28 - Dr Miranda Myles - Integrative Naturopath & Clinical Acupuncturist

Dr Miranda is an Integrative Naturopath and Clinical Acupuncturist who has dedicated her life to fertility, IVF support, gynaecology, hormonal and emotional health. Having gone through her own fertility issues, she gets it. She is obsessed with pathology and uses test results to help her patients understand their bodies better. Dr Miranda has also been lecturing in Nutritional Medicine and Nutritional Biochemistry since 2006. By integrating modern science with ancient wisdom, she helps women and their families achieve the best possible outcomes. 

On this episode, you can expect to learn what nutritional medicine is and its powerful affect on our biochemistry; why our health is the greatest gift we can give our children; why unexplained infertility is just lazy medicine; how thyroid antibodies affect conception and postpartum; and why your nutritional medicine must be prescribed. 

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Transcript

Will Slater: 0:00

And hello, hello and welcome to today's episode of The BNB corner with a very special guest askeleen His very own board member and lead practitioner, Dr. Miranda miles. Dr. Miranda is an integrative naturopath and clinical acupuncturist who has dedicated her life to fertility IVF support gynaecology, hormonal and emotional health. She is obsessed with pathology and uses test results to help her patients understand their bodies better. Dr. Miranda has also been lecturing in nutritional medicine and nutritional biochemistry since 2006. By integrating modern science with ancient wisdom, she helps women and their families achieve the best possible outcomes. On today's episode, you can expect to learn what nutritional medicine is, and its powerful effect on our biochemistry, why our health is the greatest gift we can give our children why unexplained infertility is just lazy medicine, how thyroid antibodies affect conception and postpartum and why your nutritional medicine must be prescribed. We learned so much during this wide ranging discussion with Dr. Miranda. So grab a pen and paper and listen back a second time to make sure you don't miss anything. Enjoy.

Stephanie Slater: 1:16

Hey, listeners, before we jump into today's episode of the b&b corner, a quick shout out to our startup ask Lee. If you're a mom looking for personalised nutrition that fits into your busy life, is it escalade.co Today, and stay tuned until the end for an exclusive offer just for our listeners.

Will Slater: 1:35

I think you know a little bit but when we were going around looking for practitioners, for escalate, your name was not only just at the top, but was at the top and underlined and circled and highlighted and stars around it. And we thought out this business, if we can just get somewhere near Miranda, this thing is gonna take off. And I remember when I first told Stephen, I said I rang the receptionist and had this tinted check for this, like Bay Marina. And then we're driving there in the car. And we're like, can you just imagine imagine if this goes well imagine if this goes well how how much our life is going to be

Miranda: 2:13

changed. I kind of like kinda,

Will Slater: 2:17

we're working on it. And then we had the most incredible I think we had an hour booked and we stayed for about two and a half hours. And it was just the most incredible conversation. And the rest they say is history. And we've mentioned your name to a whole host of people that we've chatted with and met with and every single person that we've said we're working with Miranda has just been like, Oh my God, you're working with her?

Unknown: 2:40

And how did you do that? V Miranda? Oh, so why do Why do Why does pink? If you can start there, that'd be a great. What is it

Stephanie Slater: 2:52

know yourself? We've already big No, maybe

Unknown: 2:55

it's the pink? So shiny shoes. Yeah.

Miranda: 2:59

I think it's because I love what I do, honestly, and I lectured for such a long time. And I've so I've I know, so many of the fabulous students that have come out. And I always tried to nourish them and be there for them. But I was quite firm at the same time. And I think just such

Unknown: 3:28

a hard question. It is a hard question to talk so like, positively about yourself, is it working?

Miranda: 3:33

I think it's how I work as well, because I am I'm particularly biochemically minded. So that was what I taught was nutritional biochemistry. And so I was very biochemical pathways, and you got to know this, and you've got to get this right, and you have to be able to fall back on this information. But then I use a lot of woowoo as well. So I sort of bring it all together and blend it in a way that kind of works. And students love that my patients love that. And I think they then can trust what I'm saying. And I also stay in my own lane. As a practitioner, I stay in my own lane so that I know exactly what I'm talking about. Or what. Yeah.

Stephanie Slater: 4:19

I think that your blend of the science and the woowoo is what makes you so incredible, because we're in this sort of transition period at the moment, I think in society where people were a bit wary of natural because they think What does it even mean and what have you put together and is that even real? And they're far more leaning towards? I want a bit more science and backing. And I think what we have found with you and obviously your background is it's science backed. I know what I'm talking about. There's research that supports this ingredient or this whatever. But there's also these beautiful complementary medicines that we can add that a guard has support. And it's that holistic. Yeah, view of health, which I think is so important,

Miranda: 5:06

I think, yeah, it's it is. And it's also just sort of speaking to that when we're using natural and I would use, I would say natural medicine rather than it being, you know, well being and wellness. Because to me, that gives it a bit more of that credibility. Yeah, so why does he use medicine? Right? So

Stephanie Slater: 5:29

what does natural clear when we say natural medicine? Are people thinking of just, you know, plant ashwagandha? Like, do you don't ever have like, is that way people go? Because what, what, why does it? Why can natural medicine have this almost unscientific feeling? Even though we know because we're very entrenched in it now, and I'll work with you we know how incredible it is. But yeah, it's sort of,

Miranda: 5:51

because I think people think natural medicine is, you know, fish slipping over somebody's back, if you remember that. You know, it's got some we'll cut to a little

Stephanie Slater: 6:02

image of that video. From Orion Sr, to her patients with that new therapy. That's the way

Miranda: 6:13

it is also, you know, because people can go and get a supplement from a health food shop, or a pharmacy. And they just go and pick up something because, you know, their next door neighbour said, it was fantastic. And it worked for them. And they've got, you know, so much energy, and they feel so much better. So they just go and pick something up without it being actually prescribed specifically for them. And then when it doesn't work, because it's not the right thing. There goes the credibility. Yes, yeah. And the people need to understand that, that nutritional medicine, natural medicine, changes biochemistry, right, that's what medicine does, it doesn't do that. So all the biochemical pathways that we have in our body, for every action, so for one thing, to turn into something else as a chemical reaction, you need enzymes, and those enzymes need coenzymes. And those coenzymes are nutrients. So the chemical process won't work without the nutrient.

Stephanie Slater: 7:21

So the nutrient is the natural,

Miranda: 7:24

the nutrient is the natural, right? Because that's what our body needs. A body doesn't get deficient in Zoloft. It gets deficient in folate. It doesn't get deficient in cardio Lippen it gets deficient in Coenzyme Q 10. You know, so the natural is what the body needs, what it requires what it's supposed to have so functions properly, because every single reaction in our body requires a nutrient. So magnesium, as an example, is involved in over 300 biochemical pathways, enzymatic reactions. Well, in the body, zinc is about 200. Okay, and whenever we sort of talk about this to say to my students, if you're ever not sure which nutrients you need to be looking at, for a particular pathway, just think zinc, magnesium, and basics, and you'll be somewhere in those three, yeah, those three nutrients cover most biochemical pathways. And I think this is the thing people don't understand. They think I'm just taking some B vitamins, I'm gonna get breakthrough way. And I don't know if it works or not. Yep. It does, as long as it's the right thing. And then having said that, because because we're changing these biochemical pathways, it's really important that it's the right nutrients, otherwise, you can throw the pathway out, like it can go, can specifically when we're talking about neurotransmitters, you start playing around with neurotransmitters, it starts with an amino acid, that amino acid turns into something else, and it needs the nutrients to do that, until it then becomes serotonin or dopamine or adrenaline and noradrenaline. And when you start playing with those neurotransmitters, you can affect all the others. So you've got to know what you're doing. It's not a matter of just going well, let's just go and you know, have some of this to try and build serotonin got in know, the pathway.

Will Slater: 9:29

And what do we get deficient in? What does that happen? So

Miranda: 9:32

a couple of reasons that can be that the nutrients aren't in our diet. So poor diet, so it's either an intake issue, you're not having enough of it, or it's a utilisation issue, your body's not realising it for some reason,

Will Slater: 9:48

or is that methylation or is there a number one? Yeah, that

Miranda: 9:51

could be a genetic polymorphism that's preventing your body from dealing with that nutrient as would be expected. or something like iron as an example, you know with it with with menstrual cycles we we get rid of it, we bleed it out. So it's intake utilisation metabolism or excretion.

