's just a way for us to stretch ourselves our uh various uh practices. So yeah, I'm excited to see how this goes.

Frank

On the whole, like what's gone on is that Lauren is doing things in groups and I am doing things in individuals. So and we have like different takes on that. So and but different, but related. So um extremely related. Too related. So we're trying trying some new things.

Workshops, Access, And Free Spots

Lauren

Yeah. Well you just mentioned my group stuff. And I want to just say that we you hear it in the pre-roll, right? You've heard it. I have a workshop that has launched. It is uh available for sign up as of now. Um it starts March 4th.

Frank

But ideally, these are still going on on a rolling basis. So check the website, see when the next one is and sign up.

Lauren

Yeah, it'll be one session per week for four Wednesdays. If you can't do that one, there's another one that starts on Fridays. So take a look and see if it is of interest to you. Also, I'm collecting a waiting list for I'd like to have a few free seats, free spots available. So if you're interested in that, will you send me an email and I'll send you the link?

Frank

You know our thing is not wanting like uh financial constraints if that's a thing. We we're really interested in the healing.

Lauren

Yeah.

Frank

So like get on that list if you need it.

Lauren

Yeah.

Frank

And yeah.

Lauren

Yeah. Grab a free spot.

Frank

Oh grab a free spot.

Lauren

Sure. Come on. Come on. Everybody needs healing with that.

Frank

Come on. Everybody needs healing.

Lauren

I need it right now. You can hear my cold. Can you hear my cold? Ugh, children. Am I right?

Frank

And I'm pretending not to have one.

Lauren

You're doing a great job.

Frank

Thanks.

Lauren

Okay. Let's get to Phoenix.

Frank

Phoenix.

Lauren

We we were like, can we hang out? She's so cool.

Frank

You will really I almost didn't let her get off get off the call. I was like, I know.

Meet Phoenix Grace

Lauren

Uh you stick around now. You stay here now. Yeah. We really enjoyed talking to Phoenix. I think you'll really like the conversation. Um, our her insight is really awesome. And let's let's get to it.

Frank

Let's send it. Let's send it.

Lauren

Let it rip.

Frank

That's a little weak.

Lauren

Okay. Let the beat drop.

Frank

Oh nice.

Fēnix

Thanks.

Lauren

Phoenix, thank you so much for joining us on Claire Voyaging today. We are thrilled to talk to you. Um, can you start with your backstory? And what what are you working on? What do you do now and what led you here?

Childhood Sensitivity And Shutting Down

Fēnix

Hell yeah. Hello. It's so good to be here. It's really good to be here. Um, thanks for having me. Yeah, so I grew up on an island off the coast of New Jersey. And um as a young child, as I feel like I see most children are, I was incredibly sensitive and sensitive to the world of energy and sensitive to the world of spirit. And I learned pretty quickly that telling my dad about the sad ghost that I was talking to in the closet was not going to get me connection with him, but was just gonna send him into fear.

Lauren

Oh gosh.

College Awakening: Reiki, Psychedelics, Toxic Bonds

Monastery Time And Trauma Surfacing

Fēnix

Yeah. And so, as I think a lot of people do, I shut down my intuitive abilities as a young child. Um, and you know, I grew up in a Polish uh Catholic kind of vibration in my family on my mother's side and was raised by my mom. And um uh we grew up across the street from the church, and so it was just this like presence in my life growing up, you know. I was like, I like to say I was like an altar boy, you know, like I wore the robes, I carried the candles for the the priest, and um always always often with like kind of just this feeling like I was being forced to do that. Um it wasn't necessarily something that I chose. Um and then when I was a teenager, uh, you know, I grew up, you know, was in high school, I entered a fuck God phase as you do. Um and um just was in a lot of you know teenage rebellious energy, like God isn't real, just really rebelled against like my childhood upbringing, right? In terms of Catholicism. And uh then when I went to college, I was about 18, 19, I like to say that like a number of different things started to weave together that sort of resulted in this spiritual awakening. One, I was trying mushrooms and acid for the first time. Um, two, uh, I had a Reiki attunement because I was just kind of open to new things and was exploring, and someone was doing a Reiki thing on my college campus, and I got a Reiki attunement and what I know now, which I didn't know then, right? Where that attunement is essentially sort of opening up um certain levels of your crown chakra. And uh, and then the third thing, which was all very much happening and a part of this awakening for me as well, was like I was in a really karmic, very um codependent, very deeply toxic relationship at the time. And so it was kind of having me just really uh a lot of shadows and things were coming up in in my face, and I was very unequipped to handle them. But all of that coalesced into just this like moment of spiritual awakening when I was 18 or 19, and I just very um kind of suddenly became very sensitive to energy, and I became very like aware of the spiritual world in a way that I hadn't been before, and I was incredibly overwhelmed. I was like so overwhelmed by that sensitivity. I mean, it was like you know, at college, like all this pressure from academia, the overwhelm of other people's energy, and um and so I dropped out as as you do, right? Yeah. And I decided to kind of start walking my own path. And I uh decided to travel around. Um, I decided to kind of explore different spiritual communities. I spent a good amount of time at a Buddhist monastery in Southern California. Um, I also during this time, you know, I was exploring all the new age stuff, right? Like ecstatic dance and like uh more Reiki and just like all that kind of uh spiritual stuff to some degree. And during that time, I also definitely, as a young woman, experienced um running into just the shadows of that world and the shadows of spirituality where I uh experienced like manipulative, abusive um male spiritual teachers, some female spiritual teachers, just a lot of shadow um with regards to spirituality. I'm a Scorpiostellium after all, so you know, gotta explore that shadow. And um, and then I my path ended up uh where I ended up going back to school and grounding in Boulder, Colorado. I went to Naropa University, which is kind of like a Buddhist liberal arts college, and it was really in Boulder where I started finding grounded psychic, spiritual mentorship. And I started really training in the lineage of psychic training that I now teach, which is a kind of spiritual training and clairvoyant development. And that really just um helped me get into my body. It helped me learn how to actually discern between what energy is mine and what energy is not mine. It helped me open up my third eye so I could start to really perceive and relate to the world of energy from a place of consciousness and awareness. And that's where I really started walking my path more. And I just like never stopped. Like I studied psychic development, that was like 10 years ago, and I've just never stopped taking classes, never stopped developing my healing abilities, my ability to read and interpret energy. And so, you know, now I'm a professional psychic. Um, I do do readings and healings, but my real passion is in training other intuitives, and I've been doing that for the last four years. Um, really training other highly sensitive people to awaken and develop their own intuitive abilities so that they love themselves more, that they can heal themselves and that they can help other people heal. That's amazing.

