In Episode 16, Stephanie and Will openly explore the depths of their emotional challenges. From navigating personal emotional baggage to fostering intimacy and understanding in their relationship, this episode is a raw and honest discussion about the complexities of marital dynamics. Tune in to witness their journey of rediscovery and reconnection.
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In Episode 16, Stephanie and Will openly explore the depths of their emotional challenges. From navigating personal emotional baggage to fostering intimacy and understanding in their relationship, this episode is a raw and honest discussion about the complexities of marital dynamics. Tune in to witness their journey of rediscovery and reconnection.
Exclusive offer
Head to askle.co now and use the code at the end of the episode to access a free consult & your first month's product free!
Follow us
B&B Corner Instagram
Asklé Instagram
Stephanie Instagram
Will Instagram
Get in touch
info@askle.co
Hey listeners. Before we jump into today's episode of the b&b corner, a quick shout out to our startup ask Lee. If you're a mom looking for personalized nutrition that fits into your busy life, visit escalade.co today, and stay tuned until the end for an exclusive offer just for our listeners.
Will Slater:I think our insight was, Steph has been carrying everyone's bags about time that stops before the universe stops at for her. Hello. Welcome to the BMV corner.
Stephanie Slater:Good morning, everybody. Welcome. Welcome. Nice to have you.
Will Slater:Very good to have you.
Stephanie Slater:What Episode Are we up to?
Will Slater:This is episode 16.
Stephanie Slater:So I reckon once we get to 20 we start saying what episode number it is. Because that goal is 20 Well, obviously more
Will Slater:if we get to 20 we're in the top 1% Yeah, so we're trying to get there.
Stephanie Slater:So we're gonna stamp that every every time till we get to 20. Yeah,
Will Slater:that sounds good.
Stephanie Slater:And then we'll just say top 1%. top one was actually had a really good reflection of our podcast. You know, the the thing that feature Buzzsprout, or whatever we did that were in the top 50 downloads isn't going to sell top 50% of downloads, sorry, globally, globally. I got a pretty cool
Will Slater:listen to in 10 countries. Yeah, we've had over 700 downloads now. Got a little email the other day. Yes. We were proud of us celebrating our 50th download. So 700 is good. Yeah, that's true. We've been doing it for about three months. So kudos to us. What's our goal for next year? What percentage? Do we want to be in? 30? Top 30?
Stephanie Slater:I have no idea that's achievable. I
Will Slater:don't even know what that that means. Over 150 downloads per week.
Stephanie Slater:I mean, that doesn't people tell you friends? Come on, get on it. Do you know it's been lovely though, as well. We've had a lot of people over this time where things are quiet. And I don't know, you just think of people going to fall off the bandwagon. Do people care and people have been messaging us like, just listen to your episode. And I'm like, what really?
Will Slater:Did you thank you for sitting around over Christmas.
Stephanie Slater:Choosing to listen to us, that's kind of cool. That is.
Will Slater:So thank you all, if you like what you hear, leave us a like and subscribe or share it with your friends. Consistency is key for us. So we're trying to take some, it's been a big year, we've had, there's been a lot of change in our household. There's been a lot of stressful times a lot of uncertainty, because like every area of our life is stressful.
Stephanie Slater:There's no rather tumultuous, there's no stability
Will Slater:in any area at the moment, which makes things challenging. We've been working on getting some stability in our relationship, which we might talk about in a minute. But
Stephanie Slater:but in the spirit of the theme of today's episode, because we do want to talk about, I guess, this idea of gratitude and celebrating small wins and how we reconnect and you know, that kind of journey of that. Yeah, I think acknowledging the Buzzsprout thing and that we you know, in within three months, we're already in the top 50% of downloads, which is a huge feat, like I don't think I didn't quite understand it until I realized what it meant. And I was like, Oh, wow, that's impressive. And I think you and I are very quick at just moving on to the next thing and not actually sitting in what we've just done and achieved. And then we berate ourselves over what we haven't done yet. And we forget to look back with gratitude on what we have achieved and what we have done. Because it's been seven months. That's it, like April 2020 24 will be a full year when we both went into this full, you know, full noise. Sure,
Will Slater:I will be. And so there's been a lot of change. And there's been Yes, it's been about a year. And so we're trying to, were intentionally trying to take a little bit of a break over this sort of festive period, which isn't always easy. Maybe more for me than for you. But I struggled to just switch off. And so we've been really deliberately trying to switch off because next year, we've got a lot of things planned and some exciting things, but it's going to be full on. So we're trying to just stop, reconnect and recalibrate before we go into it. But despite that consistency around our podcast is critical. So we're in here in the office. There's basically
Stephanie Slater:no one else like five people are in this entire building,
Will Slater:recording this to make sure that we stay consistent. But I think what you're saying about
Stephanie Slater:how big the year has been in taking time off if we're completely honest with ourselves, each other and our community. And you probably would have noticed in the second last like two episodes ago, we talked about how Yeah, it was it was hard and things were getting we probably were reaching a point where we were struggling in our when I say he's struggling in our relationship. I think we were just on a bit of a downward spiral because there was so much stress in every way. It's the end of the year, the year exhaustion and the kids are exhausted like there are so many layers is and then we weren't leaning into one another and we weren't coming together every conversation that should be benign or should just be a conversation ended up becoming either antagonistic, or it just had a layer of confrontation where it didn't need to be. And we didn't. We couldn't work through that. And we just were at each other and we think that each of us individually, we're handling it and the other person can't say I'm just talking normally I'm