Grandma's Letters

Join us in Minneapolis for a special live recording of "That's a Good Question" with our delightful guest, my grandmother, Clara Korb. We kick off with the logistics of my flight and a funny story about a game download gone awry. Grandma Clare brings her unique perspective on Midwest living, the quirks of hay fever, and precious family memories. We even chat about how foods like hummus impact our health and the value of community support for our elders.

Next, we ponder the fascinating idea that humans might experience up to 27 different senses. From proprioception to the sense of gravity, we explore how these senses influence our daily lives and set us apart from animals. Our chat delves into the cognitive abilities that make humans unique and what a richer sensory experience could mean for our understanding of the world. It's an enlightening conversation that spans science, philosophy, and everyday life.

Finally, we take a trip down memory lane with stories of fire dancers, firecrackers, and playful pranks like soaping windows. Our nostalgic journey continues with reflections on 1930s Christmas traditions, childhood belief in Santa Claus, and the magic of metaphors. We wrap up with some whimsical musings on creative collaboration and metaphorical motorcycle trips, underscoring the importance of taking initiative and savoring humorous moments. Tune in for a heartfelt episode brimming with laughter, wisdom, and thought-provoking insights.

Transcript

Grandmother Claire

Ben 0:00

This episode of that's a Good Question is recorded in Minneapolis Minnesota. This episode of that's a Good Question is recorded in Minneapolis Minnesota.

Ben 0:13

Three two one zero. You're on the air, Scott. I know we didn't prepare a script, but the world is really waiting with bated breath for what you have to say after what happened this evening.

Scott 0:38

I saw a bat fly overhead in the dusk. That happened. What else happened? We're, we're like, uh, talking in person. That is what happened. Yeah, yeah, that's true, we're talking in person and, um, we have a, and because of that, we have a special guest, because if we were going to get together, we needed a place to stay right.

Ben 1:09

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, scott flew me out tonight to record a very special edition of this podcast in person. All expenses paid, trip.

Scott 1:21

No, you're going to have to work. It's his paid trip. No, you're going to have to work.

Ben 1:29

I was actually really hoping I wouldn't have to, because on the airplane today I had to massage my forearm for like one straight hour because I had to catch up on all the weed whacking at work.

Scott 1:37

Well, maybe it'll be knowledge work then. That works for me, so you don't have to use your muscles, it works for me.

Ben 1:45

Or if you need me to swim somewhere, that'd probably be good for me. Still, although I don't really know, there's a lot of elbow, a lot of elbow.

Scott 1:59

It's probably fine, though, and I'm not sure of how much you get paid to swim.

Ben 2:08

Well, that's up to the person paying me, isn't it? Okay, all right, and I guess, at this point it's just uh work trade to uh yes for for for the all expenses paid trip.

Scott 2:21

Okay we're in minnesota, what do you?

Ben 2:25

yeah, what do you have planned for this? All expenses paid, trip for me to minnesota.

Scott 2:29

Uh, we're gonna leave and go to wisconsin as soon as we can, but right now we're right now we're downloading the game super wipe out, white out, survival.

Ben 2:42

Because my sorry, because my dad just accidentally clicked something on his phone and started a download of 6.6 megabytes. I don't know how you get an entire game with 6.6 megabytes, but, um, sorry to interrupt, but technically you interrupted.

Scott 3:00

So okay, yes, I did interrupt to say that this is a special podcast we're doing. Where are we doing this podcast?

Ben 3:12

minneapolis, minnesota, just like on bean. If anyone here listens to the on bean podcast, you know how it ends. But what is it on? Bean is recorded by on bean studios in minneapolis, minnesota. Except we should instead say it's recorded in minneapolis, minnesota that's at a very special, special person's house who is Advent? Clara Korb.

Scott 3:46

Clara Korb is her name Our guest for tonight's show.

Ben 3:51

We are a guest in her home and she is a guest on our show.

Scott 3:56

And who is Clara Korb? To you, clara Korb.

Ben 4:00

Claire Korb Claire. Claire Claire Corb Claire is my grandmother, my maternal grandmother.