Lauren

Wait, so when you were in high school or a teenager, was there a moment that caused you to say, fuck God? Like that's quite a turn. Yeah, you know, it is.

Body–Spirit Weaving For Healing

Fēnix

It's um yeah, so for me, um I see that as like related to two things. One, as a teenager, I mean, as a teenager, I was like incredibly depressed, you know, like I was really just looking back, right, with the perspective that I now have at me as a teenager. I I was just like an incredible sponge, like an energy sponge. I was just like soaking up all the energy that was around me. And I was inundated with like other people's energy to the point where I it was really hard to um know who I was. Um I it which it kind of leads me to like the when I first got one of my first Reiki healings during that sort of more awakening moment after the teenage fuck god moment, one of the first things that the Reiki healer uh told me was like, Oh, you know, I have a message from Source for you. And you know, that message is be you. Oh, and I could have learned that from Sesame Street, and at the time, yeah, I was kind of like, okay, you know, be you, that's so simple. I don't even know what that means, you know. But honestly, it wasn't until like last year where I was reflecting on that, and I was like, that was fucking profound. Yeah. Because like I wasn't being me, I was being everyone else. And that was just the nature of being a sensitive person and not knowing how to manage my energy, right? And not knowing how to own my spiritual ability of being a transmedium, which is my ability to become something that I'm not, right? When I channel a being, I'm becoming something that I'm not. That's that's a spiritual ability. And I just had no mentorship or direction around that at all. And so it just resulted in sort of this depression and intense self-loathing, and like just a lot of just not knowing who I was and becoming everyone else, right? Becoming who I was, who I was around. And so a part of the fuck god was kind of that. A part of it was also just that teenage rebellious spirit kind of human development kind of moment, which maybe I'll resonate with, where I just observe, you know, I remember being an 18-year-old, a 20-year-old, 21st-year-old, and just like, I just wanted to blow shit up, you know, I just wanted to change the world and wanted people to get on board. And like, it's just, you know, like there, there's that African proverb, which could probably use better crediting, but I don't know, and I don't know if it's even shared, but it's like, right, the youth, if you don't like tend to the youth, they will like burn the village down. So it's like there is that like fire young like spirit that I feel like is present at that time and just in terms of development, and it resonates for everyone differently, but like that was a part of me sort of rebelling and being like, you know, uh against what I had been taught. And I think that's just kind of natural to some degree, too.

Lauren

Yeah, yeah. It is interesting thinking about like teens having that um, I don't know, like carrying other people's energy all the time. And I feel like people don't talk about it enough in a school, like teen setting, or even with you know, younger than teens, like kids carrying each other's energy, and like the if you were able to ground yourself truly when you were that age, I don't know. Maybe it's maybe there's a little less depression or something. Yeah, probably like yeah, it's really interesting to think about. You're just like, I mean, there's so much stuff all the time.

Frank

Or just to have those the spiritual tools of discernment. Like this is you, this is them.

Lauren

Right.

Frank

Be yourself.

Lauren

Be you.

Frank

Be you.

Lauren

Yeah, you know. Yeah. We need we need those tools taught in in school.

Frank

I wish we knew teachers named Phoenix.

Fēnix

Yeah, right? What schools? Yeah, then get me in your schools, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I totally agree.

Frank

I think that wait, you should start a school called the University of Phoenix.

Fēnix

It'll really confuse people, but then people will be like tricked into like learning spiritual tools.

Lauren

Yeah.

Fēnix

I think um, I think society at large is kind of catching up. Like right now, people are like, oh, emotional health, that's real, or mental health, that's important, right? And it's like we're kind of getting there where it's like, yeah, energetic health, spiritual health, like that is also really important. Being able to learn how to manage your energy, right? Which is an aspect of energetic or spiritual health, caring for your spiritual self, your spiritual body in that way. It's just as important as physically showering, right? You want to take the energy shower too.

Lauren

Yeah. We when we leave like uh a busy event or like a birthday party or something with our family. We have two small kids. We get in the car and sometimes we call it a car shower or a car wash. Car wash. Car wash. And we go, everybody, let let go. There's a lot going on in this car right now. Like, everybody, let everything go. You know, some of this stuff is not ours. And then it's so amazing. I release what does not belong to me. We like do these, brush our brush our bodies off to get the energy.

Frank

Open the window, throw it out.

Lauren

Yeah, throw it out the window. Oh my god, I love that. Your kids are so lucky. That's so awesome.

Frank

I mean, we've had like it's okay, we're scarring them in other ways, don't you know?

Navigating Family Fear And Autonomy

Lauren

I'm sorry, yeah. Get in the shower. Stop talking, it's time to go to bed. Um, but yeah, I mean, we've been lucky enough to like literally speak to people like you once a week to have these tools and raise them in a certain way. Did was your family like, what the hell, Phoenix, when you were in, you know, like backing away from the church, or was it like, oh, she's gonna walk her own path?

Fēnix

It was less, it was less the church. Um, my parents and just my family in general, most of the people around me were like, what the hell when I dropped out of college? You know, they were like, Yeah, um, okay, we could take you sort of like finding your own path within these limits, you know. Yeah. But then when I was kind of like, I'm dropping out of college, I have no idea where like where I'm going or when I'm going back or if I'm going back, or I want to follow this more like spiritual path. They were like, what? You know, and that was speaking of energetic health, right? Like that was such a time um looking back, right? Where I can, and throughout the course of my life, I've kind of had to always sort of uh navigate this growth period or this experience of kind of growing and um getting my space to my family's fear, right? Because and maybe I'll relate to this and people who are listening to relate, but like I love my family, they love me. The best way they know how to love me sometimes is through um throwing a lot of fear at me.

Frank

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I feel like that's like what parents do.

Fēnix

And I'm like, I'm not gonna blame them for that, that they're doing the best they can, but also it impacts me, and so I need to like work my space so that I can have that be less and less of an impact on me, so I can actually choose my own path.

Lauren

Right, yeah, and not like start operating based on what their perception of fear for you is. Yeah.

Frank

I mean, you uh we have a tendency to treat our kids and our parents treat us this way as like a movie we've seen before. Like, oh, I know this character. Oh, oh, oh no, if you do that, this is gonna happen. I've seen this one, yeah. And and like, you know, not allowing for small mistakes and growth and and and all this stuff. Our daughter is very much a hard lessons person.

Lauren

Uh-huh.

Human Design: Trial-And-Error Lives

Frank

And I can talk to her until the cows come home, and then I'm like, oh, okay, I'm I'm I'm I'm my dad now. I've become I've become my dad. Yeah. But you know, it's letting letting it's so tough to see people, you know, going through hard times, seeing this but people you love going through hard time and letting them carry that out and being supportive. They'll find their way faster and in a in a better health space if you're supportive along the way. Cool, go do that. Don't hurt yourself, but go do that. You know what I mean?

