In today's episode, Malcolm and Tana discuss algorithms and the good - and bad - they do.
It
Tana:is actually afternoon.
Malcolm:Afternoon.
Tana:I guess it's morning somewhere.
Malcolm:Somewhere. Yes.
Tana:So, yes, good morning, good afternoon, how are you doing?
Malcolm:Eh. I have to go to work soon, I don't want to go to work soon.
Tana:Do you want to go to work later?
Malcolm:Technically, soon is later, so.
Tana:Mm. I mean, okay, never mind. We won't have a discussion about words and their meanings. But, anyway. Well, I don't have to because it's Saturday and I work Monday through Friday. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Because I'm better than you. Oh, wow! No, I just have a more desirable schedule, that's all.
Malcolm:Yeah, no kidding. Well, maybe.
Tana:Yeah, I guess it depends, because you, um Yeah, I don't know. Okay. I was thinking there was like a day you wanted off for some reason. Oh, yeah, because you do your dance stuff.
Malcolm:Yeah, mine's malleable because I can be like, I can't work these days. And then my schedule just has to fit that. Yeah. So that's nice. But I also feel like I would be someone who would like those like, Uh, work four days for ten hours. Yeah.
Tana:Yeah.
Malcolm:And then have like a three day weekend.
Tana:I, I kind of feel like maybe I would like that too. I go back and forth on that. Cause I also am like, by the time I hit 5 PM, I'm like, Oh my gosh, I'm so done. You
Malcolm:know? Yeah. But then at that point, I'm like, I'd rather just do another two hours each day than work another full eight hours on Friday or Monday or whatever day I would be working in addition.
Tana:Yeah. Yeah. They are, they have piloted programs. Uh, in different countries where it's a four day work week, but I think some of them are four ten hours, but they, others are just four eight hour shifts. So it's like, you're basically working a 32 hour week and they're saying it's like basically just as productive.
Malcolm:Yeah, I mean, yeah, at a certain point your production just falls off.
Tana:Well, the interesting thing is that American productivity has skyrocketed over the decades, and if you see the charts where the productivity is put on the same chart as American worker wages, um, the wages have not kept up with the productivity. So we've become more and more productive, and um, I wonder if productivity
Malcolm:is starting to go down now because of all the, um, Act your wage.
Tana:I'm gonna, uh, bet, yeah, to a certain extent. Um, and the unfortunate thing is that some people just be like, well, workers are lazy, you know, and.
Malcolm:It's a, it's a weird work culture thing now where it's like, you know, the undying patriotism for your job.
Tana:Patriotism for your job. It's what it feels like.
Malcolm:It feels like you, you really need to, and I've especially experienced this in, um, working like, uh, frontline and stuff where it's like, you are supposed to go above and beyond
Tana:and it's
Malcolm:like, but you're not paying me above and beyond. You're paying me minimum wage.
Tana:Yeah. And there's often like few incentives for that. And it's. Supposedly supposed to be just an intrinsic incentive to do your best, right? And, um, I definitely get that to a certain extent because I've always been that way. Um, I think my generation, we were brought up by a lot of baby boomers and baby boomers definitely had that idea of like, you're married to the company and you go above and beyond it. So that's what we were taught to do, right? Like we were, we were taught to produce and, and now it's being
Malcolm:exploited.
Tana:Um, well, Absolutely. It was starting to be exploited with the baby boomers. Um, they just kind of went along with it and then parts of my generation went along with it and parts of my generation were like, Hey, wait, and then millennials were like, Hmm, uh, we're, we're going to kind of buck against this. And then Gen Z was like, Screw this. And, uh, yeah, so I feel like, um, it's interesting how different generations will be credited with like the
Malcolm:slow rebellion
Tana:doing well, they'll be, they'll be credited with doing a certain thing. Yeah. It's always very slow. But it's been unraveling throughout the generations, right? Yeah. And so it's like unravel, unravel, unravel. And then this generation pulls the final thread and they're like credited with, you know, I feel like
Malcolm:there's always so many things like that where it's, it's like, Oh, this, this generation's like doing this, this, and this. And it's like, if you like, Look in the past.
Tana:Right. Yeah.
Malcolm:Everyone's been doing this. Oh, it's like
Tana:for the the headlines when you were a kid Were like Millennials killed this, Millennials killed that and I'm like that was dying. It's just they finally died, you know? Some of my favorite ones
Malcolm:are memes have always existed and seeing stuff like one of my favorite ones is there was this Like I think that what it was is, you know, how they had those ships in a jar
Tana:Oh, yeah, yeah. Things. Yeah.
