Episode 15 of The B&B Corner delves into the heart of modern parenting, with Stephanie and Will engaging in a deep, unfiltered conversation about the evolving roles of mothers and fathers. They also discuss the societal pressures on modern families, and the balance between career aspirations and parenting responsibilities. Join them to explore the complexities of parenthood in today's world, where expectations are high, and the struggle to find harmony is real.
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Episode 15 of The B&B Corner delves into the heart of modern parenting, with Stephanie and Will engaging in a deep, unfiltered conversation about the evolving roles of mothers and fathers. They also discuss the societal pressures on modern families, and the balance between career aspirations and parenting responsibilities. Join them to explore the complexities of parenthood in today's world, where expectations are high, and the struggle to find harmony is real.
Exclusive offer
Head to askle.co now and use the code at the end of the episode to access a free consult & your first month's product free!
Follow us
B&B Corner Instagram
Asklé Instagram
Stephanie Instagram
Will Instagram
Get in touch
info@askle.co
Hey listeners. Before we jump into today's episode of the b&b corner, a quick shout out to our startup ask Lee. If you're a mom looking for personalized nutrition that fits into your busy life, visit escalade.co today, and stay tuned until the end for an exclusive offer just for our listeners. PMID statistics have increased to one in three, because there's far more expectations and women to do more than they ever have done. We want to be able to do more like some women don't want to just be at home because they want their cup filled in other ways also, but then if they do that they don't know how to do that because the support systems aren't in place to be able to do that. Good morning. Good morning.
Will Slater:Welcome to the b&b corner.
Stephanie Slater:Three sleeps till Christmas awake.
Will Slater:Oops.
Stephanie Slater:Be precise versus when we're
Will Slater:recording. This is coming out on Boxing Day. So happy Boxing Day. I hope you had a beautiful customers enjoy your day the cricket was going mayhem this year.
Stephanie Slater:You are going to start going on Boxing Day. Why aren't you going on box? Oh, because I haven't Christmas on Boxing Day. Anyway, welcome. Yes.
Will Slater:Merry Christmas for yesterday. Yeah, I
Stephanie Slater:hope you had a beautiful day and it wasn't too chaotic and you able to be present. I feel like I have something I need to say. Could go anyway, I'm a little bit apprehensive. I feel like I owe an apology to you. While we always listen back to our podcasts a because we'll have to edit, edit it and be then I just listened to the edit and see that we're happy with it. Whatever. I'm the boss, you know, give the final tick of approval. And I didn't hear last week's episode till it was public. And we was like, oh, yeah, you should listen to the episode. And I'm like, Oh, yeah. And I was quite antsy. I was quite defensive. And I think you could just tell in my tone that I was pretty emotional. A few reflections I've had on that is one first time hearing of this is not I told I spoke to you about it and said, I was like, well, sorry about that. But what I this is an interesting thing with a podcast, because it's so funny. I feel like sometimes if you fight with someone, or you have conversations or debates or whatever you think, oh gosh, if you could just hear yourself, if you could just see yourself. And now you can we literally see and hear ourselves. And for me I had this moment of oh, okay, yeah, I see what you mean, when you say sometimes that I'm a bit. And that doesn't mean anything to you if you're listening, but you know, like a bit down your throat or a bit cut you off for a bit just Hansi you know. And I was I really heard it. It was absolutely layered with emotion because I was not in the best place. As I said it. I was I use the analogy of the skating on ice and the tumultuous water underneath. So I am very cognizant to the fact that I was in an emotional bubble. That burst that burst later that day or the Monday or whatever day it burst, it burst. But it was, yeah, it was just an interesting reflection for me because I was able to see how I can get with you. When I'm feeling triggered or whatever I'm feeling not heard or I'm feeling you know, whatever it might be. I can see when you say to me, okay, I'm just asking questions. I'm just, I'm just trying to talk to you. I'll bet you do sometimes push the buttons, like you said, but let's just put that aside because here's my learnings. So that was the first very clear apparent thing to me that I was like, wow, Steph, are you okay? Like are you coping? And then how I react to you in those moments. So that was interesting for and then be I was I was feeling a little bit. Not ashamed, not ashamed, but very vulnerable. When that was out to the public. I was like, or am I comfortable with people hearing and seeing me that way, in my most in my most vulnerable state where I feel like I'm struggling and trying to keep my head above water like, Am I comfortable with being this exposed to people that know me? And also people that don't know me? Like, how do I feel about that? And we're gonna chat about that. But I just want to say sorry, because I finally understand what you mean, when you say that I'm at you when I don't realize that I met you, because I was totally at you. And I was totally cutting you off. And I was very. But as we said, my emotional bubble did burst. So it was probably just a matter of time. Like this.
Will Slater:There's a first for every cover. Thank you. I meant the first time that you've ever been at me. Oh. Like happened once or twice before? But thank you for the apology. I do appreciate it. And I think well, I did the same thing. A few weeks ago. There was a an episode that we did where I was not overly proud of the way that I communicated. It goes to this elfish husband's episode, some feedback. But I think it's sort of the the outcome of what we're doing here. We're going to say things that maybe later, we might regret or think, Oh, my goodness, I like that. I think everyone does that. Everyone says things away that aren't necessarily mean, it just so happens that we're recording. And we're often recording conversations that are challenging conversations that we genuinely are in the midst of dealing with, if we don't prepare for this podcast, we don't have talking points. There's no notes we don't have, you know, we don't think about it during the weekend. You know, let's talk about this. And let's talk about it in this way.