Stephanie Slater: 10:16

And would you ask the reason that most people have an inadequate diet in this day and age?

Miranda: 10:25

Short answer is yes. I do. I do. And people think that because they're not eating junk food or they're not eating takeaway, you know, the healthy Yeah, then they're healthy. And it's like, they they may perceive that, oh, I have wholemeal bread and say, Well, is it wholemeal bread from supermarket because that's just white fluffy bread with a bit of colour in it. You know, it's, it's, and you know, even on the topic of white fluffy bread that's fortified with folic acid. And if you have an MTHFR defect, then folic acid isn't what you should be having. So you can get exposure then to too much folic acid that then throws out that methylation pathway.

Will Slater: 11:09

Think about that even in kids. Because most kids what do they have for breakfast, you know, have a piece of toast on the way out because it's simple and easy or cereal, which is generally very high in folic acid and then the impact that they can have on those kids during the day at childcare or at school or whatever it just what does it do

Miranda: 11:29

with it's also can I come back to that so it's all the sugar that's in no the cereals, although the white fluffy bread and often the white fluffy bread has Marjorie Nanos or Natl x, or, you know, maybe some Vegemite and maybe some jam. It's sugar. Yep. You know, there's there's there's very poor nutrition there. And that sets off the kid's brain in such a weird way. Charlie had three eggs every morning for breakfast is incredible. is nine. And he has three eggs, red meat every morning. Wow. Well,

Unknown: 12:05

being somebody right? You know? They are Bellary tags with special

Stephanie Slater: 12:10

pens. Yeah, but I just think on the bread wings, because I think this is really interesting. I think the we think we're having a healthy dogs. We don't eat crap. But actually, is it wholesome and full? And yeah, Whole Foods. And but I think also as a parent, what is marketed to you because often they'll say, fortified with B nine and you go, Oh, wow, okay, my kids getting this nutrient. But we've done our own research on that. And all regulated. Flour in Australia has to be fortified unless it's organic. Yes. So we started buying organic bread, but I actually went to a bakery down the road. And I said, I'm just wondering if you sell organic bread? And he said, Oh, no, we don't sorry. And I said, Okay, do you know much about like the for, you know, for the phone? Do you have it? That's not for me. He said, No bread in Australia can be without the fortified. That's what happens in our flour, did it and I said, Oh, I've just read that organic because they're not spraying and did it? And they said, I don't think that's right. Where did you I wouldn't be trusting anything you just read on the internet. And I was like, Screw you, man. Like I've researched it. And I know it. I know. It's fact and I know because you can actually look on the back of your pocket. And you can see four to five weeks. But fortified doesn't mean good. Like for I've had like

Miranda: 13:20

a cat since 2009. That that that legislation came in. That's in Australia where it were non organic. Wheat flour must be fortified with folic acid. Now, I think the intention behind it is good, right? It's all about prevention of spinal bifida right here or tube defects. Okay. So the, I think it was an honourable intention. However, we now know that with an MTHFR defect of which 60% of the population have one or more polymorphisms on that on that gene, then having 400 micrograms of folic acid, that's the hem sluit upper limit that somebody can have if they have an MTHFR defect, right. Ideally, we'd like them to be sitting at about 200 micrograms of folic acid. Now in a standard Australian diet, you can wind up with 1000 micrograms like that. Wow. Easy peasy. Right? And that's because of the bread and the wheat flour and the fortification because it's then in UK continue biscuit. It's in your pasture. It's in all of it. Everything that has wheat flour, you are 100% Correct. If it is organic flour, it does not have to be fortified. And you sit there and go. Why? Yep. What? So? And it's kind of like because the phalates already in there? Yes. You don't need it. It hasn't been stripped out through the whole refining process. Yes.

Stephanie Slater: 14:51

And so if you have the genetic mutation, MTHFR gene or a variation of which I have and that's obviously people know that's my story found out about that. genetic mutation we had miscarriages and postnatal depression, we read studies that correlated it not necessarily causational But so what can it do if you're having tea that 1000 When you should only be having 400 You said milligrammes, micrograms? Sorry, yeah, micrograms. What can happen in the body with that folic that synthetic version of Foley.

Miranda: 15:18

So you just don't convert your data converted efficiently, efficiently and efficiently? Efficient. Efficient actually works as well. You're showing not converted. And it just, it's, there's lots of conjecture around this and I can I can get some people's backs up knickers in a twist. Yeah. Thank you. Because it basically if you if your blood is then saturated with this folic acid, it's taking up those receptor sites and preventing the actual real conversion conversions from happening. And there's a whole but again, a whole biochemical process with the folic acid. There's over 150 Different phalates Wow, 150 different for whites. And they all are comprised of three specific parts to them in all these different configurations. Right? Yeah,

Stephanie Slater: 16:12

the body is incredible. It's incredible. And

Miranda: 16:15

folic acid is synthetic. It's It's not natural. It's not something we find. In nature, people survived before folic acid fortification occurred. We, you know, it's it's so far late itself is also really important for cell division. So that's why neural tube defects and spinal bifida, it's so important because it keeps the embryo and it keeps the cells from continuing to divide. But that along all labour, that's folate? Yeah.

Will Slater: 16:46

Can you just explain the difference? Because I feel like they're used interchangeably. So that's like folic acid, folate? It's the same thing in a lot of people minds. Yeah.

Miranda: 16:55

So as I said, there's 150 different types of vitamin bainite. Right? So let's, let's refer to it as its, as its name, which is vitamin B nine, otherwise known as folate, that's like the umbrella term. So you sort of go right, it's vitamin B, nine folate, but that then divides into folic acid, which is the synthetic, it then in we have folinic acid, and then we have L five MTHFR. Right, and that's the active folate. So that's the three that we commonly come across. There's many, many more, but that's the three we come across. So folinic acid, and l five MTHFR. Active folate, they are the real versions of vitamin D

Stephanie Slater: 17:42

nine, so they're readily absorbed by the body, your body could utilise that to do its thing with that, yes.

Miranda: 17:48

And then some people will react to methyl folate, and that's again dependent on their methylation processes. So you take a step back and go alright, we go for linic acid. But when you look at the biochemical pathway, these are all different steps in the activation of the B nine. So it sort of starts as di hydro folate, which is otherwise known as folic acid, and then has to convert all the way around to the active version. And then even in the small intestine with what the small intestine does with all of these small weights, it's very, very specific that it goes to L five M THF. Wow.

Will Slater: 18:26

And so 60 G's and people are unable to activate

Miranda: 18:30

the process through this, the MTHFR enzyme is in is in the final step of the activation, before you get active folate, right. So just imagine you've got this little circle and you've got folic acid, and then it goes to the folinic acid, and then it goes to fold active folate, the MTHFR enzyme is in that last step. Right?

Will Slater: 18:52

And that's what's preventing that font. That's right.

Miranda: 18:55

That's right. So if you have an MTHFR defect, have you ever written it down and looked at what it looks like? Oh, yeah, mother, mother, Fr. And we used to call it that. We refer to it as that at uni, the, the mother Fr. Everyone you wouldn't want yeah. And so with that enzyme, we have two genes that encode for that enzyme, the A 1298 C, or the C six 770. The most common polymorphism or snip or defect is on the C six 770. Okay, and that's the one that most people will have something on, and you can have one snip, or defect or two. So you can be heterozygous, which means you've got it. One, one vote and you've got it from Mum or Dad. Or you can be homozygous, which means you've got it from Mum and Dad. Yeah, so there's different combinations and in the and then the C 677 T the most common one that is also in implicated in cardiovascular disease risk. So it's not just fertility, you'll watch embryo development. It has other broader impacts. And the C 677. T is commonly associated with an elevation in homocysteine. homocysteine can go up for other reasons. But when you have a snip, particularly if you have your either compound heterozygous, which means you've got a one to nine, eight, C and C six, enter, which is what I have yet cut, so you've got one on each Yeah, yeah. Or you can have two on one, then that's where your your ability to activate for late is even harder. So the more faults you've got, the harder it is to learn today,

Stephanie Slater: 20:42

I pitchers like a also no vigil I don't drive manual spotter while I'm having an analogy. But you know, like a get stuck stick stuck in like second gear like yeah, that cycle. I feel like we got to first second and now I can't get into third. Yeah, can't do that converting or do do

Miranda: 20:57

it a little bit. Yeah. And it'll jump back out. Ah, the other thing to always remember with enzymes and biochemical pathways is it's not an all or none phenomenon. It's it, it impacts it, it inhibits, but it doesn't totally wipe out. Yeah. And so that gearstick analogy is like hard. Sometimes it'll go in and then just Yeah, keeps coming back. Yeah.