Malcolm:Well, this was a taxidermy in a jar and it was Oh my gosh. It was two frogs that were fencing. Wow. Inside of this, this bottle. Wow. And so it was just like, I'm glad that humans haven't only been fucking weird recently.
Tana:Yeah, exactly. Yeah. There's, we have, we do have this strange sense of like, we don't know our history. Um, and I think every generation does it. And then we, you know, we tend to realize it more and more as we get older. Like, right. Like, so we, we, we go, Oh, well this is, this is just terrible. And then you talk to somebody who's older and they're like, no, that was. That was bad back then too, it's just, you didn't notice it as much because now you have the internet where everybody can put everything and you can see the awfulness.
Malcolm:Things that stay common problems don't, you don't always remember it as being common in the past. Right. And so it's like, And and there's also some I think there's some weird level of gaslighting to that older generations do where it's like well This is all your generation's fault. Oh my gosh. Yes. Wait a minute. Yeah, like actually look We weren't the first ones doing right,
Tana:right. Yeah, it was people's we'll talk about Uh, all kinds of, of, uh, prejudice and hatred. And I'm like, may I present Hitler? May I present thousands of years of war and hatred. And you know what I mean? Like there's all kinds of, you can go, go back and see all kinds of, uh, Um, bad blood between different, you know, uh, tribes or, uh, countries or, you know what I mean? Like there's always, uh, races, you know, whatever. There's always, there's always stuff like that. It's just, it feels, I think it feels different to us in America now because it's easier to transmit those thoughts because of the internet. And so we just see them more and, you know, now, I don't want to get too far down a rabbit hole, but I do think they're, There is a way that that has been weaponized recently that is presenting an actual danger to democracy. So that's, I think that is, I actually do think that is happening and it's, it's scary. And, um, but that's, oh, that's a whole other podcast. Let's just pretend that's not happening. Although actually the topic you want for today is I think contributing to the complete democracy around us. A little
Malcolm:bit. Yeah, cause, I mean, so yeah. Internet. The airnet. And the internet. The web. The world wide web. The interwebs. Um, so, I mean, for one thing, yeah, it's definitely something where, I think it's actually great. You realize way more things about the world now because of the internet. And so I think there's good parts of that. And then of course you have the usual people who are manipulative and everything. And so I think the internet has made it easier and harder for that. Because you can fact check way easier, but so many people just choose not to and just like accept what they read on the internet. as true. And I think what's hard is that people, and this is a hard one because usually you have trusted sources. Well, trusted sources also aren't always right. Even if their intent is good, they might just not always be right. And so usually when I'm subscribed to something, whether that's literally or just I follow it on the internet, I usually have two or three of those things that I am, um, Like watching for it at or looking at the same time Because I mean I want to make sure I have the correct information or Um, sometimes it's also just interesting and so it's good to hear different people's perspectives but uh I have noticed recently that like You know, obviously a lot of people know that there's an algorithm on the internet like depending on what you consume Yeah, or even what you talk about outside of the internet will basically gear what's happening on your internet. Mm
Tana:hmm.
Malcolm:Um, so that way it captures you more.
Tana:Mm hmm.
Malcolm:And I don't know if it's just because of, uh, The way like you guys have taught me or maybe it's just the way that I am Or anything like that, but I don't really get caught up in stuff a lot of time on the internet uh, and I think some of that maybe just Comes from my adhd. I don't know like I might just genuinely not be able to Give a shit Like I think My my focus just sways too easily On stuff that is not interesting to me Uh, but, you know, I've noticed that with my, like, friends and stuff, that, uh, my one friend, it'll always be critiques, it'll always be, um, people viewing, so, not necessarily critiques, but people viewing stuff negatively, like, like, They always see all of the negative things about something. And so they always, so unless it's like a really good thing where a lot of the positive outweighs the negative, then a lot of time they view stuff as negative because that's what they're always seeing online, because that's what they always click on. And I think for me, I like to hear people's interesting thoughts about thoughts about something. And so there's some negative stuff, but a lot of time I also hear positives because I like, I like that stuff that kind of gives you pause and be like, Oh, you know, it's actually not as bad as I, as I thought it was, or like praising people for doing something amazing with little or something like that. And so I always feel like I get much lighter and lighter side of the internet, I guess. Um, then I don't know if that's what like I get more than a lot of people do, but
Tana:yeah, it's always interesting to me when I need to set up a new, uh, Google, um, workspace because like, so I will, uh, most of the organizations I work, I, I work for, um, We'll use Google Workspace for there. Office stuff, right? Yeah. Which means I set up, um, I use the, the Google Chrome, um, Oh, what do they call them? Profiles. Like, so I don't have to worry about logging into like my personal email and my work email on the same. I just have the whole separate profile. Right. And so, um, if I need to look at something on YouTube on my work one, well, I'm not signed in as my personal, you know what I mean? And so I just see a blank. Homepage, that is. Completely different than mine, right? Like because mine has been algorithmed to To what you know,
Malcolm:it really just throws random crap at you Well when it doesn't yeah when it doesn't
Tana:have your information, it just i'm assuming it goes with what's most popular
Malcolm:Yeah, it probably does and it's
Tana:very fascinating to me every time because i'm like, oh wow I'm, just really not interested in what's most popular. I'm like like this does not interest me like it's usually like prank things and like You Um, I mean, there's always at least one Mr. Beast thing in there because, you know, why, why wouldn't there be? Um, and, but it's always, it's always very like, I don't know how to explain it. More like popular culture. Um, not anything very like, it's all surfacy stuff, you know? Yeah. Um, and. So, it's, it's very interesting because in that way, algorithms can be very good because then you can find more of what you like, right? You know, like, there are certain people I've, uh, or channels I subscribe to on YouTube that, um, You know, either provide really interesting information or they, um, provide a type of entertainment I like. You know, like I like College Humor, um, I really like, um, Brennan Lee Mulligan, um, Uh, there are certain musicians, you know, I like, so when they come out with a new video or something, that'll pop up on my, you know what I mean, like, I like that stuff, and I like a lot of, um, organizing, um, you know, how I like to organize things.