just trying to bring I'm just trying to raise this. I'm just trying to do digital. I mean, we can talk about this, but we listened to a podcast last night together. It was an Esther Perel. We love her. We wish she was like counselors too, sometimes. But it was actually a podcast has an oven if you've heard a duel, I can't say her name dua, Lipa Leaper Looper oh my gosh, now I don't even know last night was the first time you knew she was a Dua Lipa. She has a podcast brought to you by BBC actually, which I thought was interesting. And she interviewed Esther Perel, and Esther Perel, was saying, in relationships, that often what happens is, we fight for fact, over meaning and experience. And what she was saying, what she meant by that was the idea that and will and I have been doing this lately, a lot, where we're just trying to prove our points and prove the other person wrong, and say, Well, this is actually what happened, and I have the facts, you're, you're being ridiculous. That's not even what happened. And we're taking that and prioritizing that over how the other person is actually feeling. And she used that really great analogy of the recipe. So if you make something and you give it to the person versus Oh, this tastes quite salty, you don't turn around and go, What I didn't even put any salt, or you might if you're defensive, but the fact is, that person is tasting salt is experiencing something that feels salty to them. And so, you know, that's their experience of it. And we respect that. But in these relationships in these times where we have these constant confrontations, we're not respecting the experience and the meaning that the other person has attached to it. And so instead, we're saying, factually, this is what occurred, I'm sorry that you're interpreting it that way. And we get like, I
Will Slater:do that a lot, especially that salty thing was a really powerful point that she made. But she also went on to say that if the other person feels that it's salty, then and you say that you care about them, then you should care that they think that it's salty, yes, yes, I think that's true of a lot of the times that you share your emotions that you're having about a particular situation, or something that's occurred or a conversation that we've had, and you say, I'm feeling in this way. And my immediate defense mechanism is to say, maybe not explicitly, but I certainly think that's fucking ridiculous. Why you have no right to feel that way. You have no reason to feel that way. These are the things that I did. And your back is always, my intentions weren't. My intentions weren't to make you feel that way. And my defenses go up. Because I think, how dare you tell me that I'm a bad person for making you feel that way. I'm not a bad person, I'm a good person. And then I try and point two other things that I've done to say, look at all these examples of what makes me a good person. I'm not a person who would make someone feel however you're feeling. But that's the total totally the wrong way to look at it. Because of the salt thing. You know, it's, I didn't mean to put more salt in it. I didn't mean to put too much salt in it. Well, the fact is, you felt that way. And if I care about you, then I should respect the fact that you're feeling that way and find out what the meaning is or what your experience is, and how I can adjust things accordingly. To take that into account and figure out a better way to do it, rather than just getting defensive about how I've done it a while I've done it in a particular way.
Stephanie Slater:And I think we're both that way, though. I don't think you need to. Yeah, yeah. But I definitely know that I get defensive as well. And I think because that's the proud talked about that where you reflect back on that and say, but I'm not bad person who makes someone else feel horrible. That's not what I am or who I am or what I do. So don't you dare put that on me. We, you know, it's so personal. It's like an actually, it's not, when you actually think about it, it's not personal at all. It becomes the other person's experience. So you get to let go and go wow, you're feeling that? Oh, my gosh, let me help you through that. What can I do that will make it better for you? So it's not that I put too much time it's you've experienced it as too much soak, soak salt. So cool. How can I help it be less salty for you? What you know, keep using that analogy, but I think that's actually a good way of looking at it in that it's not it's not perfect. It's personal for the person experiencing it. So let's just support that person. But anyway, this all came about because, William, good on him. But yeah, we've been we've been at each other, for lack of a better phrase probably
Will Slater:been a few weeks where there's hardly been a day go by where we haven't had some sort of little tiff of some description. Bigger than others. Yes.
Stephanie Slater:Yeah. And generally we get through it and we talk it out, but it's hard. Like they're hard conversations. They're not we're not coming to one another with love and kindness and grace and space and all that well. We're not we're just it's the whole factual thing. I'm going to prove this to you, you're going to hear me and off Fine, let's let it go. Like they're not overly loving conversations.
Will Slater:And I think it's easy to fall into this trap. I mean, we've we've certainly fallen into the trap, because all of our conversations around practical things around the business and what we're doing from a marketing perspective and a strategy perspective and a finance perspective, and that's taking up all of our time. And if we're not doing that we're focused on the kids and getting them birthed and fed and what's happening with them and our submissions, we got this going on aerobars got that, how do we manage that. And then we get to the end of that, and we go to bed, and we
Stephanie Slater:try to get an exercise in that. So we're like, we have space to do that. But we're not actually sitting with any true emotion. It's been tough. It has been really tough. And I think I was both definitely felt it. I think I was, as I mentioned in one of the podcasts, but I was getting to a point where like, all I'm not coping like this is not. And we had a meeting with our business advisors, and they actually said, take time off, take a week, not saying fully like, check, you know, give yourself an hour a day where you might do emails, and you might do whatever or, you know, we might spend time doing creative things, which will be so exciting because we never have time or space to just think creatively,
Will Slater:which we're doing. Yeah, exactly. What's gonna little reveal that.