Stephanie Slater: 21:20

stores a little bit that a lot of again, yeah. Yeah. Look at me go with my car analogy.

Unknown: 21:26

I'm sitting here with two females. What is this the way down to the pub? Or are we

Will Slater: 21:35

tired? It's timer. And so what happens if you're, if you've got one or both of those, and you're eating 1000 micrograms of folic acid per day, let's say? What's happening, like what is the knot so

Miranda: 21:52

it's not being utilised, firstly, and then that methylation pathway is not functioning as it should. So and that will then potentially lead to a build up of homocysteine, which is then implicated in all of these other cardiovascular disease risk, early pregnancy loss, arthritis, chronic inflammatory conditions, and the folic acid is hanging around in the bloodstream, taking up the receptor sites and preventing active benign, the real fault from being able to do its job. And can ever

Stephanie Slater: 22:26

be things like energy like that, that you can become slightly from that skinny layer.

Miranda: 22:32

Yeah, so you're gonna have, like, it can affect histamine. It can affect oestrogen, it can affect the many, many different pathways, because this is also a pathway that's happening in the liver. Yeah. And so it it impacts so many different pathways. methylation is one of six pathways in phase two liver detoxification. Okay, and the pathway that's very, very important for your hormones. But also, if this cycle is not working, then we don't. There's a process called RE methylation so we don't really methylate the homocysteine homocysteine goes up. But then also homocysteine is supposed to go metabolised down to glutathione. Right? It goes homocysteine to cysteine. to So we all know NEC everyone talks about NEC Yeah, I don't know. Nakata, NASA NEC is N acetylcysteine. Okay, ours, Okay, fabulous. Antioxidant. Brian body's one of the body's most brilliant antioxidants. But homocysteine. To keep it in check, we need folate and B 12. So that we can read methylated, or we need B six. So it goes down the transsulfuration pathway to glutathione. Firstly to cysteine, NAC and acetylcysteine. And then on to glutathione, which is our body's greatest antioxidant. You know, so how DHFR is beyond just thinking about early pregnancy loss, which is what it commonly gets associate or difficulties conceiving. It's it's part of a massive antioxidant system. And

Stephanie Slater: 24:06

yeah, and so folate shouldn't just be a supplement for pregnant women. It's beyond just a pregnant woman. It's humans, like we all need it for

Miranda: 24:14

every for every single so when we start when we start as a little baby, and we've got all of these cells that are dividing, so bred progenitor cells that then decide all I'm going to I'm a white blood cell, I'm going to decide that I'm going to be a lymphocyte I'm going to go that way or when we're producing all of these cells in the body. The two nutrients that are needed for that cellular division to keep happening is folate and B 12. At the key to everything. And then if you wanted to throw a third in kind of the triplet to that is choline, kind of the Forgotten nutrient a lot of the time that Beethoven folate for every single cell to become the cell that's going to become you must start with folate and be 12 years old. He has to have them so that it can keep developing and dividing. And that's why folate, I still think the intention was pure with the fortification with the folic acid because it Spinal Bifida or new tube defects are due to the inability of the cells to keep dividing. Do you reckon some folic acid, and it should be fine? intentions good or should be broken? Assuming people can? Yeah, and there's lots of people who can Yeah, yeah, there's there are lots of people that can but when we starting to look at the statistics, that there's 60% that are suffering some sort of MTHFR defect, it's high. And it doesn't mean it's having an enormous impact on all of those 60 people, I would I do want to be very, very clear with that. And again, it does depend on the snip. So the a one to nine, eight c. Step, did you say you would compound him? Right? Yeah, we had one on both. Yeah. So the A 1298. C is the one that is more associated with mental health. Yeah, again, not just sitting there talking about embryo development or embryos, but mental health impacts.

Stephanie Slater: 26:10

And I just think that, you know, with my diagnosis of postnatal it was more that and this was like this, the story I always say, but even if the chance was 0.0001% that it was the folic acid. But why wasn't I informed and empowered to make that decision myself? That's my frustration. It's not that I'm blaming folic acid or saying it's folic acid that causes but the fact that there's this slight slight potential chance I wasn't told to I took this. You know, pregnancy supplement apparently is the best and it's crap. And we all know what it we all know what it is. It rhymes with Sal of

Unknown: 26:47

it. It baths with Ella sheet.

Will Slater: 26:52

That's a wave that was prepared.

Miranda: 26:59

You know, studying and I'd post.

Stephanie Slater: 27:03

But you go for it, because well, you told it seems to be this gold standard. But I just it was his frustration that had I known that that existed, I might have done a test, I may not have that I would have had that choice. Like that's my choice to make. And that's the frustration. I think that's what led us into creating our Skule and then working with someone like you who is so deeply passionate about women's health and what we're putting into our bodies. And the more I was hearing you talk, I was like, Oh my gosh, can we talk about the pill like I'd love photographed the hill. Because that's a that's a whole other ballgame that I just think, Wow. But that's where I think as a woman, you just feel so disempowered, because obviously you do whatever you were told for the health of your baby, yes. But you also neglect what you need, because you're just going to do anything in everything for that baby. And that's then that transfers into postnatal. And you think I'll just quickly drink this coffee while I'm breastfeeding. And as long as my baby is being fed, and you forget that you actually need to feed yourself, which has implications for the baby anyway. But you don't think that way? Because so I don't know what my point is. But

Miranda: 28:00

there's a couple of things. So So I agree with you in the amount of the work I do. This, it seems to be the goal seems to be conception. Right? I've just, I've just what I conceive, then that's good. But it's not about that. It's about a conscious conception. It's about a healthy pregnancy. It's about a live birth. And then it's about a healthy baby that's going to become a healthy human. And so a lot of the time in that postnatal period, that's exactly what happens. women lose their focus on themselves, because it becomes about just making sure the baby's okay, which again, intentions are beautiful and pure. But the greatest gift you can actually give your child is for you to be healthy. Yeah, we talk about we do anything when I die for my children. Okay, would you get healthy for them to have? Yeah,

Stephanie Slater: 28:56

that hits home. Yeah. That slack that makes me feel a little bit emotional. Like when you said that I gotten shivers because I think we play this martyr role. And we sacrifice and we think that's what we have to do. That's where I will lay my body on the ground for you. Wish we would Yeah, but like, why don't ya let's be healthy for you. You deserve

Miranda: 29:18

you deserve what the how the mom and your dad have healthy parents because that's what makes you a healthy human. And it just gets so lost in translation and particularly with the fertility world and with IVF and it really does just become about the conception and then often I see with with a lot of my patients I'm I train them to go when you have conceived I'm usually not worried about the conception. When you have conceived though, he to maintain the healthy preconception diet that we've just done. Yeah, three months, but so many women, for whatever reason, and it's not a judgement call. All in it's not a this is not a shaming, it's not to shame anyone. There are so many women you know, they wind up with morning sickness so they'll just grab whatever they can so that they don't feel sick in and that might be they've had this beautiful preconception died of eggs and five cups of leafy green vegetables and salmon a day and salmon and chia seeds and and then they go to are going up just got to have you know, macros chips. Yeah and macros

Will Slater: 30:27

or did that Masataka used to empty out our bins Miranda and stuff down the side of the Grundy bed out the front five bags of McDonald's nuggets boxes, and

Stephanie Slater: 30:40

I don't even eat chicken or meat but they will be no good. All right,

Miranda: 30:45

let's get to happen. Yeah, right. Because eats, eats. If they've got the morning sickness, they're just doing whatever they can to survive. But that's, you know, that's not the healthiest option then and there's all that beautiful preconception care. Thank goodness that's been done. But then it doesn't set them up well for the rest of the pregnancy. Or at the other end. Yeah, they actually have their baby. And

Stephanie Slater: 31:10

there's such a melt. There's such a lack of focus on postnatal as well, though, I think we prepare for birth. Yes, as you said, but I think once the baby comes, and even like the maternal child health checkups, you get a check at six weeks, or eight weeks, whatever it is, but after that, it's like, Oh, are you going well, okay, so let's check your baby should be doing these. Your baby should really learned on an annual like, Yeah, I'm good. I'm good. I think I'm good. And you don't even recognise and I just remember like, you didn't you don't eat? Well, me personally. And from my experience I didn't eat well, I would eat the scraps of especially when I had to with Sebastian because it was such a small age gap. And I was breastfeeding and I will just have like an electrolyte drink and think, oh, at least I'm getting something there. And I didn't even know about postnatal vitamins and what that could do for me. And I was definitely deficient. Like there's no denying that. And I just wish that more emphasis was given to the mother post birth as well

Miranda: 32:03

read more. And I just couldn't agree more. Yeah, it blows

Stephanie Slater: 32:06

my mind still to this day that. I mean, there's some incredible things happening in that space, which we were talking about earlier. But basically what we're doing, yes,

Unknown: 32:14

that's what we're doing. You

Stephanie Slater: 32:17

know, I just think that if we can empower women to prioritise themselves and just coming back to what you said, I think it's so powerful be healthy for your children to die for them be healthy for them. Yeah. Just holding on to that remembering it's not selfish. It's not you know, a lack of love or care for them it's actually more loving care for them by doing this for yourself.

