A good question has the power to illuminate. It can make you rethink your beliefs, explore new ideas, and uncover agendas. Learning to ask good questions can open so many doors. Explore with Tana, Malcolm, and our guest Don Schiewer as we talk about the art of asking a good question - and the experience of teaching Malcolm to question everything.
A good question has the power to illuminate. It can make you rethink your beliefs, explore new ideas, and uncover agendas. Learning to ask good questions can open so many doors. Explore with Tana, Malcolm, and our guest Don Schiewer as we talk about the art of asking a good question - and the experience of teaching Malcolm to question everything.
Question. How good is this podcast?
Tana:Bears
Malcolm:beats Battlestar Galactica. Dad's already regretting being on this episode.
Tana:Were you going for the Dwight thing or were you just saying question because I was
Malcolm:just saying question but I love that too. It immediately made me
Tana:think of Dwight. Question. Anyway, so yeah, so we're going to talk about questions cause, uh, in our lap last podcast episode, assuming we put these out in the correct order, uh, we talked about, we talked about how asking questions is really important and that's actually something we've taught Malcolm to do over the years. And so when he mentioned in the last podcast, Yes, definitely. But in the last podcast episode, when you're like, Oh, I let my boss know, just, you know, let you know, I'm going to be asking a lot of questions. I was like, yes. Anyway, so Don's here too. So for those listening who don't know, Don is my husband, Malcolm's father, as far as he knows.
Malcolm:Wait,
Don:what? I should have asked some questions. Wait, as far as who knows?
Malcolm:Which part are we asking about? This is why questions are
Tana:important, folks. Yes, exactly. So we asked Don to join us today because I see what you did there. That's Huh? Question. We asked Don to join us today because he is the one who got me going on questions a long time ago, and he's really the best question asker I know of. So we thought, um, if we're going to have a, uh, podcast about questions, we should ask him. I mean,
Malcolm:like, half of your, uh, consulting job is just asking questions.
Tana:Shh,
Malcolm:that's a secret.
Don:I mean, yeah, that's, that's what you have to be as a consultant, is able to walk into a space that you have no expertise in, potentially no expertise, and little knowledge about the product or the systems or the processes. and be able to solve a problem that the company that brought you in wasn't able to solve with all of their experts in those things. And in order to do that, you have to learn how to ask questions that can get past the simple answers and past the, a lot of times the past the thinking that led to the problems in the first place.
Tana:Hmm. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I can see how Asking questions would be very good in a consultant position, for sure. But I also think, I've appreciated it in life
Malcolm:in general. I feel like a lot of the questions that you must ask are some of my favorite questions, which is like, you ask a question and someone has just made a realization based on the question you ask, like, oh my
Tana:gosh. Yeah, just asking the question alone is like, oh. Yeah.
Malcolm:Yeah. Or my favorite is also like, asking a question to someone that like, knows a lot about that specific thing, and then they're like, oh, I've never thought of that before.
Tana:Yeah. Yeah, asking questions is, it's so powerful because it's a great way to learn things. It's a great way to move things forward. It's also a great way to expose people.
Malcolm:Yes.
Tana:Not that Don's ever used it in that way. He's making a face. Anyway, what did
Malcolm:I get myself
Don:into? I don't know. I was laying on the couch reading a
Malcolm:book.
Tana:Well, you sneezed and then we were like, okay, you're going to be on now because you're making noise.
Don:You've noticed me. You had forgotten I was around until I sneezed. Yes.
Tana:Oh, and Don's here too. Yeah. You
Malcolm:were actually supposed to be in every episode so far.
Don:You just didn't ask the
Malcolm:question? Nope. Okay.
Tana:Right. Yeah. We just made the assumption. Uh, yeah. So, uh, I've, I thought maybe we could start off by talking about teaching children to question.
Malcolm:Well,
Don:how did you teach me? Well, can I, can I start with a question? Yeah. What makes a question a good question? Because basically from the age of two children are saying why. Right. Which is a question. Right. It's not a good question. Hmm. If anything it's an annoying question.
Tana:Specificity. But I think it is helpful. I mean at that age how sophisticated of a question is gonna be. But Even just the fact that they're asking why is demonstrating curiosity and is causing people to
Don:think. No doubt about the value of a child asking why, but it's still a bad question. Right, overall,
Malcolm:in general. And yes, there is such thing as a bad question.
