Forging Resilience
Join us as we explore experiences and stories to help gain fresh insights into the art of resilience and the true meaning of success.
Whether you're seeking to overcome personal challenges, enhance your leadership skills, or simply navigate life's twists and turns, "Forging Resilience" offers a unique and inspiring perspective for you to apply in your own life.
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Forging Resilience
70 Jeanette Meier: Why True Leadership Begins With the Heart
What happens when a leader steps away from strategy and embraces their heart? Twenty years ago, Jeanette Meier made a radical decision – to stop living for others, start loving herself, and rebuild her life on a foundation of emotional truth. This choice transformed not just her personal relationships, but revolutionized her approach to professional leadership.
"I was 100% giver," Jeanette reflects, describing how she once lived entirely for others to the point where "I didn't even know what I liked to eat." Her wake-up moment led her from New York to Barcelona and eventually to developing a leadership philosophy centered on human connection rather than control.
The distinction Jeanette makes between loving yourself and valuing yourself offers profound insight. While she committed to self-love early in her journey, truly valuing herself took much longer – a realization that came through painful lessons about trusting her own judgment. This awareness shapes her approach to leadership, where she focuses on recognizing each person's unique gifts and creating space for them to flourish.
Perhaps most illuminating is her concept of the three entities essential for any relationship: yourself, the other person, and what you create together. This framework applies equally to personal connections and professional collaborations, challenging us to show up authentically while honoring the creative space between us.
For those interested in heart-centered leadership, Jeanette emphasizes practice and patience. Learning to distinguish between the chatter of thoughts and the deeper knowing of the heart takes time – but transforms every interaction. As she beautifully puts it, this approach "plants seeds in people that continue growing long after you're gone."
Ready to explore how leading from the heart might transform your relationships and work?
Connect with Jeanette at jeanettemeier.com or through LinkedIn to continue this powerful conversation.
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Welcome to Forging Resilience, exploring for a different perspective on strength and leadership. Join me as we discuss experiences and stories with guests to help gain fresh insights around challenge, success and leadership. Today's guest is somebody who leads with something most of us have spent a lifetime avoiding the heart. Jeanette Meir isn't your typical leadership expert. She spent two decades in the high-stake world of global business, but somewhere along the line she discovered something far more powerful than strategy, and that is human connection In a world that teaches us to armor up. Jeanette chooses the opposite. She went inward and she built a life and a career from that place of emotional truth. So today, welcome to the show. Jeanette chooses the opposite. She went inward and she built a life and a career from that place of emotional truth. So today, welcome to the show, jeanette. It's a pleasure to have you here.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, Aaron. What a beautiful introduction. You touched my heart.
Speaker 1:I'm glad. I'm glad. Well, let's go straight to it. I got given an introduction to you and you straight away started speaking about the heart from your heart to my heart connection. Big words, very, very direct. I like that. But for people that don't understand, what does it mean to you to speak from your heart, to have something touch your heart?
Speaker 2:you to, to speak from your heart, to to have something touch your heart. I'm, for me it's really and, like you say, people don't understand it very easily. It depends off if you had the experience or not already. No, but it's um, I'm sitting here with you, you're introducing me and I'm, I'm not in my mind, I'm just feeling my heart. So I'm, I'm, I'm conscious of what's happening in my heart, the feelings I I receive, how, how your words are connecting with me, how they impact my heart. No, because you know so, it's when you are in love, let's say in a new relationship, and you, you, you have butterflies in the heart. No, it goes from the heart to the belly. Well, it's the same thing, it's really feeling it all the time. Being in the heart is consciously listen, consciously feel what the heart is feeling, saying through those emotions and those feelings. So when you said this beautiful introduction, it touched my heart.
Speaker 1:So I'm in my heart, so I'm understanding that you felt an emotion from those words and you were aware of that yes when did you first start to put the so much importance on this, this sort of level of, of, of awareness?