Malcolm:Organizing videos can be very satisfying. They are very, very satisfying,
Tana:because it's just like, it's almost like an ASMR kind of a thing, like, you know, like, Even if it doesn't have the sounds for it, it's almost like an ASMR for the eyes. Like, you know, you see all this chaos and it becomes ordered and it's just lovely. Um, so like, and it just feeds me more of that. That's great. But then like where it becomes, where it can become dangerous is when it just feeds you more of the same ideology. And then, Yeah. Just kind of pulls you down a more extreme version. So, and I noticed this happening one time because I needed to do research on something. I don't remember what it was, but it was like, it was like kind of like a, like a far right, um, conspiracy theory kind of, it may have been the, the red pill stuff. Um, which I really hate. They, they used the like red pill blue pill thing of the matrix to be like, I don't remember which color it was in the movie that you took to wake up to reality. Um, I don't remember. It must be the red pill actually. Cause I think they say like you take the red pill and then you, I think being red pilled means you've woken up I think is what their whole thing is. Um, weird. And, and, and their, their, their wake up is that, you know. Men are superior, and um, you know. So
Malcolm:ironically, waking up is not woke? Yes,
Tana:this is correct. But it's a very like angry, masculine, um, not masculine. I think masculine is a neutral term. Um, macho, Toxic masculinity, you know, like it's that kind of thing. And so I was doing some research on that and then the suggested videos started come up and it was first of all, first at first it was like Jordan Peterson and then maybe like some Ben Shapiro and things like that. And then it just like, Like, so I was like, okay, I'm going to, cause they were talking about the same subject. So I was like, okay, I'm going to click on some of these, see what they say. And then it was just like, I could see the like it getting more and more extreme as I clicked through different videos. And I was just like, dang, this is how kids like teenage boys in particular end up falling into these like extreme ways of thinking. Because maybe the first thing they watch is um, you know, they're curious and maybe the first video isn't, isn't that bad. Or maybe it's even like middle of the road, you know, maybe, uh, maybe it's a, maybe it's a moderate politician talking about like asking some questions that are legitimate questions. Um, that, you know, these far right people will have a terrible answer to, you know, and then they go down this path. And then they end up being like conspiracy theorists and, you know, believing QAnon and, you know, going around being jerks.
Malcolm:Being jerks.
Tana:Yeah.
Malcolm:Uh, yeah. I think, do you know those like Spotify algorithm memes where it's like my, it's like my Spotify trying to figure out, find an algorithm for me. Cause they
Tana:like all these different kinds of music or whatever. Yeah. I
Malcolm:feel like that's just how my. General algorithm is for everything because I mean, I think you guys know it's like anytime I have a question I just look it up.
Tana:Yeah, like
Malcolm:and a lot of people don't think of that first of all, but then it uh It probably just confuses my because I'm always just asking like the most random shit ever And so then my algorithm's like, all right, I don't know what to do with this new information.
Tana:Does it ever feed you like random videos? That's like, what does this mean or whatever?
Malcolm:Um, I mean, I do like a lot of science videos and a lot of like, I was going to say therapy videos, but it's more psychology videos, I guess. That's
Tana:probably what it
Malcolm:does. And so, It's probably just using that and it's pushing it over to the science and psychology question area. Yeah. Um, but no, I think sometimes it just, it just continues to feed me the things it knows I'll watch because it just gets confused with the stuff that I'm adding to it. And so then, and so then it's just like, all right, we're just going to throw the next episode of your video game series you've been watching at, at you because you're clearly not, you know,
Tana:Yeah, because the algorithm's job is to keep you on YouTube.
