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Who On Earth?
Who On Earth?
The Spiritual Codes in Film: Craig Seaton on Star Wars, The Matrix, Avatar & More | Who On Earth?
He’s back. And this time, he’s armed with a lightsaber, a sandworm, and possibly a blue tail.
In this celebratory return of friend of the show Craig Seaton (remember him from Season 1, Episode 2?), we go full popcorn-mystic and deep dive into the spiritual, symbolic, and mythic threads running through six of the most iconic stories ever beamed onto a screen:
Star Wars (of course)
Lord of the Rings
The Matrix
Avatar
Dune
The OA
Together, we unpick the ancient truths, soul codes, and initiation journeys woven into these cinematic epics—through laughter, big questions, and the occasional impersonation of a Jedi mid-meditation.
Spoiler alert & public service announcement: If you haven’t seen any of the above, sort your head out. Cancel work. Ghost your family. Ditch your mates. And start binging—because this episode reframes these tales in ways you won’t forget.
Craig, as ever, brings his blend of reverence and humorous truth-seeking, reminding us why storytelling is the original spiritual technology.
Connect with Craig Seaton
Craig’s Dream Healer discount code - CRAIGSEATON10 (available on the Meditation with Michael website)
Instagram | @craigseaton_
Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/craig.seaton.3
Connect with Michael Hill
Website | www.meditationwithmichael.co.uk
Linktree | https://linktr.ee/medi...
Instagram | @meditationwithmichael
Facebook | MeditationwithMichael
TikTok | @MeditationwithMichael
This episode is sponsored by:
TRANSMUTE STUDIO
Instagram | @transmute_studio_uk
Facebook | https://www.facebook.c....
Website | www.transmutestudio.co.uk
The projection of ourselves onto the hero and how we relate and what we feel and what they go through or even the bad guy and the ideals, there's parts of us that it's always resonating to. That's why storytelling is the oldest form of teaching and connecting. There's this Christ-like imitation from the movie that he dies and then he comes back to life. And the point that I think which is important for the resurrection is love. Trinity kisses him, and that's when his heart beats again. Love and the merging of masculine and feminine and duality.
SPEAKER_02:Hello there. Star Wars enthusiasts will get that. Hello there reference. This one is Return of the Craig. Do you all remember Craig Seaton from episode two in season one? Beautiful person. loads of great uh offerings as well like his breath work his lucid dreaming his yoga go check him out it's really good but now that he's told us a story about who he was we can have little deep dives like we did with echo so he's one of my only friends that's very into the spiritual side understanding the depth behind the reality that we're exploring but he's also a massive fucking nerd just like i am so we love well i'll give you a heads up The whole episode is us looking at the spiritual depth, the themes behind some of our favourite films and the TV show, just for fun. The six are, because I'm going to give you a spoiler alert, Star Wars, obviously, Matrix, Lord of the Rings, Dune, the show will be The OA, and then obviously we have to throw a little Avatar in there. So those are the six films and show that we're looking at. If you haven't seen them yet... sort your head out like they're fucking such a good show such a good show and films that i can't believe you've not seen them but if you've not this is your opportunity to just pause this episode go and absolutely awaken some new reality where star wars or dune or lord of the rings or what have you can just show you the beauty of story then come back to me and craig now that's pretty much it in a nutshell i don't really need to go much more into it and before i do craig because he does elusive dreaming was a massive advocate of the dream healer so he's one of our facilitators so if you use the discount code um i think it's craig seaton 10 But let me double check. I'll put it in. You should probably know that before I do the intro. But I'll put it in the description for you and it'll get you a little discount off the Dream Healer. For those who don't know about the Dream Healer yet. Well, Craig's working with it because he does lucid dreaming. He does dream yoga, all that sort of stuff in the dreamscape. And this has blue lotus flower. If you don't know about that, go check them all out anyway before you buy something. Blue Lotus Flower, Mugwort, Bob Insana from Peru, Rose Petals, Organic Apple Cider Vinegar, as Bobby, our medicine man who makes it, says, we don't put poison with the medicine. And then Vanillapod's a little bit of sweet to help the medicine go down. And the whole point is lucid drink. vivid dreams restfulness from even if you don't have that straight away sometimes it takes a bit of time to work with it just the restfulness afterwards because of the quality so go check out those ingredients and then if you want use Craig's discount code on the website get a little bit off now they sell very quick so yeah little heads up for you and then we've also got the Aoife spray so the Aoife spray the Agua de Florida is the first one and this one's an aura cleanser I hesitate my word for it, obviously. The smell doesn't come through the intro, but it smells bloody lovely. And that's how you cleanse your aura from inside, not from without, because the chemical compounds of each element of that ether spray then trigger these emotions that come with sensations. And that's how we change the aura from within, not from without. We're not spraying away your sins, although that'd be really nice. I could do that. So they're the two products. They'll be on the Meditation with Michael website. So now I've done that shameless plug in, but really ethical, natural quality products. I'm happy to do that. We'll just have a few words from Transmute. I'll tell you what. I'm getting ahead of myself before I do. So this show can grow and we can have more Jedis joining us like our Craig and myself. Then your likes, although it seems like nothing, that quick like allows the algorithm to know that people actually like the show. And then if you're sharing it. that helps obviously just spread it which again helps grow the show and the whole point is that helps me spend more time bringing even more fantastic we just have this thing where we're like oh my god who have we got on next like for example the next one because of all your help from just getting me out there more i've got a native american elder coming on the show there you go i mean so i'll tell you more about that in the outro right so yeah and if you want to subscribe as well that obviously means you won't miss all these great guests all right enough of that let me tell you a bit about transmute studio It's a new season, but it's the same old sponsor, and that's Transmute Studio. Beautiful centre in the centre of Manchester, Northern Quarter. It's got loads of the old stuff like the African drumming, the African dance classes. They've got salsa now as well. They've got the beautiful Arrignani, ceremonial ecstatic dance with wizardry from the show, but also my alter ego DJ Moksha has made an appearance with his new ecstatic dance, Liberation. So, sound baths. Kundalini yoga, candlelit yoga, loads of beautiful events. It's all about wellness, culture, creativity. What's going to do a better job of explaining it than my little mouth is going down to the socials, the website and seeing it for yourself. So I'll put a link in the description. You could maybe come float in one of them hammocks with myself. But for now, guys, enjoy the episode. Peace and love. All right. You're in the room. All right. Well, thanks for coming back on the show. For those who haven't seen, Craig was actually the second guest they ever had. on season one of Who on Earth and you're a friend of the show, aren't you?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, I'm a friend of you. You run the show. I'm in.
SPEAKER_02:There we go. So last time we had a bit of a summary of what you offered, where we've come from, passions, obstacles we've overcome and that. I thought it'd be good though to rather than just be a summary of somebody, you can't summarize somebody, we can actually find out who you are more through one of your main passions that also aligns with myself and that's looking at spirituality but Well, we're massive nerds, aren't we? Massive nerds. Massive nerds. I'm literally wearing a Star Wars shirt, for those who can't see. June t-shirt. The dark side made me do it June. That's why I was watching that last night, didn't you? Yeah, man. Not that that's in the topics. Before we do that, though, would you mind just giving the people a little taste of what Craig offers? A little sprinkle of Craig. A little sprinkle of Craig for the people
SPEAKER_00:in there. All right. We'll do some breath. We'll do a little breath. Yeah, a little bit of breath, eh? So... it'll be a short one for those who are at home we can do this together sitting up straight spine nice and elongated muscles soft deep breath in through the nose and controlled sigh out and very simply following the breath in through the nose and out through the nose
SPEAKER_01:breathing in
SPEAKER_00:Breathing out. We'll bring a little cooling breath in. So to do this practice, which is a pranayama, we curl the tongue into a U shape. If you struggle to do that, you can just raise the tongue slightly in the mouth. And we breathe a long slow breath in through the mouth, past the tongue. And when that breath's in, a simple easy breath through the nose. When that breath is left, we come back in through the mouth, past the tongue, in the U shape. Exhaling through the nose, controlled and slow. Noticing the inhalation will be longer than the exhalation here. What we're doing with this breath is bringing coolness to the system. The breath in past the tongue collects some moisture from the tongue and the mouth, which helps cool down any fiery emotions, any agitated states, any frustration. It brings a coolness in to the nadis, the pranic channels, to the emotions, and to that state of mind. and the control on the exhale through the nose rather than just letting the breath drop out it keeps this calmness that we're developing I'd say two more of these steady long cooling breaths one together through the mouth over the tongue steady breath out through the nose gently pull the belly to the spine and hold emptiness there's no breath in the body here
SPEAKER_01:five more seconds
SPEAKER_00:release the belly deep breath in through the nose fill up Hold the fullness, soft shoulders, soft face. Gentle, controlled release through the mouth. Taking a moment to tune in with how you feel. Any
SPEAKER_01:difference from that short breath practice. Gently coming back around, opening the eyes.
SPEAKER_02:And here we are. Very nice. Very nice. I wanted to bring that in because although we could sit here absolutely nerding out as we do usually when we're in our own time, I just thought this has got that spiritual background and a great way to sort of align the mind, body and spirit is through the breath. I always make a shit joke, you know, you've got a lot more to worry about than meditation or breath work if you haven't got a breath. So... You've always got the breath. That's your little guide. And if you don't have that, surrender, bitch. You're going somewhere. So, it's been a little while. It was literally the second episode I ever did when you came on graciously the first time. So do you want to just catch up with the audience on what's been going on since then, brother? When was it, man? Right, well, we were watching Ahsoka.
SPEAKER_00:Close to a year.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But over a year, I think now.
SPEAKER_00:Wow. Yeah.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:What's been happening since then? You've just done a big 500 people convention, was it?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, a conference. It was a conference for a company. This was over in Tenerife. Waves of Impact, the event was called. They were a business, but they have a lot of inspirational speakers. And it's a wonderful business, really. The foundation was on mindset. So they help their staff and people come along with doing what they do for business, selling. but very driven by mindset by what you think by what you're feeling and how you evolve that so this conference I worked with them last year Waves of
SPEAKER_02:Impact shout out to Waves of
SPEAKER_00:Impact yeah great man there's one of the leaders there the owner Ryan such a fantastic guy very heart led by his business and you know you see that and you feel that in certain people and it's great to see in the business world that There are those places out there that are driven by that for the betterment of their staff and to impact people with what they do. They sell water ionizers. It's combined in, so to work with them has been fantastic for the last couple of years. It was a breathwork session I got to put on for the 500 people there in Tenerife in this beautiful hotel. Because they had already had speakers before them, sort of priming their mind and opening them up. You know, when you drop into breathwork, like... They set them up and you just... Yeah, yeah. You know, people, they're open as opposed to getting people to warm up to where breathwork might take them, where the heads are at and where the hearts are at. They're already in that space. So, like, the breath just goes deep and the domino effect appears. And it's beautiful, man. And then they did a men's circle the next day for the 60 men there, which was... oh he's amazing you know to see guys going in and a lot of the majority of them had never done any of that kind of work before
SPEAKER_02:right okay I forget that because me and you were in deep in that world when somebody else is shocked by something oh I've not done an ecstatic dance so I've not done a breath of hope I'm like what?
SPEAKER_00:yeah because you're so used to being in that world I'm just used to
SPEAKER_02:all my friends because I'm just I love it now I've gone from being that party boy reckless doesn't know what he wants to do with life to like this is my purpose and then I think I just attract people like you but I forget not everyone's on that vibe so it must be really nice to just give those people a glimpse into what's possible.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, because it's breakthroughs for them. You get to put in years of experience and knowing what works generally for people and how you deliver that to someone who's never experienced those things before, but to hear how people's breath was and to hear... from the guys when we were doing the sharing, like, wow, it's just amazing, man. You know, life-changing stuff, really, if it's your first experience of something. Life-changing in the sense that they've not experienced that before, which could be anywhere, you know, not just with me or this place, but the opportunity. No, specifically with Mr. Craigson. That's the only way it's going to happen. As every good leader says, through me only, this is the path to salvation. Cool, it's coming soon. Give me your money and I'll get you in life. Yeah, man, seeing that, you know, and hearing from them and the connections that you get when you're in those shares It's just mega. Anything else at
SPEAKER_02:all that you think is noteworthy since we last spoke?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, I'm having a baby.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, he's having a baby. Little baby. Yeah, first one. Not here yet. First one. First one. You said it, I know of. First one. But you don't know what it's going to be either, do you? It's going to be a G. It's going to be a gangster. It's going to be a star, mate. It's like, you're dead. Cosmic, I imagine. Better come out enlightened than floating. The thing is, when I see the babies, I used to be scared of kids. Because for me, I was very using my mouth and my mind to sort of use that logic to make the world safe whereas children are chaos like they're just fully in the moment I can't reason with them so that used to scare me and then when spending to like a few close friends I had kids and I was like I was doing like mini meditators at the conscious classroom and nah they're closer to enlightenment than any of us they're in pure present state constantly just ah ha ooh but they're like one minute they're crying you pick them up and make them laugh and now they're laughing and it's gone let go let go they're so in flow so I think it will come out in light.
SPEAKER_00:You know what, man, on that, well, yeah, I mean, literally, they do come out in light. It's your job not to tighten it. There's, reading this book about the origins and history of consciousness, and it was a student of Jung's, and he puts it so well in this way of understanding, he uses archetype being a Jungian, and how... why this works with kids being closer to enlightenment and pure to source you know how people just love animals and babies there's that natural essence not just because like oh it's cute I mean there's a reason for those mechanisms not just physiologically but what's happening consciously that they've come out and they're still in the unconscious because they haven't got an identification ego they haven't got that structure yet so they're still in the unconscious archetype I think that's why we try
SPEAKER_02:and protect them so much I think that's why the people who hurt animals and the people who hurt children they're worse than your murderers they're worse than your genocide or dictated maniacs because it's like whoa how how could you like that is something to protect at all costs yeah we are the shepherds we are the guides the teachers to manipulate that from a place of power like to me that sickens me to my core a lot of work got to be done to make sure that victims create victims michael and all that was like eye-twitching moment so um This particular topic, I said, was going to be looking at the spirituality behind some of our favourite TV shows and films. Before we do that, do you mind if we do some selfless branding? Selfless branding? Please, please. There's no self involved with this branding. For those who can't see, we have a new product that we're doing called Aoife Drops, me and the local medicine man, Bobby C, who is also a G. This one's the Dream Healer. The reason I've chosen this one, if you want to hold it up to the audience, Craig, is because... Craig I actually got him to work with it because for those who might remember from the first episode he does a lot of work with lucid dreaming and dream yoga and I thought this would be very interesting because the dream healer is made from blue lotus flower mugwort, bobin sana, rose petals, and raw organic apple cider vinegar. And I thought, why not just see if Craig could shed a few words on his experience with it and sell it for me, really.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, man. Well, I've tried quite a lot of dream supplements in the past. It's a practice I've been doing for 11 years. One, just working with dreams, but specifically lucid dreaming, becoming conscious in the dream. You guys have seen Inception out there. You realize you're in a dream. then what you can do from that point is yeah what did you
SPEAKER_02:say you can imagine what the sky show me what you've got on the sky just open
SPEAKER_00:yeah yeah the sky and i'll be wake up in my dream and i'll be like okay show show me something incredible show me something beautiful and the sky would tear open all these nebula and galaxies and i would like wake up with tears of like ecstasy because it was like oh amazing but i mean this is a very base thing did we talk about in the last podcast yeah i think we did that's how i know about it because i just stuck with me that oh mate it's incredible but um to cycle this back in. So I've done, committed dream work. I see myself as a dream worker and use different products, different herbs, natural herbs. Kalia Zakatachichi being one of them, Mugwort using it on its own, as well as like 5-HTP and more synthetically created substances to use for the dreams. Galantamine, which they use for Alzheimer's patients, was incredible to use for memory and dream recall as a supplement. So yeah, I've done them all. And this one, I really loved it, man. And I can genuinely say that it's not just because it's you. I know you wouldn't bullshit me. Nah, I mean, for dream work, I wouldn't, because it's, true to my heart i wouldn't offer it out if it wasn't legit but this stuff it gives me very blissful dreams and it did from the first night it was active from the first night and when i say the blissful dreams like every time i was taking it one there's something intuitively in the rose petal that because i've not used it's why bobby put it it felt that would just bring that sort of soft vibe yeah it's really nice and it's like it adds a It's funny because out of the products, I've never tried the, what's the Balboa one? Bobinsana.
