099: Navigating Psychic Abilities in Children // An Update with "Gwen"

An update on Gwen’s story and a conversation about choosing authenticity, letting go of old narratives, and living more fully in our truth. We reflect on what it’s meant to grow publicly, the ways honesty has reshaped our lives and community, and how our relationship to this work has changed over time. This episode starts to wrap up a long chapter of our journey and marks a shift toward a more grounded, intentional version of what we’re building moving forward.

Frank and Lauren now offer Spiritual Coaching and Empowerment Workshops. Visit www.clairvoyaging.com/services and use code VOYAGER at checkout for 15% off.

Transcript

Warm-Up, Patreon, And Framing

Lauren 1:02

Greetings, you magical mystery monsters! In today's episode, we talked to the one and only Gwen, and we've got a big update on her. I'm Lauren Leon.

Frank 1:14

And I'm Frank.

Lauren 1:15

And we are a married couple learning how to develop our own intuition. This is episode 99 of Clear Voyaging.

Frank 1:44

Yo!

Lauren 1:45

Hello, little pumpkins!

Frank 1:47

What's going on?

Lauren 1:49

Hi, hi, hi.

Frank 1:50

You doing good?

Lauren 1:51

Are you?

Frank 1:52

Are you?

Lauren 1:53

Tell us. What's the scoop, guys?

Frank 1:56

What are you scooping?

Lauren 1:58

Is it is it good? Is it okay? Is it Are you okay? Are you Are we okay? Are you okay?

Frank 2:05

I there's a lot. Deep breath. It's fine.

Lauren 2:09

Everything's fine.

Frank 2:10

Let's make it a nice one.

Lauren 2:11

Hey, Frank. Guess what?

Frank 2:13

What's up?

Lauren 2:13

Uh, just a quick little thing. We've got a new Patreon member. Thank you, Alex. Alex! Welcome, Alex. Welcome, Alex. Woo-hoo! Guys, we have a really great episode today. I'm pretty excited about it, Frank. You excited?

Why Authenticity Changed Our Family

Frank 2:32

It's something. But first, Lauren has a prepared statement. I have not read this, so. But I will be um exercising my ride of peanut gallery. Let's rock.

Lauren 2:52

Since the beginning of this podcast, we've come from a place of authenticity, vulnerability, and celebration of the idea of normalizing your spiritual journey. Right, Frank? Yeah. What started as slight discomfort around telling strangers or even family and friends about our podcast became a source of pride.

Frank 3:13

It's true.

Lauren 3:14

Yeah. It's just what we do now and who we are. Living authentically has made us realize the misalignment in where we lived, help us make big changes, and create a solid foundation for raising our kids in an honest and healthy way.

Frank 3:28

It's still so weird that a podcast did all of that. I mean, you know. Like I said, if you've been here for the whole thing, I didn't, I kept my cards close to my chest. I do not talk to people about my feelings. It never served me well.

Lauren 3:43

It is pretty wild. I don't, yeah. I don't know how often you can say that like just this day, this weekly practice of putting your feelings out into the world and and and talking to experts has fundamentally changed your life.

Frank 3:59

Yeah, it's crazy.

The Reveal: Gwen Is Jean

Lauren 4:00

It's literally also shaped our community. For example, we recently learned that by being honest and proudly stating to our neighbor friends, we have a podcast about intuitive development, and Frank and I are both Reiki masters. We discovered that they also enjoy energy work, and one of them is a Reiki master as well. On our little tiny street. On our street, and our kids are like best friends. What are the chances? But what you know, what we might have once considered a random coincidence feels more now like true alignment. So I think we now trust ourselves as we've begun to make the transition from observer to participant to practitioner. So now in this new space of true authenticity, while we tell others to normalize their spiritual journey, and as we accept and honor our own spiritual journeys, we've also been telling our own kids to do the same. And as we come up on our 100th episode, we've been in a period of reflection and refocus. What story are we telling? One story that we've been telling is the story of Gwen. I use air quotes here because, as we said from the very beginning, Gwen is not her real name. We've talked about Gwen as the catalyst for this entire podcast because she was. She was the reason for our newfound belief three years ago. For those new to the story, Gwen was five years old when she told a yard duty at school, excuse me, your mom died. And it turned out to be true. And it changed our lives forever because Gwen is not our niece. Gwen is Jean, our daughter.

Frank 5:37

I feel like you probably might have been able to guess not already.

Lauren 5:41

Maybe. I don't know. We tell you how old our daughter is all the time. And I was like, well, maybe someone's gonna put this together.

Frank 5:47

Yeah. Our buddy, our buddy Drew called us out a long time ago. He's like, okay, okay. Everyone knows. I'm like, I don't know if anybody knows, buddy. But tell them why. Tell them why, babe.

Lauren 5:58

Okay. At the time, Jean did not like to talk about what she was experiencing, and we desperately wanted to learn more for her sake, for our sake, to understand everything we could about the spirit world and to try and get on her level in any way possible. So instead of exploiting her and using her ability and experiences as a marketing tool, we chose to honor her anonymity for protection.

Frank 6:21

You mean lie to everybody? Yeah.

Lauren 6:23

A little bit.

Frank 6:26

Well, look, she was not comfortable with it.

Lauren 6:28

Exactly.

Frank 6:29

And it was like, I don't want to push her. This is something that happened to us. We need to address it, but we can't push her into a zone where she's not comfortable.

Lauren 6:36

Yeah.

Frank 6:36

You know, because we're ethical parents and stuff.

Lauren 6:39

And we were like, we don't necessarily feel comfortable outing her in case someone at her school hears this and like, you know, that we don't want her to be like, oh, that's the ghost girl or something. She talks the ghost. She's weird. Yeah. You know, if you've seen any, that's part of the spiritual journey and like having it be normalized because not everybody is comfortable with it. I think they're becoming more comfortable, just given how much we talk to people and how open they are to things, even in the last two and a half years.

Frank 7:10

I kind of wish I understood better how reality works because I can't tell if the more we talk about it, the more people we find who are comfortable with it, if everyone's always secretly comfortable with it, or if we're like doing some, I don't know. Are we are we are we manifesting something? I don't I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what's going on.

Lauren 7:26

Because also I'm it maybe it's just my algorithm, but I see more parents talking about their kids experiencing stuff, and I'm like, huh. I think it's just becoming a little bit more acceptable or a little bit people are opening up a little bit more.

Frank 7:44

Let me adjust your algorithm actually. It's there's a little knob behind the ear if you just twist them. All right. Your algorithm has been adjusted. That's being said, my algorithm, I was like, are you a robot?

Protecting A Child’s Privacy

Lauren 7:57

No, uh, my social media algorithm silly goose. So we chose to wait until Jean was more comfortable, if and when she was ready. Once she started telling some kids at school about her ability to talk to ghosts, as she puts it, we began to feel more comfortable talking about it as well. So as we move into this new version of Claire Voyaging, we discussed the reveal of Jean as Gwen, and we asked her if she'd be comfortable talking to us on the podcast. And she was very ready.