Malcolm:Yeah.
Tana:Like, that's, you know what I mean? That's the job. It's not, it's not to, um, I mean, in a way, it's to make you happy because that will keep you on YouTube. But, uh, I mean, I, I think sometimes we forget that that's the purpose of these algorithms. It's all based on, um, sales, revenue, clicks. I just get, I
Malcolm:just get bored. Because I'm not actually doing anything, I'm just watching people do stuff, and I don't like watching people do stuff. So, yeah.
Tana:He says I come down so many times and watch you watch a video of someone else playing a video game.
Malcolm:Yeah.
Tana:That's watching somebody do stuff.
Malcolm:Yes, but I still get bored of it pretty quickly. It's not like something I'd sit around and do all day. Um, and I feel like a lot of the time you see me doing something on my computer while I'm watching.
Tana:Oh, that's true. You are doing something. That's the thing I can never understand is like how you handle so many channels in your brain at the same time. Like, I can't
Malcolm:If I'm not doing it, then I can't focus on the thing that I'm
Tana:Like, I, I do not get that. I remember when you were in middle school, I'd be like, Malcolm, why are you doing all this stuff? You should be doing your math homework. You're like, I am doing my math homework. And I'm like You're watching TV and doing my math homework. And I'm like, Hmm, I don't understand how that's possible. But yeah, I mean, I can do I do need a certain level of. I'm not always, I sometimes need a certain level of like distraction, quote unquote, like
Malcolm:stimulation.
Tana:Yeah, I guess. I mean, the brown noise, I find the brown noise to be very helpful in helping me focus. But a lot of times if it's just like completely quiet, I'm like, okay, I need something like, And oftentimes, even just the sounds, like if I have my window open, just the sounds of, um, you know, cause we're so close to the park, like kids playing around the playground or whatever. It kind of
Malcolm:makes its own.
Tana:Yeah. It's like, like everything. And then dogs barking and people walking up and down the sidewalk. Like it makes enough of like a kind of background, you know,
Malcolm:I think I don't like chaotic backgrounds. I can't
Tana:do chaotic,
Malcolm:but that's what's chaotic to me. I don't, I don't know. I think it's different
Tana:for every person.
Malcolm:Cuz like, I don't know what's going on. Like, I don't, I don't know why the dog's barking. I don't know why
Tana:I think if it was like, June, like our old dog, in the living room barking constantly, that would be, that would be distracting to me.
Malcolm:Like Yeah, it's either, it's either way for me.
Tana:Yeah, I, I I really think that is a per person thing because I know people who are like, you know, they'll put on death metal and then they'll be able to like write a paper. And I'm like, that would prevent me from writing a paper. Like, I cannot, there are certain types of music that I just can't listen to because I feel like it scrambles my brain. Like if it's too like heavy and loud, there may be some times I'll go for that, like in a very specific circumstance. But
Malcolm:So for me, if it's like If it's new stuff I haven't experienced before, then I usually can actually do it without other stuff.
Tana:I
Malcolm:actually prefer it sometimes because I don't want to be distracted from the new thing I haven't experienced yet. But I like to re watch shows all the time. Like I re watch Star Wars or re watch the MCU or like one off movies or shows all the time. Yeah. And so those are very easy to put on and then do something else. And so my main focus is the thing that I'm actually doing. And then secondary, I'm like rewatching stuff.
Tana:Yeah, I can't. Um, if something has words to it, I can't have it playing and be doing stuff cause then I want to sing along. And even if it's like classical music, but I'm very familiar with it. I can't. You want to hum along? Yeah, I'll be like da da da da da da da da da da and I'll like start conducting and stuff. And I just, I can't. So, uh, yeah.
Malcolm:That's how I with the Captain America music.
Tana:Oh yeah, because you would just hum along with
Malcolm:yeah. Yeah, anytime that comes on I have to stop what I'm doing and like watch whatever scene it is because it's such a brain capture for me.
Tana:Yeah, so, yeah, it's There are other times though where I feel like I need my brain to be occupied by something. I don't know why. I don't know. I haven't figured out the whole ADHD thing.
Malcolm:But, uh, But
Tana:anyway.
Malcolm:Yeah. I think another thing that's hard is, um, resisting clickbait.
Tana:I
Malcolm:hate clickbait. Because there there are some things where it's like this is actually what I would want to watch, but are you the channel that's actually going to give this information to me?