Fēnix

Yeah.

Frank

I trust you, that kind of thing. Yeah. Because the whole thing of this kind of journey is that we're also learning to trust ourselves on that path, right? And yeah, I mean, you probably know all about it. Like externalizing your externalizing your power. I I have a thing where I always I need to understand myself. Through context of the things that go on around me. Right. And if you feel like you need to, you know, like go work at a Buddhist monastery for context to see if that works for you. That's kind of awesome. You know? How was that?

Fēnix

Um, before I answer that, what you're saying reminds me a lot because I know y'all are into human design from listening to the podcast. I'm a three-five in human design. Wait, I think that's what I am. I just suddenly so from listening, like there's that resonance, but I think you mentioned when you had a third line.

Lauren

I love it. I forgot you gotta look it up.

Fēnix

Oh, three five too. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like Are you an MG? Yeah, I am. I am also an MG.

Lauren

All right. Okay. Trial and error, baby.

Fēnix

Trial and error, right? My life has been an and will continue to be like an insane roller coaster of trial and error and learning so much from learning what doesn't work, right? And ironically, both of my parents are actually also three fives. And so there's like an interesting dynamic between like, right, like how you were saying about being a parent, giving your child space to kind of like, especially as a three-five, like fuck up and make that mistake and learn and grow from it. So yeah. So anyway, um, yeah, the three five life. I wonder if your daughter is a three-five or has a three four.

Lauren

She is, no, she's a two-four. Two four, interesting.

Fēnix

Yeah.

Lauren

The natural. Yeah. She is just this for her, it's just stubbornness and yeah. I know what I'm doing. You don't know. And we're like, okay. And then the thing that we, you know, warned against happens, and we're like, why do you want to learn the hard way, man? Yeah. Yeah. She's eight. So, like, you know, we we we give her some some space of that. Of course.

Frank

What am I again? One four. So of course I want to be like, You're a one-four. I'm the I've I've looked this up. I look, I've looked this up, Gene. You can't do that because this is gonna happen. And I know you, I know you. I've been studying you since you were born.

Lauren

I did all the research. Yeah.

Frank

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's fine.

Lauren

The investigator.

Parenting Sensitives And Energy Showers

Frank

Hang out with that jerk kid. I'm sure she'll change tomorrow.

Fēnix

Dude, I mean, I'm not a parent, I want to be, but like parenting seems to be like the most like hardcore spiritual experience you can have on the planet, honestly.

Frank

It's wild.

Fēnix

It really is. Yeah. Yeah.

Lauren

Yeah.

Frank

But it's also like you've it's it's uh there's a there's a dichotomy between like I still feel like a kid, I'm still learning, I'm still going through life, and now I have to raise one. And um allowing her to have the growth opportunities that I didn't necessarily have, or you know, it's it's weird.

Lauren

It's been interesting to like have this podcast um where we've learned from so many people like you, where we were parents already when we started this, and it's kind of helped inform how we gently support our kids with you know energy protection and mantras and boundaries, you know, like all the things. Yeah. That is so cool.

Frank

Yeah. Yeah. I was also I was a very sensitive kid, and the strategy was to toughen up, you know what I mean?

Fēnix

And for a man, of course, yeah.

Frank

Oh, of course.

Fēnix

Right.

Frank

That's the major uncle program. And look at me, I'm so tough now. I wear, I wore a I wear a quartz pendant around my neck. I'm a tough man.

Lauren

I love that. We we we went off track. We were gonna talk about you were gonna tell us how the monastery was.

Faster Healing Through Practice And Titration

Fēnix

Yeah, you know, so it was um Teeknot Hans Monastery in San Diego, actually. Um right outside Escondido. Escondido is where it is. So um Deer Park. And um I mean, that was a really powerful experience because for the first time in my life, probably. I mean, like I kind of did some yoga classes and stuff in high school, like I was that kind of kid in the sense where I was like, right, I was open, even though I was sort of absorbing all these different things. Where I really started to sit with myself, right? Because that's what we did there. We sat a lot in meditation. Um and that's when um a lot of like trauma from my past actually started to come up for me, like where I uh, you know, had um moments of realizing, like, oh, of like sexual abuse when I was younger, you know, or something like that. Like it right, like the way that your that your body protects you is you forget those things. And then it was like when I was sitting with that with all that stuff started to come back. Um and it was interesting because I think my journey since then, especially, has always been uh this like interweaving between like the world of spirit and then the world of the body, and like how do you heal trauma in both areas? Because they really are both involved. And I think a lot of people can kind of uh go towards one extreme or the other, um, like really into the spirit realm or really into the body realm. And in my personal experience of healing, like my own healing has been having to really weave both of those kinds of realms together to get like yeah, to get like cohesive healing. Um and so that was the monastery was really kind of where it's that a lot of my self-healing sort of started, but it was a long path to actually really resolving those things. Um yeah, you said same, Lauren. Do you resonate with that?

Lauren

Yeah, I I I mean, the like we started when we started this podcast, it was like, let's let's see if we can in you know enhance our intuitive abilities. Like we're both we don't we don't call ourselves like clairvoyant or I mean now maybe claircognizant or I wouldn't go that far. But like we were like, can you develop your intuition? Hell yeah. Um, it was sort of the like question, the thesis um that we were we were gonna answer. And part of it was like, I'm like, I've heard of Reiki, I've had one session, you know. Maybe I'm gonna go learn how to actually do it and be, you know, get Reiki attuned and all that. So that began my like self-healing journey, which I had been, you know, for years, like I've healed a bunch of stuff like in my mind, you know, you know, trauma and relationships and and and whatever, like I'm pretty good. And then I got into the Reiki class and was like, oh no, we're this is a journey and it's just getting started, and then thus began a two-year process, basically like a full like year of stuff, and it was learning how to like listen to your body interoception, and then also like understanding how to kind of talk to like my spirit guides or the universe, so yeah. Yeah. I mean, I feel like you've been doing the same thing.

