91. Addicted to Trauma? Break Free and Heal with God: Interview with Dr. Gary Lawrence

In this episode of Curious for Christ, we sit down with Dr. Gary Lawrence, affectionately known as Dr. G, to discuss the hidden impact of trauma on our relationships and emotional well-being—and the hope we find in Jesus for healing. Dr. G, author of Rejection Junkies, shares his insights into how wounds from our past affect how we can experience freedom and restoration through God’s love, truth, and guidance.

Topics discussed:
• The impact of past trauma on our relationships and emotional health
• The root of bitterness and how it can manifest in our lives, creating emotional barriers and hindering healing or transformation!
• Dr. G’s four-step process to emotional freedom: Identify, Isolate, Eliminate, and Equip
• The importance of understanding our identity in Christ and embracing healing
• How God’s love is the key to overcoming past pain and living in the fullness of joy and peace He intends for us

Scriptures mentioned in the episode:
• Galatians 5:22-23 – “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.”
• Proverbs 18:14 – “The human spirit can endure a sick body, but who can bear a crushed spirit?”
• 1 John 4:13 – “Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.”

Resources:
• Learn more about Dr. G and take the quiz: www.rejectionjunkies.com

Action Steps:
• Reflect on the areas of your life where past wounds may still be affecting your present relationships.
• Embrace the four-step process Dr. G shared to identify, isolate, eliminate, and equip yourself with the tools to heal.
• Dive deeper into the Scriptures mentioned, and ask the Lord to reveal any areas where you may need healing or restoration.

Want more?
• Don’t forget to subscribe to the Curious for Christ podcast for more episodes on faith, healing, and growth.
• Share this episode with a friend who could benefit from Dr. G’s wisdom and message of hope.
• Sign up for my free weekly newsletter for more encouragement and resources.

Thank you for listening, and we’ll see you next time!

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Transcript

0:02

Welcome back to Curious for Christ. Today's conversation will speak deeply to anyone who's ever wondered why even after coming to Christ, they still don't experience the full fruit of the Spirit, which is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control Escalations. Five verses 22 and 23 describes. The truth is, while we may be baptized into a new creation in Christ, we can still carry pain, emotional wounds, or broken patterns from our past. So today we are diving into the wounds from our past that we often bring into our present relationships and the incredible hope. We find in Jesus, not religion, not just doing church, but living a life led by the Holy Spirit of God where his love becomes our anchor, our teacher, and our healer. I'm so honored to welcome Dr. Gary Lawrence, affectionately known as Dr. G for decades. Dr. G has helped thousands of individuals and couples uncover, understand and overcome the root causes of emotional turmoil in their lives. Alongside his wife Sylvia, to whom he's been married for 57 years, he's dedicated his life to guiding others towards healing. And wholeness. Dr. G is an expert in uncovering the damaging effects of rejection, what he calls the hidden addiction we all suffer from and how it impacts our lives at every stage. He served for 23 years as the founder and director of the New Life Dynamics Christian Counseling Center, and spent 20 years as the host of the radio show Live Mastery Counseling with Dr. G. Even in retirement, Dr. G continues his mission through his Amazon bestselling book, rejection Junkies, where he helps readers recognize the people, the places and circumstances that keep them stuck while providing practical tools for emotional freedom. Dr. G's passion, wisdom, and life experience are both powerful and transformative. I can't wait for you to hear this conversation. Let's dive in. Welcome to Curious For Christ. Do you ever find yourself lying, awake at night, wondering about God's plan for your life? Maybe you wake up with big dreams, but feel unsure where to start or what your next step should be. If you're curious about exploring your faith and finding purpose, then you've come to the right place. Hi, I'm Alexandra. I too felt lost, unsure of the direction my life was leaking. I yearned or understand my purpose and have someone guide me. But I kept telling myself I was too busy. The timing wasn't right, and my lack of clarity prevented me from being consistent until I found Christ. He brought peace into my life and revealed the way to find purpose by anchoring myself. In him. In this podcast, we'll journey together exploring the Bible to gain a deeper understanding of him and cultivate your own personal relationship with Christ. So open up your Bible, put in those earbuds and listen up because God is speaking to you. He's making everything new and you don't wanna miss it. Let's get started. Good morning Dr. G and thank you for being here with me today. Oh my