Pitch to Pro
Pitch to Pro is the official podcast of Ozark United FC. This will be our platform to tell our story about the club and the special place that we call home, Northwest Arkansas. This is a journey. We want to bring you along for the ride. We'll share what's going on behind the curtain, help educate the community at large about soccer, Our league, and give updates on the progress of the club along the way.
Together, we'll explore and unpack our journey to professional soccer, the magic that is NWA, our community, and talk all things soccer from on the pitch to behind the scenes, telling the story of our club.
Pitch to Pro
Ep. 42 - Inside the Pivot: How Land Deals Shaped Ozark United’s Stadium Plans
The seed for Ozark United FC was planted as "a crazy thought" in co-founder Chris Martinovic's mind years ago, and today, that seedling has grown into a full-fledged plan to bring professional soccer to Northwest Arkansas. In this candid conversation with Managing Director Wes Harris, Martinovic gives listeners unprecedented access to the behind-the-scenes journey of building a professional sports franchise from scratch.
What stands out most is the unexpected enthusiasm from all corners of the community. "I had no idea how excited people would get about it," Martinovic reveals, noting that even self-proclaimed non-soccer fans expressed excitement at the prospect of professional sports entertainment in NWA. The conversation illuminates how the project has evolved from its initial conception, including the exciting announcement of an expanded stadium site that doubles the land footprint and transforms the vision into a sports-anchored mixed-use development.
The financial realities of sports ownership take center stage as Martinovic explains the investment model that drives professional teams. Unlike traditional businesses, sports franchises aren't primarily cash-flow generators but rather appreciate significantly in value over time. This perspective has shaped their approach to finding the right investors, culminating in their newly announced partnership with Prospect Park, a group with extensive connections to family offices and experience in professional sports investments.
Throughout the discussion, the passion for community building shines through. "This is Northwest Arkansas's club, this is your club, this is not our club," Harris emphasizes, highlighting the collaborative nature of the project. From "closet soccer fans" finding their community to children playing pickup games with makeshift goals, the soccer culture in NWA continues to grow organically alongside the more formal development plans.
The vision extends beyond just professional matches to hosting World Cup base camps, creating pathways for youth development, and contributing thoughtfully to the region's growth. But to get there, they need continued community support. Wear the gear, attend events, show up to council meetings - these seemingly small actions make a tremendous difference in demonstrating community buy-in to potential investors and local officials.
Ready to be part of this journey? Follow Pitch to Pro on social media and visit ozarkunitedfc.com to stay updated and find ways to support Northwest Arkansas's path to professional soccer.
Pitch to Pro is the official podcast of Ozark United FC. This will be our platform to tell our story about the club and the special place that we call home, northwest Arkansas. This is a journey we want to bring you along for the ride. We'll share what's going on behind the curtain, help educate the community at large about soccer, our league, and give updates on the progress of the club along the way. Together, we'll explore and unpack our journey to professional soccer, the magic that is NWA, our community, and talk all things soccer from on the pitch to behind the scenes, telling the story of our club. Pitch to Pro Podcast is proudly sponsored by PodcastVideoscom, by PodcastVideoscom. Podcastvideoscom is Northwest Arkansas' premier podcast recording studio, equipped with industry-leading equipment. The recording studio and services save you time, money and hassle. They are dedicated to helping you create, record and publish high-quality podcasts for your audience. Be sure to check them out today at podcastvideoscom.
Speaker 1:Hello everybody and welcome back to the Pitch to Pro podcast. I'm your host, wes Harris, managing Director, ozark United FC, northwest Arkansas's professional soccer club playing in the United Soccer League. Welcome back, guys. We've got a great episode for you guys today. Today, just a really cool special edition episode on deck for everybody. We've got a great episode for you guys today. Today, just a really cool special edition uh episode on deck for everybody. We've got our very own mr chris martinovich, co-founder of ozark united fc, here in studio with me today. Chris, thank you so much for joining me, man wes couldn't be happier to be here.
Speaker 2:Man, how you doing with your one arm uh, we're six weeks in.
Speaker 1:I got another two weeks in the sling and another four weeks after that of no activity, and then we'll maybe think about PT or physical activity again in any restricted sense. So it's a long process.
Speaker 2:But, as you and Warren talked about last time, the game often tells you when it's over and that's not often almost all the time for all athletes. So we all have our moments of when we remember when it ended, and some are. Some are more memorable, like your fall, but glad you're on the mend and getting better yeah, this is.
Speaker 1:Uh, it certainly told me, wish it would have told me less. Uh, it screamed it more subtly yeah, yeah, the gentle tap would have been nice yeah, gentle tap would have been great on my way out the door.
Speaker 1:But no, listen, I think you know this episode is going to be very conversational, as they always are. But this is just going to be a little bit of a build on what our last episode was with Warren and kind of. You know, we released the new LAN site, we had a bunch of announcements, we released a new stadium site and then concepts for what we're trying to build an increased scope and really, really exciting things. Um, and then we brought warren in and kind of gave people a little bit of a peek under the tent. I want to do the same with you today and kind of hear from your perspective too. Um, so, man, this has been a. Nobody has worked on this longer than you.
Speaker 1:Like this has been your passion project, your baby, for a long, long time and you've been driving this longer than any of us. You know from where we started, where you excuse me where you started to where we are now. Just talk a little bit about, like some of the themes, your journey. What are the themes that strike you, Maybe some learnings or just even observations that you think might interest people as, like, behind the scenes views, right like, yeah, I know that that's a loaded question and maybe a lot, but yeah, talk a little bit about that that's it.
