Tune in for a very special episode with our marriage counsellor!
In Australia, approximately 50% of marriages and de facto relationships break down. Why are our relationships struggling so much? And what can we do to fix it? Lucia is a Psychotherapist and Sex Therapist. She is trained in Specialist Couple Therapy, Emotion Focused Therapy and Sexological Bodywork.
On today's episode you can expect to learn about the 4 different attachment styles and how they affect our relationships, how to overcome conflict when both partners activate their stress response, what constitutes good communication in a relationship and why we all struggle with it, what a healthy sex life looks like, and last but not least, how often we should be having sex.
Lucia shares invaluable wisdom so grab a notebook and tune in. Even better, grab your partner and listen to it together!
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Head to askle.co now and use the code at the end of the episode to access a free consult & your first month's product free!
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Tune in for a very special episode with our marriage counsellor!
In Australia, approximately 50% of marriages and de facto relationships break down. Why are our relationships struggling so much? And what can we do to fix it? Lucia is a Psychotherapist and Sex Therapist. She is trained in Specialist Couple Therapy, Emotion Focused Therapy and Sexological Bodywork.
On today's episode you can expect to learn about the 4 different attachment styles and how they affect our relationships, how to overcome conflict when both partners activate their stress response, what constitutes good communication in a relationship and why we all struggle with it, what a healthy sex life looks like, and last but not least, how often we should be having sex.
Lucia shares invaluable wisdom so grab a notebook and tune in. Even better, grab your partner and listen to it together!
Exclusive offer
Head to askle.co now and use the code at the end of the episode to access a free consult & your first month's product free!
Follow us
B&B Corner Instagram
Asklé Instagram
Stephanie Instagram
Will Instagram
Get in touch
info@askle.co
And hello, hello. Welcome to today's episode of The BNB corner with a very special guest lucha de tante. In Australia, approximately 50% of marriages and de facto relationships break down. Why are our relationships struggling so much? And what can we do to fix it? Lou Chia is a psychotherapist and sex therapist. She is trained in specialist couples therapy, emotion focused therapy and sex illogical body work, and she's very good at what she does. How do I know this? Well, she just so happens to be our marriage counselor. On today's episode, you can expect to learn about the four different attachment styles and how they affect our relationships. How to Overcome conflict when both partners activate their stress response? What constitutes good communication in a relationship and why we all struggle with it. What a healthy sex life looks like. And last but not least, how often we should be having sex. Bucha shares invaluable wisdom so grab a notebook and tune in even better. Grab your partner and listen to it together. Enjoy the show.
Stephanie Slater:Hey, listeners before we jump into today's episode of the b&b corner, a quick shout out to our startup ask Lee. If you're a mom looking for personalized nutrition that fits into your busy life. Is it escalade.co Today, and stay tuned until the end for an exclusive offer just for our listeners. Hello, welcome to the baby Florida. Welcome. Are we so called the baby on now forget?
Unknown:Well, yeah, we very much.
Stephanie Slater:We have a very exciting guest today. That was a little drumroll. I feel like everyone who knows us who's in our intimate circle friends and family. No Lucha. And it's like Madonna. You don't even need a surname we just looked at so far. So everyone knows you
Unknown:grade celebrity or sat in the chair. But you're you're definitely in there. So call her a decode celebrity. Well, you're a celebrity. Not you're not Brad Pitt not afraid. You're a celebrity. Lena jolly the celebrity still your celebrity now household counselor. Celebrity? Yeah. Yeah. And
Stephanie Slater:so what is your title? So your relationship counselor? So
Unknown:yeah, so I'm a individual and couples therapist and sixth therapist?
Stephanie Slater:Yes. Okay. Yes, it? I remember when we first found Lucha, and we'll said, okay, so I found a couple's counselor for us. She's also a sex therapist. And I was like, Of course you do. Of course, you found someone who's also a sex therapist. But we've probably done how many a set of slides were primary sessions, or were
Unknown:you ever totally riff? I mean, at least 15. But yeah, I feel like we've I was gonna say nearly, probably four or five months at least, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And, and we only really started talking about sex. In the last probably, that eerie, like more of this monthly, it's true.
Stephanie Slater:And I think that's just really important, I guess, for people who are considering seeing a therapist, and if there is x therapists or whatever it might be, because I was very hesitant with that. But if you find the right therapist, which you are right to her office, it was not that way. Like I didn't feel overwhelmed, or I wasn't scared. I wasn't like, so let's talk about sex. Do you like sex? Was it now at all? So I think even though you have that title, that was never the focus from day one and
Unknown:not alone? Yeah, well, because it's, you know, it's obviously really important. emotional intimacy is that thing that is the foundation, you know, and often what plays out in that emotional space? Sorry, is is sort of what transpires in the, in the bedroom. So sometimes six is actually just the symptom of, of, you know, some disconnect emotionally, you know, or will not being able to sort of feel connected or, yeah, having that, that sense of, you know, feeling really seen. Yeah, that's really, my approach is to look at that first, and work out what's happening in that in that emotional space between you guys. You know, it's just what we did.
Will Slater:I always remember the first time that we spoke, I think we spoke over the phone. And you asked me like, what's going on for you guys? Like almost why you coming to see me? And I remember saying, Oh, we're doing really well. Like, it's really just preventative. Like, we don't have any problems going on. Like, we're just trying to, you know, make sure we're on the right track.
Unknown:And then we get into the session that was like, Oh, holy shit, like is falling apart. Can you help us? You know, that's actually you know, that's also true. We'll though you guys do have an amazing ability to, you know, really commit, you know, you're very committed, and there's a lot of willingness to really look at what's playing out You know, lots of people, like can be really hard or it's hard to take, you know, that step back, and to sort of say, Okay, what what am I doing here? What's mine? You know, and that's something you guys credit to both because, you know, you want to understand, and you want to show up differently. I really beautiful to see.
Stephanie Slater:I think it's so interesting though, because I know when I'm in a session with you, I feel really comfortable and safe. And, and so I can take on things and I can reflect on myself and I can really, but then sometimes in the move, not sometimes a lot of the time in the moment, I just find it so hard to consider what I'm doing that's contributing to that thing. Yeah. And obviously, that's, you know, when you reflect, it's always everything's easier in hindsight. But that's something that in the moment in the therapy session with you, I'm going Yeah, well, I hear you and I can understand, and we have these conversations, and I hear what you're saying. I'm like, yep, yep, yep. But then sometimes it's
Unknown:like, the drive home.
Stephanie Slater:Or I drive there is the fighting the drive home, we're like, we're so glad we just had that session. It was so good. But I think sometimes, is that something that you see with individuals and couples that there's this willingness to reflect in the moment, but it can be really hard to translate that into them the day to day?
Unknown:Absolutely, yeah. Because I mean, we get we get back into our pattern, or, you know, we get triggers. And so when we get triggered, we're flooded with stress hormones, you know, so we're going in fight flight freeze. And it's so much harder to catch yourselves in that moment. You know, that takes practice. So a guest in our session, obviously, you know, we're trying to just sort of slow things down, you know, part of tiny, sit in the here and now with what's happening. You know, yes, you do that? Well. Yeah, thank you. Well, you know, it's, it's, that's the beautiful work, though, isn't and trying to really sit with, what are you noticing? And, you know, where's that happening for you and your body? And what's the story that lives there? You know, what do we tell ourselves? And often, that's what we start projecting. And then we create this false narrative that the other person's sort of, you know, intentionally somehow China make us feel less than or, you know, I was, so I've lost the thread. That's okay. That's good. I don't even know what I am. Why
Will Slater:do you? What, what do you say is the main impetus for people coming to see you? Yeah, especially couples, like what? What rays? Do they usually give? Is there a can? Is there any commonality? Yeah,
Unknown:absolutely. And it's mostly always around communication. Yeah, the ways we, you know, turn to each other or turn away, actually, mostly, when we're, you know, in reactivity, where we're behaving in ways that are really protective, you know, so, so it can, it can be a more like a, no common pattern is defend and attack, you know, someone will go into attack mode, which can sound a bit like, you know, the, the blaming, or the being more critical, you know, sort of really seeing all the all the things that the person isn't doing, you know, and so, of course, the other partner will receive that, and then going to defend in a certain really common pattern, or, you know, attack and attack isn't another way, we tend to protect ourselves when we're feeling, you know, really misunderstood. So, yeah, I think communication is, is really the core thing that needs to be really sort of mapped out between a couple because there's often that relational pattern that just, you know, becomes the dynamic, it becomes the thing that keeps two people really unhappy. Right.
