Complaints about generations often come down to MANNERS. Why does each generation behave the way they do, and why do they expect others to be just like them?
Tana and Malcolm start with an innocent question about greetings and rabbit trail their way through discussions on wealth, gender norms, politeness vs. kindness, going "no contact," and more.
Complaints about generations often come down to MANNERS. Why does each generation behave the way they do, and why do they expect others to be just like them?
Tana and Malcolm start with an innocent question about greetings and rabbit trail their way through discussions on wealth, gender norms, politeness vs. kindness, going "no contact," and more.
Hey. Alright, I have a question for you. Oh wow, you're
Tana:just jumping right in. Yes. I thought it was gonna be like, how was your weekend? How was your day? What's going on? Alright, you're doing
Malcolm:fine. I am just curious. Skip the niceties. Because I feel like if I like, walk with you or with dad, we pass like a stranger or something, you guys will always say hi to each other. Or something of the sorts, right? Like, whatever stranger's walking by, but when Shelby and I are walking, we just completely ignore anyone else. Do
Tana:you have a giant fuck you put on your forehead so people
Malcolm:go away? Well, it's like, I feel like we, like, you guys always pause whatever conversation we're in to say hi to this person. Shelby and I just continue our conversation as we're walking past and we don't really acknowledge the other people.
Tana:That's an observation, that is not a question. Well, but
Malcolm:like, why? Why
Tana:do you do that? But like, why? Well, first of all, I will point out that that is more so your father than me. Oh, 100%. If I am by myself... Sometimes I will greet people, uh, other times I will pretend I do not see them, like, oh, look at my phone, like, you know, um.
Malcolm:I feel like it's such a common thing, I see, like, the older the generation is, the more likely they are to talk to just, like, random strangers, and it always surprises me. Because, like, I feel like so many people in our generation just don't do that unless you've already met the person.
Tana:Hmm. Yeah, I, you know what? I, I do, I wonder if that is a generational thing or a personal thing. I don't
Malcolm:know. Maybe. I don't know. I feel like I mostly see it generationally. Really? Because the only time I see it from people my age or slightly older or younger or whatever is, um, Like, if they've already met them. Like, even if it was only once, then they're going to say something. Oh, for sure. But if you've never met them before, or never talked to them before, you're way less likely
Tana:to do it. You know, that's really interesting because, so there are times I like to walk around the park. And I just don't feel like dealing with people. And then there are other times I'm like in a good mood and so if I pass someone I'm gonna like greet them, right? And I never thought to pay attention to age to, to gauge the response or whether or not somebody is also initiating like a, at least like a head nod. Yeah. Or, um, just like a hi, good afternoon, good morning. Um. So, I'll have to pay attention to that because, because sometimes, you know, people are like, hey, yeah, hi, woo, you know, woo, okay, I don't get any woos, but, you know, uh, just like a good morning, good morning, you know, kind of thing, yeah, um, and if I don't see you, good afternoon, good night. That's from, uh, the Truman Show. But anyway, I don't know if it is generational and how people respond. So, then there's, so there's two questions, right? Like, initiation and response. Yeah. You know what I mean? Cause there are times I'll be like, good morning, and they will just, either they're looking straight ahead or they just, whatever, will not acknowledge me. And, uh, yeah. So,
Malcolm:anyway. I'll smile, but that's about it. I'm not gonna talk to someone.
Tana:I don't want to talk to people. I don't.
Malcolm:I don't care about them. Why do I have to talk to them?
Tana:This is one of those circumstances where I would love to have, like, a boomer in this conversation because I would love to hear if they think that that's rude not to greet people. Do you
Malcolm:know what I'm saying? I wouldn't care either way if it's rude or not,
Tana:so. Well, but I mean, I want to know the generational Difference like if they if they actually think it's it's rude or
Malcolm:actually do you think that's another thing as well with my generation is we and what's
Tana:your generation?
Malcolm:Gen Z. Yeah.
Tana:Thanks. I'm just clarifying for you by listening. I'm Gen X, you're Gen Z. Go on.