Stephanie Slater:We try to be very organic, in what we talk about and what is relevant to us here. And now. So we don't script it. We will come up with like an idea or theme like, hey, interesting,
Will Slater:pretends to be a topic that we're dealing with. Yes, that's what I meant. Yeah. Like a topic that we're genuinely dealing with that week, something that's going on for us good, bad or otherwise, something in our relationship that we're trying to work our way through. So why did we decide to put that out? Publicly again, not sure. But um, we're hopeful that through us having these discussions publicly that it might help other people who are trying to have these conversations privately and give them some tools or,
Stephanie Slater:or maybe it's not even to say it seems to avoid solidarity. Well,
Will Slater:I did read you this morning, a speech that Charlie Munger gave in, I think it was 1968. At Harvard, Charlie Munger is someone who I look up to he actually just passed away last week at 99. But for anyone who doesn't know Charlie Munger was the right hand man of Warren Buffett, together, they built Berkshire Hathaway, which was is the largest investment fund in the world, they do about $140 billion in cash every year, faces massive. Anyway, he talks a lot about inversion. So rather than trying to figure out what you want, figure out what the opposite of that would look like, and then try and avoid it. So I think it's a, it's relevant to what we're talking about now. But I think, for other people, it's really relevant, because it's often that question of, you know, what do you want out of your life? What do you want to do in your life? What's your purpose? You know, what's your vision for yourself? What? If people don't know where to go in their career? Or what to do? It's like, you know, what, what do you want? And that's a very hard question for a lot of people to answer because most people don't know what they want. So to invert that and say, Well, what don't you want? That's much easier. People usually have a good answer for that. Yeah, definitely. So his speech was around to lead a miserable life. These are the things that you must do to lead a miserable life. But I think it's relevant in the context of what we're doing. Because, well, I was kind of joking, maybe you avoid. Maybe if you want to have a good relationship, you can avoid some of the things that we talked about publicly. And maybe that's what you were you get evaluated in this podcast. I was just reflecting on it last night, thinking about, I'm trying to get better at being able to support our kids, because they're challenging at the moment to think, Okay, well, what don't I want? What is what is a horrible father look like? Well, I take my anger out on them. I scream at them. I'm impatient with them. All the things that I'm trying to avoid. I don't yet know what it looks like to be a great father. But I certainly know what being a bad father looks like. So if I can identify those things and avoid them. Hopefully, that puts me on a path to being better. As your wisdom for today. Do. You hate my stories?
Stephanie Slater:I do. I don't hate your stories. I'm, I'm hearing you. And I agree. I think it's a really valid way of looking. I think it's a lot easier to say, as you said, it's a lot easier to say what you don't want because you'd like oh, I don't want to work nine to five, I don't want to work for the man. I don't want to be a bad dad. I don't want I don't want I'm just trying to work out how that relates to being vulnerable on the podcast and sharing thing. That was related to
Will Slater:us putting things out there publicly. Yeah. So people might want to rather than do what we do, people might want to avoid what we do. Right? That might be the
Stephanie Slater:best don't go and be podcasters or don't
Will Slater:have the process. Maybe? Well, no,
Stephanie Slater:I think it's very good. Very good. Miles pit No, that was a do from last week. Well, this isn't. Charlie
Will Slater:Munger, Charlie Munger tell you what you might benefit from some improv classes. Go somewhere. This look like because
Stephanie Slater:I'm on the other path. I was at the ISO, because I want to get back together. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm not part of the weaving of your story, because I don't get how it connects. Anyway, I would like to come back to this idea of exposing yourself because I think you said it earlier that the conversations that we're having, I would argue, well, actually, no. I was gonna say most people would have probably most don't. They don't know how to have those conversations. They're feeling it on their own. They don't
Will Slater:know how to go. We don't know. We just fumble our way through as well. Yeah,
Stephanie Slater:but they don't know how to approach that maybe with their partner so they sit in their own little bubble on their own and just fester. on these negative thoughts, I think you and I are pretty good at confronting those conversations and having very difficult conversations, they don't always go overly well. And then we've taken it another layer, and we've got, hey, let's share that with everyone because we feel like people can, hopefully benefit. And I would argue that there are people who benefit because I get many a message saying, Thank you, or, you know, sharing, sharing that made me feel less lonely, or Wow, that's conversation I want to have with my partner or the way you did that, or even the fact that you lost your shit makes me feel like I'm not crazy and losing my mind, and all that kind of thing. So I do believe in the power of what we're doing. I just think that my fear of sharing that side of me, is my fear of being judged. And I have to overcome that because the greater good, like is why I'm doing it. So. And I think it really resonates. I think it will resonate with probably mums and dads, but definitely mums. In that we want to show this highlights reel, like you think of even just social media, you know, and like Selena Gomez actually put up. It was a I don't know if it was Vanity Fair, but it was an interview she did. And it was all around trying to impact social media usage and put your phone down, especially with the younger generation. And she was saying the highlight reel, you know, like you see 10 seconds of someone's life. And that is not what is going on. And that is not how beautiful they always look or happy they always are or how fit they always or whatever it might be. And I think that we're constantly bombarded with that sort of, well,
Will Slater:maybe your stories and my stories have more in common than you think. Your stories and my stories. Oh, Charlie Munger and Selena Gomez have two peas in a pod. I'm sure there's one thing to guarantee a miserable life is envy. And I think what you're talking about is envy. Because we look at people's envy, jealousy, whatever I think they are definitely you want to put on I think they are different. They're related. Look, the idea is still the same, looking at other people's lives and wishing that it was yours.