Will Slater:I think that's probably been the surprising thing that I've noticed throughout sessions and time together is that you feel like every fight or disagreement is a unique situation or circumstance, because we are because the topic that you typically arguing about is a, you know, is a unique topic, but it always tends to be and I think what we've learned is that it's the same backstory, it's the same one or two things that we're both bringing to every single disagreement. It's amazing, which is both makes you feel like well, if I can just resolve that, then that will help but yeah, is that is that common? And people?
Unknown:Absolutely, Dan Yep. Yep. And, in a way, it's kind of relieving to know, oh, there's gonna be some core themes. You know, no, that's not a whole mirror. Add issues, it's actually always we'll come back to some of those core fundamental vulnerabilities that we have. You know, and, and that's the beauty. Because when we can make sense of it, it's going to relate to our past, you know, it's always going to be about the things we learned from a very young age.
Stephanie Slater:I was going to just ask that as you were speaking, and I was thinking, Do you think that everything stems from childhood? Like, in the end? Is it mostly childhood?
Unknown:It's so cliche, isn't it? Yeah. But it's absolutely. In my clinical experience. I'm always, you know, I guess, warmed, or whatever the word is reaffirmed that, yeah, it does, it relates back to, you know, what we learned. So, you know, Chris, we know, survival, when we're little is the most important thing. You know, and so, our survival is dependent on our caregivers. And so we'll do whatever it takes to be attached to them, you know, to have them love us. Because that's our survival. We are wired for, you know, needing others. I mean, we can't live in isolation. So we'll then adapt to, you know, however, we're responded to so, you know, there's, there's, you know, the attachment science, which is a lot of what I look at uniqueness in couples therapy. And that is sort of the understanding that there's particular attachment styles, depending on, you know, the, the ways we were cared for. Yeah. And what are those styles, they eat, and Hannah had names, you know, sometimes I struggle with sort of liking the names, but, um, there's, there's four, you know, so there's a secure attachment style, which probably, I wouldn't see people coming to, you know, have couples therapy, if they're securely attached in each
Will Slater:other, or from the childhood experience, if they, they're too good. People who come to therapy haven't experienced secure attachment. Typically,
Unknown:typically. Because when you do have that sense of feeling secure, you're more likely to be able to ask for what you want, or, you know, show up in ways that aren't so defensive or fear based, you know, there's going to be more of an ease.
Stephanie Slater:I remember when I was teaching psychology and had to teach the attachment styles. And I remember we secure one of the examples from the textbook, you know, was a baby in a room and if the mum walked away, and the baby was okay, and in screwed, I mean, scream for a little bit, but then was okay. And then when the mum came back, it's because they knew that the mum would, they could leave, but they knew the mum would always come back. Yeah. And just thinking about my own experience. So because I think you'll go into this, but I think you were saying mine's an anxious attachment. And so is it because one of my caregivers, my dad never came back. And so it creates an Faust so you can't either No, and mum was secure. Is that? Yeah, or there's
Unknown:certain it's, it's kind of, um, maybe also, what's the word, you know, subtle, because it's not always, you know, it's more, so the anxious attachment style is more where you have caregivers that aren't predictable, you know, they're not, they're not always reliable. So they're not always available for you. So you get this sense of, you know, feeling panics, you know, not not knowing if they're going to, you know, be able to sort of hold you emotionally, or they're going to, you know, sometimes be there and other times just ignore you or be preoccupied so, it creates this sense of, I guess neediness or or feeling quite anxious, about, you know, whether you're going to be cared for in the ways you need to be. So, yeah, having obviously your dad who would have been, you know, distant was any non existent list. It's a very polite way. Yeah, that's right. filos Yeah,
Stephanie Slater:yeah. So there's so there's secure boot. Would you say that secure is the gold standard, though, because sometimes you can't help but go, Oh, my God, I don't have secure attachment. Does that make me
Unknown:No, I mean, look, you know, it's, it's what couples therapy tries to do, trying to you know, help you guys or people create a more secure bond with each other, you know, ways that you know, okay, that person is there for me. They have my back. You know, we we feel like we've visit sense of insecurity. And we're not sort of seeing the other person as the enemy.
Stephanie Slater:Yep. Because that attachment style with your parent then translates into the attachment almost that you have with your partner. And so yeah, that's a way Yeah, that's
Unknown:right becomes your template. And, you know, that's a template for love what you've learned, you know, that still working model? You know that then so yeah, well always show up in your adult relationships. But we can have different attachment styles with different people allows well, so it's, you know, some you might feel with your friends or a particular friend, you might feel a bit more securely attached or a bit more avoidant Lee attached and, you know, like, they do mirror other people as well. Wow, I didn't
Stephanie Slater:realize that. That's, like, quite cool. Anyway, I keep interrupting site is secure, there's anxious. Yep. And
Unknown:there's one that's called, and I'm looking at weird when, you know, more sort of dismissive, avoidant and just terrible term. But it's, it looks more like, you know, when we've had caregivers that either were overbearing, you know, or they were completely just dismissive of us, you know, or we felt neglected, we're more likely and, you know, once again, that's not always the case, but we are more likely to be a bit more detached, a bit more sort of withdrawn or self reliant. You know, we turned to like, you know, out looking after ourselves as opposed to connecting. And is that something that was an important strategies, particularly if you're feeling suffocated by a parent, or you're feeling that they're just not there? So why would you turn to anyone, you know, it's safer. It's a safer survival strategy to just, you know, either focus on meeting your own needs, or actually just checking out, you know, disconnecting from needs. To, like me would say, I do both of those. I was just gonna say, would you relate to that?
Will Slater:I would, yeah, I would, I think I have, you probably internalized a lot of things. And it was interesting. I had a conversation with dad, not that long ago, probably over summer, I think, actually, where he sort of asked me, I think the question was something like, how, who would you say helped you through your difficult phase? And I said, my answer was, obviously, he helped me, we had quite a significant moment where he took me and we stayed in a hotel room for a few days. And I think that was, that was one of the most important moments of my life that I can recall, and a really transitory moment that changed the trajectory of where I was going. And so I'm eternally grateful for him for what he did in that moment. But I also said to him, I, I actually credit myself for a lot of the changes that I made, because I feel like I was the one who did it, I was the one who took responsibility for what was going on. A lot of the memories I have of really dark moments, were me sitting there in isolation, and dealing with it all, by myself. And whether that was reality or not, you know, that may not have been what was actually going on, but that was certainly my experience of it. So yeah, when you say we, you know, we depend on ourselves for our survival. I, I feel that and I think now how that plays out in my life is I'm probably lacks some level of empathy for other people and their experiences. And I have this, you know, hard and fast mindset of, I can endure anything and everything and bring it on, and I'm ready for it. And I'm capable of it, and I'll fight my way through it. But should everyone else? And then that's the downfall, the expectation is, and so should everyone else. I was seeing a psychologist recently, and he said, you know, said to me, do you have this expectation of everyone because that's, that's a pretty hard high bar for people to live up to. I said that I, you know, I try not to, but I probably can't help but feel like, Why can't everyone just be on their own and do their own thing and figure it out for themselves? But like, you're saying that's, that's something that I've sort of either learned or developed internally?