Speaker 2:I think one of the themes, um, I think one of the themes is like two themes. One theme in this whole process was the excitement of the community and people.
Speaker 2:We talked to about the idea, even when it was purely a crazy thought in my brain and I started talking to the first few people and I had no idea how excited people in the community would get about it. I had no idea how excited people in the community would get about it. Obviously, I thought it was a great idea because I loved it and it was a concept that I thought our community could really help take us to the next level. Right, we don't have that pro sports vibe and opportunity in our market, and so I did it, you did it. We all drove three, four, five, six hours to go watch pro sports and get entertained, and so it was always something in the back of my brain. But I think I was almost surprised how much the common regular folk in our community was like that's a great idea. I don't even like soccer, by the way, chris, like I would hear that sometimes. Right, obviously, the soccer fan is through the roof Like those. We knew that that was going to be the case.
Speaker 2:When I started to realize that this was an idea we could really move forward with was when a neutral fan, a kind of just a sports fan, maybe not even a sports fan was just saying man, this is great Saturday night I'm looking for stuff to do. I'd love to go, and so that helped me kind of build the idea more and more. So I thank all the hundreds of people that I talked to about my crazy idea where I didn't know how to do it, I didn't know when to do it, I didn't know who to talk to. I didn't know a lot right, I still don't know a lot, but from Warren's expertise, from your expertise, I'm learning all the time right, and so we're always learning right.
Speaker 2:But, I think that was one of the second part was it's harder than I thought it was, but that's my mindset. I'm kind of like, yeah, let's jump in. I'm super positive about ideas and initiatives and it's how I treat a lot of things in my life doesn't mean that I'm always right in them, right, um. But I was like, yeah, we could do this and we absolutely can it. Just, it's taken a long time and that's okay. And what I've learned from Warren and other markets the good thing about SOC community is everybody talks to each other and we help each other. We talk to other projects and there's projects that happen in three years and that's really fast, and there's a lot of projects that happen in five, six years. That might be kind of the end where we all are right. Think about it. We launched our our um. July of 2023.
Speaker 1:Right was when we first said here's our intentions of what we need, what we would like to do in this market yeah, right, and to be clear too, on time, like you've been working on this since 2019, but there are conversations and like, yeah, feeling it out, then we have covid a lot of you know, lose a year there the beginning time is me exploring right, learning, talking to the league, the, you know the three, the three to five to six.
Speaker 1:That is like starting truly working on 23. Ish kind of you know but that's also the average of like, when teams actually decide like we're doing this.
Speaker 2:That's right, we're gonna make a real. There's, underneath the iceberg there's a lot. Yeah, that's there that people just don't see, and that's okay, and that's kind of what we're doing here right.
Speaker 2:Sharing some of that beneath the iceberg, beneath the water of the iceberg, sharing, kind of what that is. So at that point it's just me exploring me, figuring out, me talking to other markets. I have a pretty good connection of soccer folks and they help me. Just, hey, talk to this guy, talk to this guy. Next thing, you know, you end up getting some feedback from five different teams and communities that started up and founded and those are all helpful points and hints, right, until Warren becomes part of the project. Right, and so we wouldn't be where we are without.
Speaker 2:You know somebody who's done this four or five times successfully, every single time, by starting from scratch in almost all those cases and building stadiums, building teams, building franchises, most of which are all existing and very successful. Right, led by Sacramento Republic, which arguably is the one or two most successful team in USL. Right there with Luce City. Right, luce City is really special there. They have a really special program there, led by John Neese and that organization. But I mean what Warren did at sac republic was was a model for for a lot of other um franchises that that have expanded, including this right. It just we've evolved from where that was. I talk on my hands a lot I need to be careful, that's okay.
Speaker 1:Whacking the technology, it's all good. Um, I mean so. Passion from the community, even from the casual soccer fan, and talk about I know you said you're. One of my favorite terms is like you. Through those conversations you found we're going to call them closet soccer fans, where people are like wait, you're a soccer fan too. Oh my gosh, we can talk soccer Like oh, this is awesome and you would never have known.
Speaker 2:Crazy we wouldn't have never known. And some of those people were people that I knew, that knew that I had a soccer background. I played in college, played in the USL, like a fan I go to games. But it never even came up because they were removed from their soccer experience by five, 10, 15, 20 years from the community that they came from right or even just played as a youth and then they trying to struggle of how to fit their soccer passion into the Northwest Arkansas community right, and so we kind of coined them the closet soccer fan. There's a boatload of them and some of them were quasi closet soccer fans. Maybe they played in middle school or high school and were fans. And other ones were wow, you played college soccer. Some of them played pro soccer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think through our conversations I'll give ourselves a little bit of credit here. We've pushed the game up and up and up. Great example I'm driving through my community about a couple months ago and I come to a stop in the middle of the road and I look over and I see four on four soccer going on near a golf course in a non-lined field, that they put up garbage cans and put up little bags to make goals. I was like this is like what they do in Brazil, this is what they do in Italy and Croatia and Europe. I was like this is awesome.