SPEAKER_02:Bobinsana. I think that's native to Australia, but don't, he's the medicine man, I'm just the mouth and the designer, but yeah, it's four things that he really thought about and then we wanted to remove any alcohol base as well. That's where the apple cider vinegar came in. By the time this comes out, by the way, we're just creating a new batch, Vanillapod. Vanillapod. I'm mindful that some people love the medicine taste. Some people want a little bit of sugar to help the medicine go down. And I don't want to ever sacrifice quality. I'm very about quality, ethical, natural. So I was researching what compliments apple cider vinegar vanilla pods right it'll be nice to try that mate because well you get a free bottle just for the
SPEAKER_00:nice words thank you man the um maybe like by the fifth or sixth night i was like and i got like this when i've done cleanses with apple cider vinegar okay the six or seven nights like you know because it's not massively strong the taste of the apple cider but it was like okay I'm not enjoying the apple cider vinegar now. That's a personal preference and how, like you say, medicine can be bitter or not. So to have it with this vanilla pod as an option, great idea. I'm up for trying that one. It's going
SPEAKER_02:to be pure medicine. It's the one that we've done first. Then there's going to be a vanilla pod one. This is an exclusive, by the way. There's going to be an orange peel one. Nice. And there's going to be a ginger root one.
SPEAKER_00:so
SPEAKER_02:those are the four options because i am mindful that we can say do it this way but
SPEAKER_00:i like
SPEAKER_02:it
SPEAKER_00:that
SPEAKER_02:way i like it you know some people i'm not going to big up some chip brands but some people have this version this version and this version and that choice yeah won't exclude certain
SPEAKER_00:people i think if it doesn't have an impact on what the medicine does like again that was the main thing mate i've had such raw diets before i don't care what it is like saying the apple cider vinegar even if i had to do it for 30 days i'd do it yeah but if there's something in it that sweetens that taste a little bit. And that's that nighttime experience. I like
SPEAKER_02:vanilla. You know, when people like use vanilla as a derogatory saying, I love the vanilla ice cream. That's a banging flavor. Like just so nice. And then if anyone is interested in the dream healers going forward, it'll be on meditationwithmichael.co.uk. But Craig's also going to have a 10% facilitator. No, what's the word? uh it begins with an a associate associate sort of code so you get 10 off just for you going through craig so reach out to him first go check out craig anyway i think that's enough should we get into the subject at hand i have made the first time ever another exclusive video on earth notes notes for us to go off and that's because i've picked six films and uh show And you've got some in your head. So I think we just go. We said sort of like you do one, I'll do one, and we'll just see if some of the ones in your head were on. Now, I think we may as well get the obvious one out of the way. We're going to probably do a full episode on this, we said anyway. But for those who can see, I'm wearing the dark side made me do it, Kylo Ren, the bad man. So we're going to start with Star Wars.
SPEAKER_00:Anyone in particular? Or are we just going for the whole thing?
SPEAKER_02:Original and prequel trilogies. Feel free to make it. Everyone's
SPEAKER_00:cutting out the sequels. It's one of them, isn't it? If you want
SPEAKER_02:to talk about him, we can talk about him. We've only got so much time. To be honest, it doesn't really matter because it's more just the subject. So what I was to look at, and we can talk Andor, we can talk Mandalorian, we can talk, I don't give a shit if it's a, what was, have you seen Stupendous Wave? They're a fantastic YouTube channel. I don't really care. Star Wars, Star Wars, Star Wars, Star Wars. So the first spiritual film, FEMA, what I was to look at was the force as a mystical energy. Yeah. And what my notes have put down was how it mirrors Eastern philosophy. So like Taoism, Buddhism with ideas of balance, non-attachment and enlightenment. So this first topic, the force has a mystical element behind it. So that was one of the things that always, for me, like made Star Wars stand out. And I think it's strange, like my girlfriend or like Josh from Transmute, they'll be like, I can't get into Star Wars. And I'm like, this is literally the shit you love. And for some reason, the thematic's putting you off. Maybe it's just because my dad brought me up on it. So you got into it. I know when we first spoke, that was one of the main things. So the force as a mystical element.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I mean, an introduction for me, I was very anti-Star Wars as a kid. And as a teenager, it's like not getting involved. Then as it got up, I was like... And then he saw the light. It was. It's like I got... If I got into a world or a story, specifically science fiction, I'd become all about it. I wanted to read every book. I wanted to know every detail. I liked that. I'd get into it. And Star Wars, as it seemed so big, I was like, nah, I didn't like Star Trek. I didn't like Star Wars, nothing like that. I always condemned it, man. I could never get into
SPEAKER_02:Star Trek myself. And I don't know if that's just because my dad was like, Star Wars is the way.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it would tend to be one or the other, wasn't it, when we were younger? But I wasn't interested in either of them, but loved science fiction anyway. I remember it must have been around, I was... 25, 26 and getting into this stuff. And, you know, I'd been into Buddhism, spirituality at that point. And it was, whenever the Force Awakens came out, I saw the trailer for it. I was like, that looks pretty cool, actually. It was like, the trailer looks good. Well, if I'm going to watch that, I need to know what's happened in the other films. Of course. And there's like, what, six? Kind of jumping at seven. Nah, nah. You're already jumping at four. Isn't it? It starts at four. So I was like, I watched them. Do you remember that first time? and I thought, you know what, I'm going to get high and watch this, roll the joint, lit it, watched the first Star Wars, and I was like, this is fucking mega. Can we swear? Oh yeah,
SPEAKER_02:fucking anything you fucking want, mate. To me, who on earth's who on earth? If you're someone who swears, then swear. When the emotion takes. For me, it's about being skillful, being articulate, and sometimes that swear word is the perfect word for what you're trying to say. I watched it, I had a smoke. and I love how you mentioned smoking weed and then was like but are we allowed to swear
SPEAKER_00:hey man it's like you know show
SPEAKER_02:us a bit of programming there that is society
SPEAKER_00:yeah oh completely I think any of the plant medicines it's how you use them what you use them for creativity art for me smoking marijuana was always very much a zoning in experience which is why I'd link it to cinematic experience or to sound or to somewhere picturesque is how I would use that plant one of my best memories of watching a movie was the first time I watched Blade Runner big TV you know it was an evening it was perfect the sound came on I lit a smoke Harrison Ford but for that sort of cerebral mind opening you know as we know plant medicines can be used well but it's about doing it
SPEAKER_02:with reverence and there's nothing wrong with play counts as reverence play is sacred as well as long as you're not doing it to just get away from how you feel feel how you feel first and then decide in a balanced state but for me like you said weed is so fantastic for just this and if you can ride maybe the waves of anxiety or frenetic that is breaking the veil from this state of consciousness to that you're going to have a beautiful experience
SPEAKER_00:yeah I didn't really ever experience that when I'm on my own watching something I'm just with I'm just there and like So you did this while you were watching Star Wars? So I did this for Star Wars, yeah, back on track to the movies. I did it with Star Wars and I was like, wow, because already I instantly saw so much of this connection to Buddhism for me because that was what I really had gotten into at that time and this idea of the force and the Tao through Taoism and Chinese philosophy and this connection through it all and being a big fan of samurai tradition and culture already. you're seeing them space fucking samurai you're like i'm sold they've got these light swords the lightsaber which is its own personification of something this weapon of light and and i was like wow you know because even the clothes like how they wear their robes and i was like mate this is this is for me yeah um you know and i do struggle to watch the first film now A new hope. Yeah. Spoiler alert, if you've not watched Star Wars, by the way. Yeah, come on
SPEAKER_02:out of these movies. There will be spoilers, guys. You might be a pre-Star Wars Craig Seaton. I'm not telling you to go get a spliff, but go get a spliff and then watch it.
SPEAKER_00:Do some breath work. Alternate stay conscious. You can do it for free nowadays. My
SPEAKER_02:meditation takes me to places. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Get some of Mikey's drops down. Get some of them
SPEAKER_02:bloody dream healers and whack a bloody prequel on or a sequel or an original.
SPEAKER_00:Whichever one it is. Why not The New Hope anymore? Well, I can still watch it if I'm going to go through them and I can get there. I think because of the way that the story is kind of slow to get going. Right. I still enjoy it. Don't get me wrong. I still enjoy it. Patience, Chris. Yeah, patience. It's like the prequels are for me. I know what you're saying. I could watch the prequels all the time. You love them more, Andy. Yeah, I'm more of a prequel guy. Okay, okay, okay. But with A New Hope and watching it and the journey and seeing a new space and Luke is obviously the... Probably the best archetype for the hero's
SPEAKER_02:journey. We're going to get to that, by the way. I've got literally Joseph Campbell and how George Lucas used pretty much that book that he did. I did have it in my notes. Hero of a Thousand Faces. That's it, yeah. We'll go into that. But for me, I love Taoism and Buddhism and it's the other way around. I think it's because I first loved things like Star Wars. I first saw the force. So when I'm seeing all this shit, and I was meditating for an hour this morning, and I'm using the force. I'm channeling the force, mate. That's all I am. All my brain's doing. And then, oh, mate, my girlfriend hates it. Every time, oh, I was trying to do this. I went, there is no track. do or do not which is why the Empire Strikes Back absolutely kicked New Hope's arse but there is no Empire Strikes Back without New Hope setting it up yeah use the force Obi-Wan's like an absolute G and let's be honest old school what was his name the guy who played Obi-Wan that's it yeah he's a That character, that archetype of Obi-Wan is just the ultimate. Like he, this AM, I was watching some things saying like his bringing it back to the Force as a mystical energy. He's not the most powerful. He's not the oldest like Yoda. He's not being able to do some of the shit that Darth Vader or Sidious can do. But he's the one who can... merge with the force the most completely which is why then that elevates him to such a like mastery role because he's not the most fastest the strongest but he's at one so like say when he's fighting he always just bosses Grievous doesn't he like hello there and the reason he can do that is because he actually realises the force is all and he is Grievous at the same time as he's Obi but he's remaining as Obi-Wan so he has this paradox of I am Obi And I'm not. And he feels when Grievous is about to do, because he's got like, sorry, if you don't know, you don't know. We're going to go nerdy. Grievous is like a cyborg, isn't he? He's like an alien. So he's got all these enhanced abilities, which have allowed him to kill Jedi, which means that for Obi-Wan to just make him look like a Muppet is because Obi-Wan already knows what he's doing. Because he has this Taoist of, you cannot speak of the Tao. You can't. You just are it. So he is the enemy and he's also Obi at the same time. And for me, I think that's why I ended up falling in love with meditation. There is no meditation with Michael because I'm not sold because it's already key. I've already done meditation. It's just the force. I'm a Jedi first and foremost. That's what I think really brought me to it. Another thing I wanted us to explore as well. Is there anything about the force that you think?
SPEAKER_00:I mean, there's a lot. I know it's big. You remember the point you're about to go into? So on the force then, just, yeah, everything you're saying, I think that was, and this is the unconscious pulls as well. Like, yeah, we can nerd out on it because we like these details and depth of story and the characters, which is speaking to a level. But on the unconscious point of what all movies are doing and why we're into movies is what it's speaking to our unconscious, like the projection of ourselves onto the hero and how we relate and what we feel and what they go through, or even the bad guy and the ideals. There's parts of us that it's always resonating to. That's why storytelling is the oldest form of teaching and connecting because we were doing it with cave drawings. I think it might be Campbell who says it, but the storytelling is how we now explain modern myth and legend. Movies are the new modern myth and legends. So like the Greek gods, what we do in movies now are our version of the Greek gods and the tales that they were told. Batman
SPEAKER_02:is just a version of Zeus. They're archetypes that show you energies that are inside you. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:whether it's
SPEAKER_02:the villain or the hero
SPEAKER_00:as well yeah well that point what you just said about Obi-Wan and Grievous and the projection onto the villain like oh that's bad I don't want to kill that get rid of that and then you've got the whole story which we're not there yet but with Anakin and the
SPEAKER_02:tragic
SPEAKER_00:downfall which is why the prequels are so cool by the way him alone
SPEAKER_02:him alone the it's just like that's worth watching
SPEAKER_00:his story is and I'm a cinema lover like I'm a proper cinephile they call it about movies and depth and like quality films like artistic indie films love all kinds of cinema I don't think there's a better tragedy in fall than Anakin's in anything I've ever seen because it's done perfect in how you get him into this into Vader and masterful that's why my mum doesn't like them though
SPEAKER_02:she's attached to the little boy in Phantom Menace and she can't stand that he becomes Darth Vader so she just was like nah
SPEAKER_00:yeah a good friend of mine she's the same she's like she can't let go that this cute little boy has turned into that but this is humanity Hitler was a little cutie at some point exactly
SPEAKER_02:look how that turned out not good bro not good at all with the Force as well I feel like the Jedi have gone down this almost religious dogmatic approach which is why the Sith feel the need to be the way they are in the first place to go that's not the only fucking way and I'm not having you just try and control the narrative and say this is the only way you can do it and there actually are if you really go into it different beings across the universe of Star Wars like some call it the Luminous Mist and there's different ones so The Jedi see the Force from a certain point of view. Yeah, yeah. But so do the Sith. And that brings me on to my next note, which is Jedi versus Sniff. This is what happened to Darth Vader. You took a line. You don't want to sell me Death Sticks. So Jedi versus Stiff. The Stiff.
SPEAKER_01:Bro. What's
SPEAKER_02:going on? Mindful Mike. All these fraudulent slips coming out. I can just feel these perverted parts. Let us express. So the duality of light and dark, basically. And the note I've made here is more than just good versus evil. This reflects the internal struggle with all beings. Inside us all, mirroring, as you already brought up, Carl Jung, his shadow work. So that's what I wanted to sort of go into then, this Jedi versus Sith, this good versus evil, this light versus dark. and obviously using Star Wars. What's your thoughts
SPEAKER_00:on that particular? Yeah, again, I think it's another massive unconscious pull as to why Star Wars is so effective and why it's the biggest franchise in the world. How mad is that? It's the biggest selling franchise in the world. The light and the dark, what you said about the Jedi Order, watching it so many times and going through, listening to stuff, reading stuff and getting new perceptions on what the purpose is of why Star Wars The order fell. I really like looking into that and to see the dogmatic approach. Order 66, for a reason, though. Order 66. Like, Palpatine's a genius, mate. He's like, total exploitation of flaws, but personal flaws and internal flaws and the idea of, say, an industry or an enterprise that thinks it's untouchable, even when they're doing good because everyone's a good guy. He did finger quotes for those who couldn't see good
SPEAKER_02:versus bad is lazy thinking, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. It's like, what is their goal and their point and how they were... not meant to serve a government as such and be an independent body, which is great. This idea of something serving the light is independent from any direction or one or bidding from even a government that wants to do good by its own establishment. But they eventually, they fell into that because of this manipulation of the war and their dogmatic approach, which brings in the idea of the suppression of Anakin's emotions. And they bring out what suppression and repression is when you've not got support around you or people that are like, no, no, the text says this. The book says go meditate on it. Not, man, I need to talk about my emotions though. I need you to hear me. I need some, you know, some help with it. And they're like, you know, they don't do that even when he's having, Anakin's having the visions and, you know, and Obi-Wan, his boy's like, no mate don't get attached to your girl and it's like it's not how it is because he's got a trauma easily said easily said especially that mother wound that he's got yeah the mother wound it's deep mate but to go into the light and the dark side Yeah, the balances of it. And you always see this struggle throughout for the main characters and Luke in the original trilogy. So when he's fighting Vader, he's about to go apeshit. He's like, bam, bam, going for it. I
SPEAKER_02:think it's when he cuts his hand off because Luke lost his hand and he sees that it's just me. It's just him. It's just fucking me I'm fighting, man. And he's like, I'd rather die than become that. Yeah. And that's why he says you've lost. Yeah. Because he's like, I know you're trying to control and manipulate and It's like, I don't know who said it, it might have been Ram Dass, and he's saying like a little thing where there's like this general, and he's taken over all this thing, the monastery, he's gone up to this, and the guy's like, there's this last monk, he won't fucking leave. It's like, I'll cut your head off without blinking an eye, and the monk just looks back and goes, I'll let you cut my head off without blinking an eye. Go on then, you ain't got that power over me. And I think it's more about bringing the balance of them both. We are humans, so we have, balance and the privilege of being able to hold light and dark you get this sort of like new age i'm not shitting on him but it feels very like positive light happy thoughts only and it's like but we're not that so it comes back to that suppression and it can try to suppress all these things all these fears which leads to the day but that's what causes darth vader and is i think it's more this is why people vibe off mace windu
SPEAKER_01:hmm
SPEAKER_02:I think out of all the Jedi or your Qui-Gon Jins, these are the guys who are a bit closer to using both. Yeah. Purple lightsaber, motherfucker. Because
SPEAKER_00:he asked for that, didn't he? And he got it. So then he made this lore behind it, which is great. But it actually is brilliant lore at the same time. Do you know what's... I think like thinking of those two, like bringing Qui-Gon and... Mace. Mace into it is like... Qui-Gon seems a bit more attuned to the light in that sense. I'm not saying Mace isn't, but just an instant comparison there because I think there's a bit of arrogance with Mace Windu because he's conquered that, or balanced that line, while Qui-Gon's like, you know, why is he not on the council when he's invited to? Because he sees... they've got a particular area around them while he wants to go and do the work where it's required and needed. The bureaucracy of that, yeah, just, no, I'm going to be in it. Yeah, he's free from that stuff. But Mace, on the other night, you saw that with his distrust for Anakin, which was right in a way, but also added to him going a certain way. Self-fulfilling prophecy almost, didn't it? Exactly. And it's like him as a teacher could have been able to help that if he didn't have that level of arrogance in him from mastering. And I don't know if it was in one of the comics that he had a Padawan who was teaching the Padawan to master the light and the dark side. and they've slipped into the dark side so it's kind of that's the wound that's now made him be a bit like potentially potentially but also like the difficulty of managing that and it's like he uses his awful Terry healthily but a bit overbearing as well yeah while Qui-Gon's like he's calm with it you know it's a shame he dies really
SPEAKER_02:or does he well talking about the force as in the force now he's more powerful than he could ever imagine before I move on to the next thing as well the sith What are your thoughts on them? Because I've been looking at the second schism where they first started and that they were all Jedis, but they were Jedis who were doing things that the main Jedis didn't agree with. There's this schism, they all fight each other, they lean more into it because of that. Eventually they get defeated because light always wins. And then they get excluded, exiled into space, but then they find, because the Sith is actually a race on a planet, and then these guys obviously are bad man Jedi from... and they take over the planet and da-da-da-da-da-da. What is your thought on the Sith approach?