Stephanie Slater:Oh, nice having specials coming up. Okay. Watch
Will Slater:this something special is coming. Yes, I
Stephanie Slater:think it's so important that we honestly put the brakes on it and said, right, the business will not be successful. If you and I are not good. If we're not strong. If we're not true partners in this, the business will fall to pieces immediately. Like there's just no way I can survive because it's built on you and I and our story and our shared experience and all that kind of thing. So and then and we've been noticing that with the kids are probably feeding off that energy a bit. We both haven't been handling the big emotions of Sebastian, as you know, I mean, Arabella is going to get there, she's already getting quite sassy and whatever. But Subash is definitely the typical toddlerhood of, you know, that three to four year old, just egocentrism type drama. So and we're just we're not serving him either. So we're not coming to any one in our family with gentle gentleness. So we've decided brakes on, totally put a halt on all that kind of thing. And let's just find each other again, like let's just be and so Will's parents there. We were very lucky in that both of our sets of parents have been so generous with us over Christmas, and we're so bless. Like, we truly are so blessed with my mum and your parents like beyond. And your parents gifted us, I guess, an experience. They said do something for you. And Babysitting is covered. I was like, let's wait till end of January. And was like, No, we're doing it tomorrow night. And I'm like, we can't do it tomorrow. Now that we've got these we've got that and we got to pack for Lauren and daughter because we're going to Lauren for a week and then rose bandwidth for a week which will be beautiful. It was like Steph, we can pack anytime and
Will Slater:I was like okay, fine. If you buddy antsy about all this shit, that doesn't matter. I do want more control. Well, yeah, doesn't matter to me probably matters to you. Well, it doesn't even
Stephanie Slater:matter to me afterwards. I think it's just when I think about it. I get a bit overwhelmed like when I've got to pack this and I've haven't done the washing and haven't done and have I got the food and what am I bringing into it? Like I just get into that overwhelm. And it's good because you snap me out of that you can say Steph, it will be fine. Let's just go so I'm so so so glad he's
Will Slater:probably a lot more spontaneous and opportunities when they arise. Yeah. Rather than pushing them off because never know what's gonna happen. No Anything could happen between now and January and
Stephanie Slater:it was the perfect time though. It's exactly when we needed it. So you decided we would go out
Will Slater:so we went and had a night in the city last night we're gonna go out for dinner then we thought we'd spend all this money on a stage in a nice hotel. You know, you go out for dinner you check in you get organized, you go out you come back late at night you sleep and get up and leave so we thought no bug that we want to get as much value out of this hotel as we possibly can. So we went for a light lunch seafood restaurant and and Southbank which the food was great, the service was
Stephanie Slater:beautiful, but gosh, that says I know she literally we had audit absolutely beautiful seafood but we were quite hungry we hadn't eaten all day. So we kind of just needed like something so when we moved to the bar, we got some oysters and we got some hot chips and she literally they forgot the chips and when she does finally come with the chips she like puts the bowl on the table and scatters like 10 chips off the out of the bowl onto the table and was like you go sorry about that. Yeah, we're just like you just drop like half that it was so erratic anyway, just yet beautiful
Will Slater:restaurant for a bit of a late lunch. And then we just went back to the hotel, which had dinner at like four o'clock. We called the kids at like five I reckon it was when we called them because I still know we literally just lay in bed for the whole night. We didn't move, but we put on a Esther Pearl podcast, and started listening to it didn't even know.
Stephanie Slater:We didn't match your dismay.
Will Slater:And we put on the Esther Perel podcast and we just listened to it and it started She started sharing a lot of things that I think just made us reflective of what was going on for us. And we'd pause it at certain points and talk about it and, and probably allowed us to identify and reflect on some things that we were doing in our relationship and the way that we communicated. And it was probably more profound for me having a realization than necessarily for you. But I think it allowed me to, for the first time, understand what you've been trying to say to me for
Stephanie Slater:so long. I do think also, that different environments allow for that to occur. Like, I don't fear, I think it's harder to sit and have such intimacy. And I mean that in just sitting with one another, laying each other's arms, you know, having a podcast on and then pausing. And actually, sometimes we didn't talk, we just laid there. And then we did talk, and then we, it was emotional intimacy. It was Yeah, definitely. But I think that that's can be difficult to do in your own home, you know, your kids are down the hall, or you maybe don't have kids, but probably if you listen to this, you most likely would. But you know, kids down the hall, your bedroom is always the chaotic place anyway, because you kids run in there, and you know, like all the lounge, but then the TV or whatever it might be, I just think it's harder. And I think this was just, you know, you're in these four walls, we had this stunning view, which we just stared out. And you know, as it turned to night, and it was just this beautiful atmosphere, it just felt like this really safe, nurturing space to it's like an invited us to have that discussion, it did really feel that way. And I do believe that, you know, if you're a couple out there who are maybe at a point where we were where you didn't know how to sort of have, you don't know how to have that conversation, how to even initiate it what to do. I do think that removing yourself from your your standard environment, your home and going somewhere taking yourself out of that does allow for even you to be different, like I wasn't a mum last night. I think if I'm at home, I'm looking around, I see the mess, I think should happen back in these floors in a week. And you just say stuff, you don't care.