Speaker 2:So I actually stopped by and I'm like this is like, this is like what they do in Brazil, this is what they do in Italy and Croatia and Europe. Like I was like this is awesome, you know. So I actually stopped by and I yell like oh good job guys. They probably thought I was gonna yell at them to stop playing or something. Yeah right. And I was like great job, keep playing and listen. We probably didn't drive that one person, but there is, um, our vision of having a team at this level on the boys and girls and men's and women's side, like that. That that I think that inspires youngsters at some level somehow, some way.
Speaker 1:I believe that, I really believe that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it feeds the bubbling of the soccer community, and so, as you work through a process and there's a lot of this, right, we'll talk about stuff, right, yeah, yeah, I mean it's just, it's a hard project to start from scratch, and so so that in our brains I know the three of us, we all think about that a lot Like okay, today was not a great day, maybe this happened and that happened. Well, what are we going to do? Well, we're just going to get back up and but we did this, we moved these other needles and we think about those positives. And then we think about having 8,000 plus folks in our database that are passionate, and again, some fans, some not soccer fans, some just people that want to support cool things in Northwest Arkansas, right, and so that really keeps us going.
Speaker 1:We're going to ask him for more though we are, and I think, well, I mean, let's talk about it now. That's a great point, because these projects are hard and one of the biggest, you know, realization not realizations maybe, but you know, cause I knew it wouldn't just be the three of us, you know, or whatever our internal group is, but man does it take a village, yeah, and I mean there are countless, almost countless people that we should thank and will thank. You know, along the way, um, we have some incredible third-party partners that are helping us get through this in different aspects of the project. Amazing um fans, supporters, group, like huge shout out to colin and carlos and the starting 11 of the hellbenders and everything that they do.
Speaker 2:a lot of feedback from them like, like we take their feedback with with utmost importance yeah, but like talk, talk I mean talk more about the, the help that we've got.
Speaker 1:Like, hey, we're.
Speaker 2:We're a small team and we need help, like level set right, there's three of us doing this right now as our project. You're the only full-time employee that we have in the organization Congratulations, employee number one. And you literally do everything from A to Z. There's no job description. It's whatever this takes. This is a startup. You have dedicated literally your life to this, and your family has as well, which is commendable and amazing and awesome, right, but it's a lot, you know. Yeah, and you're doing it with one arm, by the way. Yeah, so, um, please excuse his typing errors on his hand yeah, exactly, but, um, you know. And then warren and I, obviously we're fully committed to this, but we also have other things we're doing. Right, we have jobs in other areas, so you're the glue in terms of day-to-day keeping this thing going right. And then think about great partners right, we couldn't do this without Colliers for many years Stone Ward for my branding marketing support. We just talked to them about some other initiatives that we have, right.
Speaker 1:We're not going to go through the list because there's there's so many local groups.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I will shout out am, group am group and her team on the media and socials.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, amazing, crystal, crystal managing with the street team. So we want our objective is to get out to many more events. Like, we're always pushing that envelope on what we can do and how much more we can do. Um, we just can't do what we want to do yet, right, like we're always pushing that envelope on what we can do and how much more we can do. Um, we just can't do what we want to do yet, right, but we're never happy. We're always. Okay, cool, we did one great event, let's do three. All right, we can't do it. I mean, we settle in on two. That's usually how we kind of think about it.
Speaker 2:But as we grow, right, think about, this is an organization that eventually will be 40-ish employees, right, like you know, a legit business that has it, has people that work here, that that live it, and part of that is community support and and and engagement. And so when, when we are at that point, right, then, then you're gonna see this, us and the brand even everywhere, right, oh, yeah, um, for, yeah, for now, our ask is how can you guys help us be out there even more? I mean, this is a silly ask, but like if you bought gear and you have gear, wear it, wear it. It is so awesome. You don't understand how great marketing that is, right, yeah, and how happy we are when we see it.
Speaker 2:By the way, like I'm in the airport sometimes and I like see someone and I usually go up to them and just talk to them, you know, and it's just awesome. And then guess what that becomes like cool and normal and like everyone, oh wow, they're ozark. Okay, this is like a cool look at our colors. Maybe I'll go buy one too. And it's not about the revenue for us we're making a lot of money off of these.
Speaker 1:This is about just building our message and getting getting the brand and allowing fans to support and show their pride. I mean a fun story. Brett from Stoneward, shout out Brett. He texted me the other day and his buddy was in 30A in Florida and was walking just around in the shops and he was wearing his green Ozark United FC t-shirt One cool to just have that out in, like Florida One. Two he passed somebody else did not know them at all with a green OZFC hat and then they stopped each other and met and talked and like oh my God, isn't this great? Like, and this is happening in Florida, like not you know Northwest Arkansas, and there's a bunch of other stories like this. You know that we, uh, and there's a bunch of other stories like this. Yeah, um, you know that we kind of get texted and and learn through others and it's it's awesome to see.
Speaker 2:It's so cool. That's that's like our first ask, right, yeah, like, just be proud and and and support, and and do that. Second one is, like we're going to try to keep having these events. We need you guys to really, you know, engage and you do and you show up. But, like, we're gonna even ask for it even more now, right, things are gonna start happening, like council events and things like that, where proposals need to get approved, like showing up in numbers.
Speaker 2:You don't have no idea how important that is. Yeah, for support from from a political standpoint, from an investment standpoint, from a leadership standpoint. It goes a long way, right, it does more that we show community engagement because we have the folks involved. We just got to provide you a better platform on our side and and opportunities at a greater rate, um, to be able to come and voice your opinions there. Um, you voiced a lot to us when we ask you, which is great. Like it's so much great data and feedback and that's how we've kind of tried to build our plans for the stadium based upon what we have heard from the community. Right, and so we want to keep doing that. We want to push that envelope even further.