Frank 8:34

She is a theater kid. Yeah. You know, like she loves musicals and is always singing. I can't get her to stop singing. Sometimes I wish she would stop singing.

Lauren 8:44

We love how much she sings.

Frank 8:45

And not at 6 30.

Lauren 8:47

It's very uh top of her lungs sometimes. But you know what? As I have come to uh heal my own trauma, I go, girl, be you. I'm not gonna dim your light. I'm not gonna quiet you.

Frank 9:00

And I say, girl, maybe just bring it down. Maybe just bring it down to 10. Can we bring it down to 10?

Lauren 9:08

So we interviewed Gene. You wanna hear it?

Frank 9:12

Wanna hear it?

Lauren 9:12

You wanna hear how it went?

Frank 9:14

Well, good, because here it comes.

Lauren 9:16

Here it comes. Well, welcome, Jean.

Jean 9:23

Thank you. Uh, it's great to be back.

Lauren 9:27

We just realized, also, it's great to have you back here. Um, we just realized that the last time we talked to you was almost exactly two years ago because it was you had a Valentine's Day uh party in your class, and you just came back from school with all your Valentines.

Frank 9:45

And during the entire last interview, you brought home like Valentine's heart glasses and I wore them for the whole interview.

Lauren 9:53

Yeah.

Jean 9:54

That is right. That is correct. Yeah.

Lauren 9:57

We weren't doing video then, so uh we're not we're not showing you because I did kind of mention why I'm not putting you on film.

Frank 10:05

Why? On film. I'm not I'm not putting you on video. How come? Just say what I say what I said.

Jean 10:11

Because there's a bunch of creeps watching.

Frank 10:14

There you go. Well, to be clear, I wasn't talking about our audience. Hold on, I feel like I need to back this up a little bit, guys. It wasn't all right, fine. You're a bunch of creeps. You're all the creeps.

Lauren 10:27

The potential. The potential random creeps. We know our audience is good, bunch of bunch of good non-creeps. Uh it's the it's the potential of others finding it somehow. We don't need that. Thumbs up.

Frank 10:45

Gene.

Jean 10:46

Yes.

Inviting Jean Back On Mic

Frank 10:47

Why did we bring you back and why are we calling you Gene now?

Jean 10:50

Because you're telling the truth to your listeners.

Frank 10:55

Do you know why I didn't tell the truth in the first place?

Jean 10:58

There is a bunch of great things.

Frank 11:01

No, well, I mean. Damn, she double-tapped the joke. It's pretty good.

Lauren 11:07

No, it's the same reason why we would say you don't don't don't tell people about your abilities unless you're really comfortable with doing it. What's the reason for that?

Jean 11:18

But people like might think I'm lying or like not telling the truth, which is the same as lying as I'm realizing now. Uh-huh. Yeah. Anything else? They might um the person that I told them might tell other people, and then that person might tell another person. So it becomes this whole group conversation.

Lauren 11:46

Yeah.

Jean 11:46

How would that make you feel? Everybody would be like, oh Gene, that's amazing! You can talk to ghosts. Oh my god. I'm telling my friend this now. So yeah. And that would make me like scared if that would become a big, like, big conversation.

Frank 12:08

Like a big deal.

Jean 12:10

Yeah, like a big deal. Yeah.

Frank 12:11

And specifically, we didn't want it to become like such an important part of your identity where it started making doing like regular like kid activities uh weird or difficult. Or like, hey, let's go play soccer. Let's go play soccer with ghost girl. Or like, you know, dumb stuff like that.

Jean 12:31

Yeah. Yeah.

Frank 12:32

Right? Wait. Do you play soccer with ghosts?

Jean 12:35

No.

Frank 12:36

Okay.

Why Tell The Truth Now

Jean 12:36

Well, I did play soccer, but not with ghosts. So yeah.

Frank 12:41

The kids were still alive.

Jean 12:43

The kids were still alive.

Frank 12:45

Alright. Normal soccer. Write that down. Normal soccer.

Lauren 12:49

How does it feel to talk as yourself instead of using the nickname or the the the fake name of Gwen?

Jean 12:57

It feels good.

Lauren 12:58

I feel like I'm not lying.

Jean 13:00

Okay. The last time I felt like, um, I'm feeling guilty. Did you feel guilty?

Lauren 13:07

Yeah.

Frank 13:07

Wow.

Lauren 13:08

We've got an incredibly honest child who does not like dishonesty in any way. Which, you know, we are too.

Frank 13:18

Hopefully one of us rubs off on her brother at some point.

Jean 13:22

The sneaky one. Yeah. The little grin when he does sneaky. No, he's the sneakiest little little turd. He's a sneaky goblin. He's a sneaky goblin. With the the disgusting face. I mean, like his lips, not his actual face.

Frank 13:39

Why? Because he has food on his face all the time? Yes. Yeah, well, kids have food on their faces all the time. You have food on your face all the time. Yeah, everything you eat one piece of chocolate and you look like there you end up with more chocolate around your lips than you was given to you in the first place. You make chocolate. I don't know how it happens.

Jean 13:56

How dare you?

Frank 13:59

Wait, one more question before we get into the real questions.

Jean 14:02

Yeah.

Frank 14:04

Why did we go with the name Gwen? Yeah.

Jean 14:08

Oh, because I am obsessed with Ghost Spider.

Frank 14:12

From the Spider-Man universe. Yes, I do.

Jean 14:14

AKA, what's her other name? Oh, right. Gwen Stacy. Gwen. Gwen Stacy.

Frank 14:19

So cool.

Jean 14:20

Sometimes referred to as Spider Gwen. And her dad is um a police officer.

Frank 14:28

Yeah. So yeah.

Jean 14:30

In some universes. Yeah.

Frank 14:31

Actually, I think that's a a universal thing.

Lauren 14:34

Okay. Well, in Spidey and his amazing friends, her mom is a police officer.

Frank 14:40

Are you Surios? I'm Surial. I like that.

Lauren 14:43

Detective. Oh, a dad. I stand corrected. Wow. Just a citizen.

Frank 14:52

That's cool.

Jean 14:52

Yeah, there's a citizen that wears glasses and is bald. And that has things like on the his uh head but not on his top. I think if I remember correctly.

Frank 15:07

What kind of things?

Lauren 15:07

What you mean like male pattern baldness? Like he has hair here?

Frank 15:12

We call them power alleys and they help us make sales.

Lauren 15:16

You mean he has just hair here, but not on the top?

Jean 15:19

He's like here, here? Oh wait, never mind. He does have hair in the top.

Frank 15:23

This is great, and all. Yeah. Let's dig in.

