Ep. 54 - Teaching the Business Behind the Ball

Want a front-row look at how sports careers actually start, and how a young club becomes a community heartbeat? Wes sits down with Professor Craig Schmitt of the University of Arkansas to connect the dots between classrooms, street teams, stadium design, and the human moments that make match days unforgettable. Craig’s path runs from youth hoops and nonprofit programs to graduate study and a faculty role where he “coaches” students into the recreation and sports industry. His central insight is deceptively simple: experience matters, but storytelling wins. If you can name the skills, show the outcomes, and explain the growth, you’ll move faster than titles alone ever will.

We dig into U of A’s layered approach, undergrad exploration across facilities, finance, marketing, revenue, and law; a master’s cohort embedded in college athletics; and PhD training rooted in rigorous research and teaching. Craig opens up the playbook on networking trips to franchises, venues, agencies, and pushing students beyond marquee brands to the wider world of sport tourism, outdoor recreation, and event operations. Then we zoom in on Ozark United FC: a regional identity that sidesteps the Razorback shadow and grassroots tactics that turn awareness into belonging across Fayetteville, Rogers, and beyond.

From there, the conversation becomes about experience design and fan psychology. Smaller, smarter venues. Proximity you can feel. Concourses that keep you in view of the pitch. Tech that extends identity beyond match day, paired with a warning about over-automation: when parking, tickets, and concessions go touchless, we risk losing the human spark that sells the second beer and creates a story worth retelling. Craig’s prediction is bold and timely: clubs that restore human touch points without sacrificing convenience will win loyalty. If you care about sports business, fan experience, or the future of soccer in Northwest Arkansas, this one hits the sweet spot.

If you enjoyed this conversation, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a quick review to help more fans and future pros find us.

Transcript

Show Intro And Purpose

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Pitch to Pro is the official podcast of Ozark United FC. This will be our platform to tell our story about the club and the special place that we call home Northwest Arkansas. This is a journey. We want to bring you along for the ride. We'll share what's going on behind the curtain, help educate the community at large about soccer, our league, and give updates on the progress of the club along the way. Together we'll explore and unpack our journey to professional soccer, the magic that is NWA, our community, and talk all things soccer from on the pitch to behind the scenes. Telling the story of our club. Pitch to Pro Podcast is proudly sponsored by Podcastvideos.com. Podcastvideos.com is Northwest Arkansas's premier podcast recording studio. Equipped with industry-leading equipment, the recording studio and services save you time, money, and hassle. They are dedicated to helping you create, record, and publish high-quality podcasts for your audience. Be sure to check them out today at podcastvideos.com. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Pitch It Pro Podcast. I'm your host, Wes Harris, Managing Director of Ozark United FC, Northwest Arkansas's Pro Soccer Club, playing in the United Soccer League. Today, guys, I'm really pleased to welcome to the show Prof. Craig Schmidt from the University of Arkansas. Professor Schmidt has been at the U of A for about five and a half years, molds the young minds in the recreation and sports management program, which I'll let him talk about here in just a quick minute. But before the U of A, and I'm gonna get into a little Jim Carrey here, Professor Schmidt was Director of Engaged Learning and Outreach at the University of Florida, assistant professor of sport and event management at Elon University, Project Coordinator of Business of Sport Certificate Program at the University of Colorado Boulder, graduate teaching assistant at the University of Northern Colorado, and held a couple roles with the YMCA. Bachelor's degree in economics from the University of Florida, MBA from UDCF with a specialization in sports management, PhD in philosophy from the University of Northern Colorado. That's a lot. Did I skip anything? No. Professor Schmidt, welcome, man, and thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate you having me for sure. So uh certainly a wealth of experience there, uh, lots of degrees to know what the heck you're talking about here. So I'm excited to get into it with you, man. So, but before we get into all that and like what you do every day, uh to just tell people a little bit about you. What's your background? Did you play any sports growing up? Uh you know, all that fun stuff.