Will Slater:There's also a certain expectation of behavior probably that you have of yourself and the other person that you know, those typical patterns you can fall into at home because it feels familiar. Totally. So you're sitting in a familiar place, having a familiar experience, someone shares something that feels familiar when you just get into this pattern that you always get into being defensive and being judgmental and not listening. Yeah. And so I think, yeah, changing the environment allowed us to change the way we think
Stephanie Slater:dynamic of the conversation, I think was really, so I would first of all, just highly, highly, highly recommend. If you feel like you need to reconnect with your partner, take yourself out for something that you enjoy, like we enjoy food, we love good food. So take yourself out. And then if you can, if you have the resources available to go stay somewhere, have some time for yourself. It's
Will Slater:very expensive. I know No, no hotel room, we did stay in a nice hotel, but it could have been any
Stephanie Slater:holiday. And that's not where we stayed. But you know, but yeah, it's not about where it's just don't be home, I do believe that that made a huge difference to our ability to connect and communicate in a way that we haven't done at home in. We actually were lying there. Thinking about when we first got together, back in 2016. When we were young, we used to lay in bed and just talk for it would be like three, four in the morning. And it was like we really need to go to sleep. And I was like ever, we don't have anything to really talk about, like, redo the approval. But last night, my gosh, we just talked and talked and talked it was so nice. I think
Will Slater:it's important. I probably always referenced business related stuff. But I think it's important for relationships as well. In business people often the way that they start the hustle, the hard work, the things that they do to build their company they have they often lose sight of once they're at a certain scale. And they stopped doing all those little things that got him to that point. And they need to go back and remember all the things that they did to help them get there and keep doing them. And I think it's during a relationship, you have that honeymoon phase where you like we did you lay in bed and you talk till 4am And you're getting to know each other and it's the curiosity that you have for one another is so strong, you're trying to learn and understand and hear and listen. And then life goes on and you get married and you have kids and you stop doing all of those things that built the connection in the first place. So I think it's really important for any relationship at any stage, or certainly for us. We've been together for what nearly 10 years, and we've stopped doing those things that we remember to keep doing them. And keep doing them regularly. Because that time out to just lay and be with each other and talk and share and learn about each other. There's so much that we don't know about each other. There's no way that we know everything, and we never will. And I think as soon as you lose that curiosity for each other Yeah, stuffed, you're never going to, you're never going to maintain the level of emotional intimacy that's required to have a long lasting relationship. Or maybe it's long lasting. But maybe it's not fulfilling in the way that it could be. Yeah.
Stephanie Slater:And I think, then you hit the nail on the head in emotional intimacy. I think that's where we've been lacking massively. Like, we just haven't known how to connect, because everything has been either business talk or kid talk. And both are stressful. So they're always heightened conversations and never just like, Yeah, sounds good. Cool. Let's go with that. It's like, shit, do we make that decision? Do we not? Do we go with this person? Oh, my gosh, but that's going to cost this much. Oh, hang on. If you get Sebastian, I'll get Ira Albert arabelle. Screaming, I'll take her then you take him everything. I feel like our whole day, from the moment we get up to the moment we go to bed is negotiation of some sort of negotiation and problem solving. They're like our key thing. So how do you have this time to be like, and how are you really. So that's why
Will Slater:I've suggested and I know you're feeling a little bit unsure about it. But Sunday nights, yeah, you're gonna put the kids again, I am keen, good. Sunday nights, we're going to put the kids to bed, we're going to lay down in our bed. And we're going to put on some sort of podcast or something that we've, we've got an interest in listening to together, and we're going to listen, and we're just going to buy we don't listen to a podcast every time but we're just going to spend that time that will feel forced initially, because it will be weird. And when I go downstairs and watch TV, or we want to look at our phones or whatever. But we're going to force ourselves to just be in that space once a week to just see what happens. Maybe sometimes we have profound conversations, maybe sometimes we stare at the ceiling for two hours and go to bed.
Stephanie Slater:Not this pope, there's nothing wrong with not being overstimulated. You know, maybe we are just laying there. Having a having not having a profound conversation, as you said, staring at the ceiling and just laying there but not having chaos. And whether that's just bright flashy lights on TV, scrolling mindlessly on a phone, Kid screaming, work stuff, like maybe it's just laying there and allowing it the day to wash over you and to be I think in the chaos of everyone's day to day life with how busy we are. We're so afraid to just sit and be that feels really uncomfortable. Because a you think you should be doing something else, we shouldn't be busy. If we're not busy, then we're being lazy, and all this kind of thing. But actually, like, I just feel like last night has given me such, it's exactly what I was needing to go into the new year with, I needed to feel reconnected to you. I needed to be reminded of how strong our relationship is and what we love about each other and how much we actually care about each other and our family and our values and time to just sit and lay there and not do a single thing because it wasn't nothing to do. And it's like, yeah, okay, I've got these like, I'm excited. Now I've got that little pep in my step. And I'm good. Yeah, it's just done wonder once kids
Will Slater:arrive, when do you when do you ever just be together? Or when do you ever just breathe together? You don't? That is not a thing that you do with your husband, wife, partner, especially once you get there off? You never have the scope or the space? Or you feel like you don't have the scope or the space? I know we have. In hindsight, I don't think we've created the time or the space, I think exactly. That's plenty of time and space to do it. You just have to be intentional and creative. Yeah, yep. We never have we sit on the couch and watch TV if we that's
Stephanie Slater:what we need. Yeah. And sometimes you do sometimes you do need like mind numbing, whatever, once a week, an hour a week or whatever, you know, whatever it is a few hours once a week is nothing like it's one
Will Slater:night a week that we prioritize our time where we are just together, lay together, breathe together. And that's it. And whatever comes with that comes of it but have no expectation is going to we don't have to have these big conversations. It can just be we can just be together. And that's it. Yeah, to share some of the insights.