Malcolm:Um, but, uh, like I think a lot of people in my generation don't necessarily care if something is considered rude or not. Like, I think we care to a certain extent, but it's not what drives us to do things. Like, we're not going to do something just because it's rude not to do it. Right. Because, like, why, like, I don't care if some random person that's walking finds me rude. Because I'm, I'm not going to be interacting with that person at all.
Tana:So I would actually wonder about the, the, the definition of the word rude here. Because, okay, you're looking it up, awesome.
Malcolm:Offensively impolite, or ill mannered. Okay. Or having a startling a, uh, abruptness of what? I'm very rude then.
Tana:Then you were very rude to me when you were born It was a very startling abruptness. Yes. Um, what's, uh, what did you, what was the first part of it?
Malcolm:Uh, offensively impolite or
Tana:offensively Impolite or ill mannered. Or ill mannered. See now I feel like that. That is very subjective. Yeah. Like what is offensively impolite. And then also you have different people who have different versions of what impolite means, right? Yeah. Um, what rude means, what, what politeness is. Yeah.
Malcolm:People are very subjective to what's rude. Like some people want table manners a certain way. Some people don't care about table manners. Oh,
Tana:some people, uh, don't, older generations, uh, don't think you should wear a hat indoors. Yeah, I never
Malcolm:got that. I never understood that.
Tana:And, you know, some of this stuff, I'm sure if we were to look into it, if we were gonna go do some research and say like, where did different traditions come from? Or what, you know, uh, I'm sure we, there would be some kind of origin or whatever, but my guess is that here, actually, this is a sort of a question and a guess at the same time, there's certain. Things that are considered manners, right, that you would look back like if you were watching like a period piece movie, or if you were reading a book, or if you were maybe even looking at historical documents or something, you would see like certain conventions maybe around dining, around having guests, or whatever, but my question would be, um, how many of those are only in the richer um. levels, right? Like, yeah, like these were agreed upon manners by the moneyed people of society. Yeah. And, and how many were like, generally, you know what I'm saying? And, and so if my guess is correct, that it is based on people with money, then that is not just This is good manners. It is, these are the things that show me you have money and you belong in my
Malcolm:circle. That's another thing I think that has changed societally is that I think a lot of people took things without questioning it in the past. Oh yeah. But I think, like, now my generation, and it actually started with millennials really, have been questioning
Tana:all those things. I would say no. Questioning things did not start. Start with Millennials. Yes, I just
Malcolm:meant it became a big thing with Millennials because you have all of those
Tana:Articles. Oh, Millennials killed all these different things. Yeah. Well, here's a One of the things I think you're you're just it's not just that generation, right? it's the confluence of that generation and the internet and social media so that Somebody questioning in one town could find others questioning in other towns and go, Oh, I'm not alone and feel more emboldened to share their opinion and to fight back. That's
Malcolm:fair. Um, yeah, I just think there's so many people like, uh, usually older people that will find something rude but not have a reason other than they find it rude or that it's already established to be rude. And so then they just find it rude. Right. But I feel like there have been times in the past where I've found something rude or like I don't understand why someone does something and then I'm like trying to think on it instead of just like calling someone out and I'm like why, why do I find this rude? It's not, like there's no reason behind
Tana:it. Yeah, it's, it's, some of these things are like ingrained in us, right? We're just like... So you just assume, right? You go, Oh, that's not right. And you don't really question it. And I actually have, um, I think a good example, um, of this, which is people getting upset about, well, in general, people are, you know, pissed off about people being transgender. You know, like there's a certain segment of the population that is, is, I mean, kind of, um, they, they just think, you know, they call it transgenderism and they say it like shouldn't exist. Right. And even, that sounds like a made up word. It is. And all words are made up if you think about it. But, uh, uh, the, the main objection. Appears to be, I mean, of course there's all these, these objections of like, this is the biological sex and you can't change your biological sex and you shouldn't mutilate your body. Like those are all the objections, right? But even like... Why do you care, first of all? Well, yeah, the children, Malcolm. It's always about the children, supposedly. How
Malcolm:dare you make your children feel more comfortable! Right, yeah.