Don:Yeah, so the, so it's not about whether or not it's a value add for the child, because of course, they want to know why to everything, because they have no real understanding of the world other than what they observe, but they have no thing to measure that against, and so therefore, it's not helpful, so they ask why. Right. But unfortunately, that's not the case. a good question. And so what we did was we attempted to teach Malcolm how to ask good questions. And so what I'm kind of curious is hearing the two of you talk about this, what do you consider are the key elements of a good question? So Malcolm, you said it's best consulted right now. You will not ask me to be on the
Malcolm:podcast ever again.
Don:So, Malcolm, you said specificity, so I think that, sure, that can be the key, but um, what other elements are necessary in asking good questions?
Tana:I think not in terms of a component of how the question is formed, but a good question comes from. Being willing to drop assumptions or rethink things or take a different angle, you know, because The objective of the question. That too. Yeah.
Don:Maybe another helpful way to think about it is what makes a question a bad question?
Tana:Well, I think an obvious bad question, I mean I would maybe even frame it as a bad faith question is asking something on purpose that you already know the answer to just to piss off the other person or catch them or you
Don:know what I mean. So let's drop the motivation there for a second because that is one of the motivations that happens. But that's not the only motivation that leads people to ask questions they already know the answer to. And I agree with you, that is an example of a bad question. You see it in classrooms all the time. A student asks a question that they know the answer to, to demonstrate their value or their worth to a professor. And paranoia.
Malcolm:What do you mean by that? I ask questions I know the answer to all the time because I'm paranoid. I don't actually know the answer. But then
Don:that's, but that's not the same
Malcolm:thing.
Tana:Interesting.
Don:Because you have an uncertainty, but a lot of folks, particularly in educational settings, ask questions that they know the answer to. And by doing so, it's to elevate them above the rest of their classmates or their peers. Peers in the eyes of the professor or a teacher or whatever it might be so that people do it on the job people do it Especially if they think they can ask a question that they know that only the professor and they know or the person that's in the So now it becomes a shared knowledge base and so one of the things I've discovered through the years is that a Good question is the great equalizer of educational status. So a person who has a PhD, like your mother, Malcolm, I know I do. Yeah. Sorry. We should have told you that. So when, when she asks a question or when she demonstrates knowledge or insight into something, it carries a certain weight that someone without a PhD doesn't necessarily have the benefit. But when we ask a question, a three year old can bring a PhD to their knees because a question breaks through all of those barriers. And so if you learn to ask good questions, you immediately break down the distance of knowledge between you and the other person. Which is why as a consultant, it's so important for you to be able to ask good questions because you walk in and you are not the expert. Um, the only thing I would say I'm the expert of is asking good questions. But when I walk into a space and I ask questions, now the person who's the expert in that area, The, if I, if I ask it with good faith, as you kind of mentioned, where I don't know the answer and it's out of curiosity and I genuinely want to hear an answer, right? Those are what makes it a good question. Right. Yeah. I'm, I'm genuinely curious. I genuinely want to hear the response and I genuinely want to learn from the response. And you have followups. Right. If I'm learning from it, I will ask additional questions. Right. Too often when we're in a setting, I, and I'm sure you both have either experienced it from one side or the other, both the give and the take here, where you ask a question. And you're already thinking about something else while the person's responding. Oh yeah, for sure. Or you perceive that's what's happening on the other end. Someone asks you a question and while you're giving the answer you know they're not really listening to you. They're already preparing for something else. That's a clear indication that the question was not a good question. It's coming from the wrong place. It's attempting to get to the wrong thing. Right. And so you need to adjust how you're asking the question. Oftentimes, like there's a great uh example in uh, Eugene Peterson wrote a book about his life and every month he was given a review where they sent questions asking how his job was going and how his role was happening. And so he's realized that they were asking these questions, but no one was actually paying attention to the answer. So him and his spouse sat down and they came up with this elaborate thing of an affair that was happening within the company and all this stuff. And they ran this ruse for multiple, multiple months. And they were And no one ever checked in and said, Hey, what is going on? Because he knew that though they were asking questions, they weren't listening once they asked the question. And that I think is the part that most people disconnect from is people learn how to ask a question. Oftentimes not the best question they could ask, but they ask a question, but they don't listen to the answer. Right. Which eliminates the value of the question.