Speaker 2:So those are really the asks that we have, kind of our of our, of our super passionate community. Who's just been awesome. And listen, we don't have a team yet, right. So, like, right, we're asking people to support something that's gonna happen in the future, right, right, and so I get it like it's not, like. It's not like we can go and say, hey, here's our starting 11 and then it's real. But what we do have, we do have some great youth opportunities, right, yeah, and they're playing. And, by the way, we're gonna have some great local sponsors on our on our on our youth shirts and gifts that are from really big local community leaders that want to be a part of what we're doing, right, and that's just an opportunity for us to kind of start to put our stamp there. And then that leads to what does the premier teams look like? Right, and those discussions are going great, by the way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, with those, with those sponsors I think it's a big shout too on. You know, one we hadn't mentioned on. It takes a village. It also takes corporate partners and villages there like investors yes, yep. Like thank you to every single one of our seed capital. Like yeah, and we'll talk about that in a second.
Speaker 1:But you know, we could not be where we are. I love the like they've never raised money. Comments like guys, we couldn't like we, we couldn't like it. For anybody that ever hears that I would not be employed if that was the case. Like you would not continue to see us operate if that was the case. Guys Like so just, it's okay, and we'll get into that.
Speaker 1:Um, you know, but I think that that's so important for people to hear is that, yes, you know we're, we're the ones that are in the weeds day to day and we're the ones that people see. But like this is northwest arkansas club, this is your club, this is not our club, and when we say we need you, we mean it and it is your team. And it takes a village. And only through that collective effort will we be successful. And so that's the only way that we've gotten to where we are now and it's the way that we're going to get to where we're going. So I think that that's a huge point to hit.
Speaker 1:So, thank you Moving into you know we had a great discussion with Warren. He like brought us under the tent after our he is, and a lot has happened in the last six months. Um, you know, with the updated scope for the project, I'll just blanket it with that. Right, there was a lot that happened, but just would love your thoughts about now that we can talk about it like what gets you excited about the new kind of improved version scope of of what we're trying?
Speaker 2:yeah, for first, I wish that we could have talked about it even sooner, but when you're going through this process, you just can't. There's yeah, there's so many variables and there's a lot of risk that you, you just have to keep um, your head down and and driving towards what we're trying to get to, which was this awesome piece of of multiple properties, right, yeah, I mean, we that's anybody who's ever bought a house and try to multiply that by by by. It was nine, I guess, and you're talking more than houses and a lot of these properties, right, and? And there was still a couple more that we were even negotiating with. Right, that we'll put off for the back burner, but, like it's, it just was was a process, I mean late last year, when we first said publicly like hey, we're gonna go and explore other options, right, like, we just want to be transparent. That's why we said that what we, what we realize is so many people are so passionate about it, like, well, what does that mean? What's gonna be next? You know, yeah, and so in our spirit to be transparency, we have caused some more confusion, but I think that's still the way we want to handle it. We want to be as transparent as we can, right, and we'll tell you about the ups and downs.
Speaker 2:And that was a period of where we had to kind of go down and retool and figure out what does this look like. So we went on a search again, right, right, we went to multiple locations, multiple cities, multiple, I mean we just like we did in the years back, yeah, right, and, but we knew we needed more space, we knew we needed better access, we knew we better, better, more convenience and more opportunity for development around it, like we knew all those things. If you look at any pro sports project that's happening now rhode island, a great example of brett johnson um, who warren and brett are have a great long relationship you know, like that's what they're doing there and this is what's happening in most markets. When you're you, you just need that um infrastructure to support stadium, right, it, just, it just goes together really well and then, when you're doing it together, you can help build infrastructure that supports the stadium, versus just having development that doesn't support the stadium, right, right, and so, um, that's the really cool part about it We've doubled the size of the land, obviously, um, and gives us um.
Speaker 2:I guess the most important part is that probably would have had to move out of that property at some point pretty soon, right, yeah, as as good as it was, like we were, like we're gonna make this work, right, that's that's. But when we had an opportunity to get better location and better long-term growth, that's what we had to go for. Yeah, I mean, that just took some time and it just is it does. But now we're at a whole nother level, right, and so now this um still led by soccer, led by stadium 100, doesn't happen without it, right, right, um, but what the development does? This helps broaden the investment. Um, right, folks, there's real estate development tied into pro sports, anchored facilities, multi-use facilities, especially that are going to have 60, 80, 100 nights a year of events. Right, that's really attractive.
Speaker 2:We did, and that helps us execute our project and our goal of bringing a profession in soccer here. So it goes together really well and it helps us achieve the objectives that the community wants us to achieve, which is bringing pro soccer here. So it goes together really well and it helps us achieve the objectives that the community wants us to achieve, which is bringing pro sports here, exactly. So we're really excited about that. I think one thing that's really important is you just elaborate. You mentioned our initial investors, right? I mean, we have local and non-local folks that have believed in this project from the beginning, still believe in it now.
Speaker 2:Um, when you start a project like this or any business, right, any startup, you have a startup plan, right, and there's capital that's needed to start that up. That's usually called seed money, pre-money, first money, whatever you want to call it. Different industries have different titles and the business doesn't grow without that, and so same with us, right, and so, to do what we've done, we've raised significant amounts, right, yeah, you know. And so we, you know, don't mention those individual names, uh, for piracy reasons, but you guys know who you are and, um, and, and we just we always tell you that and we communicate with this group often and keep them updated.