From Grad School To Nonprofit Sport

Choosing Academia And Coaching Students

SPEAKER_00 2:41

Yeah, uh, I've lived a bit of a nomadic life as uh as an adult. And I think that's part of uh a product of my upbringing through a military brat, right? Father's in the Navy, so you move every few years, you really get used to and thrive on this idea of change, right? Like exploring new places, new people, new culture. And and so that so it sort of carried on. Um, hopefully we have found our roots here in Northwest Arkansas. We like it here. But I really love uh that about our industry. I think that's what's has driven me into sport, is just this idea that it plays such a different role in different communities. I've seen that firsthand as a kid, as a young adult. And then now as a not so young adult. So played a lot of sports. I've always considered myself a jack of all trades, master of none, which was great as a young kid. Then as you get into sort of more competitive sports, um, that uh began to hurt me a little bit. Um my soccer career ended uh around the middle school junior high area. I I was a I was an exceptional recreation soccer player and then uh made the jump to travel and realized very quickly that I was not an exceptional travel soccer player and um played a lot of soccer in Florida and then really um basketball was my sport. Yeah. Played uh high school basketball um in pencil colour and the panhandle, and was again not uh a player that had a ton of skill and realizing that pretty quickly figured out a way to get on the court was to be um aggressive, uh, and it was to be a defender. And so that was sort of my role in the team is how could I be a defensive stopper? How could I pick a player really two through five on their team and do everything I could to get in their head and stop them from doing what they wanted to do? And so got to college, got to the University of Florida, um, was really good at school, uh, was really good at math. And so people thought I should be an engineer. Uh that lasted about a semester until I took a course that was challenging. I had never really done anything in school that that really challenged me before. And so rather than really adapt that growth mindset, um, I pivoted pretty quickly and tried to find the easiest path uh through school. Um, had a great experience, had a great experience being a gator. Um, uh had a great experience, you know, engaging with people uh from all over the place. Um and school, you know, I did well in it, but got to my senior year, realized that um while I was an exceptional student, I was really unprepared for life. And that hit me pretty hard. And that's a lesson that stuck with me to this day is you know, how do we make sure that uh in an undergraduate and graduate school environment, we don't just focus on the academic metrics, but like how are we making sure these kids are really prepared? I'm sorry, young professionals are really prepared for the next phase in their life. And so really fell into grad school. Um, didn't know what I wanted to do, didn't I have to get a job. I never had an internship, right? Here, here I am, basically a perfect GPA from a great school, um, and really just didn't feel like I had the tools to do what I wanted to do. And so fell into a master's program, had a friend who was studying sport management. I'm like, man, I like sport. That sounds super cool. Ended up down at UCF, had some great mentorship down there, great experiences, did a little work with the Orlando Magic and the Tampe Buccaneers, and really fell backwards into this idea of I love sport. I love what sport does to a community. And uh a mentor of mine uh said, you know, I I was doing some coaching in inner city Orlando, doing some basketball coaching, some basketball programming. And he's like, you know, I know you have a passion for that. You have a lot of success in a lot of different areas, a lot of different paths you want to pursue. But this is something when you come into my office, you were fired up to talk about. Like, you can't wait to tell me the story of this kid and what he did and what the team did. And so he said, Um, there's so there's opportunities here. Let's let's talk about that. And he really led me to explore careers and sort of that grassroots nonprofit space um and really led me into that first career, which was operating wise. I love that work. I love the again, the power of sport to create community, to bring people together. Used to always say with my leagues, it wasn't about um what happened on the field, it was happening on the sidelines. You know, if the the parents of the kids on my teams were now, you know, hanging out at barbecues and opening the doors and and visiting each other and creating that that community, that community that they really feel. I felt like we were really successful in what we were trying to do. And so got to a point where we were working, working hard, that nonprofit space. You know, it's it's it's tireless. Yeah. And um really wanted to think about how to expand my impact, right? And really take some lessons that I had learned um as a student, um, how to potentially, I guess, better prepare people for, you know, careers in this space called a good old mentor. And he said it's time. He said, let's let's let's talk about that next degree and quit the job in Charleston, South Carolina, operating that why, and took a chance to pursue the PhD in in Colorado. And the rest has been a journey in academe, trying to figure out again, you know, where can we um focus to in the short amount of time we know these students in in ways that gives them the experiences, the opportunities to figure out where they want to go and then get them started on that journey. Um and and so that's where people like you have been a tremendous resource. We lean heavily into how do we make sure that we are staying engaged in touch with the industry to make sure that they're helping us um prepare these students, right? I see myself as a coach. I've always been coach Greg. And so how do I make sure I'm paying attention to industry and then interpret it in a way that my students can begin to understand, break down some of the barriers to get them to engage, explore, get them going, and then honestly sit back and watch them succeed because we've got bright kids, bright young professionals. I've been fortunate to be at a couple of institutions with really, I mean, I think young people are are hungry, they're bright, they're passionate. Um, I think they are victims of a lot of generalizations that young people get. Um, but I think with a little bit of nudge, a little bit of guidance, a little bit of help set in that path, they do really some really cool things. So again, been fortunate to be at several institutions who sort of come out preparing students for this industry in slightly different ways. But um ultimately it's always about, you know, how do we take these students coming in with very little awareness of what our industry is, try to expand that awareness a bit, try to get them to dabble a bit, to engage a bit, a bit, to have conversations, and then you know, how do we get launched?

What A PhD Really Trains You For

SPEAKER_02 8:41

Yeah. Uh it's a great uh story and background, and it kind of gets me into you you ticked off. How did you find it uh your way into teaching? And it's a knack for coaching, now you're just coaching in a different, absolutely, in a different, you know, arena. Um, haha. Uh pun intended. Um but the one thing that I did want to talk about about your your background um that I found interesting, and I took a few, I had to take three courses as well in this uh deal, but your PhD is in philosophy. Yeah, sure. Talk to us about that and how you found your way to that as a focus of of study um for your doctorate, and then also uh maybe a why. But then I I think what would be really cool is how do you feel like you use that in your day-to-day uh and you know life?

Pivots, Passion, And Career Trajectories

SPEAKER_00 9:39

Yeah, well, unfortunately, there's gonna be a much less interesting response that you're looking for. Um, but a PhD is always simply a philosoph a doctor in philosophy, EDD, a doctor in education. And so the PhD is really a research-driven degree, right? You learn to be a scientifically rigorous researcher, and ultimately you graduate, you earn that PhD by demonstrating independence as a researcher. Can you ask, ask a question, develop the methodology, you know, in which to respond to that question, analyze that data, and ultimately draw conclusions from that. And so my PhD is actually, which is again silly in sort of the structure of academe, but it's actually an exercise sports, sport and exercise science, I believe was usually called, with a concentration and sport admin. So Northern Colorado's done a really nice job of of um developing a cohort model over the years of people again who want to be in the academic space in the sport industry. Now, uh it's goofy, in my opinion, because the the way that um so a PhD is really designed to teach you how to be uh a scientifically rigorous or uh scientifically rigorous researcher to advance the awareness, the body of knowledge, uh of what we know from an academic perspective, of what's happening within all aspects and and elements of the industry. And then a lot of people that come out with that PhD end up teaching, right? And so zero part zero part of my effort right now is put forth towards research. And I am a teacher through and through. And so, and I'm not uh unique in that, right? A lot of people end up getting that PhD and then ultimately teaching. Um, but the idea is how do we ensure that we're taking what's happening from the academic space? This again, um, really intentional effort to expand what we know. How do we take what's happening in industry and provide some opportunities to find those connections? The academic world isn't always fantastic at communicate with communicate with industry, and industry honestly has their own pressures uh to honestly drive revenue, right? Get things done that doesn't always allow them the time uh to then engage with with academia. And so there are some great examples in our discipline of that happening. And I I I sort of see that as our role too in the classroom is how do we make sure that we're staying in tune with both and again figuring out ways to sort of engage with students. So unfortunately, I'm not um uh a philosopher. You're not gonna wax poetic, then you've never waxed poetic um in any avenue of my life. But uh it really to me was a means to an end. I never had a desire to be this research powerhouse. I really always wanted to be around students, to connect with students. My first job, first full-time faculty position at Elon was a tenure track job. So it was a research job. I was charged with doing research, and very quickly in that role, I found that my passions were with the students, right, in the classroom and the out and outside the classroom. And I worked with some incredible people there and really found myself focusing here, which is a conversation we have with our students a lot, right? As you explore career paths, you're gonna take on a job you're super psyched about, super excited about, and realize that what they're paying you for isn't what you love, but you start doing this on the side, you're like, that's what I love. And so we talk a lot about um my philosophy of um of sort of embracing the Hakim Alajwan in all of us, right? Is his signature was the dream shake, right? A ton of pivots. You don't go through Shaq, you go around Shaq. And so talking to my students about this idea of as you pursue goals in life, recognize that pivots are a part of it, right? Pivots are typically the not necessarily the easiest way to get there, but the the what's going to allow you to again, uh, I don't know, pursue careers that are uh intrinsically satisfying, that that that are motivating, that that allow you to sort of figure out what those passions are. So you are a philosopher. Look at that. No. I get off on tangents and I start to ramble, which my students love. They actually take it as the challenge most class periods to see if they can get me off topic and see how long I'll go off topic before I get back to content.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