goodness, Alexandra, thank you so much for inviting me, and it's a joy to be here and get acquainted with you. That's great. Thank you. And you have such an interesting story that, I know that a lot of us can relate to it. You've spent years helping people understand the roots of emotional pain and how unresolved rejection shapes the way that we live and love. So I'm excited to dive into that today and I'd love for you to start. Sharing your journey and what led you to write your book Rejection Junkies? I became a Christian. I was 20 and a half years old and my background is one of, atheism and my parents both were atheist, they were extreme alcoholics. I was raised an environment of hostility, physical verbal, and emotional abuse. And then I went to a Baptist church when I was 20 and a half years old for the first time, heard the gospel, and after about five weeks, I became a Christian. And then three months after that, I went off to Bible college that this was clear back in 1965. Isn't that something? That's a few years ago, isn't it? I'm nice. But un unfortunately, when I became a Christian, immediately, the first week after I became a Christian, I heard now that you're saved, stop your smoking. That's good. So I quit smoking. Now that you're safe, quit. You're drinking. Okay, I, I quit drinking alcohol. Now that you're saved, give up sex. Now I say, whoa, wait a minute here. You're getting too personal, right? And the message I heard was, now that you're a Christian, stop living, stop every habit you have. So my focus that I was given was on my outward performance, not my inward position. And I tell every child of God, every Christian, no matter what church they're a member of, that our relationship with the Lord is based not on our performance for Christ, but based on our position in Christ. A lot of Christians, get this message. The more you do, the more you behave, the more you produce, the more value that you have to God. That's just not true. We have value to the Lord because that's why he went to the cross for us. Does that make sense? Absolutely. Absolutely. I think the western world relates very much to this performance mindset. Sure. And trying to find answers in Christ, but yet we find ourself stuck in the same patterns right now, I'm gonna say something that may jar your grandma's preserves, but I'm gonna go ahead and say it. Okay. I encourage every Christian to stop living for the Lord. Now that's a different way to look at it, isn't it? Okay. I encourage every Christian to stop living for the Lord because frustrated Christians live for the Lord. Spirit controlled Christians. Let the Lord live through them. But many Christians have never been taught how to get free mentally and emotionally from their past. Sylvia and I, met in Bible college. And I'll never forget, it was my second year there and I said to my roommate, I said, you see that beautiful brunette down there? And he said, yeah, what about her? And I said, I'm gonna ask her out for a date. I said, I'll probably end up marrying her. And he goof alled it, and laughed at it. But the fact is, four months after we met, we got married. Now that was 58 years ago. Okay. And so that was a long time ago, but we didn't understand how emotionally damaged we were. We were perfect in Christ, spiritually. We were complete in Christ, but the mental and emotional patterns from the past had total control of us still. I say it like this is the truth that I want your audience to embrace. I encourage them to accept it as truth, but it is true. By age eight, 80% of your emotional patterns are formed by age 18, 100% of your self image is formed. So lemme say that again. By age eight, 80% of your emotional patterns are formed By age 18, 100% of your self image is formed. So what you do, you go into your twenties and your thirties you get an education, you learn how to make a living. The older you get, the less opportunity you have to mature emotionally. Let me share this story with you, Alexandra. But this was years ago. I had a couple come to me. He was 80 years old and his wife was 76. They'd been married 50 some years. And when he heard me say by age eight 80% our emotional patterns are formed, he interrupted me. He said Dr. G, what you're telling me is that I'm an 80-year-old, 8-year-old. I said, yeah, you're right. Just because a person gets older physically doesn't mean that they get wiser mentally and emotionally. You literally are locked into old emotional patterns. Any man that's married, any woman that's married, when they stood on that altar and they said I do, they were actually committing their lives to the entire background. Of the person they're getting married to. You married their family, you married their heritage, you married all the mental and emotional turmoil that they've had in their background. I've been married almost 20 years, and I definitely see that even though Sure we we love God and we are daily committed to, reading the Bible and being led by the Spirit. And so I definitely see what you're saying as being true. What are some common signs that you can tell. Someone