Speaker 2:We just got off of a call on one and they couldn't be more excited about what the future of this looks like in the new property, in the new vision Same stadium just now, with the support around it, and so really, really excited. But thank you guys for that, because we wouldn't be where we are. That allows us to put this project together, to go talk to the larger money, and that's that's. That's where the next year is spent for us.
Speaker 1:Yeah exactly, exactly. Well, we'll get to that, yeah, uh, as someone who because I want to keep building on this as someone who has lived here, for, I mean, you're getting close to 20 years in march, talking, aren't you?
Speaker 2:I'm just talking about that, yeah, 2006. I mean close, right, yeah. So end of next year, end of 26, is going to be almost 20 years in the market and I'll be 50 in 26. So this is like getting closer to it, close to half of your life in NWA, which is mind-blowing.
Speaker 1:But there's probably so many. I'm in the same boat, just not as not as, uh, decorated yet, but as somebody who has been here, though, like when you came, you came the day that the promenade mall opened up, yeah, I remember. So you've been here for a while to see this area grow crazy. How do you see this sports anchored mixed use entertainment district or whatever we want to call it uh, fitting into the community and where the region is going? Like, I think that there's a couple of different things that this helps, you know.
Speaker 1:Yes, you talked about enticing and diversifying the portfolio for investment. It also opens the pool to maybe investors that are really attracted by what a sports-anchored real estate development might do versus just the sports on its own and how those two interact together. All of a sudden, that opens up more interest and different things on that front. But from a community standpoint and where we're going and all of that talk about how that kind of fits into and what we've heard from city officials, right, like that's not just us saying that, you think about the economic development, the tourism dollars that come with this right, the just everyday opportunity for local folks to come and enjoy a place, a new place.
Speaker 1:Placemaking. Placemaking is a new terminology, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know we're not developers, we just pretend to be. Yeah, but these are the areas, and we work with great partners that are leading us and driving us from a. What is does the right development mix look like, based on community needs, based on all those things, and so we are really, really supportive of and thankful for those groups.
Speaker 1:And being very intentional in the way that we're approaching it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, very, very intentional and thoughtful in terms of what's the right mix, and we have a lot of feedback and input in that and a lot of it driven by data and like what's what's needed in the community, right, but you have a community that's growing so fast. You have a community that has so many transplants. Still, you have a community that, um, you know, is still underserved from entertainment, um, and and, and you still put all those things together and then and then there's still a lot of land and housing. We hear a little bit right, we live here and you hear a little bit from some folks that traffic's getting worse, it's all relative.
Speaker 1:It's all relative. It's all relative.
Speaker 2:Try going to New Jersey or wherever. It's. All relative Now. We love it here because we don't have to deal with all that stuff. All relative now. We love it here because we don't have to deal with all that stuff. And and the community, um, leaders are doing as good of jobs they can with infrastructure and support and building out, and you know it's it's it's hard to keep up when you ever grow like community. It just really is, yeah, like it doesn't, you know.
Speaker 2:And so, um, sometimes, new york times wrote that article, right, it said you know, we're next austin, and some people say I don't want the next Austin, right, and so, and hopefully, we have the right mix and the right players involved, and I think we do that we can do this the right way.
Speaker 2:Right, I still feel like we have enough people here that love our community. Yeah, that even the folks that are, you know, making some of the big decisions about our community, they really love our community, yeah, you know. And so I couldn't be more confident because we've had discussions with almost every one of these folks, from families to politics to council leaders and all of them right, this is again, our project is all encompassing, and so I couldn't be more bullish on the way they're thinking about it from, you know, the NWA council and Nelson Peacock and all these right. The way they're thinking about it is yeah, we want to grow, but we want to grow. They're smartly it's not a right word but, um, you know carefully, um, strategically, and and and do the things that our community wants us to do, and so, from all our feedback, this is something that community wants us to do, and fits right into things that we'll need, like going vertical with housing and building these districts 40, uh, 40 story buildings, but you know, but you talk about three, four, five, six.
Speaker 2:You know that's reasonable and we see that in pinnacle hills. Right.
Speaker 1:Right, you're just the way it is the expansion outward, flat horizontal can only go so far.
Speaker 2:That's right, um, and so you know we got a lake that will stop us in one direction, so can't go. Can't go east, very much right. We can't go west and north. And that's happening, yeah, in the cities that want to kind of build their downtowns or you know those type of centers main street type of things too they'll. Fayetteville did years ago right Exactly.
Speaker 1:Exactly, yeah, exactly. So I think that that all plays in really nice. I wanted people to hear that that it's not just us saying like, oh, we think this is great, no, like it is great, but we're also excited because of the feedback that we're getting from community leaders, planners you know you name it and fans as well. Right, like you know it's. So it's very exciting and we're super bullish on this now.
Speaker 2:We couldn't be more thankful to the Rogers community Planners mayor. I mean just unbelievable support and we couldn't, we would not be where we are without them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, a ton of just incredible input and advice along the way, as well as just great working relationship we have had.
Speaker 1:And this goes to I think we just talked about this, but like, maybe a little bit more on those types of discussions and you kind of hit this on the on the beginning too.