Beyond Gurus: Trauma-Informed Spirituality

Frank

Yeah. You know, at some point, especially like you know, how you manage like your past traumas, right? I mean, you you know about this. You think you you've worked past it. That's something that happened in the past. We don't we don't need to address that anymore. Uh I'm over it. And like you get into quiet moments and quiet spaces, and you're like, oh, I'm carrying a deep quiet pain with me everywhere I go, and it's affecting my decisions and how I move forward. And I I now have I now have what the community calls a self-limiting belief or some kind of guilt, or and it literally it's not logical, it's not something you've thought about, it's something that that is a part of you. It's calcified when you left it alone without addressing it. And you know, we we've talked about on the show, especially in the last couple of episodes, a lot about you using your body as a map. The like integration of body and spirit is one system. They are separate, but they are one thing at the same time, and they inform each other. And by turning one off, you're ignoring the other, you know. Um and people try to think their way out of these things a lot, you know, and and like come with, oh, I I want to be this way and I'm gonna do this stuff. And and without and they're trying to override their subconscious and what their body is telling them and not address it. And it it comes down the line later. It's gonna come back if you don't address it now.

Lauren

Yeah.

Frank

And that's like and that's what we're all about these days, is like getting down to what's the what's the you know, for and and and people ignore it too, because it seems like it's gonna be a big ass job to get through.

Lauren

Yeah.

Frank

And we're trying to figure out like what's the best way to get through it meaningfully, but also quickly, so it doesn't feel like your entire life has to be flipped upside down to heal or be spiritual, you know?

Fēnix

Yeah.

Frank

And that's the you're talking about like inner intertwining how this this works. I mean, that's it's kind of a a bit of a mission for us right now is to figure out exactly how this works in a westernized coffee shop kind of way. Like I can I could do this at a coffee shop in 10 minutes, someone's gonna see me cry. But that's okay.

Lauren

Do do you find like because you've been doing that healing work for so long that now do you get there quicker when when it comes to like, oh, I've identified this this thing, this trauma or this pain or whatever that has come up, and I'm I've processed it faster than I maybe would have 10 years ago.

Fēnix

A million percent. Yeah. I feel like I always tell my students and the people that I work with, it's like it's never that you don't find shit, you know, to work.

Frank

Like in the shit's there.

Lauren

Yeah, it's always like there's always new shit.

Energetic Hygiene And Subconscious Matches

Fēnix

There's always stuff to work with. And what does change because healing, um, and especially the way that you know I've worked and the way that I teach is like using your intuition, right, to heal yourself, um, to peer into your subconscious, to have that more uh, you know, I really see intuition as this incredible ability that we all have. It's like a muscle, you can work it out, and it really makes you more conscious of what is there for you to work on for yourself, right? And so when you work out that muscle, it gets stronger and stronger, and the process gets um smoother and quicker. Um, right. Like I had a teacher once who was saying, um, you know, it's not that I don't lose my space, it's that I lose it and I like reclaim it so quickly you don't notice. You know, and so it's like it's just it does get in my personal experience, like I'll go through some kind of, you know, like I was just working on a really deep core sort of painful memory a few days ago. And I was like, oh, I have the podcast in a few days, you know, like am I gonna sort of emotionally be ready? Right. And I'm like, yeah, because it just like it cycles through, right? Like and whereas like five years ago, 10 years ago, that would have taken me months, you know, or something like that. It does sort of just and I see that as related to just like it's like, you know, I use the metaphor building a muscle a lot because it's just like your muscles just get stronger, you know, your body gets more used to lifting more weight. Yeah. Um, but kind of what you're saying around how do you situate this in our current world, something that I really love from like the trauma world that I've learned and has definitely been true in my experience is that experience of like, or that principle of titrating, right? Where it's like, this pain is actually too much for me to feel 100% right now, all in one moment. If I actually just spend like 10 minutes with it every so often, that's actually going to be a much more like nervous system-friendly way to work through my healing. And that's where I've kind of struggled with some spiritual spaces out there, is there can be, and maybe y'all resonate with this, but like a lot of like emphasis on the catharsis, right? Where it's like go in really hard and do it, you know? And I'm just like, where am I?

Frank

I don't know if the Shia LaBeouf method is the way to go.

Fēnix

And I'm like, that is not trauma-informed, people. Like you can trauma-informed energy work, where it's like you don't have to address it all in one moment. You probably just don't have the capacity to do that. And if you do, you kind of like blow out your nervous system. Right. Yeah. Dip a toe.

Frank

It's funny because we kind of yeah, we also want to get to the big things, but like we've been talking about for people that aren't aren't comfortable with the space, sometimes chipping it away at the like the guy who stole your parking spot last week and your anger surrounding that. Let's start with that.

Lauren

Yeah, yeah.

Frank

And like let's get let's build that muscle. That's an easy one. Let's get over that. Yeah. And then and then maybe getting towards the the bigger thing later. But like, yeah, I mean it's it's for the the the like gurus that want to shock you. I I sometimes feel like that's that's kind of like ego for them too, because they want you to have a cathartic experience under under their eye.

Spirit Speaks In Images

Fēnix

Totally. That is a part of what I've had to kind of work as I became more of like a you know advanced healer, right? Where I was like, how do I not make this about me? Yeah. Yeah. Right. I think that's a really critical step that you take as a healer as you develop. It's like, you know, taking your fourth chakra out of it, right? Like your sense of self, like not healing from that place. Um, yeah, totally. I agree with you around the guru thing.

Frank

I do genuinely feel like we're moving out of a period of gurus and uh like traditional leadership and well, because yeah, a lot of them are we're finding out that they're corrupt.

Lauren

Really possible.

Frank

A lot of them are in files that are being released by the DOJ right now. Yeah, I know, I know.

Lauren

It's like, oh, maybe, maybe those gurus don't know everything.

Frank

You know, maybe they're not as wise as we think they kind of feel like Phoenix should have just spent more time with the the the Catholic priests. That was probably the right way to go about it.

Fēnix

Probably should have just given all my spiritual power to the Catholic priests. Yeah, exactly.

Frank

Yeah, they're safe.

Fēnix

I actually had a cool dream. This is reminding me of like a number of years ago. Because so I had a dream a few years ago, experience on the astral, where I was giving a healing, you know, like an energy healing to someone. And the Catholic priest that I grew up with like came and approached me. And um, and he was like watching what I was doing. He was like, oh, that's really interesting, that's really cool. Like, and he was being almost like kind of inspired and like accepting, and then like walked away. And when I came back into my body the next morning and was kind of reading the energy of that dream, and I was like, What was that? You know, yeah, it was just sort of like me coming to terms with um the right, like that validation from that like spiritual power that I had had in my psyche as a child, right? And like it's actually valid the kind of spirituality that I'm practicing or teaching or doing these days, right? Um, right. So yeah.

Lauren

Yeah, that really speaks to like your your subconscious too, that you have so much just like zero doubt in your work, too.