Speaker 2:I am well, I always been, I think, even if very shy girl, but I always been a lot in my heart, but also in my mind. That's true. Everyone is in their mind, but I think that I really started listening to my heart about 20 years ago, when I decided to start loving myself. I was living for everyone else. At that time, I had my husband and I was living for him in the way that I didn't even know what I liked to eat. It's not that he requested that, it's that me. I was 100% giver. I was there for everyone else. That's how I took.
Speaker 2:My father died when I was 14 and my mom was very sad and I was that good girl at home. I didn't want to stress her or make her sad in any way, so I always was for her and for my family, you know. So I went into a relationship that was the same and, as I was shy and insecure, it turned out to be stronger. You know, living for someone else. But 20 years ago, one day I woke up I said I cannot continue trying to change myself if I am the way I am, and even if I tried mentally to change myself, I wasn't able. No. So I said, no, I love myself. If someone has to love myself, that's going to be me.
Speaker 2:And so I decided to separate and move from New York to Barcelona. And when I came to Barcelona, spain, and I looked back and I said why am I here? It was two months ago. I was married, I had the house, I had so many things and another life. And here I am starting over. And that's when I saw, realized that I was listening to my heart and my heart had felt, had told me to be in Barcelona at that moment. And I saw the casualties that happened. I counted them, they were about 20. And I said, okay, okay, wow, how how powerful it is to listen to the heart.
Speaker 1:You know wisdom so for you then, just just touching this, I've got another question, but you you mentioned that spiked. My interest for you is listening to the heart, more intuition or emotion for you personally I think it's um feelings and uh, intuition, both.
Speaker 2:So when I'm sitting here with you, I'm in my heart and the feelings come through, and feelings I, my mind, translates into words. Okay, but as I am in present presence and I'm in the now, I and many times I don't know what next step to take. That's where the intuition comes in, and I listen to the intuition and I respond to it. So I action whatever it's telling me to action.
Speaker 1:Nice. Jeanette, you mentioned that you woke up. Was there something to initiate that waking up, or was it just a series of events or one specific thing that led you to it to wake up?
Speaker 2:I think it was um, because I, I was, um, I don't know I. I traveled to France with my family and my relationship was an emotional control relationship. And one morning I remember walking I don't know, we were going to buy some bread or something and I was with my family and I said, oh, I am, I am so free, I am so good, I can enjoy my family, how good. And then I said, oh, there must be something wrong in my relationship. And that's when I said, okay, okay, I have to change this.
Speaker 1:Again, I understand and I'm in my way and I am learning about self-acceptance, loving myself mainly from the perspective, so that I can model that for my children and that I don't condition them to my fear or things that have happened to me through my life. But in your case, when you are looking, in fact, I'm just going to drop into my body as I check for this question, because it's disappeared. Yeah, there we go. So what does actually loving yourself look like? How, for somebody that doesn't understand that? How? How might you explain that to them?
Speaker 2:I think it's about taking care of yourself and, instead of giving love away for others, to give it to yourself. No, this energy of love exists everywhere if we tap into it and it's really giving it to you and accept no, and become passionate for yourself. We judge a lot, we learn to judge, and we judge everyone and ourselves mostly, and it's really about listening and understanding where you are, where you are, and accept um and take care, take care of yourself of things you love to do, of taking time for yourself, read paint, learn to be with yourself, learn to be alone and when you are alone and you love yourself because you learned to be alone, to respect yourself, to value yourself, to love yourself, there's nothing better than being alone. Once in a while, it's very good, no, it does so well and it grows you and you're able to listen to intuition and so many things, many things.
Speaker 2:And I believe before my change was that, since I was living for everybody else, I wasn't listening to what I like to do, what I love, I wasn't giving space for myself, and the day I decided I would start loving myself and accepting myself as I am, I was giving space and not judging myself, learning not to to see observing ah, look, I like this. Ah, nice, let's. Ah, I like this food and it's okay, or um, I don't have to run to the gym every morning.