SPEAKER_00:They developed the ruler too, don't they, based off how... To Darth Bane. Yeah, because of the dark energy, they can channel it better through too. They were always at war with each other and the idea of the apprentice killing the master has to happen and they know that. It's good ideas and thoughts, but you look at what it's cemented in and this separation at the start and I think where it comes across so well is the independence of Jedis as following... A moral code for lightness, not for self-gain at all. While the dark side is, well, I want to do this. Again, where do we find this borderline? If you want to do it, but what's the outcome? Where can it take you? Like with the lightning, is it Plo Koon? He can use lightning, force lightning and cause it force judgment or something. Jedi. Yeah, and he's a Jedi. Just for
SPEAKER_02:those who
SPEAKER_00:don't know who you are. Going a bit deep there. Those who aren't too nerdy. As opposed to the Sith who use lightning all the time and seeing these powers or methods of control, some are a bit too dominant to use and that's why they stay away from them. When Luke in Return of the Jedi, when he force chokes the big and they say it's very Anakin-like, but he's a level of mastery where he can use it appropriately perhaps while venturing into these Well, isn't that what happens with Riven? I don't know enough about that story and I
SPEAKER_02:don't want to know because I'm going to get to that at
SPEAKER_00:some point. Spoiler alert. Spoiler free.
SPEAKER_02:I'm trying to keep myself spoiler free on that one. One thing I wanted to bring up next, sorry, did you have? Nah. No, so the next bit is the hero's journey and self-discovery and I'm going to use my notes on Joseph Campbell as well here. So Luke and Anakin's paths, I had it down as it mirrors each other and it mirrors destiny but then personal choice and in a conflict and how different choices take you different ways. But that is the hero's journey because you have to leave to discover who you really are in the first place to then come back. So what I had down here, I'm just going to tell me, well, I'll read it and then you just tell me what your vibe is. So you've got the call to adventure, which is Luke receives a message from Princess Leia via R2. This is in the hero with a thousand faces message. The refusal of the call, so he hesitates. There's always the hero in the film. I can't do it. I can't do it. No, no, no. It's not me anymore. I don't want to leave the Shire, Mr. Frodo. Yeah. And that ties to his life on Tatooine. Then we've got the meeting of the mentors. We've got Obi-Wan teaches him about the Force, crossing the threshold. Now he leaves Tatooine after his uncle and aunt are killed. Trials and allies. He trains. He meets Han Solo. He fights the Empire. Then we've got death and rebirth. Obi-Wan dies, so Luke must now step into his power. The ultimate ordeal, which is facing Darth Vader, his dad, spoiler alert. Losing a hand, you know, because, you know, everyone needs a hand. And then rejecting the dark side, ultimately. Then you return with the elixir. So that's the full hero's journey, which is bringing balance back to the Jedi and restoring hope to the universe. So I just wanted to get your thoughts on that. the fact that that was literally what George Lucas was trying to do with the whole thing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, he said if it wasn't for the hero of Files of Faces, he wouldn't have been able to finish Star Wars. Thank you, Joseph. Yeah, thank you, Joseph. I mean, it's one of my favourite books. You know when you go through a book and I've highlighted pretty much the whole book. You like me then where you make notes. Yeah, yeah, I highlight, man, and it's like, wow. It's a book that... Lucas said he would go back to yearly and I'd do the same. I've not done my second read through yet, but I'm looking forward to it because there's so much in it and understanding the archetypes and using it as a map. And you do see it is in every movie. Otherwise, what we're watching... Well, the movies mirror us and that's what we're all doing. Yeah, we tell that story, whether we make it relatable or it's otherworldly like Star Wars, but we're still relating to these characters. And even if you're watching a Pixar and you're still relating to... You know, the computer-based characters, it's like, it's the feeling and it's the journey. And yeah, the hero's journey in Star Wars, I think, you know, like June, it's so clear into what's happening in the process of it. You know, even when you have these models and you watch it, I don't watch it with the model in mind. I watch the film and you just, you know, when you reflect on it and say, okay, this is it. But the hero's journey is great. And I really like the ending part towards the hero's journeys. You know, you have to fight the dragon, fight Vader. You have to, you're going to lose the first time, you know, you meet the mage, you get the weapon, you get the information. But you weren't quite ready. You weren't ready. And then you have to know, okay, you've got to go back, goes back to Yoda, gets the next lessons, like, I'm ready now. And he did that peace and that calmness and not to see him as, you know, when he goes in the cave in Dagobah to see what his fear is. And it's him. And it's him. He chops his dad's head off and it's him. And it's like, ah, because you then compare that to what he did at the end when he could have done it to Vader and he's
SPEAKER_02:like,
SPEAKER_00:ah, no, I'm not. Because
SPEAKER_02:I already know. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:There is
SPEAKER_02:no separation.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And I think that's where he accepts all, accepts everything, whereas Anakin just couldn't. Anakin couldn't accept that Padme was going to die even if it was a dream that was tormenting couldn't accept what happened to his mother couldn't accept the way the Jedi were running things
SPEAKER_00:it's the trauma the trauma being so deep and unhealed through the life results in that dark outcome and it's true you know if we ignore the trauma
SPEAKER_02:he ignores the wisdom of Yoda and Obi-Wan to go and try and save the friends that he's attached to And that's why they go, you know what I mean? That wasn't your time.
SPEAKER_00:This is a good point to discuss because I think there's elements of Luke's character where he's a people person. If his friends are in danger, whatever the cost, he'll go, even at his own foolishness, but he will try. And it's like seeing that is, was it right for him to still go and to lose that battle? Because if the hero journey is projected onto everything... Where else are you going to lose? But it's still like that immaturity of rushing in. Yeah. While I disagree with what Yoda was saying as well and Obi-Wan. They were like, you can't. And they tell him to kill his dad. Everyone tells him to kill his dad. Everyone says kill Vader. Yoda says kill Vader. Obi-Wan says kill Vader. Yeah, but they just mean Vader, not Anakin. Yeah, this is why we... From a certain point
SPEAKER_02:of view.
SPEAKER_00:You get pedantic and say the
SPEAKER_02:whole thing, right? But he told me he was my dad. Well, I kind of
SPEAKER_00:do. Fuck you. Really seeing that these... these people points of authority or who are above us there's a lot to learn from them but they don't know everything it's still our individual journey you've still got to trust your own internal
SPEAKER_02:compass at the end of the day
SPEAKER_00:yeah I mean it could have cost him his life it didn't but you know they're all still saying kill him and he's like no I still see Anakin in there that 1% of light and love which exists in everything and everyone can you be 100% dark can you be 100% light there's still that balance of the force if you were there would be
SPEAKER_02:nothing else you would only be light or you would only be dark. So you wouldn't be able to see anything. You'd either be absence or you'd be everything, which is the same thing. Black hole or a sun. Yeah, exactly. And then this brings me into the illusion of control, which Yoda's teachings emphasize surrendering to the force rather than trying to bend reality to one's will. And that actually echoes a lot of like Stoicism and Zen Buddhism and about the fact that That's what the dark side really, not the dark side, what the Sith are trying to do. They're trying to control everything. But what are the fucking Jedi doing then? Were they not trying to get everyone to be a certain way as well? Banishing all these texts of the old Sith ways of being. Like you said, they're always telling them what to do. And I'm just curious what your, this illusion of control where they feel like, although Yoda is saying like, let go and be, it's like, yeah, well then, why did all that happen then, bro?
UNKNOWN:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00:yeah I think there's a good point in there about banning these texts or saying don't do these practices and we're looking at a passage of time too time has gone on if they've seen the High Republic stuff which is like 200 or 100 years before Phantom Menace but prior to that like the Golden Age of the Jedi and I guess even going further these texts that you follow because they get a certain thing it really in this idea highlights how we need to adapt for modern ages but understanding that if there's been a big war and people were like messing stuff up because they're using the dark powers and they got selfish and it's like okay we need to put these away and or maybe rethink what we do about them because anakin's issues if he'd been able to speak to the council and they said okay here's how you can save life so is it right to save a life very kill them or exile them yeah yeah because
SPEAKER_02:that's it
SPEAKER_00:it's like yeah the fear the fear of the dark side are worse happening because of it rather than guidance and opening and like trying to do it that way which Obi-Wan tries at the end of their last fight but it's too late it's too late there's too much damage being done you can't pull him back from that Jedi are all about not
SPEAKER_02:fear so yeah it's very that's why that's why they say don't they the hypocrisy of the Jedi order
SPEAKER_00:yeah Because they were too dogmatic at that point. Like, we're right. Don't do that because. Yeah. And it's like, you know, the authoritarian father's like, no, you shouldn't do that. And all you want to do is rebel against that.
SPEAKER_02:It
SPEAKER_00:doesn't help because it's not
SPEAKER_02:right. No, it should be flow. And the problem with that, that illusion of control is it's rigid. Stopping you be the flow, the dance of the in, the out, the up, the down, the dark, the light, the dark, the light. And to just be like, no, that's bad. And if you do that, you're dead. I don't know why I did that accident. You're dead. And that brings me on to the last point because we have got other stuff to talk about. We'll have to do a Star Wars episode, but death and immortality, which funny enough, I'm actually going to be doing a illa past by the time this comes out. But on Sunday, I'm using ancient Egyptian mythology to explore the concept of eternal life. But you know, those floating meditation journeys I do where I'm using music and meditation and storytelling. With this, I wanted to bring up Qui-Gon's discovery of the force ghost technique reflects spiritual transcendence akin to like Nirvana or like Ascension.
SPEAKER_00:the wills that's what they were called yeah if you've seen it in the claw wars it's like the last ones go on and Qui-Gon goes to learn from the wills yes no I watched
SPEAKER_02:all of them because you told me
SPEAKER_00:to you were like there's some gold in there sometimes
SPEAKER_02:I'm like it's a bit too kiddy and then that's only like the first three episodes and then it's like bam right
SPEAKER_00:there's some deep ones in like for going to claw I've seen them all but I think there's ones that there'll be lists online just to watch these it's a good
SPEAKER_02:way
SPEAKER_00:of
SPEAKER_02:getting little kids into it but go on as you were saying
SPEAKER_00:yeah and learning these techniques of transcendence and how you merge with the force and how it's achieved as the greatest form of practice now through dream yoga. Dream yoga becoming awake and unconscious. So we're conscious, we become aware, we're dreaming. Generally, everyone's dreams are unconscious unless you train and practice to become conscious in that state. You're now awake and aware in an unconscious zone. They use dream yoga to practice for death. to stay conscious through this bardo. I'm just enrolled now on a three-month death doula course from Tibetan lineage with these four different bardo states of what's happening when you pass away to your final breaths and the zones you go into. This is, again, George Lucas loving culture and myth and taking this idea of conscious death and how you can then Be present in that. It's great. It's really nice. It's a really wonderful touch that you put into that. That it's not just a given as well because it's like the highest form of practice. You know, in Ashoka, when Anakin is there because he's the force ghost, now he can be in these realms and, you know, in different spaces of time. That was sick, by the way. Yeah. That episode was banging. Mint,
SPEAKER_02:mint, mint that.
SPEAKER_00:So, yeah, the practices of life through to extending to death. And you'll know, man, just from... meditation on its own consciousness because we're clearing out it's not we don't necessarily need the next ayahuasca journey or the next technique it's we're trying to clear out and not obscure the sun we are the sun anyway why do we put more different coloured clouds in there with these other things we get to stillness and calmness everything clears out and these things can naturally arise so you can attune your focus a bit more so it's depth to that but yeah it's well that's what I
SPEAKER_02:love about it like I hear Obi-Wan But it's in my dad's voice. Because my dad passed, innit? And it's just like, use the force, man. So, like I said, we could speak about Star Wars all fucking day. We could. But we do have other films on the subject. Was there something you wanted to...
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I'll bring one in, mate. I mean, how long was that? That was already
SPEAKER_02:a few minutes. Bear with me, people. What are we on? What are we on? 40 minutes? 43 minutes? Mate, this is whatever. Yeah. That one had to get a good talking about. We had a few briefings as well. So go on, what's your shout, bro? Matrix. Funny enough. Number three on the list. Right. So for the Matrix, I've got down here illusion versus reality. The Matrix as Maya, illusion, echoing the Hindu, the Gnostic and the Buddhist teachings.