Tana:Yeah, there's also that and um, I have stopped clicking on things where it's like she struggled with this and then she did this and everything changed because it's never dramatic. Like that, you know what I mean? And also, um, the political things especially will be like, you know, so and so just destroys the opposite side's argument. And it's like destroys is used liberally there, you know, like it's not, but it's made that way to get you to click. But I hate that because it's always a lie. Like, it's not, it's not destroyed. It's, it's, you, you pushed back. Okay, good.
Malcolm:There was one recently with, uh, Tatiana, um,
Tana:Mazlani?
Malcolm:Yeah. Uh, where it was her and, oh my gosh, who was it?
Tana:I don't know. I was impressed that I guessed Mazlani.
Malcolm:Uh, She Hulk.
Tana:Yeah.
Malcolm:Yeah.
Tana:But you didn't say that.
Malcolm:No. Um, but it was her and some other MCU person that apparently got in like an argument or something like that. Nope, nowhere. It was just like a thing that a couple channels just like put up and it never actually happened. And so I never clicked on the videos because I was like, this is too many caps. Like there's too many capital letters here. And so like I looked it up and all I could find were, were like three or four YouTube videos from like, Three or four YouTube channels that are all like similar titles about this and I'm like, okay This is so fake because yeah
Tana:Yeah There's also clickbait pictures That'll be like, where are these, uh, child actors now? And we'll show a certain child actor, but then the article will not include that child actor. And I'll be like, but that's the actor I wanted to know about. Yeah. Yeah. So I just, I just don't click on that stuff because also that usually goes to some page. That has a million ads on it, so it takes forever to load, and, you know, it's like So what I usually do
Malcolm:with, with clickbait is I see it and then I just, I look it up separately. That's what I
Tana:do, especially if it's like you click on it and you're like, Oh, it's one of those pages that has all these ads on it. I'm just going to look up the story myself. Because they'll also, it's always terrible writing and I just want to like Um, and they'll be like, so what's going to happen with this? Wait till you read. This person thought they were going to get it, but they had another thing coming. Like it's always terrible writing. And then they like expand the story so long.
Malcolm:What's nice about opera is, uh, the browsing. Uh, site,
Tana:by the way. Segway! What's
Malcolm:nice about the opera?
Tana:The opera?
Malcolm:Uh, no, what's nice about opera is that you can actually put in specific sites that will be looked up first when you look stuff up. So, for all my, like, video game stuff or, like, my movie stuff that I like, it always comes up with certain sites. articles first.
Tana:Oh, okay. So, okay.
Malcolm:Which is super nice because sometimes a random one off article from this like crazy, stupid news, quote unquote, um, website gets put on top.
Tana:Yeah.
Malcolm:And it's just not
Tana:Well, and all of that comes back to gaming the algorithm, right? Like, Google is always changing its algorithm and then people are always trying to change the way they word things. to game the algorithm to get the most clicks. And that just makes it a game rather than anything about information or, you know,
Malcolm:is a marketing technique. Yeah. It's 100 percent
Tana:the titles you use the, yeah, it's, um, oh gosh. Yeah. Key keywords, key phrases. It's the other thing that I don't think people realize. I actually, I think people are, I think it's become more well known now, but there was a time when people would view algorithms as somehow, like not biased in any way they were like it's it's interesting because a lot of people did the same thing with science for a long time and I want to start off by declaring that I believe in science and science is a good thing but
Malcolm:declaration made
Tana:yes however you can design scientific studies experiments whatever to be biased. Like you, you can have bias in a study and you can have bias in an algorithm. And
Malcolm:like vaccines cause autism,
Tana:right?
Malcolm:He literally found autistic kids.
Tana:I don't remember that guy's deal, but I know it was false. So
Malcolm:he basically made his own control study. So that way it would look a hundred percent, like basically he just controlled the data because he didn't actually have. the right set of data to start. He just basically made the end data the start data.
Tana:Oh, I gotcha. I gotcha. Yeah, I remember he falsified his results, but I didn't remember what he did. But yeah, and so like, I mean, now unfortunately we've gotten to a point where because people didn't like science, they've convinced people not to trust science at all, like certain people, you know, and that is just,
Malcolm:that's how it's starting to be more and more like period.
Tana:Yeah. It's, it's very, it's, it's, it's very fascinating, but, but real quick with the algorithms, um, is, uh, you, the algorithms have to be programmed by somebody. So bias can be introduced. And, and I just, I, I, the, the unfortunate thing is, like I said, for the longest time people wouldn't recognize. They'd be like, well, but this scientific study says X, Y, Z. And I'm like, okay, well, you still need to vet the study. Like, because there are also things where things are published in scientific journals, like that shouldn't happen.
Malcolm:And if you are presenting an argument in a scientific manner, you want more than one study.