That's uh I forget the I think it's dodgeball, Ben Stillip. Now he's a philosopher. Uh but I mean, you bring up a really good point, and I mean I'm I am a classic example of uh mid-career complete pivot. Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. Yeah, I spent 15 years in a completely separate industry uh and was on a really good track and doing a lot of good things and made a lot of great uh friendships and mentorships and all of those things and learned a ton and fell into fell into this. And I I had wanted to try to make that pivot probably oh, 10 years sooner than I did. Absolutely. Uh, and was working hard to try to do that, and then kind of threw up the white flag a little bit and was like, all right, this is what it's gonna be. I'm gonna focus. I'm gonna f my family's more important and where we're at, this is what I need to be. And never in a million years did I think that I'd be able to do what I wanted to do uh pro soccer in Northwest Arkansas.

Storytelling Beats Experience Alone

SPEAKER_00 14:31

We talked about that, right? This idea that there's always, you know, you know, you put a plan together, you could talk about I uh ideally, here are the things that make sense in a decision, but then life, you know, you got variables that that that impact that decision. Um but yeah, when we talk, as I work with my students again, a lot of them, you know, imagine themselves as, you know, they want to be uh Drew Rose in the house, they want to be air check, they that's what they want to be. They're in this degree because they want to be that. And I said, that's fine and great, but that's that's like the culmination of a career, right? And so you are gonna pivot 85 times before you get there. And so, you know, my focus on them is always let's not, let's not think too far ahead. Let's not carve, you know, five year, 10 year, 15 year plans again. You're gonna pivot a ton in your first couple of jobs in whatever industry segment you pursue are gonna be relatively quick, right? High turnover, early career jobs, you're gonna, you're gonna learn skills at a rapid pace, right? You're gonna be more valuable to somebody else in your heart or your own organization very quickly. And so a lot of people end up hopping a few times pretty early. And and so let's not focus on five years from now. Let's not focus on 10 years, let's focus on next. That's the only thing that I know right now I can get you to be competitive for any role that you're gonna pursue next. I can't help you be competitive with what you're gonna do in five years because I have no idea what you're gonna do in five years. And so I really try to get them to focus on that next step. How do we make sure that we can walk the walk, talk the talk, we build some uh intentional relationships in that space. Um, I don't speak so much on this idea of getting experiences because I feel like our students have great experiences. What they really struggle in, most young people struggle in, in my opinion, is not the experience itself or getting the experience, it's telling the story of that experience. It's being able to identify and articulate here are the skills that I bring. Let me give you some great examples that I was able to see how they impacted the outcome or added value to an organization. Or let me give you an example of how here's something I've struggled with, and it negatively impacted what I tried to do in this internship, and I saw it happen, thus, here's what I'm doing to make it better, right? So it's it's it's being able to reflect and storytelling, um, but then again, creating awareness of potential entry points, right? Um, we, you know, one of my classes that I really enjoy teaching is our sort of intro class that you've been an incredible guest uh in over the years. And I always tell the students you can only pursue what you know. And so it's a pretty thin piece of pie there as far as what they know that that's possible for them. And my goal in that class is not to introduce every possible path you could pursue, because again, that I don't have time for that. You could you could do five degrees and not get there. But how do I broaden it a little bit, right? How do I make sure I broaden the awareness with the understand that once they get in, that awareness is going to broaden that much more?

SPEAKER_02 17:09

Yeah. No, and that's that's very, very true. And I would say that that is uh pretty spot on in terms of I think experience is there, or again, I think they're victims of certain generalizations on what others that have been around for 15, 20 years may not consider good experience, but are absolutely good experiences. Absolutely. And there's transferable skill sets 100%. Um, it's the the art and the skill set is being able to uh sell yourself. It's selling is storytelling. Yeah. Um, and you are a salesman on yourself, even if you're going for a scientific research position and you have no business being in a sales world, like you're still selling.

U of A Programs And Pathways

SPEAKER_00 17:55

It breaks my heart every time I see a student as I talk to them about you know what parts of their experience they're highlighting as they prepare for an interview and they take off. Well, I was a bartender, I was a waitress. Oh, I I yeah, I played sport, like I'm a student athlete. I'm like, whoa, those are those are those are incredible skills. And if you were a waiter, a waitress or a bartender, man, I know things that you did. I know you navigated stress, I know you navigated a range of consumers, right? Some that love you and some that did not love you, right? You you had all these experiences that translate really nicely into a lot of entry-level roles in our industry, which is consumer facing, right? It's it's understanding people and and being um, I don't know, uh uh socially engaging. I I joked that um in our major, you know, a lot of majors on campus, you know, the kids that are really excellent on the classroom are the ones that are finding those great opportunities. And, you know, it's not unusual for students in our class to be okay students, right? But they're spending time developing some of those intangible skills, those social skills, you know, in on their own time. But those come in handy as you enter in our industry because it's absolutely content awareness of the industry. But then can you engage? Can you talk? Right. Yeah, but to your point, build relationships with is immense. And the people that can do that effectively early are the ones that steepen that trajectory, the career. And I despite, you know, the the the the negative tone in which you know the world is talking about job marketing for early career professionals right now, um, I'm still not worried about my students. I they'll all find entry points. I tell them all the time, my goal is not to get you necessarily into your first job because you're gonna find it. My goal is to steepen your trajectory. How do we get you in that second and third job more quickly than what we do now is gonna allow you to do that.

SPEAKER_02 19:37

No, it's spot on. So tell us, I mean, and that's a great approach as well. And I'm glad to, you know, hear that similar philosophy. Uh it just keeps coming back, man. Um, but tell us so you know, we've talked a little bit about your focus on on kind of how you approach kind of your role. Tell us a little bit more about the programming. With the U of A that you're kind of a part of and your students are a part of. Sure.