Tana:Right. Yeah. I, I want to go back to the why question because, you know, you said that's a terrible question. I think some People listening would go, why? But
Malcolm:then you can say, why is that a
Tana:terrible question? Yeah. So I mean, cause I see incredible value in a why question, but I believe if my, my recollection is that in the past, it's not that you think the idea of a why question is bad. It's just lazy. It's, but that you think it should be maybe formed in a different way, because I would say that often as a consultant, you're basically going in. And when there's some pattern of like that's inefficient or, or whatever, you're basically asking them, well, why is it set up this way? Because you need to know. You know, what were the things that happened to get them to that point?
Malcolm:But why as a question set isn't bad. It's just the question.
Tana:Just to end begin and end with why? Yeah.
Don:So there's a great interview with Richard Feynman who is probably one of the greatest thinkers of the last generation or two if not more than that. Mm hmm. And I'm learning so much
Malcolm:right now.
Tana:What? I'm learning so
Malcolm:much right now. Good, we can still teach
Don:you. I would encourage you to, but also the broader listening folks, to search Richard Feynman, F A Y N M A N. Uh huh. Um, F E Y M A N. Um, and his response to someone asking him why magnets attract.
Tana:Oh, okay. Okay. And
Don:his response is, why? He's like, you don't get anywhere with why. He's like, if I said, my, uh, my grandfather's in the hospital, you said, why? Well, he slipped on ice. Why? Well, Ice is slippery. Why? Well, because when it lacks friction. Why? Well, because when you step on ice it creates a small amount of friction that melts some of the water or some of the ice into water and then it becomes less viscous and you slide. Why? Well, because of this and yet really the question the person wanted to know was not Anything to do with the viscosity of water on ice. And so you end up in a place that you never intended when you ask why questions because why questions just continue to dig deeper. Now, That's where a why question can be effective. If you do really want to drill down into someone being in the hospital and your real goal is to understand ice and slipperiness and friction, well then, by all means, why is a fantastic question, but no one starts with my, my grandfather or my father, whoever's in the hospital and then ask a question and that the intention is really to understand viscosity. So, you know, Why is, is a imprecise question that will oftentimes lead you down a, like thinking about like a river that enters into a delta where the river splits into, you know, a thousand different tributaries going out, right? That at that moment, you, you've lost control. Of where you're going. Right,
Tana:right,
Malcolm:yeah.
Don:And now you're on a ride that you don't have any real say in, especially the more often you say why. See, I think
Malcolm:you get further than that with what, because if you keep asking what, they're just going to keep repeating the same thing over and over again. It's true, it's, that's like a Hoover Dam. You just keep banging against the
Tana:dam. And that's, it's interesting like that you broke it down like that, because I think for, for toddlers, then the why question is fascinating because they just keep learning
Malcolm:new stuff.
Don:But they cannot necessarily, once you get so far down that list of why ever tie it back to creating a general understanding for why. Why the block broke the television when
Tana:they threw it. Right. Which is why parents get frustrated because every why question just leads to another why question. It's never ending. Yeah, because they did Toddler doesn't understand science or you know, whatever.
Don:And the worst part about it is that because it never ends and it continues down this journey None of the prior questions actually gets filled out to a comprehensible level Because you just move on to the next thing and what we need to do is be more More precise in our language when we ask questions in order to have a understanding And then from that understanding we can ask another precise question that leads us to further understanding of whatever it is, we're either trying to solve or comprehend or learn from, right, or discover. And without that, without that intentionality of that preciseness and you said specificity earlier, you're, you're just, you're tumbling.
Tana:Well, I think that implies that there's also responsibility on the person responding to the question, you know, you can sort of maybe lead. The answer in a direction or again is a bad question well true But I'm thinking specifically like in the in the case of toddlers where You may be able as a parent to kind of pause and think what is What are they really? Yeah, what are they
Malcolm:actually asking
Don:but that right there the moment you go? What is someone really asking means that the question they ask is not a
Tana:question. Yeah for sure You 100%.
Don:110%. Which is a ridiculous answer, also, by the way. Nothing can be 110 percent of an answer.
Malcolm:It can be. 110 is 110 percent of 100.
Don:Except for if I gave 100 percent of an answer, that means I gave everything you could possibly give in an answer. So where does the extra 10 percent come from?
Malcolm:Oh, I thought we were just talking about maths. Maths.
Tana:Yeah, he was just, so I'm trying to remember exactly when we started kind of guiding you towards better questions, which ended up being a major pain for a few years.
Don:Honestly, I think it was the moment we started
Malcolm:asking why. Was it?