Tana:Anyway, uh, so when you, but even before you get to like somebody who would be like getting the surgery or something like that, you have people who start to dress against gender norms, right? And it's so fascinating to me how angry some people get about this. And then you ask them why. And they're like, that's not. That's not what the norm is, that's not, you know, whatever, and, um, that's not how men dress, kind of thing. And I'm like, have you seen our founding fathers who you say you love so much?
Malcolm:Wore dresses and
Tana:makeup and... Like, tights, high heeled boots, wigs, like... Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, what is acceptable dress for different genders has changed so much throughout the centuries. Some,
Malcolm:so many things has just become... Um, oh gosh. I guess neutral. I'm thinking of a different word, but neutral is the only thing I can come up with. Like, between the genders. Like, gender neutral is literally what the term is. Oh,
Tana:you mean, you mean like, um, like, all women and men now, like, wear jeans, basically. Yeah, like,
Malcolm:I mean, and even things beyond that where it's just like, one size. Like, they don't have a men's size and a women's size. Oh, I see. So many places now just have, like, small, medium, large. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And honestly, it makes it ten times simpler, for one thing, for everyone, to just use the same. Measurements. Well,
Tana:actually, if we went by measurements, that's what would be easiest because there are different ways that certain clothes fit most. That's
Malcolm:true. There are some companies where like medium doesn't fit me and some companies where medium
Tana:does fit me. Well, I'm not even talking about the difference between companies. I'm talking about the difference between a pair of jeans that would tip, that would fit the typical male and a pair of jeans that would fit the typical female because of like curvature and like stuff like that.
Malcolm:Well, even just stuff like average height for. A man is like 5'8 or 5'9 and a woman is like a 5'2.
Tana:Yeah. So, I mean, you couldn't go 100 percent that direction, but my point is that people are getting very, very upset about something we have constructed. They're almost acting as if a man wearing a dress is something that is against nature, which I find funny because If they want to go back to their, um, biblical roots that they're often coming from. We were naked in the garden. Yeah. We didn't have clothes. And I forgot to turn off my phone ringer. Ha ha ha ha. Okay, sorry about that. Anyway, uh, and Malcolm just slowly reached over
Malcolm:and turned his on. No, mine is off. I was just making sure. Oh, it is?
Tana:You were better at this than I am. Anyway, what was I talking about? Naked in the garden. Yes, thank you. So if we really want to go back we should put, I'll be wearing fig leaves, but um, yeah it's just all of these things were decided by some people in power, right? And so at this point in our society For the most part, I know there are fringes, but for the most part, like, we've decided that, um, yes, women can wear pants, yes, women can wear a lot of clothes men can wear, but men cannot wear a lot of the clothes women can wear. It's, it's like, it's very one sided. And it also kind of ignores, like, Scottish people wearing
Malcolm:kilts. I don't know why, but this reminds me of, like, um... There is some like protest or something at a private school that had a dress code, but the dress code didn't specify between women and men, so a bunch of the Or I guess boys and girls. Um, so a bunch of the boys that were like getting way too hot in their dress pants are wearing skirts to school. Nice. And so all of them were all the boys were wearing skirts to the school and I loved that. But it's like on top of that as well it's Stuff like funerals and weddings and stuff like that as well. Like you're expected to come and like these really fancy Dress outfits Some people
Tana:that
Malcolm:do like themed weddings I kind of understand if the people there can afford
Tana:it that yeah, I
Malcolm:But don't force people to wear stuff that's uncomfortable or that they can't Like go out and buy
Tana:or that they would have to buy especially just for that wedding Yeah, exactly like I understand like oh, you're going to a wedding typically you're gonna dress up Well, if you go to a lot of weddings and you have a dress you've worn to weddings and you can typically do that You know what? I mean? Yeah Um, but when you make it specific, like, Oh, we want our wedding to look like this, so you need to buy this kind of outfit, or whatever, that's very annoying, but I get very annoyed about weddings in general. Like, I just, I really dislike weddings. I
Malcolm:just don't know what the problem is between, and you know I have, I don't understand this at all, even to this day, is I don't understand the difference between informal and formal.
Tana:Yeah, I know that was always a problem with you growing up and I, I sometimes wanted to fight with you about it and sometimes didn't
Malcolm:I, I can now get the difference between formal and informal. I still don't understand to this day how jeans are considered informal while like those dresspants are considered formal while jeans.. Are like, like I just don't understand it. They're both made from nice materials. They both look nice.
