How complicated is transitioning from high school to adulthood? How can parents best prepare their children for this difficult time in life? In this episode, Tana and Malcolm welcome guests Don (Tana's husband and Malcolm's dad) and Shelby (Malcolm's girlfriend and Cat Mom to Poppy) to discuss how difficult these transitions were, the challenges of COVID in the last days of high school and first days of college, and more.
How complicated is transitioning from high school to adulthood? How can parents best prepare their children for this difficult time in life? In this episode, Tana and Malcolm welcome guests Don (Tana's husband and Malcolm's dad) and Shelby (Malcolm's girlfriend and Cat Mom to Poppy) to discuss how difficult these transitions were, the challenges of COVID in the last days of high school and first days of college, and more.
Hi and welcome to What's the name of your podcast do you so
Malcolm:how was your day?
Don:So how was your day Malcolm? Or is it if I'd say Malcolm does that ruin it? I have to say
Malcolm:just how was your day? No, it's fine We're good. So how was your day? It was fine. We haven't really done much today. I think this
Don:is why I'm not invited on the podcast.
Malcolm:But today we are here with my girlfriend Shelby. Hi! And also my dad. Hello!
Tana:Don. Don. Yeah. My husband. Told. In case anybody didn't figure out that whole relational thing.
Malcolm:I mean, it happens. Yeah, it's not
Don:a
Malcolm:necessary outcome.
Tana:It's true. It's true. Yeah. But I've talked about you in the video. Anyway, sorry. Yeah. So. Yeah. Right.
Malcolm:So what are we talking about today? I guess we're talking about the transition from being a. Kid to an adult. Oh, I'm
Don:gonna learn so much.
Malcolm:Why, did you not transition from a kid to an adult? Never transitioned. Does that show?
Tana:Yeah. That tracks. That tracks.
Shelby:What if I've always been an adult? I was just a mini
Tana:adult. That's, uh, that's what a lot of people said about me. They were like, you're always, like, 40 years old. I mean, now I'm beyond that, but like, yeah, even when I was 20, I was 40. Yeah. That's weird. Well. I've always just been mature. Mature. Mature. If
Malcolm:you want to sound it, don't say it like that.
Tana:So anyway, yes, so last time, um, we talked about some parenting stuff and we sort of briefly mentioned the, um, Transition time from like being a teenager to being a college student, to being an adult. Um, I mean technically you're an adult when you're 18, but like that whole kind of transition period of, um, growing up, gaining more independence, sometimes separating from your parents.
Don:So wait, I wasn't invited onto the podcast about parenting, but I was invited onto the podcast. Nope.
Tana:You're, you're, this is parenting part two.
Malcolm:Oh, okay. It's so good.
Tana:Yeah, there you go. The sequel. You were a new addition, a new character introduced in the sequel. Everyone's
Don:disappointed with a new character
Malcolm:introduced in
Tana:the second movie is always the bad one, then the third one is good, so. Yeah,
Malcolm:if you come back in, if you come back in Parenting Part 3. Yeah,
Tana:then it'll be like amazing. Nailed it. Yeah. Alright. So, so
Malcolm:anyway. So make it your objective to make this one bad. Okay. Shall
Shelby:we do that too? I'll mess everything
Tana:up.
Malcolm:It's okay, you do that anyway. Rude!
Don:Wow, and that's recorded. Dang.
Malcolm:Dang.
Tana:That's rude.
Malcolm:So, actually
Don:I think we should change this podcast to, um, relationship.
Malcolm:Welcome to couples therapy.
Tana:Yes, yes, oh my gosh. Yeah, so anyway, we talked a little bit about, um, Well, you had actually specifically mentioned COVID for, for you, cause that's, that's been a part of like your transition from graduating high school. Now, I mean, um, you know, Shelby, you graduated in 2020, right? And then you graduated in 2021, so you guys were kind of like right in the thick of it. Yeah. Each of you, I mean, you more so Shelby. It's
Malcolm:kind of interesting the differences, like we've talked a lot in the past about just the differences of us being one year apart. Yeah. From stuff, especially around
Tana:COVID. Yeah, yeah. I mean, because, yeah, 2020 was the full on lockdown. We didn't know what was going on. Everybody was washing their potato chip bags when they got back from the grocery store.
Malcolm:Now Poppy's on
Tana:the podcast. Oh, yeah. Now the cat, if you, yeah, she's playing with the chair. Yeah, she's sittin in the last
Malcolm:chair in
Tana:here, so. She wanted to be part of this one. Yes. So, um, so anyway, so yeah, I can imagine that kind of also, I mean, you don't have anything to compare to. Like, you don't have, like, oh, when we graduated from high school last time, it wasn't like, like, you know, it was like, that's your only reality.
Malcolm:It was, like, lucky for us to have a graduation. Like, we were right on the cusp of not having a graduation at all for our school, at least.
Tana:Yeah, you had limited, limited attendance. I,
Shelby:I still had a graduation. I mean, I only had, like, four people I could have to come to my graduation, so it was very slim. Sorry the cat is distracted.
Tana:I know, she's, she's being really weird. Well, actually, Malcolm had that too, even in 2021. We were only allowed to have, I forget how many guests we were allowed to have, but. I don't remember. Um, I think it just ended up being the two of us and then my parents. I think that was it. I'm surprised
Malcolm:that with you graduating in 2020, you were even allowed to have an in person ceremony at
Tana:all. Yeah, that's what was surprising.