Stephanie Slater:Yeah, can I just might because I think it's a really interesting point. Because my when I was Google, I was looking this up. This is ages ago, we were I think we were talking about so anyway, the difference between jealousy and envy is that jealousy is almost like the bad version and visa good version. Jealousy is the I want what you have, therefore you can't have it because I'm upset that you haven't, I'm so jealous that you haven't want to take it away from me. Envy is, wow, that is so incredible. You have that you work so hard for I would love to be able to do what you're doing, I'm going to work really hard to I want to achieve what you're achieving. It's like this positive, motivational, whereas jealousy is like, I want to take it away from me. So one is a scarcity mindset. If you have it, that means I can't have it. And one is an abundance mindset, you have it. And I would love to have a to how can I do what you're doing in order to achieve that same thing. But back to the original point of the idea of comparing yourself. So I just think that by doing this podcast, and by sharing these really vulnerable raw states of us that sometimes come across as Whoa, or really you can, you can easily judge from the outside, you could look at that and go, she's gonna be crazy. Oh, they look like they're on Tinder hooks or whatever it might be whatever judgment, you want to lay on our conversations, how we communicate with each other, whatever it might be, I challenge you to put yourself out on a podcast that you're releasing to the world and see if you don't have moments of missteps, or just or just if you're choosing to truly be your most candid version of yourself for authenticity purposes, because that's what we came here to do. We came on here to show parents, you know, women or whoever that, you know, it's not always easy doing things that are hard or hard. Like they come with challenges, they will come with arguments and fights and real low moments and in real euphoric moments, like that is part of what we're doing. And that's a conscious choice that we made. And so I guess what am I saying? I am hoping that people is I'm hoping that people can look at this through a lens of us just sharing what we believe to be powerful conversations that aren't always comfortable. Like, I think that that's really important to be okay with discomfort to not judge us. And hopefully you're not like I haven't had anyone tell me they're judging me. But I listened to and I was like, oh, so I'm sure there's a bit of that my mom called me was like, hey, just shake her. Okay, after the podcast. I'm like, yeah, just been bawling my eyes out today, but I'm good. So yeah, I think that and then also, just bear with us and be honest, if you're here, you're here because you're on this journey with us of, of our real true selves and journey. And I think that that's really important coming into parenthood, because we're very quick to say I'm fine. I'm totally fine. Yeah, no, babies girl. Yeah, sleeping. Not everyone really should it's fine. And behind closed doors, you're not fine. And I think that that's what I was doing for a lot of my postpartum you know, yeah, I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine.
Will Slater:What Did that change? No. Why did it change? Maybe?
Stephanie Slater:I think it was that I realized I wasn't coping and I needed people around me. It's so funny. I think the mothers group is set can be such a beautiful thing, but also such a challenging concept. And it depends on the mothers group that you have and what the I had some beautiful people in my mother's group. But there were definitely moments of comparing and I remember one mom had baby would sleep through the night it was so and breastfeeding was so easy for her and I was really struggling with breastfeeding and, and you just kind of can't help but compare yourself. But then when you're there, you're not necessarily as honest as you want to be. Like you probably most of the time want to sit and cry. There's this beautiful writer, author, slash kind of poet her name's Jessica, I can never say her name. It's like early chills, something like that. She always I've shared a few polls with you before, but she wrote this beautiful and our phones are being used for recordings. I can't jump on a read it to them. I would love to how could I do that?
Will Slater:Can Read up on the laptop? Oh,
Stephanie Slater:okay. And she says it's about when your friend calls you to check in and say hello, and see how you are. Can I get it? Can you pause the recording? Okay, after a little bit of searching, searching, I found the poem, which I think is just beautiful. And I think it really encapsulates what we're talking about when a mum feels afraid to share her truth of what is actually going on. So this author Jessica orig, however you say her name. So this is what it says. My friend messaged me after I had a baby. How are you her message read? I responded. It's harder than I thought. Some moments I'm swept up in the beauty of motherhood. Others I'm dragging myself in a coffee stained dressing gown with unwashed hair. I know people say to take some time out for me. But in this season of being so needed, I don't know how I'm more tired than I ever imagined. Though I could trace their tiny features for hours. I could watch the way a sneeze crinkles their eyes and takes them by surprise. But I also feel a little lost at times, yet they are a seed in my bones and I have never been more found. Some days I sit in shadows and others the light fills me up inside. And together we grow and grow. My body aches from birth for the girl I once was for sleep for their scent. The shower feels like a break, though I always feel hurried. Makes no sense does it? Some days I feel as if I'm not achieving much. And yet I am rushed off my feet. years can pass through these four walls in mere minutes. My mind is all over the place. I want to press pause. And yet I am already in awe of who they're becoming. We're still figuring this whole thing out together. And yet it's like I've known them forever. I feel a new type of wholeness of being complete. But some days I just feel empty. Does this make any sense? I'd love some time alone, but I'm entangled in them. And yet, that's how I want it. My heart would be fumbling around in the dark without them. That's another thing I wanted to tell you. I've never thought with my heart so much. I've never seen so much with it either. I'm not ready to have visitors just yet. But I miss you. I really do. Thanks for checking in. But I didn't. Instead I told her we were great. I baby was simply a dream and that we couldn't wait to see her. Then I hit send. I get shivers. Every time I read that I get shipped. She's a beautiful, beautiful writer.
Will Slater:She's a beautiful writer. Why do you get shivers?