Visualization Challenges And Gentle Practice

Frank

That is cool. Also, like you know, moving forward, sometimes we we we do choose an enemy, you know, as an example of what not to be. And and the truth is like, you know, you're you're yesteryear's uh uh a Catholic priest, they're people of their time, right? And like if they wanted to get into spirituality, that was probably what was available to them if they were over. True. So they can't all be bad, you know. Yeah, or or they didn't get caught. One of the two. Let's just say they're not all that bad all the time. Some of them are.

Lauren

It's a good thing you have zero religious trauma.

Frank

Oh, it's fine. What? Because I know predators on a first name basis, yeah, it's good. We're fine.

Fēnix

Um, I want to speak to what you said, Lauren, about the doubt, because I feel like that's so um, I love that reflection. Like, thank you for that reflection because I feel like the that's something that as an intuitive, and maybe you all have had this experience too. Um, the self-doubt is one of the major things that I feel like I help my clients and like my students with. And I'm always telling them it's like we are socialized as highly sensitive people in this culture that invalidates intuition, that invalidates the spiritual world. It's like you're gonna have to spend a few years clearing that shit out, you know, like and it and it eventually does get to that place, right, through practice and through letting go of all that social energy in your space that isn't you, um, where you do come to a place where you have way more like certainty and um confidence. I'm thinking like, what's the opposite of doubt, right? Like confidence and trust in your own intuitive abilities, but it's a process.

Lauren

I yeah, I think that's a long process for for a lot of people. Just yeah, what yeah, yeah, sure is including the two people at this table.

Frank

Still working through it. Yeah, I personally, like I've noticed I've let go of a lot, a lot of the self-judgment of even being in this space now. Yeah, having grown up as a very sensitive person. Um, and even in in the last few months, uh, as I'm like living more into this world, I'm finding myself being even more sensitive, or I should say like my core sensitivity is returning, and I'm like quicker to tears, quicker to emotions and stuff like that.

Lauren

Yeah, that's true.

Frank

And at the same time, I'm like, fuck, this sucks. Because I am to a certain extent like relearning how to interact with the outside world, you know.

Lauren

Yeah.

Directing Vs Receiving Intuition

Frank

Um, from a more sensitive standpoint, which I had masked for such a long time. So, you know, we have we live in a nice neighborhood now, and there's like a bunch of our kids are friends with a bunch of parents on the street. They're always outside and everyone wants to hang out, and I'm like, too much. I need space. I'm learning how to do this all over again, you know. Yeah. But at the same time, I know that there's this isn't optional, you know? Like living into your true authenticity is not optional, and we all need to do it more if we're gonna keep moving in the right direction.

Lauren

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've been this has been a whole journey of like just not living your life based on the potential of someone else's opinion, like the possibility of someone else's uh negative opinion, which is ultimately just like that inside, like that voice that's the worst person to sit next to, you know, that's like you're not you're not you're not good at this, you're not supposed to do this.

Frank

Like I've labeled this a panel of impossible judges that live inside you.

Lauren

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like stopping yourself from doing everything you want to do just because of those stupid judges.

Fēnix

Yeah, right. And like my my question to that is always like, is that your energy? Right? Like whose energy is that that is like shitting on you? Because I'm like, you as a soul, you don't hate yourself. That's like antithesis to being just a soul, like you don't invalidate yourself like that.

Lauren

That's just not what happens. Yeah, it's so many other people's voices or opinions or your expectation of what it might be. Yeah.

Frank

Judgment you might have uh in that's been inferred in your direction at some point that you've internalized and held on to.

Lauren

Right.

Frank

It can't you it can be let go of.

Lauren

Yep.

Frank

It needs to be.

Lauren

It is it is currently being let go of.

MG Energy, Projects, And Learning Styles

Fēnix

What I always say with regards to that is like if you picked it up, you can put it down, you know, like you can put it down. Yeah. But what you're saying, Frank, about sensitivity is so real. And when you're talking about that, I was like, you know, looking at the energy of that, it's like uh becoming alive again. Like that's really it's like becoming alive is like really the path of like resensitizing. Because in my view, um, what I see resensitizing.

Frank

I like resensitizing.

Fēnix

Resensitizing.

Frank

I don't mean to interrupt you, but I don't know if you've noticed one of you say something that's really cool. Lauren and I both go, mmm, like we're eating a nice piece of chocolate cake.

Fēnix

I do too.

Frank

Sorry, continue.

Fēnix

I love the giving and receiving it. Um, what was I gonna say? I think a lot of like a lot of what I um uh help sensitive people with too, and has definitely been a part of my own path, is right, that like like a lot of people who come to me will be like, you know, I'm so overwhelmed by other people's energy, right? And it's just like that doesn't need to be your forever experience as a sensitive person, right? You build the like muscle of your intuition, you build uh like you know, your ability to manage your energy, um which is what I teach, like that becomes stronger and stronger. And it doesn't become that you become less sensitive. Actually, my experience, you become more sensitive, but you become more aware and more empowered and and know what to do with it.

Lauren

Right. That's interesting. Yeah, we we've had like I know some of our listeners who have written to us the I I remember a couple of them saying, like, I'm super kind of bogged down by other people's energy, and like um what what's like the thing, what's like something that you teach your students on how to kind of not not not bubble yourself, but like a little bit.

Frank

Yeah, what is the strength of like because you you had said earlier that you like yourself were very like porous in in terms of picking up other people's energy.

Fēnix

Yeah.

Frank

And now you seem like a badass. So I I'd love to know about this transition.

Boundaries, Projection, And The Three-Five Ride

Fēnix

Yeah. Um, I think that energetic hygiene is starting to become more of a popular thing, right? Where people are like, oh yeah, surround yourself with golden light and things like that, and that will help. And that that definitely is like a part of it for sure. Like in terms of what I was trained in, you know, I was trained in clairvoyant psychic tools for energy management. So it's like you're using your intuitive abilities to give yourself a healing at the end of the day so that you let go of that uh energy, right? Um, like spiritual psychic tools that you actually take with you when you die. They are spiritual tools that your consciousness retains, right? As you move on to the other side. And so I'm always like, what kind of value to put on that? I don't know whatever I'm telling people about these things.

Frank

The credits are transferable. I'd love to hear this kind of stuff.