Speaker 1:Five in the morning, it's okay not to go yeah, yeah, there's a lot of interesting things there and I think for me on my journey, my first clue was the language that I use with myself. For me it was very critical in a voice, so it was being aware of that, like you said, not necessarily trying to force it to change, but be aware of it and just question it, Because a lot of the times I was accepting what it said, even if it wasn't true like that you're rubbish or that's no good, that's hopeless.
Speaker 1:You're hopeless, making a lot of assumptions and I think you said something really important there that that I constantly negotiate with my partner around and that is being busy and just trying to create space for us as individuals, but then in our relationships and at work and not being busy, because if we are busy, then those whispers are unheard.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I always say and I learned something about relationships when I started over, about relationships, when I started over, I said every relationship has to have three entities. Let's say If it doesn't have them, there's no relationship. And that happens to close relationships, friends, anyone. There's always three. So it's you the space for yourself and respect no, and value yourself, the other person. The same space, and then what you create together, what we co-create together, which is in the case of a loving relationship, so it's the relationship itself. The relationship is the baby, let's say, and everyone has to take care in the same way for this relationship.
Speaker 2:If the three aren't there, there's no relationship. There's something. In my case, there was him and the relationship. So I wasn't there and I was always there for both of them the relationship and him. And the day I decided to change my life and change starts always from from within, from yourself so it's I, I, I left, so there was no relationship anymore. There was him, but there was no relationship anymore. So I said, well, next time, and in any relationship, there's always three.
Speaker 1:That's why I talk about co-creation always, because there's always three something else you mentioned is that internal factor as well, and we learn to generate those, those, those states or emotions for ourself, be that acceptance or joy or love. Then, yeah, I'll own this. I find myself less dependent on external factors to try and fill that bucket because I can generate it for myself.
Speaker 2:I was very codependent for everyone, and then for this relationship, and then you learn not to be codependent anymore. You're totally fine to be with yourself. Actually, it turns out around and you love to be with yourself, alone, because loneliness or alone is not loneliness, no, it's not the same.
Speaker 1:Alone is to really enjoy the moment and be with with yourself, and you don't feel lonely, not at all did you have any help and support in learning to tap into your intuition, to to live from the heart, to be more connected to yourself and and build a relationship with yourself?
Speaker 2:Jeanette, I think, after I I divorced, I had a lady. I saw her once in a while and she, I think she was a psychoanalyst and and she, I think she showed me how to organize my, my mind. And because I had a lot, since I was codependent, I had a lot of guilt now because I had left behind, you know. But it's not that, um, the good thing about the heart and intuition the heart always told me that was the best for him and for myself. So I was so sad and I was so, so deep in the dark. But I was listening to my heart and my heart was saying you know, this inner voice was saying this is the best for you and for him. And I knew, I knew, because you know that inner voice of saying this is the best for you and for him. And I knew, I knew, because you know, that that was true. So I blindly followed my intuition. And that's when I came to Barcelona.
Speaker 2:But it was this, this, um, knowing that I followed now, this inner wisdom, um, but I had a lot of guilt. I had a lot of guilt. This codependency had to build, had to, I had to build it down. No, so I had this help, but it was. This help was more was structured in my mind and knowing that that it was okay, that I did the best not in my mind, because the knowing was there and then going to the heart. I think it's more when I started my social enterprise in 2012 that I started really listening and observing myself in all the journey. And then COVID came and I had a community and, yes, I started having co-creating their conversations, sitting, listening, learning to be in the heart.
Speaker 1:I called it active meditation because, at the end, you can be anywhere and at any time in your heart and listen yeah, I love that and it reminds me of the importance that I that when I, when this was very new to me, I assumed that being very present was was for hippies mainly because, I didn't understand it and I can understand now, and that is because there were some truths that I needed to deal with, some things that I needed to deal with, so it was easier to push it away through ignorance.