Stephanie Slater:I just think that that is just so accurate. And exactly what the whole point of what I'm saying is that we're so scared to share the vulnerable side to us. We're scared to say, I'm not coping we're scared to say even that I don't want visitors yet. Especially if you have a newborn or even just a day where maybe you'd plan to catch up and now you're like I'm not in the headspace. I'm exhausted I'm this I'm that. We make up excuses. We use our kids as excuses. We're too scared to be vulnerable. I think if we again, allow space for everyone, not just moms, dads, too, like that's exactly what we're talking about. To say, Hey, this is hard. Hey, I'm not coping. Hey, you know, things feel a mess right now. And actually what I need is space. But when I'm ready to reach out, can I reach out to you? I think that is so much more powerful and forges such a stronger relationship than everything being based on a pretense of like, Hey, I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine. And that's not to say like, sometimes I have moments where I just say, Yeah, I'm fine. And it's because I just can't I don't want to talk about it. I don't feel like you know, in that moment, I don't feel like it's going to serve me. But yeah. What do you think?
Will Slater:Yeah, I agree with you. I think it's I think it's difficult because in most of society, I think most people most of the time have a lot of shit going on. Yeah, but most people's lives really hard. And the dealing I mean life is just
Stephanie Slater:challenging. Yeah, yeah, I
Will Slater:was gonna say torturous. But life is hard. Life is really hard. You You, bad shit happens to good people all of the time, all of the time. Charlie Munger, who I mentioned earlier, his son died when he was nine years old from leukemia. And apparently, he walked around the streets, I lived in Los Angeles and was just literally walk around the streets bawling his eyes out. This was in like the 40s or 50s. You know, people deal with really hard things all the time. Most everyone has walking around the street has a story, if you actually stopped and said to them, you know, what's something really challenging that you're dealing with at the moment, everyone would have a story. So I think it's hard when you know, the way that we interact with people is, Hey, how are you going? Yeah, we don't really mean it. Yeah. Okay. We don't mean it at all. If that person actually stopped and said how they will go. That's, that's inappropriate. Don't give me your shit, man. I gotta get enough of my shit going. I don't need your problems. laid me with your problems? Because if every time you said hey, how are you going? People genuinely told you how they'll go? If you'd stop asking. You just would stop doing it. It's a totally inappropriate thing to actually answer, honestly. So I think like, it's, it's I'm not taking away from the fact that going through that and being a mum and having all this going on, but I can understand why people don't share it. It's unacceptable societally to share it. It's yeah. Do we want that? Do we want people to honestly share every problem that they've got going on? I think it's a really fine line. I think this is a different situation. Like I think being a mum and going through this phase is a different situation, because it is immensely hard. But I, I understand why it doesn't happen. Because
Stephanie Slater:we're not talking about getting your morning coffee and your barista saying, hey, well, how's your how's your morning going? You going? Well, my son did this. And then this happened in my husband, my wife, and I don't like we're talking about knowing who your people are
Will Slater:gonna make people genuinely check in.
Stephanie Slater:That's, that's what I'm trying to say. I'm saying that knowing who your people are, and, and, and being that person that checks in on the other, like, like, I would say that my group of girlfriends, like, we know that if we need to, we can genuinely ask for help, or and I didn't fit a point. Like there was a period of time. After Arabel his birth weight. I didn't know how to talk to anyone, because I didn't know how to express myself. And I didn't even understand myself what was going on. And yeah, that was that was really difficult during that time. And they all have said to me post, like, I wish you know, I wish you spoke to us. We asked you how you work, but I think in it did feel a bit like how are you going? And it's like, yeah, good. It wasn't a true. And maybe I'm sure it was on their end. But I guess for me, it felt like an inappropriate time to share. Because I didn't know a because God forbid I take up space. I never wanted a conversation to be about me. I'm happy for it to be about me if we're just being jovial, a bit silly. And Lola. But seriously getting to the core, it was like I don't want us to waste that was the first word that just came to my head, then, you know, 20 minutes talking about my stuff, which probably lends itself to the idea of just women want being okay with taking up space, whether it be with their partners, whether it be with their family, whether it be their friends, like it's okay to take up space, and it's okay for it to be about you and only you and it's okay to not be coping. And last week's podcast, you know, you saw heard me kind of not coping. I mean, I talked about my lessons and said, and then you wonder why, you know, we put a reel up on that. And I've had women say I've had a friend share and say yeah, nailing it, because it's that sentiment that it feels it's being lost and mothers don't have a chance to kind of share. Yeah, I'm not bloody coping. But there's a reason why I'm not coping and why are we talking about that? And why are we sharing that and exposing that and being aware because it's only through awareness and true understanding and education around what is happening with relationships with a mother with a father with whatever, that we can actually move forward and progress as a society. Like how else? I mean, you told me I didn't realize this, but you said that Dr. Oscar Cerelac has talked about new statistics with Vandy. Now, a quick message from our sponsor, ask play. Today's episode is brought to you by ask li our very own health tech startup that's redefining wellness for mums. If you're trying to juggle everything in life like we are, and want a simple and easy way to stay on top of your health, this is for you. Imagine a daily scoop of wellness crafted based on your unique health needs and delivered right to your doorstep. As clay makes it easy with bespoke supplements tailored to your needs. Ready to transform your health? Is it as Clay dot coat and book a brief consult with one of our health practitioners? Stay tuned until the end of this episode for an exclusive offer. Escalade He made just for you. Back to the show.