Unknown:Absolutely. Yeah. It's like it's a it's an adaptive strategy or tool.
Stephanie Slater:And you still do that you still like you'll go, you know your trips once a year. They're only once a year, but that whole birthday thing we're doing for, you know, my version of me going away and self care. I'm like, Okay, so do I get like a hotel and a massage and a face how beautiful my gosh type. And Will's is like, in the middle of nowhere with snakes and bloody well, the animals that were coming out of out today there was it was just it was manic. And you were in a one man tent that you hiked over this bush land that that you stayed in a storm. And it was like, it has to be the hardest, most intense, and I've got to have these revelations and, you know, big, big, big, big, but on his own on his own. And that's still what you kind of
Unknown:an endurance, isn't it? It's like, enduring? Yeah, absolutely. I want to take you to the wreck to figure that out in about five minutes. Well, that room, it's often quite, you know, it's something you can see. With that, you know, obviously, the, the skilled eye, because that's what I'm looking for. And but yeah, I would have picked that up. But not the, you know, you're not, you're not a hard, fast. I mean, you're not just that we're on seven, so I was complimenting you at coffee this morning, you were just live on it. And only know you have such a desire to want to, you know, really do everything you can to show up on and to be your best. And for you guys. Like, uh, you know, you want to really work at knowing what gets in the way. You know, and that's quite different to you know, someone who is predominantly dismissive, you know, because they, they will more likely sort of going to flee, you know, they'll they'll, they'll sort of become more distance or withdrawn or they shut down with Trelease. So, you know, you don't allow yourself to do that.
Will Slater:I guess it's not, it's not all of who you are, is it but it's probably more of a leniency
Unknown:and leniency it's a good way of talking about it. And it's definitely what we do when we're triggers. Yeah. When when we're having a fear of sports, when there's some perceived emotional threat, then we'll start behaving in these ways. Yeah, I think that's definitely true. Both of us. All of us. Yes. Okay. All recent, they
Stephanie Slater:made a haha. But I think that's really interesting. Because sometimes when we've had a big blow up or a fight or whatever, and because I do feel like when it's that trigger, when it does feel like that emotional threat, yeah, I become this version of myself that then in retrospect, I think, Oh, why did I let it get so big? And so if I'm, Why could it become so visceral or especially in the lead up to my period, which we've talked about, and I really love what you shared, which I've already talked about, but you shared about with PMS and the explosiveness or, well, actually, would you mind sharing what your thoughts are on? Yeah, as I said, I'm crazy. I'm explosive. Yeah, I'm so yelling and data. Yeah,
Unknown:well, I think, you know, often, this is something that we've probably lost touch with, you know, you know, modern culture and, you know, sort of having to always been do mode, but I think, you know, women would go into the red tent. And that was a time of, you know, amazing insight and wisdom and foresight, and they would no then sort of come out and talk about, you know, sort of what, what needed to happen. So, I think in some ways, it felt like for you, Steph, it was trying to sort of let you know, things that may be, you know, tired to listen to at times, because we're in busy mode. You know, so I felt like it was time to let you know, the importance of you know, that that party that might struggle to make it about you, you know, yeah, to think about everyone else.
Stephanie Slater:And I think a lot of women can attest to that. I'll relate to that. Lady, that feeling of Yeah, how do you put yourself first and then we can easily blame it on something like PMS. Oh, you know, and I think in society, it's always been Oh, you're getting your period and it was yeah, I remember in high school it was like, they take your on your rags like it. Oh, my God. Full Armor. Yeah, gosh. But you know, we'd always it would be used as an excuse, but also Yeah, a way to justify a woman's crazy behavior.
Unknown:Yeah, that's fine. It was just really sad, isn't it? Absolutely. I
Stephanie Slater:mean, the word of hysteria. I remember learning that that came from women.
Unknown:Yeah. Women somehow you know, being crazy. Yeah. You know, do you first
Stephanie Slater:Yeah, you'd be diagnosed with hysteria and and then that was like you had to be in bed and and this is like back in the Middle Ages or whatever. Yeah. So I think we were
Will Slater:the term on your eyes came from because I that's what they Previously women previously used before.
Unknown:Yeah, that is what are you okay? Clothing
Will Slater:tampon was invented. But I actually think that's a very interesting story. I'm fascinated by the, the inventor of the tampon, who was
Unknown:tickled, sorry Gan teacup? Who
Will Slater:was who was a man, funnily enough, of course,
Unknown:but like they all went,
Will Slater:which I think is the obvious answer is, of course, it was a mare. But it's actually quite a beautiful story because he saw the challenges that his wife was going through. And he was a, he was medically trained. And he watched his wife month in month out deal with this, and go through so much trouble because there was nothing there to support them. And so He then spent a number of years of his life trying to find a better solution for it. And he was, he was denigrated and abused. And he went through a lot of traumatic experiences to try and invent something to support his wife. Because in those days, it was you know, what the hell are you doing? And he ended up in reading sample and so I think it's, it is an interesting story, despite it being a man, but well, he had
Unknown:true intentions. He did flatly he had good intentions. That liberating. So what's the fourth one? The first one, so it's okay. Yep. So it's, it's, you know, probably less common, but it's hold disorganized. And often that's sort of trauma, extreme trauma. So if you're having if you had a caregiver, that was the source of immense pain, but also on the other hand, you know, you experienced closeness so so it was just volatile thing, just, you know, you can't you can't feel safe at all, you know, you just your audience, you just don't know if they're going to attack you, abuse you or hurt you, or they're going to be loving, you know, so, it creates a very disorganized sense of you know, what safety is Yeah, which is quite sad. But, you know, we can all we can rewire our brains we know that which is amazing.
Will Slater:So, what can people do if they have a sense of maybe which attachment style they have based on the explanation that you give them can identify in their partner or you know, maybe the tool of them having a conversation after listening to this and consents which which sort of category they fit in? What would be what would be the things that they can actually practically do about that to try to understand it and work with it?
Unknown:LSA Lucha found Silla chi chair is still detailed and alert, except don't book or out Vinita swords. Okay. I think, you know, everything starts with awareness. You know, because I'm in the saying is what what we don't own owns us. So if we, you know, you have to be able to first start to connect to you know, what, what is it that I experience in these moments that really scares me? Or that I start believing? You know, and, and, you know, there's often things around if feeling afraid of being abandoned or rejected, or somehow, you know, I'm not good enough, I'm not up to scratch, or, I keep getting it wrong. You know, I'm, it's, it's my fault. I'm, you know, I'm just flawed so that there's going to be those core vulnerabilities that we learned a long time ago that you know, some of us just aren't really aware of so taking some time to really Yeah, I guess, I guess individual therapy or couples therapy or just starting to be a bit more curious about you know, what your internal world is, I guess. So I'm just trying to think of it more about how to make that a bit easier because it's, it's a journey isn't it?