Shelby:Yeah, it was outside and everyone had to be separated. That's why there was only 15 people and it was on the track. So everyone had their own little space. And then, um, all of the guests got to sit in the bleachers over track, so they were all outside. And everyone had to obviously wear a
Tana:mask, so. And you said there were 15 students at a time, like, graduating? Yeah,
Shelby:every half an hour they would usually do in increments. I
Malcolm:don't remember what they did for our school for the previous graduating year. I think it might have just been an online...
Tana:Oh, I don't remember either.
Malcolm:I think it might have just been an online
Tana:graduation. I mean, a lot of them, a lot of people did that.
Malcolm:Yeah.
Don:So do you feel like that, with COVID, like somehow... Like, stunted your transition from teenager to adult.
Malcolm:No, I think the years still went past in the same time frame.
Tana:Smartass.
Shelby:Emotionally. At least for me, it definitely did. It did. Because I was expecting, I was expecting, because like March, I still had two years, I mean two years, two months of high school left. So I was still expecting to have More high school, and then I also had a class in high school that still helped you transition into college And I still didn't learn everything that I needed to learn from that so kind of March I still had high school and then April they were telling me that okay now you just have to get prepared for college And that's it and you're an adult now was kind of Unexpected and I still was expected to figure out everything on my own Even though, like, I wasn't prepared. Yeah. Yeah. It's been difficult.
Tana:Seems stressful. Yes,
Shelby:it was very stressful.
Tana:Our,
Malcolm:our school is way too hands on. Like, it was mandatory that I met with my college counselor, which was funny because I just didn't do it anyways. So, therefore, it's, like, I don't understand what the mandatory meant, because there was no punishment for not going, and I still did all of my...
Tana:You figured it out.
Malcolm:I still did all of my college admissions stuff, and submitted it to UT, and got in, and everything, and I just didn't attend. I also really disliked her. She was very mean to, like, other people I knew in the
Tana:school, so... Oh, I remember you talking about that.
Malcolm:Yeah, so I just didn't want to deal with that, um, and she also, like, at one point I did try going on to a meeting with her, and she was doing something that, like, wasn't allowed to be done at the school, which is using the school gym past hours, and she was there with her daughter, like, using this, this school gym, and I was like, you do realize that you're We're literally videoing against what you're allowed to be doing right now.
Don:So what I was thinking when I asked that question was that more so extracurricular, not really school stuff, right? Like I was thinking like, one of the things I've often thought for you particularly, Malcolm, was that you didn't get the opportunity, like your senior year, to go out. In the evening, like your buddies pick you up and you guys go someplace. You didn't get to go do things that were the beginning moments of Expressing your autonomy, right? Like because you just were home
Malcolm:So like I think I think that course corrected itself when I went to UT because I went to UT with two of my friends and then every or like a couple days out of the week After we were done with our classes, we would go out and do something.
Tana:So yeah, it's right You had like regular Jeds, but I was like thinking like that,
Don:but that's a year delayed Yeah, that's true. Right, like that was you the first time kind of experiencing doing that was your freshman year of college as opposed to like your junior or senior year of high school.
Malcolm:I actually don't think that impacted me much. I think it was not working that impacted me. Yes,
Don:that would be
Malcolm:another one that I was curious about. So, like I think, because I mean for me especially with being able to play games all the time from home the entirety during COVID with my friends, I think I got, Like, although that was something I already did, I was still able to, like, maintain a strong connection with my friends through that. But, with the job, I never really worked up a good work ethic from earlier on, and so then I think it was a lot harder to get into a job then, after that. Mm. Um, and now I feel fine with it, but... He says as he's unemployed. Yes. But, um, yeah, I don't, I don't stand against, or I don't, I don't stand with discrimination still, so I still quit my jobs, but I, uh, I'm at least like not trying to get out of stuff or something like that at work anymore, so.
Shelby:Hmm. I was never social to begin with, so it never really bugged me to be honest.
Tana:I was at home studying. You're like, yay, more time to read. Yeah, pretty much.
Malcolm:Yeah,
Don:I'm just, I'm kind of curious like if, what kind of impact, even if you're not social, the fact that you didn't have a
Malcolm:choice, right?
Shelby:Yeah, I did miss that choice because I did, I, even though I wasn't social, I did miss not being able to, like, hang out with my friends at school. And I didn't realize how much I relied on that, even though I didn't hang out with them after school.
Malcolm:I actually kind of, kind of agree with that because it was, uh, a big thing for us at MV. Like, we would, anytime that we had a study break, or it was during our lunch, or it was the morning, or evening, or anything like that, Um, my friends and I were either in the studio where I was doing my podcast stuff, look where that got me, um, or we were in the conference room just hanging out and, or like playing chess or playing games with each other, or rarely doing homework, but, but like I, I've always missed that, like since COVID started, cause we never really, I think we got to do it like once more. Which was kind of like a last hurrah thing. Yeah. Um, but, Yeah, there's a lot of like memories that I had and my brain just is automatically like yeah, that happened junior year. Because that was sophomore year when it actually happened. But since COVID happened it just totally like moved to the timeline of when that stuff happened up. I have like next to no recollection of COVID school. COVID school. Anytime that I go back and think about high school, I like never think of memories from during COVID. I almost always think of memories that took place in the, in the classes or in between classes or something like that.