Will Slater:Yeah, well, he actually calls it PE M ad, I think, is that right? I don't know. I have perinatal mood and anxiety disorders, which I think he's which I think is the appropriate term. Not paying you anymore. No, I remember the woman from the Center for perinatal psychology also mentioned that you clot PANDPM ad I think her natal mood and anxiety disorders PMDD, or postpartum mood and anxiety disorders. Yep. Yeah. So I think that's the appropriate term that captures everything through that whole perinatal period and covers all sorts of anxiety, stress, depression, it's the umbrella term that covers all of it. So I went from the statistics in 2012, I think we're one in seven women who suffer from it. And then I think in 2018, it was down to one in 520 19 was down to one in five, or anyone I just saw, should you say up to one in five, the new statistics out of the US statistics from 2023, nothing's coming out. They haven't done any studies yet in Australia. But that number was up to one in three. And that's diagnosed, so you're getting to a point where it's nearly half are actually diagnosed, clinically diagnosed. So that's not anyone who has the suffering silently, or hasn't actually gone in and sought out a diagnosis. So you could probably assume that it's much higher than one in three, it's probably one in two, maybe more. It's obviously a major problem.
Stephanie Slater:Yeah. And why? I mean, why does it increase? Why is it more common that women are being diagnosed with something like this? Like, I believe it's because we're not talking about it, and we don't understand it. And, and now women are seeking help, because the pressures of what exist, are too much like I wrote an article for us to share about what we talked about in one of our earlier podcast, like a few podcasts ago about that transitory state of both men and women into from being an individual into parenthood, motherhood, fatherhood, whatever it is. But I think the way it looks now, for particularly millennial, Gen Z, early Gen Z, are they the ones that come after us? Anyway, you know, let's say like the mid to late 20. bracket to I think,
Will Slater:I think you are too.
Stephanie Slater:I am a millennial. Yeah. I'm a millennial. But anyway, that that bracket of parents now struggling with their roles, because they're having to be
Will Slater:I think there's uncertainty, I think there is a lot of uncertainty. I mean, it's, there's a number of factors. I think, the idea of a community in a village is no more we live a very independent lifestyle. These days, we live in our eyes, apartments, we don't know the people next to us. You know, we live in streets that are full, but we have no idea who our neighbors are, you can't knock on the door, next door, and you know, borrow their margerine if you've run out, it doesn't happen.
Stephanie Slater:Can with Darryl, he's beautiful. He's very good.
Will Slater:But that no longer exists, there's no sense that sense of community is his last, there's been a significant decline in the idea of the third place, you have your first place being home second place tends to be work. I mean, that's declining as well. And third place was the other space that you would go to, to connect with people. So typically, it was religion, religions declined significantly over the last 20 years, sporting clubs, which have declined in participation, even going to the pub and gambling, you know, that seems like a bad thing to be able to do. But for a lot of men, especially, they would catch up and go to the pub on a Friday night and have a couple of beers and maybe bet on the races. Now with gambling on on your app, and on your phone, people stay at home, they don't go to the pub anymore. I mean, not to say that I go to the pub, obviously people still do, but that has reduced even workplaces now. I mean, we people stay at home, work from home, so you don't go into the office, you don't connect with people. So I think all of these factors play into it plus societal pressure and stresses. I mean, if you're a young family back 30 or 40 years ago, you could afford to buy a decent house in a decent area with a decent school. I mean, that's just no longer the case. No, people talk about interest rates being much higher back then. I mean, that's all well and good, but the ratio of your income to the mortgage that you would take out was four or 5x. Now it's 15 to 20x. So it's
Stephanie Slater:that's not even debatable. That's actually completely proven that all is almost impossible for young families to have a family and buy a house in a decent area and rent a
Will Slater:decent school. So that's a contributing factor. I think the idea of gender and gender roles and the uncertainty around that at the moment is a contributing factor men, it is a relatively new phenomenon for women to be in the workforce and to be continuing to work during those child rearing years. But that just never happened before. And you could be a family on a single wage and have a house in a decent area. The wife, the mother wasn't expected to go back to work so she could spend more time with the kids raising them. We lineation but that's that was the that was
Stephanie Slater:a clear delineation also in your roles. Absolutely. So the man would go to work and earn the money, and the woman would stay home and work work at home. But it wasn't seen as work. But it was just an expectation. But there was a clear delineation. Whereas now, men are expected to work and earn a really good wage, because we need it because we only get maybe you know, the 16 weeks of money coming in, come home and support the which should but also just the pressures of it, you know, come home, be soft and gentle and play with the kids and doesn't matter if you had an intense day at work. And then the woman has to love and be this beautiful, stay at home nurturing mom and then go to work as if she doesn't have kids and be present at work. And yeah, it's it's it's a difficult process for both men and women. If they're in a, you know, heterosexual relationship at home, that
Will Slater:and I think that expectation goes both ways. Like there was an expectation that the mayor would work, there was an expectation that the wife would be at home and that I think that worked relatively well. You don't think? Well, as it comes to the thing that we're talking about right now. The stress, the anxiety, the depression, I mean, the numbers are going up, why are they going up? Yeah,
Stephanie Slater:I don't. I'm processing. I'm thinking about what you're saying. Maybe
Will Slater:I've said the wrong thing. I'm happy to retract if I
Stephanie Slater:don't think that. Are you saying? Well, I think I need you to clarify is that you said that, you know, and everything was good. Everything was good stay at home, and then a man would work and then
Will Slater:things for the nucleus of the family to operate and function effectively. I think it's beneficial to have clarity around roles, whatever those roles are whether whether right, you're
Stephanie Slater:not saying that women need to be stay at home mums and men need to be the ones going to work. And that's it and no,
Will Slater:but someone needs to do both of those roles, whoever it is.