is stuck in cycles of rejection. What are the patterns? How do they show up in relationships in marriage? In my book, rejection Junkies there's a chapter entitled, Rejection Win. And I have a list of about 250 different examples of rejection, but basically there's two types of rejection. There's overt rejection, which is very obvious. That's very easily seen, very easily detected. And then there's covert rejection. Now covert rejection is the most difficult to deal with. For an example, if a person's raised in an environment where there's zero physical affection given there's little or none as far as verbal verbalization and affection given they're going to grow up in an environment where they've learned to survive without that type of acceptance. Sylvia and I, when we got married. Even though we were saved and even though we were filled with the Holy Spirit of God, we had all these mental and emotional patterns from the past. Now I say it like this, in every marriage there's a parent and there's a child. In every marriage, there's a dominant personality and a passive personality. It has nothing to do with gender. Okay. And in our background, I became the parent. Sylvia became the child. Her mother. Was a very narcissistic, hostile, physically abusive personality. Sylvia learned to hide from her mother by hiding to get away from her mother's anger. So year after year of being abused by her parents, sylvia learned the mechanism of withdrawing. She became what we call the escaper. Now, on the other hand, I was raised in a in a hostile environment with physical and mental and emotional abuse. I was the fourth of four children, and my father believed my mother got pregnant by another woman. Okay, so I was not his child, and so that's why there was so much physical and emotional abuse there. But I handled my rejection. By being a survivor, I will fight back. So in college, when Sylvia and I met, she was the Escaper. I was a survivor. She needed someone to dominate her, and I needed someone to dominate. We play that game. I'll reject you before you reject me. Opposites attract. And that's why I wrote the book Rejection Junkies. You are unconsciously unwittingly hooked and addicted to emotional patterns from your early childhood that you carry through your adult relationships. Lemme say it like this. The older we are, the less opportunity we have to mature mentally and emotionally. We will stay in that prison of self-rejection and continue to reject others until we learn how to get free mentally and emotionally. I. And so how do we get free? What are some practical steps that you could share with us to start breaking free from these cycles? I'll tell you what lemme tell this story. We were missionaries to Canada. I had a great ministry. We started a church in Winnipeg, Manitoba. I didn't know a person. In six months, we had 170 in our congregation. In three years, we bought five acres of land to build a 450 seed auditorium. And then we had an educational facility for our private school. Then I had a weekly radio broadcast. It was Life Mastery Council with Dr. G. So my ministry was being tremendously blessed of God, but my marriage was in shambles. She wasn't happy with me and I wasn't happy with her. She had finally decided the best thing for her to do is to leave me, that she couldn't make me happy. And that's true because I was so critical. I was raised in an environment where being critical was part of our daily routine. I learned how to be critical. It wasn't her, it was the mental and emotional pattern that I had learned. So I thought, you know what? I didn't get married to get divorced, so I said, Sylvia, if you don't leave me, see, I was more concerned about my precious reputation. Than I was about what did she need mentally and emotionally and spiritually? I said, if we believe the word of God has the answer to every problem, I'm going to get into the word of God and find out why we are rejecting each other on the level that we're rejecting. I. Because I didn't get married to get divorced, and so I started to study what is the underlying cause? What's their root problem? Hebrews chapter 12, verse 15. Says, look, diligently examine yourself very closely, lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you. And there my many be defiled. And then I start studying what's called the generational pass down. The Bible says that our heavenly Father will visit the sins of the fathers upon the third and fourth generations. Now, he's not talking about punishing the third and fourth generation. He's saying, I will visit the third and fourth generation with the same grace and mercy and forgiveness that I have visited your fathers with. And so I began to understand that bitterness is a generational pass down. Now here's the truth, Alexandra. Bitterness comes from all different formats. For an example, a sense of abandonment. You show me someone that has a pattern of abandonment or a sense of abandonment. I'll show you someone that's bitter. I. You show me someone that lives in fear. I'll show you someone that has a ru bitterness show me someone who has