Tana:Hmm. Well, I mean, that makes sense because you're going to associate the school with a physical building. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's um, I, I feel it's interesting because For me to look at people who are graduating high school and people who were entering college, I see what was missed out on. You know what I mean? Like there's almost like a, Oh, I feel so bad because they've missed this sort of like rite of passage, but I don't know how much like it affects you since you've never experienced it. You know what I'm saying? Like if, yeah, if you feel it or. Yeah,
Malcolm:I don't
Don:know. Yeah, I almost wonder more Shelby in your case. It feels like it would be that would be more true because You spent half the year preparing for graduation in school, right? And then all the graduation plans got scraped Whereas that wasn't your experience. No, it wasn't. So I wonder if you know Shelby's Your timing of graduation is probably the group that was impacted
Malcolm:the most, because,
Don:you know, you had plans for what you were going to do on spring break, you had plans for what you were going to do at graduation,
Tana:and... Well, and your senior year is, like, it's senior year! Like, there's all the different things that, like... But his senior
Don:year was at home, so he, that was his normalcy, right?
Malcolm:Yeah, he expected
Shelby:it to
Malcolm:be like that. But
Don:Shelby began the year in the school with, like, you know... This is the year, we're seniors, you know, roaming the hallways, shoving kids in the lockers, like I know you
Malcolm:did, Shelby. I'm sure Shelby did that.
Shelby:Oh yeah, obviously. But, yeah, I mean, What a strong man. I did not, because I'm a procrastinator, but a lot of people had already bought their prom dresses, or their prom outfits too, and they never got to wear them and stuff like that. So, um, I brought my graduation dress around that time, but obviously I still got to wear it, so. Yeah, yeah. But we just had our graduation in July instead of like late May. So, but yeah, I think a lot of, it's still, it was very frustrating at the time, but I've obviously gotten over it now, um, but definitely seeing other people, um, cause there were some schools in 2021 and obviously in 2022, um, that were able to do things. That I was not able to do and I got very frustrated during those times But I've obviously gotten over it now since I'm more of an adult, but yeah, yeah
Tana:Yeah, it's hard when you yeah, when you see people, I mean I even felt a little like Disappointed that I didn't I didn't go to my graduation for my PhD Because that would be like a whole hooding ceremony and it's like a big deal and you know but that was like A choice, sort of. It was, you know, I can't afford to do it, but.
Malcolm:I'm also wondering how, like, the start of college was, like, the actual transition from high school to college was for you. Because, for me, it was just, like, going back to school, but at a new campus. And, like, having to wear a mask. Oh, yeah. Which is, like, which is, for me, is, like, nothing. Like, it just, it was just, like, going back to school, basically, on, on a different, at a different school. Which I'm also used to, because I've been to so many different schools. Right. But, um. like, yeah, we would just get an email like, oh, Toledo's back in the red, so you need to wear a mask for this week. Mm-Hmm. That was the only real covid thing. Did you
Tana:have in-person classes
Shelby:when you started? No, I had all online, which Wow. Was kind of difficult because a lot of my college classes were self-paced since they were the online. So I had to figure out like how being in college is and also, um. Like how it's self pacing, like how to do that for myself because I am a procrastinator so I was not very good at it at first but I started to learn. I also didn't get to go to the school that I wanted to go to. I wanted to go to Central Michigan University but they said that they still had school open like it was still online school but you had to stay in the dorms but you couldn't leave the dorms. Oh, and yeah, and so it was just like, there was just no reason. Come be a prisoner. Yeah, there was just no reason, like, you could leave to like, go get food and stuff, but that was it. You couldn't like, actually hang out with people, um, so there just wasn't any reason for me to go, and so then I just went to community college, and I kind of I wish I would have been able to do the full four years of university, um, but it also was cheaper, so. That's true. In the long run, it actually helped me out.
Tana:Yeah. Yeah, but that's rough. Like, your first year of college, like, you're, you're, you're, like, you're, even if you live at home, you're, like, still somewhat freer, you know, um, and you're, you've left all your. High school friends behind so you can decide, like, am I the same person? Like, do I want to meet different kind of people? Like, you know, it's like a really important social time. And so, yeah, it kind of sucks that
Shelby:you missed that. Yeah, it was very isolating as well because I didn't know anyone from my college. And I was only hanging out with, I couldn't really hang out with my one best friend because, um, of like social distancing stuff. Um, so I kind of just had to sit in my room all day. And do schoolwork. And then, um, my parents were still kind of going to work. So then they would, they wouldn't be home. So I couldn't like in between classes go and see my parents or something. Right. So I was kind of just by myself a lot the first two years of college.
Tana:Oh, wow. That sucks. I'm sorry. That's okay. Well, outside of COVID, like, how did y'all feel about sort of that? Yeah. Do you even feel
Malcolm:like you're an adult yet? Right.
Don:sort of, because I still don't often feel like I'm an
Malcolm:adult.
Tana:I do now. I think it took me till like I was 42 I was like, oh, I'm no longer playing at having at house. I am, you know,
Malcolm:for me it's a sort of just because, you know, I'm out of school now. So, and automatically my, my brain's association is adult means you're not in school. So, now that I'm not going to college, I'm just... That
Tana:makes you feel more of an adult?
Malcolm:Yeah. Hmm. Because I, I feel like I don't have any responsibilities other than to myself and, um, the people I choose to feel responsible for. Which, in my brain, is an adult thing. Because I feel like school is just like its own separate entity where, you know, you need to go to school as a kid to learn how to be an adult. Which also feels weird because they don't teach you anything about being an adult, but...
Don:So let me test this theory. You and Shelby have been dating for how long now? Year and a half, almost. Shelby, you're starting back to school. Yep. So, you are an adult dating... Don't
Malcolm:do that. Don't do that.
Tana:But she's older than you, so... Yeah. That helps.
Shelby:I'm also going to be in junior college, so... Yeah. I don't feel like I'm old enough to drink alcohol or buy alcohol at all. Even though you are? Even though I am. Even though I'm 21. I still am like, I would love to try this, and then I'm like, oh, well you can actually try it. You don't have to just be like, oh, I would love to.