Tana:Oh yeah, you definitely. So if
Malcolm:you were telling me that there's only one study for it.
Tana:Right, yeah, that's the whole thing about science. They, they look at the other, they look at a study and they go, oh we're going to try to replicate this and then they do it again and like, you know. The
Malcolm:worst is when, is when someone's like, I researched it. And so I know that this is true and I'm like I have also done the research, right? I like very clearly have not seen the same stuff that you write.
Tana:Yeah, it's something like how do I even
Malcolm:argue with do your
Tana:research? um, I have and Yeah,
Malcolm:I got in an argument with One of my co workers in my previous job about catching up with sleep
Tana:Hmm
Malcolm:And I was like, I, I know, cause I think she was just saying that like, she did the research and it's impossible. Like there's no such thing as catching up on sleep. And I was like, but there like literally is, I'm like, I've done it. Yeah. I'm like, I, like, I don't even have to like, although I have done studies. I don't even have to look it up because I've done it before.
Tana:If that was impossible, then if you had one bad night of sleep, then you would be tired for the rest of your life.
Malcolm:Yeah. Or I think, I think what, what it was is that like every day just resets. Oh, and so you're just like, and I'm like, there's a certain level of level to that. Like if you don't sleep one night, it's not that suddenly you have to get 16 hours of sleep the next night. Right. It's that you're probably gonna get nine hours instead of eight hours. Right.
Tana:Like your body, it doesn't, it's not an exact eight hour to eight hour
Malcolm:Yeah.
Tana:But there's like, yeah.
Malcolm:And so I think that's what her argument was. And I was trying to be like, I understand what you're talking about, but it's just not true. Right. But yeah, one, like, I, I feel like game stuff has been really getting complicated recently because, Uh, I don't know, I'm pretty sure I've talked about this before, but there's, like, game, when game journalism was new, a lot of it was, like, real, and it was, you know, people actually talking about games that they liked, and it was good game journalism, and now it's just oversaturated like everything else is. Hmm. And so now I, I have
Tana:Oversaturated with just, like, A lot. Just like there's a lot of it. Or is it
Malcolm:oversaturated? As in there's, there's a lot of it and some of it is correct. Some of it is incorrect. Some of it is like making an entire article over the smallest, stupidest detail ever.
Tana:Yeah.
Malcolm:And um. Like, I feel like especially recently people have been getting super into like Easter eggs and stuff like that. And so there's all of these articles have like this small Easter egg or small detail that you missed or like, Oh my gosh, this crazy Easter egg that someone just now found in a video game, which is rarely true. Usually people find it day one cause people are crazy and know how to find this crap fast.
Tana:What about that? Like, are you just annoyed about it? Or. I
Malcolm:mean, yeah, I get annoyed, but I just don't, I like, I just don't understand why.
Tana:I, well, I think that, I think part of it is the, like, beauty of the democratization of the Internet is that anybody can put stuff up there. Like, everybody has an opportunity. Then the problem that creates is that there's a lot of noise you have to muck through to find the thing that works for you.
Malcolm:Yeah.
Tana:You know what I mean? Um.
Malcolm:And it's hard because like, you know, you don't want to tell the algorithm to take out stuff that is untruthful because then untruthful becomes biased.
Tana:Well, and then you're also trusting the algorithm to decide what's truthful.
Malcolm:Yeah. And we definitely know not to trust chat GPT with that. So.
Tana:Well, I don't think there's anything automated you can trust with that. You know what I mean? I mean, there's,
Malcolm:there's, you
Tana:can't even trust people with
Malcolm:like, there's a, I know there's a joke online that, you know, Jacksepticeye is dead. It's just a famous YouTuber. It's just this joke that keeps coming up over and over again online. Uh, cause I, there was one really popular post where it's like, Oh my gosh, Jacksepticeye, Jacksepticeye is dead. And, uh, Jacksepticeye commented on it. It's like, oh my gosh, really? And then there was another one that blew up again where it was like, Jacksepticeye is dead. And then he was like, again?
Tana:There was like a long time ago, uh, I think it was before the internet, there was an author, I think that was like reported to be, uh, uh, dead, dead. Yeah. Um, I think, what is it? Uh, oh, it's a popular misquote of Mark Twain. Uh, it says, the reports of my death are greatly exaggerated. Oh yeah.
Malcolm:Uh, yeah. I, um, But like, ChatGPT has gotten it wrong before thinking that JackSepticEye is dead just because of all the posts. Yeah, because
Tana:it's, it's trawling for text and yeah. Yeah. So if enough people say something, that's the other thing. If enough people say something on the internet and ChatGPT is crunching that data, it's probably going to be like, Oh, this is. This is what's true, you know.