Field Trips, Networks, And Local Industry

SPEAKER_00 20:04

We've got um several different uh, I guess, programs that attack different segments of our industry. Our undergrad program is uh recreation support management. Um, and it's really focused on an exploration of potential paths within sort of both those industry segments, depending on how you define it. And so with that that that degree program, we really try to focus on some early career professional development, some early career industry exploration. And then as they get into their upper level class, let's talk about content areas that are relevant regardless of what path they pursue. You know, flashing back to me, you know, I thought I want to work at Pro Sport, working with the Magic, working with the Bucks, ended up with, you know, um rec centers in Orlando, then ultimately the YMCA. But what was common across all of that is facilities, it's finance, it's marketing, it's revenue generation, right? It's legal aspects. And so really focusing on content areas that are applicable across really a number of different paths they could pursue. And at the senior level, really focusing on um a class that allows us to sort of dive into, you know, uh current happenings, sort of a seminar issues type class. Yeah. And then a class to really launch them out. So like uh almost like a transitions class, a professional development class that gets them to think about what they've done and to frame in a story in a way that's going to be relevant to, again, a couple of paths they could be pursuing and really get them prepared for that next step. That's the undergrad program. They do experiential stuff, right? Practicums, internships, that kind of thing. Um at the master's level, uh, it's called the same. It's a master of education, right, and sport, but it's really focused on college athletics. Um, we are heavily, uh our student population is heavily involved with athletics. The vast majority are uh graduate assistants with the razorbacks, either in uh sort of a team ops type role or in an admin role across multiple departments. And so they're a ton of fun to work with because they're all sort of working and aimed in the same direction. Undergrad classes, you know, you've been a part of that. Yeah. How I introduced them to you is I got 75 students and they're going 75 different directions. The graduate level, they're all really focused on this specific industry segment. Not all, but the vast majority. And so it's a lot of fun for them to take what they're doing in athletics 20 hours a week, 20 plus hours a week, right, and bring it to the classroom from the academic perspective, from the compliance perspective, from the event perspective, from the marketing perspective, from the football os perspective, and come in this room and sort of have this conversation about um things that are happening in college sport. And if if you don't know, there are some things happening in college sports. Well, there's there's a lot. Uh and then we have a PhD program, and that's really again designed to put people in positions where they're gonna be competitive for faculty roles, either in primarily in a research type uh function, um, but also in a teaching role. And then we've got a couple other programs that uh focus more on sort of that outdoor rec space. Obviously, we're in the natural state. Um, outdoor recreation is a major driver of the economy here in Arkansas. And so we've got a really amazing um uh undergraduate minor focused on um how do we make sure that we're taking students from all across campus, introducing them to the industry of outdoor rec, giving them some basic skills, certifications, getting them, you know, positioned to launch in the opportunities there. Um and we're exploring again and potentially gonna launch pretty soon another graduate program that's in the online space focused on that sort of record sport tourism. Um, I think that we lean heavily in that. Obviously, you all um are going to be a driver of sport tourism in the Northwest Arkansas area. I know you're not just simply targeting Northwest Arkansas residents. So people become from Oklahoma or Missouri, right? And so I'm understanding sort of that tourism piece, I think it's gonna be the focus of that program. So several programs aimed at different pieces of this industry, with the undergrad really being the core of this. How do we explore uh opportunities across?

SPEAKER_02 23:44

I like that. Uh and yeah, that gives a really good understanding for folks on kind of what are some of those options as, you know, especially for young folks that are listening, or maybe parents that have young folks that, you know, maybe are in that space or considering that space, it's uh really nice, you know, options within a program, right? To kind of 75 different students, 75 different directions, and or get specialized as you go.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

Um and the students think about sort of the high-profile experiences that we make sure we give them that. I we teach a class where we take students to some of the major markets around here. So we'll go to Dallas in a couple of weeks and hang out full of students and they'll talk with the Cowboys and FC Dallas and the Mavs and the Stars and American Airlines and uh and PGAs down there at Frisco, right? They'll get that. Um, but we just took some students on a more local network trip where we visited with, you know, Benville CVB, right, to get again this understanding of tourism. Um, we visited with the new Walmart Rec Center, which is fantastic, right? It's an incredible space. We've got some alums that are there. We we visited with um uh Blessings, which is a home golf course for our golf program, but also a private golf course, right? And so understand sort of the business of that. Visit with Faville High School, right, to see what that looks like, right? So those are all different segments of the industry that again are beyond what a lot of our students will come in there and say, I want to look for the star, I want to for the Dallas Cowboys, but that's that's just one tiny sliver of sort of what's out there. Obviously, that gets the media attention, but the job market is much more vast. And a lot of our students, again, find their passions outside of those sort of signature brands. Although, again, we've been really successful in having students work in those signature brands, they love it. But again, the this the breath of opportunities is is is incredible. It's we're different. I get students that come to us potentially from other majors, you know, they, you know, a student that is maybe an accounting, right? We had a kid that came out of our master's program or came out of our master's program, was an undergrad accounting major. But let's say he comes to us in an undergrad. You know, if you're gonna be an accounting major, you're gonna be an accountant for some sort of organization. In our major, it's not job focused as much as industry focused. So in our major, you know, they want to work in our industry, but they don't know what they want to do. And so all the different potential jobs within all the different industry segments is a ton of fun for me. And I think a ton of fun for the students to sort of uncover, learn, explore, discover, et cetera.

SPEAKER_02 26:08

This dovetails into, I won't say it out loud, but it dovetails into my next question. From your experience, like what are some of the more common misconceptions about the sports industry that you tell for folks, you know, anyone contemplating a career there?

SPEAKER_00 26:24

Yeah, I think again, the the hardest thing that we were faced with is students come to us and they want to be uh an athletic director, they want to be an agent, they want to be um a head football coach of the Arkansas Razorbacks. And again, having this conversation that those are uh those are culminating roles of you know 10, 15, 20, 25 years worth of experiences in various functions. So I think a lot of it is just um and we get there pretty quick because again, within the first class or two, they start to recognize the different paths. But I think that's the big misconception is that everybody makes a ton of money, everybody's the spotlight of media attention. And the and the reality is there are very few roles that sort of demand the media attention. Like we see there are very few roles that are making that kind of money, right? That's sort of the tip of the iceberg. But there are tons of roles that exist, tons of organizations, um, and again, tons of entry points uh that students could pursue regardless of what they're interested in, regardless of what market they want to live in, um, regardless of again the impact they want to make. There's just the the variety, I think, is the biggest misconception. We have a lot of students that see sport manager and they think like, oh, I want to be a manager for the football team. Right. And that's really not what our history, our industry or our degree is the business of recreation and sport, right? For lack of a better term. And so it's understanding how these businesses ultimately, you know, provide these products and services, these experiences. And I think just the variety is is the biggest misconception. And um and again, you don't graduate with the degree and then become an athletic director. Our students think that you know, I'm gonna go to school, I'm gonna go to undergrad, I'm gonna go to law school, and then I'm gonna be an agent. And so we have a ton of education about this idea of agencies and their role in our industry. And, you know, just within an agency, the vast majority of jobs that exist are not what you would consider a sport agent. They're entire legal teams that worry about the contracts. Nowadays, agents aren't necessarily flawed JDs, right? Like that's not a required step in that path. And so I think we just have a lot of that, and that's driven because just the media coverage of our industry, right? You sort of see the sensational, right? Sensationalization. Yeah. And of course, there's a lot of, I don't want to say the mundane, but a lot of the jobs that exist that help sort of this machine sort of operate that are are are great career paths, incredibly satisfying. And yeah, that's what's a ton of fun to to to allow us to sort of discover those paths. Yeah. I mean, it's the iceberg, right?