Stephanie Slater:And it's hard I think because she's me I was just thinking as you're saying that like what other way I can be and in light of that anxious attachment style, so when Will and I fight I feel like it's like this layer. So I have this brick wall and that's my attachment style. So then when I'm triggered I go into push away. Yeah, as I don't need you. But if that attachment style, I can further break it down. What I truly need in that moment is hold me hug me loves me equally. Yeah. And it's sometimes I have this experience where and maybe it's the least awareness because I'm becoming more aware that the voice is getting a little bit louder. That's like actually You just want him to hold you. Stop, stop, stop. You just want him to hold you. You're pushing him away around. Oh, but still the ingrained childhood feeling is still louder, where it's just now I don't need you around. Yeah. And then when he does go away, because I've bloody pushed him, and then sit there going, I feel almost paralyzed. And I just want to be held. And I'm like, now No one's here. See? And then it's like reaffirmed? Yeah. And is that what happens? We reaffirm errs without, absolutely.
Unknown:We're looking out for you know, that confirmation bias, like we actually, you know, our, our narrative is becomes our reality, which is really sad. But But then again, you know, when you get an opportunity to understand, wow, you know, here's this belief I hold, where the hell does that comes from? When did I first learned this? You know, that's when we start joining the dots. And that's when you sort of have the sense of a case for that little meeting. You know, that's, that's a little less, that's what we liked. And it's dinner might have felt true once upon a time, but it doesn't have to be the truth. No. And so yeah. So it's like, being vulnerable, isn't it? And it feels so hard. It's bloody hard to really hard. Yeah. But it's, it's the glue. It's actually that's intimacy. Yeah, you know, and that's what the word is into me, you see, you know, it's that's what it is, like, really, really, you know, feeling seen, felt held? Um, that's pretty scary, isn't it? If we haven't come from, you know, those experiences in our younger life? Yeah, of course, we're going to push back and, and, you know, imagine all these things that, you know, all these reasons why it's not possible.
Will Slater:And how does a hypothetical, hypothetical person Esmond support a hypothetical wife? Who writes, In that,
Unknown:I was like, what I've just said that I did all that. Well, well, I, you know, you have said in our sessions, how you're trying really hard. Really hard, but not my case, days, it is very hard for you to wheel so you run by sheer lead time. But I out on a date, on a Friday night, not well, and I out on a date, live shout outs and a date. And I did a text from will at 10 o'clock at night on a Friday saying, you know, it was really just you wanting to not go back into old pattern, you know, you really wanting to do things differently, and just feeling a bit lost in that moment. That was was an SOS?
Stephanie Slater:Right. But I think where do you like? I mean, we can laugh now. It felt very traumatic at the moment. But when you like, hi, Alicia, like, sorry to visit, you know.
Unknown:keep busy. I don't think you asked for her to like call you or anything. What are What did you just think I said, when's the next level of what you for in the next half an hour? Later on? It was that you were on a date? On a date? You know, it was? Yeah, I think I responded. And clearly, I knew you must have been feeling distressed or really wanting to do something different in that moment. You
Will Slater:Oh, that's exactly what I was. I guess because like you said before, it's the same pattern. You see the same things. And I know when we can get to me afterwards. But I know I can see when Stephanie's triggered and I can it's like, we're going down a you know, there's what's the the waterslide I'm thinking of it the Rosebud swimming pool that Sebastian loves going down. You're at the top of this. There's just there's only one way down and down going into that and there seems to be no way of preventing that. Yeah. And seems to be your right seems to be I'm sure that's not the reality. But what I guess I'm still trying to figure that out. What is the what's the move? What's the move? What's the solution? Because you've got one solution.
Unknown:It's too good to be, you know, there's there's good reasons and, you know, positive things about being Felisa. They
Will Slater:sometimes being present and validating is important, so, I'm coming to
Unknown:ya. So, I mean, yeah, it's it's like that crucial moment, isn't it and happened so fast because we're going into reactivity. You don't see you're starting to get activated. cuz stiffs activated and, you know, and so you might be sort of panicking or are starting to amend what happens for you and you start to feel
Will Slater:suddenly the stress comes on. Yeah, certainly starting to feel stressed. Yeah. Probably because of my way, I tend to shut down and internalize a little bit more. And then I actively think, no, hang on, just you need to do something here.
Unknown:Yeah. So what that thing beautiful. So you, you start to come back to China, you know, come into your prefrontal cortex, like naming, you name it to tame it, say, you know, the fact that you're going, Okay, hang on a minute. What's happening here, you know, pausing taking a moment. You know, that's, that's downregulating. That's helping the nervous system to come. You know, and then you can have more of this higher order thinking. So, yeah, I mean, things like that. And not personalizing. So, you saying, okay, so Steph is having a moment something's going on for her. Not about me, or something's happening for her. It doesn't have to be about me. And that's such a hard thing to do. But yeah, yeah. So so because that's what we do. You know, we all do the blaming, you know, we all and, and I'm responsible for that, too. When we do a lot of the, it's, you know, the language is often around you look, when you don't respect me, or you don't care or you, you know, said that you did that thing. So of course, it's hard not to go into defense, because that's attack, you know. And it's, it's normal, it's what we do. And but pausing having that moment, to collect yourselves. And then yeah, you know, it's okay to repair, it's okay to say, Hang on a minute, I know, I just did that thing that I do, where I go into blame, or, you know, I'm out, just, let's just stop for a second. You know, that that creates, you know, the possibility for change, making something different. sigh and
Will Slater:I think that's what we try as what we try to do to just pause and yeah, take a take a check on what's going on could
Unknown:check, even taking a breath, you know, that that's a breath of presence of that, you know, the helping stop the production of cortisol and adrenaline, which gets us stuck. Because we, you know, because that's the fear response. Nurse, it's that, you know, neuroscience of you trying to actually help your, your body respond in a way that's, that's about the harm. I guess, feeling centered again. So, so yeah, so stiff? And uh, no, it's not that you do this. It's exactly that if you feel like you're being maybe told, this is what you're not doing or this is what you did is and you mentioned something like, what a white do how do I respond, does it Yeah. So sometimes, just repeating record you've heard you know, that active listening you know, why are you laughing at Mr. Funny? Because
Stephanie Slater:you do try you know, I'm reflecting and I'm thinking and I think you and I probably both have in our head extreme moments, because I was going to there and I was starting to feel a bit guilty. I'm like, Oh, you're really good at that. And I just go explosive and done it. But I'm like, No, hang on a minute. Sometimes, but I wouldn't argue that that's how we always fight I don't think those explosive moments around norm and I think that I do use the language of blame. Like I think that it's
Unknown:it's not just you Yeah,
Stephanie Slater:but I think you and it actually pisses me off in the moment so I need to find a way to be better with this. But well, we'll say he'll use inclusive language he'll say, you know, we need to find a better way for us to donor and I get really like I don't know I just take that I just It irritates me I think no because you bloody did that don't weigh us and make it what you're trying to I know you're trying to take me but you're using way to sound smart and be over or like you're so above this and because I don't say we and so I it's like trying to but I think what you do do is you do pause you do think and you are really trying hard to do what Lucha does with me in those sessions which you is actively listen, validate. It's, I like now I say yes, I know that I see that I appreciate it in the moment when I met, I've just gone. And I feel this and I feel it. I'm doing so. And then I get, I can see that you're feeling really overwhelmed that it must be hard. I'm like, Oh, shut up with your script is great. Like, it's yeah, he says the environment. And I think stop. He's trying. He's trying again, it's that little voice, but then the bigger voice is going. They just crash anyway, even more. And so yeah,
Unknown:it's tricky, isn't it? So we are trying, maybe we're doomed?
Stephanie Slater:Ah, hardly. No. I've also though, appreciate what Lucci has said to us personally, but also in there in this conversation, that it's how you repair. And you've often said to us, it's not about the number of eruptions, it's about how you repair after those eruptions. And I think, testament to us that we're standing here, we clearly know how to repair. And that is very,
Unknown:very good about. Thank you really good.