a wounded spirit. I'll never forget this. Sylvia and I, we were returning to our home in Albuquerque, New Mexico. That's why we started our new Life Dynamics Christian Counseling Ministry. And I had just started. And there were so many troubles still. And I said, Sylvia, I've decided I'm just going to file for a divorce. I'm not mad at you. I'm not angry. I just give up. And she says, why? I said, I cannot live the rest of my life. I. With someone that's emotionally damaged and you are so damaged you don't enjoy life. I can't bring that joy to you. We're both Christians, but we're both miserable Christians. And I know there's a lot of people listening to us right now that have that question. If being a Christian is so wonderful, why am I still so miserable? Okay, and I'm going to explain that in a minute. So anyway, I said so I'm going to go ahead and file for divorce. And she literally screamed out, would, I'm not like you. And I said, what do you mean you're not like me? You're always mad, you're always upset. You're always demanding. Now, I said, Sylvia, you're absolutely right. You're not like me. Okay, but you have a wounded spirit. When your father sexually abused you, he wounded your spirit. And I said, you are sad in your spirit, in your attitude, in your frame of understanding the value of life. And I'll tell you what, Alexandra, she began to cry. Weep and sob. She realized that she had a root of bitterness. My problem was not Sylvia. Sylvia's problem was not her husband. Our problems were our backgrounds. When we got married, we, dragged all that emotional and mental garbage into that relationship. Does that make sense? Yes, absolutely. And I also see that those conflicts and those conversations, this is also God's grace showing and what's beneath because he is, he wants us to be healed, right? He wants us to be like Christ, but he cares for us and he wants us to be healed, right? So there's spiritual salvation, but there is also healing that we need in our spirit. Actually not in our spirit. Let me explain this. Man is the triunity. We are created in God's image. God, the Father, God's Son, and God the Holy Spirit. So we are the human being. We are a human physically. We are human, spiritually. We are a human, mentally and emotionally. When we come to Christ, we receive the Holy Spirit. Now, in first John, chapter four, verse 13. Hereby know we, that we dwell in him and he and us because he has given us of his spirit. Okay. Now you're a female, right? Correct. Okay. What did you do to become a female? Nothing. Nothing. You were born a female? Okay. Okay. Are you more of a female now than you were when you were a baby? No. No. So when we get saved, the Holy Spirit of God comes in and dwells in us. Is the Holy Spirit God perfect? Yes. Yes. So then spiritually we are perfect. Complete in Christ. Do we act like it? No. Now why is that? That's part of the triunity man. We are a spirit, but we are a soul. What is the soul? The soul is comprised of three elements. The soul is our mind. That's what we know to be true. It's our emotions. That's what we feel to be true, and it's our will. That's our ability to respond to life circumstances. Now, when what we know and how we feel are in collision, our will, our response mechanism is damaged. So instead of responding with the fruit of the spirit love, joy, peace, long, suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance instead of responding with the fruits of the spirit. We respond with chaos. We respond with fear. Anxiety feelings of insecurity, feelings of inferiority anxiety sexual conflicts. Addictions physical substances, that's our default. Based on in our stories. Exactly. Exactly. Now, follow me if we're perfect in the spirit, but we are really chaotic in our soul. What's the answer here? To get rid of what's causing the chaos in our soul. See, Sylvia was not my problem. My problem is my bitterness towards her father and mother. My problem is my bitterness towards my mother and father. So to clear up any conflicts in any marriage relationship or if you're single in, in your relationship with yourself and with the Lord, you've got to learn how to identify those roots of bitterness and then see where they have polluted your life mentally and emotionally. Because they were complete spiritually, but we're all messed up mentally and emotionally. Yes. Thank you. Does that make sense? Absolutely what you said really resonates. We are made whole spiritually through Christ, but often the mind and emotions are still catching up, still in need of healing and renewal. The word of God is such a powerful place to start, however, because it reflects back where we really are and invites us to walk in transformation with the spirit. I think of the man who was paralyzed. Jesus first said, your sins are forgiven, addressing his greatest need, which is salvation. But then he said, take up your mat and walk. Bringing physical healing too. It's such a powerful picture of how God works from the inside out. Without the word of God, we would have known enlightenment. Okay. Without the word of God, we would