Tana:You still
Malcolm:can't rent a
Tana:car though. Yeah. Damn. That's such a weird, that's like such a weird delayed thing.
Malcolm:I would have, I would have just assumed it's like how long you've had a license. Because that makes more sense than someone who could practice put off getting a license for until they're 25 get a license then rent a car And then crash the car
Don:Yeah, I'm guessing it's all data analytics It's by the age of 25 the number of accidents that an individual has way down drops tremendously
Malcolm:And I mean,
Shelby:yeah, you've been driving since you were 16 That's almost 10 years of
Malcolm:driving That's why I would assume it would be based on how long you've had most
Don:people when they rent a car It's not for local They're taking it away
Malcolm:somewhere, so. Maybe it's like, it should be like the first time that you renew your license or something.
Shelby:It's not like a lot of people anyways that are around our age can even afford to go on trips. Anyhow, so.
Tana:Right. Right. Well, most people your age can't afford to do much of anything because everything is ridiculously expensive. Yes. Yeah. And it's way more of your indisposable income than it was for every previous generation. This is
Malcolm:why it was great going to a rich kid's school because they would just take me on their trips with them. Oh, I know.
Tana:You had some of the most awesome, like, we were, we were...
Malcolm:None of which we provided. We never provided, like...
Tana:Honestly, like, we, you got, we were amazed. We're like, he's living a better life than we are. And then, like, even when you were growing up and you were doing, like, the modeling for that toy catalog, and then you would get toys. I'm like, he's even, like, paying for his own
Malcolm:toys. It
Don:was so good that you
Malcolm:were doing that because... I've been an adult since I was a toddler. Yeah, you've been working it, man. Your
Don:Christmases would have been garbage had you not been modeling
Malcolm:for a toy. I would have been fine. But you got some awesome stuff when you were doing that. Yeah,
Don:you had so much Thomas the
Malcolm:Train stuff. Oh yeah, you did. Oh, I bet I... Yeah. Yeah. I love Thomas the Train.
Tana:Yeah.
Don:So, is there anything that you do today that was something that you did when you were like still in high school, but now feels adult? Right, like that, that like, now, now there's something different about it, like something is like shifted. Like I can't even think about like a job, like a part time job when you're in high school feels so like, yeah, I can bolt anytime
Malcolm:I want. I feel like hanging out with friends and, and, not school, and jobs are very, but much like that, because instead of having to communicate Trying to communicate with your own parents to communicate with other parents to get stuff to go on, you just be like, Hey, want to do something? Yeah, sure. I'm free this day. Yeah, and also, we're Yeah, we're not as, uh, I don't know, I feel like we're both more free and less free to do stuff all the time. Well, yeah,
Shelby:cuz now you have a job, and you have to go to that job more. So you have less time to hang out with your
Tana:friends.
Malcolm:Well, I don't know. See, that's the thing is I feel like there's somehow less time, even though I spent more time in school than I, than I would, you know. Yeah, school takes up a lot of time. And then you have to do homework. Yeah, school's 40 hours a week during the weekdays, and then you
Tana:have to do homework. Yeah. I
Shelby:still feel like I got so much more done when I was in school. Like I was in high school, and then I was in band. And I was in a marching band, and I was in an honor band after class as well, and then I had to do football games, and then, um, before the football games... It's just because there's a lot of stuff you're forced to do. Yeah, and before football games I still had a part time job, and I ran track and cross country. So I don't know how I did all of that within one day, but...
Malcolm:I think, I
Don:think another piece with high school that, that might also make it feel like it, you don't have as much time today as what you did in high school is that You have built in friend time. Yeah. Because you're at school with friends. Like even if you were to see them in the hallway in between class or it was at band practice or whatever, you still were having kind of social engagement with people. Whereas now, though often times we end up friends with people we work with or we start dating them.
Malcolm:Yeah, that's true. I wonder who you're talking about. Um,
Don:so you, so you can still have that built in, but also a lot of times you don't, right? So you have to set aside unique, specific time for friends that you didn't before because it was built into your schedule. That's true. Is there any other things other than like work or, and hanging out with friends?
Shelby:I think even school is different for me. Like, um, Same here.
Malcolm:I don't go to it. Yeah, I mean, that's fair.
Shelby:But I feel like me going to even the community college and now starting university next semester, I feel like, one, I obviously get more choices. Because you get to choose your major and then from there you get to choose your classes. Yeah. But I also just, it just all feels grown up in general, like, I have to buy my own supplies, and I have to buy my books, and then I have to drive my adult car to the adult
Tana:school. Rather than your kiddie car? Yeah, yeah, right?
Malcolm:I'm just imagining one of those motorized, like, jeeps
Tana:or something. Yeah. That's what the little kid in the Liberty commercial. Or like an
Malcolm:electric unicycle. Oh,
Tana:yeah. Or one of those, yeah. Yeah. Who would
Malcolm:ride one of those as an adult?
Tana:Who knows? I don't know. That's
Shelby:crazy.
Tana:Yeah, I, I get that. I, it's, I think, I think what can be tough, and I'd be kind of curious to hear what, um, how you feel about this with us, Malcolm, is the, I lost my train of thought. You pouring your bourbon distracted me. Oh, um. I think there's lots of different, ways that people feel prepared for either college or work after high school based on how much their parents gave them freedom when they were a teenager. Because I think there's very, like, helicoptery parents who even, like, they'll do stuff for their kids even if the kids are able to do it themselves, and then there's the ones who are, like, kicking you out of the nest and seeing if you fly instead
Malcolm:of hitting the ground. I remember
Don:seeing you really bloom when we extended the length of the chain
Malcolm:to your desk.