Stephanie Slater:Yeah, and I think there's a lot of couples who you've said a lot of great little nuggets, like he said, If what do you say if it if you don't own it, it owns you? Yeah, I think that's so powerful. Because we're on this journey to trying of trying to acknowledge what's going on in us and owning it to then be better. So many people, friends, including your family, they're just they're not even there. It's like, I'm not even going to begin to turn inward and
Unknown:reflect. Yeah, that Todd, to hard work. And, you know, that's what, you know, good communicators do good communicators will own their emotions. Like, that's the first thing. You know. So really being aware of what's happening for me, what's this? You know, not what are you doing? What's happening for me inside me? What? What's going on for me? You know, that's the first thing. Does that always have to be in the moment? Well, it would help. Because I'm like, well, then I don't think I'm the best. But remember it you know, it's such a beautiful way of disagreeing. I would normally say Well, no, what are you talking about? Well, it helps. That it's tricky. Like, you know, of course, it's um, yeah, it's been, it's hard to stop and catch ourselves on. Yeah. So yeah, so number one is number being owning, owning your biceps? Yeah. And then number two is being able to show your vulnerability. And that's very different. You know, that's a very different language, very different way of responding. I mean, that's, that's the scary bit. Now, because we, obviously, if, if we're going to be more vulnerable, we're more we're going to feel more exposed. More afraid, perhaps, you know, as this, you know, what if I'm still rejected, and I'm actually being vulnerable?
Stephanie Slater:And is that when our attachment style might come into play? If you've been vulnerable? And maybe it hasn't been met with what you hoped in your head? You thought it would be met with and then
Unknown:potentially, yeah. And you know, we're going to be a bit more sensitive. never notice. So we might miss read something too, because we're vulnerable. Yeah, no, but it is powerful. Takes a lot of courage, actually, to be vulnerable. It's a lot easier to be reactive and defensive and protective. And yeah, but they just things live in nature knee jerk responses, you know, I'm on
Will Slater:the flip side of the fire come Sure. And maybe maybe they don't come through your door but good communicators or couples that, you know, maybe through the work you've done, what is what is the other side look like when they're able to communicate effectively with each other. Today's episode is brought to you by ask Leigh our very own health tech startup that's redefining wellness for moms. If you're trying to juggle everything in life like we are, and want a simple and easy way to stay on top of your health. This is for you. Imagine a daily scoop of wellness crafted based on your unique health needs and delivered right to your doorstep. Pascaline makes it easy with bespoke supplements tailored to your needs. Ready to transform your health visit ask leo.co and book a brief consult with one of our health practitioners. Stay tuned until the end of this episode for an exclusive offer. Ask les made just for you.
Unknown:It's it's these two things, right? Yeah. And it's also being able to in those moments, choose your words about being able to who, you know, really hold the, the broader sense of, you know, okay, we actually have a shared vision we are, you know, actually not the same thing. You know, my partner isn't against me, we're in this together, you know how, you know, when you keep that in mind, so your language is going to be, you know, much more respectful kind, you know, you're gonna maybe just be aware, you know, coming back to yourself, This is what happens for me not, not the blaming. Because, you know, love requires democracy, and, you know, really is about holding that shared vision, collaboration, respect, understanding, you know, that's what love is? Well,
Stephanie Slater:I think you do that, well, if I can say so myself. I do, I think that you just hearing everything, which is saying, I think that's a strength of yours. I think you're just met with someone who's not necessarily always at the same place, as you. And so what I'm thinking is then, because in our own personal experience, will does a lot of that he, he's uses such respectful language that will doesn't get heightened. Rarely, like, rarely, unless I've pushed her to the edge, but really, you know, really doesn't get heightened, very respectful language, will always say, or will often say, I'm not your enemy, we're in this together, you know, especially when, say, we're talking about a period, it's like, it's you and I, and then it's that thing, and they're like, let's just find a way that you and I can deal with that thing. And I am learning to be vulnerable in that. So even just today, I got my period. And it's like, Yeah, finally, because I've been very emotional. And will will send to me, what do you need today? Like, what can I do for you, and I know this and that and find out, it's like, restaurant and whatever. And I actually said, Just take care of me, give me all the things and love me, and I normally wouldn't be the baby, you know, like this, love me and hold me and nurture me. But I thought that is actually all I want. I just want to
Unknown:listen like you meeting the baby, you know, to, rightly so having things that you need or that are important. Yeah.
Stephanie Slater:Yeah. It's hard to to accept someone taking care of you, when you Yeah, that wasn't have taken care of people. That wasn't
Unknown:your narrative experience, layered by then becoming a mom. I, Laurie? That's right. Exactly. Yeah.
Will Slater:Are there common traits between the husband and the wife that you see? Or I mean, straight to same sex couples, assuming you see as well, but at the other end? does gender play a role in how people interact with each other? Yeah.
Unknown:Look, I guess, if we're generalizing, you know, there are common sort of qualities or aspects, I guess, you know, and that's because of, you know, conditioning as well. You know, what we're taught? So, yeah, often, it is the female that holds that more that relational, mental loads of wanting to, you know, feel like there's that emotional intimacy or, you know, looking after the relationship now, so that, that can be something that's might be more agenda and know, a different mentality. I guess. I'm a solo, right word. And I feel uncomfortable, but it's See, I think there are aspects, isn't there. So without it being sexist. Yeah. It's
Will Slater:not to put anyone in a bucket, obviously, but I think like just hearing you say that I would. My experiences would suggest that the man is typically the one who might be a little bit more. I'm trying to get my words, right. Doesn't matter. Just say then if you say it wrong, is maybe slightly more stoic in those situations or Karma? Maybe is part of it. Yeah. Would that be true? I
Unknown:don't know. I think what's true is I think men are taught also to be very sort of solution. pragmatic, problem solving focused, nice. So they'll sort of tend to look at an issue in a way of how can I fix this? You know, so, it can feel maybe a bit void of emotion sometimes or in our memory, can like give such a sense might look less emotion based was empathetic. Yeah, it was just a It's another way of dealing with a struggle, I guess or neck. Conflict deletion. But yeah, that can be a bit gender, mom.
Will Slater:Yeah, I think maybe not even a relevant way to think about it. But this is I've spoken to a few men who have a similar conversation at home where they they are feeling like their empathy is something that's not a strong suit of this.
Unknown:And, you know, the messaging, you know, you've got to be tough. Yeah, happy. It's, you know, I've had lots of guys say, It's week to week to actually be vulnerable, or show my emotions and I just heard this morning, three quarters of suicide, a men, three quarters is our no suicide rate is males. That's a lot. That's a really, that's got a lot to say about men. Not having that permission or conditioning. To actually like you say, maybe I'm gonna connect to empathy or emotions or vulnerability.
Will Slater:Yeah, I think it's I don't want to go off on a tangent. But I do think it's a, I think it's a somewhat confusing time for a lot of people, but I think as a, as a male, it's a somewhat confusing time to know, how to act or what to be or who the role models are. Because yeah, emotional, do I be strong, too? Is that weak? Is it? Is it not? How do I engage in that sort of idea and, and thinking as a male, because it's, it's always been frowned upon, as you said, and I think, you know, men are trying to figure out how they, how they act within society, and probably, you know, men of my age are probably dealing with a lot of the repercussions of things that men did 5100 200 years ago, and that may not necessarily be true anymore, but there is nothing, it's just a somewhat confusing time.
Unknown:Yeah, that's true. And I think, a liberating time to, in this this a lot more sort of a guess, you know, scope or, you know, permission. Isn't there to also be, you know, all these diverse things, or, you know, not just governed by, you know, those gender roles. Yeah.