Tana:Jeans are more durable.
Malcolm:I don't, like, I don't understand, I don't understand the dress pants versus jeans thing. I don't understand how jeans are informal.
Tana:That's interesting and I'm gonna guess that that also has to do with class. Maybe. Because I'm, I'm guessing that denim was probably developed as a durable thing for people who had Uh, labor intensive jobs. I'm guessing a lot of this stuff comes back to money. Probably. Like, we want to separate ourselves from the lowly people. Usually
Malcolm:it's the older people that have the money who are able to set the norms, and then the younger generation that wants things different. Can't change anything.
Tana:Right. Yeah, so I think a lot of this stuff is falling off over time because with each generation comes a new question. Well, why do we have to do it this way? So I remember like, honestly, I remember hearing a lot growing up. People complaining about, uh, people wearing hats inside. And I would be like, why? That is so dumb. Like, what, what does it matter? Um, but that was like a really big thing. But I don't really hear that anymore. I don't really hear anybody go, Oh, why are you wearing a hat inside? You know what I mean? Of course, I don't travel in moneyed circles, so maybe it does. I don't know. I'm
Malcolm:guessing now, if anything, it's just like military households. Maybe, yeah. Um, or like government households, I think a lot of times. Or super
Tana:traditional. Yeah. Yeah, and I think, honestly, a lot of that has to do with not only the democratization of the internet, But also the fact that there's way more rags to riches stories now, where somebody who did not grow up with money then got money. And then they were like, well, I still want to be comfortable and do the things I want to do. So I'm just going to be, you know, I
Malcolm:don't understand why people who are in power have a lot of wealth have to impose their views on others. Like why can't other people just live the way that they want to? Like, like, I cannot understand for the life of me why someone would want to live in a tiny house in the middle of buttf k nowhere. But, some people do. So, go for it. I'd prefer to be, you know, near town. And with a good internet connection. But you would
Tana:not decree that people cannot live in tiny homes, like...
Malcolm:In buttf king nowhere. Yeah, yeah,
Tana:um, yeah, it's, uh, yeah. I, in the abstract, I understand power, right? Like, I understand that people like to have power. But when it comes down to practicality, I think... The same thing like you do. Like, why do they, why do they care? But I, I know it comes down to control. People want to control all the things. Yeah. And they want, it's greed too, right? If greed wasn't a problem, uh, capitalism would look a lot different. It would be some kind of social capitalism, right? Um, but we have elevated greed and individual success so much in our country that we literally will have people fighting against laws that will protect consumers and protect other people, right? So it's all about just like control and greed and power and I just don't understand Not caring about others to that degree Yeah, me neither. I I just I I can't fathom it and Getting back to sort of like politeness and manners and stuff, I feel like one of the things I want to say is that you can be a polite asshole but you cannot be a kind asshole.
Malcolm:Yes, nice and kind are two different things.
Tana:No, I would say polite and nice are similar and kind. is different. Yeah. So there's, uh, one of my favorite musicals of all time is Into the Woods. And, uh, there's, there's this scene where the witch is sort of wagging her finger at some of the fairy tale folk. And, um, she's like, you're so nice. You're not good. You're not bad. You're just nice.
Malcolm:Get roasted. What? I said get roasted. Yeah.
Tana:And. I love that whole, that whole, uh, well, the song is great. The whole musical is great. And yeah, anyway, um, the original Broadway cast, but I just, I just always think about that. Like nice is separate from good and bad. Nice and polite are masks we put on in society to deal with other people. But it doesn't reveal who we truly are underneath.
Malcolm:That's why I think, um, anti heroes and anti villains have become a huge part of storytelling now, or has at least been discovered as a huge part of storytelling now because now you don't just have a good for goodness sake and you don't have a bad for badness sake. You have like someone with trauma, like a good person with trauma and that might like, Lash out and do something bad. Or you have somebody who does horrible things, but they believe they're doing it for a good reason and Right.