Scott 4:11

Okay, well, she can join the podcast while I Do. You want some coffee?

Ben 4:16

I no, okay, presently 10pm that my circadian rhythms are already all messed up.

Scott 4:23

You can go sit to the right of Ben over there.

Clare 4:26

To the right of Ben.

Ben 4:27

Did you hear that listener? Grandma Claire's coming to sit to the right of me.

Clare 4:34

I can even tell what's.

Ben 4:36

And I don't want coffee.

Clare 4:37

I can tell that from right. You want coffee. No, thank you.

Ben 4:44

I ate some hummus earlier and this Midwest living is already getting me all sorts of messed up Because just hummus in the Midwest. I haven't felt bloated for so long. And then as soon as I eat some hummus. I'm just not feeling it.

Clare 5:00

You're not feeling it.

Ben 5:01

Well, that's where all my bloating came from. You remember hearing all about my bloating?

Clare 5:07

And it's still there.

Ben 5:09

It's going away, though. The belly rub is helping though. Thanks.

Clare 5:14

The what.

Ben 5:14

The belly rub is helping.

Clare 5:17

So the hummus is something you don't want.

Ben 5:22

Well, usually I want hummus, but in this case I don't know if it was the carrots, if it was the cucumber, probably the pita. To be entirely honest Every time I stick my head out the door.

Clare 5:37

I have hay fever. That's been going on ever since I've been a baby, Since you moved. Oh, ever since you were a baby, my sister said I would pound my head against the crib. Well, anyway, it's.

Ben 5:54

Hasn't been going on since you moved out, but that didn't stop me.

Clare 5:59

I thought.

Scott 5:59

Well, you had a lot of energy. I guess you had a lot of energy.

Clare 6:04

Well, I just kept going Life is life.

Ben 6:08

So did you have hay fever or did you just?

Clare 6:12

I don't know.

Ben 6:13

I never knew that it was hay fever. I always thought that whenever I would just exert myself I would get like a runny nose.

Clare 6:21

Oh, okay.

Ben 6:23

But then someone told me, that was wrong but it was just, it was just usual.

Clare 6:29

Everybody was missing school. You know, every once in a while they'd have a fever or right yeah, couldn't go to school, so you were just part of the part of the mix do you have a fever right now, or just the sniffles? No, sometimes, sometimes I get a hot neck.

Ben 6:47

Me too.

Clare 6:47

But that means I have so much energy inside of me and I need to be with people.

Ben 6:53

Yeah, get the energy out. You need to be with people to get the energy out.

Clare 6:58

Yes.

Ben 6:59

We need communities of care for our elders. It's true, we can't just have these quote unquote angels coming in. Are they really angels?

Clare 7:11

I'm sorry, that's a big topic.

Ben 7:15

Especially considering that the only listeners we have are family members. Oh, oh, no. Well, I don't think it's that. It's a joke. These angels are amazing, but all all I'm saying is that it's not, that it's not that great to have to have someone specialized in caring for our elders like that should be a job of the whole community, and it shouldn't be a job either.

Clare 7:49

No, it isn't because you still have, as you age, you still have energy that you have gotten rid of all your life by either cleaning up on yourself or cleaning up for somebody else.

Ben 8:03

Yeah.

Clare 8:03

Especially if you're the sixth child and there's six older than you are and there's six younger than you are. So you're ironing shirts for the big guys and cleaning out the whatever falls off, and then when you have seven children too. Well, and then my own children. I was around more people, and then my own children. I was around more people, and then my eyes interrupted. I couldn't do my sewing as well anymore, or my artwork as well. And so what do I do? Whatever.

Ben 8:38

What do we do we?

Clare 8:39

go for a walk.

Scott 8:40

We go for a walk Like we just did.

Clare 8:45

Like we just did for almost two hours.

Ben 8:46

We were gone for almost two hours.

Clare 8:49

Well, look at the time.

Ben 8:50

What time is it?

Clare 8:51

It's 9.57.