Jean 15:26

Yeah, time to get into the real stuff, the juicy stuff. The juicy stuff. The burger.

Lauren 15:35

Um, Miss Jean. Y'all's What do you think adults misunderstand most about kids who have uh intuitive abilities?

Jean 15:48

They think they're just like they're just imaginary friends. Go back to your room and uh don't talk to me for the rest of your day.

Frank 15:56

Well, I mean pretty bad.

Lauren 15:58

Do you think there are you think there's some parents who are like that? Yes. Yeah? Yeah.

Frank 16:05

Were we ever like that? Wait, were we ever like that? Before before we like knew what was going on. Did we ever do anything like that to you?

Lauren 16:13

No.

Frank 16:14

I think maybe we might have.

Lauren 16:16

I don't think I'd ever said an imaginary friend go back to your room.

Frank 16:19

No, not those words, but you know. There were moments when there were weird times that when you were acting kind of funny or something was going on and be like, dude, stop. You're being dramatic. Go back to bed. Everyone does it, guys. It's okay. We've made mistakes. You don't you probably don't remember. It would have been like from before you were in kindergarten.

Lauren 16:37

Before TK.

Frank 16:38

Before TK.

Lauren 16:40

Before TK? Yeah. I literally night, like three and four years old.

Early Encounters And Boundaries

Jean 16:45

Well, in kindergarten, I had to deal with Emma. Okay, so who was Emma? A ghost. Where'd you see her? In the garage on the ceiling, looking down at me with no pupils.

Lauren 17:00

Okay. Did Emma like kind of follow you around for a little while or like what happened with her? Yeah. She would. Yeah. Uh-huh.

Frank 17:09

And what did what did Dr. Claire say to do about that again? Uh I kind of forget, but Well, what do we always say when you see something or talk to someone that you don't want to?

Jean 17:21

Uh I'm not available, please go get someone else. So why do you say that she was Well, hold on.

Frank 17:29

We don't tell him to go get someone else.

Jean 17:31

Yeah.

Frank 17:32

I'm not available, please go eat someone else.

Lauren 17:36

Oh, please go visit someone else. Yeah. Okay. Since we talked to you last, have there been other events that have happened?

Jean 17:46

Yes.

Lauren 17:47

What else? Can you tell us a little bit?

Jean 17:49

Um, like, well, this is kind of hard to explain, but uh so my brother came upstairs saying like well he has the same abilities at m as me. So he came upstairs like so first he was in the bedroom and then he just came upstairs like There's a zombie ghost in a room. And then I said, Okay, let me go down there and see what's going on. And then I went downstairs and he was just there like s he was like there just sitting there, like sitting there and the spirit? Yeah, the spirit. And um like he actually did kind of look like a zombie, like half is his like skin was kind of peeling off and the brain was sticking out and he didn't have pupils.

Frank 18:52

So So what did you ask him anything?

Jean 18:55

Um I asked him like what he wanted and um he said he wanted to go to heaven.

Frank 19:01

Were you able to help him at all?

Jean 19:03

Yes.

Frank 19:04

What do you do to help them again?

Jean 19:06

I like tell them to follow the light, and that light is the way to heaven.

Frank 19:13

Just w just like that, huh?

Jean 19:15

Yeah, but actually believe me.

Frank 19:20

Oh what?

Jean 19:21

Believe me.

Frank 19:22

Believe you? Yeah.

Jean 19:23

Okay, yeah, I believe you.

Frank 19:25

The I mean it's just interesting because I don't understand how that works. Do you understand how it works or you just know it works?

Jean 19:32

I just know it works. Like one minute I'm like, follow the light, and I'm closing my eyes. And then the next minute my eyes open. Poof. Wow. Gone. Magic trick. Blah da sabada.

Frank 19:48

That's the worst magic word I've ever. Hold on, take two. New magic word.

Jean 19:53

Oh, okay. Take two.

Lauren 20:04

Okay, great. That's fantastic. Well, so did that make you feel scared? No. No. I dealt with it by myself.

Frank 20:12

Wow. Alright. But you still get scared sometimes.

Jean 20:17

Yeah, sometimes. Like because I don't know who this is.

Frank 20:22

Is that the problem?

Jean 20:23

Yeah. Like Stranger Danger. Is it that you don't know who ghost danger?

Frank 20:30

Yeah. Spooky dookies. I have no idea.

Jean 20:33

Spooky dookies spoop a lot.

Helping Spirits And Feeling Safe

Frank 20:36

Is the is it that you don't know who it is, or is it sometimes you anticipate that someone might be there because sometimes you're scared before you even see anything? Is it just your is that how you still get scared sometimes?

Jean 20:46

Yeah, I guess.

Frank 20:48

No, tell me. Let's talk about it.

Jean 20:50

Like, um, the fact that I don't know this person at first, I'm like, okay, um, let's think about this. And then well, I don't actually say that, but I just after I know about it, I go downstairs and then see what he needs or she.

Frank 21:13

Yeah, but sometimes there's nothing even there. You just you just get kind of spooked out.

Lauren 21:17

Yeah, but is it the idea of maybe facing that kind of thing? Yes. Okay.

Jean 21:24

It scares me, like it kind of scares me.

Frank 21:27

Yeah, listen, when I was a kid, if I had to go like upstairs or downstairs by myself, I mean, I would get scared all the time. It's just that nothing was ever there. But you sometimes you actu sometimes something's actually there for you.

Jean 21:40

Yeah, I don't actually like get scared when I'm like downstairs, even when I'm by myself. I don't actually get scared because well, sometimes I could be friends with ghosts.

Frank 21:52

Sure.

Jean 21:53

Okay.

Frank 21:53

Oh, and just for to be clear, uh the layout of our house, our bedrooms are actually downstairs. You walk into the first floor because of we're on a hill.

Lauren 22:00

Yeah.

Frank 22:00

So it's kind of confusing.

Lauren 22:02

Yeah.

Frank 22:02

Uh but yeah, so when we say downstairs, we mean in our rooms. Yeah.

Lauren 22:07

Wait, so you but you had another event at school uh recently. What was that?

Jean 22:13

So I was just like doing a math test on my computer, and all the other kids in my class were doing it too. And then suddenly I just get shocked, like well not actually shocked, but I just got shocked because I heard like um like two pa and then I was like uh yeah like inside your head or outside of your ear? Like I was even wearing headphones and I like heard it. Okay.

Frank 22:52

You get to wear headphones when you're taking math tests? Like how's that news to me? What do you listen to? Gaga?

Schoolyard Spirit And Recess Appointment

Jean 22:59

Nothing. Um, nothing. She just like has us put on our headphones for some reason. Like maybe it's to concentrate. Okay.

Lauren 23:09

So you heard someone else's voice.

Jean 23:11

Yeah.

Lauren 23:13

It was a girl. And it like startled you.

Frank 23:15

You heard two-pa?