Tana:Yeah. Yeah. You have, um, people are complex instead of just like caricatures of good and bad. Yeah. Yeah. And I think what happens a lot with certain people, um, is that they have convinced themselves that polite is the ultimate goal. You know, um, being, you know, you can object and say whatever you want to, but be polite about it. I mean, this was, this goes back to, you know, the Civil Rights Movement when, um, Martin Luther King Jr. was doing all of his, honestly, Peaceful protesting and these, um, these, this group of ministers, maybe, maybe there was a rabbi in there. It was a group of religious leaders. Kind of wrote this letter to him. Well, they wrote this letter. They didn't kind of write it. They wrote this letter to him and they were, they were like, You know, I mean, we just don't agree with your tactics, like, we agree with you, we understand you want rights and all, but like, you're just kind of going about it the wrong way, and like, you know, they were just sort of slapping his hand, and, um, he, this, and this is where the famous letter from Birmingham jail comes in. It was a response to these religious leaders, and he basically says, like, the biggest enemy, um, of those who were fighting for civil rights was the white moderate. It wasn't like, oh, it's not the, it's, he's like, the biggest enemy isn't these people who are actually actively oppressing us, trying to kill us. And, you know, it is the white moderate who's just like, well, you know, um, kinda like those memes when, uh, the kneeling and the NFL was kind of blew up and became a big deal. And I still do not. And, and people were like, you absolutely can fight, fight for rights. We, we. Um, support your fight for rights, but not like that, and not like that, and it would be like a picture of someone kneeling, and a picture of someone else doing, like, you know what I mean? Like, it was, basically, like, you have to go through these pre approved avenues in order to make change. Well, here's
Malcolm:the thing about that too, is that he did go through pre approved avenues. He literally asked a veteran if it was okay if he did that. Oh, Colin Kaepernick? Yeah. Yeah, and he, and, The veteran said that it was all
Tana:right. Yeah, because I think actually he was just going to sit and then the veteran was like, I think it would be more appropriate and respectful if you kneel. I think that was how that went. Yeah. And Martin Luther King Jr. also tried to go through proper channels. Like, and the, the, and the thing is, the thing, the big lie, right? Is they're like, well, you, we would just, we would agree with you if you'd go through the proper channels. Well, they want them to go through the proper channels because then they can strike them down. And.
Malcolm:That's what happens a lot, is that they do try going through the proper channels. They strike them down and then they're like, Well, you probably should try going through the proper channels.
Tana:Right. And it's just a vicious cycle, right? Yeah. So that's where, like, I get frustrated with the whole conversation about manners and politeness and niceness and, and civil discourse and all that stuff. Because those things tend to uphold white supremacy. They tend to uphold the rich and those in power. They don't tend to allow for people with grievances to come forward and have a meaningful discussion. Yeah, and so people have to resort to protest. Yes, and then they go, well, we would have listened to you if you weren't so angry.
Malcolm:And so I don't understand as well as that. America's constitutions say that we have the right to protest, but then anytime that some, that people are protesting things we don't want them to protest, we get mad at them for it.
Tana:Absolutely. Now I think there are some acceptable forms of protest and some not. Well, yeah, of course. I mean, I think there are people.
Malcolm:That's why there's protests and there's like riots.
Tana:Well, This is a that's a really tricky question, right? Because Martin Luther King jr. Said that the riot was the voice of the unheard right and basically saying that once people get to this point of desperation then You know, that breaks out. I don't think that makes riots right, but I think it helps understand them better. Of like why they happen in certain communities. Now, you have something like January 6th, which multiple... Um, GOP Congress people have called, uh, valid protest or valid discourse or something. I can't remember the phrasing off the top of my head, but they were like, Oh, that was valid political discourse. And you're like, what? They literally
Malcolm:broke into the Capitol. That was valid. Right.
Tana:Right. And some people also were saying like, Oh, I don't see the difference between that and these BLM riots. And I'm like, you don't? Like, you know, I can guarantee you, you would have seen the difference if it was a crowd of black people attacking the Capitol. You would have seen
Malcolm:it. Especially since, uh, some of those were, um, actually started by the police too, not even by the protesters.
Tana:I, I'm curious about that. I've heard that as well. And I'm very curious about the, the, the proof for that. Because I wouldn't be surprised by it. I mean, you go back. Back, back, back, and the FBI did some shady shit in that, you know, as well, but, um.