Ben 8:53

Oh gosh, it's a good thing I'm still on Washington time, so I think that that's what it needs.

Clare 9:02

We have so much energy in our body, we have to move it out, and that's why people are depressed a lot and they'll sleep all day and but can't sleep at night, and it's because their minds are rolling away and then your brain. It doesn't stop, but it somehow it shuts off. There's some chemical that shuts it off. Right, yes, and if you don't have, don't have bodies are very smart that way, and if you don't have that chemical in your body, you get some medication for it.

Ben 9:35

That's what the mentally ill traditionally yeah, so uh, what does that have to do with angels coming into?

Clare 9:48

Well, I have to adjust myself.

Ben 9:50

Yeah.

Clare 9:50

Yeah, an angel is just a word.

Ben 9:54

Angel is a word for someone that comes into your home and is it mostly to keep you company.

Clare 10:01

Well, that's what I'm getting it into, probably doing artwork and we glued together some puzzles. They're down in the basement right now waiting to be framed, and I never used to glue puzzles before, but she was so efficient at it she could really spread that it looks kind of cool.

Scott 10:24

It's in a.

Clare 10:25

Yeah.

Scott 10:26

To just make it a framed finished puzzle and it kind of like I've always thought it was tacky.

Clare 10:33

It's bad we don't have one here right now. We could show it.

Scott 10:37

It's like a brush technique. The whole thing is split up into you just realize it's a composite, it's a mosaic. And where the glue comes up With certain puzzles that can be a look nice, you're saying you made a puzzle of an art piece, right, yeah, there's paintings.

Clare 10:57

One image is kind of by an artist, because I have another picture with a hanging behind a group of people that has the same style as a son. One of those puzzles with the women women sitting around the table uh-huh, uh-huh.

Clare 11:16

I know when I first moved in here there was a picture taken of a group of the children. I don't think you were here at the time because it was during the winter months, because I moved in here in December or so might have been, and it was around that time, around the holidays anyway. So I'll show it to you later, but anyway so.

Ben 11:42

We lost someone, I think there's a puzzle coming.

Clare 11:46

He went downstairs.

Ben 11:47

I think there's a puzzle coming, so does this mean you've actually been piecing the puzzles together also? Well yeah, she had to make the puzzles. Wow, that looks really that's way more fragile than I thought it would be.

Scott 12:00

We can make the puzzle there, just in case we make an ad out of this.

Ben 12:06

Oh, what's the name of this painting? This is a famous painting.

Clare 12:11

I really don't know what that is.

Ben 12:13

I do, you're right, though I'm actually way more into it than I thought I would be.

Clare 12:18

Yeah.

Ben 12:18

Yeah, wow.

Clare 12:21

See, look at how nice kind of the white lines come up and define everything, because before you get it all together, you don't recognize what's fabric and what are they doing? They're sitting down.

Ben 12:36

It's a pretty spectacular color, it's true. Yeah, what are they doing? Are they at a jazz club? Are these?

Clare 12:43

three. I think it'll fit very nice in the basement, don't you think?

Ben 12:47

These women have colorful floors. Their skin is just. Well they're likely deeply white.

Scott 12:58

Three women that are having a good time without any man.

Clare 13:03

They're on the water Thanks for your art historian reflection. They're on the waterfront.

Ben 13:13

That's probably a big piece of the historic significance, I would imagine. Oh, there are boats behind them. It looked to me like they were in a jazz club and other people behind too.

Clare 13:22

See those three people way back there.

Ben 13:24

Yeah, more women having a good time.

Clare 13:26

So they're out on a gathering place.

Ben 13:31

Without any men.

Scott 13:36

So how is this all related to energy? How is this?

Ben 13:39

all related Everything is related to energy, but we're in for for energy, we don't have to say anything for the next half hour. That's exactly right. If it were for energy, we would be sitting here it's either yes or it's no.