SPEAKER_00:Do with that what you will. Yeah, big up. First of all, Matrix is my number one film. I've seen that countless amounts of times. one from the first time what was we like 16 or 17 when it came out
SPEAKER_02:younger when you like you're an old man how old are
SPEAKER_00:you now 37
SPEAKER_02:bro I'm only 33 I'm a babby
SPEAKER_00:so when yeah I mean you so what maybe 13 14 it was like 1999 or something wasn't it it was 1999 someone do the math for me 10 points to Gryffindor Watching it and being like, that's cool. And still, you know, what you said about when you're getting styles is there's something when we're pulled to stuff as kids and we might not quite know what that massive drawer is other than that looks mint. But I think there's always that something that's deeper in there because... you know, watching The Matrix and loving it as a kid and being great, I didn't watch it again until I was into spirituality. Okay. And then when I watched it and I'd been in it, I was like, whoa. Were you just liking the kick-ass fucking effects? Yeah, man, it looked cool because it was actually, it was a groundbreaking film in the sense of bullet time, visual effects, the story, the fact that they've impacted, it's Plato's cave, the allegory of the cave, if anyone's familiar with that in the modern term. So Plato had done this, the idea of the allegory of the cave is these three people underground, they're chained and they've been raised out of their life, and they just see the wall, and there's a fire behind them. And shadows and things from walking past, like insects or people walking past the cave, get projected onto the wall. They think that's what life is, just the cave and this wall. And they don't know what the stuff is, but they make their own stories about it. And one day, somehow, one of them's chains unlock, he gets free, he crawls out the cave, and he's like... what is this? You know, a world full of color and magic. You've got sun, you've got trees, blue skies, animals. And then, so he's woke up to the real world and he comes back into the cave, tells the guys like, this isn't it. There's, there's more out there. Come see, come see. They like, no, he's gone insane. They beat him down and kill him because he's, you know, the black sheep that tries to go against. I can relate. I relate to my man. Yeah, I think anyone who hits their spiritual awakening, they open their mind from the frame of even just going from nine to five to coming out of something like that. It's like, wow, mass indoctrination. Purposely, perhaps, but also... Unconsciously, we get indoctrinated. We're indoctrinated to our own beliefs. You can't help it. It's impossible
SPEAKER_02:not to be off with ego. It just is an attachment to beliefs and identities to try and give you some sort of guidebook to survive this existence. It's not necessarily even nefarious.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's it. We need that ego identity to... No, this is a glass of water. Don't walk in front of that car. It'll
SPEAKER_02:hurt. Only five drops of the... Full drop, isn't it? This illusion versus reality comes to me all the time. My mind obviously then tries to make sense of when I'm experiencing it in my actual life and Matrix comes up almost all the time. It was funny, man. I had a moment where I was really deep with a plant medicine and it just went, you're the chosen one. And straight away, that part that wants to be the fucking Neo was like, yes, I fucking knew it. And then all the other parts, like, is that it again? You're not going to be a cult leader. Stop it,
SPEAKER_00:Michael. Mr. Smith, me, me, me, me, me. And he does that and he's copying himself, copy and paste. And the levels of, well, this philosophy in it, like the Wachowskis, they were lucid dreamers. But the books that they put in there, Simulation and Simulacra, from a French philosopher, and that's where Neil's got the key, and he gives that guy at the start, he says, you're my own personal Jesus Christ, and all this like, the rooms, the 101, and the numbers, and the kid with the spoon at the Oracle, everything in it, everything is so, so, so layered, it's phenomenal as a film, to digest it and take it in, and God, it's just, it's the number one movie, not for just watching how great it is, but there's keys in it, massive keys, and I do personally believe there's one of my number one series, I love the OA, is people who are like, not just creative or artistic, but they've got something to share or the way that they can tell a story or how they visualize something. I think there's a lot of energy that's imparted into Well, I guess in this case, into movies. Whether someone can be inspired by someone's words or what they speak in this, there's people who can transmit something through their form of art and media, if that's not what all art is about anyway, to transmit an idea or something. And when you watch it, our levels of resonance can open and unlock things. I've personally felt that, and that exists for me, my reality. The Matrix is one of them. The OA definitely is one of them. Something's been given to you by that level of knowledge from... what they know and what we inherit. How they've
SPEAKER_02:expressed it so skillfully. Exactly. I don't think we need to worry about what pill you take.
SPEAKER_00:Crush them both up, snort them, let's go. Red and blue, both
SPEAKER_02:at the same time. So the next thing then, funny enough, I was already saying this, the chosen one archetype. So Neo's path to enlightenment through rebirth and divine realisation. So you don't know. You have to start by forgetting. god knows everything how boring is fucking that so god has chosen to forget so he can play the character of in this case neo or michael the children and at some point again your obi-wan turns up in this case it's morpheus turns up and goes hey i've got both pills uh craig would snort them both but then that opens you up you now go out of the the plato's cave oh my god and for a lot of people that is first wow and then oh shit do you mean because That was safety. My ego had everything fucking figured out. That's why you'll argue the point. That's why people will die over ideologies and ideas because they're terrified that they might not know the right answer. That plant actually will kill you. That person over there is dangerous. That animal might bite you. It's a very ingrained defense mechanism. And if you haven't got that ability to meditate and just go beyond the attachments, the impulses, then you are just trapped in that matrix.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. But to
SPEAKER_02:be the chosen one, how can you be reborn if you never die? So yeah, what does dying really mean? It means letting go of what we were attached to. Sometimes I'll have parts that are like, no, we can't do that. And I'm like, why? Who are you? And it's like, I'm you. And I'm like, well, that doesn't make any sense. How can you be me and not me at the same time? So I'm just curious about your... thoughts and we'll use neo as the sort of chosen one vibe of enlightenment rebirth and divine realization
SPEAKER_00:yeah the um he's he's deaf on getting shot and killed by smith you know the version oh sorry spoiler alert again if you haven't seen the matrix If you're listening to people talk about The Matrix and you carry on and you haven't seen it, go watch the film. Matrix 4, by the way, was incredible. I guess a bad rep, as did the second and third when it came out. But Matrix 4 was late. But again, that's another
SPEAKER_02:day. That's the one. It's got a sick song in it by Sam Farhan called Emily's Down, Down the Rabbit Hole. Anyway, carry on. I'm sorry, the DJ in me just came out then. Go on, back to the chosen one.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so that, again, that's portrayed what we... put onto every like Luke will resonate or maybe Obi-Wan or you know we resonate to some kind of character and the opening for us within the Matrix is understand like Thomas Anderson basic name very basic name
SPEAKER_02:doing a basic job
SPEAKER_00:yeah his passport I think his passport was issued on 9-11, by the way. There's little cookie crumbs in there. You see that in the scene just before his mouth seals up. But yeah, that version of the one, it's the average man. And it doesn't mean, because this is where we come into spiritual crisis, or people go into that, oh, I am Jesus. I'm realized. I am Buddha. Yeah. Ram Dass does a really good talk on that. He's like, well, Alan Watts says you can say that in Indian. He'll be like, yeah, of course. Welcome to the club. Who the fuck isn't that? Exactly that. I'm God. It's seen that the emphasis... put on the revelation of those things whether it goes to the ego to be like oh i am special and so is everybody else but in their own unique way and does it go to the ego or do we get to use that as our empowerment where it's not in comparison to anybody anywhere else or it's as if it's just you because it is a divine realization yeah that it's that it's life that's the cosmic joke for you oh shit i think
SPEAKER_02:i was i thought i was thomas anderson
SPEAKER_00:yeah yeah and but he doesn't then go around thinking i'm the one i'm a superhero he just does what he does he just gets on with it and he doesn't even let you know and in the second one everyone's planted that food out there because he's like oh he's a special one and he's not just like oh god I just want to be with my missus and chill
SPEAKER_02:I just want to chill with my girl have a bit of fun cheeky cheeky snort
SPEAKER_00:the red and
SPEAKER_02:blue pill again
SPEAKER_00:you know the lines in that are great like again understanding that it's not about you're not the Thomas Anderson you're not necessarily the Neo you're existing you're alive but what does Neo mean it just means new right anagram for the one but yeah Neo Neo is the new variation too and there's
SPEAKER_02:always that's what I liked about the sequels my mind went meltdown then was that like um you see that, you know, when the guy, the guy who made the Matrix, the architect, that's it. And he's showing them all a different version of versions of him. They're all like,
SPEAKER_01:fuck you, man.
SPEAKER_02:One of them's laughing. One of them's gone manic. And that is all the multiverse. And he's just got it on a TV just so that the Neo character can comprehend what the point he's even trying to make is, which comes down to my next point, which is the power of belief. So with the Matrix, it's, It's more than just mind over matter. So I put that the matrix suggests that reality is malleable based on one's internal state and a core idea that seems to be in most spiritual traditions.
SPEAKER_00:That was a very cool sentence. I like that. Yeah, I mean, again, watching the matrix through different points in my life, one was just getting into spirituality, but getting into lucid dreaming always sticks out for me that the training ground when Morpheus goes, free your mind. And he runs and jumps over and Neo goes, okay, free my
SPEAKER_02:mind.
SPEAKER_00:I'm going to free. I'm going to let go. I'm going to surrender. Why are you telling yourself that? Just fucking do it. That point to when he jumps and he's done it, but then he recognizes, I'm this high in the air and there's the ground. Oh shit. And that's when he falls and For me, the implications come back into lucid dreaming. And I use this example a lot. So you're conscious in the dream and you're fully awake, as awake as you are now. And you see a dog and you're like, oh, that dog, look at it, it's so happy. And then you think, oh, but what if it bites me? The dog will instantly turn a bit aggressive. It
SPEAKER_02:feels it.
SPEAKER_00:Well, it's the dream because it's in our mental realm. We're making that instant change by what we believe in and what we think, oh, it might. And then, therefore, it happens in that state. My belief towards this is... With the dream realm being fourth and fifth dimensional, our waking state being third dimensional, matter, slower, still works off the same laws, still based off what we think and what we believe, just much slower to condense. I like that. It just takes time. The clearer we get more towards being light or clear or empty, the quicker manifestation happens. My own personal journey has proven this to me everyone else whatever do you go
SPEAKER_02:well that's what you were trying to do tell people our experience and how we're interpreting it and how it mirrors the films and the shows that we love the thing is i'm not insecure enough to try and get you to agree with me old me would preach people would say you preach all the time and then wouldn't even fucking do it as well by the way and you see so many people say all the right shit why am I not vibing with you though? Do you know what I mean? There's something about you that ain't living it. That's why I love our relationship. And we don't get to see each other all the time, but when we do, it's like, we always have a fucking laugh because I think we're just on a very similar vibe. Nerds, nerd life. Also, I just wanted to touch on the sacrifice and the transcendence. So like Neo's almost Christ-like death and resurrection. For me, sacrifice is easiest when you realize the other is you anyway. it is not actually even a sacrifice anymore.
SPEAKER_00:That instantly brings the end of the sacrifice to allowing Smith in, you know, in the third movie when he's like, you know, and he goes, why Mr. Anderson? Why? Why does he keep trying? He's like, because I choose to, because I can. And he allows the emergence of the dark side of Smith to come into him because that's what eradicates Smith. the conflict of the light and the dark rather than just fighting him constantly rather than that constant battle that you know because he's took over the illusion he's took over Maya like what did he call it in Buddhism Mara I believe his name is was the that's like the devil yeah in a way yeah it's like the controller of the king of the illusion the demon king of the illusion and the Buddha's like do what you want it's good and he gets the earth to witness his enlightenment bang sends all the arrows and the wars and the demons and the seductress is gone they're gone because he's like It's illusion. It's not real. And it's that lack of separation then to this malleable reality of it being able to be changed or to not be in conflict with it if it isn't changing. But this point on the, what was the topic again? The sacrifice. The sacrifice.
SPEAKER_02:Sacrifice and that leads to transcendence.
SPEAKER_00:You know what? I only came across this the other day with Neil deGrasse Tyson and Lawrence Fishburne who plays Morpheus. Neil deGrasse Tyson. Touche me. And he was told in that Neil deGrasse Tyson told Fishburne because he didn't know it yet. But he gets shot, Smith shoots Neo for that death 14 times. And because they're so linked into Gnosticism, the Wachowskis, there was 14 points of where the cross was taken on Jesus's journey to the hill. And again, this is this Christ-like imitation from the movie that he dies and then he comes back to life. And the point that I think which is important for the resurrection is love. Trinity kisses him and that's when his heart beats again. love and the merging of masculine and feminine and duality
SPEAKER_02:I feel like pure presence is the divine masculine but it's cold without the pure unconditional love of the divine feminine and together that does spark new life and the reason all these parts are just projecting at others anger grief stress irritation is because they're just not being met with that love that was always maybe met by that internal part of you not external and we're seeking it outside because we're not prepared to do it for ourselves so actually sit with the pain sit with the grief sit with the suffering and just rather than just looking at it what because a lot of people make this mistake I'll pay attention if you fuck off afterwards I'll feel this does it mean it goes so I let go once I pay attention no no it's got to be done with love and that has to be unconditional and that I think that was a really poignant point that you just made that like it was Trinity's love And we might speak about June and, you know, maybe that'll come up as well again.
SPEAKER_01:Better be
SPEAKER_02:on your list, bro. Maybe, maybe. So I am mindful. I do want to touch on some other stuff. The last thing I would say is the breaking free of the machine. So the idea that society itself is a form of conditioning that must be escaped, but by mirrors. So escaped by mirrors. Many esoteric teachings are always talking about waking up to the greater truth. the greater truth, the greater truth. And it's like that Russian doll. And if you can embrace the fact that that never ends and that's how the ride continues, then that's where you break free from the machine. But if you are scared that you won't reach the end or that you are certain you know everything and you've reached the end, you're just going to stay in that machine, that circle, that cog, until eventually.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And that's what death will fucking do if you won't. yeah well that's it that's why death is a grateful process because it will do that as liam said in the last episode lucky bastard your dad and my mom yeah so yeah the point that i know i went on about a few things but it is the breaking free from the machine funny enough i do have in my notes that it was inspired by plato's allegory of the cave um that wasn't something that i'd remembered until you brought it up again there um Morpheus being the wise mentor, that's akin to the bodhisattva. You say it. Bodhisattva. That's what I'm trying to say. And then the red pill
SPEAKER_00:is just a metaphor, obviously, for spiritual awakening. Truth, truth. The idea of that machine as well, like what is a machine, which June touches into very well, like the thinking machine as opposed to a free, live thinking mind and machines taking that away. And our free will is gone, which we're seeing with our infancy with social media and technology at the moment. and how we're going to use that well when we get to that point of consciousness with it. But the idea that machines take over, and not just machines and AI in the sense of what they physically are, but that lack of humanness in general, even if the technology wasn't invented, if we don't act upon our humanity, what are we? Not being alive because we're unconscious and not active is how I see that. Well, you become a machine yourself, if that's the case. Yeah, yeah, yeah. stuck to what we know, like a machine. It's logic too, Smith, pure logic. Doesn't feel, despises it, you know, when he has those senses, like the smell. Oh, the smell. The
SPEAKER_02:smell, Mr. Anderson.
SPEAKER_00:The whole idea of breaking free out of that on, again, multiple levels, which is why The Matrix is so impactful. And how truth isn't pretty, you know, when he comes out into the Nebuchadnezzar, the ship, And they're all tatty clothes and it's cold and the food is grim.
SPEAKER_02:But they still have a fucking good dance, don't they? They have a great rave, mate. A K-rave. DJ Moksha there. Sorry, I interrupted
SPEAKER_00:you. Which bit is it? When they take the red pill, which is the metaphor for truth. And yeah, it's not a pretty, the food ain't good cypher. who is the Judas. He scared the bejesus out of me. Neil scares him again. And he wants to, he tells Smith, he's eating the steak, the steak, the metaphor for the good life, drinking the wine, maybe someone important or something like an actor, you know, and he's saying, I don't want to remember anything because this takes us back to that representation of what you mentioned of the ego going, I'd rather stay in his comfort because the truth, whatever layer it is, you know it doesn't have to be a physically cold place but internally it's like i don't want to know that yeah
SPEAKER_02:you don't
SPEAKER_00:appreciate
SPEAKER_02:the beauty behind the disgusting the sacred the divinity behind the pain behind the the dullness the boringness so why would you want it yeah and that's where breaking free from the machine and seeing oh fuck that glass of water is Like watching paint is fucking mint, you know what I mean? That grass growing fucking hell, you know what I mean? Was there any other points before we move on to the next one? There's another podcast on it as well. Yeah, maybe we'll have a spin-off. So Michael's The Name Meditation is the game and Meditation with Michael has now launched its very own website. Everything I'm doing is going to be on there. from meditation classes, which you can join in person, catch up if you missed one, or just join online from the comfort of your own home. One-to-one sessions. We've got loads of freebies like the chakra meditations, and we've also got a new 10-day beginner's course. So if you really want to build that strong foundation, I've suffered with anxiety, depression, suicidal tendencies. I've lost family members. I've been an addict. Unhealthy relationships coming out my ears. Meditation was the panacea. Learning how to sit with balance. Any sensation that arises really just helps you to master that patience. And those who master patience, well, they master everything else. So I want to pass that on. It is my purpose to alleviate my own suffering, show us how to do the same, and we can all live more peacefully. It sounds all right, that, doesn't it? So this website is a lovely little hub for you to find everything I'm doing, from the ecstatic dances to the floating meditation journeys. I'll put a link in the description. Go check out meditationwithmichael.co.uk. and awaken the power within. Peace and love guys. And all I ever thought about was trying to control the spice. I never went into the depth, the spiritual background behind it. I didn't even touch on that. But then I watched it with Wizardry, David. And have you met Echo? Echo Widmer. So we were watching that. He's like, no, you need to watch fucking Dune. I was like, I'll watch Dune. If you drop, I won't say what. And then I was like, Because I tried watching Dune the first time. I was fucking well ill and I was well high. You've got to pay attention to Dune. Yeah, and I was just like, no, this is a bit fucking much, which was really surprising for me because cinematography on it. Oh, I'm a massive... I love art. And that was art. That's not just a fucking film. That's art. I guess it's what films are. And then I watched the second one with my mum. And I was just like... I kept trying to bug you. It was a Jedi. We've got like a little Jedi cinema club going on. And I was trying to bug you all, but we've all got busy lives. So in the end, I was like, I'm not waiting. I want to see it. And it's like, June 1 is very good, but it's a new hope compared to June 2, which is Empire Strikes Fucking Back. June 2, I was like, I almost felt, no, I did. I felt spiritual relief. watching the film so that's why i had to bring it in even though it was talking 2021 2023 brand new really i've only watched june 1 twice and june 2 once which wasn't mindful to say so it was that impactful that i made the list and i'm a film lover i'm a tv show lover so this that shows how much i think of june you've turned up wearing the shirt for a reason so the spiritual film theme i wanted to speak about first was prophecy verse conditioning yeah So what I've got here is you've got Paul Atreides, he's seen as the prophesied Lisan al-Gahib, and he actually is the truly the chosen one, or merely just a product of generations of the Bene Gesserit.