Miranda: 32:38

It's it's also then impacted obviously, by the sleep deprivation though, and all of those Albert tea a little secret to say, Charlie slept through the night. From two weeks off,

Will Slater: 32:51

get out, leave.

Stephanie Slater: 32:54

We never want you on here again. And,

Miranda: 32:56

and deep woods, and I wouldn't tell my mother's group that it was just you and that's the only

Unknown: 33:02

way tied to on these. We exhausted all cookies just falling asleep in my bed.

Miranda: 33:10

And but that was actually hard going to some of the some of that. I had a great mother's group, but going to some of those conversations where they're talking about how sleep deprived they are. But then they're telling me what they're eating. And then they're telling me about the supplement that they're having. And I'm just sitting there going well, if we change this, remember that everything's coming through the breast milk. And so that might change. But you know, with a roomful of very overtired women it was it would it wasn't sort of, I suppose it wasn't the right place for me to be having those conversations because I was there as a mum, not as their practitioner. And as I was trying to be a mum as well. Right. Not not a practitioner. But that's where this space now is just so important. And and you know, the maternal health care nurses don't give, you know, they talk about some lactation cookies. And that's about it when you're talking about food or nutrition. Yeah, I

Stephanie Slater: 34:05

think for the most part, they're not trained in nutrition now. Yeah, unless they're like, and like one of the women I spoke to, I think she was an ex midwife, and she'd done like, so she had a bit of specialist knowledge, but mostly, yeah.

Miranda: 34:17

What's also the fertility specialists or the GPS you are trained in unless they've done extra training, but you know, the firm for a medical degree. I think that is something like six weeks maybe of nutrition. I don't even think it's that now. I don't know. But I did used to be about six weeks, like one lecture for six weeks, or they feel sufficient. It's, well, it's not it's you know, we do three years. Crazy three years of nutrition, from nutritional medicine and not just learning about A, B and C, but actually how it all works, how it all functions, then or just

Stephanie Slater: 34:52

to re emphasise it and that is natural medicine. That's what we're talking about nutrition, what your body can do on its own that's out there. crap. You know, you don't like I'm not comparing so so but you know, without the antibiotics or the vessel that that let's do natural what your body knows to be natural to its environment to itself. Yeah. And then so I just I think that's such an important piece because people think natural equals woowoo. And so far off, but actually, it's the most well, natural zactly make sense to the body so and you know, tribes and communities have been knowing this for hundreds 1000s of years. And you know, there's

Miranda: 35:30

the doctrine of signatures which you look at something that's in nature and go, Ah, if we slice a carrot in that particular way, it looks like an iris out character, good guy that got vitamin A in them. Oh, wow, beta carotene thing good for eyes. A walnut looks like a brain. It's good for the brain. That's

Will Slater: 35:47

the medical the outcomes, Rosa theory, which is the simplest solution generally, is the right one, and that we, we so desperately want to overcomplicate things, and everything has to be complex to be right. So because I like obviously, I love everything that you're saying, I totally am on board. But I can imagine those people who might be listening thinking, Yeah, but you know, I can buy a box of pills for $50 at chemists warehouse, and that's what I need to fix me. And I think that's, that's a societal challenge that pharmaceutical companies have done a great job of marketing to us and telling us that that's actually what we need when it's when it's not at all, that people are so reluctant, I think to consider alternatives that might actually be the simplest, most straightforward solution. Today's episode is brought to you by ask li our very own health tech startup that's redefining wellness for moms. If you're trying to juggle everything in life like oh, yeah, and want a simple and easy way to stay on top of your health. This is for you. Imagine a daily scoop of wellness crafted based on your unique health needs and delivered right to your doorstep. askeleen makes it easy with bespoke supplements tailored to your needs. Ready to transform your health, visit escalade.co and book a brief consult with one of our health practitioners. Stay tuned until the end of this episode for an exclusive offer. Ask lay made just for you.

Miranda: 37:16

I think it's changed a lot in so I've been practising now for almost 25 years and from when I'd have to and when I found natural Bothy that that was the course I wanted to do it was like it's had about this much writing about it in the VTEC guide. You remember Vijay? Yeah, we don't know your subject. And it was like, wow, the and you know, medicine, it'd be pages of information and attributes. So it's changed a lot from it being first line treatment. I didn't know where I was going. Somewhere other people find it hard to. So a lot of people now this is their first line treatment group. It never used to be. But a lot of people nowadays because they've had whatever experience they've had with it with. Within GPO.

Will Slater: 38:06

It's hopefully Google waking up a little bit. Not as willing as they might have been in the past to just accept this kind of subpar existence that a lot of people have. Yeah,

Miranda: 38:18

and where we're at the end, as they were as a badge of honour, you know, I'm tired, I'm exhausted. It's not a badge of honour. It's, it's, that's not how we're supposed to function. But I do want to say my dad was a GP. So I've seen it from the behind the scenes and what happened. So it is again, I have huge love for GPS and my nephew has is doing has just finished medicine as his energy medicine now, and so amazing. I come from a family history of doctors. My great, great, great, great, I don't know how many greats, but he was the consulting physician to the King of England. Wow. Wow. So it comes from a being Lilia drove the urge. And what I see is that I feel for GPS, because a lot of people will say to me, like who did stuff just before you know, why wasn't I told, you know, why? Why isn't my GP doing these tests? Why do I have to pay for them out of pocket? Or why don't I know about folate or L sheath? Or or, you know, why don't I know? And it's simply because the GPS or product of the education that they've gone through. And they're also constrained by regulations, Medicare, you know, so a lot of the time, they can't be seen to be doing X, Y and Zed test, because they'll be audited if they seem to be doing a test that isn't required. And I believe I saw my dad be audited. It's not a fun process. It's a very, very stressful process. So I kind of, I feel very, very sad For GPS, when they're confronted with that,

Stephanie Slater: 40:04

I feel Yeah, I can resonate a little bit with that in the teacher. And we I think we talked about this a little bit with Kate the dietician a few weeks back, but because I think there are some incredible GPS out there, just as I think there's some incredible teachers out there, who were so hamstrung by the system and curriculum, which is like the regulation, he's added us, so, we want to do this incredible job, but we have to do all these other things in where, you know, overwhelmed by paperwork that most teachers aka most GPS will just get done what they can and kind of tick these boxes and not have their livelihood affected if they step out of line too much or be seen. So they kind of fly under the radar all that sort of thing. So I can I can appreciate that. And I think the main you know, as Kate called it, we're a sick care system we we prey on illness and like I'd rather give you the Panadol then work out you know what's actually going on there

Miranda: 40:56

don't have time. Yeah and have time to work. Sad and and GPS tend to be you know, my dad has as a GP, he was the anaesthetist he did deliver all the babies, he delivered most of my friends from school. He did the home visits, he was the consult he'd like they did there was not gynaecologists back then there was not obstetricians, your GP was everything. That's changed a lot now. So GPS tend to be not as active in in a lot of those processes. Now, it's like, Oh, I'll refer you one. I'll refer you and I'll refer you one I'll refer you on with having said all of that, it's like well, wait, your turn hatch path? Yeah. Totally. No, because we can offer something and there are, obviously there's a lot of IVF specialists I work with, and there are fantastic GPS out there that do do that. Or they've done extra study, integrative GP. But it's kind of it for them. Just be nice if they went, hey, yeah, I'm gonna go this is not my lane. So let's go to Miranda. Yeah, no, because I know she can help with X, Y, and Zed.