Exploring Human Senses and Consciousness

Clare 13:57

Sometimes yes is right, sometimes no is right. And because we're human beings, we have evolved to have a mind and we, as human beings, can make a choice how is the mind of a human different from the mind of a squirrel the squirrel doesn't probably still has a mind a squirrel doesn't have the power of um it has like three thought it right like the thinking power um, okay it has its five senses its eyes, its ears, its nose I once heard that we have like I don't know what the number is, but like 27 senses could be

Scott 14:40

yeah well, probably in different parts of our body yeah, touch all the different kind of touch and like knowing where your limb is, like knowing how each jump, who has their sound?

Ben 14:52

on right now. Who is doing this? Who is interrupting this unbelievable?

Scott 14:58

what amateurs oh, and hold it. There you go. It's a new phone, so it's.

Ben 15:07

It's so new that you have never even used the button that turns the sound off. Anyway, we should get back. I should get back, okay right now it's strapped.

Scott 15:17

Forget me, I'm gonna put it in airplane mode. It'll take a moment airplane mode, so that I remember what we were talking about, so I don't get a phone call in the middle of the podcast.

Ben 15:28

Oh.

Ben 15:29

It's happened before. Oh, the different senses.

Clare 15:33

It will interrupt everything. Is someone else documenting our?

Scott 15:37

This is being recorded right here.

Clare 15:39

Everything we've said so far is being recorded. Yes, we're human beings, aren't we?

Scott 15:46

And there are human beings, and there will be a transcript of it, generated by artificial intelligence.

Clare 15:54

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa whoa. Free speech, Free speech.

Ben 15:59

Free the speech.

Clare 16:01

Yeah, do you watch that program on television?

Ben 16:03

I don't watch any programs on television these days it's called free speech. That's not true. I do watch plenty of programs on television.

Clare 16:12

I don't think anyone heard you say anything.

Scott 16:16

Ben's being a little quiet, she couldn't hear you there was senses.

Ben 16:30

We were talking about senses and and you and you said well, yeah, there's like a bunch of different senses for touching, you know, all your different fingers. I heard that I I think it's more than that. It's like like, for instance, like our sense of gravity, I think I feel like goes beyond the five senses, for instance, you know, and that's like kind of outside of all of those. And so I once this famous dancer actually, who's gotten really really just deep into the philosophy of movement I remember reading some words of his once that said something like 17 senses.

Scott 17:08

He once read somewhere from a research different one from a psychologist or a researcher.

Ben 17:13

There was this body of research that was saying that there's like actually set, we've identified seven different unique senses that the humans are capable of senses and the thing, the thing, the reason why it's interesting is because if you go your whole life just being told you have five senses, but technically as a human you can feel into all of these other ways of feeling and sensing your world, then you pigeonhole all of humanity in this way, you know.

Clare 17:46

So I just thought it was interesting maybe it's a blessing to be 95 years old so you don't have to realize that there are 12 other ways that you want to experience the world that's why I have a hot neck

Ben 18:03

it's, it's, you're just hot. Neck is the sixth sense.

Ben 18:09

I think it's the twelfth.

Fire Dancer Enthusiasm and Childhood Pranks

Ben 18:10

It's fine. The twelfth or the thirteenth, let's boogie, let's boogie.

Clare 18:15

Oh, we did dance in the park, didn't we?

Ben 18:17

We did. We did dance in the park, danced with some fire dancers that had no fire. What do you call those? Oh, that was deep. Fire-free fire dancers fire free.

Clare 18:32

Fire dancers, fire free. But oh yeah, that group that they were practice, practice, fire dancers.

Scott 18:37

You know you don't light up until you learn the moves yeah, it's kind of like that right running through your prescribed fire burn plan how do you get in touch with them? How do they get in touch with their how?

Clare 18:49

would I get in touch with them? Oh, you want to join the fire dancer?

Ben 18:52

well, what time are we there? We're there like monday, at what? Nine o'clock, yeah, so just show up next monday at nine o'clock and they might be there again I don't know how to get in touch with them. I don't. We would have had to stop right then, and there we could have talked to them, taken some initiative well, I could send out a message message.

Scott 19:20

That's how you do it on the internet. You just like send a message out, like a message in a blog. How do you? What medium do?