Speaker 1:Um, but that that maybe being connected to ourselves or to the heart, and that love isn't always easy or soft or fragile in the sense of having to leave a partner, a relationship, isn't an easy thing to do, um, and there's other things that that we get to do. But I think that's such an important point. It's not necessarily the easy or weak or floppy way of of going through life. It can be really challenging to stand in your own um truth or light and and act from a place of love. Sometimes it's the small things and sometimes it's massive, but I think it's a really important point that you've highlighted there.
Speaker 2:That, yeah, yes and um. The other thing I learned is that loving yourself is not the same of that value on yourself okay, I explained that.
Speaker 2:I like that yeah, because at that time, no, I decided to love myself because I was constantly criticized by by him and by myself, no, and so to change that part, but I didn't value myself. It took me a long time to really value myself. I had, and that's when I learned it through my social enterprise, because I was again building something that for me, the most important thing behind any organizations are the people, and when I went to networking events and everything they asked about the project and the person behind. And also the project was constantly changing because I was changing. So when you create from what you love, it constantly changes because it evolves as you evolve. And so I found people like me and that's why I then created the network and the community.
Speaker 2:But in the meantime I was told I had to have a website. And I always say I learned the hard way through the websites because I lost all well, my much, much of my savings creating websites. Really, it's not that a little savings, a lot of savings from UNICEF, united Nations because I didn't trust myself, I didn't value myself. So I listened to someone else and I did it, not once, I did it not twice, I did it about three or four times, and every time the website had to be changed. So every time I partnered with someone else that also was asking me for money, and so I lost the savings.
Speaker 2:Until one day I said why is this happening to me? Looking back and saying, okay, why are you spending so much on this and the white spots are changing you, why are you changing all those things? And I said, okay, I don't value myself. Well, it's not that I said it like that. I think that I've been looking back and writing and that's when I realized, wow, look at this, looking back and writing, and that's when I realized, wow, look at this. The money goes. The website amount is every time less, and now you're doing it yourself. But why did you start like? You started with such a high? How did you pay so much for a website that you saw your colleagues working on it and studying and you were paying for them to study. So I was saying, well, yes, I didn't value myself. I was just listening to others thinking I wasn't good enough to create any website and being taken advantage, and that's it. So I learned value myself was was there.
Speaker 1:Can you reflect now that there was? There was little messages to yourself about moving away or doing it yourself or finishing that relationship with the website creator earlier that you ignored then yes, always.
Speaker 2:There's always the little voice, the inner voice saying something and you, you just don't listen to it because you're not worthy enough, even if you said I'm going to love myself and I'm I'm loving my 12 yes sure, I am uh-huh, but the value value yourself where. Where are you with that? No, where's your worthiness?
Speaker 1:so the mind still was uh playing how can we help people understand, then, or or create that space or awareness to to be able to listen to those little voices, because sometimes they can be very helpful and sometimes very destructive. So how, how can we learn to distinguish between the two of the intuition saying maybe you should move on in terms of this website because it's costing you a lot of money, or you can't do this, you have to get somebody else to do it?
Speaker 2:I think one thing is really it takes time. No, I would say everything is exploration, experiencing and practicing. But you know the difference of when the mind is talking and the heart is talking. You know which one is which, especially also in the way the inner voice, the inner voice of the mind, is in reality, are thoughts, and thoughts you can always control. You can always control the inner voice of the heart comes. It's more energy, it comes through feelings. It's energetic, it's a knowing. So if you're quiet and you tune into it, you know that when the mind is talking, those are thoughts and when the heart is talking, that's a knowing. And I think the journey can be empowered through really meditation.