Jean 23:16

Yeah.

Frank 23:17

Did that mean anything to you?

Jean 23:20

No, I like two pa? What does that mean? So I'm guessing it means like to papa, to dad, or something. Yeah. Yeah, I know. Um, so I couldn't see her, but I just heard her. And then I asked my teacher if I could go to the bathroom to like talk to her. I have n I still don't know what her name is. You don't know what is. I kind of I think she told me, but I just don't remember. That's okay. Why not? I don't remember. So What did she say? Did she want something? She said she also wanted to go to heaven. And then I said, can we do this out first recess? She said yes. And then I um dealed with it, so I just did the same thing as what I did with um the other spirit.

Frank 24:29

So you like took an appointment?

Jean 24:31

Yes.

Frank 24:31

At recess. Yes. You went back inside, you finished your math test, you came out, you grabbed yourself a quick pizza bagel, you hit the schoolyard, and you just sent a ghost to heaven, no big deal.

Lauren 24:40

Yeah. Wow. Wait, how did you know that she was back? Like when you went to first recess?

Jean 24:48

Because she said she was gonna go there. I mean she didn't really say it, but You just knew like she was Yeah, yeah, she I just knew. And then I was like, just I thought people were gonna think I was crazy when I went to the yellow bench and you sat down on a bench? Yeah. To deal with the ghost that I still cannot remember her name.

Frank 25:11

It's okay, don't worry about her name.

Jean 25:12

Yeah.

Frank 25:13

So you were a little concerned that what people would think when they saw you doing this.

Jean 25:16

Yes.

Frank 25:17

Did you actually do anything with your hands or you just do it in your mind? You did Doctor Strange.

Jean 25:23

Yeah.

Frank 25:24

No, you didn't. Are you serious?

Jean 25:26

I didn't really do anything with my hands, but I just did this. You just put your hands out. Yeah. And then when I opened my eyes.

Lauren 25:47

Or out loud? Out loud.

Jean 25:49

Like, yeah, I was out loud.

Frank 25:52

Did anybody see or hear you?

Jean 25:54

Nope.

Frank 25:55

What if it did? What would you how would you feel?

Jean 25:59

I would say, hey, um, did you see me do that? Um I was just joking. I was just talking to myself and I was making up jokes. Wanna hear one? Knock knock.

Frank 26:10

No, we're good, we're good, we're good.

Courage Routines For Kids

Lauren 26:14

Okay, if you were if there was like another kid listening to this podcast, or you know, some people might have a kid who's experiencing some some stuff like you. I think they get that. Maybe they're a little bit younger, maybe they're older even, but how do you help yourself be brave or courageous when you're feeling scared?

Jean 26:36

Sometimes then there's a ghost or spirit, I should say. Um I'm like, I've got this, and I put my heart on my hand um, I put my hand on my heart, and I put my other hand on my stomach, and I just take like a couple deep breaths, like that actually sounded really well. It's okay. Um and uh that helps that kind of helps me. So for the other kids listening to this, I hope you get your courage.

Frank 27:10

Nice.

Jean 27:12

And I also believe that I have courage sometimes when they scouts.

Lauren 27:16

That's good. That's really important. So if there if there's another kid who's feeling like confused or alone, you want them to hear, you've got this.

Jean 27:26

Yeah. I I want them to say, I have courage. I believe myself. I got this, I've got this. And then they can do a little dance.

Lauren 27:38

What helps you like at night? What helps you at nighttime? Because a lot of times that's when kids have a lot of fear. Oh.

Jean 27:50

I don't really worry about that anymore, but why do you think that is?

Frank 27:55

You used to, which I used to all the time.

Jean 27:57

I'm older. You think just being older? Yeah, like I've had a couple more ghosts in hand and now I know what to do.

Frank 28:06

Oh.

Jean 28:07

Okay.

Nighttime Protections And Uncle Ian

Frank 28:08

We still have a uh every night we do a little thing to kind of uh protect your room a little bit.

Jean 28:14

Can I tell them? Sure. Like you can say, Ike Michael, please protect us with your um light or like blue light, and um tell like if a family members of a family member of yours has passed away and you like like that family member, you could ask them if they're like if there's unwelcomed ghost, you they could just like be um the kind of like bouncer that's at parties. And they're like, you're not on the list. Get out of here.

Frank 28:58

Who do we ask? Who do we ask to be our bouncer?

Jean 29:00

Uncle Ian.

Frank 29:01

Uncle Ian.

Jean 29:02

I never got to meet him.

Lauren 29:04

Is there anything that mom and dad have done that have that has helped you?

Frank 29:10

Um That sounds real close to no. You better watch your next words.

Jean 29:16

Yeah, it is no. Straight no.

Frank 29:19

That is a straight lie.

Jean 29:20

There's nothing that mom and dad have done to help you. Oh, wait, yes, they have. Yeah, um, you guys have told me, like, if you're not friends or family, please go away. I cannot help you.

Frank 29:36

Yeah. Okay. But sometimes when they're not, you you you've taken it upon yourself to like kind of make them have an appointment for a later date, huh?

Jean 29:46

Yeah, like example. There's this two twins, and then they wanted like well, they didn't really want help. I don't really remember, but they kind of wanted help, and they were just in my dreams, and I didn't really want them in my dreams, so I just like dad, aka Frank, helped me.

Frank 30:13

What did I do?

Jean 30:15

Helped me, like, with setting an appointment for the next day. And that was all right.

Frank 30:21

Which we then forgot about. So we set an appointment for the next day.

Jean 30:26

And then um I took them care of, so let the record show she did one of these.

Lauren 30:38

Um, is there anything that mom and dad have done that's not helpful? Absolutely nothing.

Frank 30:45

Be honest now.

Lauren 30:46

Brownie points? Nope. Well, are there times where you just don't want to talk about spirits? Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Frank 30:54

I mean, the mom and dad kind of talk about it all the time. Our thing.

Jean 30:58

It's kind of annoying. We yeah.

Frank 31:02

Fair. Fair. I feel like you're not the only person who thinks that.

Belief, Doubt, And Not Bragging

Jean 31:06

Who's the other person that thinks that doesn't think we'll talk about it offline? Okay.

Lauren 31:12

Good to know. Well, it became something where we we wanted to ask you, we wanted information, and you were scared to talk about it for a while. So we had to figure out different ways to make you more comfortable with talking about it. Otherwise, it was just kind of like this silent secret thing that you weren't really sharing with us.

Jean 31:35

Yeah, I was like, I didn't know I really know what was going on. So I didn't know what to do, and I didn't know if I could like actually talk to anybody about it. I thought I was just losing my mind.

Frank 31:51

It is funny that your first instinct was to be quiet about it. You're a very vocal person. I don't know if anyone has noticed that. Have you noticed that anybody? Everybody, have you noticed that? You're a very vocal person, and it's weird that this is the thing you stayed quiet about.