Ben 19:26

you imagine sending this message, Just like send a message out, like a message in a book. How do you?

Clare 19:32

what medium do you imagine sending this message, Grandma? I think we're on a medium right now.

Ben 19:37

Yeah, but those fire dancers probably aren't going to hear us. The post on Craigslist missed the connection.

Ben 19:45

They might hear this podcast.

Ben 19:46

They might hear this podcast.

Clare 19:47

They might this podcast. You might do the fun hello podcast hello listeners.

Ben 19:51

If you know of any fire dancers in the minneapolis area, please get in touch with either me or my dad and we will make sure to get you in touch with my grandma. With Claire, with Claire, let it be known, may it be so.

Clare 20:14

That would be good defense for me to have you guys do it. I wouldn't be getting myself in trouble with it. Did you have sparklers as a kid?

Ben 20:30

Oh, I did firecrackers, for goodness sakes you did firecrackers, for goodness sakes, you did firecrackers, yes, you did firecrackers but, not sparklers how did?

Scott 20:35

what did you do with firecrackers?

Clare 20:38

well, you would hold them in your hand and then you'd have a match or whatever. You'd light them, then you'd throw it, or you would hide them under a rock, put them under a rock or something, and then you would light it something nearby and then it would reach the fuse on the firecracker and then it would go pop, pop, pop.

Scott 21:04

Do you know anybody who forgot to throw it?

Clare 21:07

No, or didn to throw it. No, or didn't throw it I know people who have lost fingers and so forth because they didn't do it properly or the firecracker was too large. I had a friend who lost, a really good friend who lost. I can't remember exactly what it was, but on one hand because he did.

Scott 21:31

And did you only do it on July 4th?

Clare 21:34

Well, pretty much so. And in the fall November, what's the thing in November 30th or something? Halloween Was it something Halloween. Was it Halloween Thanksgiving? Huh, no, at the end of the oh, October 31st. October 31st, hallow's.

Ben 21:57

Eve.

Clare 21:59

Yeah.

Ben 22:00

Day of the Dead.

Clare 22:01

And I mean people went around and did almost the same thing. Really Okay that soap windows and all kinds of stuff.

Scott 22:11

Did you get windows soaped at your place?

Clare 22:14

Not on the farm, but in the little town of cells. We did.

Scott 22:18

My uncles went and took no there, which would be my great uncle. They took the great uncle's buggy and put it up on top of his barn. Oh, I don't know how they did it. You still don't know how they did it, but the the, the great uncle who lived at the next farm over, just said get it down what were they going?

Clare 22:47

to do fireworks and then no it was just their prank.

Scott 22:53

Put it on, put it on top of the barn turn over different things.

Clare 22:57

Yeah, and soap windows in downtown, in the little town of sales, they would soak everything what is it?

Ben 23:05

what is it? What's the soap?

Clare 23:07

well they would. Um well, they just had a bar of soap and they need run it across the window and it smudge it so the light couldn't go through, or as well. And another thing, if you had a toilet that was just sitting on top of the ground and it wasn't cemented in or fastened to a foundation of some kind, An outhouse.

Clare 23:31

Yeah, they tipped outhouses, yeah, and then at our school they built different ones. When Workman's Project Administration came along, which was the WPA, and that gave work to people who didn't have work, then they built better toilets for everyone, just like they built roads.

Scott 23:55

So you, mean the ones at the school couldn't get pushed over anymore.

Ben 23:58

Yeah, they couldn't get pushed over why?

Clare 24:01

In there, yeah.

Ben 24:04

What did you think of those traditions?

Clare 24:08

It was just something that happened. Well, I don't know if I had brothers that were involved or not, I'm not sure but it was just all the young men, because they were the older children in the community at the time, Because this was way back in the 30s. And when I was only, like before, I was 10 years old, and so it's there was a lot of racket around At Christmas time for Santa Claus.

Clare 24:45

a neighbor would come around and stand by the windows and pretend he was Santa Claus, and I remember from outside of people's houses yeah, I remember just show up at your house yeah, and he's just staring to your family frighten us.