Tana:Right. But I mean you always were asserting a certain level of independence., Like I remember when you were in first grade, you decided that you wanted to start packing your own lunches. And so you would wake up before me And, which isn't that hard to do, admittedly, and you'd go downstairs and you'd pack your whole lunch and you'd be ready to go before, you know, before I was even ready to, yeah.
Don:Well, I, I remember even in like third and fourth grade, he'd set his alarm for like, Uh, two hours earlier than school and I'm like, why are you getting up so early? He's like, he's like, I want to get up and be able to relax and enjoy myself
Malcolm:before I go to school.
Tana:And then you were, when we, when we lived in Blacksburg and that like, um, play area was like right outside our back door, you decided you wanted to go out and run and then, um, do Pull ups on the bars. You're like, I want to get my exercise before school and so you'd set your alarm early and you'd go out and like run laps and then.
Malcolm:You still do that, don't you? Right, every morning. Oh yeah, 100%. I'm so fit. I, uh, I get up. Yeah. You get up. Mission accomplished. Like half of the mornings I get up. Right,
Tana:yeah. But no, I feel like you always kind of were pushing a little more for that, uh, Like you were always kind of pushing a little bit more than, rather than just being like, I'm a kid, I'm gonna let you do everything for me. It's cause you guys always let me. Well we also were, like we talked about last time about how we we didn't let you win when we played games. We were like, he's gotta learn sometime.
Malcolm:You were so
Don:good though that I had to cheat a lot.
Tana:Although there was that one game you used to play with your friends where you just change the rules every time so you
Malcolm:won. Yeah. Oh is that the Star
Don:Wars game? The game with Lego minifigs that you made? That each part of the minifig counted as a hit point, and so eventually you would just have Darth Vader walking around and Luke Skywalker's head on the board.
Malcolm:That's funny. Because Luke was down
Don:to one hit point, so it was just his
Malcolm:head on the board. That's genius Lego game, I don't know what you're talking about. I thought it
Don:was great, and my favorite part was that all of your characters would have, like, 27 accessories, so each of your characters had 27 hit points, and mine was, like, had two arms, a legs.
Malcolm:A legs. It's true. A legs.
Don:On a minifig, it is a legs. That is true. Oh. And a head and a torso. So mine all had like five hit points and yours had like a lightsaber, a cape, a hat, a monocle. A
Malcolm:monocle. There's only one way to win and that is to just cheat.
Tana:Nice. Anyway, so yeah, so I'd be curious personally, as you're one of your parents, um, like, how you felt about that kind of, like, did adulthood, like, smack you in the face, or? What if I'm not curious about his answer on this? You can, um, put your fingers in your ears and sing a song, I don't know.
Malcolm:Alright, tell us Malcolm. No pressure. Why is everyone looking at me? Could you just re ask the question?
Tana:I don't know. It was a very long drawn out. I think
Don:what she was getting at was How did we do? To prepare you for adulthood. Rate us as
Malcolm:parents! Or You
Don:know, did we do Did you feel like you were able to enter into adulthood with some amount of? confidence or has it been anxiety inducing? Yeah, I
Malcolm:think for me it's felt mostly seamless. Like, yes!
Don:I mean, I'll high five you, but I'm not sure. I mean, we haven't seen him actually adult for very long. He might be really bad at it.
Tana:I was actually just telling Shelby today that I was like, Malcolm's really good at adulting since he met you.
Malcolm:What's that supposed to mean?
Don:Well, in all fairness, you were barely
Malcolm:an adult when you met her. That's
Shelby:true. Yeah, and also, I'm very organized as like, oh, I plan out the meals, and I do the, like, and I make a list for grocery shopping, and I do all this and that, and like, I plan out what I'm gonna clean and stuff like that. I think that's kind of what
Tana:she does. I don't think like... I don't plan anything. Yeah, you don't plan, but you follow her plan. Yes. Which is going along for the ride. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Malcolm:Um, I will follow structure, I just don't like making structure.
Tana:You didn't follow my
Malcolm:structure! No, I, I just... No, I just follow her structure, I should say. That's it. Um, no, I just... I mean, you guys had already had me doing chores. You guys already had me figuring out my, or helped me figure out my, like, finance stuff before. So, I
Tana:mean... I have to say that's something I've been really impressed with you. Like, you, you really took to, like, managing your money well. Yeah. You save, you know, you decide what you want. That's the thing I have structure for, is finances. And that's what
Shelby:he's taught me structure for. Oh, well,
Tana:see? Perfectly matched. There you go. But, no, that's, that's been really impressive. If she likes
Malcolm:olives, I don't like olives.
Tana:The olive theory. Yeah.