have no truth. We would have no basis of understanding at all because the Bible tells us in the Gospel of John, in the beginning was the word and the words with God, and the word was God. Both of my parents are I hope they're with the Lord now. I don't know, I've never heard either of my parents ever talk about the Lord Jesus. But it is so sad because so many Christian people continue to live lives void of the fruits of the Holy Spirit. Because of the mental and emotional prison they've been living in. So when people come to me for life coaching, I literally spend a period of time with them where I take their life history. I say it like this, I've got four basic steps. First of all, I want to identify the underlying problem, not treat the symptom. Now I'm going to give a real far out example of this, okay? I had a couple come to me many years ago. He was involved in an extra marital affair. And he was in total denial of it, and his wife was very upset and she's in tears. So I asked her if she would step out in the receptionary. I need to talk to her husband. So she did. And when she closed the door, I looked at him and I said, now I'm gonna ask you a question. And all I'm asking you to do is be honest with you. You're not in trouble with me. Are you having an extra marital affair? And he looked down at the floor and I said, no. Look at me in the eyes and answer me yes or no. You're not in trouble with me. Are you having an extra marital affair? And he said, yeah, I am. But if I tell you about it I have to give it up. I said, oh no. I wouldn't expect you to give up that affair. He looked at me like I had snakes in my hair. And he said, what? And I said, oh, yeah. I said, stop and think about all the lies you've told to have this affair. Stop and think about all the money you've spent having this extramarital affair. Stop and think of all the heartbreak that you've caused as a result of this affair. I said, you worked hard for this affair, okay? I wouldn't take this affair away from you for nothing. Okay, you will just keep paying the prize for having the affair, whether you end up divorced or not. And I said, here's why. And he looked at me, he said, are you a Christian counselor? I said, yes, I am. I said, but here's the thing, I'm not going to focus on your outward behavior. M going to focus on your inward bitterness because your affair is not the problem. It's that's just a symptom. But if we can identify and eliminate what has caused this behavior in you, the affair is going to disappear. And you know what? It was less than six months later, they finished the counseling. The affair disappeared. And their marriage was brought back together on the level of total genuine forgiveness and acceptance. Isn't that cool? And so we really had a great time. That's great. Now I'm covering a lot of ground. Am I going too fast? No. And thank you for sharing all that you shared. It's very insightful. You mentioned identifying the roots. Of yeah, I, I identify the underlying problem. Second thing is isolate the underlying problem. Find out what's happening in your life that's created the chaos you have. Then after we identify and isolate, then the third thing I do is I put my clients in a position where they can eliminate the underlying problem. No longer go on coping with the past, but get free from the past so you can step into the present and design the future that you want. Identify, isolate, and eliminate. And then fourth goal is I want to give you the tools, the knowledge, the practical information you need to build your life on a solid foundation of truth and eliminate all chaos. For an example, I'm going to teach men how to love their wives. My dad, he never taught me how to love a wife. Now he taught me how to yell at a wife. He taught me how to neglect a wife, but he did teach me how to praise a wife. He didn't teach me how to adore a wife. He didn't teach me how to love a wife like Jesus loved the church. And I wasn't capable of doing that mentally and emotionally until I got free of the bitterness that was in my soul. Right there. Here's what I encourage your audience to do, Alexandra. They go to my website, rejection junkies.com. That's that word, junkies. It's spelled J-U-N-K-I-S rejection junkies.com. I'll put the link in the show notes so our listeners can find it easily. Great. And then on my homepage, down in the right bottom of my homepage, there's a quiz. Are you a rejection junkie? And they can hit that button and fill out that quiz. And if they're put their phone number in, I will personally call them back. And we will schedule a 30 minute no cost evaluation of their quiz. Are you a rejection junkie? As a matter of fact, I think I just received yours, didn't I? Yes, I saw the quiz from rejection Junkies and I wanted to go through it, especially, so that I would have a sense of the kinds of questions it asks for anyone listening. And yes, I definitely relate. I've experienced past trauma and I was very aware of that even going into my marriage. But at the same time, I also knew. Not without difficulty, but that with God, I could overcome