Stephanie Slater:Yeah, no, I don't agree with you. For change.
Will Slater:So what do you think?
Stephanie Slater:I think it's about how society supports how families are now. I don't women don't want to just stay at home and men don't want to just work. Like I don't think that that's the dynamic of the family anymore. I think there are some men that absolutely want to fully just work. And there are absolutely some women that want to be a stay at home mom, I think one is that if you choose to be a stay at home mom, or if we talk about stay at home moms, they are still working mums, like as I've said before, being a stay at home mom is the hardest job in the world. And I don't care who you are what like that is we, at times, you may can barely handle the hour before we get to childcare and we're exhausted. So yeah, that's, that's not even gonna get into that. So I think it's a recognition that No, I know, you're totally not. I'm just saying I think one is that we need to recognize that should you choose to be a stay at home parent, because there are fathers that are choosing to stay at home? It's bloody hard. So let's like give that the recognition deserves whether it's through, I don't know. And you're gonna be like, Oh, well, taxes are I don't know. But I'm saying whether it's through monetary somehow, the government gives more, I think they've moved it to a new initiative. I don't think it's happening till 2026. So where both mother and father can or both partners can get some sort of leave and pay entitlements and that kind of thing. I think that's a step in the right direction to supporting the families and allowing both parents to be present with their children, because I don't think it serves the children to only have one primary caregiver. Yeah. So they're always going to have one primary, you know, like, I think for the most part, it will be the mum because they've been pregnant with them and then give birth to them. And usually not all the time. It's probably even 50%. I don't know, but have breastfed. So there's that connection too. So there's always going to be like a primary caregiver, I guess. But we're both parents have primary role in their children's life. That's one part I think that stay at home parents need to get the recognition that they deserve. The second part is there are women who want to go back into the workforce earlier. So how do we support that because I was a career driven I still am. And I didn't want to just it wasn't enough for me to be home. I love my children. I adore them. I will do anything for them. But I need to have that stimulation somewhere else also. So how do we support women coming back into the workplace like small things like you know, expressing at work? Do you know how many women struggle with that and don't have and workplaces don't know how to support women in that and where is a space for them? Do they even have a fridge for them to store the milk like all these things? And then and employees get really uncomfortable like, Oh yeah, you can go into a bathroom, I don't want to go into a bathroom to pump. Like I want to have a nice space where I can actually just I think it's like little thing when a little big things that we need to be doing to support the transition of where the families are now to what it was in the 40s 50s. Because I don't think it was what wasn't sustainable.
Will Slater:I think there's been an enormous change that's occurred in recent decades. And I don't think that we're mature enough, probably as a society to have a conversation about what's best and how that all works. At the moment, everyone wants to do everything. And I think statistics like that would indicate that that's not working. No,
Stephanie Slater:because I don't think there's everything, I don't think there's enough things in place to support, because there's an expectation that we can do it like, Okay, I think we want to do it all. But also, just like, I don't even think that we want to actually no, I take it back. I think that from I'll only speak from a woman's point of view, I think that we're not satisfied with the gender stereotype that women stay at home, cook clean data. And there are many, most women who are incredible, inspiring, intelligent, you know, the list goes on, and can contribute so well to society. And we know that and suddenly we have kids, and we're shunned and put into a bit of a corner, and then have this time off work, or were questioned about whether we're going to have children and all that kind of thing that upsets us and makes us either choose not to have children, like the younger generations are having kids a lot older, they wait until they're like 30 to have their first child. So because we're too scared of what it's going to do to our life. Okay,
Will Slater:so let me say something about that. I agree. And I don't think women should be satisfied about just having to stay home if I mean, I say just, it's a far harder job than anything else. So if they just let's leave it at choose dissatisfied with that is also an interesting idea, because it is the most important job there is on the planet, bar none. To raise a child, make it overly enjoyable. Well, it may not be overly enjoyable for you or for some others, but I'm sure it would be for some women. Oh, yeah, absolutely. It is the most. I mean, there is no more important job on this planet than raising a child and developing a human being. And being the person that molds them into the person that they become. There's a lot of issues with teenagers these days. And, you know, maybe there's a case to be made that they don't have the development opportunities, developmental opportunities when they're younger, because two parents are working. Maybe that's a contributing factor. But I would put it to you that if that dissatisfaction around having to be at home or only being at home, and I'm using quotation marks, is that having a positive or negative effect on statistics? Like, yeah,
Stephanie Slater:but I think you're missing my point that we shouldn't just be expected to stay at home. And then God forbid, we challenge that. And we don't have the strategies in place or the support systems in place in order to allow ourselves to get fulfilment in other areas. So of course, the statistics are increasing, because we're but we're also expected in a way to go back to the workplace because we often families can't live off one income. And so we're trying to do it all but society says yeah, go back to Korea. Yeah, but doesn't actually support that. And so we're, it's the, there's a quote that goes around all the time, which is a mother is expected to be to parent like they don't have work and to work like they don't have kids. You know, when you're at home, you are present. You're the best mom in the world, you do everything. Right. And when you're at work, you don't have kids, you don't answer your phone, you're here, you're there. You don't, you can't worry about so. Yeah, I believe that what I mean, I don't know who am I to say my personal thoughts on my own experiences, that p and a p ma D statistics now have increased to one in three, because there's far more expectations and women to do more than they ever have done. We want to be able to do more. Some, some are making generalizations. I don't want to offend because some, I'm good. I knew I couldn't like some women don't want to just be at home because they want their cup filled in other ways also. But then if they do that, they don't know how to do that because the support systems aren't in place to be able to do that. So if a lot of women have to make a choice of whether I breastfeed or go back to work, and I don't know what the rules are now, I'm pretty sure most employees have to offer, you know, some sort of pumping space and whatever, but it's hard. It's it's an uncomfortable conversation, especially if you have a male boss. They don't know how to handle those kinds of conversations. Women are still being questioned about whether they're pregnant, or whether they're gonna fall pregnant. have children that kind of thing? There's still been questions about the year or two or three years that they've had off in their career like, Hello, yes, because I raised a baby. So I just think that we're there's a lot of expectation on women. And, and then it's a challenge for us to seek out what we feel we want or need, because society doesn't really allow for it. Yeah, I
Will Slater:think there's a lot of truth in what you're saying. The point around expectation. It's, it's interesting when you say that there is an expectation around women to do all of this stuff. But as a woman, as a mother, I want to do all this stuff.