SPEAKER_00:It's so great, mate. I think I've got a bit of preface towards June. I had the absolute joy. I read all the six Frank Herbert's books. So you've read the books like your mum then as well? Yeah, I've not... I've not dipped into the prequels because his son carried it on, but I have bought the one that's about the Butlerian Jihad, the war against the machines that they talk about. Not ready yet. But he was six at Frank Herbert. He's incredible, man. Like the mind. He was actually a political script writer. And there's a lot of like, I mean, this is when you know someone as an author. It's like very clever people and they put that into story. So I think he studied ecology as well. He went to Jungian lectures recently. and yeah like so he's well then I had his psychedelic experiences obviously which is what they use as a spy standard
SPEAKER_02:oh yeah I was watching that with Isabella last night because she'd not seen him so I said if you want to watch mine and Craig's episode because Isabella loves Who on Earth you're going to have to I knew that June was coming up I was like you're going to have to fucking watch June and even she was like
SPEAKER_00:but when he's doing the spies do you know what I think I was a bit disappointed in the second one where they didn't emphasize his interactions with the water of life. And I think... That was... Mate, Denis Villeneuve, all of his movies are gold. Everything he's done is brilliant. Arrival, he did Arrival as well. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. The
SPEAKER_02:ginger actress, what's she called? Oh, Jennifer Fish. She was Lois Lane. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Lois Lane. Lois Lane.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, his films are always great and he has his style with cinematography. But I was like, it's... They obviously changed some stuff from the books because they needed to. People were a bit upset with what they did with Charney, with Zidane. I don't know. I thought it was quite good. But he kind of took away a lot of the power of the prescience when he has his abilities to see into the future, which Seymour emphasized in the first one. And in the second one, he has his ayahuasca moment when he drinks the water of life. Definitely ayahuasca moment. Yeah, 100% was having a bit of that earthy treacle. He definitely was. I don't think they capitalized on that as much as I would have liked to see visually and the importance of bit
SPEAKER_02:I think he did that on purpose to sort of not like this is something almost Tao like it can't be something like Tao like it can't be seen it can't be touched this is this is going to ruin it for you if I show it yeah
SPEAKER_00:I don't know because you're interpreting a story like for me I would have loved to see it because I like to see things get respect and props that way in a sense well my own love for the plant I didn't say anyway but James Cameron had one for Avatar you can see the deleted scene where it's not fully put together but Jake Sully in it did everything his version of Ayahuasca, which Cameron's done. And it was a ceremony with the other Avatar. And that's when he knows to go to, was it Tumuk 2? Or the giant bird. Timbuk 2, yeah. He knows to go and get Timbuk 2 because he had a vision about it. And that's how he unites the clans. But, you know, it's a big ass movie. They cut it out. Yeah. And it's just, I think things like that, especially in June because it's a massive part the chapter in the book it's so beautifully wrote like how he puts time bending into it and his sense of becoming one with everything and seeing all these lineages of time and how he's merging the ancestral memories like it's big I would have liked to see that get more props in the film but he was present anyway you know like when the first movie opens dreams and messages from the deep first thing that comes up on a blank screen and then he goes into it and he's talking to duncan idaho about had his dream you died so he's already prescient you could already see these things but the spice um he's sensitive to it isn't it yeah which i feel
SPEAKER_02:like he kicks off i can relate to you know what i'm saying i don't know about yourself but when you clear all the gunk you start realizing that oh there's a fucking universe in here and then these master meditants go Let me show you this door. A bit Yellow Submarine-esque. So I always wanted to talk about the manipulation that comes from the fact that he's already being groomed. And that moment when he overhears his mum right at the start going like... And he's like, imagine if your mum had been... sort of using you in a way to fulfill some sort of egoic i'm going to be the mother of the church i am mother mary sort of vibes and then there's this tension between destiny and deeply ingrained programming that then raises questions about like how much of spirituality is actually innate and how much is just learned
SPEAKER_00:yeah the this is what i really loved about june was this important this this part was one of the main first things i was like that is so genius you've got this this prophecy and like star wars the chosen one of a what it made me really think about was the structure of religion and how that is seeded because it's a very similar situation to the real world you've got religion seeded to make you think and believe a certain way with such a power behind it with this one healer and hero um that can then like you can't be that you know but in this case it's he was that You are this leader. But how true was it? Because you hear the Bene Gesserits have done this to all planets for as a safety thing. But it arises at that time. So you've already got these, the Fremen, able to believe and access that because it's deep in their beliefs, their religious beliefs. The Fremen, obviously, by the way. The Fremen, for sure. And then you've got him who starts like, he knows it's fake. What does that line he says in the second movie? And he says something about, you call this hope or you think this isn't hope because they've... They're just believing in him because they were taught to believe in him over years of indoctrination. But the best, there's such a good part about it is that he is that as well. But he has to believe in himself to be what he is and then not get manipulated and moved by it. And it's like, it's just so... brilliantly layered about what that means for our state our institutional states that we believe in because we see real life actions with it but was it set up that way you know yeah and what do what's our conditioning to believe these things well that's why
SPEAKER_02:um i i have a lot of friends who love us like astrology and at first which was a very old pattern of behavior i scoffed at it which i did with everything really because i was so scared of the actual truth that let's not go there but the more I opened and then with astrology I don't disbelieve that everything is connected and everything impacts each other I just don't know if I believe your indoctrinated way of explaining what that means about my own personal life because if you go back far enough and make something as complex as you can it sounds fucking believable and that's why conspiracy theories are all over the place so I'm not saying I don't believe the planets are connected to us and have certain effects depending on what happened. I'm just not sure you know, and I'm also open to the fact that you might. Whereas that's allowing myself to now balance the skepticism and the openness. I'm not just believing everyone. I'm also not just discounting everybody.
SPEAKER_01:The
SPEAKER_02:Bene Gettari... and mystical practices. So we're going back into that mysticism, which I love the mystical side of things. I think it used to be Merlin, Michael Merlin, whatever. So talking about the control over genetics, voice manipulation. Voice. Pass me the glass. And then my girl last night, Isabella, was like, Give me the falafel. I was like, wrong tone, darling. The pitch wasn't quite right. And then mind training mirrors esoteric wisdom, traditions, and secret societies. So obviously that's bringing in the witchy vibe. They're sort of pulling all the strings in the shadows. But there's always a respect, and everybody has one. So I'm curious about your feelings towards... A respect in what, sorry? So sort of like what his mother is. What's the name? The Bene Gesserit?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:That's what they call all the ladies, isn't it? Reverend Mothers.
SPEAKER_00:The ones who take the water and the poison and they become Reverend Mothers.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, but the Bene Gesserit, were they the ones that, obviously you can tell this is a film, are they the people who just... That's the whole group of them. So if you're in the Bene Gesserit, you're one of the witches. That's what I was trying to say, the whole thing. And then also I was quite interested at how they saw the male as the abomination.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah, well, there's more inside what he's converted from the book about abomination, which goes into Messiah. And he's done it a bit different, but it'll go into that. And when they use the abomination, it's like, they were saying that the abomination of the Kwiswitch Haderach, which is this manipulation of getting the man to be able to access the deeper depths that the women can't. So the Kwiswitch Haderach was going to be this ultimate being Christ-like figure. for them who can see as far into the future as he likes he can see as far back because he can see the women can only see through the the ancestral women's line while if they get a man to do it he'll be able to see through both and all the men that have tried it have died they haven't been able too much they say we're trying to find a mind strong enough yeah which was the whole point of the bloodlines to get to the point where they can create because which other action and him being their control But obviously being an ultimate being wouldn't be in anybody's control because he could see that. So it's their, again, their arrogance, their hubris of like the Jedi Order, wanting to put all these lines together. And they were doing a great job of it. You know, it was close to that point. Jessica was meant to have a daughter rather than Paul. And it was meant to be the next generation after that. It would have been there because of each other, actually, but it didn't get to that. So all this manipulation going on and the mysticism, which Frank Herbert was a big... eastern follower to an esoteric practitioner so they call the practice when they're like slowing their heart rate down prana bindu so prana and bindi you know the people who don't know what prana is life vital life force sanskrit for vital for life force so we'd include these practices that they use for deep meditation or when they the part where they're trenched in the sand jessica would slow her heart rate down through like breathing and so on so all this stuff was already layered in from real practices once again which is why People like ourselves have that pull and that interest to it from the projection of the movie because we dig that stuff. I'm watching it
SPEAKER_02:going, I was doing that last night. So I want to keep this going then. Fear and enlightenment. Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the mind killer,
SPEAKER_00:I must
SPEAKER_02:not. This mantra reflects Buddhist detachment against stoicism and then overcoming the ego.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, the... when he puts his hand in the box. And at first he's like, and you can feel the little boy in him.
SPEAKER_02:Oh no, this is fucking horrible. And then it's just, oh, there's no way out. She's going to kill me or this is going to continue. And then it's like, when there is no plan B, plan B doesn't get your energy anymore. It's only plan A, which is, go on then.
SPEAKER_00:Gotta go in. Let's do it then. Gotta go in. She has the gomja bar by his neck and his mum's outside and her tears and pain for him knowing he has to go through that. And it being an illusion when it comes out, you know, but he still has this massive hatred through her because of what she does. Like when he does the voice, he's like silence. It's such a satisfying moment in it. And she's like, abomination. How did you do that? But yeah, that, that whole part of going through the pain. And because on the other side of that is revelation, whether that's the form of the ego, therefore perseverance in a physical exercise, yoga, pranabindu, opening, moving, Channeling energy, tapping into something else to get us through those moments because then the stronger version of you exists over there. the part of
SPEAKER_02:you that is not attached to being in a certain state and hasn't confused itself for sensations which the law of dharma and Nietzsche's almost pass so if you attach yourself I am in pain it's the identification with pain a part of me is in pain oh let's watch it with love then
SPEAKER_01:yeah
SPEAKER_02:and not take it away that part needs to do it let's not take the challenge away from the child it'll weaken it how can it overcome and become stronger if you don't let the butterfly bust out of its cocoon it won't have the strength to fly so go on
SPEAKER_01:yeah
SPEAKER_02:but I'm here I'm holding your hand
SPEAKER_00:and I love you but go on the language we use about that I think is important too you know because there's things we say oh be careful when you cross the road or what's been put into our head from parents that were worrying and just being natural parents and caring but how that's addressed through consciousness or unconsciousness like be careful when you go there don't go and do that and you're like oh I can't you know and you're like why tense tense tense it's been fine I've crossed roads my entire life and it's been fine so far but now I've got you know and it's like obviously real world be aware yeah but indoctrination of the fears because of the language used when it might not you know it's just that other form of
SPEAKER_02:illusion that's why ifs helped me part's work part of me thinks this about you don't worry not all of it part of me thinks you're a cunt so i'll move on again and the desert mysticism of june and the freeman spirituality so The Freeman's connection to Arrakis mirrors that indigenous and the Sufi perspective on survival, devotion, and the harmony with nature. And I feel like that's a bit that really spoke to me. They didn't hate the desert. That's their home. Whereas many people will look at that and be like, death, nothing. So I was curious.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's a really wonderful point, man. how they saw it they respected the desert and the sandworm was their god cool when he's riding it by the way yeah what's the word that they call Shahalud is what they call the worms and it's the god the god of the desert because if we look back at tribal things in the way in our state in our world and how we respected either plants or animals in a different way and understand that that had its own energy and how we interact with that rather than the logical, you know, maybe David Attenborough style of all this does that. It's like see it as the energy and the entity for what it is. And this created superstition as well, but it was also a deeper understanding of things and how they interact with the desert. Like Arrakis is a massive character in Dune. And it's what occurs later down the line is... amazing with Arrakis itself even just how like the hiding under the sand yeah the movements and they actually go
SPEAKER_02:to the most uninhabitable bits yeah it's like but
SPEAKER_00:the I don't know how much it's missed on but they save the water for everything and like how vital the water is like when he spits when he first
SPEAKER_02:meets the Duke and they're like what are
SPEAKER_00:you doing motherfucker and he's like no no no that's
SPEAKER_02:like
SPEAKER_00:the biggest honour yeah like
SPEAKER_02:there is no fucking water gives you his water and they're like
SPEAKER_00:yeah and what it makes you think about respecting cultures and other cultures and the difference of ideas so much more attuned with
SPEAKER_02:just this flow of nature not seeing themselves as separate
SPEAKER_00:yeah they're a part of it and they're so much stronger because they're in their environment um
SPEAKER_02:oh
SPEAKER_00:god there's so much I could go into on that but we'll leave that for another day because it's incredible there might be a spin-off show coming every
SPEAKER_02:movie dissected can I I don't I know like you said we're going to go back and forth but you brought one up a few times I wanted to bring up do you mind if I just speak for you and say the OA oh
SPEAKER_01:yeah do
SPEAKER_02:you mind are
SPEAKER_00:we going into the OA
SPEAKER_02:yeah that would be the choice that was one of my
SPEAKER_00:oh you got it on the list
SPEAKER_02:yeah good man good man mate you suggested it and I was like I trust Craig. Trusting Craig, I do. And I was like, Izzy, Craig's recommended this. I think it's about near-death experiences. Isabella loves near-death experiences. Not having them. Constantly just find it almost dead. But then we watched it and we were like, fuck. So this is the only TV show I've picked.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Out of all of the stuff that I could have picked, I picked the OA. Again, only watched it for the first time last year. So do you mind if we talk about the OA a little bit? Not at all, mate. Do you mind, sir? So near-death experiences, NDEs, and higher consciousness. So the OA's multiple deaths lead to cosmic knowledge. They mirror the Tibetan Buddhism, the Tibetan Book of the Dead. Speak.
UNKNOWN:LAUGHTER
SPEAKER_00:The idea of near-death experiences and the amount of reports that people have that come back when they've had them and what they see and they come into their out-of-body states, again, it's indisputable. You've got to go have your own experience to know fully, but again, you can have these experiences if you're doing astral projection or from the dream state. You can die consciously. You don't have to be...
SPEAKER_02:the body's about to go. No, no, no. It can be when the part of you is let go, that is a death.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:What is death? Off. What is life? On. Off, on, off, on, off, on. And that's... And that's happening a trillion times. Your cells just flickered on and off a trillion times in a second. That gave us the illusion of something solid. Like, when you try and record a helicopter, it looks like the propellers ain't moving. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. So there's this idea of hap in it, exploring death, and the... cruelty of science and the mind. What's your thoughts on him? I think he's amazing. Obviously, his character's a bit of a twat. No, but you can appreciate
SPEAKER_02:a character without condoning the actions that they're taking.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, the character's fantastic. Jason Isaac's amazing. All of the cast is buzzing. But he's really good. What I like about him is he obviously loves Prairie and he wants to really... get to the bottom of the science and you'll do anything to get there you do anything to get to that bottom point whatever it takes even though sometimes he knows it's cruel because he's not like a numbed out psychopath he's obviously got things going on but for him to cause, put these people through torture, near death, keep them locked up, kill them again and again to the point, but enough so that they can come back.
SPEAKER_02:Again, if you have, if we are bringing up stuff and you ain't seen it, a Paul's fucking
SPEAKER_00:episode, go watch the OA and then come back. It's a game changer. Sorry bro, go on. And for, you know, for his character, like he's obviously an evil man and he still has his own love and struggle, but the science comes first because he's, He's one of those. It doesn't matter how you get there as long as you get there. The greater good. Yeah, it's the greater good. How
SPEAKER_02:many dictators have put that? Or religious leaders or whatever. Ah, but this is for the greater good.
SPEAKER_00:Tyrannical views. And again, go back to Luke. Wouldn't kill the most perceived evilest man ever because he's like, well, that's not going to work. Yeah, it's not going to change anything. So yeah, the near-death experiences. The near-death experiences. Near-death
SPEAKER_02:everybody.