Malcolm:But yeah, I've just, I've been keeping up to date with all of our finances and stuff, and updating it, and I, really the, the main things that I don't know at all are cars or a house, so, like, I, for the most part I don't know how a lot of, like, insurance type stuff works because of that. Like, I don't have a lot of insurance to deal with. So, I think there's gonna be a lot of... those aren't niche things, but those are like the next steps, I
Tana:guess. Yeah, you know, that's one of those things that is always difficult, I think, as a parent is understanding, like, that I know things you don't know. And that you don't just like naturally, but you don't like just naturally absorb these things about life through like osmosis. You know what I mean? Like, like somebody has to. Tell you at some point, you know, things. And so, and it's hard like they do. Like, it's hard to know, like to think like, oh, I know this thing'cause you know, it, like, it's just part of, and you don't think, oh, where would Malcolm have learned this in school? Is there a class called Insurance 1 0 1? Like no. Yeah. You know, so it's, I think that's a, um, I think that's a difficult thing. Everything every parent struggles with, because. There are certain things you think, oh, I should teach my kid about finances, and I should, you know, usually the car thing comes up, you know, because you have a license or whatever, and, you know, maybe you talk about, like, school and stuff, but, yeah, there's like a bunch of other stuff that you don't necessarily think to talk about. Yep. It just doesn't occur to you that,
Malcolm:yeah. I mean, and some of the stuff is just, like, ever changing, as well. Oh, sure, yeah. So, I mean, you can teach things, but you can't... Teach, like, if you taught me how your insurance works, when I get insurance, it's gonna be different how it works. Like, even if it's just by numbers, it's still...
Tana:I mean, the basics would be the same. Yeah. But, yeah, there, definitely when it comes to, like, technology constantly changing, um, there's probably more things you could teach me about, you know, how to do things with technology, for sure. But,
Malcolm:yeah. Yeah, I... I think one of the, actually, most annoying things about becoming an adult is the level of autonomy that other adults have, which is like creating these trends or something that's popular or anything like that. That just isn't helpful at all. So when you're trying to do research on something, you get all of these random things. Oh. Of, um, Things that other people have tried to do or people have like passed themselves as like knowing what they're talking about. But they don't really. Yeah, there's
Don:and today there's a huge guru. Movement. Oh, yeah. Like where everyone's a guru. Like you want to know this? Oh, sign up for my class. 50 and you get seven lessons on how to better manage your bubblegum collection.
Malcolm:Like nothing, yeah, nothing feels Straightforward. on the internet at all when it comes to adulting stuff. You know, that's, that's
Don:really interesting because I think when you're, you know, a child and less as you become a teenager, right? But when you're a child, that's, that's the parent's job to as best as they can be the truth tellers and the one that sorts through kind of... The, all the, the clutter. The BS. Yeah, like the clutter of information to give you that we as a household type thinking, we as a household hold these values and this perspective on this and kind of give you a North Star so to speak to, to aim at. And then that's a really interesting observation Malcolm because I bet you it is much more complicated especially today because today we have access to like A thousand times more information per minute than we had in like an entire week when I was growing up, right? Um, just, just having a smartphone in your pocket, right? I, I had to sit around my, my phone at home waiting for a friend to call it so I knew where to meet them. Or if they didn't, then we would drive to like two or three locations hoping to catch them somewhere. Yeah,
Malcolm:and we were just talking about this the other day where, cause we were talking about health stuff. There's so many, like, trendy diets. Diets can't be trendy. They... Your body remains the same. Your, your body isn't on a trend, so diets can't be on a trend. Like, there can't be a new... Like,
Tana:people are always trying to find some, like, new way and promise that it'll help you lose weight or feel better or whatever,
Don:you know? But a trend implies that it's gonna go away, right? Like, yeah, and that doesn't make any sense. If the trend is wearing manprees like I like to do, although that's probably never been a trend. Anyhow... That eventually the idea of a trend is it'll stop being trendy. Yeah, right. And so to call something a trendy diet is kind of funny. Well, it's implying
Tana:It's not gonna yeah. Well, and the other thing is like you to complicate matters So you have everybody thinks they're a guru, right? And so some people may be really well meaning but they Um, give maybe poor information or whatever because they don't know any better, but then you have the people who are trying to be purposefully misleading. That's why,
Malcolm:like, going back to a previous episode that we talked about, that I, that's why I like my news and information with bias. Don't change the information with bias, but provide the information and list your bias because there's a strong chance that Like if you say that, oh, this food has done wonders for me, um, it's different than saying, oh, this food does wonders to your body.
Tana:Oh, so you're saying, like, knowing it's their opinion,
Malcolm:or... Yeah, so, like, I think so many people, the reason why there's the whole guru thing is that people are passing off what works for them as,
Tana:like, facts. But sometimes it's not even that, it's, like, that they're being paid. Yeah, that too. And there's more movement now to get things to be, like, oh, if you're being paid you have to say... Like, oh, this is a paid sponsorship, but it didn't used to be that clear. And so, a celebrity would be like, this is amazing, and they don't even use it. But,
Malcolm:you know. I just wish we had never found that level of exploitation for money because I bet you that the main stuff that you need to know for health and the best diets and everything have been proven way before the internet.
Tana:Oh, and lots of, and actually lots of health leaders will Be like, nothing's changed, you know, you need your vegetables, you need fiber, you need protein, like, Limit carbs and sugar and fat, like, you know, like, it's, it, they're just, yeah, they're like, it's the same. I thought you were gonna say something. I was gonna
Malcolm:say that's
Don:your truth. That's not my truth.
Malcolm:What's your truth?
Don:I don't, I didn't have anything, that's why I didn't say anything.
Malcolm:Oh, gotcha, I put you on the spot.
Tana:Yeah, I'm just forcing him into it. Yeah, sorry. Gosh. Man, his truth is bourbon.