Jean 32:05

I was four.

Frank 32:06

I know, but still you were five. You haven't stopped talking since you came out of mom. So like but and then and then about this, suddenly you got really quiet.

Lauren 32:15

And anytime we'd ask you, you'd be like, Can we please stop talking about this? And you'd get really uncomfortable. Was it because it made you scared or what?

Jean 32:24

Uh, I don't actually know what was going on. I think I just like didn't want to talk about it. I have no idea why, but what did it make you feel in your body? Like the past jitters, kind of like that.

Lauren 32:40

Oh it gave you like jitters, like it made you made you jittery. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense.

Frank 32:47

Yeah. How do you I mean, and but what about now? Have you grown a little bit?

Jean 32:52

I'm much better.

Frank 32:53

Yeah.

Jean 32:54

Yeah?

Frank 32:54

I've told some of my friends And now they all hate you because they think you're weird.

Jean 32:59

Right?

Frank 33:00

Is that accurate?

Jean 33:01

No, they just um some of them don't believe me and others do, and they told other friends. How does it feel when people don't believe you?

Frank 33:11

Does it bother you?

Jean 33:12

Yeah. Like, I'm like, no, believe me, please.

Frank 33:16

Really? You Yeah. You beg them to believe you? I don't know if that's gonna work.

Lauren 33:21

Yeah.

Frank 33:22

What how does it feel?

Lauren 33:23

Do you feel weird? What emotion?

Jean 33:25

Like not trustworthy.

Frank 33:29

Like they you like you feel like you're not trustworthy.

Lauren 33:32

Yeah. Does it make you question your own truth or your own story? No. That's good.

Frank 33:40

How does it feel when someone actually believes you?

Jean 33:43

Good and a little worried. I come home like telling, hey mom or dad, um, I told blah blah blah that I can talk to ghosts.

Lauren 33:55

Then you get worried about it?

Jean 33:56

Yeah, I get worried about it.

Frank 33:57

Uh yeah, we we only we don't get mad at you. Only if you only if you tell the big mouth nerds out there who like are unlikely to believe you. But that's okay. You know what? Your choice. Yeah. Your community, your choice.

Lauren 34:07

That's what we've been saying to you, right? Yep.

Frank 34:10

I have a question for you. Yes. Is it important that we don't make ourselves feel special for our abilities?

Hobbies, Theater Kid Energy

Jean 34:18

Yes, absolutely. Definitely.

Frank 34:21

Yeah.

Jean 34:22

More words that say absolutely. Why is that? Like, because people might think, like, you're bragging. Like, example, if I said, like, hey, guess what? I can talk to ghosts, and you can't. Ha ha ha.

Frank 34:40

Yeah.

Jean 34:41

That was um a lot.

Frank 34:43

That was a lot, but but accurate. Yeah.

Lauren 34:48

To do that. It doesn't feel right. Yeah.

Frank 34:52

Well, you know, look at look how look at how far you've come. You went from not wanting to talk about it at all to now you're kind of opening up to some of your friends, and which is why we even feel okay talking about it on the podcast now, right? Yeah. Is if you if you're telling your own friends and there's no need to really keep a secret anymore, because you've you've owned it, but also you you know that not to make it your entire personality.

Lauren 35:15

You also do other like kid stuff, like playing sports and going to recess and uh speaking of what what non psychic activities do you like to do?

Jean 35:29

Like gymnastics. Um, I'm in it right now. You are in it right now.

Frank 35:35

You are in it.

Jean 35:36

Yeah.

Frank 35:36

Very fun.

Jean 35:37

Um in it. So yeah. Um it's great.

Lauren 35:42

Um what else do you like?

Jean 35:45

I like like playing with my friends and like having family movie nights. Mm-hmm.

Frank 35:54

Yeah. What about kind of any performances?

Jean 35:57

Oh, yeah. In June, I'm going to do two musical theaters.

Lauren 36:02

And I don't know. I mean, you've displayed your singing abilities several times already on this podcast. Do you like to sing?

Jean 36:08

Yeah, I um in chorus last year, I had one of like I was Mary Poppins, and I had a whole song. Yes, you did. Like it was really fun.

Frank 36:22

You had a solo.

Jean 36:23

Yeah, I had a solo. It was fun. And when I was in kindergarten, I actually did the musical Mary Poppins, and I was a sweep.

Lauren 36:33

Chimney sweep. Chimney sweep, yeah.

Frank 36:35

So cool.

Lauren 36:36

You had the cool little hat and the big big pants and the the broom. It's so cute.

Frank 36:42

The red, the red scarf. What was it? It's like a babushka. It's like a babushka.

Lauren 36:47

Big like ascot.

Frank 36:49

Yeah, it's an ascot kind of thing. Uh, what's your what's your favorite musical right now?

Jean 36:53

Um, like Little Shop of Horrors. Oh. Yeah.

Frank 36:57

Wait, hold on. It's fair. You just saw that. You you're gonna you're gonna say little shop of horrors over wicked?

Jean 37:03

Oh, wait. Um, sorry. Wow. Cross.

Frank 37:06

Wow, redaction.

Jean 37:09

Um, wicked.

Frank 37:11

Okay.

Jean 37:12

So good.

Frank 37:12

But little shop of horrors is still fun.

Jean 37:14

Yeah, it's my second favorite. That's a new discovery.

Frank 37:18

Yeah.

Lauren 37:18

That was fun. That was fun to watch.

Jean 37:20

It was actually a little scary. It's a little scary. Sudden. A little dark. Yeah, really dark. Like really, really dark. What was your favorite song? I've given you sun and water and dirt. Oh yeah. I mean and soil.

Lauren 37:36

Please grow for me.

Jean 37:39

Yeah.

Lauren 37:40

Yeah. That song's fun. We're almost done here, but we do have a few more questions.

Jean 37:45

Okay.

Lauren 37:46

Um, what's something that people might assume about you that isn't true?

Jean 37:52

Like, what do you mean? Can you explain that more for me? Oh, sure. Yeah. Okay. If people know.

Frank 37:59

Why do you have to do this?

Lauren 38:04

Can you explain that further, please?

Frank 38:06

This one's turning the SAS to 11. The gunch is off screen.

Lauren 38:10

Please keep that. Maybe we'll have a bonus like blooper reel behind the scenes. Yeah, please, please do that. Please do that. God, you know what?

Frank 38:21

How are we doomed really though? Because uh, between us saying, like, oh, you know, hey, be an ethical psychic, like, do it on you, but also being a stage performer.

Lauren 38:30

Oh, yeah.

Frank 38:31

This is a tough, this is a we're threading the needle here.

Lauren 38:34

Oh yeah. We got another Teresa Caputo over here.

Frank 38:37

Oh man. Just wait till your hair grows as three sizes too big, and then you'll understand.