Stephanie Slater:Now a quick message from our sponsor, ask why. Today's episode is brought to you by ask li our very own health tech startup that's redefining wellness for moms. If you're trying to juggle everything in life like we are, and want a simple and easy way to stay on top of your health. This is for you. Imagine a daily scoop of wellness crafted based on your unique health needs and delivered right to your doorstep. As clay makes it easy with bespoke supplements tailored to your needs. Ready to transform your health is@esquire.co and book a brief consult with one of our health practitioners. Stay tuned until the end of this episode for an exclusive offer. Ask Lee made just for you back to the show. So wills will has this like habit and bless him because this is how he's I don't know. Well, I don't hate it but you're just such an analytical kind of thinker. So even in movies or even if whatever we're doing we'll have to pause things enough to discuss it and a half to whatever it is last night when we're listening to the podcast but last hour is is actually really valuable. Like I really enjoyed it. But we would pause it, we would talk and then we'll was writing. I do and I'll sometimes when you pause, because I wanted to finish the the like the idea and then anyway, that's not the point. So we'll we'll pause it and then we'd write things down. Like, what's our learning? Like, oh, what did that feel really powerful to you? Yeah, that bid did that bid dinner. This is why I'm resonating dada. So we've literally got a note section, where it's got like, we'll staff will step by step both sides. But I think it was really powerful because it was something that we can then go back to and look at and say, Oh, wow, okay. That's what we learned that night. That's what we want to bring into our future. And
Will Slater:I think the first insight for me that I had allowed me to unlock the other bigger insight, or the learning or understanding, I heard of the thing that you've been trying to tell me for open for years, or however long? So
Stephanie Slater:should I just preface it with I guess the thing I've always been saying to you, is I'm so exhausted, I'm just so tired. I'm so at capacity. I don't have the energy for that. I'm just done. I always say I'm done. I'm done. And you're done with this relationship been around? I'm like, No, it's not that I'm done with the relationship. Just done. I feel done. Like I'm all out, make all out, got nothing left to give, and
Will Slater:I'm sitting back on hell you possibly done like, go to bed earlier? Yeah, get up earlier, run in the morning, get out the door at 6am. Every day, go run or go to the Pilates. Get yourself right, eat better, like whatever it is just, you can't be done. Yeah, it's a long road ahead. cannot be done at this stage. And I've never been able to understand you. And I've constantly heard you saying that. And I've always felt like that's just this friggin narrative that you've got because of whatever some sort of experience that you've had, or whatever it might be. And so instead of actually trying to understand it, I've always just brushed it off. Like, well, that's just Jeff's narrative. How about you hurry up and find a new narrative? That's just get into action? Let's get into action. Do something about it? Yeah. Because I'm sitting there thinking I'm not feeling done. Heaps of energy. Let's go, come on. Let's do this. And so I also on top of that, I have been getting some feedback from you. And as part of our sort of therapy sessions, or couples therapy sessions, that I'm not very good with emotion, or that I lack emotion. Yeah,
Stephanie Slater:I think it's you more sitting in emotion, I noticed the lack of emotion, something
Will Slater:around a motion for me. And I have always probably seen that as a weakness and a liability. And probably I look at you when your emotion emotional. I go, Why the hell would I want that? Doesn't seem to be in any way beneficial to us. And then I was at the cricket the other day with dad and you've said it to me for so long. But then he said it to me as well. He goes, Yeah, you're pretty unemotional. I was like, shit. That's interesting. Why do you think that? And then we had a conversation about it. And so I'm thinking, Okay,
Stephanie Slater:I think because I think this does encapsulate you he sort of said, God forbid, Touchwood. If something would have happened to me, I'd be able to sort it out. Yeah, like you would just go into solution mode solution, right? Like, obviously, you were hoping to be heartbroken. But rather than wallow in that and sit in that, and I'm like, I can't I can't go on I gotta go. You just back. Right? Done it our kids this Maria down. And did you hear? Christine will do that. Like, you would just put an action plan together. And you would soldier on and it's so like, you are stoic. You're quite like a mum. Yeah, there's no, you wouldn't again, you wouldn't sit in the emotion of it. It would be like not a waste of time. But
Will Slater:I feel like it was a liability. I feel like it was preventing me from doing the other stuff that needed to be done. Yeah. And so I've been reflecting on this and thinking jays, people kind of sharing with me that this is an maybe not an issue, but just an area of myself that maybe needs work. And at the same time, I'm sitting there going well, why?