Stephanie Slater:Well, well, okay. I'll clarify, I think there's an expectation for women to be able to do it purely economically. I think that women, a lot of women won't have a choice in having to go back to work earlier than they would want. I
Will Slater:think I think a lot of families are under significant financial pressure. That means both have to work. Yeah. Yeah,
Stephanie Slater:I agree. But we're talking about the women part. So I think that that's one part of the expectation, the wanting is there are women who maybe don't necessarily have to go back financially, or maybe do but also are excited. It brings stimulation, like I know, when I returned to work, even though there was only two and a bit, two and a half days. But gosh, I was like, Okay, well have, I'm not just googoo gaga ring on the floor. I'm not just in my sweats. I'm not just whatever, like I'm having adult conversation, oh, my gosh, I I can still hold this conversation speak about these academic things that I haven't spoken about a year, and hey, it's still there. Wow, this makes me feel good. Like I truly felt that way. They're the ones but what I'm saying is that I don't think society is set up to support those wants. And so we're torn with, but childcare, I have to pick them up by this time or school finishes at 330. But I want to work but then I can't and then I can't afford childcare after school hours, and then that's extra so that it means I have to work more so then do I not work more? And then do I just stay home in order to be like, it's just not set up for? I think both parties part, both partners in the relationship to both work to have this beautiful supportive family at home. I just don't think we're set up as a society for that.
Will Slater:I agree with you, because I think that those changes are relatively new. And so we haven't caught up to
Stephanie Slater:it. And that's probably it. That's something they're new. And that's probably why right now the statistics are reflecting these challenges, because
Will Slater:the only thought that I would have about that. Is it? Like is it a little bit utopian? Is there a little bit of we want it all we want to eat our cake and have it to Oh, I'm not talking about women specifically, but couples, families, that young families, we want to live in a great area, we want to both work, we want to have all the support in place. We want to not feel stressed and pressured.
Stephanie Slater:You know, I don't think it's about not feeling stressed and pressured. I hear what you're saying. At first. I didn't because I hope you're saying women I'd be like have their cake and eat it too. That I was gonna punch him in the mouth just
Will Slater:dying to be offended.
Stephanie Slater:No, I wasn't. But yeah, yeah. And I think we are in an age where we want what we want and especially younger, like what's the what's the youngest, you know, the tension question wanting everything that he says. But even like, who are the teen slash early 20s? Are they? I think Gen Z does. But you know, they are like this generation that, like, I'll do what I want on my terms. Like it or lump it. I'll find another job. You can't tell me what like it's crazy. The shift in attitude? Well,
Will Slater:they might very well make it work generation has been the generation that's going through the transition. We're in
Stephanie Slater:that limbo, yeah, where we've got our foot a little bit in the boomers, because they were our parents. And then we've got our foot a little bit in the younger because we're sort of CUSP. And so we're like, who are we? Where are we? But we want this all but that's not all. But traditionally, I've seen is no, but my mom did it this way. But they're doing it that way. Don't want to do that. So I think we're so
Will Slater:that's my point about the statistics increasing. There is no denying that that has happened. Yeah. Why has that happened? There? Probably a number of factors. But you know, you contrasted the sitting on the floor, you're you're going with your kids versus being back in the workforce, which brings an enormous amount of stress because of all of the reasons that you outlined. So would being at home, positively impact those statistics, albeit it may not be exactly what you want to do? No,
Stephanie Slater:no, sorry. No. I think that's really unfair. I think that's I'm not saying that I think that's a really unfair thing to say, That's what should I think that's a really unfair thing to say that in order to improve those statistics to get them down, women should just let go of the career aspirations because society workplaces, whatever, making it too difficult for what and just accept that your role, which is a very, very, very darn important role, is to be at home with the children to raise them, which puts immense guilt. Like when you said that I felt myself being triggered. I was like, Shit, I should yeah, that's why I feel so good. You said to me the other day, or maybe Saturdays, you know, Sunday mornings, we could do this for the work for work for our business, and I'll see if my Mum can and I'm like, No, I don't I'm not me. seeing every minute with my children, but now you're saying, Oh, it's the most important data, which then I think oh, my gosh, have I spent enough time with the kids? Like, does it right. So
Will Slater:just to be clear, I'm not suggesting that that is the solution. By any stretch of the imagination. What
Stephanie Slater:are you suggesting?
Will Slater:The simple fact of that of it may be that that? No,
Stephanie Slater:that's far too simplistic. And I will not agree with that. I don't think that saying that. It's too hard to get in the workplace. So should you just, you know,
Will Slater:no, I think as a society, we should progress. We should mature, we should find ways.
Stephanie Slater:Statistics have increased? I
Will Slater:think it's part of it, along with all the other factors that I mentioned.