Malcolm:I mean, there's also been some things where it's said it started from one person. It was because one person in the protest, like, threw a bottle
Tana:or something. There's that. I think that's the other, that's, that's the larger picture to keep in mind. As soon as there's an
Malcolm:excuse, basically.
Tana:Yeah, and, I don't think I'd be able to find it this quickly, but, um, I did have, I did have something, um, Uh, tagged because it kept coming up over and over and over. Oh, there it is. Um, because people would, would conflate all of the Black Lives Matter protests and they'd be like, these are violent, blah, blah, blah. And there was a research, there was research done. It said 93 percent of BLM protests have been peaceful. Yeah. 93%. So it obviously, you know, we know what's happening there and people's assessment, um, is racist. Um, but like. The march on the, at the march, I'm not going to call it a march, that justifies it somehow, the attack on the Capitol on January 6th, that's not an acceptable, you know, form of going outside. And that's beyond impolite, you know, that is, that is actively trying to overtake the government and cause violence. And they also killed people and that's the thing I can't get past is that I'm firmly down this rabbit hole, sorry, but like, people died. And like, over a hundred police officers were injured by the, um, rule of law party. So, anyway. Ironically. Yeah. But, if you want to believe they're extremists, it was actually started by Antifa. Yeah, it's a false flag operation.
Malcolm:Everything is a false flag operation. Oh
Tana:my god. Anyway, so yeah, that was a little rabbit hole, but, um, but yeah, so I thought it was, uh, I was just looking right before we started, um, I was trying to find, because you had mentioned briefly to me, you're like, Oh, I want to talk about this. And then I, uh, Uh, I was like, Oh, I don't feel prepared to talk about this. And so I tried to look up like generational, yeah, generational attitudes and stuff like that. And, um, I found this article in the New Yorker that I thought it was going to be all like blasting Gen Z, but I thought it was funny because it was basically like, it's basically a sendup of people being like, Gen Z has no manners. And, um, one of these, one of the little sections says, Many people know that saying please, thank you, and you're welcome are important elements of politeness. In certain situations, however, alternate phrases are preferred. When placing your order at a drive thru restaurant, for example, it is polite to play Baroque or classical music from your car and kiss the server's hand. Then, of course, say, My compliments to Wendy, Her Majesty of New Jersey. Should be Majesty of Ohio because Wendy's was founded in Ohio, but whatever. Anyway, I just thought, but it's just such a send up because it's going back to this, back to this thing where it's like Why do we have all of these performative niceties?
Malcolm:I saw a thing a while ago where apparently older generations are mad at our generation for saying no problem. Why? I, because apparently just like the appropriate thing to say is you're welcome, but I don't understand because I feel like it's more polite to say no problem because instead of, because you're welcome is saying that the thank you was expected, but saying no problem is saying it was not a problem for me to complete this for you.
Tana:Well, and isn't, in Spanish, isn't this proper, proper response donada, which is like literally it's nothing. Yeah, I think so. So I imagine that those, it changes by language too, of like what the actual idiom is. I just don't understand. It's like
Malcolm:that's that person's way of saying, you're welcome. I don't understand why. That's weird. Why would
Tana:anybody have a problem with that?
Malcolm:I, uh, one thing that's creepy though is going to Chick fil a And they all say my pleasure, and that makes me uncomfortable.
Tana:Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Getting some homophobic chicken? Some hate chicken, yeah. Um, yeah, that's...
Malcolm:But I just find that creepy because all of them say it but
Tana:My pleasure. Yeah, I actually you know, what's funny is I always have been kind of creeped out by by that phrase I don't know why I think
Malcolm:it's the word pleasure. I think pleasure is just like that's not the context to use the word
Tana:I think I gained pleasure from scooping my
Malcolm:fries. Yeah, that's like handing someone to say it and it just being like it was a pleasure to help you. Yeah, yeah. It gave me pleasure.