Stephanie Slater:Like, why do I need that doesn't seem that beneficial, that
Will Slater:doesn't seem desirable in any way, shape, or form? And I've also Yeah, I think I've seen the benefit that it's had for me, it's allowed me to pick myself up and move on. And, you know, things have happened. I've shared some of the experiences with different businesses. I've heard, you know, COVID, running a travel company wasn't ideal. Having a business partner who passed away from a brain tumor wasn't ideal, but I've just, it's allowed me to get up and just keep going because I've been relatively unemotional. But anyway, the insight I had last night is that I, I actually, for the first time realized that maybe I didn't get an opportunity to, or maybe I didn't have the space to express my emotions as a teenager, and I went through a really challenging period as a teenager. And I think, for whatever reason, I just didn't have the space to express that or understand that or sit in it. I just kind of bottled it up and pushed it down. And never probably fully dealt with. It just said right. That happened. Move on. And I think as a result of that, I use you, I burden you with all of my emotions. And maybe I maybe part of the attraction of you, to me in the first place subconsciously was, you are so willing to and prepared to take on the emotions of other people that I maybe saw that and thought, Great. Thanks very much, you can take all of mine so I don't have to deal with it. And then that'll add a bigger insight later on that. In actual fact, you're carrying all of the, I'm going to call them bags, the emotional bags for all of us, the four of us in our family, you're carrying your emotions, you're carrying the emotions of Arabella, you're carrying the emotions of Sebastian. And I've allowed you to carry the emotions of for me, because I haven't been prepared to sit with them or understand them or even feel them. So you're walking around with four duffel bags, full of emotions from the four of us. Sebastian is able to offload to you because he's a toddler Arabella was able to offload. I have offloaded. And you're carrying your own. And these moments that we have where you try and share with me some of that load. You sit down on the couch, you're exhausted. And you have a moment with me where you say, Hey, can you just don't even carry the whole bag, just take the toiletry bag out of this suitcase? And hold on to it for me for just a couple of minutes? And is that die turned around? No, go. Fuck that. Take your toiletry bag back. And also, fuck you for making me feel bad. That's basically what happens. It happens over and over and over. And you're sitting there going, I'm exhausted. I'm overwhelmed. I'm at capacity. And I'm sitting there going? What the hell? Are you talking about me? Why do you not have space for anything else? This does not make sense to me. It wasn't until last night when I finally you've been saying this to me for years. And I finally realized I was like holy shit. You have allowed her to carry the baggage for this entire family. And you have done nothing to take any of that load off her? Well, I
Stephanie Slater:don't. Yes. I don't. That's not.
Will Slater:I have not done that consciously. I haven't that's not been. The intention hasn't been to do that. I mean, intentions, we can say how relevant they are not that doesn't matter. But I have. I've absolutely not like that's not been a malicious thing that I've said, hey, if I can take all this and deal with it. I've not tried to do that deliberately, you
Stephanie Slater:helped me carry loads in other ways. Like I think there have been things over the years that you have very, very much supported me in. But I think when we're talking about this sort of emotional baggage, yeah.
Will Slater:And I realized last night that that's, I think that's something that I've learned or that I've developed for whatever reason, because it's probably served me it's allowed me to get on and do things and not wallow and sit in things. So it's been it's, I'm not saying that's all bad. No, you know, and that emotional, there's probably an emotional spectrum. At one end, is may probably unemotional just get on and do if anything happens to me. I actually shared this with my dad the other day, but I, I spoke to my psychologist about it at the time, but Dad, if he doesn't mind me sharing, but he had a triple bypass quadruple bypass earlier this year. So he was very, very close to having a potentially heart attack and had to go in hospital and have open heart surgery. And I remember when he called me or mum called me and told me what was going on and how serious the situation was and what they were going to have to do. I felt nothing. But nothing. There was no emotional response at all. Didn't feel good, bad. Indifferent knows just nothing. And I remember being reflecting on that at the time and thinking what the hell? What why? When something so serious where it felt like it was the first time that you know we could actually lose him. There was just no emotional response whatsoever. And
Stephanie Slater:there's me crying on the bed.
Will Slater:You were crying. It's not even your dad.
Stephanie Slater:Close enough. Do.
Will Slater:I know that I just you know, I felt nothing. It was like, Jesus. That's interesting.
Stephanie Slater:I probably only seen you cry. Twice. Like you cried with Sebastian. I think I can't quite remember Arabella I think he might it was born. Yeah. You cried when he was born. I don't remember Arabella I don't know if you got a bit teary. You definitely cried with Sebastian.
Will Slater:But like it was like, I think that was just because it was such a buildup. It was huge. Arabella was sort of in slice you open and get out of there.
Stephanie Slater:And then when nonyl passed,
Will Slater:they probably think you saw me.
Stephanie Slater:Well, no, I didn't. But you came home and you were like bleary eyed. And I went to pick up
Will Slater:pizza and listen to a Frank Sinatra song in 10 minutes
Stephanie Slater:Yeah, and I think also we're and yeah, so on that spectrum. You're on one and I'm the full other end like I cry at the drop. Have a heart. I'm very emotional. The girls used to laugh at me because even through all these awful relationships I'd been in prior to you, I would still be like, but I love love. And you know, I'm just I'm an eternal optimist. I think I have hope and faith in the good of humanity. And, you know, I get emotional for people like there was this woman in a cafe the other day where you and I, and she, she was on the phone, she was crying, like your friend was sitting opposite her. And I thought, oh, my gosh, she just got some bad news. And she's just, her heart looked like she was breaking, my heart was breaking. And I said, I was like, shikon, like, maybe just by like a chocolate just put on the table, and really hope you're okay. It was just before Christmas, it was just so sad. And I said, I'm the full other end of the spectrum that I feel things so intensely. It's like, it's visceral for me, like I can't even control that it can become overwhelming, it captures in my throat, the tears start to pile up and like, Get your shit together. So I'm like the full other end. And I think there's definitely a healthy balance. I think we're
Will Slater:saying that yours is good. No one is good, yours is better. I think it's about recognizing that we probably need to come closer to the middle. Yeah. And I think that's what that's the benefit of us being so different. I have so many ways, we're almost at the opposite ends of the spectrum in just about every facet of our life. But that's
Stephanie Slater:also the product of imagining both one way, yeah, we've never won this. But we're also a product of how we have been raised. Like, my household is a very emotional household. Again, there's no judgement that we are, we just are we feel emotions, we've done it from day one, we would sit around the kitchen, we would talk it out, we scream, cry, do all the things and we would always we'd always come back to each other. But you know, there was there was a lot of emotion in that household, you know, some of it a little bit toxic, some healthy, that kind of thing. So so so emotion to me is very normal and natural.