Malcolm:Now I will say, ChatGPT is still great for news, but you don't trust what ChatGPT sets. Like,
Tana:You always have to fact check it.
Malcolm:Yeah, like I, cause like I, um, my other podcast is based off of video game news. And, so, I set up a ChatGPT that literally gives me a weekly recap Of everything that's happened in video games. Oh,
Tana:that's nice.
Malcolm:And then I just look it up. Ooh,
Tana:that's a great idea.
Malcolm:Um, so yeah, it does all, I told it what websites to check. I told it, um, Like what games specifically or what genres, what stuff it doesn't need to pay attention to and then Like, that's the thing that's great about ChatGPT is that you can really make your own algorithm.
Tana:Yeah.
Malcolm:And, uh, and then all you have to do is fact check it, which is way easier to do than doing all of the research and then fact checking. Right, yeah. Uh, and so it's especially, I would say ChatGPT is an amazing resource, especially for people in the arts, because algorithm really can screw up so many art things for you.
Tana:I think it's a It can be a great resource for all types of things. I don't think AI should be creating art. I think that is a bummer.
Malcolm:Yes, and no. I don't think it should be creating art for monetization. I love using ChatGPT to create, create art for my D& D campaigns.
Tana:Yeah, I mean that's kind of nice that then like if you're just gonna personally use something and you're not gonna like you said not use it for monetization like I think that's really nice and helpful and you can just have something to be like Oh, this is what my character looks like to your friends like that's fine. Yeah, I hate that They're like, you can, you can tell when somebody has used AI to create an image for their like social media and like, because there's like, why does that person have an extra hand? Like it's like, you
Malcolm:know. I don't think it's always, I actually don't think it's always a problem. I, I think I think it's when big companies do it when they like lay off a bunch of people. Yeah, that kind of sucks
Tana:because you're like You can afford to hire a real
Malcolm:person And the stuff that you'll get is going to be better and people are going to like you better because it's going to be Real art and it's not going to be crappy stuff, right? Yeah um
Tana:Yeah, that's what I'm concerned about. I'm concerned about artists getting replaced by AI, which I think will be disappointing overall and will be degrading to the art.
Malcolm:But here's the thing is that, I mean, everything is, is AI already. And that's what I think a lot of people don't realize is that before Chat GPT, AI was still 50 percent of our lives because, Algorithms themselves are AI. Anytime you search something on Google, you're using what's basically a chat GPT, except for instead of giving you a typed response, it gives you an article response.
Tana:Grammarly is AI.
Malcolm:Grammarly is AI. Um, any, yeah, any autocorrect program, whether that, whether that's text or something else is going to be
Tana:AI.
Malcolm:I mean, basically any program ever is some level of AI. And so what you need to do is you just need to figure out how the AI works. And I think that's where ChatGPT is a great resource because if you figure out how to talk to ChatGPT to get exactly what you want, you can figure out how to use an algorithm on YouTube, on Google, on Facebook, etc. to get exactly what you want. And so what I think a lot of people need to, I think the general consensus of this, this whole podcast to kind of start wrapping it up. Is that, you know, like you You can't really blame the internet for what you're receiving you have to you have to cultivate it.
Tana:Mm hmm.
Malcolm:And Hmm that's something a lot of people don't realize is that you have complete control over it. I mean obviously not like complete complete control over it, but You need to like if there's stuff that you know, you shouldn't be watching then just don't watch it and And I realize it's harder Being done in what is said. But try to actually focus on stuff that you actually think you'll find interesting because the more and more that you watch it, the more and more it'll be recommended to you. And if there are certain things that you realize are toxic, then you need to start backing up on that.
Tana:And
Malcolm:everything like that.
Tana:Yeah, because the algorithm will give you more of what you're doing.
Malcolm:Yeah.
Tana:So, yeah. Um, by the way, I, I did want to, you said about Easter eggs or not. Yeah. Easter eggs. Yeah. I did want to say I did see something the other day that I was like, I didn't notice this and this is super cool with, um, Oh my gosh, I've forgotten the actor's name. Oh no. Uh, he played Oroboros in, uh, Loki.
Malcolm:Gotcha. Yeah.
Tana:Um, so he was also Data in the Goonies and Short Round in Indiana Jones.
Malcolm:Yeah.
Tana:And, um, The, I did not notice that the belt he's wearing is the same belt he wore for Data in Goonies. Oh, really? And they show his baseball cap from being short round is hanging on his bench.
Malcolm:That's cool.