Speaker 2:The way it depends on how you meditate, but it's really being quiet, being quiet, even if you're gardening, you're meditating. If you're gardening, you're with yourself, you are concentrating on something, but you you are. You can listen to your thoughts and your heart. Anything. If you're painting, it's the same thing. You can listen to yourself, become aware of what you're thinking and what you're feeling and what the heart tells you at the end, this voice, you know that is different than the thoughts. And if you're meditating, the more, because if you're meditating and you reach the point where you really are calm. The thoughts are always there and you identify them and you say, okay, those are thoughts and you observe them. The say okay, those are thoughts and you observe them. The thing is observing. You observe those thoughts and you say, okay, I can move it to the right, to the left out, and then you stay quiet. But thoughts will always come. But then it's when you differentiate really what thoughts are and what something else is. No, yeah.
Speaker 2:When you're quiet.
Speaker 1:The practice thing I think is really important as well. I don't think we can expect to be suddenly connected to ourselves if we've spent 40 plus years of not and we've got the other people's voices in our heads and we're constantly busy and stressed and yes and entertained or engaged.
Speaker 1:Um, and I was told, I was told by a woman recently incredible, uh, and I want to find out more about this and I've asked her. She's not got back to me yet as at the time of this recording she said that spirituality, or connection to self, begins at 40.
Speaker 1:She told me you're only five, be patient and meditation and we're not recording video, but in your background there's a picture of a sticker on the wall with balloons, and there's maybe I don't know, eight balloons pulling a girl up, and that, for me, it just struck me that's, that's what meditation is. Those, those balloons are thoughts, that we have a lot of them a day, and in this picture, the girl's being pulled up by the balloons and that's like, for me, that would be like trying to follow the thoughts, because we have so many a day and they're not necessarily all. They might not even be ours and we can choose to let them go. It's not that they're there or not there, they'll always be there.
Speaker 2:But do we?
Speaker 1:follow them? Do we get pulled away by them, or can we practice letting go?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and sometimes. I think I got aware of that about one month ago when someone in the podcast asked me something but thoughts are always there, but you just don't listen to them. When you're in your heart, thoughts are there, but you don't listen to them. They're always going to be there.
Speaker 1:It's just the attention you give to them, the attention you give to your mind yeah, jeanette, so that in, in your, in your professional life, how has this level of connection to yourself helped um lead people and and manage projects? What, what were some of the things that you've seen, the differences from this way of living and being?
Speaker 2:I loved it because I really saw it. I started applying about seven years ago, seven and a half years ago at work and also with my team. And if you are the change you want to see, if you are in your heart, you really positively impact people around you because you will listen to them. When you're in your heart, the mind doesn't play with you. Because you will listen to them. When you're in your heart, the mind doesn't play with you.
Speaker 2:So you listen to people from the heart. You just sit there and listen and speak to them and you recognize them as who they are. You recognize their skills, you recognize their power, their potential. You empower them because you see something different in them and you recognize it and in my case, I just my work transformed into empowering them and for them to be free to be who they are and create what they love. So really also at work, because at the end, who you are, the person you are, you are everywhere and if you can be free to be that at work, you are motivated, you are valued and you can be free to be that at work, you are motivated, you are valued and you can grow there through your essence. So it has helped me at work a lot, because it's a kind of leadership that sees the leader in everyone else and sees their potential and empowers them, inspires them and you are the example you want to see. So you don't talk from an empty mouth, with a mind, but with what you create.
Speaker 1:It strikes me, especially coming from the military, where it wasn't quite like that um at times, but it seems like a slower way of leading, both in the positive and the negative sense. Um, but I I would assume that it's a lot more profound and long-lasting.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's planting a seed in every person. So, also, when you leave and you're not there anymore, they still have the seed and they still have those recognition in themselves that they really apply with others, have those recognition in themselves that they really apply with others. So, yes, and it's very powerful. Plus, because I also at work. It took me time there. I also continued learning to value myself and one day I said, okay, now I am almost there, I never will be there, but it's really when you're in integrity, when you love value and respect yourself, you do that for everyone else automatically, and that's leadership, because you love value and respect everyone that is sitting in front of you, where they're standing, with their experience, with their emotions, with everything. You just learn to praise them and you see their essence and respect their timings in everything. And everyone is different and the beauty of that is everyone is different, everyone is unique and it's beautiful to be able to plant a seed in them and to see them flourish, blooming in their own way with their own flower.