SPEAKER_02 28:52

Like you see, it's a great I mean, you see probably less than I would say five percent, not 10%, 90%, but um, you know, there's the very tip of what you see, and then there's so much more underneath that people just don't even realize. Uh and you mentioned it uh a little bit earlier, a great example. You met with American Airlines. American Airlines is not what most people would consider a sports organization. Absolutely. But uh, and there's a ton of those examples. I mean, I could have had that type of a pivot within, but staying within the consumer package kits industry if I had gone into marketing and then found my way into something that was like, okay, I'm gonna run our sports partnerships. Um, you know, Budweiser or whatever, you know, there's a ton of you know, those types of examples. There's, you know, the accounting for your example, there's tech. I know, I know there's a lot going on in tech right now. And the, I mean, yes, in our world in general, but sports in rec are are no different um in terms of the boom and the opportunities that are there and the need, honestly, for it. I think sports in some ways is ahead of some industries, but it's also really behind in some industries.

Entertainment, Not Just Sports

SPEAKER_00 30:04

Uh we get up to Kansas City, we visit with Team Mobile Center up there. We got a young alum that's up there now, and you know, that's an arena without a sports anchor tenant. And the first thing that my students say is, man, I bet they would love to have a basketball team or a hockey team as a um as a tenant. And and actually they don't, right? Because sports prevents uh them from using that building 365, right? And sports typically don't have the same sort of drive to merch and concessions. Think about it. You go to a concert, you know, much more rarely you're gonna see an artist once a year. You're gonna spend some money on merch and and alcohol and food, you're gonna enjoy your time. If you go to every single game or a game a week, right? That doesn't drive a lot of the team photos of the cost. Yeah. So I think that it's interesting to sort of think about we're we're really not sporting rec as much as we are entertainment, right? But you know, and you're facing this obviously as you as you launch this soccer club, is people aren't deciding whether or not to buy season tickets to Ozarks United or the Naturals. They're thinking about Ozarks United, or I want to go to a nice dinner, Ozarks United, or I want to go catch, you know, go go take a vacation, right? Like it's entertainment. And so, how are we creating experiences that allow people to, I don't know, satisfy whatever those needs and wants are, which are different across people, which is one of the challenges. And so really framing our industry, not so much as rec and sport, but as entertainment, as specific types of entertainment that people are going to pursue.

SPEAKER_02 31:25

Yeah, it's absolutely true. 100%. You're not you're not competing with, you know, everybody is like, well, who's your competitor? Uh, the restaurant right next to us. Absolutely. Yeah. You know, the concert venue, the so many dollars. You know. And you know, we don't look at them, obviously. We look on how do we create win-win situations. I think that's the the magic is rising tide to lift all boats. Absolutely. Absolutely. Uh, but at the end of the day, people do have a finite amount of money. Uh, and so it means a heck of a lot when they choose to spend it with your organization or your establishment or whatever the case is.

SPEAKER_00 32:01

Yeah, gone are the days of uh sitting up in the cheap seats and just expecting those tickets to fly, you know, or see cheap seats disappear because everybody wants some sort of access to proximity to right premium to premium experience in some way, shape, or form. And so, yeah, it's the the challenge is there. The the bar has been raised. You know, I mean as a young kid, um, lived in San Diego. We used to catch a lot of uh Padre games at Jack Murphy Stadium back before, you know, uh stadiums were uh corporately sponsored. Um, but you know, there you you buy your ticket, you went sat in this in the metal bleachers, you had a great time, right? It was about being in the game. That's not enough anymore, right? And so just the expectations have changed across all income ranges, right? So even people that are trying to get in a low at a budget price are still expecting, you know, yeah, this, this elevated experience. And so then how do you do that? Yeah, um, in a way that makes business sense, right? Sustainable.

Ozark United’s Launch And Identity

SPEAKER_02 32:53

It's it's challenging. Very challenging. So uh you'd have fun sidebar uh chatting with our co-founder Warren Smith, who lives in San Diego and is also a Padres fan. Big Tony Wynn guy, man, back in the day. Oh, yeah. Tony Wynn, I remember some fun teams. Yeah. What have you seen kind of NWA, OZFC, soccer? You know, we've been around now a couple of years. You and I have chatted a couple of times. What have you kind of seen from us that maybe you talk about with your students or um of note that you feel like, you know, relevant?