Lauren 38:43

There's a psychic gene who like is very, she's she's a lot. She's a lot. She's a lot. She goes up to people and is like, I I'm talking to you, grandmother, like stuff like that. She's got a big personality. Anyway.

Frank 38:59

It's very theatrical. Yeah.

Lauren 39:01

So yeah. Okay. But okay, so if people do you know what assume means? Making an assumption? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like making an opinion. Yeah. Yeah. So what's something that people might think they know about you, but that's not true because they think they know something about you because you're psychic, but it's not true.

Jean 39:24

Like does it have to be can it be about school?

Frank 39:29

Like well, we're asking.

Lauren 39:32

When people learn that you're psychic, what's something that they might assume about you? That's not true. That's not true.

Frank 39:40

They think you're lying.

Jean 39:41

Yeah, they think I'm lying.

Lauren 39:42

What what else? Like do they assume like you can talk to spirits just whenever you feel like it? Not really. Do they think, oh, you're psychic? Like, tell me what number I'm thinking. Sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. Anything else that they Has someone really said that to you? Kind of, yeah.

Frank 40:05

Really?

Lauren 40:06

Yeah.

Where Her Abilities Might Go

Frank 40:06

That sucks. Did you punch him?

Lauren 40:10

No. Why would I do that? What number am I holding behind my back?

Jean 40:17

You could actually do that. It's fine. I was joking. No, do it. Okay, what was it? Four.

Frank 40:23

No.

Jean 40:24

She's not psychic. Sorry.

Frank 40:26

This whole show is a scam.

Jean 40:28

What was it? Two. Two. I I got that.

Frank 40:32

I You can't get it halfway.

Jean 40:34

I know, I know. First I got a two. No, I got that. First I got a two. Then I got a four.

Frank 40:40

I can't see that. Where do you see your abilities going? Do you think you're gonna kinda use them here and there, or do you think that maybe eventually you'll kind of maybe taper off and stop a little bit? Like, do you want to continue to use your psychic abilities, or do you think you're yeah?

Jean 40:57

Yeah.

Frank 40:58

What are you hoping to get out of it?

Jean 41:00

Like, well, fame and fortune. I'm joking. I I I don't want that. I'm not, I'm not. No. Mm-mm. That's not for me. That's funny. Nope. Mm-mm.

Frank 41:13

So what do you want?

Jean 41:14

I kind of want like people to like start like rubbing off on me in a good way though. Like if they're like not talking how I started about doing it.

Frank 41:28

You mean you want to start rubbing off on people.

Jean 41:30

No, they want to rub off of me.

Frank 41:33

I don't think you understand that saying.

Jean 41:34

Yeah, you're not getting that saying. If you say I You want to be a good influence on other people. Yes, I want to be a good influence on like kids. Oh. Like, yeah, like if I I uh first started off not talking about it. So I want kids if they're like that with like me, um, I want them to start talking about that with their parents. That's really that's really nice. And not being shadow being not being like Batman. I hide my secrets.

Frank 42:10

Wait, do another Batman.

Jean 42:12

I hide my secrets.

Frank 42:15

That sounded good.

Lauren 42:17

Thank you.

Frank 42:18

That's called some mic work. That was good.

Which Clairs Feel Strongest

Lauren 42:20

Yeah, that was great. Wait, so Gene, uh, what do you think is your strongest? Remember, we've talked about clairs before. What do you think is your strongest Claire? So that would be um you sense a spirit through your sight, which means you see it either outside of your body or in your mind, or is it hearing? Or is it sensing? Is it knowing? Can I have two? Yeah. Okay.

Frank 42:48

You can have all of them.

Lauren 42:49

Yeah. Some people have all of them, but what do you but some people have a stronger one than others?

Jean 42:54

Uh sometimes I'm better at sensing, and sometimes I'm better at just like hearing. Huh. Or seeing pictures in my head.

Lauren 43:02

Seeing pictures in your head. So that's clairvoyant. Well, Jean, yeah. It has been great talking to you and getting this update.

Jean 43:12

Yeah. It has been great talking to you, even though you're my parents that I talk to every day.

Lauren 43:21

Thank you so much for spending time with us. And telling thank you so much for telling your story and for um your honesty and your humor.

Frank 43:33

And anything else you want to tell everybody before you go?

Lauren 43:36

That's the end of Bush. Wait, give one piece of advice just like for for the kids out there.

Jean 43:46

If you're listening to this, kids, just always be honest with your parents, and if they don't believe you, okay. Just like maybe you could talk to other family members. So yeah.

Frank 44:00

Yeah, there's always someone.

Jean 44:01

Yeah, there's always someone. You know what it says on the side.

Frank 44:03

You know what it says on the front of our website right now, Jane?

Jean 44:05

What?

Debrief: Parenting, Skepticism, Discernment

Frank 44:06

It says, you are not alone. And I feel like I feel like that's a really good, it's kind of what you said. It's a really good message for the the kids out there who are needing some support, huh?

Jean 44:16

You are not alone.

Frank 44:17

You are not alone.

Jean 44:18

You are not alone. You are but you are home alone. Ah shaving cream badness. Or whatever it is.

Frank 44:29

After shave.

Jean 44:30

After shave. Oh my god. It was a great pleasure being on the podcast for a second time. Maybe I'm gonna be on the podcast for a third time. Also, I'm her daughter. And they lied to you.

Frank 44:45

Oh my god. Can we not end on that, of all things?

Jean 44:50

You're keeping that.

Frank 44:52

Fine.

Lauren 44:53

Okay.

Frank 44:53

Alright. Thanks, Gene. Bye, Gene. Bye. See ya in two seconds. See ya. And that is Gene, ladies and gentlemen. The blood of my blood.

Lauren 45:11

Bone of my bone. She she's a real one.

Frank 45:16

You know, she did complain about us being talking about ghosts too much. But here's what here's what happened, right? It's her fault. I hope she knows that. I will blame her. Don't worry. This shot us off in our own direction as a as a as a couple, as a as a twin flame in one lovely package. Of course you are.

Lauren 45:38

Oh. We've never used that term before.

Frank 45:41

Because it's kind of lame.

Lauren 45:42

It's weird. Is it weird? Is that judgmental? Sorry.

Frank 45:46

Sorry to all you twin flames out there.

Lauren 45:47

Sorry. And I love you, twin flames.

Frank 45:49

I don't even know what a twin flame is.

Lauren 45:51

I don't know what it means. Um anywho.

Frank 45:54

Shut us off in our own direction. And uh, you know, most people are, you know, like we've talked on the show before. Hey, how about them dodgers and stuff like that after work? Or like, oh man, the real housewives of Pensacola. There's it's so why is that the first place that came to my mind?

Lauren 46:14

Right off right off the top of your head.

Frank 46:16

That is insane. It was just and I'm sorry, this is just a download, Pensacola.

Lauren 46:23

It just came to me.