Will Slater:How do those, how do those attachment? What would you call them? Attachment? Styles? Yeah. How would they show up in someone's parenting style? Would I typically go the opposite? Or would they go the same
Unknown:way? Yeah. And I Yeah, no, it would be the same. Same. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's obviously what was modeled. You know, it's all that stuff that you learn that just plays out. Um, so, yeah, so I guess Are you wondering a little bit like, in terms of vetted?
Stephanie Slater:I'm sure it's used as a gold standard for sure me, because I know, I can reflect on it easier reflect on someone else and yourself? Because I don't I think, I don't know. Yeah, but I know with you not now, cuz I think you've done so much work with you and Sebastian, but prior, you were quiet. And we'll just use the term even though we don't really like it, but dismissive in that it was like smashing, just get up, get on with it. Don't be Don't be weak, be a man, you know, all that kind of thing. So that seems to resonate with that whole? Yeah, attachment style that we're saying New lean towards? Yeah, they're true. Yeah. Although, again, you've rewired a new view behind that. And you've, I would argue that the way you international now, your style
Will Slater:photo, like it takes a lot of energy, maybe to to make the change so
Unknown:but but that's the goal of couple of therapy, or that's the goal of therapy to to change those. Our attachment style, you know, to to be cut to feel more secure and safe and yeah, and know how to do that in a different way
Will Slater:to is that the primary role do you think of gobble serve me? It's,
Unknown:it's definitely a big component, particularly cuz I'm trained in emotion focus therapy. And that's all about, you know, attachment and bonding. You know, and sort of how as social mammals, what's so important, was way wired for that. Yet, it's, you know, the scariest one of the scariest things to kiss. Feel All. Cipher. Oundle? Yeah. So yeah, it's a big part. Yeah. Yeah.
Will Slater:Because now that we're talking about, we've never had this conversation before. And I, I wasn't aware that this was what we were doing. But now that you now you label it unlike Yeah, of course, this is exactly what we've been working on. And we've obviously been working on it for a long time, but not just not being gold missing, or even aware that attachment styles were a thing or what they were I can, I can now see all the work that we've done retrospectively and think. Now, it makes sense what we were doing and how we're doing it. And obviously, we're still got a long way to go on that journey. But it makes sense that that's what we've been working on. Yeah,
Unknown:it's nice.
Stephanie Slater:And do you think it's something that you should not always but you do with your partner, because sometimes I have moments where I think I it's, it's just a wash it. And my and often like man will think don't, you don't have to carry always the burden. And Mayor, because you'll hear me say I love the podcast, or just when we're talking like, I've just got so much of it is mine, and I really need to work through our stuff. And I've got these layers, and I III, do think that there's still so much value, though, in doing it as a couple, or do you think there's a time when you do individual or?
Unknown:Yeah, that's a good question. I think looks, I think, our all our stuff is in everything's relational. So, you know, it's going to be a lot more acute. When you're in relationship. And, and so, yeah, you know, learning to do that as a couple and hearing each other and knowing sort of, really what's at the core for the other person creates a lot of compassion and empathy for the N, you know, sort of this this vision that oh, you know, actually, it's our wounds. You know, not just yours, but wills, and, you know, so you know, just knowing that that's actually the purpose of relationship to grow. So, I think I think it can be a faster trap, doing it in couples therapy. But then what's true is if you have that space, to just delve a bit more into, you know, your own material. And that's also going to shed more light or, you know, help you to sort of unpack some of that stuff that feels not as clear.
Stephanie Slater:Cut as Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I have just seen so much power in the couples therapy. Like, I think that the sitting with the others emotions and hearing and, and because you you don't interrupt you actually sit in like, that's probably the most that I like, in that time, I am just so about, well, when he's having his moment, like, if we're focusing on will, and really delving into wills stuff, even though sometimes I want to say, say or whatever, I really respect that space and that boundary for him. And I think that that's really powerful, because then I go, Oh, wow, I Yeah, okay, I hear that differently. Whereas if it was an individual, even though we've done some individual, but I think you kind of lose that as well. So absolutely, yeah. Yeah, I think that's huge value in couple.
Unknown:Cuz you miss out on hearing. Oh, actually, you know, that. Let's try a little will. Little stuff, you know, but they're the things that, you know, we experienced in the very young age that are playing that's playing out now.
Will Slater:It's also very liberating to know that it's not. I mean, I'm sure this is not the case all the time. But typically, the issue is not necessarily just between the two of you. As you said, it's more about your attachment styles from when you were little or the little you and that's that's actually, I think, for us, it's allowed us to, again, fight this external battle that's going on knowing that it's not actually anything that we've necessarily done to each other. It's just that this is how we show up because of our experiences that we've had prior to even meeting each other
Unknown:for saying it, isn't it now,
Stephanie Slater:psychologists, and she was on the imperfect that we were talking about, oh my gosh, Lola stone. Yes. And she said and I thought, I can't even picture doing this. And she said it took a lot of work. But she stopped mid fight with her husband and says What age are you right now?
Unknown:That's fantastic. It's brilliant, isn't it? But I could not if it will turn to Me MID RIGHT. I've arrived and then he's like, What are you doing right now? I'd be like, very sad not to hear that. Add as you know, fuck you. Yeah, I'm sounding people.
Stephanie Slater:But isn't it so powerful? I guess? Because it's like, oh, I think I'm being eight year old me and called 12 year old me or yeah, I'll
Will Slater:try that next time we have a little more.
Stephanie Slater:I think it's a good way maybe she was a retrospective thing right now like, I don't think we have that skill set to pause it off in the
Unknown:moment. Yeah. And maybe that, you know, if it's said with the wrong tone, not with this sort of real, you know, kindness, it could be heard the wrong way. And Tony is so important, though, isn't Elyse or important isn't actually the nonverbal communication is the thing that we read a lot more than 10 words at times, you know, so it's just, you know, that, you know, rolling your eyes or turning away or, you know, your lips, sort of going up some some those little cues, will just send that instant message to your brain that you know, which will be you know, that story you hold that belief you hold about yourself. Yeah, or that deadpan? Look, I like that.
Will Slater:Well, I think that's the hardest part because I can, as you were saying before, to pause and get back into your brain and don't have the emotion. I'm doing that in my head, and then the words that come out, I understand that that must be really hard for you. But clearly, my facial expressions, and my body language is how I'm feeling, which is nice.
Unknown:Gotcha. I can Helmut, Would you just shut up? Do you think it sat on? I wonder? Well, if it's also that part of you that wants to get it right.
Will Slater:Definitely wants to get it right. Yeah, I think I'm trying so hard. But often my facial Yeah, often my face gives away that, that you're trying really?
Stephanie Slater:Yeah. And so there's nothing yet robotic? Because I just need, like, am I saying what she needs in this moment? I'm pretty sure that was the thing that I should say to make it better. So I'm going to click there. Now I've stuffed up and I still didn't get it. Right. Yeah. So
Unknown:it's, of course, it could create a stiffness, doesn't it? You know, a rigidity. rigidity is probably a perfect way to do it this way. However, in those moments, you no good today. Good to notice that. So now, what do you want to do with that? Now suppose you know next time you notice yourself? Really, really kind of being rigid? Because you're trying so hard not to get it wrong? What do you want to do? Two and a brief. Do you want to count on a walk away thing?
Stephanie Slater:But yeah, it was interesting. Yesterday, we had probably one as well, on my part. It was a really beautiful moment where I shared my vulnerability. I shared my vulnerabilities a couple days before, but I obviously hadn't said it in a way that either landed with will or was set in a respectful way or, you know, wasn't defensive yesterday, I just truly laid it out in a really vulnerable, emotional way. And their reaction from Will was so authentic. was so sincere. It was so validating. And I was like, oh, that's how you get it. So I think it's just it's interesting. I think your rigidity is probably our responds to my attacking beautiful.