Designing Experiences And Proximity

SPEAKER_00 33:26

Yeah. So um it's been a good case study for us because again, I don't think I've been in a market uh as an instructor, um, as a faculty member, as a club has launched. And so we've sort of taken this as an opportunity to talk about what you all are doing and how you're starting to create, you know, some grassroots awareness. You know, we're I'm a little different than your average Joe because I've got students that work for you. And so I hear, you know, through them. But um, it's a it's a market that we've talked about that's interesting, right? Because you think about Northwest Arkansas, there's these projections of a million people by 2040, 2045, whatever it is. But we've got these very distinct communities, right? And there, I won't say there's there's not physical barriers, but there's perceived barriers, right? We talked about it, you know, I'm down outside Fayetteville and I've been up to Rogers that much, right? Like there's this, again, um perceived distance, but great um um, I don't know, great vibes that each community gives that are different. Um, and so I know that you guys are are are tapping into that and trying to build this grassroots effort. And so, you know, we talked a lot about um this idea of how do you begin as employee number one, how do you start to again just start to be at community events? How do you get that word of mouth going? How do you build the database or item names to start to get um sort of again, just to build some initial awareness? The actual launch, I've got the the pre-launch scarf and the post-launch scarf hanging on my office. And so you know, the the launch I thought was incredible, right? I thought that one of the big challenges obviously around here is that, you know, where the where the Razorbags stay, right? And so obviously there's this shadow that is cast on everything else. And so to rather than lean into that, right? Uh uh we talk a lot about this idea of you know not leaning into um Northwest Arkansas, not leaning into Fayeville, not even Arkansas, it's the Ozark region, right? I think that was a really clever approach to it. Love the colors, right? This is a state that prides themselves on the outdoors, right? And so um, we talk a lot about the launch there and the colors. And so I think that, you know, we talked a bit a bit about this. The timing has turned out really well too for this launch, right? We've we're coming off, again, this incredible um uh increase in awareness of what's happening at MLS, obviously driven by by the likes of Messi, you know, obviously being on a successful team, right? Just winning the championship and then rolling into the World Cup. And so I think that the awareness will only heighten. I think that there is some initial good vibes about this. Obviously, the the area that that we're targeting um I think is it makes a ton of sense. There's a ton of growth. There's a ton of um people that I think fall really naturally into uh what we could we think it was a target audience for this launch here in in this Rogers community. Um and then again, other communities within a short drive. So to me, it's just been it's been a ton of fun to watch you all walk through this. Again, I I thought the the launch was was great. Students, um, we've talked a bit about uh the launch of the colors and the name. And again, I I think they feel similarly about this. And so I think there's a lot of excitement. I think you know it's interesting because I live in or outside Fayville, so I spend my most most of my time in what's considered the college town, right? Yeah. And so the awareness of what's happened beyond the the college borders is sometimes limited. You know, we're intentional about introducing our students to the Northwest Arkansas Naturals. Yeah. They think Springdale's, you know, hours away. Yeah. And so I think that that's been another piece of it is um uh is is is um this idea that you know, even this this this community down there where where the college is the hub, right? Um residents of Fayetteville are expanding, engaging, interacting. And so, you know, as as we talk to our students about their careers, how do they make sure their product is uh applicable, relevant, the conversations, the marketing are engaging beyond simply sort of those those close-knit boards, I think is is really important. I think that we've seen a lot of good evidence of that.

SPEAKER_02 37:18

And I think that that's um I mean you hit on this right as kind of you started the episode here and and the show was the the cool thing about sports, um, and for me and not biased, but perhaps soccer more than any other sport is the ability to bring people together um that break those perceived barriers, sure, yeah and give that common thread for people to latch on to and find community and belonging. Absolutely. Um and that's what you know for me is is the most fun and cool thing about you know what I get to do every day.

SPEAKER_00 37:59

And that's what you offer is different, right? We talk about the competition, right, is not other sports experience, it's entertainment. And, you know, despite the fact it's 2025, we live in this sort of digitally constructed world, right? I think that the that need for for live experiences, for social connectivity, for um connection to something that um becomes part of your identity. And a sports team, I think, is really important. I think it's being craved. And I don't know what this world would look like or what that craving would look like if COVID never happened, but I think COVID potentially increased this need for, right? This idea, this connection to community, this need for, you know, um experiences to be a part of the identity.

SPEAKER_02 38:43

I think it I think it woke people up to the importance of it and that we took it for granted. And so, and then that uh flip of the switch in people's just kind of brains into everyday function, but then also the push further into a digital space, I think that combo has driven, you know, this increased heightened yearning and craving and you know, all of that, the challenge as well and as just everything becoming more expensive, right? Absolutely across the board. And so I know that you know people may still not find I mean you can get creative, but it's it's you know, it still costs money to go to these things.

Tech, Immersion, And Social Needs

SPEAKER_00 39:26

Well, COVID drove everybody home, right? So we had this in-game live experience that we created that again was relatively bare bones. There were some premium pieces. COVID drove everybody back to the houses, and we were reminded um how comfortable our couches are. We were reminded how large our TVs were, we were minded how inexpensive and beverage was for the grocery store. And so I think initially coming out of COVID, it was it was challenging. A lot of, you know, the industry people that I I speak to across multiple segments, you know, said that initial chargeback was hard because it was hard to get people to cough up the funds. Right. For that live experience because they got so comfortable at home and a little bit of time passed. And I think people were feeling that there was something missing, right? Despite the fact that they had this incredible screen, this comfy couch, this cheap beer, they were missing that social piece. And I think that we've seen this tide shift and we've seen this incredible pushback, right? This incredible need for it. And so I it's been this interesting ebb and flow that happened that, you know, a couple of years ago in the classroom, we were talking about how do we get how do we get people off couches? And now it's like, how do we continue to create opportunities for community, right? It's not about watching the game anymore. It's about community. How do you create social engagement on community building opportunities?

SPEAKER_02 40:38

Well, now you've got this also with that, too, is uh, I feel like, which at least for soccer was a thing, but you also have um in other sports as well, I would say other sports as well, you know, football, basketball is like a you get you may not be able to go to the game, but you can go get your butt off your couch, go somewhere to watch it, like these watch parties, right? Um and then you've got companies, and we talk about tech and and you know, trends now. You've got companies like a Cosm that are combining that now with brand like you know, sphere type, immersive experience type things. Like, you know, I don't know if you I guess I'm I'm dovetailing into like what trends are you seeing right now in sports that are kind of cool and nifty that you'd like to talk about.