Will Slater: 42:15

What did it because the regulations changed, didn't they, especially around neuropathy, and a few other natural medicines. I don't even know what Yeah, I don't even know when that was, but I know my my sister was going down the nephropathy path, and then that all shifted. And so she went down a different path. She's doing physiotherapy now, but what was without, I guess, running the risk of getting too political. But what happened there and why was that the case? And is that part of the reason why GPs are less likely to refer or Is that so?

Miranda: 42:46

So we have APRA, which is the Australian health practitioners registration regulation Association, whatever they dance for. And doctors, IVF, specialists, chiropractors, osteo, is nurses. acupuncturists are all part of APRA naturopaths aren't. We're not registered. We are qualified, and we have associations and we are regulated. But we're not part of the APRA registration. So that's, that's one of the sort of political issues there aren't, you know, whether they whether are the healthcare professionals then see how they view that. And, in my opinion, once you are registered with AHPRA, there's a limit where you can take stinks, you can't say anymore. So a lot of naturopaths it's almost like an internal fight within the naturopathic industry ourselves, because some people want registration and some don't. And we want registration because of the apparent credibility. I don't think you need it for credibility at all. I don't need it for my credibility. So your credibility speaks for itself. But then if we

Stephanie Slater: 44:08

then you go, if you without proper Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Miranda: 44:12

so there's that. But we did have private health we weren't covered by private health. So that's when I was in Calton. Iboga. Car. I can't remember how long ago it was

Unknown: 44:24

10 years ago be Yeah. And we

Miranda: 44:27

had it sir. A little while. And then it? Yeah, then it was taken away from us. I actually don't know why. I don't know what happened. Something political behind the scenes. But it was it was devastated. I mean, people wouldn't get a lot back but then it get a lot back with any

Stephanie Slater: 44:45

Yeah, how $40 Or like 180 or whatever it

Miranda: 44:47

is something like that. You know, but it was still something and it was a shame. It didn't affect my business, but I know it affected other people's businesses and Mmm,

Will Slater: 45:00

maybe people that didn't already have a reputation in the industry or in the market were maybe found a little bit

Miranda: 45:06

harder, harder. Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah, because it was a big thing to to, why did we get it and then have it remember, we didn't do anything wrong. It sounds that was something

Will Slater: 45:19

was a lot of systemic issues, like you hear of so many GPS, especially over in the US that to get their registrations pulled because they have found something out or go down a different path or start talking about things that the government doesn't want them to talk about and immediately get ordered, as like you said, you that didn't have their accreditation pulled entirely and can no longer practice and it's Yeah, I think there's a lot to be said about that from a political and systemic position. And where's the government getting its funding from? Well, it's getting it from pharmaceutical companies and farmers and you know, there's a lot in that.

Miranda: 45:54

Yeah, there's a lot in that. And we were talking about, you know, a naturopath earlier who was banned from practising because she said the wrong thing. So we we are also have to be very, very careful what we claim naturopathic ly, we're not supposed to treat cancer, diabetes, depression, or whatever the other one is. Even depression. We're not to say we are treating depression, you're not even saying curing you're just saying treating supporting can say support. Okay, we cannot treat someone with depression. And it used to be that we weren't even allowed to say we could diagnose Well, that's out the window now. Like knows all that.

Stephanie Slater: 46:39

I think everyone on the street forget diagnosis, everyone.

Unknown: 46:43

Even though it's biochemical. Yeah.

Stephanie Slater: 46:46

Isn't that literally what you're trained in? At any time? Tall?

Unknown: 46:50

is funny. It's all these these funny little and naturopaths in America are doctors first.

Miranda: 46:59

Your doctor and then you go on to be a naturopathic doctor. Wow. Yeah. So bizarre, and we used to so there was some a lot of questions around whether you could use the terminology naturopathic doctor, this is the years ago. So the letters were nd. Okay, and people were advised not to use it. I call yourself a naturopathic doctor.

Stephanie Slater: 47:26

All the things.

Unknown: 47:28

I've got a lot to say. Say that for another episode?

Will Slater: 47:35

The obviously you do a lot of work in fertility. Yeah. And was that? Was that something that you always did? Was that a part of your journey that led you there? How did that? So

Miranda: 47:46

I didn't ever want to work in women's beds. That wasn't my passion. So the way you describe what I used to say, that wasn't wasn't where, but one of my lecturers in clinic one day made me draw the hormonal pathways upon the board. And I'm like, Oh, okay. Sure. All right. And I just just, I just got it. I just it just, I didn't even know that I knew it and it doesn't. And I was like, Oh, okay. And then I had my own fertility journey. I hate using the word infertility. I do not believe in infertility, and particularly when it's got unexplained in front of it. Yeah. So that's what I was diagnosed with unexplained. Infertility. Slike. What is that? And my dad used to say that unexplained infertility is lazy medicine. They just haven't figured out why you haven't conceived yet. And that to me became really important when I started doing a lot of this work. But at 39 I was diagnosed with unexplained infertility. It's like it's not unexplained. I know what's going on. I know what's happening.

Will Slater: 49:05

Because I think a lot of people are told that all you need is patients.

Miranda: 49:10

Yes. Or IVF. Yes. You'll never get pregnant you just need you'll never fall pregnant. I can't stand that either. falling pregnant. It's like what we're going to try her and well, maybe and why I'm pregnant in my university. doesn't happen that way. Right? And that's where I prefer to talk about conscious conception or trying to conceive a life conscious conception Yeah, even trying to conceive it's like, oh, I'm trying a type well, just conceive consciously.

Stephanie Slater: 49:43

So what does that mean? Because I feel like someone who possibly may be diagnosed with unexplained infertility might find that maybe frustrating because I think I am conscious I'm truck Well here I am saying trying, you know, and it's not happening. So what do you mean that I have to be conscious like What do you mean? So it

Miranda: 50:01

rather than falling pregnant rather than the the terminology of you know, it's just going to happen. But the conscious conception is about it might not be happening but you are you actually consciously aware of all the things that all the moving parts and what's required naturally to conceive most people, most people when I start consulting with a new patient, and I will say to them, you know, tell me about your your menstrual cycle. How many days is it? How many days is it and now go? I bleed for four days, then no, no, no, your your cycle? Not your blade, your whole site? What do you mean?

Stephanie Slater: 50:44

That's exactly what I was just thinking. I'm like, what the frickin hell is my cycle? Yeah, we've been on the pill since I was 14 out of there. I don't know whatever the pills Tell me

Miranda: 50:51

whatever. Yeah. When you ovulate on my app tells me are ovulate on day 14 old 10% of us ovulate on day 14. That means 90% of us ovulate on some other day. The egg only lasts between 12 to 24 hours. If you do not know when you are ovulating. You have not been trying. Right? You still know when you're ovulating. If you think you've been trying. And lots of couples will say to me, Oh, we've been trying for 12 months and it hasn't happened yet. It's like okay, when you ovulate whenever my app tells tells me, your app gets your ovulation right. 21% of the time, less than 21% of the time. I'd call that pretty unreliable. So how do you know? So at mucus and again, a lot of people think oh, I see. Clear raw egg white mucus I'm ovulating. It's like, no, no, the clear or egg white mucus says your luteinizing hormone has gone up. And the luteinizing hormone is trying for you to ovulate. But it doesn't mean you have ovulate. So mucus is a predictor of ovulation. And when we get clear raw egg white mucus, you can have it for one day, you can have it for two days, you can have it for three days, it can stop it can start again. We're always looking for the last wet day, the last day that you have the clear raw egg white mucus. Now, if I've got clear or raw egg white mucus today, I don't know if I'm going to have it tomorrow. So when am I ovulated. And this is why we track it so that we can get a history we can get data and a pattern. So we're always looking for the last wet day and the basic fertility pattern is you had that last wet day, then your mucus goes dry again, and then you'll bleed. Now from ovulation until your bleed we want that luteal phase to be 11 to 18 days or it's not a fertile cycle. If it's less than 11 days, it is not a fertile cycle, even if you've ovulated. And that's because there's not enough hormone to play with. Right? The luteal phase needs to be 11 days. Minimum, ideally 12 1314. Once you ovulate, and how we got here behaviour, it's