SPEAKER_00:The amount of DMT that gets released in a genuine near-death experience or when we die and DMT is released every time we dream, DMT is released when we're born, massive ups and downs. Those who
SPEAKER_02:don't know what
SPEAKER_00:DMT is? Dimethyltryptamine. The spirit molecule. Yeah. Yeah. Move for the God molecule. I only found out there's a difference in those the other day. Bufo is interesting. Yeah, very interesting. If
SPEAKER_02:you haven't seen episode one of season two, I did the one with Echo and she was talking about her Bufo retreats that she does while she brings in Vipassana, five days of Vipassana before even doing it. Then you have Hero's Dose. Then there's like Ecstatic Dance, there's Cold War, there's Journaling. Then you do small amounts to keep being faced with this fear, this constant near death.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's a good way to experience a near-death experience, isn't it, with Gruffo?
SPEAKER_02:Everything and nothing at the same fucking time. Woo! It's wild. Shit. And then that just goes, Pandora's box of defense systems, let me just open that. And I am here for it. At the end of it, I was like,
SPEAKER_01:let's go again.
SPEAKER_02:And everyone's looking at me like, I used to see what I was like, purging and... But I appreciated the pure, because what happened was... When it got to like, nothing, nothing, nothing, then it was like, I don't know if it was me speaking or something else, irrelevant. It went, remember the release. And as it went release, it went release, and that high frequency pulled the depth of the loaf, and it was like, and it was like, oh, wow. Anyway, we digress. So also wanted to bring up with the OA the interdimensional travel and the spiritual evolution. So the note I've got here is the character's ability to shift reality suggests ascension and that's akin to like the mystical traditions of light bodies the rainbow body so thoughts
SPEAKER_00:yeah the i think the evolution of where they go from one dimension to the other what i find intriguing about that is how they do that you know whether it's through yeah they do the movements yeah and this is this is the point that i was kind of alluding to before is that what Britt Marling put in the OA, she's transmitting something, and I feel it when I'm watching it, I'm like, something's opening here, just from watching this. Just from watching it? Yeah. The movement, the whole show, but the movement's like, because there was a form that druids used to do, oh no, more Norse, so Scandinavian, runes, they were called, and they would be like postures, very similar to what Not exactly the same ones, but they used it to access energy. Like yoga. It's sacred
SPEAKER_02:geometry. You're tapping into the patterns of the universe, which is all you're made up of.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. You put yourself in a position and you're channeling that energy. And within that, when there's five of them and she talks so much about you've got to have the right will and the intention. It's not
SPEAKER_02:just a mindless movement.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Because if you sit and do your meditation in the morning, I'm going to do my meditation to tick the box. You've not done the practice. Do you know what that reminds me of? Get in your car
SPEAKER_02:and don't turn the engine on. Yeah. Nothing's happening. It's got no fucking fuel
SPEAKER_00:going into it. And that's what your intention is. The energy and the intention emphasizes those movements. And I'll know this from practicing careers in the morning. When I'm just doing it to do it or to feel the physical benefit, there's nothing like the energy or the spiritual connection. It can't come through. It generally doesn't. Unless I'm like, no, just be in this practice. I know you've got half an hour and this takes 20 minutes and we want to rush, but there's no point in doing it. There generally isn't. And Brit Marling, like her other films, go watch iOrigins, fantastic film that she's written and directed like she did with the OA. But in the OA, it's just everything lands so deeply and incredibly. And I judge people's, not character state, but depth. of being in media but if they've seen you away and if they don't like it I'm like we can't be
SPEAKER_02:friends look we'll
SPEAKER_00:have
SPEAKER_02:respect for your actions but the level of depth I'm afraid it's not going to
SPEAKER_00:be there you're showing obviously it's an exaggeration of how I think towards it but what I do believe it does speak of
SPEAKER_02:your beliefs and your core beliefs Do you know what I mean? If we're just watching fucking Love Island and this garbage shit TV, don't get me wrong, a little sprinkling of light. I'll watch Invincible, the cartoon show. It's nice to have something that's not always sacred, sacred, trauma heal, trauma heal, but come on. They're not just that.
SPEAKER_00:It's if you can resonate with what's being presented. If you understand something, like again, when I was younger and watched The Matrix, it's like, oh, If I spoke to someone now, do you see the major? It's like, yeah, the action is so cool, isn't it? It's like, no, it's just a cool film. We'll just
SPEAKER_02:spar then. I know Kung Fu. Well, that's what I actually, I think you've already touched on this already, but using what they do in the OA, the body as a spiritual instrument. So it's like technology. It's not like, because he uses robots
SPEAKER_01:to do the same
SPEAKER_02:thing. The five movements, they're more than just gestures, right? gestures that word gestures they represent an ancient way of activating like divine power much like the sacred mudras or qigong like at the those the astute people the people who've been paying attention is i've been sat using the dhyana mudra for however long this episode is because that helps give me tranquil concentration So it's concentrated, the divine presence, but it's with a calm, relaxed flow state manner so that I can be with you rather than, because sometimes I'm like, oh, manage the time and with this guy, this episode is the thing we're doing. So I wanted you to just bring up that bit about how it does link to like Qigong and mudras, the spiritual technology, which is our vessel.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. What's interesting on that is because that energy way, that natural way, the idea of five people needed and the connection to do that and the will and the character's name is Elodie in season two and she talks to OA and helps her and she helps Hap and she gives Hap the machines because she says how do I do without all the people and she's like oh, you're still doing it that way. This is the moment that he starts having sex with her. Yeah, she says, remember this feeling as well, which is a very important key. I'm not going to go into that. But the robots and the machines that she gives to him, and it's like, this is, to me, that's how we should be using technology. Like, not demonizing it, not thinking everything's bad, in conjunction with conscious awareness and ideally fused with nature. I think it's Singapore where they've got beautiful, like, technological houses weaved with trees and stuff around like that's the sweet spot for me yeah it's like it's almost seen as idealistic or utopia but it's it's not that's what we could be creating
SPEAKER_02:sense
SPEAKER_00:it makes sense like the
SPEAKER_02:technology technology allows us to become more than just that what do you think the fucking body was in the first place it was tech not it's just technology that took an eternity to master but now we can do this
SPEAKER_00:well it's like brings it into
SPEAKER_02:just don't forget that you are nature yeah so don't forget the trees are your lungs, the sun is your energy, the wind is the motion, the value, nothing moves without it, the water is the flow. Just don't forget that or you'll become
SPEAKER_00:a machine.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah,
SPEAKER_00:separate from trying to conquer and tame the world as opposed to work with it. But in Dune, when they, like Star Wars, they use a retro form of technology in the kind of futuristic setting, but Dune more so, like their ships, their dress, very futuristic, but no computers. because of what the thinking machine calls the massive galactic war, because it got sent in and tried to take over. Went all Ultron. Went full Ultron. Went full Ultron. And it's like, okay, so don't create a thinking machine in the likeness of man's mind is one of the lines. And it's like, ah, we're doing that with the AI. I didn't even clock that with June. Yeah. Well, again, this is the first time I watched June. I was like, that was great, but I don't know what I've just seen. I knew it was layered. You
SPEAKER_02:need to watch it. So I had to go back through it. Well, I'm watching it again, and I'm like... this is a new film. Yeah. And I don't know if it's because I've watched Dune 2 now and I've got some deep reverence for it that I might not have had originally. Perspective. You get a lot of perspective with those kind of movies.
SPEAKER_00:I think that, yeah. That's why they give you and they feed you spiritually and mentally.
SPEAKER_02:Perspective is definitely, like, that's why I'll re-watch shit that I like and also that I didn't like so if someone goes no seriously obviously not all the time I'm not wasting my energy but if someone's like nah mate trust me you didn't watch it properly and I say you said that about a film I'd be like right I'll watch it again give it another try and I'm like oh that's what I was missing I was too much that Michael and I was like okay
SPEAKER_00:okay you have to say that to anyone who's watched Matrix 2, 3 and 4 and they slay it it's like you missed it You missed it. You wanted more of something of the first. You wanted a copy.
SPEAKER_02:You want me, me, me, me, me, me, me. More me. Also with the OA then, the power of shared belief. You kind of already touched on it, but you need five. Reality is influenced not just by the individual belief as much as we love that because we know that's what we have most control over, but by a collective intention, which is why collective prayer so much more powerful than just you and and this is a guy who used to go to christian school and scoffed at it all but i want you to all understand like i was vilifying all of these things because i didn't like the dressing i didn't like the wrapping that came in and the concept is echoed though in quantum mysticism and many spiritual traditions that it is all not just one that must come to this belief in relation to how the OA
SPEAKER_00:talked about it. In Buddhism and their idea of why the Buddhas will always return until everyone's awake from samsara. Until you realise we're all the same, it continues until the veil of truth is in everybody's eyes and we don't lie and we don't say these things until it's fully got. we keep coming back we keep in the sensory and the
SPEAKER_02:soul isn't bound by the body so it doesn't fear hell like you're going I need this done in 80 years 90 max the spirit's going alright fuck you like you know when you die as Mario on a game you're not like no because you know bro if you run out of continues I'm gonna go do the whole world again that's the fucking start but you get what I'm saying and that joy effort I think you touched on it beautifully there I don't even think there's anything else that needs to be said I think you touched on it where the buddha keeps coming back why the buddy's already but the buddy the buddy's already ascended and whatever no no no he hasn't because he is not separate from you and you haven't so he's gonna have to see if he can help you up or she which uh one of my journeys that i did you know those floating ones were called being buddha after i did vipassana to show that buddha isn't a person it's a state of being and we can and basically what i do in the journey is you got the um tada to teach you to meet all the buddhas of the past and they all show you through different I won't give it away in case you ever want to come so I wanted to bring in a couple more now but we'll briefly touch on them one I think we've already mentioned again so I hope you don't mind me bringing this one in Avatar I mean I couldn't not bring Avatar in so we'll start with the interconnectedness and the Gaia theory so this is what Ewa represents like divine planetary consciousness and that's akin to like obviously mother earth and all like hindu prana so yeah just let's speak about avatar
SPEAKER_00:bro yeah i think avatar was one it was just incredible to watch that when it first came out i saw it about three times in the cinema just aesthetically like it is aesthetically the the story has been done like a million times um i think it's dances with wolves it's like one of the variations june it's the same as avatar in a wave you've got the He does have that bias. He wants to fight them, then he becomes a native, learns their ways, then he becomes their protector and their leader. June, the Freeman, the Arrakis. And it's, again, it's in so many films. But I think Avatar's like the standout of that formula now. It's kind of made it its own version of it. It is.
SPEAKER_02:Have you seen that film, Heretic, yet, with Hugh Grant? It's really good. We watched it the other night and he's basically got these Mormon girls and he's making them face everything and saying the one true religion. Again, spoiler alert if you've not seen Heretic. I might watch this. Right, fuck it. Don't worry. Carry
SPEAKER_01:on.
SPEAKER_02:Basically, he's making you question all the religions and how they're all carbon copies and what's the actual true religion. That's all I'm going to say. Okay. I'll give it a
SPEAKER_00:watch. I like a bit of Hugh
SPEAKER_02:Grant. I quite like that Avatar's sort of like take on it being because it's another planet. it's not we're also accustomed to the name of americans exactly which there you go and what there's something for you anyway but just the fact that it's like right we can all say right mother earth but this is making you think of any planet as a consciousness and i don't know i just there's something about that and the navi spiritual practices they're like deep bond with nature that just reflects the indigenous, the animism, the shamanic traditions where everything has a spirit. Touch a tree. I say goodnight to my plants. Why wouldn't I? To me, why would I not? I think some people, and I was one of them, are just so disconnected.
SPEAKER_01:They
SPEAKER_02:just don't get it. That's a living being. It just doesn't act like you, so you can't anthropomorphise it to relate with it. life force is all alive so I just wanted to get your take on that like the Navi spiritual practices like when he's killing killing the dogs because he's just trying to protect himself that's because you were walking like a knobhead breathing loudly and then she's killing him like I'm a vegetarian but put me in a survival situation I will kill an animal and I will say a prayer like when I'm eating food I don't eat meat but I will have dairy so I have to show respect that that came as a consequence to my actions so I do like breath work over it then I remind myself of what I had to be sacrificed to give me this moment to sustain myself and enjoy the flavours and then a nod to it and then I can eat it and people think I'm blessing my food no my food's blessing me
SPEAKER_00:it's a nice nice sentiment and the food's blessing you yeah what we eat what we take in it does become a part of us doesn't it that part with the dogs and she always says that line you're like a baby I always remember that line apologies for accents and they did popularise the statement a lot spiritual crowd using I see you came from that the upsurge came from that film not that it probably originates there but I see you and it's such a beautiful meaning it's like I see the truth of what you are eye and eye yeah whether it's the animal it's like we get it it's alive and we connect to it um and his like ignorance of coming from unconsciousness into consciousness of understanding this connection to life and nature and the consciousness of the planet like plants are conscious i believe do you think it helps that they have this thing in the hair that connects them to it yeah what would that be like would that representation be i'm not sure but that metaphorically it's a straight connection isn't it and you need to like with the horses that they try and tame and all the flying birds they have to okay we're together now that's it we're bonded how will
SPEAKER_02:I know if it chooses me it's going to try and fucking kill you that's what Isabella did when I first met her but it does bring me into the next point the body as a vessel for the soul so you've got Jake Sully he's leaving his human body permanently now has he stopped being Jake Sully yeah Or was Jake Sully just words that were sort of a label for this organization that housed the soul? And how when he becomes Na'vi, that mirrors ideas of like reincarnation, soul transfer and enlightenment. I was terrified for so much of my life. And the thing that's really started helping me is whatever leaves me wasn't me. So why would you be scared of things that aren't you leaving? it's not and and if it is you that leaves well you don't fucking know about it because you got either way and i just wanted to bring that in the body as a vessel for the soul but using the jake sully sort of iteration
SPEAKER_00:of that and the similar to what you're saying with the the oa and the change of dimensions from one body to the next or in that world other versions of himself which is the same as this another version of him using the avatar body who embodies that because it suits Shuey is more to fit into that demographic as well. He's got legs for starters. He's got legs. That's a big win. Big win. Giant, blue, massive. Yeah. Sexy blue girlfriend, you know. Gets to run around naked all day, living the dreams. Who doesn't want to do that? Yeah, living the dream. I did
SPEAKER_02:that in air when I went to Greece and Italy and we just went naked on the beach for the first time. Was it like a nudist beach or something? Oh, yeah. Generally popular. Virtualized children. And I'm there with me fucking one-inch wonder. We're all free, guys. We're all just a body, man. Take your body prisons off. It was like swimming in the sea just felt right. Just lying there with a book just felt right. And then parts were coming up. This isn't, what will people think?
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, fuck it. Just chilling, the sea gently lapping at your balls. Yeah, that's the one. Anyway, back to Avatar. Back to Jake Sully after we sullied the episode. Yeah, that, you know, again, it's, I see like, And the same when you go to a video game and playing an RPG and you pick the attire and how you want them to look and what skills they have. That's what we get to do through life. Sometimes we feel so far removed that we can't. So it's just living in the projected world. Like Jake, when he's running first, living in that projected. And me, I'm still a bit dumb and unconscious, but look, I can shoot these and do that. As opposed to like, what does this vessel actually give me the abilities to do? I like that. What can I expand it into doing? And adjusting yourself to that. Like if you want the avatar body, For me, I've just changed again, which I go in cycles with, but changing all my weight training to two full-body sessions a week, four yogas a week, and then mobility two, three times a week. I'll put Thai boxing back in at some point. Don't fuck with Craig. Going through those stages of how it feels to be a bit more stiff, strong and bulkier looking, but stiffer, less agile. bit heavier and more tired really, and energy, as opposed to being lighter, fluid, open. Why'd you become so skinny? You've changed the avatar, right? Well, actually, I've
SPEAKER_02:just been getting really ill and I can't hit the gym as much. So I think it's the balance of muscle, cardio, mobility, that's the sweet spot.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, again, for what purpose? What
SPEAKER_02:do we want to do it for? I find it limiting. I find I can't dance properly unless I'm doing yoga. Yanga, whatever that is. Sananga. Fucking Tabasco for the eyes. Go on then. Oh, mate, I love it. Like, sacred rage. And, well, you know what? I'm not going to go on about me because I'm mindful of time now. Let's just go into the last point about Avatar, really. Materialism versus spiritual wisdom. So the note that I've got is the conflict between the humans who want to exploit Pandora for its resources. Unobtainium is
SPEAKER_00:the name of the
SPEAKER_02:object, isn't it? They fought hard and long about that. Really tried. Subtle. And Dune, again, the spice. It's always ravaging it for the resources. And then the Na'vi, am I saying that right? Na'vi? Who live in harmony with it. So this reflects a broader spiritual struggle between ego-driven greed... and sacred stewardship.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, bang on, bang on. That drive for humans or for us or for the ego to want something, okay, it's going to give us more money. You seen the second one?