Right-Sizing Venues And Fan Flow

SPEAKER_00 41:25

Yeah, well, Cosm is super cool. We we when I head down to Dallas in January with students, um, we last year we caught a show at Gosm. We kind of game. I just actually bought my Cosm tickets a couple days ago for our group. We're gonna catch a Lakers Spurs game the week that we're down there. Uh because again, that's the that's just their step, right? Yeah. Even Cosm is not so much about this immersive environment. You know, initially you walk in that dome, you're like, wow, this is incredible. But very quickly, here's my group of 10 early career like sports professionals, and they they're in the moment, but then they're talking, right? They're engaging, having this dialogue, they're not fixated on the screen, even in that environment that's just like crazy immersive thing. And so it's almost like that's the the care to get you in the space, and then it's still the same sort of social engagement, you know. I I'm sitting there the entire time um watching. I mean, it was it was I think it was a Mavs Lakers game last year. And so there's LeBron, there's uh Jason Kidd, you know, right next to me on the screen. Yeah. And I turn around, my students are talking. Like they're in a circle, they're having a conversation. I'm like, how'd y'all forget this? But yeah, I think regardless of the tech, I think it always still comes back to its, it's, I don't want to say it's background, but it's part of a larger thing. Yeah. And I think what what I'm seeing with tech is it's allowing us to um to connect, engage, to bring the experience to people 24-7, right? It's it's no longer, you know, you don't experience the Razorbacks, you know, for seven Saturdays in the fall. You experience the Razorbacks every single day. There's not a day that goes by that I don't get some sort of Razorback content, right? I'm learning about the Razorback football team, I'm reading about it like there's something, right? Um, and so I think that's what tech has done is it's provide a steady stream the ability to continue to reinforce that identity, to educate consumers, right, to keep them sort of feeling connected. Um, but I think that what hasn't gone away and I don't think will go away again is that that need for that social piece. Uh and so I I think tech for sure. But then I think that if we just think about the experience, I think it's still, again, it's it's premium, but premium is the wrong word for it. Because I think what was premium now is is expected for all levels, right? And so we think about things like proximity too, right? And so the Hogwalk, right? Like that's not a unique thing. We've seen that across college sport. Every stadium, every arena now has a tunnel club, right? But it can't simply be for that level. Like everybody wants that. And so we're seeing the shrinking of stadiums, we're seeing additional ways for again people to access, you know, um experiences that are closer and proximity to the individual field. Um, so I think that the the bar for experiences continues to be to continues to be pushed up. Um, and I think a lot of it is people want to feel like again, they're they're doing something cool. Yeah, I think if you really step back and watch, and I tell my students this all the time, when I go to games, I spend a little bit of time watching, I spend most of my time watching people. And so what you see is even people that are doing the high-end premium experiences, having access to things that are like, wow, they're still talking to each other. You see people on the sideline, you see people, you know, it's forming the EA for the team to write there, they do that, they think it's cool, and then they're talking. So again, I think that the expectation of the these elevated experiences are happening across all income levels, all um price points. Yeah, but I think it what hasn't changed is just this desire for the social connectivity. So I think I think tech is a way to stay constantly connected and educate consumers. And I think the elevated expectation of experiences are what I'm seeing. And then the I'm not sure if it's a trend so much, it's against status quo of just I want to I want to engage with other people, right? And it's a social experience. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:08

It's about relationships. It's a social, you know. I think um you hit on something too on proximity to, and I think that that's also a little bit of a differentiator for us. Absolutely. Um, which is, you know, we're not gonna have a 30,000 seat stadium. No, and every single seat is going to be, you know, a part of the action and really close to the field and close to everything. And you know, you'll be able to see everything from every every part of the stadium kind of a thing. And that's you know, not just our stadium, but like, I mean, if you've gone to a MLS stadium like SKC, they have a phenomenal facility where if you leave your seat and you're going to get a beverage or whatever, you can still see from you know, up on the concourse at any point as you're walking around, which is just phenomenal design and and forethought into you know the experience part. Um and important stoppage and play. Absolutely. You do you're you you know, you feel like you're gonna miss something. So you'd rather, you know, mess yourself in the in the in the seat than go to the restroom.

SPEAKER_00 46:14

And that was a big part of MLS success, obviously, was right sizing stadiums. Yeah. That opened the industry's eyes. Huge. Not just soccer, but I think it opened the industry's eyes to how important that was as part of the expanse. But I think what MLS has done right, and several clubs talk about this sporting up. A KC talks about how when you walk in the facility, everybody walks down to their seats. Unless you're going to a suite, every seat is closer. So as you come in, you're never walking away. You're always walking towards the pitch. And that's this perception of, again, proximity to the game itself and the action.

Human Touchpoints Versus Over-Tech

SPEAKER_02 46:45

Yeah, it's totally true too. And and uh and it's little things like it has an impact and a big difference. And you know, most people aren't necessarily thinking about it. But as you bring that up, they'll be like, ah, yeah. You know, and it's just so interesting, all the little subtleties, just like that, times, you know, a thousand that go into creating, you know, the environment and the experience that culminates into my gosh, do I need to come back here?

SPEAKER_00 47:12

Yeah, we've been on that trend for a while. It was years ago where we saw arenas and stadiums renumbering, right? Because you'd no one wanted to sit in the 500 level. And that sounds awful, right? So let's instead of having a one, two, three, four, five, let's just have two bigger sections, one and two. So then you buy a ticket in 200, you're still up top. But the perception is again, you're in the second 200 level. And then, you know, for a long time now, we've been, you know, blowing out seats in the top to create these social clubs, right? We're reducing capacity because those are seats that lack the proximity. There's greater value in creating social spaces rather than seats that again lack that proximity. And now, again, I think we're to the point now where new construction is embracing this idea of again, right-sizing facility to um maximize the experience for all. And I think that's what you all are really positioned well to do, obviously, is coming in, knowing what you want to create and being intentional with creating the space that's gonna allow you to create the environment and the experience and uh that you're all looking to do.

SPEAKER_02 48:06

Yeah, 5,000 fans in a 6,000 seat stadium beats 10,000 in a 30,000 seat facility in any sport, any day of the week. Like so we're I'm just I get goosebumps talking about them just excited to to get this thing going. But uh you've offered such great insight, man. I guess one more question for you before we kind of head out here. What if you had a crystal ball and it was Prof. Schmidt's, you know, predictions uh in the next five to ten years for sports in the industry, you know, what are one or two things that you know you're keyed in on right now that you think are kind of gonna start bubbling up? Yeah, that's uh I mean, I wish I knew.

SPEAKER_00 48:49

Uh if I knew I'd I'd be driving a lot nicer car than I am.

SPEAKER_02 48:53

Um yeah, that's a great question. Um and maybe a follow-on. If you don't have anything that you are like, man, I think this, what would you like to see?