Unknown: 53:03

a great because I've got I've got a question. So first great once you

Miranda: 53:07

ovulate, and if you when you do ovulate, you will get your period 11 to 18 days later, either. And if you don't, then either you a did not ovulate or be your pregnant. It's diagnostic. So knowing your ovulation is key to everything, your period. That's just a report card of what's happened for your whole cycle. Right? You've got to know when ovulation is. And then the way that we confirm ovulation is your temperature. So mucus predicts and then your temperature confirms and it's the drop and rise in the temperature. And when you see the drop in the rise somewhere in that 24 hour period is when you ovulate it

Stephanie Slater: 53:50

so I imagine though, for yourself, and if I'm getting too personal, just average. But you said you know all this, obviously, and you were diagnosed unexplained fertility, so you would have known your ovulation. Exactly when the temperature the mucus that did that. So how, what, what did that mean for you? How did you interpret that? What did you take from that? And

Miranda: 54:11

so for me, I was 39 when I was when I was trying all of this and I had had my own health history. That was not great. And that, I believe, is what impacted my egg quality and my ability to actually conceive. So I never had a natural conception with my own eggs. And then even when I did IVF, I was getting three eggs. And I was just like, Oh my goodness. And so by this stage, I was in 4041, and just getting older and older and going and we're talking, you know, 11 years ago now. So a lot of the technology, a lot of the things that are happening now weren't happening back then. And then I made the choice. I just wanted to be a mum. I wanted to leave my ego at the door. It wasn't about genetics from anymore. It was just about being a mum and I heard I heard about one of my colleagues actually who's using donor eggs and I went right. And straight away. As soon as I heard it, I went cool. I'm gonna do it just it just made sense. It sounds bizarre, but it made sense in my brain, that that's how I was going to be a mom. I, when I was about 12, and I've talked about this before my own podcast when I was about 12, my old I had two older sisters, and they had, like, remember, Cleo magazine, you helped her Cleo magazine at home. And there was this whole article in there about unexplained infertility. Right? Well back then. And I had no idea what that really meant. But when I started reading it, and this woman was not able to, to get pregnant to conceive this panic. Remember, this panic went through my body. And it was like, that's going to be me. Wow, in. It's like, I locked that into my DNA. I still remember sitting there. And the whole feeling that I had and just went and be me. Well, which is a bit bizarre, at 1213.

Stephanie Slater: 56:11

Three stressing about that. I had

Unknown: 56:13

no it wasn't even our dress. It was just annoying. It was annoying. Oh, wow. It was like a rough.

Miranda: 56:22

That's gonna be me. Which is why then when I heard about donor eggs, it was like a cool SaLuSa selection. Bizarre when I think about it, I don't know why I had that feeling. I don't know. Maybe that was always supposed to be my journey. It was always supposed to be this and using donor eggs. And so I used three different donors to get my two children and so they they both have that from different, different donors. And it's amazing how similar they are.

Unknown: 56:53

It's amazing how different they are. Yeah, absolutely. And

Miranda: 56:58

how many people tell me that they look like me.

Stephanie Slater: 57:02

I mean, I barely get but Matilda honestly, I wouldn't. I would say that. Yes. Yeah. If you don't know your story, yeah, you look similar. Like you look mother daughter. Yeah,

Unknown: 57:11

it's really interesting. I

Stephanie Slater: 57:13

mean, you our mother, daughter. Sorry, that sounded awful. No, no, I know a lot me in biology. Yes.

Miranda: 57:18

Yeah. No, no, I know exactly what you mean. And it's, it's, yeah, it's quite amazing. It's the nature nurture. So you nurture the nature? Yeah.

Stephanie Slater: 57:28

I'm just so intrigued by the unexplained infertility. So say someone's fallen pregnant. And I don't like to use this word either, you know, naturally. And no intervention. No, this no that and then did I

Miranda: 57:41

used to muster think? Or you asking me if I had six? Yes. See? If I can see if that does. What it what I'd get when I was 14. So I was 46. With Matilda. Yeah. Right. Pregnant with Matilda. And people would say to me, did you conceive naturally and you asked me if I had sex is that what do you want to know? I know. Just

Unknown: 58:05

because call harshly I love

Will Slater: 58:07

how like we see grandparents sex as if you would ever talk to you. As if that would ever be a conversation but I refer my grandmother to because trying like you're gonna hook Are you just asking me whether we're having sex right now? Want me to confirm that for you? I'm happy to but it's just such a bizarre salvation. Yeah. Are you trying? Are you guys are trying that's because having sex all the time?

Stephanie Slater: 58:33

It's fantastic is like, yeah, sorry. Sorry. No, no. So so let's say yeah, you can see through sex and no intervention. And then the second time around, you can't fall fall pregnant consciously can say whatever it might be, you know, let's use fall pregnant for this. Also, so what's going what? What's going on then with that? So I'm going to pay

Miranda: 58:53

to one of my patients you're saying your patient is Daisy exactly this. So Ham conceived naturally. After six months of trying, no problem great or beautiful, fantastic. Then she since then, she has put on to her child now he's two and they have been trying again for I think it's 12 months I think that's what so she want they wanted to have them quite close together. Now ideally, it's good to have about two years. I think it's separation just for the mum to replenish and regenerate, regenerate, get her stores up and, and survive the first child because it's actually the app until your child is four. That's actually the most likely time for postnatal depression is around when your child is four. So when that's

Stephanie Slater: 59:46

the most likely time for depression when your child is four. And when you think of supporting the mother, you think the first year yeah, that's not to say you don't need this what you share is happening as well. Let's hear but we're saying primetime for postnatal depression. Your child is four that's when you think you've got your shit sorted out all under control. It's probably why you think you should. Yeah, sure. Yeah. And everything just comes crashing down. Yeah.

Miranda: 1:00:16

So then with with this, with this woman, particularly, she's only 29. And what she found was, she's lives out on a farm. She actually they actually lost everything in floods in Victoria, back in October. Anyway, she, she's been, she's been trying and she found she, she went up, I'm not getting any answers. So she went and did her own testing through an online company and found that she had thyroid antibodies through either an anti viral load antibodies. So there's a there's two thyroid antibodies, thyroid peroxidase, and then anti thyroid globulin antibody. And those two antibodies for pregnancy is one of our pregnancy is our fibroids greatest stress test. And the times that women are at a most susceptible for having thyroid issues is puberty. Pregnancy postnatally. And perimenopause, those women have it good. So what has sort of we don't know whether she had these thyroid antibodies before her first pregnancy? She certainly has one of them now, and the TPO can interfere with your ability to conceive it gets in the way it's an antibody creates inflammation gets and

Stephanie Slater: 1:01:42

her GP wouldn't have checked that. And is shaking.

Miranda: 1:01:47

He did not take it. No, she went and did it herself and bought the results to me yesterday. Yeah, so straight off, it's like, okay, when we're talking about postnatal depression, you can also have postpartum thyroiditis, which looks like postnatal depression. So if you've got an antibody in your blood before, you can see if your chances of postpartum thyroiditis are very, very high. So what can happen is around the three to six month point, you go into a hyper, so an overactive thyroid. Remember, pregnancy is Alfred's greatest stress test, you've already got an antibody sitting there, who knows what your thyroid was doing beforehand, if it wasn't tested. So then you've gone through a pregnancy, bam, three to six months postpartum. You wind up with this postpartum thyroiditis, which is a hyper, initially thyroid goes crazy, do lose weight very rapidly, and you think great, fantastic. I'm losing all my baby fat and women feel fantastic about that. It's palpitations and racing heart and anxiety and, and then, at about the nine month point, you come crashing down. So for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. So initially, your thyroids gone that way. Right. So it swung that way, it's going to come crashing, swings back this way, until we find equilibrium, or homeostasis. That's what our body is always trying to do. It's always trying to find homeostasis. So when something happens that extreme one way, it's going to come flying back the other way until it finds that

Will Slater: 1:03:27

middle ground. And what does homeostasis mean? balance, balance,

Miranda: 1:03:31

equilibrium. So everything's come back to normal in English for want of a better word, you know, in your, in your thyroid labs, for example. But this, this is often even not even picked up on thyroid labs because they don't test antibodies. They test TSH, TSH is fine. This is fine. It's like TSH tests your brains regulation your brains communication with your thyroid literally stands for thyroid stimulating hormone, it stimulates your thyroid to make its hormones, which are T three and T four. So to do a TSH Test is okay, it's fine. But it's not telling you anything. It's not saying anything, you've got to be looking at T four, you've got to be looking at T three and you've got to be looking at the thyroid antibodies free conception. Because if you have them, then postpartum your risk of postpartum thyroiditis is huge. hyperthyroid initially, and then you come crashing down into hypo. That's when weight gain and that's when the depression comes in. And it can look like postnatal depression.