Frank 46:24

Anyway, they you know, they want to be like casual people, but uh for two years we've been having almost weekly revelations, and sometimes the kids are there for it. Sorry, guys. Yeah, but I will say that that as far as like the household they grow up in, yes, we talk about Teen Titans, yes, we talk about not just DC, we talk about Marvel, we talk about Wicked, yeah, we talk about Potoman, his amazing friends, yeah. And sometimes we talk about ghosts and healing and all this weird shit.

Lauren 46:53

Yeah.

Frank 46:54

But it's a it's fun, it's fun, and yeah, sometimes someone comes upstairs and says, Oh, hey, there's a ghost downstairs, and nine times out of ten these days, it's listen, I'm cooking dinner and I uh can you just ask them what they want? And like, no joke, and it's fine, it's just part of the like fabric of our reality now, and it's not that strange.

Lauren 47:18

Well, now also we have to do the work of like it's not a matter of I don't believe you because ghosts aren't real. It's okay, how much of this is like you know, our son just turned four. How much of this is like three, four-year-old imagination, like get out of here, ghosts! Yeah, and like you know, you're you're fighting like what you think I don't know, it is like a made-up story. Yeah, I have like versus actually seeing someone in your room.

Frank 47:51

They like get out of bed so often that I put like a little security cam in their room years ago. So whenever I hear something like that, I'll go review the tapes. And and sometimes it'll be like, our son just legitimately saw his own shadow on the wall and yelled at it. I think however I wanted I just wanted to say sometimes the people that are skepti skeptical out there are skeptical for a good reason. Kids make shit up.

Lauren 48:16

Yeah.

Ethics Of Mediumship For Kids

Frank 48:17

And we are very carefully trying to train our kids that the art of discernment, which is important for adults too, right? Uh, you know, how do you how do you differ between your imagination versus what's actually coming in?

Lauren 48:30

Yeah.

Frank 48:30

There is a difference, and the difference is so slight that you have to be you have to be mature about it. And kids, by definition, are not mature. And it takes a little bit of guiding.

Lauren 48:41

Well, it's also like teaching them ethical mediumship. Like Jean is now old enough for us to say, hey, listen, being unethical can hurt people who are really grieving the loss of a friend, family member, or pet. So don't make stuff up. Don't use your imagination to connect the story or create a narrative around little tiny bits of information. Like if you if you get a name, great. If not, do not make it up. If you sense like the way someone speaks, tell us that. If not, don't make it up. Like we keep, you know, we've learned so much from all of these psychic mediums that we've talked to that we're able to say use ethics. Because I feel like that's a huge theme from what we've learned from everybody.

Frank 49:38

Yeah.

Lauren 49:39

And not putting your own, you know, an eight-year-old is gonna want to embellish a story a little bit because oh, that's more interesting.

Frank 49:46

Well, there's it's not just embellish either. It's like want wanting to get it right, right? Yeah, yeah. That thing that we're training them in school, hey, like do your best, like learn the facts, do all the stuff. That same that same skill set does not tran translate into psychism.

Lauren 50:01

Yeah.

Frank 50:02

It's it's like you can't dig for the answer. You can't work for it. You literally have to not work for it. You have to turn all that stuff off.

Lauren 50:08

Yeah.

Frank 50:08

So, I mean, it's it's a it's admittedly a difficult, a difficult dichotomy to navigate.

Lauren 50:15

Yeah. Truthfully, we found out three years ago when this all happened, and we might not have known if it wasn't for the yard duty, Miss D. Yeah, who stopped me at drop off and said, Do you know your daughter has a gift? And I said, What do you mean? She was five years old and running off on the 100th day of school in a little old lady outfit. Oh my god, that's right.

Frank 50:41

She was dressed as an old lady that day.

Lauren 50:43

Yeah. I was like, What do you mean? And then she told me the story, and I came home and told Frank.

Frank 50:49

And we were like, This Frank, who's sitting comfortably in his uh, what do you want to call it? I'm gonna call it sustainable trauma, right? I'm I'm I'm sweating uh editing a video for a corporate company.

Lauren 51:04

Yeah.

Frank 51:05

Uh it's I hate the video, I hate what I'm doing, and then I am told that uh my daughter heard a voice in her head and go, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. What?

Lauren 51:18

So this was a week after it actually happened. And because it was so natural to Gene, she didn't tell us about it.

Frank 51:29

But also, she wasn't super comfortable with it.

Lauren 51:31

Not at all.

Frank 51:32

She has no, this is not, you know, think about this. You're four, four, five. You're five, you've been living your life, you get it. You get it now, you know everything, right? And and suddenly this little like voice pops up in your head and tells you to tell a stranger something as egregious as your mom died. You know, she had there's no there's no guidelines around this.

Lauren 51:53

Yeah.

Frank 51:54

And and she uh being uh well, I I said a very entertaining and enthusiastic kid, when something comes across her desk that she doesn't quite understand, she shuts down. That's a burial right there. She buries anything she doesn't quite get, and um maybe it'll come up later.

The Origin Story With Miss D

Lauren 52:13

Well, and she she just signed it off as like, my brain is smart and it tells me things. So when we asked her later that day, did anything interesting happen recently? And she was like, No. Like, can you think of anything? She's like, Oh yeah, we got to use tablets in the class. No, no, anything with Miss D. And she's like, Oh yeah, I know that her mom died. Like, okay, okay, we're getting somewhere. And then she did not want to talk anymore about it. We're like, was it your voice? Was it someone else's voice? And she's like, it was I think it was someone else.

Frank 52:48

And that's the other interesting thing about like kind of digging for answers, is the more you dig, oftentimes they feel like they're expected to come up with answers.

Lauren 52:59

Yeah.

Frank 52:59

So she starts, we're digging, so she starts digging, and then we start getting answers that aren't like that just don't line up, right?

Lauren 53:06

Yeah.

Frank 53:07

Or like it'll change from like minute to minute. And even though we still have that core foundation, that's core truth of like, no, this happened.

Lauren 53:14

Yeah.

Frank 53:15

We're just trying to know more about it. So, you know, yes, five-year-olds might not be the most reliable people to get real detailed information from, as it turns out.

Lauren 53:25

She said, tell her that tell her that her mom died.

Frank 53:31

Like, okay. What she did say is that the voice kept saying it over and over again in my head until I did it, and then it went away.

Lauren 53:39

Yeah.

Frank 53:39

And I was like, well, that's A, cool, B, creepy, and C, oh my God, I think we need to talk to somebody. Let's make a podcast.

Lauren 53:49

Which was didn't happen till six months later.

Frank 53:52

Yeah.

Lauren 53:53

Because then we would try to, you know, then you ask her a question, she's like, Can we stop talking about this? And then casually, you know, a month or two later, she's like, I think someone in our house, I think someone died in our house a long time ago, but they're nice. Like, what?