Ben 25:02

He just was saying hello to him saying Santa Claus, you could be out there in the middle of North Dakota in the middle of winter yeah, that's how people hey, that's how people entertain themselves you wonder why it wasn't coming down the chimney well that I mean a lot of that goes through your mind.

Clare 25:23

You know you, it happens um be part of the story, but it never.

Ben 25:29

You never see it as reality never, you didn't I mean, I guess I've always been skeptical I remember like whenever someone asks me like when did you realize that santa claus wasn't real, I always struggled to be like I always feel like I knew that there was kind of bullshit.

Clare 25:50

It's just the magic.

Ben 25:51

It's just the story, yeah, something about, but I didn't care because it was like, well, this is fun, like the adults are in on it too, yeah, like let's do it, yeah, and so to just I think it was the element of play where everybody's kind of you know, it came from the old world.

Clare 26:10

Yeah, really.

Ben 26:11

One of those few rituals that.

Clare 26:15

I've been a skeptic all my life. So whatever seems to come through my mind after years and before I wake up, there's something that passes through my mind that and I still call it poetry, because I don't expect people to see what was real as to what goes through my mind, but when I hear other people have the same ideas and then I give it some substance, and so that's the way I feel, that's the way you mature your mind.

Scott 26:54

You know You're saying you use your imagination and then you think of something, and then, when it reflects on something else in the world, you go like, okay, that's interesting.

Clare 27:07

Yeah, I think we have metaphors for everything. We make a metaphor for energy and that's to me right now, at my age. I'd say, well, that's probably energy, it's really God. So I feel okay saying, well, God is in everything, and so I can't say that I'm not a true believer. I believe in energy and G-O-D. Go on, do it.

Ben 27:43

That's G-O-D-I, that's G-O-D, that's G-O-Di. It's god, that's god. God, go on, do, go on. Did you know that the, uh, that religion, and the, the word the, the term re, and then ligio, it's no, it's glue. Yeah, it's to glue it back together, which maybe is what a legion is, because it's a thing coalesced around something. But the term religion means to just start gluing things that are seemingly separate back together yeah, to make the.

Clare 28:17

You know, that's the idea between putting the human back in the divine, putting the masculine back with the feminine and so religio yeah get a leg on it's another, get a leg on get a leg on say say more yeah, and look at the word leg on legion, legion get a leg on what does it mean to get a leg on?

Clare 28:47

said somebody says we have this organization, like you were just saying what, what did you call it? The joining the firefighters or whatever? You this organization, and I said oh, our firefighters yeah our grandmother my grandmother would like to get a leg on your organization yeah, okay, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Clare 29:13

Wants to get on board, wants to glue, glue herself to you for a little bit yeah, okay, yeah I don't have to glue myself, but I didn't get my leg on gotta get your leg on I don't like I don't have to glue myself to anything.

Exploring Metaphors and Language

Ben 29:27

So religion is about going to the local Presbyterian church and saying, hey, I want to get a leg on in this Right, let me get my legs in.

Clare 29:41

Yeah, metaphor metaphor. What does metaphor mean? T means middle right. Yeah, metaphor metaphor. What does metaphor M-E-T means middle right? And a four. This explanation stands for the reality of that, the assumed reality or whatever that Metaphor we speak in metaphor.

Ben 30:03

Energy, god. So you believe everything is energy and what's the? So you?

Clare 30:10

believe everything is energy. And what's the what's the metaphor there? It's metaphor for energy.

Ben 30:21

Well, I'm because you're saying well it just is energy, but a metaphor is is different than something.

Clare 30:25

Hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot. Go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go go, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. Build up the electric energy, build up inside so you can you go to sleep and then you let your body reclaim itself.

Ben 30:40

What's metaphorical about this, Am I just not? Is it right, you love the action the action yeah the action is just a representation of the your eyes, see it that's true, the reality you're not experiencing.

Scott 31:01

All your right seeing is what your senses tell you yeah sure yeah yeah.

Ben 31:09

So I mean yeah, to be human. To be human is to experience the world through story.