Stephanie Slater: 1:04:39

And can you test that post like saying me now? Is it is it worth looking so in that or is it like not?

Miranda: 1:04:46

Well? Yes, I would say so. Because we can go oh, it's MTHFR potentially or it can be many other things you know, association not necessarily causation as you pointed out. It is worth testing because As if you have a thyroid antibody, and it has not been addressed, your chances of it still being high, are high. A lot of endocrinologist who say, no point in testing thyroid antibodies again, once you've got them, you've got them for life that you can't move them saying, I'm sorry, but I changed them every day. Wow. Like, I'm able to do that. And one of the key things with that there's a fantastic naturopathic doctor in the states and she thinks dairy is the worst culprit with like, as a driver, not as a cause, but as a driver for those thyroid antibodies. So once you've got the thyroid antibody, she says dairy. I kind of go yep, dairy is my second. Gluten is my first. And and it's basically because if you have thyroid antibodies, you must stop gluten. All have it forever. No, forever, not forever. While you've got the thyroid antibodies answered,

Stephanie Slater: 1:06:00

and you can get rid of the antibodies. You're saying yes. Around to get Yes. Wow.

Will Slater: 1:06:05

How do you get rid of them? Is it just by it was so

Miranda: 1:06:07

good. So gluten becomes the driver? Right? It's it's usually not the cause. So you've got to find the cause. What was the cause? Was it just pregnancy? Was that the cause in this situation? Okay. Well, if it was, and if it was just about pregnancy, then why isn't every single woman winding up with foreign antibodies? So there's got to be something else why this woman wound up with thyroid antibodies in her pregnancy in this way? Because not every woman does, right? So it's got to be something specific to her. So you sort of trace it back and go, Well, when did they start? We don't know. Nothing was ever test has never been tested before. We've just found it now. So that's where it becomes complex to go. What was the root cause? So there's things like viruses can do it. EBV or CMV. So Epstein Barr Virus or cytomegalovirus. They're both the viruses associated with glandular fever. And often they'll say, Yes, I had glandular fever when I was in Year 11, year 12, which is the common time chronic fatigue, glandular fever, or they'll say, No, I've never had it nuts. Have you been tested? I don't know. As the other theme, people don't know what's been tested, you got to ask, has these been tested? Do we know if I've had it but people don't know to ask. So then we can go Alright, well, let's see if you've had CMV if that's your root cause or can be, you know, the other more recent virus

Unknown: 1:07:28

that we're all exposed to for the last three years? Yeah,

Miranda: 1:07:32

that one, it can be the vaccinations it can be lots of moving parts that can do it and I'm not just saying that the only causes there's lots of different causes. But what is important is antibodies mean that the immune system is dysregulated. Right? So you've got to figure out well what's causing the dysregulation in this person's immune system at this point in time and gut health becomes really important now that's where our immune system is built. And vitamin D Yeah, most of Australia is vitamin D deficient where the sunshine country in weird vitamin D deficient How is that even possible? Well we slip slip slop to the extreme in slip slip slop and now something else shade

Unknown: 1:08:15

shade or Zaidan sunny I feel like I've seen Yeah, yeah.

Miranda: 1:08:21

I shade and slip slop slap

Stephanie Slater: 1:08:25

on other too, because I know that image of like, I think is that a bird of any book fan glasses on it's under a tree? Yeah, got the heart and

Unknown: 1:08:31

the certain suits and sunglasses in? Yeah, and then the CHE swaps let

Miranda: 1:08:36

Sonny's in shade babies Yeah,

Unknown: 1:08:37

sorry. Anyway,

Will Slater: 1:08:40

there's a fascinating social psychologist in the US who looks into a lot of kids and their development especially in light of social media. I'm not going to go from a total tangent but just it's interesting he made a point that we have over protected our kids in the real world and under protected them online. And then it's so true especially with what you're saying we don't let them walk out on their own we don't let them play in the park on their own they're gonna slip slop slap and friggin Hatton sit under the shade and oh this over protection of the real world and in the environment yet online they can do whatever they want and be exposed to whatever they want. All

Miranda: 1:09:11

we'll feed them sheared and all that

Unknown: 1:09:15

will feed them garbage and expose

Miranda: 1:09:17

leaks for breakfast. Yeah. So we over protect them in again, it comes back to Will you be healthy for them? You know, comes back to that is gluten free WeetBix okay.

Stephanie Slater: 1:09:32

Do you know what I put my here confession is coming. Only Syria we haven't house it's WeetBix they get rice bowls or childcare? You know, whatever. The WeetBix and I add the chia seeds and I add ground flaxseed and I try and like out the nutrients at it. And then I bought gluten free cuz I thought okay, that's gonna be better because at least I'm taking but they hated the gluten free they never ate it. Yeah. And I'm just like, I'm adding all these other things surely, and I get out of the other things that make it better right even is a fortified and

Unknown: 1:10:01

I have and so that's homocysteine fortified. Yeah, I know.

Miranda: 1:10:07

I only get and then but also it's sugar right carbohydrates break down when we when we digest carbohydrates and we break them down we break them down to simple sugars monosaccharides are so so the final little molecule is either a disaccharide which is two sugar molecules two sugars together or a monosaccharide. And that is how we absorb carbohydrates as sugar. Yep.

Stephanie Slater: 1:10:33

Unless you do it elicits a complex carbohydrate, which obviously is complex carbohydrates to break down to sugar

Miranda: 1:10:38

are better for you to utilise. That's right they do it in a different way as there's the fibre and there's all the other phyto nutrients and phyto elements that are within that food that make the passage of that sugar into the bloodstream and more regulated out and stable and stable process. Yeah,

Stephanie Slater: 1:10:57

I mean we're doing smoothies in the mornings at the moment so the kids are able to

Unknown: 1:11:01

do on I know my take on soothing

Stephanie Slater: 1:11:10

high fruit sugar was

Unknown: 1:11:11

a sigh You bowls smoothies soul.

Miranda: 1:11:16

A probably and raw food are probably too much or foot are probably my greatest issues now because it's cold. It's cold. Yeah, from a Chinese medicine perspective. So as a acupuncturist as well, we need digestive fire, we talk about digestive fire, that's how you break things down. So from a digestive perspective, we need this fire. And we also need to masticate I said messed Yeah.

Stephanie Slater: 1:11:45

you to clarify. i Sorry, you're fired. Actually, I love that word. I know why. I just think it's a real like, you really gotta get your mouth around. masticate but it's not masturbate. Well, you so grow up I

Unknown: 1:12:04

was laughing at you.

Miranda: 1:12:07

Yeah, then you know, you. We we need the digestive enzymes to be ready to start to break down the food and domestication is part of that process. But we don't chew a smoothing you just drink so it's this being cold bolus of artists that goes off into the digestive system and slightly just pouring water on your digestive fire pretty much. And so then people wonder why they have stomach pains or don't feel good. Or, or. And then. Yeah, and then there's the sugar. You know, they've probably got a banana in there and berries in there and a sigh in there. It's like okay, so you've had Jim how

Stephanie Slater: 1:12:47

many fruits have you had more fruit? You three servings at breakfast at breakfast in?

Miranda: 1:12:52

Yeah. And then without chewing so people who do have smoothies I will say to them to do which makes me feel a bit sick. Because like I can just milk

Unknown: 1:13:09

I'm glad we're recording this trick little outtake Oh, warm it up. Right. So

Miranda: 1:13:17

put Tumeric ginger, cinnamon, nuts and seeds are warming. So flaxseed is beautiful.

Stephanie Slater: 1:13:23

I used to always put cinnamon. That's right. Because I think and in Georgia, our Chinese doctor told me about it because she was upset that I used to drink smoothies as well. I'm like, Listen, I'm having something just be grateful. I'm eating. Exactly. Yes. So sometimes, and I think not to to counter anything you've said because obviously that's correct. And but I could feel like my mom guilt kicking in because I'm like shit, I do a bizarre shit smoothie either. But sometimes it is just and we talked about this earlier. Do what you have to do to survive. Absolutely. And get your food in and it's better than not eating or Coco Pops. That's right.