Speaker 1:Yes, I would assume also that this really attracts certain people into your presence and that step into this, but I can also anticipate that it really drives some people away if they don't understand or or or uncomfortable by it. How do you continue to support people that are challenging at work that might be very yeah, they really don't get this or or look for answers rather than space or need that sort of rigidity, or yeah, how can you still show up for for them, even when they're rejecting that sort of leadership?
Speaker 2:yeah, and I have an example from this weekend, from this last week, that we had um, an event at work and I I created a workshop about co-creation and I designated one of the team his way more mind, okay. And at the start of the workshop I said, okay, you're going to be the director. And he was saying can I be the director? I need more. I'm very practical, I need more. I'm very practical, I need more steps, I need this and this, don't worry, don't worry, it will come. No, no, I need this, okay. And at the end of the workshop he was like I'm the director, guys, don't do this. So he really took it in. So there's always going to be some rejection, because to be to grow, you need to step out of the comfort zone. But I know, in this case, I knew he has the potential, but his mind was still cracking, but he was held, was still cracking, but he, he was held. No, and as he was held and and also by all, by everyone else, he slowly then embodied that role. But at the beginning he was, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And at the end, he, he just was it and he, we finished the workshop and he continued me because I am the director and so he was, you know.
Speaker 2:But it's really. It's really about you know how much. If you recognize someone, you know how much you can push them, how much, because you cannot push someone that is not ready. But if you see and feel that this person is in a comfort zone that just needs a little bit, then just give him a little bit, because then he just gets out of the comfort zone and he will take it. But if I give him too much to jump, he would fall.
Speaker 2:So it really depends on each person and, in addition, at work I'm in IT In the other company there were different cultures and being like I am at an event, yeah, sometimes it strikes and someone will push back, but it's okay, no, no, it's okay. You get the pushback, but you also know that you weren't going to that person. In the same way, you're going to someone else to say hello but, since the person is already afraid, pushes you back before you are able to say anything. But it's normal. He's afraid because they're not used to that, so so you say no, no, it's okay yeah, I get that and that's exactly.
Speaker 1:I could sense that within myself when I first met you as well. But both that again, you asked me before we come in how is it? How am I? And I give the wave. It's constantly the ups and downs, it's all of it. It's not. Those thoughts or experiences aren't there. Do I buy into it or not?
Speaker 1:and for my own understanding, then I guess, in terms of this guy, what you had done is given him enough of a. You knew, you knew him well enough, and my sense is that there, that you would have been there to support him if he had fallen, yeah, and that if you had, it doesn't mean anything about you or him, it's just one of those things and there's another time. So you're standing in your own yeah and your own authenticity there, because it's, it's just a thing. It's not.
Speaker 2:It's not the end of the world, it's no, no, and if he he wouldn't have been ready, it's no problem. There's someone else to to take the role. But it's just knowing until it's just observing and seeing the person at the beginning really, um, not taking it, but but you know if you have to change the role or not, or if he's really able to take it. And slowly he was changing attitude and already organizing people. So even if at the beginning, also still organizing, he was saying I cannot, I need a practice, I need steps, I need a breath, I need steps. But it's really, yeah, it was very beautiful to see that the transformation.
Speaker 1:I bet it was Very rewarding, I guess, even though you can experience that, but it doesn't mean anything about you. Yeah, it's for him, it's his victory, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:How important is it then to find if this is something that's interesting for for people, because I guess we can't just suddenly flick a switch and start talking, living and acting like this in, in, and I'm, as I alluded to earlier, I I assume it's a slightly slower but more profound way of leading the importance of a lot of being aligned to a company and their vision and values before you start working for them or leading like this, or is that not the case?