Don:Yeah. I think the moment that Malcolm started asking why we would say something to the effect of If you can ask. a better question And you can ask us Better questions that lead us to change our opinion on something We will be open to changing our view
Tana:That's that is true.
Malcolm:That
Don:is true And so from probably you know Obviously when he when malcolm first began saying why he wasn't didn't have the skill set necessary to ask better questions but slowly You What was the one, uh, you, he asked a question of you and you said, because I said so.
Tana:Well, no, I want to go back on that a little bit. Yeah. So we had already been teaching him how to ask good questions. And there were times when that got to be exhausting.
Don:Yes. By all means. I do want to make that clear for the listeners. Like this, when we tell this story, if we don't tell some of the angst behind like some of the moments, it just sounds. Beautiful, wonderful. And right. But there was, there was a lot of regret also in teaching Malcolm
Tana:to ask questions. But we always, we always emphasize that we would do our best not to lie to Malcolm and that we would try to give him the most complete answer possible. And we never wanted to start. We Don and I had a very specific conversation where we're like, we will never say, say, because I said so, because that is a, that's, that's a terrible way to parent blah, blah,
Don:blah, blah. It's a terrible way to move through the world. Right. And it's not just parents that do that.
Malcolm:I
Don:think you're better off, you're, you're correct. I think that's a much more, much more better way to say it is
Tana:I didn't hear what he said. Someone with authority. Oh, someone with, absolutely. Someone with authority would just, I think dictators, you know, you'll do this because I said so. Uh, so anyway, so we had, we had gotten to a point where Malcolm was like question, question, question, question, question. And I finally went, Malcolm, it's, it's because I said so. And he paused. And he looked at me, and he goes, Is that a good answer for you? Because that's not a good answer for me. And I was like, And it was such a moment where I was so frustrated, but at the same time I was like, That's a fair point.
Don:And to me, that is the beauty of what we do. intentionally but didn't anticipate well enough.
Malcolm:Yeah,
Tana:right. Created.
Don:Yeah. Was a human who was not willing to just assume that if someone who had authority told them something that it must be
Tana:right? Yes. Uh, I would like to take this opportunity to apologize to all of Malcolm's teachers,
Malcolm:and all of his bosses, all of his bosses,
Don:and to myself, even Shelby. I, I'm pretty sure that within the last, before sometimes, I'm pretty sure within the last three to four weeks, at least a dozen times, I've said something and Malcolm has questioned. Whether or not my answer was, was good enough.
Malcolm:Annoying him with it. Specifically
Don:lately, because I was like, Malcolm, I feel like you just want to be contrarian
Malcolm:to everything
Tana:you say. And that did, that did develop for a while too, where that was very frustrating cause it did feel like it contrarianism in you for a while. I like
Malcolm:being devil's advocate,
Don:which is contrarianism. And, and here's the thing, contrarianism has evolved. It's own power and major flaw, right? So contrarianism's power is that it doesn't take the status quo and accept it as truth. Right, right. And that's a very powerful thing. Yeah. You just explained
Malcolm:my whole life,
Don:right? However, the major flaw with contrarianism is that you never accept anything as at face value. Right. And so you spend a lot of energy, calories, and emotional effort. To get to the bottom of something that didn't necessarily need to be gotten to the bottom of.
Malcolm:Uh,
Tana:yeah. Well, and also there are times when I experienced that. It would be also nice to just I don't agree with the overall concept that every, like, you just have to, you just have to accept it and get along and don't cause division and blah, blah, blah. But there are times when it's like, okay, is this the time for you to like, dig deep? Or can you just accept that this is what I need from you in this moment or whatever, you know, like that's, you know, can be, can be problematic as well. But I, I think we are not, You're curious as a child. You ask the why question so much of your parents. Your parents get frustrated and they'll tell you a little bit and then they'll just say, because I said so. And then you get into school and they tell you a certain way to think and it's very formulaic. It's the banking model of education, right? You're a repository and they give you stuff and then they want to withdraw that same stuff back out.
Don:Repository and suppository are not synonyms, Malcolm. Okay.
Tana:So I feel like I'm just gonna roll past that. So I feel like, uh, you lose that kind of ability to question things. And I think that's purposeful because I didn't like, I know. And you're welcome. Because the world wants to create cogs in the machine, right? Like that's, you know. I think it actually
Malcolm:just. stressed me out because I think it was one of those situations that you said where it's like you knew I, or I knew that there was other solutions or other ways to go about getting the solution, but I wasn't allowed to. to find that way. Yes.