Don:So, my experience into adulthood was very different. Um, mine was, I was 17, the day after I graduated high school, I was living on my own, on the beach. Like, it was instant. I, I had no... No, like, grace period into it. And it was like, I wake up the next morning and I'm on my way to the beach. I don't have a place to live. I sleep in my car. We happen to get lucky, find a place and, you know, we stay there for a few weeks then the few weeks are up and we can't stay there anymore. And everything about that was like, just survival. Right? Yeah. It was like we had to find a way to survive. Now, we probably weren't the brightest because we decided to try to survive on the beach, which couldn't be more expensive, but was fun. Um, but I had to learn everything instantly. Yeah. And I was working two or three jobs just to make sure that I could pay my rent, because not paying my rent... Didn't mean I had, you know, someone was mad at me not paying my rent meant I was nowhere to go. I was, I was homeless, right? So, like, to me, you know, when you guys said that this was gonna be your topic today, I find this really interesting because my experience into adulthood
Malcolm:was, like, a crash course. It was
Don:zero to sixty instantaneously. Yeah. But part of what concerns me, um, is, with me, that worked out. But I would say as parenting someone making that transition and not trying, like it's very easy not to do that to you, right? Like that, that's an easy bar to get over. Improve upon
Malcolm:the parenting I experienced. Improving upon the kicked
Tana:out of the house.
Malcolm:Yeah, improving
Don:upon that experience is pretty simple, but I'd say this has been the most difficult period of parenting. of my life. Like everything else in parenting was easy. This one, I have no clue what I'm doing because it's a balance of trying to respect your autonomy, your decision making, but still having really excellent advice I'd like to offer you. Um, and, uh, and Standing there watching in moments that I think that you could be making a mistake or that you could be making a really big awesome move that you're not recognizing and I want to celebrate it as it's happening, right? Like all of these things but I have no idea what I'm supposed to do. Like I don't know how to parent you well in that space. And it's been really, really fascinating and, and
Malcolm:difficult. Yeah,
Tana:I know. I had to, I had to make deliberate decisions. Whereas in the past, I feel like a lot of parenting was like instinct, like based on instinct. Um, which was grounded in the values that we had and we had discussed in general about like how we wanted to raise you. Don't stick a fork in that. Don't. Well, I mean, there's that. But, but, but I think, I honestly think that a lot of parents kind of go on instinct in certain situations and they think their instinct, everybody thinks their instinct is good, right? Yeah. But a lot of times your instinct is based on, Oh, this was a child that I need to guide through everything. But now, okay, now they're becoming an adult and you need to back off. And parents don't, I don't, I don't even think like a lot of parents do like throughout the rest of their entire lives, like back off, back off, like just stop parenting your, your adult children or whatever. And so I had to, I had to make a very deliberate decision and in, in multiple instances to go. I'm not going to say anything about that. Even if I thought you were like making a mistake, it was nothing that was going to be earth shattering and ruin your life. And I didn't want to be like, I didn't want to be contrarian. I don't want to, I don't want to be constantly negative to you to the point where you never want to tell me anything. And then the other thing was like, Well, that just because I don't think this is a good decision doesn't mean it's not a good decision. So just I'm just now I'm
Malcolm:curious But I already told you like you currently don't have a job
Don:Yeah, right and you want to give a notice and I was like line up another job before you give a notice And you're like, nah, it'll be fine And that, so that would be one, and we've already had this conversation, right, but I respected that you, you are good at saving your money, you're good at, so you know what you can afford to do, and that's where I have to step back and go, okay, he's got it, he'll figure it out, and if this is a stumble, we'll We're actually grateful that you're in a place where if you did have a stumble over this lesson learned and you're not going to crash and burn, we wouldn't let you, right? Yeah, you'd have
Malcolm:to, like, get
Tana:kicked out of an apartment or...
Don:So, so that would be one example. And I honestly, again, I think that's minor, right? But it's, but that's an example. But for me, to kind of, a little bit to what Mom was saying, but since, you know, I, unfortunately, and I think sometimes fortunately, I parent out of the trauma of my abusive childhood, and so for me, I felt completely abandoned. As soon as I graduated and it was like, all right, out of the nest, see ya, you know. You know, that was my, my entry into adulthood. I don't know what the pop was at the bottom. I should have been more like a... Dislocated shoulder again.
Malcolm:It was just better than a splat, I guess. Yeah, that was it. Your shoulder was popping out of joint. So,
Don:so for me, the anxiety that really builds up in me is that when I step back and let you... experience adulthood as an autonomous human being making your own decisions, I then immediately begin to fear that you're going to be like, I have no support system because I didn't, I didn't have one at all. So it's like, I don't know how to be a support system as well as... While living
Malcolm:in your house. So that's that's numero uno.
Don:Sure, but Anyhow, I think that's one of the areas that I find complicated. Like I don't know how much to To be there as your dad and Then how much to not be there as as your dad supporting you making whatever decisions. Yeah, and it's it's very complicated How has that been for you? Like so I think actually what's interesting and Shelby I think you would have some really fascinating looks too on this is For Malcolm, how does it feel to still be living at home? Never having moved out But living at home and trying to, you know, become more and more autonomous as an adult. And then maybe even Shelby, how does it feel for you to be living in someone else's home and not just someone else's home but your partner's parents home as you're trying to experience becoming an adult? Um, I imagine that's extraordinarily complicated and I would argue probably more and more common today than it has been in a very long time because of the cost of living is so excruciatingly high.
Malcolm:Right. Yeah, we've, I mean, we've tried looking for places before and it's just, I mean, and it's crazy to think that Toledo is cheaper. Yeah, Toledo is cheaper, yeah. Than most. One of the cheapest places in the country. Yeah. And it's still, like, crazy. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Like, just. No, like, uh, relaxation money, I guess is the way to put it. I don't know, like, your own personal savings,
Tana:really. Discretionary money is
Malcolm:usually what they say. Yeah, it's like going back to having an allowance when I was in, like, middle school or high school, yeah.