Speaker 1:We have talked with community leaders, city officials, investors, both current and potential fans, development partners, corporate partner discussions, local business leaders. The list goes on and on and on. I think you hit on it on like give people a sense for these conversations. And maybe one of the things you hit on it on like give people a sense for these conversations and you know, maybe you know one of the things that we talk about is that we're still a, um, not necessarily infant, but certainly adolescent, maturing soccer community, both from a fan and a kind of leadership corporate, whatever standpoint, um, we'll talk to people that have never kicked the ball in their life, never watched a game in their life, and we get a great reaction. And we've talked to people that are, you know, ultra fans and everybody in between. So talk a little I mean, keep expanding a little bit on those conversations, if you will, and how they kind of go and what we talk about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think, um, I think the the important part about our conversations is um less even about soccer. Yes, oftentimes it goes there just because it's kind of fun and cool to talk about and we ended up thought how do you get players and teams? And we're like that's like step 48 of where we need to get to. It's actually not the hardest part of the project. There's a lot of players that are available. We have contacts that are ready. Our inboxes are flooded with coaches, players, agents that are reaching out. We're like hold on, we're not there yet. So we actually don't have a lot of um concern over that part at all. Actually, yeah, but that's usually where a lot of our discussions start from a soccer symbol. How do you do this? Everyone wants to know. But what we realize because of those questions is that that's pro sports is a newer kind of concept to the region, to the state. Right, think about it. Right, so we have minor league baseball, which is very different because it's directly affiliated to the mothership. Right, funded wise, you know that stadium was built. Even player strategy anyway, right, it's a different strategy than we had. Uh, we have and, um, yeah, players could disappear on a friday because they got called up and then your favorite player is gone and so it serves its purpose of what it's supposed to be like to admire league baseball. It's just different. It's not good or bad's just different.
Speaker 2:Ours is our players are going to live here. They're going to be in this community, they're going to be part of this community. They'll do clinics with your kids and be literally livid right Now. It doesn't mean they're always going to be here. They're free agents, potentially after a year or two, whatever their contract runs out, but disappear in the middle of july, right, right, and go play somewhere else, right, um, they're they're. They're really going to be great in the community.
Speaker 2:And then we think what happens is, as people discover, just like we all did, northwest arkansas, they're going to go. Huh, you know what? It's not a bad place to live. My dollar might go a little further and play in the metropolitan market. I might not have all of the things of a metro market, but every month, as we know, there's more and more and more right and and it's like. It's a nice community, it's growing. People are super friendly and engaging and the fans are now behind. We think there's a lot of reasons that once players get here, they're going to want to stay and be part of it. So we talk about that with a lot of people just to educate them. And then we talk about, especially from the larger investor standpoint. We talk about sports as an asset class right standpoint. We talk about um sports as an asset class right, which is different.
Speaker 3:This is different, and I say different, um, it's very steady in terms of growth, reliable, very safe but generally like it's larger wealth.
Speaker 2:you know individuals, families, you know that have been benefiting from the growth of pro sports, and why is? Because they see a steady return on their valuations. Right To be clear on that, it doesn't mean that pro sports teams are cash flow machines. No, most of them are not. You flash Even in the majors, majors.
Speaker 2:Now, when you have massive media money, that helps a lot, right, you have Apple contracts and mega million dollar deals with premier league, like, yeah, listen, they're gonna, they're gonna be able to turn a profit. However, if they choose to take someone and go buy the best player in the world or spend that money like that's, that's their decision in their pnl, and there goes that profit back to break it even, maybe, or not even break it even, right, yeah, it's not that uncommon. Barcelona, what are they? They had years where they were losing cash. Think about that, oh yeah like not to go down.
Speaker 1:Not to go down a crazy rabbit hole. Super soccer fan, yeah, but there's financial fair play rules in place to prevent these mega clubs all over the world just from just spending buku cash beyond the business's means and operating at hundreds of millions of dollars of losses. So they had to tell them to stop. That's how unprofitable they were.
Speaker 2:It's crazy, because there's so much passion to win and support these clubs worldwide that it's like you've got to spend and get that player. So why do we say that? Why did Chris just tell us that they're not going to make cashflow? Doesn't he want to get investors and all? Yeah? The beautiful part about sports if you can get close to break even, you're at a great place. And that's why we set the model up the way we did with having a stadium, having an infrastructure around the stadium that supports the stadium on game days. That's really important because the valuation growth of pro sports is about the franchise growth. Right, jerry Jones acquired the Cowboys.
Speaker 2:I don't know what the number was. It was something really big. You know, 35 years ago People laughed at him, said what are you nuts? He spent 300 million. I mean, yeah, it was a few hundred and now it's 9 billion, I think in the latest valuation.
Speaker 2:Right, you know, an MLS club, the next one's probably going to go for closer to a billion somewhere in that range. Three quarters. They go in for 500. Like this is now becoming, you know, mega, mega wealth, wealth that can be. And why do they do that? Because there's a pretty consistent return on valuation. It's also a whole bunch of other benefits tax and depreciation, all those things right. So we've found ourselves kind of educating on that as well, a lot, right, even all scales of investor levels right, just to provide feedback and input on what that is.
Speaker 2:Now it's an investment. We never sit here and tell anybody that we're guaranteeing anything, right, everybody knows that what we can do is show track record and show proof and show trends, right, and so those are all very positive, right as consistent, more consistent than the stock market, right. Just because you don't necessarily have this, even during ups and down times in the economic and macroeconomic issues generally, pro sports valuations creep up right, depends on the league. Sometimes it's single digits, sometimes it's 10, sometimes 15% right. Our sport is still growing and newer, we're in the 10 plus range, generally speaking, right, annually kind of evaluations.