Don:The educational system is not happy with questions. Show your work. So the educational system is not happy with questions at all. In fact, this is, this is one of my biggest anxieties that I face. Um, and when I'm talking about questions, is that And the education system today is a post industrial era education system, or should be, instead it's an industrial era, in the sense that from the front of the room you're expected to take and glean from whatever is being said, it is put into a repository, not suppository, repository, though sometimes it feels like a suppository, let's just say that. Yep. So. A repository and that you should be able to regurgitate these facts in the exact order. So it is a repository. Right, exactly. You just shit out these things. And here's, here's the problem with that. Let me say, here's the value of that when we were in industrial era, is that made great factory workers. Right. That made incredible workers who were able to stand on a factory line and do exactly what they were told, take in the information and make it happen. The problem is we are post industrial era. So now we're, I would argue, we're in more of a much more likely to be entrepreneurial era, which means that we need creative problem solving. Our education system is not interested in creative problem solving. Instead, what our education system is, Because we don't like questions. If you question your teacher, or if you question the method used to come to a solution from your teacher, I'm thinking back to second grade, and this will not surprise anyone that knows me well, but in second grade, I questioned my teacher's method for solving a mathematical multiplication problem. And I said, there's a much simpler way to do it. And I think my method is probably very close to, what's the current math? The new math? Yeah, what is it called? It's um
Tana:It starts with a C.
Don:I'm not sure what it is. But my method was much closer where I rounded up the number, multiplied it, then subtracted the difference and got to the answer. And the teacher said, your answer is correct, but you did the problem wrong. Which is
Malcolm:impossible. Not well, okay, not
Tana:impossible because you could luck into a correct answer. Yes.
Malcolm:Yeah. But like, but mine was repeatable. Right, right.
Tana:If it's repeatable, then it's formulaic. Yeah. Yeah.
Malcolm:And that's what frustrated me so much about school, especially since there were some things where I was good enough at math that I didn't need to write out What? Like I
Tana:was able to solve Yeah, you do that stuff in your head all the
Malcolm:time. I was able to just look at it and know the answer because I had just seen enough I had noticed a pattern, so I didn't even need to do the math, I just noticed a pattern that based on what numbers I saw in the equation, I knew what
Don:the answers were. So I have a couple examples of my own younger self with that very thing. The first one was in 8th grade, I had a social studies teacher who on every I did too. What? Probably not the same one. No, probably not. Every Thursday at the end of class we'd have 15 minutes for a review for the test that would happen the following day. So every Friday we had a test for everything we had learned from the previous week or from that that week. Thursday, 15 minutes left in class, we'd be handed a sheet of that had a crossword puzzle on it and then it had questions that we had talked about throughout the week and then it had an answer, uh, pool. Is that what?
Malcolm:Oh yeah, yeah. I know what you're talking about, the like box that would have all the possible answers. Correct,
Don:yes. And whoever got this crossword puzzle finished first in the class would get an automatic A on the test on Friday. Fun little thing, right? Um, I, I did not, I did not pay attention at all, all week in that class and I was always the first person done with the crossword puzzle because I was able to say what word, so this is a question, What word in this pool over here fits here fits in the only word that is 10 letters long and there's only one word that is 10 letters long and I would put it in and I'd say okay what word has a b as the fifth letter yeah I would take that and before you knew it I had filled out the entire puzzle.
Malcolm:That's how I never read any of the clues.
Don:I know for a fact I did not even look at the clues because that would waste my time and there were some smart kids in my class that could fill that answer sheet out really fast and I needed to beat them because the only way I was getting an A on that test was if I did that. And then the second example I have, and I think this kind of reflects more of what you just said, is that, so I went to um, a college. And was looking to it was probably about eight or nine years after I graduated high school Didn't do college because I just was not good at it Um, because i'm not good at that person in the front dropping knowledge on me with no expectation of me engaging the information Right in a meaningful way outside of just regurgitating it and So I'm in this thing and they give me a test and they're like, raise your hand if you took calculus in high school. Well, my junior year I took Cal calculus and passed my senior year. I didn't do any of the homework except for what I could finish at the end of class. And then I figured out exactly how many answers I had to get right on my final in order to get a passing grade for my senior year. I've done that. So I, I had like a 98% home, uh, test, average 14% homework average. And then I did enough on my final to pass. So I like raise my hand and I'm like. Sure, I took calculus twice actually, um, and they hand me the calculus exam for the math portion for my entry into the school. And I told the person, hand me the exam. I said, it's been nine years. I'm pretty sure I don't remember any of this. And they said, just do the best you can. And if you do really terrible, you can talk to your advisor and get a different test. I was like, okay. So I get the test. And to my delight, it's multiple choice. And so I sit there, and I figure out, I look at all the answers, and I look at the problem, and I know which answers could not possibly be the answer just by looking at it. So I can eliminate two to three every single time. So the ones that I could only eliminate two, sure, it was a 50 50 chance. I just guessed. Didn't matter.