SPEAKER_02:yeah the part where they I want to be the one that flies Isabella wants to be the one who swims that seems how it is with masculine feminists she really so you're that you want to get
SPEAKER_00:I want to be flying mate living in the trees flying
SPEAKER_02:lucid dreams first thing let's go for a fly and then do some work that's literally I've only ever had two lucid dreams and the second one I flew to my dad at the third floor of Summerfield very creative Michael that's where my unconscious was at but like she just she loves to surf whereas me I'm on my arse I'm on my arse and I'm like I can see it and when I did it for the first time I was like okay
SPEAKER_00:I'm so freaking surfing well interestingly it feels like closest I'm into flying than surfing
SPEAKER_02:that's
SPEAKER_01:what I'm saying
SPEAKER_02:whereas when we did the parasailing I was like dying to do it and then when I did it I was loving it but also I kept it's funny we had like a recording and I'm going a bit scary though isn't it I don't want to say it about 20 times a bit scary though isn't it so I do like the flying but the materialism the spiritualism like I mean, it's not
SPEAKER_00:subtle. It's quite obvious what they do. Bluntly obvious and where it gets a bit like, a bit naff when you see it. And this is it why it's, again, how I see it as the baseline of that story. They've not done too much to it. It's that blunt, it's obvious, but it's so beautiful and the connections and the message and what they show is great.
SPEAKER_02:Sometimes you need to be a bit blunt because some people are blunt. Yeah, I guess. And if you want to speak, you can go real esoteric and about 10 people. Yeah, that's great for those 10 people. And I don't know, as long as, but, like Anytime said, if you can explain it to a sexual, then you get it. Then you get it in some way. So it's one of them. It's one of them. It's like, do you want to impress everyone or do you want to impress a few? You'll go, I see what
SPEAKER_00:you did there. Unobtainable. And it's a balance, isn't it? Yeah, of course, of course. Again, it's like it's open for everybody. I've loved the film, seen it so many times. That part of the materialism in the second one, again, they use the words again, but when they... kill the whales and they mine the fluid from the pineal gland, which they say now, and it's called ambrosia, which ambrosia was the food of the gods. Fantastic cheese. Oh. Great rice pudding. Oh, lovely. They take the ambrosia, the food from the gods, which is like the secretion of the pineal gland. And they say that's worth like 80 million pounds or something to get that stuff. But again, they still use this idea of beautiful world because, oh, that was it, that stuff. It keeps people young. It, it stops them aging so that's why it's worth so much but again if you attach it to the body
SPEAKER_02:that's how fucking important it is yeah mate you've seen Altered Carbon I watched an episode or two and then it's just going to be one of the ones where you go re-watch it because I couldn't get into it season one was great I couldn't get into it again
SPEAKER_00:these themes might have been where I was at yeah it's a bit dark I like that Yule Kinnaman fantastic again like I won't give away
SPEAKER_02:Heretic you don't give away and I'll go back to it it was good let me look at the time we'll be a sec what are we on Yeah, a tiny bit longer. We've got an hour and 50 minutes.
SPEAKER_00:Mate, we didn't even go deep into
SPEAKER_02:it. Like I said, I said I wanted a spin-off last time, but life took hold of us both. Do you want to throw one in there? Keep going, mate. The last one that I had, because I didn't think six would be enough, would be Lord of the Rings. Yeah. Are we a Lord of the Rings fan?
SPEAKER_00:Big fan,
SPEAKER_02:mate. Because that was going to be whether we could be really good friends or not, because for me, the rest are good. They're very good. That's why I've picked the five. But Lord of the Rings for me is the G. That's my G. That's my G. That's like the one where my mum will appreciate this because my dad loved Lord of the Rings but he loved Star Wars. He was a bit more of a sci-fi guy whereas my mum was more fantasy and just Gandalf, Frodo. One thing that I really liked was that Frodo And I didn't like it at first, which shows my growth as well, that he didn't throw it in. And how Tolkien says, you don't understand where he'd been starving, he'd lost, he'd gone through hell and back. He finally got there, and that shows how it doesn't make him a baddie. He just hit his limit. And he got a lot further than you'd have seen a lot of the others get in. Look at Boromir and da-da-da-da-da-da. But one of the spiritual themes, we'll keep it on track, is... Power and corruption. How could you not bring that up with Lord of the Rings and the one ring as an allegory for attachment, ego and temptation?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. It's just a side note of Lord of the Rings. I absolutely adore it and extended editions, of course. Are there
SPEAKER_02:other ones?
SPEAKER_00:That's how you know a true fan. The one quote that Gandalf says, it's my golden ticket if I'm skirting late, which happens quite a bit. I'll never be late, but I'll be on time. And Gandalf says, a wizard is never late, nor is he early in your life, precisely when he means to. And that's it. That's the line. You just get to throw out my wizard, I'll arrive when I arrive. Everything you've said, the themes on that, Tolkien what a fantastic writer I've read those books as well I had
SPEAKER_02:them read to me before I knew what the fuck they were talking about that's dedication my mum read them to me when I was a kid so you know your mum reads you like she was like Hobbit Narnia Lord of the Rings and I'm just like what the fuck is going on but I'm still loving it and then like for me that That was the closest a film's ever come to being the book.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, he did such a great job. There's a reason. You know when you've got Harry Potter fans or Lord of the Rings fans? I saw this meme about it and it was like, Harry Potter maybe one or two Oscars, Lord of the Rings 12. Do you know what I mean? Harry Potter's a G. Mate, I'm not on board. I love Harry Potter. I don't mind it. Maybe it's because
SPEAKER_02:I grew up on it. You're putting it next to Lord of the Rings and I'm afraid it's going to...
SPEAKER_00:First round knockout. It's a funny one, because I'd have these conversations like, my partner she definitely she loves Harry Potter and she'll re-watch it again and she doesn't like Lord of the Rings and you're still with you're having a baby with this person bloody hell well she doesn't know Boromir as a name from Lord of the Rings so when the kids come back she's like Boromir is that the one you'd pick nah I was going to say Aragorn all day Gimli just for the joke Gimli yeah Aragorn Gimli Seton the connection between Harry Potter and like something about it just doesn't pull me in I read the first four books and I watched the films but it's like I know that more women would love Lord of the Rings love Harry Potter than they would love Lord of the Rings okay and you know like we said the air and the sea there's just these natural puns it doesn't you know it doesn't mean everything it's a general way by the way it's definitely generalism but I just think of the people who love Harry Potter from the feminine side and have Lord of the Rings there's a clear dissonance in my experience of that but Harry Potter across the board it seems generally well loved all around but I'm just Each to their own.
SPEAKER_02:We were going to be
SPEAKER_00:really good
SPEAKER_02:friends. Has that cost it? Nah, you'll like Lord of the Rings. Harry Potter wasn't on the list. Do you get what I'm saying? Let's just bring back to this power and corruption and this One Ring being deceived by Sauron. The spiritual connotations behind that. How are you feeling about that particular
SPEAKER_00:part of the story? Whether it's the dark side in Star Wars and this Again, another metaphor for something else like this ring, gold little ring. It's always connected to the evil, isn't it? Like when he puts it on or you can use it to go invisible. Every time you use it, you're kind of going to lose a bit more of yourself to these things that you can be seen. And yeah, it's nice how the hobbits, because they're so pure of heart, they can do the journey. but Boromir as you said they can't one by one except Aragorn one by one they start dropping
SPEAKER_02:he might be one of my favourite like hero Superman kind of characters I kind of lean more towards your wizardy shamanic weirdo characters but if you're just going for your stoic absolute full
SPEAKER_00:archetypes he's I think the ideal king archetype is Aragon. He is the king. He cares, he does what needs to be done, and eventually he can lead. And his whole struggle with when he says, I keep hope for men, but I leave none for myself, and him sort of accepting, like Paul Atreides in June, accepts his role and what it is, and then he becomes a king because it serves everybody. He didn't want to do it for
SPEAKER_02:himself. But that's where great leaders, like he says, like a great leader doesn't choose it. it's thrust upon him and they almost with a heavy heart take it on and it's like that's who you want leading you you don't want the motherfuckers you want power you don't want the guys who are going give me that ring go and I'll do this like nah it's Frodo who's like you know what makes me laugh though it's like how long does Gandalf leave that ring with Frodo It's like 72 years or something daft. Maybe I'm using it hyperbole.
SPEAKER_00:It's a few
SPEAKER_02:years. It's a few years and he just like got off. Is it safe? Yo, you leave a ring with me for that long and it might have just dropped it down
SPEAKER_00:a fucking toilet or anything. Do you know what I mean? That's what I loved about the books is when you read that and like Gandalf, because he goes, and you see it when you watch the first film, he's back at Minas Tirith that you don't see until the third movie and they put it in there. I was like, that was great. And because he's been there researching for like a year or so, hasn't he? Oh, no, a lot
SPEAKER_02:longer. I think he's gone on other fucking adventures and shit, do you know what I mean? Forgot about poor old Frodo. He always does that Gandalf. He goes, I'm just going to put you in the most perilous situation. Good luck. I'll see you when you're about to die. Oh, the sun is shining on the third day. Don't worry. So I wanted to also touch on, because it is very about the burden of power and the nature of temptation. So like the One Ring isn't just a weapon. It's a test of character. And Frodo, Boromir, Gollum, which we can't forget, vital character, each character, each embody like different responses to power. You've got self-sacrifice, you've got corruption and you've got obsession. And then this raises the question, does great power always lead to ruin or can it be wielded responsibility?
SPEAKER_00:It's a really good line I heard about and it was like a change of that, like absolute power corrupts absolutely. It was like a difference of that and how it's... that it's people who are corrupted they're attracted to power not that power corrupts you if you're corrupt you're attracted to power and it's like it's an interesting way to to see it because when do we want power it's when we want to control or feel weak like even what we might see in a good sense is like oh if you know i've been bullied and the only way i can get that back is if i feel powerful and strong well
SPEAKER_02:fear leads to anger
SPEAKER_00:well yeah Anakin's whole journey again but I don't think I hate you I hate you you were my brother mate that whole I could watch that again should we just put it on now let's watch it that point of when you choose like to Because I try to frame everything, as you said, it's not like black and white, but the other side of that, of being powerless, you can't do anything in the world. If you don't know how to, now I remember years back when I'd do one-on-one sessions with people for Jungian analysis and a lot of it would be like, especially spiritual people tend to at the start, not everyone, but I went through that journey where you're just an anarchist and you hate society and structures and the government and you're against all of this stuff in a very strong way. And a lot of that can be because you can feel powerless and like, oh, they're lying and cheating and we want to do things against them, which, again, there is a truth towards that. But more so, if you've got power in your side, you can do a neo and you can stop the bullets because you know they're not really there. You can't do that if you don't believe in your own power. And to feel insecure and... you might have said this for yourself in the past, but having those people-pleasing qualities and checking that everything's okay and all right.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I had a part when I was on LSD and I was just going up to everyone, are you okay? Every five minutes or so. Are you okay? It's lovely. Are you okay 20 times in an hour? You know what I mean? It's like, bro, I'm okay. And then my friend Andrea was like, why do you keep asking everyone? And my go-to thing now is meditate with that energy. People who aren't okay attack me. That leads to unsavory scenarios. So if I make sure they're all okay... But then I'm not really checking they're okay, am I? I'm just making sure they ain't going
SPEAKER_00:to attack me. Yeah, because we feel powerless. We feel like that attack's going to come and we don't have what we needed for defense because at a point we were defenseless and we got attacked. And that scene, where's the power in that? And like what we were saying with the Neo thing before and people going, oh, I am Jesus. It's like, oh, the power's gone to the head. I am the chosen one. Yeah, it's not gone to the heart. It's gone to the concept of power. And that's just going to the scared
SPEAKER_02:little boy and girl. so what do they need they need mummy and daddy not outside themselves they need the divine masculine which was presence and the divine feminine which was love unconditional love now that i don't think there is another kind of love personally and that's where your mum and dad for yourself you're pairing those parts of yourself so that they don't seek the power and the power comes to them because you just sit still and go ah And then funny enough, and Ram Dass says this, when you don't want it, you'll get it. And it's like, that's when you really are powerful. The rest is pseudo power, in my opinion. And it's fleeting as well. It's built on poor structure. Last little bit then before we wrap up. I'm not harsh about them. People who really want to understand the depth of what we're talking about, this is going to be their vibe. If not, it might be unobtainium. So the last three points, and I'll let you go back to your lovely partner, who doesn't like Lord of the Rings. Mortality. We can't speak about Lord of the Rings without talking about the longing for immortality. So the elves live forever, but are fading, while men fear death, but are gifted with an unknown afterlife. so this tension mirrors real world spiritual teachings on impermanence reincarnation and the soul's journey would you rather be the elf that never dies but fades or would you rather be the man that will die but there's something else
SPEAKER_00:next I think there's something really poetic about being a human in general like Out of them, I'll be Gandalf. I know he's not in there. You can't be Gandalf because I'm Gandalf. You can be Saruman. You know, when he dies and he's had this fight with the Balrog. Gandalf,
SPEAKER_02:yes, that's what they called me. Gandalf the Great. I'm Gandalf the White. That
SPEAKER_00:whole bit. That whole bit where he's telling Pippin about death. I love that scene, man. One of my favourite scenes. It's not the end? Yeah, it's not the end. And he talks about the fields and he's like... That doesn't sound so bad. You know, and he's saying, like, why he doesn't remember everything because he's lived for thousands of years. Like, you know, he's like, oh, that was my name. But that point of... Yeah,
SPEAKER_02:oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Booker B is like, why doesn't he remember his name? Like, he's remembering... When you were younger....Aragon and Legolas knew his name, but why does he say Gandalf the Grey? Yes. That was my... It's like, how long have you been back for? Not long. But, you know, more important information has come to the forefront. He's like, is that many names? Who I
SPEAKER_02:was, he gives a fuck. Yeah, yeah, you are. It's more relevant.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, what he's doing to them and for them as they're this age. I like your proper
SPEAKER_02:name. Your friend
SPEAKER_00:here. Your friend here. That's my kid's
SPEAKER_02:name. I'd say that.
SPEAKER_00:Ain't it? Yeah, my friend here.
SPEAKER_02:You've got to say my name like that, they'll hear
SPEAKER_00:you. Well, yeah, I think what you're saying, you know, that idea that, because death is a cleanser, isn't it? And it's like, it comes to us because we need it. We need it because of ego and the structure that we have. And if we can't sort of work with the idea of impermanence in our daily waking state you know and it's happening the fruit's going to rot you know the walls will eventually fall down civilizations will change it's everywhere if you if you can't if you just attach
SPEAKER_02:to this you can never be that yeah just being good imagine just never because that means that not one cell can change then
SPEAKER_01:yeah
SPEAKER_02:you've died a million times a trillion times you have We just kept the same name and the body looked similar.
SPEAKER_00:When do we make ourselves ill? It's when we're trying to fight some form of change or we're doing something that disrupts the natural system. So you think like of an illness within ourself, if we've done something like your organ's gone dodgy or you smoke a lot and your lungs are out, you're disrupting the natural healing process, right? So the information that's going to that then can't do its own thing because we want it to be another way as opposed to what's the adjustment that's required that nature always knows. body always knows the trees always you know
SPEAKER_02:in m during the bit i loved when i re-watched it and i didn't realize how smart it was was when he's in the sandstorm with the fucking dragonfly thing and it's like it's almost like an obi-wan moment in it it's like useful and he just turns it off and becomes the flow and that's how he survives he doesn't fight the flow of the universe he just to me i didn't the first time i watched it i think i was just trying to understand what the fuck's going on yeah and then the second time last night i was like yeah
SPEAKER_00:that's a new
SPEAKER_02:Skywalker moment if you've ever seen one
SPEAKER_00:and the an extra bit of a layer for that is he sees Jameis you know the first like I mean that's a great thing to talk about the guy he has to kill to become Paul Atreides to become the quiz watch Haderach happens when he does that thing he's never done and he's afraid to do is to take a man's life and he kills Jameis and yeah that was a part of prescience to go into in the book when he sees him and he's in the dragonfly flying And Jammis is his friend teaching him. He's saying, let me show you. Yeah, that was another path. When he killed
SPEAKER_02:him, I was like, what?