Stephanie Slater:Here back what you said you didn't you didn't say that. Anyway. We did. You can go back and edit.
Will Slater:I think it would be part of the reason why yes, there's
Stephanie Slater:a lot of variables.
Will Slater:I agree. I agree. I'm not suggesting that
Stephanie Slater:has this got to do with being vulnerable and being sitting in the discomfort of what we started with. We've taken this on a journey. Well,
Will Slater:you said before that it's difficult, especially as a mom to be open and honest, even with your mother's group. And the point that we're getting to now is to talk about some of the challenges that exist. And I think both of them are relevant, because in both situations, it's really hard for us to be honest and truthful. Yeah, I'm going to assume that most of this most of our listeners, don't listen to the LEX Friedman podcast, but but I do, and he had an interview with is I don't know how old he is, is sort of a young dude, he always wears a suit is a bit of a nerdy looking fella he like he's an expert in AI and stuff. I don't really know, he's kind of, he's kind of come from nowhere in the tech world and just interviewed a lot of interesting people. And he interviewed Jeff Bezos the other day. And they were talking about this idea of truth and why it's so difficult. And the reason why it's difficult is because, as a society, we are social seeking creatures, we seek to connect and get along, we go along to get along. Yeah, absolutely. In historically, if you disagreed with the pack, you would die. Because you would be left on your own, and you would get eaten. So by seeking the truth, and by being honest, you are separating yourself from the pack. My previous business was called 50 quotes because it was a an honor to Socrates. And Socrates was someone who used to try and find the truth through asking questions. He ended up being killed, because it was seen to be he was poisoning the youth, with truth. In today's society, trying to be honest, and seek the truth is a very difficult thing to do. In organizations, even at home, I mean, even for us to be honest with each other. We had a blue the other day because you thought that I was being a certain way. And I said to you, I'm not I'm all good. But you didn't believe that, because you thought that I was, you know, it was a misunderstanding, but you thought that there was something going on. So there's this idea of being truthful and being honest, and I think your conversation about by looking at me funny, I
Stephanie Slater:just don't think that that's a very valid example. How's that got to do with telling the truth? And like, obviously, you're saying that you're telling truth, but it wasn't as in a moment of us being honest with it anyway. Yep. Keep going? Yes. Because
Will Slater:you don't believe me? You didn't believe me? Because you there have obviously been times in the past where I haven't been 100%. True. Yes.
Stephanie Slater:I think that's different, though, to conforming and to, you know, keeping with the pack in order to not be alienated, which I totally agree with that. It's a huge psychological phenomenon.
Will Slater:Yeah, well, maybe in your mother's group, it was hard to be honest. Because you want to be socially accepted by the group. Ah, when people ask you how you're going, you don't want to be honest. Because you don't you want to be accepted by the group. Absolutely. But
Stephanie Slater:everything relationships, like you don't want to, when people ask you about how your relationship is, you're not going to turn around go was friggin shit this week. And this is why because you feel uncomfortable, you're not going to be judged, or they're going to push me out of the group and I got, like, whatever, we're gonna
Will Slater:be offended. And I think this conversation about the challenges around society and women back into work, and those statistics are hard because we can't have an honest conversation because if people speak their truth, they will probably offend like, I'm sure I've offended someone during this conversation I haven't intended to I'm trying to learn and have a discussion and say what I believe to be true and I'm happy for that to be challenged.
Stephanie Slater:So we need to wrap it up. It's been a very long podcast The
Will Slater:only times that I ever speak you try and wrap me up. That's not true. Do you either cut me off or you look at me like come on, wrap it up? No,
Stephanie Slater:but I Yes. Wrap it up. Oh, don't get if I spoke my truth and you're offended.
Will Slater:You look at me, like where are you going with this? Why are you saying this? This is totally irrelevant. totally irrelevant.
Stephanie Slater:I mean, absolute agreeance. With you,
Will Slater:Todd for people to be honest. And tell the truth. I totally
Stephanie Slater:agree. And I'm not even conforming. I agree. I think you're absolutely right.
Will Slater:Well, happy Boxing Day. Are you really like me that I wrap it up? I think that it is. I think it's a problem. I think it's a challenge that we can't speak honestly, because it prevents a lot of progress. Absolutely.
Stephanie Slater:Right. Yeah. I concur. I do. Well, I can keep going on about it. I can repeat myself. But I absolutely agree. I think, yeah, until we're, we're until we're comfortable with sitting in the discomfort of whatever it is truth. vulnerability. Brene. Brown is like the perfect example president who talks about all of this, you know, vulnerability is your greatest strength, but we're so scared to sit in that because there's judgment. And the judgment might be the isolation that alienation they're, you know, losing groups of friends, family, whatever it might be, but we have to be okay with that.
Will Slater:Okay. Happy Boxing Day.
Stephanie Slater:Happy Boxing Day.
Will Slater:Hope you have a beautiful crisp whiskey, Nick. Haha. And
Stephanie Slater:I think next slide. Next slide. Next episode will be at the
Will Slater:No, sorry. But we have had confirmation from the anglers that they're happy for us to sit in their b&b corner, just in the Viren bullshit corner so we will be recording from down there in early January. All
Stephanie Slater:right, so you're wiped off by. Thank you for listening all the way to the end of the b&b corner brought to you by Escalade. As a way for us to say thank you, we are offering the first 50 months of free consult and your first month's product free. All you need to do is visit escalade.co. Schedule a concert with one of our practitioners and enter the promo code BB consult. Take your first step towards personalized wellness with Escalade today