SPEAKER_00 49:03

Um, I think I'll touch on that. I think that's a great angle to take. Um, I talk a lot about um, we are I and honestly, I I think this is gonna happen. Um, we went from, you know, my my my childhood days going to Padre Games. Yeah, you know, you walk up, you you park, and the parking attendant is, you know, a fan of the team and you're talking the game. You walk up and you buy your ticket to the box office, you're getting excited about your seats. You walk in and there's a ticket taker there who's again getting you pumped up, knows what's happening in the game. And so everybody within that ecosystem is heavily invested in that experience itself. But what we've seen over the years is um driven by sort of the need to focus on core mission, driven on business efficiencies, et cetera. We've seen a lot of outsourcing of functions. So parking and ticket taking, and and obviously people buying tickets online. And so I walked through that um with my students. You can, you know, park, buy your ticket, enter, buy food, buy concessions, and never interact with an employee of the organization, right? And I I think that we're missing that piece of humanity. I think that yes, I can go and engage with my my friend group, right? But I'm not going there and embrace my engage with my friend group. I'm not going there to be a part of a larger identity, larger community. And so I'm not a Red Sox fan, but right, Fenway, if you've ever been Fenway, Sweet Caroline, middle of the eighth inning, like you're a part of something that's big, right? I think we're missing an opportunity to have employees, right? People invest in the organization, engaging with our with our um fans, our consumers, um, and a lot of different elements of that experience. I think we're outsourcing too much to tech. And I think that we're gonna see this um, I don't know, this push this pivot back to how do we introduce a little bit more humanity into the interactions that occur.

Micro-Communities And Shared Moments

SPEAKER_02 50:53

I and I think uh to take it one step further, um even though you may have removed friction from the experience, without a doubt, save costs. And save some costs, save some friction for the consumer, like, oh man, that was super easy. My ticket came right to my phone. Like, I get the I don't even have to leave my seat, my favorite comes to me. A lot of the time, and you probably can, or you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like a lot of the time you'll get that extra trip to the team store or to the concession stand or the the vendor walking around from just engaging in conversation. Absolutely. Um, where if you remove those and you're doing it via a phone, yeah, you can probably serve them something. Like, you know, there's things like that within the tech, like, hey, are you thirsty? How about a beer? Like, I'm sure you could do stuff like that. Uh, and I'm sure that they do. But I I almost feel like when you bring that human, you know, Warren says this all the time and it it hits hard uh in a lot of what I do is this this is where in the relationship business. Yeah. And if you lose those touch points of connectivity and engagement, uh human to human, that relationship becomes less um the connective tissue is human-to-human experience in a relationship. If your relationship is with a screen in your organization, that's that's tough.

SPEAKER_00 52:25

Yeah. Uh and shared experiences. You know, so like if I leave my seat and go wait in line for a beer, now I'm having a shared experience with everybody in that in line for that beer, right? We're this little mini community that's happening.

SPEAKER_02 52:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:35

They run out of beer, we're all like, oh, or something big happens. We're high five. Here's this brand new group of people that I just became a member of this community, this micro community, that never would have happened if a beer got delivered to me in my seat, right? Exactly. I feel like, man, I just think that there are, again, there's this hyper focus on um convenience for the individual in a way that allows them to silo themselves while being in a 5,000 seat stadium, right? Why are we allowing people to silo? Why I I think there are ways to positly impact experience by getting people to still engage in these microcommunities that exist throughout the state.

SPEAKER_02 53:13

It's almost like the uh almost like the movie WALL-E. Like we've gone too far, maybe on the on the pendulum. Absolutely. And then we need to find our way back maybe a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 53:21

Yeah, and I and I and I think, and again, we're driven by consumers, right? Like if we make a decision from a business perspective that doesn't resonate, we'll know pretty quickly. We'll move again, right? So we're we're driven by consumers. So I think you know, there was just like there was this recognition that the whole viewing experience was fantastic until we realized we were missing the social connectivity of live experiences. I think we're gonna get to a place where we're gonna over tech the experience. And I think people are gonna start pushing back and start wanting a little bit more of that sort of natural. And I don't think they wouldn't come out and say that. No, yeah. That their behavior will, you know, be evidence of that.

SPEAKER_02 53:59

Yeah. I think if you ask somebody, would you rather have a beer brought to you and you just push a button on your phone? Oh every time they're gonna say that, right? Uh but you know, to your point about earlier things and you know, subtleties and and subconsciously you're like, oh, that was cool.

SPEAKER_00 54:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:15

You know, you think back about the experience of the game, and it's those, it's those moments, those mutt those micro moments throughout, you know, where many sporting events in my life.

SPEAKER_00 54:22

I couldn't tell you the score of any of them, but I I have stories. Yep. Like I have, and a lot of the stories I have in my mind are ones of me and my buddies or me with strangers again that happened in random situations.

Predictions And A Call For Humanity

SPEAKER_02 54:32

Uh met Brendan Hunt from Ted Lasso Actor uh in line for the bathroom at uh a Copa America game in Kansas City. That's amazing. Uh that's amazing, you know. So I don't know that we're gonna automate going to the bathrooms, but but that's just another example and a story. Like again, I I don't remember the score exactly, but I'll always remember like not trying to be the the over the top and like in a weird spot too. Like, hey man, uh I know here you are, I love what you do. That's amazing. Appreciate you. And just getting the you know. That's incredible. Uh but yeah, it was pretty funny. Uh but man, prof. Craig. Thank you so much, man, for joining me today. This has just been such a fun convo. I could talk to you for several more hours. We'll have to have you back on. But uh just want to say thank you for everything that you do to contribute to the future of the sports industry and NWA and molding the mines here. Uh, you know, we would die out uh as an industry if we didn't have folks like you bringing up the next crop.

SPEAKER_00 55:35

So thank you. I appreciate you again, as I've told you in multiple emails and multiple conversations. You know, we're we work hard to try to get these these students ready, but without people like you want to invest, man, it wouldn't happen. So we appreciate you.

SPEAKER_02 55:46

Yeah, and a shout out to our uh U of A Street Team members. Uh we cannot do not have the success truly that we've had so far in building our fan base, building, you know, our our awareness in the community without you guys, uh, and we truly treasure you guys and and you're such a valued part of the org. So uh and your the work you do is so, so important. I mean, they're the face of the org. They're the first sometimes the first conversations that people ever have with your brand. And if you think about that, that's an incredibly big responsibility to take on. Absolutely. Uh, and so those guys are guys and gals are getting some great experience for sure. Absolutely. So uh just appreciate you guys again and the U of A and the program that you guys run. So that'll do it for this episode of Pitch the Pro. We hope you enjoyed it. Be sure to catch all of our episodes on pitchthepro.com or look for Pitch the Pro on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcast for more content. Until next time, cheers, Northwest Arkansas.

SPEAKER_01 56:42

Thanks for joining us on this episode of the Pitch the Pro podcast. Be sure to tune in again in two weeks for the next installment and check out the stoppage time series for a recap of today's episode. Be sure to find us at Pitch the Pro on YouTube, Instagram, and everywhere you get your podcasts. Until next time, Northwest Arkansas, cheers.