Malcolm:Flip a coin's better than A 25 percent chance.
Don:My advisor, I go in to meet my advisor, and my advisor says, I want to talk to you about your math exam. And I was like, okay. And she said, Where is your sheet with all your work on it? Did you not give it to them? And she's like, because the only sheet Staple did this is blank. And I was like, I didn't use a sheet. I didn't write anything down. And she said, so you did this all in your head. And I was like, I mean,
Malcolm:yeah,
Tana:the
Malcolm:answer is yes.
Don:And she said, she said, well, you got 62 out of 64. Correct. And I said, I said that tracked above my percentage that I was expecting. And she said, what do you mean? I said, well, there was at least a dozen of them that there were two possible answers to the fact that out of the dozen, I got 10 out of 12. Yeah. Right on a 50, 50 coin flip. That's pretty good. And she said, what? And I said, how silly is it that a university is using multiple choice and then giving bad possible outcomes on the multiple choice that couldn't possibly ever be the answer. Right. Yeah. And so I, again, solved it because I asked questions. Right. The questions that, and people don't think about this as a question, right? Because I was giving an answer, but I thought about it as questions. And my question was, can that formula, or that answer, legitimately be a result of that? Right, right. And so I was asking questions of the answers. Right. And by asking questions of the answers, I was able to eliminate multiple answers until the point to where I either had only one left that was a legitimate answer, An possible answer. Mm-Hmm. is, again, I didn't know. Mm-Hmm. Mm-Hmm. a legitimate possible answer or narrowed it down to two legitimate possible answers. Same thing with that test, with the crossword puzzle. My question was, I asked questions that gave me much better information than my classmates were asking, which was the questions that were fed to them. Hmm. The questions that were fed to them were deliberately vague. in order to create a sense of pause to think through the answer. I found better questions than the teacher was asking. And it was, what is the only word over here that has 10 letters that fits in the only space that has 10 letters? That was a better question. Now that didn't help me with social studies. Sure. So as I walked out of that classroom with an A and many teacher, parent teacher conferences over how was I cheating on this crossword puzzle, Um, it, the problem wasn't that, uh, I, I was doing well. The problem was, was I actually learning. And I wasn't learning. And
Malcolm:here's, here's the thing I don't understand as well, is that there's all such straight up misinformation that's told to kids at schools, and just hoping that they don't ask. the correct questions for stuff, and that happens all the time, I feel like, for history. You guys told me the correct history for things, and so when I asked my teacher about it
Don:Especially about slavery, when we were in Virginia, and you got a Benetton commercial version of
Malcolm:slavery. About indentured servants. Right, yeah. And, uh, I don't think I got in trouble with her though, because she was actually a good teacher. Yeah, I liked her. And, but, uh That was probably the curriculum's fault,
Tana:not her.
Malcolm:Yeah. Yeah, but I remember there was one time I got in trouble with a police officer Because they were in for dare. Oh Right, and I told them no That's not how drugs work
Don:Drugs can make you feel good. Yeah, right just make you feel
Malcolm:bad, right? I was like, I was like Well, I mean, I don't think I knew what euphoric meant when I was in fifth grade, but I was like, yeah, drugs make you feel like euphoric at first, and not like, terrible. So let me
Don:ask you a question. He wasn't happy with me. That I may or may not like the answer to. But your mother and I, we decided that it needed to be very honest with you about the impact of drugs and how Initially there was a gain. Right. But then very quickly there was a Deficit. Right. It came to drugs. Right. So let me ask you this Did you ever do drugs? No.
Malcolm:I don't think I even ever like I was given an opportunity, and even if I was, I probably would have still said
Don:no. So, I'm gonna, I'm gonna break my rule. Why not? My rule broking was because I said why. Yes, I figured.
Malcolm:I didn't give a shit.