Tana:Whatever your kink is man, like whatever your kink is. Oh, that's funny. I find that kind of creepy, but I also wouldn't. I don't want to yell at someone for saying that, like I just, uh, yeah, it's, I do have, I have had some difficulties, um, in generational. So there's a generation in between you and me, millennials. I have lots of millennial friends. And so what I've discovered is nobody leaves voicemails anymore, like unless it's a professional, like, doctor's office calling. Oh yeah,
Malcolm:because you can't just send your doctor a text. Right,
Tana:yeah. Well, actually, you can. I can text my dentist. Depends on the doctor. How about that? But, um, I, uh, so, I started to notice that at one point, and then I was like, Cool. I'd rather text anyway. Um, but I also noticed at one point people started saying to me, Oh, I called you all. And all they would do is call. Right. They didn't leave a voicemail. They didn't text, like give me a call when you have a second or anything like that. They just called and they're like, well, I called you. Didn't you see that? And I'm like, yeah. They're like, why don't you call me back? And I'm like, I You didn't tell me to. You didn't tell me to call you back. Like,
Malcolm:what? Yeah, no, I something.
Tana:Well, I mean, that's the other thing. Yeah, sometimes it's that. But also, like, maybe they solved the problem or, or whatever. I just, I just found it odd that that was the expectation. Like, why didn't you call me back? I saw
Malcolm:something where it said... Historians in the future won't know the difference between a booty call and a butt dial.
Tana:Yup, and that's why understanding context is important. Yeah, I've actually thought about a lot of those, too. I thought about it the other day because I was, um, Um, I still very much like to use print when possible. I like to write on things and if I'm reading a print book I can better remember it than if I'm reading it digitally. Which there's actually been studies to show that's true for a lot of people. Um, and, but I, what did I, I can't remember the exact thing that I commented but I was reading something in context for like writing a grant or something. And I... I wrote next to it a word and a question mark and the word in that context meant this kind of grant or something, right? It was like the name of a grant or whatever, but it was also like a common word. I really can't remember what it was. And I remember thinking, people would be so confused by this annotation. Like, like in the future or even just outside of me, they'd be like, why did they put this there? What does that mean? And like start down a rabbit hole. And I wonder how many times we've done that, right? Like especially as an English major, like how many times have we looked back on old manuscripts and been like, but they wrote this? What did they mean by that? And it was like, you know, oh my
Malcolm:gosh. Inside joke. Like the um, There's this post about, uh, Like, I Teacher telling the kid to like, find the symbolism in Shakespeare, pointing out that this door is red. Oh, uh huh. And it's like, this kid is just like, the door is just red. And then the teacher's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. It was like this whole comic strip. It was really funny of like this kid that like found out how to make this like time travel machine and everything like that went back in time and got Shakespeare brought him to the teacher's door She opened the door and then he's just like door is f ing red
Tana:Well speaking of Shakespeare and understanding, you know things In Romeo and Juliet. I don't remember which one it was Mercutio somebody It says, I bite, I bite my thumb at you. Right. And that was an insult that was like giving somebody the finger. Right. And like, you don't know that if you're unfamiliar with that, you know what I'm saying? Like,
Malcolm:it sounds like you're doing something weird, man. Yeah. So you'd be like, my pleasure.
Tana:That was kind of disturbing. Um, but anyway, yeah, so, and then there's things that we do in our society that are impolite in others. I know that there are some hand gestures we make that are, that are nice and fine in our society that are insulting in others. There's also
Malcolm:some things where like, um, Different groups, or mostly political groups, might use, uh, like, some kind of mythology or historical insignia to represent certain things, and so then those insignias that were, like, literally just part of, like, mythology or something like that become um,
Tana:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's so, it's so strange. So I, so, you know, kind of getting back to your original question, not just, not specifically about greeting, but about sort of like generational ideas of politeness in general. I kind of don't understand why people get their knickers in a twist about stuff. You know, because... You also gotta know... Especially if you don't know the context. Right. And, and a lot of times, you know, something, something happens and I, and I would, I get like a little, maybe initially offended. Right. And then I, sometimes I just sit there and be offended, but other times I'm like, okay, this person is in a different generation than I am. Like, what is that? You know, like, Maybe that's just not common, you know, for them. I will say, though, one thing that annoys the heck out of me is ghosting. Because that is just not cool. No, it's not. No, I, you know, especially in a business context, you know, I had that when I was looking for jobs. I had that happen multiple times where I would be like... In that like first round of top candidates and then I would just never hear again, you know, I think
Malcolm:another thing is um, I Feel like a lot of people in older generations feel like They need to make up more than our generation
Tana:does Like
Malcolm:if they had a falling out with someone a long time ago and they see them in the future Then they like are polite with them again Or I feel like my generation's just like no Stay away from me.