Phoenix’s Free Mentorship And How To Connect

Fēnix

Yeah. But the real practice is like the way, and what I love and what I feel like is the ever-evolving practice is using your intuition to look into yourself to become aware of your subconscious, which is why I love teaching. You know, I teach all of the clairs, but like the clairvoyance, it allows you to literally see into your subconscious, right? Like with clarity. Um, clairvoyance means to see with clarity. And so, and we can all develop this. That's why I like love the premise of y'all's podcast, because you're like, how do we develop this? And like for me, I don't see that intuition is the special ability that people are born with. I see that it's like everyone is intuitive, everyone has intuitive abilities, and that's just a part of being a soul. And you can develop them just like you would learn how to play the piano. And if someone is born with a very highly developed Claire, they developed it in the past life. You know, it's not like it was just this gift that came out of nowhere. It comes from development. And so, what I teach my students is how to use those tools to learn how to get better at giving themselves healings, right? And protecting themselves, but then also looking in your subconscious and like, okay, so that person just like um threw a lot of anger at you and it got into your auric field and maybe even got into your body, the energy of it, gotten into a certain chakra. Where in you was there some kind of thing in you, maybe from childhood, that you were like a match for that, right? Where you allowed that into your space. And the more that you work those subconscious things, right, the less the other people's energy ultimately affects you. You know, it's not like we're all affected by each other. I don't prescribe to this idea of like, then you become this like autonomous being who is not a part of like you know, anyone else, but you are able to reclaim your space way quicker. Um, does that make sense?

Frank

Yeah. Yeah. I get and I or I should say I used to get more triggered. I was more naturally attuned to my own sensitivities, right?

Lauren

Yeah.

Frank

I was really bad at math, for example. People who are quick quick studies at math, it was like, oh, hold on a minute. I don't this isn't clicking with how I operate, really. And it still doesn't. Being called like slow or dumb to learn as certainly in my 20s when we would be like, Oh, you're you're so you're so fucking stupid, Frank. I'd do that that was my match. When someone said that to me, that would light me up and I'd be like, we are not cool right now. Not even close.

Lauren

Exactly. So you so that's you letting that emotion into your org field and into your body.

Frank

I mean, if we're talking match sticks, yeah, like my my personal sense of my that was uh that would immediately light up a chakra and I would go and go into like a defensive mode and just as in a matchstick, yeah.

Lauren

Okay.

Fēnix

Oh, I assume yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about.

Lauren

Okay, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Fēnix

Whereas, like if you were totally neutral and someone said that to you and you didn't in some way carry some pain around that, or in some subconscious way believe that, that energy wouldn't be able to get in so much, right? Right. It would just be like, Oh, that person thinks I'm stupid.

Lauren

Yeah, like you know, water off a duck's back, who cares? Yeah, I don't I don't carry that. So, like someone being like, Lauren, you're you're done. Well, yeah, no, it's the way it's actually I have a I do have a different form of that from like you take forever, like your stories take a long time from like my brothers making fun of me when I was a kid. Or, but it's a different way, it's it wasn't uh dumb. It would it would be like yeah, something like okay, like exactly what I'm doing right now. If you made fun of me for this story, then I would um kind of start like feeling it in my body. Right.

Closing Gratitude And Support Options

Frank

I mean, I do speed you along sometimes.

Lauren

Yeah, and then I and then sometimes I get triggered and I say, It's true. Don't give me space. Right. That's something I've been I I I've been healing over the last two years.

Frank

Yeah.

Lauren

Okay. Okay.

Frank

So But a lot of it was a self-judgment. It's always the like, well, what if they're right, you know? And that's where the we we compensate a lot. I always talk about compensating, like how people compensate with their um their triggers, and and we we compensate a lot. We we tell ourselves, no, I can't be true. I don't want that to be true. And it generates generates this friction in yourself of like, but what if it is? Now I'm mad, this is too much.

Fēnix

Right. I think that the whole idea around energetic hygiene is becoming more popular. And what I've found to be the most effective, which is what I teach, um, is the world of spirit is the world of imagery. It's the world of your quote unquote imagination. Um, like the world of your body, like your body communicates through sensations, and you as a spirit communicate through images. And so um when you use tools that are based in images, they're gonna be way more powerful than if you were just saying words or something like that, right? Like if you're conscious of the realm of reality that is uh kind of, you know, uh I don't want to say above because it's not like hierarchical, but like beyond the words, right? Which is the realm of like energy, pure energy and imagery, that's going to be a more effective form of protection because you're actually lining up with uh the spirit realm, right? Like we all communicate spiritually, whether we're aware of it or not. This is what allows me to communicate, right? I studied um interspecies intuitive communication, like talking to your animals and things like that. They're talking to you through images. And so it's like if you can become aware of the images that they're sending you, which is what I teach people how to do to tune into their intuitions, you can actually receive those and communicate through that language, the spirit to spirit kind of language. It's just going to be a different kind of more in my view, more effective, more kind of like powerful communication than if you're just um saying a word, right? Like if you're gonna do a mantra, visualize something with it, it's gonna add a certain degree of like cohesion and interdimensional power to the experience. That's just been my experience.

Frank

This is so cool because I have been reading about like deeper, the deeper concept of like actually manifesting where it's not just words you're saying and hoping you believe it at some point.

Lauren

Yes.

Frank

And I I've been learning about how the formula is a combination of things. You could think a thought, it's not gonna help you. You can verbalize it, you know, it's not gonna be the only way to do it. You have to imagine it, you have to feel it, you have to and and like this special formula is the formula that gets you into that space. And what you're saying makes a ton of sense. And I also want to ask you, actually, if because you're saying like a spirit speaks through images, um, and that's how animal commun communication works, because they speak through images. That's like also just mediumship, isn't it? That's how mediumship works.

Fēnix

Exactly, for sure.

Frank

So if you're a medium, you can talk to animals.

Fēnix

Yeah, maybe Yeah. I mean, a little bit maybe like it's the same skill set, right? But you're applying to like the way you communicate to a flower, the way that I read someone's soul essence when they come in for a reading with me. I'm, you know, the I'm speaking through images usually, right? In a reading with someone and they're showing me images. I'm just relaying back like what they're showing me.

Frank

Oh that's interesting. Okay. And then and then this in terms of like uh uh psychic, I don't know, fortifying, you know, so you're not so porous. The um it's really interesting too because I was reading an old book written by uh an author named Dion Fortune, or that's her chosen name. Uh it was from like the 30s or something, and it's called Psychic Self-Defense.

Lauren

Oh, I love that.

Frank

She was like an occultist, but like in a super cool way, and not like a weird Alistair Crowley way. And and uh she talks a lot about the um how you know we have uh like we have psychic psychic abilities and stuff like that, which are very like intuitive and people are born with them, but like if you're not trained, like it can be dangerous or you can hurt yourself by being too available. You have like your occultists who are all ritual, and like that's all they focus on is ritual and you know, magic with a K and all this stuff, and it's all like very performative and theatrical, and then you have psychology, which is all mental and doesn't actually address the other two, which are also just as important, right? Like getting to the bottom of this shit and trying to make it work faster and better for everyone. Yeah. Uh you saying that like spirit speaks in in imagery, and like that's a really good way to protect yourself. I mean, that's huge because you can perform rituals in your head that like are very visual and very powerful, and you don't need to sit, I don't need to put on a robe in real life and and do a salt circle and light my sword on fire and all this stuff. You could do that in your head and it actually Okay. Okay. Phoenix, I think I get it.