Don:Because you had all the information. Yeah. And you were able to make a choice based on the information you were given. Yeah,
Malcolm:I, I, Zero need or want or
Tana:Yeah, explain the I didn't give a shit part. I
Malcolm:just had absolutely no curiosity whatsoever or wants or need to try drugs whatsoever at all.
Tana:I'm gonna take credit for that.
Don:Definitely, but I think the value was was the question, right? Learning to ask good questions and then also, you know, The, the one thing that is absolutely necessary is in a trusting relationship that the question is a good question and the answer is sincere.
Tana:Yes, 100 percent true. And I would also say that a lot of that came out of, I think, Malcolm asking good questions because you, you didn't understand why Somebody would do drugs if it has such detrimental effects. You know what
Malcolm:I think I asked? I think I asked why her neighbor smoked so much if it was so bad
Tana:for her. I think you asked that, but I also think you asked about specifically, because we had a friend at the time who was struggling with addiction. And I think you, and they did something to kind of hurt their family. And I think you asked about that as well. Like, why would they, why would they do that if it was going to result in all these sad things, you know, and, you know, and, and then also if it, you know, Cause you were learning about what addiction was and if addiction feels so terrible, why would somebody take drugs? And I was like, well, cause it doesn't, drugs don't feel terrible at first. And you're
Malcolm:like, what? I think I've also had no interest because I know it takes control away from me and I do not like having control taken away
Tana:from me. You're like me on that.
Don:Can, I'm going to ask you a question that potentially is self serving. Asking me or
Tana:Malcolm?
Malcolm:Both.
Don:Like. The two of you decided to ask me to be a part of this discussion because we're talking about questions and you felt that I was someone who asked good questions. Yes. I'm assuming that that's the case as opposed to, I asked terrible questions and you wanted to use me as your, um, ploy. What is it about the way that I ask questions, that is valuable or that you, you find to be uniquely, and unique might be too strong, but, but that you find to be compelling. Sincerity.
Tana:Yeah. I mean, I think that, but I think for me, I, whether it was my personality or it was my specific upbringing, I don't know, but I was very much. a, uh, a rule follower and I just accepted whatever was told, told to me. Right. So authority was a huge thing for me. And it was like, oh, well, if I, if, um, this person says I need to do this, then I need to do that. And I just never even thought to question it. Now I did a little bit in the religious sphere, um, because I didn't, A lot of what I was being taught didn't feel right to me. And of course you're taught that your feelings are lying to you and all that stuff, you know? And so I had, no one ever asked why. Right. Right. And I had, I had a struggle for a long time with that, with religion, where I was like, well, I don't really agree with this, but I'm being told that my feelings don't matter and that I should believe this. So I'm going to try really hard to believe X, Y, Z, but I would still be like in, in. You know, interior, internally going, I don't, I don't agree with this. I don't, and I don't know what to do with that, you know, and then you came along and you started asking questions and I was like, Oh, we can. We can ask questions like we can do this, this, you know, and you know, and I, I'm sure you recall at first it terrified me cause I was like, Oh my gosh, my husband's a heretic. But, uh, you know, then it was like, Oh, finally I have permission to ask all of these questions that have been built up inside of me. And so for part of what was so intriguing for me was just that it kind of, and I think it kind of helped that You are my husband. And I was still in a lot of the mindset of that early Christianity of like, you're the authority kind of thing. Like, I know it seems so funny to
Malcolm:talk about now. Anyway, we all know who the real authority is here.
Don:Yeah, there is no question when it comes to that.
Tana:But like, it was like, oh, like if Don's doing it, it must be okay, kind of a thing, you know? Um, and you also, you know, Started asking questions. I never even thought to ask, you know That's that's what it is. It's like oh you can Question that like I I
Malcolm:don't even think what I don't think it's even necessarily that I've thought that I can question things But there's certain Levels of depth that I don't think to ask about. Yes.
Tana:Yes. So there's the ones that you don't Do need permission to ask for and then there's the ones that you don't even think about.