Tana:Yeah, I was like, oh man, I totally missed that. Anyway, sorry. So there was a good Easter Egg videos. Oh, yeah,
Malcolm:there's, there's always great Easter Egg videos. I love watching stuff where it's like, um, Oh, breaking down this movie or whatever. I don't like doing it for trailers because then a lot of the time, you know, their theories may be correct or incorrect and I want to make my own theories off of it and I don't want to see all the hidden details that'll give away stuff.
Tana:You know what? There is one other thing I wanted to say about the algorithm stuff is sometimes I really hate when the kind of preview of a video doesn't really work. It doesn't
Malcolm:match it.
Tana:It doesn't match the video or like the video doesn't follow through. And then what you've done is you've taught the algorithm that you like that kind of video. And then you just get more of it. Like, like it'll either be like an incomplete video or it's weird, especially on Facebook. It is.
Malcolm:It's actually really rare for clickbait channels and stuff like that to Be very popular. There are a few really popular ones just because I, I don't know, people are like ignorant. Of that stuff sometimes, but.
Tana:Well, I can tell you, I have clicked on the same one, like multiple times thinking it was like, like a real trailer for a movie. And then I'm like, Oh, this is a fan produced trailer. Yeah. And I finally saw the thing where it was like, don't show videos from this channel on my feed. And I was like, okay, click, you know? So now I won't accidentally click on that anymore. You know? So,
Malcolm:yeah. And you know, there's so many, so many things like that. Stuff doesn't tell you where, you know, you can actually like really control the algorithm. You can tell, like, you can use and or not gates to look up stuff on Google. And, um, and for those who don't know, and or not gates are stuff that a lot of programs are based on where if you say, This thing, but not this. It will literally give you those things, but not the other thing. Obviously, it's not one to one because AI isn't always good at reading what you're saying. And so sometimes if you're not very, very specific, it'll still give you the thing you said not to, but it'll give you less of it.
Tana:Yeah.
Malcolm:And, uh,
Tana:and I think, yeah, I think What I would take away from this conversation or what I would suggest is for entertainment purposes of, like, your enjoyment, curate an algorithm that will give you more of what you want. For purposes of remaining a functioning member of this society and keeping your critical thinking skills sharp. Try not to completely make your algorithm all just one's, like, political side of the spectrum or something. Because what'll happen is you'll get the more and more extreme political versions of that. Yeah. Of whatever it is. Yeah, of whichever side, and then what you'll get is Um, the bombastic versions of things, and the, um, incorrect things, and the clickbaity things, and, um, we'll lose all nuance in political conversation, which has pretty much already happened. So.
Malcolm:Uh. Yeah.
Tana:And, you know, you can easily become a conspiracy theorist.
Malcolm:That goes for negative and positive things too. If you start watching a lot of negative things, you're only going to get negative stuff, like channels that are very negative. And if you watch stuff that's very So, like, if you're someone who's like a movie critic or a video game critic or anything like that, I would really implore to watch stuff that, um, Is more positive and because usually the more positive stuff still gives negatives like oh, I really didn't like this but Here's all the good stuff. Yeah.
Tana:Yeah, because there are critics where it feels like they're just always looking for whatever's wrong in the movie Like and so i'll be like, oh, I like the movie and they're like this was crap.
Malcolm:I absolutely love cinema wins
Tana:Cinema wins. Okay. Yeah
Malcolm:on youtube because there's cinema wins and there's cinema sins It's like, you know all of the Like everything great about this movie or everything wrong about this movie And I only watch cinema wins because first of all the guy is like one of the most wholesome people that I've ever heard on the internet like ever Takes note
Tana:I'm writing it down
Malcolm:Like he's one of those people where it's like you listen to him and you're like I kind of just want to like be your Friend.
Tana:Yeah, like
Malcolm:I love
Tana:people like that
Malcolm:and but he's he's still like He does stuff where it's like, I know that this isn't like the most fan favorite thing, but I just really like how this is done here, here, and here. And it's like, you know, it really allows you to have a more positive outlook on stuff. And so, you know, almost trying to fix the algorithm online is going to also help with your internal algorithm as a person.
Tana:Honey, that was beautiful. It was, that was actually a wonderful thought.
Malcolm:Um, so
Tana:Oh, now I want to think about internal algorithms. That's really interesting.
Malcolm:Uh, yeah, because I think a lot of people try to think about how to improve themselves without trying to improve external things first, because usually you have to improve external things to improve internal things about someone.
Tana:Um, I think you can go either way. Start from either direction.
Malcolm:Maybe. It's hard to change. I feel like it's harder to change your thinking without changing your thinking. Like The people who you hang out with or the stuff that you watch or because then they just bring you back around to it
Tana:Mmm, that's a whole other topic. It is. Alright, we're done for today. We're
Malcolm:done.
Tana:Yeah, so uh, yeah,
Malcolm:well
Tana:Time
to go.