Fēnix

Yeah, yes, thank you. Thank you. Yeah, totally, exactly. That's ex and that's why I'm like, and that's so cool because yeah, I'm remembering you have that intention, right? To kind of find ways to make it applicable to the world that we live in now, which I didn't even think about that in terms of the way I teach my work, but it really is. I mean, um, you it's way easier to uh develop your consciousness to be able to use uh your intuition to work with the world of spirit like that. Cause you again, you don't need anything physical. You take that with you when you tie, right? Like it's like you don't need anything physical, really. Um, I mean, obviously, it's not about like fuck the physical, like it's cool, you know, play with it, do stuff, but you don't necessarily need it.

Frank

Yeah, it's a tool, not the tool.

Lauren

Yes. What do you tell your students who are like, I have a harder time with like visualization? My mind starts wandering or thinking about that. Someone's like, Yeah, imagine a golden light around you. I I don't know, my brain starts thinking about like frogs or something. I'm like, I'm really trying to see the golden light, but now they're turned into lizards. It's all curved. It's all currently frog. And now I'm seeing a stream, and you know, like I I I I don't know, I wonder, um help.

Fēnix

Yeah. What's your advice for that? Yeah, that's a great question because I get that a lot.

Lauren

And you know about the frogs specifically, right?

Fēnix

Specifically, people keep re referencing frogs for lizards.

Lauren

Like it's just lizards and frogs.

Fēnix

I don't know why I even keep seeing that. Yeah. Um, I mean, my personal experience, again, like I said, as a child, and I do personally see that most children come in with the ability to just perceive the world of spirit very just plainly. They they see, you know, the energy, they hear it, they can visualize like just because there's no sort of social programming yet that says to shut that down. Yeah. And so as a kid, I had that very naturally, but then I like most of us learned to shut it down out of like, you know, safety or fear. Or, you know, as a kid, my parents fought a lot. And looking at the energy of that was pretty terrifying. Like it was scary. So it's like there's all kinds of ways that and reasons why you kind of shut down your natural spiritual abilities. And so when I started doing this intensive psychic development, I wasn't seeing stuff for months. I mean, like probably for the first year of doing the work. You know, it was like I would have moments, but it was not cohesive. Um, and it wasn't something that I could kind of have a sense of command over. Um and so, yeah, one answer to that is definitely just practice. It is just practice and being gentle with yourself and realizing that there's a lot of stuff you need to let go of, a lot of that invalidation, any of that fear that's blocking your ability to just see with clarity, to have access to that natural, uh, you know, clairvoyant ability or intuitive ability. Um and um yeah, so a lot of it is just like committing to the practice, you know, for sure. Okay. Great.

Frank

I'm gonna I'm gonna yes and on this one.

Lauren

Go go off.

Frank

I think that's also where actual physical ritualism might actually come into play. If you're having a hard time thinking it, just do it. But make it easy.

Fēnix

The intention carries a long way. Yeah.

Lauren

Yeah. Yeah.

Fēnix

Yeah, that's true. And you you start to wake it up, right? It's like a process of waking up. And so it does happen if you commit to the practice, right? It's like, it's like I always tell people this it's like playing the piano. Like, would you expect yourself to be able to play Mozart like the first time you're trying the keys? Like, no, you learn scales, you practice those over and over and over again, and then you are able to perceive the world of spirit, the world of energy with more clarity, the more and more that you kind of clear everything out and and practice. But everyone can do it. Everyone can do it, and you can too.

Lauren

It's funny because I'm a visual, like I I say I'm a visual learner, and I see images like when I, you know, I've had like visitation dreams and it's very vivid. But yeah, sometimes the the visualization part full just ADD time. I think it's ADD. Yeah.

Frank

Why don't you talk yourself through the steps?

Lauren

I think that's I think that's part of it. Just saying saying stuff out loud, which is part of when when I'm like doing healing stuff, sometimes it's out loud by myself. Yeah. Totally. Talking to my little inner 12-year-old or something.

Fēnix

Well, and something else I want to say to that is like the wandering that you're noticing, that's actually there's a reason for that. There's like a like if you go, like if I'm in meditation and I'm grounding, I'm using my visual tools to give myself a healing, kind of clear out from the energy of the day, and I start wandering into some memory of like when I was a child, there's a reason why I'm wandering into that. For some reason, that's kicked up in my space. And it's sort of like uh the healing, it's a part of the healing, right? And so if like you go to ground, you see frogs, you know, you experience frogs, you know, it's like for some reason that is like a part of what's what's going on.

Lauren

Something about frogs needs to be healed.

Frank

Could it, could it God? Sorry, could it ever be, is there ever a case where it's actually like a form of procrastination? Like you're afraid of what you might uncover, so your brain throws frogs at you? Is that a thing?

Fēnix

Totally. Yeah, that could be a thing too, of what's happening for sure.

Frank

I just think about like I was in a while, bro.

Lauren

I was in a um in one of my Reiki classes when I was in like a guided meditation. Well, actually, almost every guided meditation would be like you're in a forest or whatever, and now you're walking to a river.

Frank

And like you told me about this, and I think it's so funny.

Lauren

What?

Frank

Well, just so it's like in in Lauren's head, the it's she's in this guided meditation, she's in the zone, right? And like the the the practitioner who's like leading her. It's almost like there's a fork in the in the the path that they're walking in in this like guided guided meditation. There's a fork in the road, and the the class and the practitioner go that way, and Lauren went Lauren turned right and they went left. And now Lauren's at the playground or something. It's very funny.

Lauren

I'm like forcing myself to like stay in the forest, stay in the forest, dude. Walk me through the forest, and I'm like, you know, my mind wanders.

Fēnix

Yeah, I mean, it's kind of like what we were saying there. There's a reason for that, right? And so it's like if you go with the reason and you get curious about it, there's probably something there. And it is like the practice to me, developing your intuitive abilities is the practice of like uh learning the art of receiving, receiving the images, receiving the information, and then learning the art of um being more active with it, which is like, okay, I'm going, I want to see this now, right? And and can I see this now? And you actually need to practice and hone both in order to be like kind of really empowered in your intuitive abilities. It's about being able to direct it when you want to and being able to receive um when you want to as well. Okay.

Frank

It's probably only a problem when you feel like you're supposed to stay on task and stay with the the group. You know what I mean?