Unknown:Yeah, yeah. My learning. Yep, that's right. You know, because because it's, of course, you're going to be picking up on each other, you know, it's a dance, isn't it? It's, it's something that you've created together. So yeah, it's good to notice that so obviously, you know, something, your tone or whatever it is, is must be still feeling for you. unsafe for
Will Slater:attack and defense. And I'm sure when I'm attacking you feel defensive it's both ways but it's yeah, when you feel you're being attacked, you can't Well for me, I can't help it is
Unknown:bunker down you know, and, and so yeah, of course. And then it's like I've got a you know, what would you say yourself, I've got a cut, I've just got to absorb I've got
Will Slater:well how endure when she's just endure and just, if you can keep standing for long enough this will wash
Unknown:out and I think when I say if I don't if I just repeat these words, if I just say that it must be really hard. Let's be really hard. You need like, you know, the band that was what would Jesus do? Is like what would love to do be who do exactly what legit doesn't it doesn't work? Then you do it in our sessions. And it's perfect. Because what one you know, Steph sharing is obviously also you know, the difference too when you are being vulnerable. Yeah. And obviously you're not going to feel sorry. withheld or no Stephen So at the risk of like, how are we for time? Are we fine?
Will Slater:I just don't have any interest in and out and but I did want to cover one more topic before we wrap up with the risk of making Stephanie very uncomfortable how does this play out intimately?
Unknown:That's fun i bedroom all been through yet
Stephanie Slater:as he said that beautiful line which was that it is it what did you say that sex is a symptom of it? Can you read? It can Yeah, it's actually not necessarily just the bedroom. It's all the other kids. Yeah, it's
Unknown:that, you know, it's that interplay? It's, it's the, you know, the the ways? Yeah, we we sort of don't feel connected, I guess. And that dynamic can often look the same in the bedroom. Not always, sometimes it can flip. So there's a term there's a very common pattern, which is the pursuer withdraw all the you know, demand and distance up most it's, it's like a seesaw, you know, and it creates this push pull. So, that can play out in the bedroom too. Yep. So, did you want to ask me again? No, no, I got lost. I actually forgot what his question wasn't sure. What was Tony? How was it? Oh, yeah. How does it play out?
Will Slater:Yeah. And I would maybe say for us, it's the opposite. Is it?
Stephanie Slater:As in that you are the pursuer? Yeah. We always have like this avoidant, attached, anxious attachment thing that, you know, that's the other way. Hang on.
Unknown:So I don't know, what's definitely. Yeah, I mean, it, it makes sense that, you know, often when it's hard to connect to emotions, that physical intimacy is going to be that place that we experience, you know, a letting go. Maura, you know, vulnerability or closeness. So sometimes it does go hand in hand that, you know, someone who might connect on motions as much will feel like sex becomes that place. Without giving away too much, but this Yeah, have aspects really?
Stephanie Slater:The D, is it also a thing? And maybe I'm, maybe I'm doing this defensively? I don't I don't mean to. But is there also a thing that just felt, and I am generalizing here again, but women and mothers, it's hard to know what you need? Or to take pleasure out of that kind of thing? Or to prioritize that or to lately? Yeah, absolutely.
Unknown:Because, I mean, the focus isn't on you, and your needs. It's about, you know, giving, pleasing, making sure everyone else is okay. And, you know, you're not part of at all you're like, last on the list. But I think what's true is, it's actually also then really hard to know what you need, you know, and so becomes them even difficult in the bedroom to know what you like or want, or be able to ask for it or even commit to it. Yeah, cuz it's just an undeveloped part, not because there's something wrong with you. Just make sense, you know, you're not wasn't part of what felt possible or important.
Stephanie Slater:And even understanding what intimacy is in means and maybe means to you personally, or, but I know, if you say sex, I just feel a little uncomfortable. Like it's intercourse, I get kind of lonely. But there's actually, what I'm trying to learn is just these ways of being intimate that will naturally fall into the bedroom. But, you know, like, you've given us His eye gazing activity, which we still haven't done, much to Will's dismay, and I just, it's like, okay, you know, it's okay to sit there in this vulnerable moment, and to connect in that really intimate way. And sometimes I'm just too tired. And I've just do I have to now explore that. And it just feels like
Unknown:another task. Yeah, yeah. Yep. Well, you know, I guess, when you probably feel like it cups fall, you know, because you're doing all these things. And then, you know, we'd leave pleasure as the last thing on our list. So we don't even think about the importance of making, you know, life. Sort of including pleasure. It's more about achieving or goal orientation or doing not necessarily just the simplicity of means something for pleasure. No, we've talked about that. Yeah, they're just fun, like fun, playful.
Stephanie Slater:I think we Last a lot of that, like our theme for this year was fun. And I don't know that we've met that yet. But I think that, that sense of pleasure, like doing it not to achieve not to
Unknown:tick that thing, but or it's just yeah. Or or this week goal, like, you know the result based and we want to get somewhere with Yes, that's why it's why we're kissing. Yeah, you know, just, there's so much in the moment that if we just stay there, just there's so many subtle sensations that we are under present to, because we're imagining that it's going to have to go in a certain direction or no, there's an expectation.
Will Slater:Definitely, under some broader societal challenges with that as well. And our attention span is so limited now. We're so distracted I, by so many other things, how many? You can imagine 100 years ago, you would, you know, the lights go down? And what are you doing, you're probably going to be in some sort of relational, intimate sort of experience, maybe not intercourse, but you're at least, you might be lying around and cuddling or kissing, whatever. Whereas now it's on Netflix, or I'm on Instagram, and how many couples who just sit down at the end of the night and sit on the same couch, but be so totally disconnected? There's no chance for it? No.
Stephanie Slater:Well, we actually as a result of feeling that we moved our couches around because we have these two separate chairs that face the TV. And we were like, we don't even when we watch TV, we're not even we didn't even put our hand on each other. Like we're so disconnected. So we rotated our couches around. We now sit next to each other and at least we cuddle on the couch. Like I feel like those ones. It's
Unknown:so cool. Yeah, I thought that's, you know, physical intimacy at some connection. Let's tut because we realized
Stephanie Slater:we weren't, we had just gone so far. One way without even being conscious of it. It was like bringing just this one small step. It's like, okay, at least now we can stroke each other's head or put our hand on. We do that, like I even scratch your head. And it's like, I would never have done that.
Will Slater:Okay, sure. We'll do. How, how would you describe for a couple who are, you know, similar situation to us, young kids life is hectic careers, what is? What does a healthy intimacy or six life look like? How just because I think we've, I don't think we've got a good idea of that, and especially with pornography, and everything that's going on people, people don't know what is and isn't healthy. Yeah. Yeah. Do you have a way to describe that? Or?
Unknown:Well, you know, like we mentioned in our last session, it's about being able to talk about things, you know, so, you know, it's, it's creating that space to, to, you know, communicate. And so it's okay to not be having sex, but to not be talking about it. Yeah, if that's like, create just the elephant in the room or this, you know, not not wanting to acknowledge things. So making just starting to talk, trying to talk about, you know, the relationship your sex lives. I mean, I don't know if I gave you that sort of little CEO meeting. You know, we sit down and there's just so like, a little check in you know, fortnightly checking, we ask each other questions, like, you know, do you feel we're spending enough time together? What, what's something that we've done this week that you really appreciate? You know, what can I do for you in the next couple of days? It helps you to feel loved. So other son doesn't have to be what's your band, if I haven't given it in it? I'm gonna link it in the show notes so people can have it. I've got a bodywork stuff to do. I've already got one I work with. But it
Stephanie Slater:doesn't have to be sexual doesn't have to be what's your fantasy? Like it boy
Unknown:and die? No, I mean, but But you know, opening that up on this is also going to be really helpful talking about your sex life. Yeah. And, and sort of, you know, rule, what some of that longing is, or some of the fears, or, you know, even just talking about what you like, and that's really hard to even know that. I say that isn't that hard? That's a lettuce, you know, exploration.