Will Slater:I would argue that too much for me. You
Stephanie Slater:know? Well, we laugh about you know, the Italian when you first came to my family, it was like, ah, we went to the slider house when it was like everybody talk very calmly and take out to it. And, you know, we've talked about that. So I think the way we've been raised is also just, I
Will Slater:think we've I think in my family, we've just sort of learned to be very stoic about a lot of things. Sort of, you know, a bit of you'll be right. Yeah, I
Stephanie Slater:remember. There's very much that you'll be right.
Will Slater:I remember grandma Raven, you know, the idea of getting a Panadol if you had a headache was absurd. Like, what are you? What are you complaining about? Get on with it. You don't need a Panadol just suck it up. Where
Stephanie Slater:was where you always like mollycoddle. We'd have like, you know, can you use your stomach? We've got some Amy's like, let's do this. And we'd hold and, and, you know, nurture it. Again, not the right or wrong. I don't think that there's this is not laden with judgment. This just is what it is. And I can be like that with Sebastian, you'll be like, you don't need Ben No blood. And I sometimes do that. But equally, I'm like, Yeah, took a bandaid on you. It's a better okay. So, like,
Will Slater:I think that I mean, you had a powerful insight as well. Yeah. Look, yes. If I can't feel loved, I'll be needed. Yes. I always maybe proudly felt that because your ex was like a bit of a project for you. Challenges and you probably went into that thinking, great, I've got a project here, I can fix this guy. And clearly you couldn't. And I probably always felt very proud that when we got together, I wasn't a project as such, I had a few areas to improve, but I didn't feel like I was this, you know, Salvation Army project that needed prepare. But I think last night, I realized that in some way, you felt like there was a project in me because I have used you as a crutch to offload any emotion that I ever needed to feel. And again, subconsciously, but knowing full well that you would be prepared to pick up my baggage for me.
Stephanie Slater:And I think with that insight, like my learning of, if I can't be loved, I'll be needed is that that's my identity, like I know that I can be relied upon. I know that I can serve people, fulfill them, make them happy. Carry out when it's too much for you. I do that. Well, that's why I got into teaching, you know, mental health, psychology, all that kind of thing, because I'm, yeah, and I think I would do that for yourself. That just don't always do it for myself. Yeah. But I think that, but it's really interesting because you saying, you know, subconsciously, it's almost like to me to then hold that for you. And Esther Perel talks about how you often find a partner who can, who is the part of you that you're unable to recognize in yourself like you don't really so you have this old sense of autonomy and independence and striving for whatever, whatever, whatever. And I don't necessarily acknowledge that about myself or say explicitly, I want that, but you have that and so, and for me, I have this whole emotional thing. And you don't want to identify that in yourself or acknowledge that in yourself. So it's in me and so it's this thing that you do with your partner, where you tend to choose someone who reflects something in you that you actually aren't uncovering or acknowledging or, you know. So I think that's really interesting, too, because I think we both do that with one another.
Will Slater:And maybe everyone does to some degree. Yeah, maybe part of that is healthy. But there's probably a line. You know, maybe you need a little bit of that in each other. I've I don't think I'm ever gonna flip to be the emotional human being that you are. And I don't think you're ever going to flip to visa, you know, fully, nor do we want that we're just not the goal. The goal is not to do that. But the goal is to take Well, I think the goal and that's probably why last night was so powerful. The goal is to first recognize and understand and I believe you I shared with you last night, but I have heard you, I've listened to you tell me this stuff over and over and over again. I've not been able to for whatever reason he you are understand you, despite giving you lip service and saying yeah, I get it. Y'all work on my emotions. Yeah, no, I understand. Yeah, no, you're overwhelmed out here. I hear you say that. But I didn't fucking get it at all. Until last night, when I finally realized I was like, Holy shit, I was like this epiphany of how have you missed this for so long?
Stephanie Slater:And I think for me, I felt for the first time in a long time, Truly, truly, truly heard. Like, I really, like wow. And I actually didn't do a lot of talking in that time it was you were doing sort of all talking. And you were using the analogy of the luggage and all that kind of thing. And I was like, oh my god, he gets it. And even we were saying, jokingly, but true. That, you know, even if I leave for an hour, two hours, three hours a night, I don't even give you the bags, I just put the door and say, I promise I'll get it. As soon as I'm back. I'm just I just need a minute to rest my arms, like let me just pop them down. You don't have to take it. You don't have to take it. And you don't. And then I come back and I pick them back up. And I'm like, right, I'm back in. And so even you getting that that I'm not even asking you to take them. I'm just like, can I just put them down for a sec? Like I'm just, I'm getting a bit weary, like my arms are hurting. And I then come back and I feel like okay, cool. Yep, I've stretched them out. And I'm good. Like, but actually that's not serving anyone. Because we also talked about I shared with Will, something I've never said aloud to anyone. podcast or global podcast, but and it's not I'm not manifest, I'm not putting out to the universe, nothing. But I do have this fear that I'm going to get sick or something and not in a hypochondriac way, like, Oh, I've cut myself and like not that but just, I feel so exhausted. That I don't know. And I think that the miscarriages were part of that, you know, as well. But I do think that and we sort of said, if if we don't put a stop to it, the universe will stop me. For us, like the universe will stop it for us. And so this is from stress, stress on the body stress on the heart stress on the mind, stress on the soul.