Clare 31:16

And I guess in that way it's all just To help you understand. We use metaphors to help us stand the reality of the unseen.

Scott 31:24

So you're using metaphor, kind of like myth.

Clare 31:27

Yeah.

Scott 31:28

Story yeah.

Ben 31:30

It's to understand, comprehend the unseen, the real, the incomprehensible to try to comprehend the incomprehensible I was um, reading this thing recently about the tv.

Scott 31:44

You remember the tv show lost? Did you watch that? Us lost where they like?

Scott 31:50

crash wreck on a on an island and there's a polar bear and they go through a lot of weird things. So, anyways, cut it short. This guy reviewed it and he said it's a perfect TV series. And most people didn't understand it because they were confused about what he called the dialectic, the opposing things that made for interesting story. And the opposing things were belief and observation. Like the characters who were only observing stuff, they didn't quite have the big picture, and the ones who only believe stuff didn't have the big picture either, and they were all disappointed as and the audience the same way, was disappointed as the stories went on.

Scott 32:40

Wow, and so then, and it ends with no resolution, just like life. You know, you don't know if your beliefs or your observations are which is more accurate, so you're never going to find out well, yeah, or you, it's personal your judgment not. Maybe don't preach it, because it's yeah, it's only your own version of it, except I was just preaching, right there it's your pros and it's okay to preach sometimes.

Ben 33:13

Okay, you gotta see the big picture. Alright, preach sometimes, don't preach other times.

Scott 33:20

It's okay, papa don't preach. That was a Madonna song.

Ben 33:25

So hold your tongue. Is that the?

Clare 33:28

Is that?

Scott 33:29

what Madonna?

Clare 33:30

does.

Scott 33:31

Madonna had a song called where she was complaining about her father being overly critical of her. You know, choices Like well anyways.

Clare 33:47

Whatever?

Ben 33:48

If you're not preaching, then you don't have any passion. If you're not, if you don't have any passion, you're not spirited. If you're not spirited, then it's like well, I don't know. To me it's another instance of like, the whole like. If certain people don't get it and the other ones don't get it, you got to meet yourself somewhere in the middle, the difference between preaching and advocacy is a preacher's toolbox includes like trying to convince you that he's absolutely right.

Scott 34:20

Is that?

Ben 34:21

always the case.

Scott 34:22

Is that?

Ben 34:23

the definition of preaching no.

Scott 34:25

I just made it up, Okay, well you heard it here first.

Ben 34:29

Folks, you can do that with words. I remember Stephen Colbert said that. Well, because ivana, or ivanka, whatever her name is, ivanka trump said once because people were accusing her of being complicit, and she started saying these things like well, let me tell you, if being loyal and being great and being smart and beautiful and honest, if that's what it means to be complicit, then yeah, I'm complicit. It's like well, that's not how argument works. You can't be criticized of something and say, yeah.

Scott 35:15

Well, if this is what you mean by it, then yeah, but any way, which is preaching, means it's there's a short word for it, abbreviated bs. Yeah, if you're right, if you're just right, uh, trying to convince people of something that you don't even care if it's true or not, you're just trying to convince people of it.

Clare 35:34

You're just a bachelor of the science. You're not the science.

Scott 35:37

Oh, oh, is the bachelor of science. A bunch of BS, bachelor of science instead of a partner of science. Are you a?

Ben 35:49

bachelor of science, ted, no, I'm a bachelor of art.

Clare 35:55

Oh, okay. Well, when you're a bachelor, you're studying, though, and you want to right, you are a student.

Scott 36:03

Yeah, your bs is based on knowledge.

Clare 36:07

Yeah, you were a student of well I didn't mean a bs, which means that you know that you can't.

Ben 36:13

you know you're, yeah, preaching, you're not there. That you can't. You know, yeah, preaching, you're not there yet You're a student, you've got to stay humble.

Scott 36:19

It's all wordplay we need a sponsor. Well, this is our time limit here, oh we have a time limit.

Clare 36:46

Yeah, we do, I'm not marketing anything.