Tana:Yeah. Um, yeah,
Shelby:I think... Well, moving out in general was a lot more difficult than I thought it was going to be. Because that's true, you
Don:actually were, you lived out, you had an apartment with a friend. So you actually were out
Shelby:all year. Um, I think living by myself was kind of a very crash and burn situation that I had. Um, just because I moved out for school and then I realized I really couldn't afford school that much. So there really wasn't any point in me moving out at that point. Um, but I was still trying and trying to go to school. Um, and then my car stopped working. So then I had to start saving up for a new car while paying rent and trying to buy groceries. And then when, um, our job just doesn't, isn't open for the, for the month of January, that just like is where everything just went down and I had to, you know, um, figure out what I was going to do. Um, but I think living here is a more than ideal situation, um, more than maybe some other people's, um, spouses or, you know, partners houses, um, or their, you know, parents house, just because you guys are a lot more welcoming and a lot more considerate than a lot of other people that I've, you know, known to be, um. You know, their spouse's parents. So, it's a lot easier. Um, but I know some people where, like, the mother of their boyfriend didn't like them very much, or, you know, I feel like that would be a much more bad situation. Yeah. Yeah. That'd be tough. So, I think I've gotten a good end of the stick, for sure, but...
Malcolm:But it's still a stick that I got.
Tana:Well, I'm glad to hear that. It's,
Malcolm:it was also interesting to think about because... Um, it just like, even though I knew it was going to be okay for her to stay here and that it was okay for me to stay here in my 20s, it's such, it's been made into such a socially taboo thing that I feel like I'm almost, I mean, we've had this conversation before that we just feel like we're almost doing something wrong. I
Tana:think it's going to go away though, because nobody can afford, nobody can afford
Malcolm:to. Oh yeah. I'm hearing of all sorts of people, whether that's from my school or, uh, my friends, friends who are like moving back to their parents houses after they graduate because they just.
Don:Yeah. I think in the forties and fifties when the housing market and the job market were aligned pretty well, Mm hmm. That. People imagined that if you stayed at home, there was something wrong with you. Like, why would you stay at home when you could easily get a job, and not just easily in theory, but easily in reality, get a job, and that job would provide enough for you to have a car, to have a house, um, and to have discretionary money. Yeah. And that remained true and slowly diminished through probably the late 70s early 80s and even in the 80s and 90s that was still to some degree true but it was really shrinking and now we're at a place where that is no longer the reality. You can't graduate high school and go and get a job in your town. That immediately pays for a house, pays for a car, allows you discretionary spending, and enough money that you could actually one of the two partners stay home, raise kids in that house, all on this one income right out of high school. Yeah. And, but, unfortunately, as most things that are considered to be frowned upon, or wrong, or social absurdities, whatever it might be, that takes longer to catch up. Yeah. Prior to the 40s, you had multi generational houses, like in the 30s and 20s, it was parents, grandparents, and grandkids all in the same house, and um, you know, piled in.
Malcolm:That's how
Tana:my mom's was, they even had cousins in there.
Don:And honestly, I think that there's something really profoundly beautiful about that. Now, we've all become used to our own space, and having lots of elbow room, and we can do whatever we want. But, I think the, the social benefit of creating a financial, um, well being for someone to be able to stay, um, with parents or with relatives. Um, and then also to be, to have family modeled, like for me, it's wonderful. I didn't get family modeled growing up, right? And so to be in a space where I get extended time having family modeled in my household is awesome.
Shelby:Yeah, I think it's also just like, there's, with how it is right now, there's no way I could have been able to go to school and save up for a car to go to school for a new one. Yeah. And now I can, this semester, go to school and have a car to Yeah. Yeah. Which will be very nice, but, um, I definitely thought it was going to be a lot cheaper living and being able to work just one part time job, um, and living on my own than it actually was.
Tana:Yeah. Yeah,
Malcolm:now you need to like... If you wanted to try and do the stereotypical college living, like, on campus, and doing full time school and stuff like that, you'd have to have parent support, right? You'd have to have parent support, or you'd, on top, there's some Take a ton of debt. There's some people that will, yeah, take a ton of debt, but there's, I've also known a ton of people at UT that would just have a full time job overnight, and then do school during the day. Yeah. And so they'll, they'll work 40 hours and they'll have a 1618
Tana:credit. Yeah, that's something I think a lot of people that come from more affluent homes don't realize like because they even like middle, middle class, at least what middle, middle class used to be, um, you know, a lot of times the parents could afford to pay for a certain amount of school and, uh, the kid didn't have to get a job. And, like, that was it, and that was kind of normal. I don't think people realize how many college students, like, work at least 20 hours a week while they're going to school. Yeah. Just to try to, and then they still have debt, you know, but, yeah. So, anyway, we're just, wow, we've talked a long time. We're at an hour again. Yes. For parenting. Yes. Well, it's because there's so much to say, really. Yeah. Uh, and I feel like we didn't even, there's a lot of things we didn't even really get
Malcolm:Imagine
Don:when you do the episode on time
Malcolm:management. We already did that one. Did it last an hour?
Tana:No. No. But apparently we learned no lessons from it! Um, but yeah, anyway, so, um, yeah, you know, we'll, we'll, obviously, all four of us live here, so we're gonna just keep learning about each other and learning how to manage this transition and everything, and quite frankly, I love having you here, so I'm not in any rush for you.
Malcolm:Me
Tana:too. I mean, the cat may be a big part of that, um, because we love having her here, but yeah. So anyway, so, um, thank you, uh, Don and Shelby for joining us for our podcast today. Yes. No problem. Thanks for inviting me. Yeah. You're welcome. Well, well, time to go.