Frank 54:10

Yeah.

Lauren 54:10

What do you mean? The like, and then she doesn't give any more information.

Frank 54:14

The daily blindness of not knowing what she's experiencing was like too much. For I mean, you know, we know what human design is and stuff. I had no idea what the hell I was talking about.

Lauren 54:23

Yeah.

Frank 54:24

I'm I'm an investigator. I want to know a little bit about a lot of it.

Lauren 54:27

Yes.

Frank 54:27

And I was like, oh no. I feel like ghost adventures is not the greatest source of information for this shit right now.

Lauren 54:37

Yeah. But then, you know, at some point the the fear became really strong, and she started having nightmares and and sometimes acting a little funny, like not quite herself, and that was weird. Yeah. And it felt like really intense, and it felt like maybe this is more than just five-year-old middle of the night fears. So that's when we turned to Dr. Clare and started getting some clarity around the situation. We started having nightly mantras, creating boundaries in, you know, uh around the room.

Frank 55:12

Yeah. Boundaries, protection, all the basic stuff that we didn't even fully understand what we were doing, but we were doing it anyway.

Lauren 55:17

Yeah.

Frank 55:18

Yeah.

Lauren 55:19

And then we said, let's see if we can enhance our own intuition and start a podcast. And so here we are.

Frank 55:28

One time, one time Jean was literally asleep and I couldn't find something, and she started talking and she told me where to find it. And I'm like, it's not there. And then she's like, look harder. Her eyes were closed, she's lying in bed. And I looked again, it was there. And I said, Okay, what is this?

Lauren 55:47

Because it felt very not her.

Frank 55:49

It was weird.

Lauren 55:51

What did she say? Like, it's on the left.

Frank 55:53

It was it was her soccer sock, but it was in my room in a pile of laundry that I needed to like go through.

Lauren 55:58

And it was on your left.

Frank 56:00

She said it was on the left. So and she was laying in bed and I was facing her. She was laying on my bed, she'd fallen asleep there. And yeah, when she's like, it's on the left. She's five. She's like, it's on the left. I figured she meant her left and I couldn't find it. And then I thought, maybe she meant my left. There's no way.

Lauren 56:15

And we had torn the room apart.

Frank 56:17

Yeah.

Lauren 56:18

That's what was so crazy.

Frank 56:19

Soccer game the next day, you know.

Lauren 56:20

Look harder.

Frank 56:23

That was wild.

Lauren 56:24

It was like under a pile. There's no way that she would have even known it was in our room to begin with.

Frank 56:29

But like I legitimately, she was either asleep or in some kind of like half-sleep trance. It was the weird thing.

Lauren 56:35

Yeah.

Frank 56:36

I grabbed the sock, I brushed off the chills, and I was like, oh, uh, okay. What's next?

Living With Mystery And Partial Answers

Lauren 56:43

And then we have our four-year-old son, who, when he was um maybe a year, year and a half. He wasn't speaking yet, so he was like around a year old. I was bringing him back to bed in the middle of the night. He's crying. He wants to leave his room. Suddenly, I'm standing in front of his crib. He and I are the only ones in there, and he stops crying. And he just reached his hand out and stared at something. And I was like, what are you doing? This is very early on. I don't think we had even started the podcast yet. And then he forgets about it, starts crying again, wants to leave the room, stops again, puts his hand out, and I'm like, okay. And I'm holding him and he took my head the back of my head. He liked to make me and Frank a kiss sometimes. But Frank wasn't in the room.

Frank 57:38

He would grab our heads and push them together. Yeah. I'm like, that's nice and green.

Lauren 57:41

I thought it was funny. And Frank wasn't in the room, but he took my head to try and get me to kiss whoever was standing in front of him that I could not see. I said, it was like midnight, and I was like, that's enough. Brought him out to Frank, and I said, our our psychic children are freaking me out tonight. You gotta handle this. Honestly, I truly believe that he probably saw my brother Ian standing at the crib because he stopped crying and like, you know, was was fine.

Frank 58:17

But Yeah, and with the help of Dr. Clara, we knew that that that Uncle Ian was around a lot later.

Lauren 58:23

Yeah, after that. But yeah, uh quite a few series of things that uh were just like, well, I guess this is our this is our norm now.

Frank 58:34

And the other thing that he's been doing, which is very funny, is he has telepathy. Telepathy?

Lauren 58:41

Yeah.

Frank 58:41

He has telepathy. Uh he shouldn't know the answers to somewhat complex math as a as a three-year-old. Especially when one of us just had thought of the answer, and then he blurts out fourteen. It's fine.

Lauren 58:58

And then he doesn't even know how to count up to 14. And he added seven plus seven, but it was really just that he heard me say it in my mind.

Frank 59:07

And then one time he told Gene, we were all eating breakfast, and he goes, he out of nowhere, he goes, We don't have lucky charms. And Gene looked at him and said, What? And he's oh, we don't have lucky charms. And she's like, I didn't say, Oh my god, Dad, Lyndon just read my mind. I was just thinking, I wish we had lucky charms. And he said, I we don't have any lucky charms. And I was like, Oh, what are we supposed to do with that? Why are there no secrets anymore?

Lauren 59:33

Yeah. Yeah. It's gonna be interesting to see how things either develop or maybe he'll maybe he'll lose it. I don't know. We talk about it so much that it's just the norm here now, and it'll be interesting to hear how he talks about things in the in the future.

Frank 59:54

Yeah. Dr. Clare did say that one day in the future that uh Lyndon would treat it as a party trick and make everybody be like, what how the hell did you know that or do that? And he'll be like, I don't know. And I don't know, throw back a jello shot. I hope he's 21.

Lauren 1:00:15

Yeah. Well, now you now you know, now you know more. That's all.

Frank 1:00:21

That's what's up here.

Lauren 1:00:22

And you know, there was like, especially Gene, our little honest, honest gal, as we mentioned in the interview. She felt really uncomfortable with the fact that we weren't that we weren't telling the truth. And we were like, Gene, we're protecting your your truth. Okay. She's like, okay, but still, you're lying to your listeners. So sorry for lying. Yeah.

Frank 1:00:48

We have a stronger ethics commission than anyone in the government right now. So yeah.

Lauren 1:00:52

Little Gene. Well, guys, we'll see you next week.

Frank 1:00:55

See you next week.

Lauren 1:00:56

We love you.

Frank 1:00:57

Love you, dude. Thank you for listening. Visit ClareVoyaging.com for merchandise or to access free resources to help you on your spiritual journey. Subscribe to our Patreon for more content, or join for free to chat with us. Clare Voyaging is a fiscally sponsored project of Fractured Atlas, a 501 C3 charity. Make a tax deductible donation to support our mission to foster understanding, respect, and curiosity for diverse spiritual belief systems. Clare Voyaging is a production of Wayfeather Media.