Miranda: 1:13:55

That's yeah. So and it does with with a busy mom that sleep deprived, it's really important that we were supporting her to get in what she can to her diet. Yeah. And again, education comes back to that it comes back to education, you know, making sure they know what am I? What am I supposed to be doing? They don't know. No, because they're not sitting there not talk to you. They're not seeing a house like a naturopath or a nutritionist or health care provider that that sort of follows these processes and they don't know. Yeah. And they're getting their information from probably from some influenza to go into online. Yeah, that's talking about some you know, the latest supplement. That's your fertility nirvana. And

Unknown: 1:14:47

it's like, Ah, yes. Yeah.

Miranda: 1:14:49

The promise of goji berries to save your life. It's like, Oh, really? Come on. Yeah, that's my head.

Will Slater: 1:14:57

That's mad. That's I mean, you were sorted. Right? referencing it before, but there was a McKinsey report that came out just recently about top five health trends. And one of them was a move away from this sort of organic woowoo kind of world to more clinical, you know, science backed evidence backed products, which, you know, is exactly what you're saying. It's that there's that balance there. But things need to have that scientific evidence to demonstrate the efficacy. Yeah,

Miranda: 1:15:30

it's an even that is always yes, absolutely. There needs to be that scientific evidence. I agree with that. But the batteries in our industry, there's not the money. So people will say to me, well, has this specific product been tested for efficacy in what you're giving it to me for? And as I will know, the individual nutrients or the individual ingredients have been, but there's not enough money in our industry to go, well, let's just test every single that's an error. Yeah, and you could? Absolutely, and a lot of companies, or a lot of researchers will shy away from doing research on nutrition, because you can't patent a natural product. So why would you do research on it if you can't paint into it, and make your money? And

Stephanie Slater: 1:16:28

what's so interesting is when we started looking into the whole MTHFR, Gene, and folic acid and deterra. And we went on to elevate site, because they claim they say folate, it's all over their website. And when you go into it says folic acid, and then they talk about folic acid in the same way, you will talk about folate, which obviously it's incorrect. Exactly. And then you go into their research. And if you're not someone with experience in reading academic papers, it all looks like oh, well, there's all this research to support. But when you look at who it's sponsored by, it's all Bayer other big pharma. Because that's where the money is, as he said, but you see research, you see, well, backed by science, academic papers peer reviewed must be great. But it's all the company that makes the product that then gets all the money back to them. That's right. So it's just and what Yeah, and it's always interesting to say, well, is that conflict of interest? Has that been declared? Do people actually know? Well, they would sit there and say, Well, yes, it's declared because here it is. We're not hiding. But people don't for the layman Person. Person doesn't know. Yeah, they will.

Will Slater: 1:17:28

Ions elevate anyway, quickly. Yeah, exactly.

Miranda: 1:17:31

You know, so that's right. And 800 micrograms of folic acid. Yeah, wow. Also very high doses of ideen. And ideen is fantastic, which we need for foetal brain development data data there. But if you have thyroid antibodies ideen makes the more aggressive. So where's the prenatal? For those women who have soured antibodies? And can have the ILO have that higher dose of I do try to take it on a very individual basis with the idea in because we certainly need ID for the baby. Right, but it's got to be dosed quite specifically. And what I like to do is try to work out well, over time, how is this person responding to it? And is it making their thyroid antibodies more aggressive? I do try to take it you would just you've got to be careful, everybody to just be put on a supplement with high dose iodine high dose folic acid, it is not right.

Stephanie Slater: 1:18:29

And so I'm conscious of time, but something like Esquire exists Well, I want to ask is that and why is that what drew you to ask why and what we're doing and well firstly you to

Miranda: 1:18:42

me and I liked and I'm I mean, I adore what you both represent and stand for and and doing this is amazing. And to be creating a bespoke supplement. I'm going to say nutritional medicine because that's the other thing the languaging around it's just a supplements, not just a supplement. It is a nutritional medicine. It is changing biochemistry, it is a medicine supplement gives its that's what sort of where we were going before

Unknown: 1:19:10

protein and creatine and it's like the orbit of collagen

Miranda: 1:19:14

or yeah, not what we're doing. It's it's so much more than that. And for it to be quite specifically designed is amazing. It's amazing. It's an amazing thing. We can help have it properly compounded for that person. Yeah.

Unknown: 1:19:32

What more could you ask for? Yeah, I get that most of the time

Miranda: 1:19:36

supplements don't work a because there's some shit supplement from some chip company or, and they're not a Nutritionals. They're not exactly what it should be. They've got old formulations, they've got B vitamins that aren't active. You know, there's really popular retail products out there that have been around forever. and their formulations. outdated? Doesn't mean they won't do something, they probably will do something, but they don't be doing what you think they're doing. Yeah. Yeah.

Will Slater: 1:20:14

If you can just wrap up in a moment, but if you had a megaphone, and you could get to all the women out there all the mums out there, because I know that, and I'll ramble a little bit. So you have time to think that. But I mean, like Stephanie said before the lack of education or information that she had at that time, that would have allowed her to make a different decision, had she have known better, and it's not on her to know better, because how is she if she's not an expert in the field, it's about education and information and, you know, communication that we can share with people so that they can make better and more informed decisions. Is it something that you see that's either consistent common theme or a common misunderstanding that women especially going through that fertility, and pregnancy and postpartum space, aren't aware of that if they knew could could, you know, make a difference to how they're feeling and how their what that experience of motherhood is like for them, because it's, it's challenging, obviously, raising a child, but it seems to me just as a male husband on the outside looking in that it's more challenging than it needs to be. And for that process to be made just that little bit easier for women would be advantageous? Clearly, is there anything that you that you see, or think of that? You think, Geez, I just love if people could know this, or could do this test?

Miranda: 1:21:39

Don't guess? That's because I think, for you, Stephen, had had it been tested, you might not have been in that position, had it been properly tested. I think I think that's really important. And I think if you are really, if you are then taking supplements, then they need to be prescribed for. Again, you know, I had a patient the other day, she is on a whole lot of stuff that she's read here and read there and should be on this and should be on that. And I looked at it all meant, pretty much throw all of it in the bin as a couple that we could keep but the rest of it. So she said to me, so, you know, have I been doing design stuff that you've been doing the wrong thing? Not at all, it's just that there's much, much better for you and don't waste your money on stuff that's promising something that's can't deliver. And then if you test then you know what somebody needs? Because what your bloods are doing, again, it's biochemistry, your bloods are out of whack because something biochemical is not right, generally speaking. So what fixes by chemistry are funnily nutrients, the thing that you need to survive? I remember a doctor said one at this is years and years and years ago, when I first started pregnant, I was actually repping at the time. And I went to see this GP as part of my repping rounds. And he said to me, I don't believe in nutrients. Well, human aid. Should What do you mean? What do you eat? What do we need? A Flat Earther as well? Usually one of the Sabre and dragons, dinosaurs. Just I don't know, I just as I remember seeing the going.

Stephanie Slater: 1:23:40

I didn't even have a conversation, right? Yeah. What's so crazy that just doesn't need a response. It's like, okay, okay. You're someone that can't be

Unknown: 1:23:48

mad at you. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. All people, all walks of life exists, don't they have different belief systems and things? But do I think that's great. That's,

Stephanie Slater: 1:23:58

I felt we could just say,

Will Slater: 1:23:59

I think we could and I certainly don't think that this will be the last time we jump in together, Miranda, because you just You're such a wealth of knowledge. And I think it's, it's really valuable for people to try to understand it. And I think, you know, obviously, we've talked about some concepts and topics that the language people might not understand the scientific language, but they will understand the impact that it can have, if they look a bit further or understand a bit deeper, or some of the analogies you've given. I think it just so powerful for people to take that really simple idea and be able to do something with it. And the thing that I love probably the most is that a lot of the things that you're talking about are things that people can go and change today. It's not like they've got to go through this massive process or spend 1000s of dollars to make some of these changes there. They can be really simple changes that can have such a big impact, which is why I love that outcomes razor the simplest answer is usually the right one and that's what you share. So yeah, thank you for all your wisdom and knowledge and sharing with our audience and We'll do this again.

Stephanie Slater: 1:25:01

And you'll be seeing a lot more of arounder on our socials to get started. We're so blessed. So, so, so blessed. So thank you so much. All right, leave it there. Thank you for listening all the way to the end of the b&b corner brought to you by ASCII as a way for us to say thank you. We are offering the first 50 months of free consult and your first month's product free. All you need to do is visit escalade.co. Schedule a consult with one of our practitioners and enter the promo code BB consult. Take your first step towards personalised wellness with Escalade today.