Don:So, so the exciting thing to me about question asking is that it's a, it's a skill. It really is. And like any skill you need to practice. Yes. Though I've, I've, I've Um, Allen Iverson isn't a fan of practice. We should be a fan of practicing our skills. Practice, practice. We're talking about practice. So it really is a skill, but most of us, because we are afraid of asking questions or we've been demonstrated that the only questions to ask are questions that we already know the answer to or questions that aren't going to disrupt the authority that we're asking them of. Right. Yeah. But once we learn how to ask questions and ask them well, we learn better and better where the, where the, to identify the boundaries of an answer or the boundaries of a philosophy or a concept and press on them. You notice the pattern. And see if there is something in that boundary that That isn't quite as firm as it looked like, and you press on it, and you can ask a good question about it. And here's the other thing I would say. The earlier in the question depth you are, right? The more likely you are to offend someone. Once you get past that first question if the person is not offended Mm hmm You can ask the next question and the next question and the further down you get the less offended the person is because now They also are journeying with you on these questions, and they also
Malcolm:have an understanding that you're not You don't have a bad motivation for asking the questions, like you said before, to purposely offend someone or that you already know the answer of and so you want to, like, feel better over someone. Right. And so I think some people are used to that type of question asking. Of course. And so as soon as you're, you know, They understand that you're past that. Yes. They're like, oh, this is
Don:sincere. And, and so that combination of what you just said and what I said is so significant because it becomes a journey that you're partnering with whatever the entity is that you're questioning. Yeah. So it could be It could be an entire company. It could be everyone involved in a certain process. It could be friends. It can be a partner, right? Like, whatever it might be that you're identifying, now all of a sudden, with each new question you ask, You're almost partnered and there's an excitement about moving down this path. Yeah. Rarely have I found once I'm like four or five questions in, does the person slam the door and say, that's it, I'm done. Right. Right. It does happen. Sure. Yeah. But it's, it's very rare because usually that, the slamming the door is on the first question. Because that first question, when you ask it, a lot of times the person thinks, their immediate response is, they're only asking this because they know the answer and because they know the answer, they think I'm dumb, or I'm incompetent, or I'm not able to give a good answer. And if you are genuine, that isn't your motivation. You, you actually are curious. So if you ask any question that you know the answer to, You gotta reflect on that because you're kind of the jerk in that setting.
Malcolm:Sometimes what I hate about wanting to ask questions is because some people are unwilling to admit that they don't know something. And so sometimes I want to ask the question, but then I'm also afraid I'm going to offend them by asking, especially mansplaining anyone either.
Don:Well, that's the advantage. If you only live within the realm of questions, you're never mansplaining. Especially if you're doing it from genuine places of curiosity as opposed to where you know the answer. Yeah, because I
Malcolm:just don't want to like continue my sentence without someone knowing what I'm talking about and I'm just going
Tana:Right, yeah, no, I get
Don:that I I do want to say to my my last statement that I made that about that People that close the door or whatever like there are some reasons for people to close the door that are genuine sure Yeah, and it's not that they're just you know, don't want to be proven wrong or something I want to be very careful, but I was generalizing quite a bit there Mm hmm, and we need to be sensitive to that if we want to be good at asking questions We need to be sensitive of the person we're asking for an intimate response from, right? Like, think about that. Like, there's a certain level of intimacy that exists in asking someone a question. You're, you're being intimate in the sense of like, what is your knowledge? What is your grasp? What is your comfort level with discussing these things? And if we enter into a question without concern of that, Hmm. We can be harmful. Yeah. And we need to be very conscientious about it. And I think that that's another piece of question asking is understanding who the person is that you're asking the question of. Yeah, yeah. And how it might affect them personally. Yeah. And then to alter or avoid altogether
Tana:the question. Yeah. No, I think you're right. Yeah.
Don:So I do a lot of coaching with people, you guys are both familiar with that, and I teach people, and one of the things I often will say to them is, okay, when they ask you a question, I'll say, okay, but what's the next better question? Yeah. And I think it would serve all of us well to Always be at, uh, confronting ourself with that. Like, when we go to ask a question, we pause for a moment and we say, What's the next better question? And I think if we did better at that, we would have less, um, angst between political parties. We'd have less angst between gender, race, and religion. Sexuality if we learn to pause before we ask the very first question We want to ask right and we pause it and we said what is the next better question that both honors the person? We're questioning. Yeah, and Honors the hope of the outcome right and that's really hard to do
Malcolm:it is think before
Tana:you jump Yeah Well, it feels like um A good place to wrap up. I think you kinda summed it up well. Yes, I agree. Gave us a good, a good place to
Don:go from. And I will not be invited back because I took up most of the time talking. So I apologize to all the listeners who enjoy Tana and Malcolm. Uh, and, uh, yeah. Oops, this was a, this is a topic I'm very passionate about. I know,
Malcolm:I know. Well that's
Tana:why I wanted to, yeah.
Malcolm:That's as good as it
Don:gets. Welp.
Malcolm:Welp. Welp. Time to go.