Ben 36:50

Who's our sponsor? It can be anything.

Scott 36:52

No, well, you can pick something you want to say hey, I sponsor this.

Ben 36:59

What are you using in your?

Scott 37:01

life right now that you just have appreciation for.

Clare 37:04

Oh, what I would like to do is do a production of the alphabet, because the alphabet, each alphabet, is a character this episode is brought to you by the alphabet and that everyone has movement, everyone has a shape and everyone, even though they change the shape of them through years. I mean, there's so much power beautiful how they've evolved. Yeah, there's so much they're living, they're living things.

Clare 37:39

Yeah, that's intelligence, the integrity, the foresight, the people who created the alphabet, they we need to know more about them and we need to have it spread the whole world wide.

Ben 37:55

There's probably lots of research into who created the alphabet and how it's changed. There is, definitely is it should just be more out there. It should be back there.

Clare 38:05

I can't even remember. It starts with A. I think of the people who wrote it.

Scott 38:09

I was going to ask what are some of your favorite letters.

Ben 38:14

Oh, they all are they all are I mean, you have no favorite, that's like that's like saying who's your favorite human, you know, and it's everybody is so beautiful have you ever spent time getting to know sanskrit? I haven't, but I've spent time doing what? Getting to know sanskrit and that language, because that is, if you want to talk about words and how they've evolved and it's and this the life that they hold within them.

Ben 39:00

Sanskrit is so, so, so alive, and it's I'll have to check into that it's kind of like zen in the art of motorcycle maintenance, where he talks about how the attitude in which you're creating something or using something determines how alive and how like fulfilling it is to use the thing. And I think the English language, the people that are using the English language these days, don't have the same sort of aliveness and appreciation as they use it, whereas, whereas Sanskrit has like the intention and the presence as people use it has like stayed much more there with the evolution of the language.

Clare 39:45

And gobbledygook people saying such dumb words just to get attention, and it's and um yeah, and it's um yeah, ben ben.

Scott 39:57

Do you know where the the journey in zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance started and ended?

Ben 40:05

started somewhere in the southwest of 16 seconds. Am I gonna it?

Ben 40:12

I can't remember what.

Scott 40:13

What is it? South, probably South Minneapolis. Oh really, yeah, okay, cool, wow, and I think it goes Wow, washington Beautiful.

Ben 40:26

You think I don't want to hear that.

Clare 40:28

You think it shows what?

Ben 40:30

It did.

Ben 40:30

Does he go to Washington?

Scott 40:32

I don't know the motorcycle trip where he's trying to like figure out how to fix his motorcycle.

Clare 40:36

He's he's in minnesota and he started here and went to the west coast yeah because I would, I would like to peter um, it's all metaphor anyway, you know, yeah yeah, uh, I wish um peter would. Um, I wish Peter would do something, because he's doing that kind of thing, you know. I wish he would take, you know, the fellow that did that thing in Hollywood, or New York.

Ben 41:08

I wish Peter would jump on a motorcycle and learn how to fix it.

Clare 41:17

No about the alphabet.

Ben 41:18

He could, he could make well and and and he could create a costume, a character you could. You would have to be his collaborator. You know you got to be the first mover on it. You can make it but um well, we need to wrap this up. We need to keep talking, but you're in the timer everyone. We're going way off the cup. We're going way over time. We're so sorry. Oh, we're almost done.

Scott 41:41

We're almost done, but we're still being recorded because, we can be off now and I wanted to tell any last words. Yeah, okay, you have some last, and then I've got some last. I don't have any last okay I loved you all and I'm slightly less bloated now and the peter she claire mentioned was a guest on our podcast back in episode um oh self-plug, episode four lactose tolerance and surprise guests. So, speaking of bloating, check out what, peter, she might have been talking about and thank you, thank you.

Clare 42:21

So we're done now.

Ben 42:22

Yeah, unless you have any last words.

Clare 42:26

Let's start at the very beginning, a very good place to start. When did you begin with ABC? When did you begin with Dome, dome, dome, bye.