Will Slater:And imagine what you would feel if you imagine what your life would look like, if even if I didn't take your bags, or Sebastian's or Arabella is blood just picked up my own fucking bag, just carried my own shit. Not even all of it was carried 50% of my own bags, you would not know you would not know yourself, then imagine if I was able to take a little bit of yours. And a little bit of Sebastian's and a little bit of our bellows. And let's not get carried away like 10% of each like that's I don't want to set the wrong expectation.
Stephanie Slater:But we did say it's that sharing. It's like, I think in all relationships, you know, the pendulum swings. So sometimes you carry more, sometimes you carry less because the other person can carry more. And
Will Slater:I think the pendulum swinging and
Stephanie Slater:I think it's just a really Yeah, I mean, I am so appreciative of last night in the conversation and where we're at now. And my hopes are that we both with this awareness, because trust me, we're making it very much about your learnings. And me being like a victim almost. And it's not in that way. But there's a lot of stuff I have to do. Like, I have to work on my explosiveness, my ability to express myself in a calm, practical way that actually is a way for me to ask for help without being defensive in the way I ask for help. Because I think my version of asking for help is getting upset that you're not helping. It's not actually asking, it's like the wanting of you to do the thing and you don't do it and therefore, but I haven't actually asked, that's like, oh, you know, whether it's passive aggressive or whatever it is, it's just not practical. It's not, it's not constructive. So I need to be good with that rather than enable all the other stuff. And because I think the other part of that also is there's a bit of fear for me in that if I give over baggage, I hand that over to you and I am lighter and I oh fuck it up. No Wow. Probably not probably you will probably I would be nervous about that. But that's something I've got to work through. But no, it's like, once I give that to you and I have space, I have a free arm. What do I do with it? Like just dangles? Like, what do I do? It's not holding anything. What do you mean? So I have to, you won't feel needed, I have to find who I am again. And that's a scary thing. For me that's like, the road, the road less traveled. That's when I think that, you know, I have to go down that path. And who am i
Will Slater:You don't even know where that road is, let alone having been down it. If I'm not helping someone,
Stephanie Slater:and I'm not being needed by whoever, whether it's my own family as in like growing up. My new family is in you and the kids. If I'm not carrying someone, what the hell am I doing?
Will Slater:You wouldn't know what that felt like, you would have no idea what that felt like. And I have been pushing you and pushing you and pushing you to figure some of that stuff out and to understand yourself and explore yourself. And I'm asking you, what do you want? What do you need out of life? What do you want? You know, which
Stephanie Slater:I find very overwhelming. I'm like, I don't know. Of
Will Slater:course you don't know. I mean, one of our other insights, which is irrelevant to that point is Steph embark on a journey of finding out who you are. But don't be disappointed. You haven't had the space to do that. Until now? How the fuck could you while you're carrying everyone else's bags? You
Stephanie Slater:can tell him about this with the swearing and just emphasis. But yes,
Will Slater:I was getting better at not swearing so much on the podcast. I've gone backwards in this episode. It's called Passion. But yeah, I mean, how could you possibly so yes, there's work for you to do that. I feel like the work that you need to do is dependent on me taking some of that load off you to allow you the space to be able to do that work. How else can you? There isn't there is no capacity within you to even ask that question. Like I asked you. And he's looking at me dumbfounded like, Are you kidding? And I'm up until this point, being getting pissed off going? Yeah. Why don't you spend some time thinking? What are you doing? What do you spend all your time carrying all your friggin bags?
Stephanie Slater:Anyway, it's it's been Yeah, it's been just brilliant. I honestly, I just feel immense gratitude for our relationship. And I haven't felt that in a long time. To be honest, I haven't truly felt grateful for you and I, because I felt like we've been at loggerheads and just two balls in a cage kind of thing. And now, I just feel like, you know, this is who we are. We do work with each other on each other, helping each other supporting, nurturing, holding each other's hand like that is who we are. And that was found again last night. And I think, yeah, I'm just really grateful.
Will Slater:Me too. This will be our last podcast recording for 2020 30. So I think this is a nice way to random.
Stephanie Slater:I thought you enticed me.
Will Slater:I know. I'm not meant to be doing that. But I think we have we've had a big year. And it's nice to people might be listening to this episode going usually just whinging and complaining Ontario the whole time. And now you just share in gratitude with hopefully you've got some insight into what happened. And you have said that 2024 is what what's our theme,
Stephanie Slater:having a theme and it's fun. Fu N fun. And so
Will Slater:our final insight from last night for both of us was celebrate little wins along the way. They are an important part of the joy, fun and happiness that we need.
Stephanie Slater:Yeah. Yep. So we're celebrating it all. On that note. That note, looking
Will Slater:forward to having some fun in 2024. Yay. We're going on holidays tomorrow. And we will be recording on the next episode. The angles and
Stephanie Slater:the BMA corner the true the real the infamous the OG beard.
Will Slater:Thank you for listening in.
Stephanie Slater:Yes, thank you and Happy New Year Old Joe. Hi. Thank you for listening all the way to the end of the baby corner brought to you by Escalade. As a way for us to say thank you. We are offering the first 50 mums a free consult and your first month's product free. All we need to do is visit escalade.co. Schedule a consult with one of our practitioners and enter the promo code. Baby consult. Take your first step towards personalized wellness with Escalade today