Tana:Okay, now that, we don't have enough time to get into this, but that gets into the whole, makes me think of the whole thing with um, uh, family relationships, and how there are more and more younger people who are just saying, I'm done with their parents.
Malcolm:Yeah, instead of trying to like keep that familial bond.
Tana:Yeah, and you know, I, I grew up, uh, believing, and I, I think this comes for me from a religious upbringing, that you like, it's like you forgive no matter what, right?
Malcolm:The whole blood is thicker than water.
Tana:Yeah, kind of. I mean, I know the rest of that negates that phrase.
Malcolm:Yeah, the full phrase is the blood of the covenant is stronger than the water of the womb,
Tana:right? Yes, yeah, the water of the womb, that's it, yeah. Which I'm like, that's so funny. It literally
Malcolm:just flips it
Tana:180. the other way. But, um, it was, but what I feel like didn't get talked about a lot at that time, and this, this was a time when... abuse was rampant and covered up and actually excused and all this stuff, um, is that people made forgiveness also mean you have to continue to put up with that thing. Yeah. Right? And so I think you can forgive someone. for abusing you, but it doesn't mean you stay in the abusive relationship. Like, why would you continue to be abused? And I feel like that's something in particular the boomer generation, um, is having difficulty with because for some of them, their children finally went, I'm, I'm done, I'm going no contact with you because you abused me, you never apologized for it, and every time we get together, you abuse me some more. Like yeah, you know, maybe not physically anymore but verbally and emotionally. Or
Malcolm:they'll say stuff to try and like just manipulate you to come back and do things. Right. Yeah.
Tana:Yeah. And and I feel like there's a lot of people in older generations who still are like Well, that's family. You have to stay, you know, and I'm, and I'm thinking, no, it's family. So you shouldn't treat people that way. That's not, you know, it doesn't work that you just get to treat people however, and they have to stick around.
Malcolm:Yeah. You shouldn't just say like, Oh, I'm going to die soon. So you need to hang out with your dear old dad.
Tana:Not if you have a bad relationship. If you have a good relationship, I would hope you would want to spend more time with someone.
Malcolm:I mean, if someone says something like that, like that's just, that's not okay.
Tana:Yeah, yeah, so lots of, lots of, lots of differences, um, between the generations on those things. Hey, just don't be a dick. I think that's, uh, that's good advice. Yeah. That's very wise.
Malcolm:It's very hard for a lot of people to do, though. Yeah. I do not understand
Tana:why. Well, I mean, I think we all do jerky things from time to time. Mmm, jerky. But, but, yeah, just sort of being a jerk and then expecting everyone else to be fine with it. Yeah, I said there's a difference
Malcolm:between, like, being a jerk in the moment and just being a jerk. Well, yeah. Yeah. Like, I mean, there's plenty of times where it's like, I'm hanging out with my friends and someone says something that's just, like, not okay. Yeah. But that, if, if they say that like every time, then that means the person's not okay. But if they say it like once, maybe they just like had an impulsive thought or something like that. Oh, sure, yeah. And they, and they said, we've all done it. Oh, yeah.
Tana:Like, it's... I've said some stuff.
Malcolm:I've done some shit. Can't come back from it.
Tana:Yeah, which is what gets back to my, my thought that you can be a polite asshole, but you can't be a kind asshole. Yeah. You know, um, if you're, if you're kind, you can say a jerky thing here or there, but that doesn't make you an asshole. Yes. You know? Yeah. So, yeah. Anyway, I don't think we solved any generational issues on that, but... Can we ever? Yeah, that's an excellent existential question. Um, but I mean, I don't know. I hope if you're listening that maybe helped you think through some of these things if you're having trouble with getting frustrated with someone for not politely saying hello when they pass you in the park. Yes. Yeah. Well, well, time to go.