Will Slater:What actually, would you ask each like, granular what would you how would that conversation play out for a couple who haven't had that discussion yet?
Unknown:Yeah. So in terms of, you know, what are the things that turn you on? Or imagine
Will Slater:it's hard to leap straight to, you know, first conversation that sit down, what's your fantasy? That's gonna be a big leap. But what's that sort of gradual wave? I mean, some of the questions that you asked what you've done up we spent enough time together.
Unknown:Yeah, like how, yeah, I like that. Like, how have you felt loved this week? Yep. Yep. And then And then, you know, Christians could be around so what's something that you would really I help you to feel physically sort of close to me this week or know what's something I can do for you this week that, you know, opens you up physically, you know, maybe it's more of that kind of gentle, you know, starting to get a sense so that intimacy, you know, think about sort of going straight to perhaps, you know, sex, I guess, you would scratch my ears, and I can't. I like that. I
Stephanie Slater:think that I for me, personally, and I know even my girlfriend's we talked about that being from an all girls school Catholic school. It's just not something that comes naturally. John feels comfortable. So I think that language already have, yeah, what makes you feel love? What makes you feel what what could I do to make you feel physically closer to me? I think that I could answer. Whereas if you were like, how can I make you feel turned on this week? I'd be
Unknown:like, Whoa, yeah. Well, sometimes it's good to even just talk about those peak moments in the relationship where, like, you felt like, Oh, that was really beautiful that, that time we had sex, all that time, we were, you know, being physically intimate. And talking about that, because it's sharing, you know, a beautiful moment that you had together. But there's also information about what you like, what worked? Why, you know, even though I'm a bit like, what stays in the bedroom who stays in the bit what happened in the bedroom stays in the betrayer. As in as in I'm not sharing it with me, but like, just like, I think talking about it, I'd get like a giddy schoolgirl or be like, okay, yeah, that's beautiful. Okay, got it. We'll see. No, it does stay moist. And that's okay. That's part of it. So it's okay, if I lost it, I suppose.
Will Slater:Yeah. Is, is frequency a factor at all, for couples is a relevant thing to think about, because I think a lot of people get caught up in it. And it's, you know, this amount that amount. And I think there's a lot of unfortunate and unrealistic expectations that people have of not having it every three days, every week, it's it, it's a shoo in, feels like it's the wrong way to think about it, but he's there. How would you guide people through that, if they're stuck in that sort of thinking that
Unknown:that sort of, you know, quantity, not quality type of mentality? I think the barometer should be about pleasure and connection. You know, so, like, are we is, are we experiencing pleasure together? You know, are we like, really enjoying the way we connect? You know, like, it's more about in those moments, feeling like you, there's that level of that just feeling like it's a beautiful space? Not not so much? How often? Yeah, and, and sort of that somehow, an indication of, you know, good sex IVF or successful relationship? Because it's, there's nothing wrong with, you know, stopping during sex, and actually just making it about, you know, sharing, you know, what, sort of all all the, you know, range of emotions not just being turned on.
Will Slater:No, you didn't, I think, I think it's I think it's pertinent to couples who especially start to have a family and realizing that things look different to what they did, pre pre kids, it's like, and to hold on to that frequency as a barometer, or as a benchmark of, you know, it was this, then and it's this Now, therefore, it's worse is, I think, a difficult way to look at it, or just maybe an unreasonable way to look at it, because it doesn't mean that there's no connection. Exactly. connection could be greater. But that's just the wrong metric to use, but because society sort of has this expectation, it I think people get caught up in that. Yeah,
Unknown:yeah. And there is there are going to be, you know, different sex drives at times, you know, someone's going to be showing more sexual and, you know, partner is that they're at their own kind of sort of where they're at with that. So sometimes, yeah, there's going to be that disparity.
Will Slater:You know, I really love what you shared with us to say rather than I want to have sex with you, or we haven't had sex, I miss you.
Unknown:I miss See, you actually shared that. Yeah, that was she asked you that was there were your words. And you said
Will Slater:that are you encouraged us to use that as a different way to talk about it? Hmm.
Unknown:It does hit differently. Does hit differently. Yeah. Cuz then what happens for you? When it hits differently? It feels more about connection. Yeah, yeah. And does it feel like there's that pressure? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it opens you up. And then the rest of history, like it creates that space. For whatever. I
Stephanie Slater:remember, I think you'd come back from? Well, we'll wrap it up. But I think you'd come back from, you're away for a night or something. And you said, I miss you. And I was like, Wait, like, you normally miss me really like you miss meals? Because I was like, I don't know if I'm getting the tone. That was a funny moment on that
Will Slater:was very last question. But how? We've always tried to figure it out amongst ourselves or between ourselves. And I've always tried to say it's not, it's not about the sex, per se, it's not the intercourse. That's the thing. How, how would you help people think about what intimacy in a relationship looks like?
Unknown:Yeah, so like, physical intimacy, or just
Will Slater:maybe it's physical, maybe it's something else. But if, if someone's thinking about their relationship and the the intimacy or the, you know, that they have with their partner, what's a good way to think about it? Um,
Unknown:I think it goes back to those words of feeling seen, selling, you know, like, yeah, the person is really getting you, you know, so you feel seen you feel understood, you feel felt, you know, so that, that, that sense of, are you here with me, you know, you're actually in this in my kind of emotional state? Here, you're not trying to, you know, sort of tell me otherwise, I guess. You have, you know, that that experience of seen felt heard. You know, that connection that ultimately, we just want to feel love to really, don't we, you know, what that experience of truly just feeling like the other person that there and I guess, in the physical realm, their way or says still stand, then obviously, pleasure becomes that, you know, really important sort of byproduct of, you know, feeling at ease, and, you know, relaxed and open and, you know, we can we can be a bit more light and playful, and, you know, we're not sort of trying to protect ourselves. Does that doesn't that's a, that's a better way to think about it. And I think
Stephanie Slater:it's also if, if you're not feeling seen, heard felt, that it's really hard to be light and playful, then because, yeah, so I think and as you said earlier, that into me see, it's that real vulnerability and trust, and then person has you on all of you. Yeah, I
Unknown:think if you can land on that, then the easier to be fully intimate. Absolutely. Yeah. Definitely. Thank you. Thank you for Welcome to your for this. I consider this a session. It's really beautiful to work with you both Oh, really? Is you know, yeah. You've
Will Slater:helped us a lot. So thank you and think
Unknown:about whether we share the cheers detail. I don't know. Where
Will Slater:can people find you if the inspired by this to go and see a couples therapist like you
Unknown:have mine websites, sets? lutea? Baton t.com.au You can obviously get in touch with we'll instead of roadside, yeah, we'll put the website on.
Will Slater:We'll link to everything in the show as well so that people can access but thank you. Thank you for coming in. And thank you for sharing your wisdom with this beautiful
Unknown:work. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Thanks, Joe.
Stephanie Slater:Thank you for listening all the way to the end of the b&b corner, brought to you by ASCII as a way for us to say thank you. We are offering the first 50 months of free consult and your first month's product free. All you need to do is visit escalade.co. Schedule a consult with one of our practitioners and enter the promo code BB consult. Take your first step towards personalized wellness with Escalade today