SPEAKER_00:I
SPEAKER_02:thought that was going to be his main fucking Obi-Wan character
SPEAKER_00:and he's gone already. That was another timeline that he has access to as the Quiz with Chadder actually he can get to. Right. So that's, Jammis would have been his friend had events gone another way. Right. And some are really, I'll tie
SPEAKER_02:this
SPEAKER_00:up. The only way that, you know, at the end of the second one, and they start the holy war they're about to go off aren't they because he does what he does yeah the jihad i'm having your
SPEAKER_02:daughter
SPEAKER_00:sorry yeah sorry mary jane like that's not happening gotta go do what he's got to do to the universe duty has called there's a lot about why you wrote the second book was to say you shouldn't follow charismatic leaders so it changes but still pure heart events get out of hand um and yeah with janice going to if he oh that was it what I was about to say is the only way that he could avoid what's to come in the future is if he killed everybody there and then including his mum and himself is the only way to change the future and then there's all these different paths with the presence which he might go down and has to have events a certain way but sees these other timelines like this
SPEAKER_02:Doctor Strange moment
SPEAKER_00:where he's like that's the one that's the one And he has to try and stay on that path to make the event occur. They go into it so well. But by focusing on a path and the outcome, not just to make it occur, but because you've seen it, you've created that future. It's sick. It's sick. And what it says about our mind and what we even conceptualize. It's like
SPEAKER_02:the prophecy, the chosen one. We're balancing a force and they're thinking, oh, balancing a force. How many Sith can there be, guys? How many Jedi are there right now? Do the maths. So finishing up, then last two points is, We've got nature versus industrialization, which I don't think is a shock with Tolkien being in the time that he was. So deeply rooted in Tolkien's love for nature is the reflection of spiritual harmony with earth and how, no shock, the hobbits are his main Gs.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. You know, there's a place, I can't remember how far it is, like an hour or so away, where Tolkien got the inspiration for the Shire. My brother got married at the hotel. Malham
SPEAKER_02:Cove or something. Beautiful place, man. That's more Harry Potter vibes.
SPEAKER_00:I don't know what it was called. Find out and
SPEAKER_02:we'll go
SPEAKER_00:and we'll have a... It's a nice one. It's
SPEAKER_02:almost a Harry Potter then. You can get our Harry Potter down. I know. We can guard him, Leviosa.
SPEAKER_00:Just dropkick someone. Just
SPEAKER_02:take a gun. I mean, one thing I will say is Gandalf over Dumbledore. Always. I mean, I'm sorry. Dumbledore's just... He didn't fight in Balrogs.
SPEAKER_00:No. He got murdered. Got a chance against Gandhi. with his cane and his glasses passive and his passivity that will bring peace to the world but the erm what was the point so it was about nature versus
SPEAKER_02:industrialization because you see like saruman chopping down all the trees and like rip them up and then the end to like i thought you were a friend i'm gonna fuck you up now pippin and merrier just getting high by the way definitely getting high and pissed
SPEAKER_00:definitely well he liked a bit of uh tolkien was known for his love of the the long bottom leaf himself barely old toby barely old toby he bangs it
SPEAKER_02:in there all the time i love that
SPEAKER_00:shyly
SPEAKER_02:not wrong with it mate stop vilifying it just don't abuse it i love the way that the blue have you heard of the blue lions
SPEAKER_00:blue lions yeah
SPEAKER_02:yeah so they're a Sikh warrior sort of and they use deck ceremonies which is using the cannabis
SPEAKER_00:oh yeah where it's legal
SPEAKER_02:in ceremonial oh mate so it's water there's no heating process because they say it's no I'm not going to give it away we'll have a little chat but they're Anyway, yeah, Marion and Pippin getting
SPEAKER_00:high. Fierce industrialization. Yeah, well, you know, because they show the cracks in the land only in the burning of the trees and how industrial. What's the tower called where Saruman and Gandalf have the fight? wherever that Orthanc Tower is it
SPEAKER_02:oh my mum would know
SPEAKER_00:come on put it in the comments please they're so steel based aren't they and Mordor and like the bluntness of the steel and the objects as opposed to the nature and the beauty of the land
SPEAKER_02:especially when you were talking about like how the elves have almost entwined nature with their architecture brings us back to that what you were saying earlier was it Lothlorien and there you've got oh I think we've been talking too long what's it called Elrond lives there
SPEAKER_00:yeah it's not La Florian what's it called no
SPEAKER_02:it's not oh my god this is amateur moment isn't it Livendell no Rivendell Livendell that was close Rivendell my mum would spank me we've been talking too long my mind's burnt so yeah just how beautiful that is but then it's funny like No matter how beautiful all that was, Sam gets it, it's all they've awarded, and he's there, and then he's like,
SPEAKER_00:when are we going back? Yeah, it's time to go home. Yeah,
SPEAKER_02:when
SPEAKER_00:are we going back
SPEAKER_02:now? Oh, when are
SPEAKER_00:we going back? Yeah, Sam, he's got a few years. Yeah, he's got some shit to do. Doesn't lose any weight, though, on his journey. Yeah, and then... Stays a little bit toned. I can understand
SPEAKER_02:why Gollum was a bit dubious about him eating that fucking... Bread. I used to hate that part.
SPEAKER_00:you know when he's like it's him and he's got the crumbs on him i'm like you
SPEAKER_01:little shit that
SPEAKER_02:shows how gollum knew how to manipulate him because gollum's been there like more than gollum's deep in it like he's like had it for fucking hundreds of years you know what i mean and it's like he knows exactly how that ring's going to be twisting frodo and it's like no matter like of course it's not fucking that's obvious and yet how many times have we had an argument with a love one vilified somebody that we fucking cared about it's like a part of you knows how to push them buttons don't eat my
SPEAKER_00:bread bitch
SPEAKER_02:don't be don't share food because she might have done that voice giving a falafel falafel she got it no we don't condone domestic violence last bit then sacrifice and redemption so we've already touched on sacrifice a bit and i think that is really poignant to me like to see somebody else give up something for the betterment of somebody they perceive as separate to themselves so Frodo's burden mirrors like that Christ-like suffering while Gollum represents the shadow self and one that's never truly gone but it can be either integrated or leads you downfall so many people shadow work I think they think that means getting rid of the darkness yeah and I think Tolkien his journey through that three just masterpieces like that really epitomized it so just your thoughts on the sacrifice and the redemption
SPEAKER_00:like
SPEAKER_02:that that moment
SPEAKER_00:yeah I really like that I've never considered it being like the shadow of Frodo I like that like the light and the dark side and Yeah, because Frodo was really compassionate, wasn't he?
SPEAKER_02:Frodo, Gollum started out just like in another shire. It's not Manchester, it's Liverpool.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, how Sam's calling him names and he's like, why did you do that? And he's like, because that's what he is, he's a villain. And he's right. He's right, but... But how they treated that villain again, like with Anakin, how they treated him along the way, because when he got rid of Gollum and he was just Smeagol, he was like... He's like, yeah, you know, I'll help. Smeagol.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Smeagol. Smeagol's free. And he's like. And then he gets done over by Faramir, doesn't he? Because Frodo says, okay, he's there. Because he has no choice as well. It doesn't matter. But that's enough for him to go, right, I can't trust these guys anymore. Look what they've done. So the shadow takes fully over again. Yeah, the idea of sacrifice and like doing something that you might not necessarily want to do, but you know it's got to be done. I don't think you have to go into it. whistling and smiling you know well that's the other thing you get it done that
SPEAKER_02:fake smile
SPEAKER_01:when i
SPEAKER_02:finally accepted i hate it and i fucking hate shit it was like tears this part was like thank you for fucking being me again and realizing i exist i used to tell everyone i don't hate no one because to me hating someone i would fucking kill them i don't hate nobody nah hate is just intense dislike That's all it is. Yes, I do hate... Doesn't lead to the dark side. Well, you know what? Tune in. Dogma. Doctrine. Tune in to find out. So... That's pretty much what I had. It feels like it was... I hope it was exciting for the listeners as it was for me because this was like... This was like top-tier conversation for me. The spiritual background behind six of the greatest things I've seen on TV and I'm a big story lover. I'm a writer. And... the only other bit I really had was just, um, I had like a little bit, which I'm not really going to go into, but it was just sort of how they all tied in. So you've got like James Cameron being inspired by the indigenous cultures and Eastern philosophies. And then, um, where I wanted to look at the possible discussion was like the illusion of control. When does surrender lead to empowerment? And that's seen in star Wars, the matrix and June. So that, and we won't discuss it, but these are the things, maybe even things for us to just leave the audience with, um, Power and corruption. So can power ever be used without corruption? We've touched on this already as seen in Lord of the Rings, Dune and Star Wars. Sacred versus synthetic. And why do these stories depict industrialization as a threat to spiritual harmony? Again, just mindful inquiries to maybe go and meditate and sit with. And as seen in Avatar, Lord of the Rings and Dune. Breaking free from conditioning. I think that's tied through all of them. And what does it take to wake up? Everyone wants to wake up until it's what it takes to wake up. And then it's like, oh, no, not that though. The blooper, where's the steak? Yeah, exactly. They're like, I wanted to wake up, but not like that. Well, the universe is giving you exact, how are you meant to know if it's not pushing you out of your comfort zone? And that's obviously seen in the Matrix, COA, Dune. And the final thing, the role of the body. spirituality and i know you're you've just done like yoga courses and you've done a lot to do with the body anyway so when does movement ritual or physicality play a role in transcendence as and again i think the oa avatar and june touch on this so that was mine and craig's take on the spiritual background between six i hope i hope i've made Pretty good choices. Good choices, mate.
SPEAKER_00:Very good.
SPEAKER_02:I didn't want to
SPEAKER_00:speak for you, but I was mindful. Great points as well, man. I really like those reflections that you brought up on there.
SPEAKER_02:Now, if anyone wants to find you, because I know you're doing loads of great work, where can they find you, Craig? Just whistle,
SPEAKER_00:and I'll appear. Shadow facts. You've been my friend for many years. Instagram. Instagram. I just do Instagram now. What is it? It's Manny. Craig Seaton with an underscore.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. So if you want to wish him congratulations on the baby, which will definitely be here. Mifrandir will be here. Mifrandir and Gimli Seaton will be here. What is it you're offering as well? Any main things you want to let them know about?
SPEAKER_00:Well, breathwork facilitation training is now gone. We've done the first group. So we're teaching people how to facilitate breathwork. It's a six-month program. And we've ongoing support to help people get started with it as well. You know, you can do courses, yoga, breathwork, whatever. And then once you've done the course, off you go out there with myself and Nigel, staying with people for an extra three months. Nigel Meadows? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I want to get him on. Talk him into it, mate. You've already got Mr. Full Power Cacao on for me. Let's get a bit
SPEAKER_00:of Nige in here. Let's see you get Nige in here. Yeah, so Breathwork teacher training, which I'm really enjoying doing. I've been teaching that eight years, so to step up into the ability to offer out what I've learned and what I feel isn't, you know, most courses as well as a big, there's a whole module on being yourself. Like, how as a teacher do we not copy and paste other teachers? You know, we learn from imitation and skills, but... Me, me, me, me, me. Yeah, how do you bring the you out into it? Because again, the ego is... this individuation. It's wonderful to be an individual. It should be celebrated too. Yeah, definitely. I feel
SPEAKER_02:like people like Eckhart Tolle, sometimes it feels like a bit of vilification. Like what was supposed to be just nothing. And I tried that for a long time. There is no try. Do or do not create. I didn't do that for a long time. Use your instincts, don't think. Maybe we'll even do some sort of collaborate. I'd love to do like a spin-off where maybe we play with this sort of stuff once a month or something and then maybe even with the ether drops. So anyone who's interested in the ether drops, maybe we could do some sort of work together with DreamWorks bringing all those different plant medicines with your really just skillful way of looking at that realm i definitely want to look more into that myself as well with you every night man anything else you want to share with the audience any final words no mate no
SPEAKER_00:go watch those
SPEAKER_02:movies also like if you've listened to us talk about you haven't seen
SPEAKER_00:them shame on you yeah you deserve to have spoilers i think i think really it's the
SPEAKER_02:the
SPEAKER_00:beautiful ability to connect to a piece of art and like however you see it or not if you can get the meaning and what it feels and it opens stuff for you that's your path go with it go down it open through it see new layers and I think Movies, music is for people, but movies, I'm so grateful that we have that medium to go through and to learn from and to buzz off and have these conversations. Some of my big moments of awareness have come through films, and again, June being probably the latest one, too, and I was watching it and reading it and being like, wow, what they put in there is amazing. And it's fuel for me. I get very inspired by the content. I think there's a
SPEAKER_02:reason why we're friends. We've definitely got similar ancestors, I think, even just looking at us you know that slim fuck bill northern yeah northern um so i think the only thing i can leave to say is may the force be with you the force be with you bro he's such a legend didn't he oh i do love a bit of craig uh trusting craig i say so yeah i hope you enjoyed that episode as much as i did doing it that's that's like my That's just for me, Apex. We're not going to get much better than the spiritual depth behind my favourite films because I'm a massive nerd and I really love going deep. So glad that I have Craig to do that with. I hope you enjoyed the episodes. We are in talks, so I actually have a little spin-off where we do deep dives. So it's basically this episode, but rather than just skimming across them, we can deep dive. Probably going to do Star Wars, even though I got a good chunk of it, didn't it? You can tell we love... Space ninjas. So yeah, that was me and Craig. I hope you enjoyed it. If you watched it and you haven't seen any of them, again, what have you been doing with your life? Enjoying nature and loving connecting with people and yourself rather than watching these really cool films. Come on, only playing. But I do love story. Story helps direct us. It's the storytellers, the musicians, the artists that show the world where to go. So these kind of stories with this spiritual depth behind it That's really something that speaks to me. So yeah, hope you enjoyed that. All the details for Craig. If you want to go check out his breathwork stuff, his yoga stuff, his dream work stuff, then I'll put the links for Craig Seaton in the description and also the discount code for the Dream Healer. It's really good stuff. So yeah, I want to get that out to as many people as possible. And then also for myself. So anything to do with meditation. Seriously, I know I go on about meditation, meditation with Michael, what do you expect? But yeah, It's the thing that's allowed me to just change my life. I stopped running. Always running from sensation, from people, from situations, jobs. That's all the addictions were. They were just running, running, running. There was a time for it, but not all the fucking time. So, meditation allows you to just choose to be still, silent, and just sit with it. And then you realise this body's not an enemy. Life is not a... test it's a game yeah well as you can see i'm a very happy person most of the time nowadays and i bloody wasn't so all the details for myself i hope i can help you in some way to show you how to awaken the power of in and then also for transmute because they're fantastic joshua who's doing it is trying to bridge that gap between the esoteric and the mainstream and show everyone this stuff ain't woo woo african drumming dancing singing Lady Astrologer's coming and doing fire ceremonies, a beautiful thing. So go check out Transmute Studio. The link for them will be in the description. Now, I kind of hinted at this, or I think kind of I did. I hinted and teased the next guest, which will be Inner Goose. Inner Goose, a Native American elder, sat around the fires at the Ignite Festival. Shout out to those boys who were going to get on the show as well. And I'm just listening to him talking to everyone, and he's so wise. It's like this guy's got a story to tell, so... graciously came down, did a little happy ceremony for me with these amazing shakers, and then told us his story, which to be honest, it's up there with the stories I've heard. So Native American elder, What more do you want? Come on, like, so yeah, he'll be the next episode. I'll, uh, I'll leave that now just to go and go check out some of the other episodes. Maybe go check out Craig's eating from episode two, season one, you know, see what his, what his original summary story was. And yeah, go check out all the episodes are on the meditation with Michael and website. And, uh, who, who on earth page lost myself. Then I was so taken with the episode who on earth page on that one. It's got all the different episodes, right? Before I leave you, thanks for staying till the end. That's a lot of love. Your attention implies acceptance. That is love. So thank you for loving me. I love you too for staying. If you could like it, and you've said all this time, if you haven't liked it, please help a man out here. Subscribe so you don't miss things like the In A Goose episode and such. Still got some fantastic episodes. And then if you share it with other people because you found this was a great episode, why wouldn't I want to let other people know about it? Nice one. It's appreciated. Otherwise, guys, the products... I'm going to leave you with a little... May the force be with you. Peace and love.