those patterns. And I believe that I could learn to love the way he intended love to be and the way he intended marriage to be. What you and I have to do, we're have to get together and schedule that 30 minutes so I can go over it with you. Okay, thank you. But the bottom is understanding our position in Christ is one of the most important truths that any Christian can embrace. So many Christians are so busy serving God, they are not enjoying their relationship with the Lord. Okay. And I say things in a shocking way, but if I can get people to stop focusing on their weaknesses and start drawing on their strengths, we can turn their whole life and their relationships around. That's great. Thank you for sharing that. Oh, my goodness. Thank you for the opportunity to be your guest, it's been a joy, besides the website, is there anywhere else where our listeners could find you? I do everything through my website. I'm retired at this time of my life and I decided I'm going to do life coaching via the internet. I only spend about 10 to 12 hours a week working with other people, I'm at the place in life now. I can afford to say no to someone if they're willing to say no to themselves. But if there's anybody listening to this podcast interview, they genuinely want to take some time outta making a living so they can make a life, go to my website, fill out that quiz. Are you rejection junkie and I will personally get back to you. Thank you very much, Dr. G. Thank you for your time today. It was great to hear your stories and and the way you help people. Thank you for doing that. Oh, it was my honor, and thank you so much, if I was there, I'd give you a big hug. Thank you. Okay, bye-bye. Bye. What an insightful conversation. I hope you found it helpful or maybe even recognize some patterns in your own life that you can begin to address. This discussion has made me reflect more on the soul and the spirit as well when we experience trauma or family pain, both our soul and spirit can be impacted in different ways. The soul, which includes our mind, emotions, and will often carries the scars of trauma. It affects our identity, trust, decision making and emotional expression, and shows up as anxiety, shame, fear, or emotional numbness. The spirit which connects us to God may not be emotionally wounded, but can feel crushed. Proverbs 18, verse 14 says, the human spirit can endure a sick body, but who can bear a crushed spirit? A wounded spirit can look like hopelessness, disconnection from God's purpose or spiritual abandonment as well, but here's the beautiful news. Both the soul and the spirit can be healed. Through God's presence, his love, his word, safe relationships, and sometimes with the guidance of coaches and counselors, we can experience profound transformation as a friend reminded me this week, it all comes back to love. It's his love that compels us with God. You can overcome all things and have the joy restored that he originally intended for you to live. I really appreciate Dr. G's approach of not just addressing the symptoms but going to the root cause. His four step process is simple, yet powerful. Number one, identify the real underlying problem, not just the symptoms. Number two, isolate where the problem came from and how it's affecting you. Number three, eliminate it so you're not just coping with the past, but completely. Free from it. And number four, equip yourself with the tools and truth to build your life on a solid, biblical foundation. If you want to learn more about Dr. G or take his, are you a Rejection Junkie quiz, visit his website@www.rejectionjunkies.com. The link is also in the show notes. If you think this episode might help someone you know, please do me a favor and share it with them. And don't forget to sign up for my free weekly newsletter for more encouragement from Cures for Christ by becoming an insider. The link is in the show note as well. Let's close in prayer, god, thank you for being the healer of both our spirit and soul. Thank you for loving us through every broken pattern, every place of rejection, and every wound we carry. Today, we invite you to reveal what needs to be healed. Help us identify the roots. Not just the symptoms. Teach us to live from a place of truth and love. Guided by your Holy Spirit restored the joy we've lost and renew the life we've always intended for us. In Jesus' name, I prayed a. Men. So take a few moments and ask yourself this week, where in my life am I reacting from past pain instead of present truth? What might God want to heal in my soul or awaken in my spirit? Write down any patterns you notice, and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you in truth and freedom. Thank you for listening, and I'll see you next week. Hi, I hope you enjoy today's episode. If so, would you like to take 30 seconds and share it with a friend who may also struggle with knowing God and his purpose for their life? Also, leave a review on Apple Podcasts and let me know what topics you'd like to hear about in the future. Your voice matters. I'll meet you back next Friday. For another episode.