Lauren

Oh no, I'm not doing what I'm supposed to. I've got somewhere better to go. Yeah.

Frank

Yeah, yeah. You're on a you're on a guided tour through museum and everyone went on to American history, you're back in Egypt still.

Lauren

Yeah, yeah. I she even said, like, if you you know, it it's just a guide. Like if if you end up thinking about something else, it's it's Fine.

Frank

Yeah, but you also get FOMO. You want to be with the group.

Lauren

Yeah. Like, I'm not on the grassy hill.

Frank

That is interesting.

Lauren

I'm not on the grassy hill. I'm like, you know, skipping around on the log or something.

Frank

Oh, with your backpack.

Lauren

Oh, sorry, I'm late. Sorry, guys. I got stuck at the water fountain. Oh man. Sorry. I'm taking us on.

Fēnix

Oh, I love that. It's like carving your own path, you know? Yeah. Yeah. There's nothing wrong with that. You're a three five, right? Yep. Yep. Let's go. Let's carve our own path.

Frank

I get jealous of the three fives because you guys are like the heroes. You're the you're the carve your own path kind of people. And it's it's pretty fun. And you know, I am I am I say I'm the man at the desk. I'm like, well, here's how you're supposed to do it. And I have my Excel sheet open. I'm like, uh well, you're not quite doing it the way you there's a faster way. There is a faster way, but you do you.

Lauren

I get impatient with like learning stuff, and and Frank's like, hold on. I need to watch like 60 YouTube videos on how to do this at two times speed. I will know how to do this in you know 24 hours. And I'm like, uh, I have to learn that. I don't want to. And then I'm like, let me just try it. Just give me the drills.

Fēnix

Let me just try it. Exactly. Frank, what's your type?

Frank

Uh I am also a manifest and generator.

Fēnix

Okay, cool. Love it. Yeah. Yeah.

Lauren

Do you find just on a quick human design tangent, do you find that people um project onto you?

Fēnix

Yeah. I mean, I I feel like that unconscious fifth line works in my favor in the sense of like as a healer, people are like, you can help me. And I'm just like, yes, I can, maybe. Let's hear what you need help with. You know, like and then I need to be honest about like if I can actually help you or not. Right. But yeah, yeah, the problem solving part.

Lauren

Mm-hmm.

Fēnix

Because it's unconscious for us, right? And so it's like I always so I always forget, you know, it's like people are like, Oh, there's this like seductive quality about you. And I'm like, really? Like I'm just like unconscious. I'm not like consciously thinking about it. I'm consciously thinking about my last failure and what I learned from it, you know, because it's like the third line. Same.

Lauren

Yeah. Oh, that's funny. Yeah. That's funny about it being yeah. But we we had some. Um, if you were listening to the e any of the human design um episodes, one of them was with Lauren. Um she was saying with the three five, she's like, people love to hate people love you or they want to like burn you at the stake. Yeah. Or like they think they know you because they're they've projected their like idea of who you are onto you, and then they're like, oh, actually, that was just a projection of myself. No, I don't like you anymore. Yeah, totally.

Fēnix

Yeah, that happens for sure. It's well, something that I've really had to kind of take to heart with the three five thing is like my life is a roller coaster, it's wild. I've done all kinds of wild shit, you know? Like, and I will continue to. Yeah. And like my people are the ones who want to be on the roller coaster with me, who are like, whoa, this is kind of crazy, but come find me.

Lauren

Instead of like, get me off this fucking thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thankfully, you're willing to. I mean, we since we've met, we've been in a band together. Yeah. Done like film projects. I had an Etsy shop. He's on the roller coaster. I've been on, I've been in improv on improv teams.

Frank

I think that I think we meet in the middle of the MG, the MG energy because I'm always doing weird shit too.

Lauren

Yeah.

Frank

So I she drags, she drags me into hers and I drag her into mine.

Lauren

Yeah.

Frank

Yeah. I love uh mine's just a little more researched first, that's all. She'll be like, I think I want to make mugs. I'm like, what the f okay.

Lauren

And then he goes on the path of this is how you do it.

Frank

Yeah. Give me give me 10 minutes and then I know kung fu. I wish I knew kung fu. I don't know a shit about kung fu.

Fēnix

Mug kung fu.

Frank

Oh god. Okay. Okay. Well, uh, where we gotta. I don't want, I don't want you to go. Phoenix, thank you so much for hanging out with us today. It legitimately was like so much fun, and I don't want you to go. Yeah, but I understand time is a thing.

Lauren

You do have a seductive quality about you.

Frank

You are you're a very seductive quality.

Lauren

Why, thank you.

Frank

Um, give uh everybody your plugs, tell us tell them where to find you and and what kind of what kind of things you're you're teaching right now.

Lauren

How can they work with you?

Fēnix

Yeah, yeah. You can go to my website, which is phoenixgrace.com. And Phoenix is spelled in the old English way. So it's f-e-n-i-xgrace.com. Um and on Instagram, it's it's similar, it's like at phoenix.grace. And right now I'm really excited about this um free group uh intuitive mentorship space that I've been holding um since the beginning of the new year. So I do it once a month. Um, it's like a free space to come and just like receive some mentorship around your intuition and you know, just have a validating space to talk about these kinds of things. And especially for people who are just beginning, right? It can feel really overwhelming, or like you can be like, who can I ask about this? You know, like thing that I'm experiencing. So it's just a free space to come in and uh chat about that. And so you can find information about that on my Instagram or you can DM me.

Lauren

But yeah, that's that's really cool. We do like free consulting sometimes for people who are like, I'm having this thing and I don't know who to turn to. And we're like, we have this huge directory of people, so we will send them to you for for that. Yeah, that's cool.

Fēnix

Thank you so much for having me. Y'all are so fun, and I love like how much we laugh. That was one thing that I always loved about listening to the podcast, like when I was listening to it, is like there's so much laughter, and I love that. And just thanks for having me.

Frank

Oh, that's nice.

Fēnix

Yeah, yeah, you know what?

Frank

This is serious business, but it doesn't have to be so serious all the time. You know what I mean?

Fēnix

I fucking agree.

Frank

Thank you for listening. Visit ClaireVoyaging.com for merchandise or to access free resources to help you on your spiritual journey. Subscribe to our Patreon for more content, or join for free to chat with us. Clare Voyaging is a fiscally sponsored project of Fractured Atlas, a 501 C3 charity. Make a tax deductible donation to support our mission to foster understanding, respect, and curiosity for diverse spiritual belief systems. Claire Voyaging is a production of Wayfeather Media.

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Frank A. Leon

Co-host
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Lauren Leon

Co-host

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