Speaker 2:So I think it's important to kind of give that context. This is some of the inner talkings that we have with folks, and again it's just a little different. A lot of investment in Northwest Arkansas has been about land, about real estate and about development, right, and that's been a really good investment and it will continue to probably be a really good investment in our region, right, and so why not partner these two things together? Right? So it's still one umbrella. You're still the investment, and we'll talk about a lean investor in a second. But when you bring a lean investor on, it's one entity over everything, so that there's consistency and strategy between development and the stadium.
Speaker 2:You don't have competing interests. You can't do that. That's a really challenging environment if you have a development and a stadium group and then they're not serving each other. So we're targeting an approach where we're kind of aligned.
Speaker 1:Yeah that's got to work together. No, so that's phenomenal, fantastic, thank you. And uh, we obviously can't, you know, we, we, we can't, out of respect for privacy, we can't share names, confidential stuff. But we've talked to a lot of people I'll just leave it at that, right and we've raised those, those c capital funds. Uh, as you kind of discussed, talk a little bit more about, like, what does it mean to be a lead investor or a primary or principal or whatever that means? And you have to have that. Per us soccer rules, right, and the league which obviously operates underneath us soccer their rules as well.
Speaker 2:So the US soccer mandates that you have a lead primary investor. They call it right. So it's X percent of the investment into a franchise.
Speaker 1:And it's less than half.
Speaker 2:Won't share percentages, but why that's really important is that years ago we have launched, before soccer was ready to really grow in the States, leagues like the NASL when Pele came and the stars of the world came, had no infrastructure, no foundation. They had owners that could maybe afford to just get a team and support it for a year, because, remember, you're trying to build this thing to cash flow and get to break even, and that takes several years to do so. If that investor came in, let's say in 1975, in a team and put a million dollars, but then they needed another million dollars, did that investor have that ability to do that? And that's where things fold right. And so the NSL had this massive spike and then poof, it was gone. I can't remember what it's called, but if you're interested it's pretty cool. Cos, gotten this great doc on it. I can't remember what it's called, but if you're interested it's pretty cool. Um cosmo is leading that way right. And so, as they built the mls, the smart thing they did was it was really um one. They had some really committed groups of investors in the beginning.
Speaker 2:They talk about people that got almost laughed at at the beginning because they couldn't turn a profit for years, for years. I think it was probably again, we don't know. You know in a working, so we're all till we talk about speculation. What we hear and what we know just from being in industry is you know the, the beckham effect in the mid 2000s or right, right and the 22 the 2002 world cup was also a big one at bruce arena just talked about that actually how that world cup really buoyed mls growth, and then beckham, and now you see Messi, kind of right and so, and when we say MLS growth, that's just US soccer growth as well. Right, that was, that was what the model was back then. And obviously USL has taken a whole new, a whole new growth and had to be a cell, and that's as well.
Speaker 2:Right, so those things don't exist 15, 20 years ago. Right, because because for those first 10, 15 years you have ownership groups that disbelieved so passionately what they were doing that they were literally bleeding cash, that were in the red, they couldn't get to green. But now those valuations of those franchises that they bought at making it up $20 million, whatever those initial MLS franchises were, I mean, they were nothing by standards. Nowadays they're worth hundreds, and I think Inter miami is close to a billion now, like it is there's ones over. So again, it just speaks to if you have a willingness to be patient in pro sports, aligned with an area that's growing, aligned with a group that has a good passion and understanding of how to do this, you have a really good opportunity for long-term valuation growth. Right, that's, that's the play.
Speaker 1:Never without risk, we always say that, oh yeah, of course I mean, any investment isn't so that leads to where we are now.
Speaker 2:So we have now partnered with a really really exciting group. So we had a group called Prospect Park reach out to us through. Again, the soccer community is unbelievable and helps each other. We had a partner, kevin Willer let's say his name. He was a Chicago guy, been involved in a lot of soccer teams, a lot of soccer franchises. We had some connection to Northwest Arkansas and we got in touch. And then turns out Warren and him had crossed paths several times and so we started talking and had some really great points of feedback from him. One of them at at the end of our conversation was like you should reach out to this or this other group is actually interested in kind of talking to you guys. They're really interested in USL and they have some investment ideas, right? I said, yeah, sure, we're open to talk to anybody. And that was Prospect Park.
Speaker 2:We didn't know anything about them at the time and this was several months. So we've been filling each other out for several months and exploring them, exploring the project and us. We lost learning about them and how they work. And they have an immense background in family offices, right, they relationships with family offices nationally. Um, so this is this search is for for a primary is is really going to be local and regional, national, right and um, and they have have been just tremendous partners with us, helping us in terms of kind of how we can set this up, and then they have a massive network, right, this is what they do, so we can go and keep building our project and support them. But they're the ones that know how to execute this and have the relationships and know how to communicate with other family offices, right, this is a really important part for us and so we just started that, like, literally, you're about to announce it and so, hot off the press.