Speaker 2:Well, in the company seven and a half years ago, no, they were not ready and for me they contracted someone to lead and to be project manager in their way, in IT way, and I always told them I'm not like that. I do certain things, and they didn't understand it because they never saw it. But they sent me to do certain things roles and I did them, and I also did it my way, and after one year, I remember one of the partners said Jeanette, thank you, thank you for doing what you do, because we didn't know that exists and if you wouldn't have continued, we would not have seen how effective it is and how it changes a team. So it was very nice to hear that. And then the second year, he says when I'm older, I want to be like you. I say why? Because when we have a requirement and we say you are going to do that and you don't want to do it and you don't like it, you identify someone in your team that loves to do that and you grow them through that and the team grows even stronger because there's a person that really loves to do that and is doing it very well. But you identified them and you didn't do the work, but, yes, it's, it's, but it takes. That's why it's. It's really about being the example you want to see.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so even if I was given other roles, I was doing them, but I still was being who I am, not being the example of what I wanted to see, because what I've seen is that you can explain it so many times, but if people don't experience it, they don't see it, and it's normal. I wouldn't have seen it years ago. Also, I say the same of the heart. If you don't experience it, you don't know it. You cannot know it. When you're in your mind, it's very difficult to understand what I'm talking about. Being the heart, no. But as soon as you have a little glimpse of it, you understand what it is, and that's why those conversations are always so important. When you are in your heart, you somehow are planting a seed into someone else that one day will flourish, will bloom, and that's the beauty. And then the trusting and knowing that one day it will flourish. You don't have to see it now.
Speaker 1:I love that, jeanette. Is there anything you would like to mention or talk about that I've not asked or that we've not talked about yet?
Speaker 2:before we start to wind this conversation down, Well, one thing I talk a lot about is co-creation, and co-creation has to do with with the heart now, and you and I are co-creating here your podcast. Um, because I'm being here with you now and you are here with me now and together we are having these conversations. You're interviewing me and we're co-creating this podcast. So co-creation comes from really being in the present, listening to each other and sharing, with the vision of co-creating this podcast, the details we don't know of co-creating this podcast, the details we don't know.
Speaker 2:And I differentiated a lot with collaboration, because collaboration comes from the doing. It's with a goal and when you set a goal you're limiting the journey. So with co-creation, you have a vision and the journey comes. Let's say, the how comes through the walking. In the collaboration, the how is already set and it's limiting because with your mind you're setting something that maybe could have been much better. So co-creation for me is very important and in what I do at work IT team leading, at home, everywhere I co-create and I co-create from the heart with whoever I encounter, because then it's what I said before I'm planting the seed of co-creation and for me, the vision I have of the world is a world of co-creation. A world where everyone gives and receives in harmony, where everyone is able to be themselves unique and where everyone is learning from others and from themselves. That's co-creation, yes.
Speaker 1:Love it, love it. Quite a journey.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Jeanette, where might people find you or reach out to you if they're interested in speaking with you about co-creation or any of the things that we've talked about today?
Speaker 2:Yes, thank you um. I have my website. It's janetmeyercom sog j e a n n e t t e m I m e I e rcom, and there you can find all information, or even via LinkedIn, you can direct message me.
Speaker 1:Brilliant Thank you. Well, jeanette, thank you for taking this time to have this conversation today. Thanks for doing what you do and being who you are, and for your encouragement and the conversations that we've had today, and also offline and in person as well. It means a lot, so yeah. Thank you very much for being here today.
Speaker 2:Thank you, aaron. It's an honor really. You know that I'm so happy. You are my neighbor. You live around here Around the corner. I can see you in person once in a while and I appreciate you a lot and I'm very lucky to have you around. Thank you so much.