Speaker 2:Hopefully this, you know podcast won't precede anything. It will not. Wes will make sure, um. But you know, that's really exciting for us because they, as a group um, have worked in pro sports already. They've worked particularly at USL as well, and they really like our project and that's important because they're going to spend time on it. So if they didn't think that there was a pathway to success here, they probably wouldn't be on our list to work with and be great partners for us. So we could be more excited about that and that's their objective is to find that primary and that's you know, let's call it a year from this time window. That's kind of you know where we think we can get to, and that usually then just snowballs right. So we've had several folks that we know, that you know, really interested in being part of this, just maybe not wanting to be a primary Right, and so that's really important Come back and talk to me.
Speaker 2:This is not a one person, one family. It just doesn't usually work that way. In almost any pro sports Right, it's usually the structures and percentages that get broken out behind a primary, right. So we have a pretty good feeling and a pretty good opportunity to engage. Some of those other folks re-engage, that said, they want to be part of that, but we got to get that primary to kind of put it over there.
Speaker 2:Once that primary comes on board, they go through a long and extensive process with the USL. It's background checks, it's access to liquid capital, understanding net worth. There's really strong criteria. They're very strict about it because they don't want to have these ups and downs. Right, they need someone who's reliable and can come through and manage something like COVID Can you sustain no fans for a year and you can be able to support that and get through to next year. And that's something that's important, right. And so, anyway, we're really excited about that next phase. It allows us to really focus on building what we need to do and just supporting them and their search, and then we'll engage once they kind of say, hey, here's the groups that are really interested and that we're going to get back to them. So that's how that process will work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, really, really excited about this partnership and these guys and this team. They've been absolutely fantastic and I think again another. I get reassurances all the time but seeing that, like this group is what they do, they put deals together in this space all day long for their you know clients and and and relations and they have been just chomping at the bit like so excited about what this project could be and represents for the region and for their interested investors.
Speaker 2:And much more interested in our newer scenario new land, new development, mixed in multi-use facility versus where we were in the old program.
Speaker 1:Yes, much more so. So that's again going back to the importance of that shift in scope. But last question, because I know we do have to jump here but what keeps you so optimistic about us going forward?
Speaker 2:One, you and Warren. Well, thank you, yeah, I mean, there's again, you go through any project like this. Anybody who's built anything small or big, right, and ours is big in public, right. So there, there is. There's, you know, visible ups and downs that that people are aware of. Sometimes you're just, you know, launching a product or doing an entrepreneur. People don't really see underneath, like here it's, you know, we're, we're and we're pretty open about it, right, yeah, um, and so having you guys just kind of be consistently like this is what the community said, this is what the community wanted. Whenever we hit those moments, we go back to some of those lines and the feedback and the listening sessions and seeing the kids play, and all those are just like, man, this is what we can do. And then you think about what we can become, right.
Speaker 2:So Oklahoma City just announced they're going to host a base camp for a World Cup. Yes, like, how sad, right? So they're not big enough, or not? They don't have the infrastructure yet to like, host the World Cup. That's like Dallas and New York and Kansas City is probably one of the smaller markets. That's how it's going to be For sure, right? But, by the way, those are two great markets for our local fans to be ready. Tickets will probably come on sale end of this year. Go to fifa, sign up, get your name in there so that you get notifications. It's a raffle, so submit for as many tickets as you can. That's my advice, having done it before. So none that I want to create competition for myself, because I'll be submitting too. I want as many north kansas arkansas fans to to to get that, and so it's um. It's just really cool that that, um, that vision of what we can become is so cool. So, okay, we can't do it for 26 because obviously we're not going to be ready yet.
Speaker 1:But 2031, we have the Women's World Cup.
Speaker 2:So, again, we're probably not at that stage as a community population size, infrastructure size to host World Cup games. Yet those are mega stadiums still, but could we be a base base camp, like no brainer? Right, then you have a facility. Right side project to this is one that we need place to practice, right, and maybe that's more of a complex. And so there's things that we want to do above and beyond what we're doing, that the community wants us to be a part of, right, it wants us to lead, and so there's, um, that could be those that are cool things.
Speaker 2:When you just think about and they think about, you know, the first game, oh yeah, what is that going to feel like? And then you get, you know men's and women's going, and and the opportunity then that gives to youngsters to see, you know, both of the boys and girls side, looking up to a team wearing the same colors, same crest, as you know, like that gives me kind of goosebumps and chills and motivation to keep going forward. But and then, lastly, it's, it's just the continued support. No, we're still here, you know, I think we would.
Speaker 2:There's listen, there's 35 different reasons that at some point over the last several years, we probably could have said, ah, you know, you know this might be too hard, right, like this is, but we always keep finding another reason to keep this project up there, because there's so many people that are so excited about it. Right, and so, again, just to reiterate, we're gonna try to get out as much as we can. We want you guys to help us and support us. Show up, wear our stuff, be vocal. This is what it takes. Political leaders and town leaders need to see that more and more and more. The more you see that more support, more things happen easier. We already have great support. We want to keep pushing that, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Chris, a heck of a time chatting with you, man. Thank you. That's going to do it for this episode of Pitch the Pro. We hope you enjoyed it. Be sure to catch all of our episodes on pitchtheprocom, or look for Pitch the Pro on YouTube, spotify, apple or wherever you get your podcasts. For more content Until next time. Cheers, northwest Arkansas.
Speaker 3:Thanks for joining us on this episode of the Pitch the Pro podcast. Be sure to tune in again in two weeks for the next installment and check out the Stoppage Time series for a recap of today's episode. Be sure to find us at Pitch to Pro on YouTube, instagram and everywhere you get your podcasts. No-transcript.